I did this comparison a few years ago. At the time I had a 3 year old '65 DRRI that I liked, but wasn't blown away by. It just didn't sound right to my ears. I wanted to know if a real vintage one, or a boutique one might sound "right". My local shop here in Los Angeles had three of those "special edition" reissues, with different speakers, a '68 reissue, a Tonemaster and a Milkman Creamer Combo. I played them all for hours in that shop (those guys are super cool!) and really never found what I was looking for. Then a vintage shop over in Burbank let me know they had TWO vintage Deluxe Reverbs, a 1966 and a 1967. I took my '65 reissue and headed down there to play them and compare. It was no contest. The vintage Deluxes were incredible and had the tone I felt was missing from all of the reissues. I traded in my '65 Reissue and am the very happy owner of the 1967 black panel Deluxe!
WOW! Congratulations, Wes. As well as enjoying that amp now, you are now responsible for preserving that piece of history amp for your son/daughter and grandkids. I am very envious :)
Yes, it would have been great to have a real '64 in the workshop. You can't plan these things. Of course this week I have two original '64 Deluxes belonging to an Aussie music legend (who will go unnamed). I am making a video of the repair of one of them...after I finish two Victories, a 100w Bassman and a Blues Deluxe. Phew!
Great review Chris. Clark amps are extremely well made and do sound amazing. They seem to excel and hold together all those beautiful blooming tones the louder you turn them up.
You’ve hit the nail on head, Mark. there is something about the sound of the clark that has just stayed with me. It’s as close to perfect as can be. The reissue was like a brash teenager compared to the depth of the Clark. The tone master is perfect for a gigging musician.
Nice comparison, I love the fact you recorded the tracks once and used the looper. I have the same reaction to guitar tube amps as I do HiFi audio... tubes have their place. Both the 65 RI and boutique amps blew the ToneMaster away in this example, but as you noted I doubt you can tell a difference when playing a concert. All it takes is one successful guitarist to gig with a ToneMaster and future success will be a foregone conclusion. This made me think about an old Eiko ST-70 I had. Classical, jazz and blues were simply phenomenal through it. Then I thought "Hey, how about some Aerosmith". I never heard Aerosmith sound so bad! Boston? Aweful. Pink Floyd? That worked.
Thanks for this, I do a one-man recording studio channel, and I'm looking around for an amp that will give me a great recorded tone. I'm currently using a Boss Katana Artist MKII, and it sounds good but not phenomenal. I like the new 68 Custom Vibro Champ, but it's a bit too colored. I like the new Super Reverb Tonemaster, but it's a bit 2-dimensional. I briefly had a Fargen Blackbird 30 with one of the power tubes removed, and it did such a blooming, chimey blackface tone that I've never been able to get it out of my head. You can hear it in some of my earlier videos back when I was just freshly learning to record and mix, such as Crack the Sky (Breakaway) and Kashmir, and (despite the bad, overcompressed, badly EQ'ed mixing lol) I've never been able to approach that amazing tone ever since. I think you may have just convinced me to spring for a handwired Deluxe!
If you are using it for recording, you can’t go wrong with a hand wired amp with a 12”. A deluxe would be very versatile for your needs. The Super TM would be great for a regular gigging purpose. Good luck. Let me know what you end up with.
I have a Marshall 18w hand wired which I plan to “improve” to get more clean headroom without losing that Bluesbreaker tone. I think it will be right up your alley. Stay tuned.
Excellent video... I really enjoyed the comparisons and even though it is harder to discern differences when listening on a computer, there was still a very palpable change, so I can imagine how it would sound if in proximity to the amps. I bought a small hand built combo amp about nine 9 years ago and the wiring looks like a printed schematic done in color as everything is laid out so perfectly. I was truly amazed how immaculate it was all laid out. I did want to mention also, because you had alluded about cathode bias early in the video, this hand built amp I bought is cathode bias. I was told by the builder that I can swap out the two 6L6s for 6V6s without any bias adjustment (which he said will reduce the wattage to about 20 watts). The only instruction (if doing the swap) is to change the speaker ohm selector switch from the current 8 ohm setting to next lower setting (which is a 4 ohm setting in this case). This instruction is actually printed on the rear panel plate of the amp. I actually ordered some 6V6s this week and expect them on Weds. I can keep you posted if you wish...I am sure the builder (Keith) gave me accurate info about the swap being OK as it would not behoove him to steer me wrong and have me fry my new 6V6 power tubes! (I hope...lol). All the best Chris. Great video as always. Phil NYC Area
What a great project, Phil. I am sure the builder knows his amps, and if he says you can do it, then I would believe him. Keep in mind that a 6L6 can take a maximum plate voltage of around 500v but only 350 for a 6V6. To be safe, measure the cathode (pin 8 ), not ground, to plate voltage (pin 3). If it's over 350vdc, it may not last as long as you would like. I’d suggest you check with the builder if he has biased to Class A (95-100% dissipation) or Class AB (60-70%). You may need to adjust your cathode resistor to suit. Personally, I would check the bias to be safe. You’re not changing to another brand of tubes but a whole different type. I think I described how to check Cathode bias in my Vox AC10 video. Do it, even as a learning exercise, Phil. It may also save your tubes. Cool project. Let me know how you get on.
@@theguitaramptech I will contact Keith, the builder from Red Plate amps tomorrow and forward your question you conveyed to me. I will need to watch your video on how I do the check, as I have never done this before and need to watch how you do it. I will look for the video. Is it a fairly recent video? I'll give a check now...Thanks. Phil Update: I found the video. I am up to the part with you explaining on the schematic... Update #2: I heard you mention Mercury Magnetic transformers on the Bias video...I have a bright RED one made by them in this hand built amp. (It looks cool too).
@@theguitaramptech Thank you, Sir! I am also a fan of the different contemporary DR amps, as they all sound great (!) and some of them are way easier on the back! 🙂 But mine stays happily rooted to my floor! 🙂 These amps, by-the-way, are (in my humble opinion) the most articulate of all Fender amps!
I've got the blonde 65 DRR, been really happy with it. It breaks up beautifully which I'm not used to with Fender amps (except black face Bassman AB165). Its the specail edition too so keeper
Yes, I know that model very well. I have one in the waiting room right now. Its a beautiful amp. Congratulations. I agree. Its a keeper. The only thing I can suggest, El Wrongo is that you change out those El Cheapo filter caps before they let you down, and make sure the bias is sane. Thanks for sharing.
A lot of the trick behind a DRRI is learning how to shape your sound with pedals. You can easily get that next level-up boutique sound with about $200 worth of the right pedals compared to another $700+ for a boutique equivalent that likely won't be loud enough to gig with. The key is recapping DRRIs early to avoid lengthy and expensive cascading issues from not dealing with the cheap upgrade that only requires the span of a single saturday afternoon.
That’s a good point, plan 9. The only catch is you can’t get a pedal to clean up an amp that breaks up too soon. I agree that if you want different colors of dirt, there is a plethora of pedal options.
When the beef is eaten alone, in your bedroom or studio, all the flavors come alive. When it’s in a stew, a live band, it just does not matter which one you use.
Yes! I’m here to serve! For over forty years I avoided Fender amps so as to not be “like everyone else.” Kind of like avoiding Apple products. After buying a Gries 5 Champ Blackface tube clone, I realized how I’d been cheating myself of the tone in my head. Close but never there. The TM Deluxe is my perfect amp. You are right, it’s not the perfect Deluxe tone but I play out and the tube deluxe is just too heavy for me. A mic on my Gries or ‘57 Champ gives me the recorded tone I want making me smile! Thank you!
You can feel the tubes though and that ain’t no voodoo. That raw power, there’s nothing like it. Those Obertones, that coloration. Especially when everyone drops out around you and it’s just you and the amp. Becoming one glorious sound wave
Great review Chris. One big factor for me is that tube amps arent superceded in the same way as digital. With digital every few years therell be a better one and selling your old modelling amp from 5 years ago could be a problem.
Very true. I'm working on a 1968 Deluxe Reverb right now. It will still be serviceable in 40 years time whereas all the Tonemasters will be on a junkpile (except for the excellent cabinet and speaker)
Well done sir! To my ears, the Clark hand wired amp was a pleasure to listen to - clear and musical. The Tonemaster was the next best to me, beautiful full sound. The Blonde DRRI was screeching awful! I had to turn the volume down on my headset. Just terrible sounding to my ears. Harsh, ice picky, ultra trebly in an ear bleeding way. Egad! Just goes to show you how subjective "tone" can be!
Well said, Paul. I love that we all have differing views on taste. I ranked the DRRI as 2nd and the TM as 3rd...but I bought a TM!! It suits being my workshop amp perfectly.
I agree. I’m listening with high end Bose over ear headset so I think it should be pretty accurate but I’m not in the room. 1 Handwired, 2TM, 3 DRRI. With cost and convenience in mind I imagine many would choose the TM.
Great video. I was looking for a video that compared the Fender 65 DRRI to the new hand wired Fender 64 DR . Couldn’t find that particular comparison but this was really interesting. I have a 65 DRRI myself. I keep the treble on 3-4 as it’s quite ice picky above that. 9 would make my ears bleed! Would love a hardwired DR one day
sound like youre playing a maple board strat...handwired is overrated it's the parts that matter. 1.a vintage mullard i63 at v2 will soften the highs and add low mids to the vibrato channel. it worked for me even on a blues jr which is much brighter than your amp. 2.a celestion creamback m 65 will tame the brightness as well. for a total of 300$ your amp will beat the stock handwired version
Very helpful for my upcoming amp purchase (there are many candidates). I presume the situation would be similar w respect to a Princeton. Would love to hear your thoughts on Princeton vs Deluxe Reverb (a common choice for people in my position).
Yes, it is a common choice. Remembering that both are 2x6V6 amps, how did Fender differentiate these 2 amps back in the 60s? The Princeton has a 10" speaker compared to the Deluxe 12". This is the major issue. Next were the smaller transformers. Thirdly, it was the power supply design. I have a 1968 Princeton. I put the original baffle and speaker away in a safe place. Then I made a new 12" baffle, covered it with Fender grill cloth and put in a Celestion Blue. It now sounds awesome.
@@theguitaramptech Good to know. I don't know about power supply or transformer size but I see on Sweetwater that Fender currently makes a 12" speaker '65 Princeton Reverb. I hope to do a lot of side-by-side in-person comparisons before my next purchase.
Please do, David. I have worked on the Stapleton Princeton and the 12" is excellent in that. I did not know the reissue's now have a 12". Definitely get the 12"> Even if the speaker is not great, its a very easy upgrade to a sensational speaker. If you're in the USA, I would highly recommend Weber speakers. Tell CJ Sutton at Weber that I sent you.
I like the new tone master fender twin reverb. Much better than the old tube version. Because they’re more reliable that’s the reason I bought one. Not to mention the light weight of the fender twin.👍
I agree Paul. The lightweight of the TM Twin is amazing. At a gig, it would be hard to pick from a "real" one. Yes, there are no tubes or capacitors to replace. That's a plus. You can't tailor the sound. That's a minus. From memory, it has 3 non-serviceable circuit boards which are only available from Fender. I shudder to think how many of the TM series will be dumped the day after Fender stops support. But meanwhile, enjoy the weight, the flexible output levels and the IR out.
@@theguitaramptech bah. Fender is all-in with this platform. They just released the Super Reverb Tonemaster, and I'm sure more will follow, so it would be absolutely foolish of them to drop support of the first releases. Also, it's not like the vast majority of tube amps (and very high-end ones at that) are using PCB construction. Those boards, as in the the Fender RIs, are production-grade PCBs, so in most cases (the vast majority - per all sorts of techs I've talked to here in Austin, and articles I've read) are so difficult to repair, that they almost always simply order a new board. Now, the PCB in my USA, hand assembled PRS "30" amp, I have to believe falls into the 'repairable' PCB category. BTW, if the Tonemaster you tested did not have the latest firmware update, then you're not hearing it at it's best, at least until another update possibly comes along. I've got all sorts of amps (most are tube), and my concern for the repairability of my Tonemaster simply doesn't concern me. There's absolutely no question that Fender has a vast quantity of parts for these amps. What's more - For the sake of discussion, let's say they don't, or they stop producing parts (i.e., the processors in them). With all of the Tonemasters on the street, you have to believe that some Chinese company(s) will start making parts for them. Anyway, those are my thoughts on Tonemasters growing old. Lastly - I think they sound fantastic. They're not modeling the RIs, but the originals and I would be extremely surprised if anyone, but 'maybe' a gear nerd with incredible ears, could tell the difference onstage. The audiences most of us play to? Heck, they can't tell a Les Paul from a Strat in terms of tone!
@@PaulSter Wow. Thank you so much for your comments. I appreciate the time you took to write, so I will pay you the respect to answer your comments. Will Fender drop support of the ToneMaster series? Of course, they will. What we don’t know is when. Has Fender dropped support of a 1963 Brownface Concert? (That’s mine). Yes, they have. Fortunately, the technology of a Brownface is so much part of the DNA of music, we no longer need Fender. Not so with the TM, sadly. It is so high-tech that there is nothing we will be able to find at Mouser once Fender cease manufacture and their accountants say “enough with the spares. Encourage those players to buy a new product”. The other thing I don’t like about the TM is “what you hear is what you get”. Unless Fender brings out a “tweak” that I can download via the USB port, the amp is what it is. You can’t try a lower gain tube, or use your favourite NOS tube, or adjust the bias, or balance the Phase Inverter. You’re exactly correct about most manufacturers using PCB. I have no issue with well designed PCBs. The PCBs I have seen in Friedman, Soldano and Matchless are beautiful…and they are all serviceable, unlike the proprietary modelling chip on an SMD board. Sadly, some PCBs are provided by some manufacturers are a disgrace (No names). I have never needed to replace Fender RI PCB yet. All have been repairable so far. Of course, I don’t like having to remove the front PCB to service the pots. I am sure they are very good, but maybe your Austin Techs may be looking at saving on labour costs instead of diagnosing a fault. I upgraded the firmware in the TM I used in the video. You’re right, again. It is much better. The reverb isn’t so “hot” and the top end is not as spikey. I just wish I could tweak the bias and use a 12AY7 in V1. The new Fender (and Vox and Marshall and…) are all run by accountants with the sole purpose of making money. They will cut off their grandmother’s right leg if it would improve their stock value. As I said in my comparison, the TM sound excellent. The IR outs and the weight make them a no-brainer for a gigging and travelling muso. And you are so right about the sound. My partner is sick of hearing how each of my guitars sound different, let alone my amps. Even you or I, could probably not hear the difference between a TM and tube amp at a gig going full tilt. To prove my point about me agreeing with you…I bought a ToneMaster Deluxe! It is perfect for my workshop. It's solid-state but sounds like a great tube amp. I can turn it on and off 20 times a day (and I do). I can forget to turn it off (and I do). I take it to rehearsals because of the weight. But at a gig, I will take my 1963 Concert or my 18w Marshall. I am not a regular gigger. I don’t need to worry about the weight, even though I am sure my Concert is heavier this year. I rarely need to go through a PA … and Tubes sound better to me. I just wish I had your faith in 21st century Fender compared to Leo’s era. Thank you so much for your insightful and thoughtful comments.
@@theguitaramptech thanks. Great reply. Ironically, I just happen to be looking at my 11 yr Fender Mustang 1. The v.1. To your point, Fender no longer supports FUSE. However, for what the amp is, it's the same as when I bought it. It spent most of its life on my boat (about 9 years). It's been through Texas summers and below freezing winter weather, and only skipped a beat once when it was powered-up, but had nothing coming out of the speaker. I was about to toss it. I mean, $100 for a little 20w amp that worked for 9 yrs was fine for me. But at the last minute, I decided to removed the back cover. Alas, the speaker connector popped loose! Voila, working perfectly to this day. Nope, no more software support, but I never used the FUSE software anyway. As viewed as a snapshot in time of its modeling capabilities, it does everything I need it to do and in the same way it did it on day 1. Now if the PCB fried, I'd either toss it, or search the internet to see if anyone happens to have a board lying around. Like someone who gutted the cab and has the parts lying around. I also found a treasure trove of folks who have hundreds, upon hundreds of software patches, along with the software itself. With the Tonemasters, I just feel that given the price point, they're not going to be so quick to abandon their customers, as I'm sure the bean counters will factor in the actuarial data and determine that it would too badly hurt the company to abandon the customers who spent $900-1100 USD on their amps. So, I think we're going to be safe for many years, not out of the kindness of Fender's heart, but because it would be bad for business. :)
Great review, and thanks for the stills of the internals. Any views on the TM build quality and reliability? I did prefer the sound samples from the Blonde reissue, but as a home user with a family, the flexibility of the TM is for me, and I can play it loud on the 3% of time I get to play with my mates.
You've hit the nail on the head, riff. You have described one of the main applications of the TM series. That's how I use mine. It is also extremely practical for an aging (me) musician who looks up at the stairs leading to the gig stage. While the tone is very good, I agree that tone-wise, it's not quite there. When I want to bathe in tonal Nirvana, I will always revert to my drip-edge Bassman or brownface Concert. Build quality of the TM is good for modern production. On par with the Reissue series. My 60-year-old Concert will outlast my 12-month-old ToneMaster. The main shortfall of the TM is the lack of serviceability and mod-ability. Do you want to try a 12AY7 in V1 (like me)? Too bad. No can do. Would you like that bias a bit cooler (like me)? Too bad. No can do. Pretty much all you can do is change the already excellent Jenson (or Celestion) Neodymium speakers We have to accept the TM for what it is, know that they won't be around in 15 years’ time (unlike the hand-wired and reissues). I did. And I am very happy with it.
The Tonemaster is a throwaway appliance. It does one thing, and is very overpriced for what it is. Expect it to last maybe 5 years before it starts having problems. And no one will be able to fix it.
That is the highest possible compliment, Madeline. @Uncle_Doug is the best amp tech coach on RU-vid. I’d love to do a duet with Doug, but he’s in Texas, and I am in Sydney. I know there should be a way to get around that, may be a zoom. ❤️
hey Chris, Could be time for a 2 year revisit. I'm currently looking at the blonde tone master deluxe reverb with the firm ware upgrades and the neo celsestion speaker which according to ASk Zac from Nashville brings it right up into the DR zone and a big improovement on the black tone master DR with the neo jensen. thanks , Adam from Freo.
Thanks for your message, Mrunit. Actually, I put a quite a lot of thought in it. That’s why I used the Les Paul with Firebird pickups. It’s very clean and a good compromise between humbucker and single coil. The first sound had no pedals. I used my looper to give the fairest comparison. I only used one overdrive pedal for the dirty sound. If you feel that overdrive pedal with identical settings influence the sound too much, just ignore that part of the test stick to the clean sounds.
Great video! Just a couple of questions: I assume the TM and DRRi had stock speakers? Did the DRRi have the bright cap on the Vibrato channel, or was it removed? With the treble at 9, and bright cap unmodified, I'm surprised at how balanced the tone was! It was still way too bright for my tastes, but really it wasn't too bad. I'm very impressed! I've owned a DRRi since 2006. It's been a wonderful amp!
Thanks for your email Hollis. I honestly can't recall the Bright Cap, status for that amp. It was a while ago. I always ask the owner if he fines the amp brightness too shrill at lower volumes. Most of the time, owners ask me to leave the cap in. In stock form it is quite Bright ... but I admit to personally liking it that way.
@@garyswift135 Spot on, Gary! I reduce the cathode bypass cap. Not to Marshall 0.68 values, but enough to block some of the muddy low frequencies. I listen around the 1 to 4.7uF area. I must admit, I favour Alnico speakers, but some of my favourites are Ceramic. Its just that so many bad speakers have been made using ceramic magnets that its tainted the ceramic name.
5E3 is definitely a dark sounding amp. The worst thing I find about their clones is that builders just make them exactly as the schematic goes. With higher mains voltages these days, I think some component values need changing to optimise the amp. As for comparing all these amps, this is another great video. I’d dare say that the only anomaly would be that these old amps had such differentiating in values of caps and resistors that every amp would sound slightly different. And of course the brand, type and age of the tubes as well as where the amp is biased and how it’s biased would change the sound too. Cab material, baffle material and size, speaker size, efficiency and how old it is... sooo many variables. Many beers could be consumed over these differences. Comparing these new Tonemaster amps is great, we did the same up here at the shop. We discovered that while the Tonemaster was great, and I’d buy one... we then played the tube amp equivalent immediately after it and there was still a huge a difference not just in tone but in response. On its own the Tonemaster amps will do nicely. Loud, tone, light weight. But right next to the tube amps, they still fall short.
@@whatsstefon I agree with all that you observed, Stefano. One big component which I didn't cover was the speakers used in each. But, I had to go with the main focus of "the sound". It would be fun to explore component changes one day.
@@theguitaramptech absolutely. I fear it’s a rabbit warren of endless components, values, ratings, personal opinion and appeal differences that will never end a discussion.
Great job. I have watched several comparison videos of amps and pedals before but due to You Tube audio I seldom hear differences and if I do they are miniscule. The differences here were very evident to me! I have to say I think I preferred the reverb of the 65 RI to the Hand Wired on your second track. I wonder if that could be due to the tank model or style?
Well spotted, Chris. To me the 65 RI was like a teenager. It was just so excitable and eager to please that everything came on too quick. The hand-wired was like a fine old wine. It gave you more flavors when you asked. I can’t recall if the tanks were different. I expect not. The circuit was probably the same. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the taper of the pot changing too much too soon.
And I like the fact that we have our individual tastes. Even though I prefered the sound of the hand-wired Deluxe, I bought a TM. I use it every day in my workshop.
@@theguitaramptech I've been gigging a twin pretty hard for a year now. Almost every weekend and it's held up perfectly fine. Haven't had any issue with it whatsoever I think it's not as loud as a real twin. Which... Is fine? The reverb is also not as good. But the weight the great line out make it all worth it.
I think the hand wired was a bit too tamed for my taste. The reissue sounded hard & heavy!👍 The tone master?.......nah. I tried the twin version at GC & found I have to put it on 3 & the reissue on 2 just to get reasonable volume.
Good one! Finally an unbiased review of these amps. I really like the sound of the 68 DRRI (silverface), but some are saying there is alot of noise from these amps. Any experience with the 68 DRRI? Can the noise be corrected?
Hi Cam. Yes, the 68 Custom DR is a bit noisier than the 65 DRRI. s to what you can do to improve the noise/buzz is discharging the filter caps and ensure the tube sockets are all clean. Then start pulling preamp tubes starting from V1 until the noise disappears. Then try a new tube in that position. If that doesn't fix it, then it may be a visit to your favourite Tech. Good luck Cam. Let me know how you get on.
the simplest way to end that hiss is to plug a dr z attenuator between the amp and speaker,you take down 2 db and the hiss is history. the attenuator's side effect is reducing highs, ive found out by mistake that it completely eliminates the hiss as well. the source of the hiss is the bad job they did jumpering the 2 channels in the amp so the reverb and tremolo work for both channels and a good tech can rewire the amp and solve it, watch psionic audio youtube videos about this circuit.
@@theguitaramptech tried it and also replaced all 6 preamp tubes with proper nos and the hiss is still there...when i plugged a dr z attenuator and stepped down 2 db the hiss was gone!
@@yaniv-nos-tubes wow. that was an expensive exercise...but I bet it sounds better. Yes, an attenuator will reduce the hiss, because it reduces the volume of everything.
Even with bright switch disabled the tonemaster did not take overdrive pedals well at all. I tried wampler, keeley, ibanez and fender and they all sounded terrible . Too bad because the clean was epic!
I agree to a certain extent. The solid state input will certainly not interact with a pedal as well as a tube would, but I am still very impressed with the TM. I appreciate your comments. Thank you!
@@rcleon1431 The only USA hand-wired Deluxe I have worked on in Australia is the one you can see and hear in this video. Its made by Clark Amplification. Very well built.
just discovered u! greetings from nyc!! Would you recommend the standard delux reverb 65?? Love that fender sound...and are their improvements to be made??? Thanks again!
Gotta say...the Tonemaster sounded top of the heap from where I'm sitting. I listened through my $4000+ KEF hifi system and my studio Focal monitors. The hand wired was good. The 65 reissue sounded like a guitar straight into a desk. Toppy, thin and harsh.
I’m going against the flow here, but I actually preferred the Tone Master, the hand wired was great but not three times the price great. The DRRI sounded harsh..
Excellent Zordak. I like that you voice your differing opinion. I ended up buying a TM as my workshop amp despite preferring the hand wired for sound. The TM is a great amp. It’s biggest downside is that the TM will be totally tied to fender’s support. they don’t have a great record of support in Australia.
Hey there, Hard to discern totally as it's always better to stand in front of the amp like you are, for the 'real' sound. Nice comparison, but Tube amps rock..! ( not that I could ever afford a real one )Thanks for sharing, stay safe..Ed..U.k..😀
Tone Master is the best. It is more easily portable and cuts through just fine. Plus the outs on the back make it a much better gig friendly amp. Also, there are no tubes. It will not cut out on you and it is very much more reliable than the tube amp.
Thank you for your insightful comments, Christopher. I agree the TM is a very gig-friendly amp because of the weight and the IR outs direct to the PA. I partly agree with the reliability issue. Yes, the TM is not as fragile as a tube amp, which is especially susceptible to failure when bumping the amp with hot tubes. On the other side, if I was doing a gig 100miles from Sydney, I am pretty sure I could find an amp tech to fix a tube amp. However, if the ToneMaster failed, I would have to order a new PCB from Fender and wait…and wait. In reality, I would buy another small backup amp at that point. Come to think of it, any pro should tour with a small “get out of jail free” back-up Quilter style amp that can plug into their combo speaker cab, simply to add years to their life!
@@eduardsiger1860 ummm... I have the Blonde Version. It sounds very good! I don't know what puke junk you are listening too? But mine sound really dead on. It also takes Fuzz pedals extremely well! When I say Fuzz! I mean Big Muff pie with Wicker good! No "strange" sound like people say. No what ever made up in their retard "only tube amp"sound can make. It sounds very good. I think you and the rest of the people on here that says stupid crap like this got one that sounds like the bad tube amps they made during the same time. Because AND I QUOTE! "The 65 tube amps never sounded the same. You had your good ones and your bad ones. It just depended on who made them." Mine sounds more like the real tube amp than most I've played. I played 3 blackface tone master deluxe reverb amps and 1 real one. I played 2 Blonde Deluxe Reverb Tone master amps and mine sounds more like the real Deluxe Reverb amps. If I want that swamp drowning Reverbs, I just place a Hammer Tone Fender Reverb pedal on it. It is still cheaper and extremely convincing.
Lawdy, I wish I could remember, Milt. I found the black ones easy enough, but finding cream adapter rings was not easy. Sorry, mate. Those Firebird pickups are Duncan antiquities. I loved the sound of my Firebird, but that guitar is so long I would be knocking it into walls or drummers cymbals. Putting them in my Epiphone Les Paul was perfect. They sound very different to minihumbuckers. I hope you do it, Milt.
@@theguitaramptech I have a Firebird with Lollar Firebird pickups in it and they're glorious. I do not like PAF-style humbuckers and I have humbucker-size p90s in the SG at the moment but they're quite mellow. I've always played Teles and I miss that sparkle. What I'll likely end up doing is putting humbucker-sized Firebird pickups in it. I think there are 3 winders that make them - The Creamery in the UK, Mr Fabulous in Australia, and Magneto Design Labs here in the states. The problem is finding demos online. There are very few
@@theguitaramptech And I love the Firebird body - the neck joins the body in roughly the same place as the SG when you think about it so it's not unwieldy to me...I guess you'd say it's...wieldy?
@@maxpeck4154 hahaha! I had a firebird V that I loved but it was too long for the small stages I played. I’ll have to look up Mr. fabulous here. Thanks for the info.
AG, mate, if you REALLY want a Deluxe for home then you must. In truth, it is way too loud for home use. A small tube amp like a Pro Jr is uber cool. Also, consider the Deluxe Tone Master. That Attenuator feature is very good. I ended up buying a TM for my workshop and most of the time I have it set to 5w.
@@theguitaramptech Thanks, I'd love to hear your opinion. I've just purchased Tone Master Deluxe Reverb Blackface with NEO speaker installed and Blonde version firmware. Gotta admit, watching your review made me question if I as a Sunday player made a good choice. Thanks once again!
@@OfficialRaddeck You have DEFINITELY made a great choice. Sure it won't be around as long as a handwired one but enjoy its benefits until Fender pulls the plug on support. For you, the attenuation feature alone is worth it. Have fun with it.
Fantastic video as always! I've owned/gigged the 65 DRRI and the tonemaster. At gig volumes the tube deluxe still reigns supreme. The tonemaster has some weirdness going on in the high end... spikey and thin trebles (possibly something to do with the Neo speaker?). Also the attack is a bit faster than on the tube version, they need to get that algorithm more saggy! haha. Either way I think the tone master is great for recording and home practice. But if you want the real deal feel at gig volumes they have yet to usurp the tube version.
Thank you for your insightful comments, Jacob. I suspect that Fender may have overcome the loss of that mysterious element called “Shimmer and airiness” by boosting the high frequencies into the area of spikiness. Good observation.
@@theguitaramptech I had a DRRI some years back, and the Jensen speaker was a bit bright on top frequencies, but it settled down after lots of gigs. I now have the Tonemaster version and it sounds so much like the valve version, and at a couple of gigs, it has excelled. I expect the Neo Jensen to soften up in time just like the DRRI Jensen.
@@stevep1941 I suspect you are exactly right about the speaker, Steve. I think the tone master is an excellent choice for gigs with its low weight and the IR out. One downside is that there is no user tweaking possible, unless Fender bring out more firmware options. It is what it is. When I was 20-something I would happily lug my twin reverb up and downstairs. But, now that I’m 60-something, the tone Master weight is very attractive. 😂
Forgot to add the link last comment, a great watch for anyone considering the new T/Master DR Blonde. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qzLU5K9SrX0.html
That's an excellent question Thiago. I should have mentioned that in the video. Some things I need to cut out from the video, but that didn't even get a mention. The DRRI has the stock speaker Fender uses. The Tone Master has a Jensen Neo which surprised me as to how good it sounded. I'll need to get back to the customer to ask about the Clarke. Thank you for reminding me, Thiago.
@@theguitaramptech Thanks. DRRi comes with C12K these days (i hate this speaker cause is too much harsh), but some old Ri's like my 2005 came with Eminence Special Design with cannabis cone (which i love). Whatever... The Clarke sounds much fuller and balanced to my ears, so this is the reason i ask you. When you get the answer about Clarke, please let me know.
@@deadinside0586 I just heard back from the owner. The Clark Beaufort comes with a Patriot Texas Heat by Eminence. A very nice speaker which certainly helped get that tone. Thanks again for the question.
@@theguitaramptech Thank u so much for run after the information. You helped me a lot, cause i have a 2005 DRRi and tried a lot of Celestion speakers but no one fits perfectly (except G12-EVH). Now i'm going with the V-Type for the second time, but still left highs on top end. I think i'll change my search with Eminence spks, starting with my brand new EM12.
AB 763 , AA 1164, AA964. FENDER CIRCUITS! 763denotes 7th month of 63. 1164 denotes tge princeton reverb,, 11 month 64. And the AA964 was a short lived princeton reverb that Leo didn't like. But came back in 68!!
Through my phone the handwired and the tonemaster sounded almost identical aside from the reverb. Verb sounded heavier on the tonemaster. The hiss that the reissues have makes the amp completely unusable to me.
Interesting observations, Erik. In my workshop, the sound differences were quite striking, and were in keeping with the selling price. That being said the TM is still an excellent sounding amp. I would love a hand-wired Deluxe but that's not likely to happen unless I build it. I would be very happy with either the TM or Reissue.
Les Pauls were around before 1969, but (almost) nobody was playing them. The LP era began were the black face era ended and the drip edge began. So, historically, pairing vintage Fender amps with LP'S didn't become the big thing until eons later. Liberals are all about changing history. But thumbs up, 👍 great video.
Thank you. My favourite sound is the first era of LP's (pre '61 ) into a JTM45 (yep, The Beano sound). I own 2 of the second LP era you're referring to, a '70 and a '79. Even though they are heavy Norlin guitars, the sound is perfect for me. Clear and articulate.
Whimpy, your guitar history knowledge is appreciated. Your political ignorant digs, not so much! Probably far more citizen/musician/artists have liberal politics than not. Please leave the global putdowns of large numbers of thoughtful, educated American musicians, at the door & keep your focus on the music & equipment we all can enjoy discussing!
Yes. I thinks its Lyle on the @psionicaudio channel. A certain amount of hiss is the price we pay for that tone, but sometimes it can be excessive. The 68 Custom I had here a couple of months ago was even worse.
Great video, Chris. You know I’m a tube amp junkie, but I fully agree it’s a case of horses for courses. Here’s my experience with Deluxes. Over the past 8 years, I have owned and gigged a 68 DRRI, a 65 DDRI, and a Handwired Custom Shop 64 reissue. Also played through quite a few Tonemaster variations in shops. Quickly on the Tonemasters, my favourite was the TM Twin on the 5 watt setting. TM Deluxe just didn’t do it for me after owning tube ones, but again, horses for courses for different people and different applications. The HW CS 64 was truly the most gorgeous of the 3 RI Deluxes I have owned, the best sounding and definitely best for recording, but just didn’t have the versatility I thought it would have in a gig setting when compared to the others. I think a large part of that was the low efficiency Jensen speaker (about 92 db from memory) and maybe the fact it’s 20watts instead of the 22watts in the 65/68. Overall the 64 broke up surprisingly early in a gig setting. Amazing for blues but not for my 6 piece covers band application. I eventually moved away from the Deluxes because I wanted a fatter overall stage sound with more clean headroom and the option of a properly impedance matched extension cab to give me spread when on bigger stages. The Mesa Fillmore 50 Combo and ext. cab. is brilliant for that application and not much heavier than the Deluxe and has served me well in recent times (Yes, yes, I know your feelings about Mesa serviceability). However, I have just this week had somewhat of a lightbulb moment when I put my recently purchased handwired Princeton Reverb in parallel with my Carr Mercury V, both 6V6 amps. These two high quality small wattage amps (12watts+16watts=28watts) sound huge together and both get into their respective sweet spots with great combined volume, all while maintaining enough clean headroom for songs that require it. Best of all, both amps are light and I will have no more to lug than if I took the Fillmore 50 and it’s extension cab. There’s also the redundancy factor. If one of them goes down, just increase the volume of the other in the FOH mix. Time will tell, but I think I might have just found my perfect, most versatile rig.
Sadly, all amps these days are set up to sell and, ironically, not for playing and reliability. As such, most are biased way too hot. You're right that the speaker efficiency will be more significant than an extra 2w. The easiest improvement you can make is to replace V1 (for Nomal Channel) or V2 (Vibrato) with a 5751 or, my preferred, 12AY7. After that, you need to bias the tubes at around 60% dissipation. Then a more efficient speaker. I like your 2 amp solution, Brent.
I thought the tone master sounded great until I heard the creamy valves of the 65 reissue -- but those volumes are torture for modern ears. So, either a muffler, an OX amp top box or a tonemaster. Or just play something that doest need OD
It's odd ("sad" for us old blokes) how times change. When I was a kid, most of my gigs were with a Twin on 6. In the 90's it was a Super Reverb or Brownface Concert on 5. Today people will tell you to turn down your Deluxe. I am definitely seeing a growth in Princeton amps. It may be time to stock up on Champs for tomorrow.
All subjective, but the DRRI reminds me of why I dislike the reissue. Brittle, harsh, plus having to disassemble the whole front panel to replace a pot makes me twitchy! If money were no object, I’d be onto Dick for his Deluxe, and a Princeton clone as well for when I couldn’t crank the Deluxe up. Practically speaking, I just bought a used Tone Master. The power scaling means that it can replace a couple of tube amps, and it’s almost as easy to transport as a Champ!
Yes, that front panel is an unnecessarily stupid design. To do a basic service now has an additional half-hour added to the task. As far as the harshness of DRRI goes, you do have the ability to modify it to suit one's tastes. Not so with the ToneMaster. You need to be happy with what Fender gives you. Hopefully, Fender will continue to give us Firmware updates. But the TM has many advantages. I like my DR TM a lot. It's only when I put the TM against my '63 Concert or '68 Bassman that I feel the TM wanting in tone. Would you notice it at a gig? Not a chance. Thank you for your insightful comments, Steve.
if you really want the best tone out of any tube deluxe reverb swap the first 2 tubes v1 and v2 to something decent, not modern. my tip is to use good vintage tubes with different tones at each channel my favorite complete tube set for this amp is: v1 mullard i63 for a bassman like tone at the normal channel v2 ge 12ax7wa for the classic american clean tone at the vibrato channel v3 ge 12at7 v4,v5 ge 12ax7wa v6 (pi) high gain brimar 6060/mullard 12at7 power tubes brimar 6v6 gt/ rca 6v6 gt rectifier mullard/brimar about the comment that on live gigs people wouldnt tell a modeler from a real amp...i work on live shows and everybody can tell ,the modelers lack presence and body they sound over compressed like there is a compressor pressed all the time.
Hi Yaniv. I agree with you 100%...almost. The only problem with your recommendation is that it would cost a small fortune to find the beautiful vintage tubes you suggest. For me, I would suggest some nice non-microphonic vintage 12AY7 or 5751 in V1 and V1, then bias the amp correctly.
@@theguitaramptech you have to hear a vintage mullard i63 (used working at around 100$ nos 200$)on this amp trust me . i ambush innocent guitar players with it and they have to play live with it. works great for bright sounding guitars fenders and drive. on the vibrato channel a ge 12ax7wa is easy to get around 150$ nos great for cleans p90 and humbuckers and keeps the tone of the amp. so total 300-400$ i think it's worth it.
@@theguitaramptech EBAY reverb(only tested!) some online stores like fuzz audio or valvesnmore get random batches of good stuff sometimes but we are at the bottom of the barrel get them wherever while you can.
the most annoying thing is Fenxer cant make a fender 5E3 in a standard line not custom shop for everyday musicians, so its no wonder a million other clones appear, Why cant these big companies that built a history on great affordable amps not still offer them. id rather buy a new deluxe than any hotrod rubbish,
That's a good point Kiwicano. The only suggestion I have is that no big manufacturer can afford to hand wire amps anymore. As much as all Techs dislike working on PCB amps (for serviceability) its the only way Fender/Vox/Marshall can make an amp that everyday musicians can afford these days.
@@theguitaramptech even if they made a pcb it would be something . Supros are great amps and on wel laid out pcbs with full size components . There’s only a handful of parts in a 5e3 as you know. , so they could put one out as easy as a hotrod amp . Just seems a wasted chance . A simple old basic 5e3
I agree. The only thing I would add to the standard 5E3 is a switch to select Vintage/Modern to filter out the stupidly low frequencies that give a 5E3 the "farty" sound.
Tone master is BS. If you don’t get the tube version of these amps… you might as well get their traditional solid state versions, especially from late 80s & early 90s. Those amps are superb with real reverb tanks. Those Solid states were ace! Don’t bother with this modeling crap. You can service those solid states as well. Fender did an excellent job with analog solid state amps. Especially the power amp sections were underdamped with the speakers- that’s dang close to a vacuum tube output transformer speaker combo.
Thanks for your comments, Pathfinder. I agree with you…partly. I agree the Fender solid-state amps of the 80s and 90s had excellent cleans. To my ear, nothing like a tube, but fabulous in their own voice. However, I would not endorse buying one today. I repaired a Stage 185 last week. Once serviced, it had those great cleans I love (along with its cheap nasty overdrive), but Fenders use of plastic sockets is just one of the problems I had with that repair. Fender Australia didn’t carry the 9-pin (!!!) ridiculous plastic socket, and I need both inputs replaced (one cracked and the other snapped off). $60 and 4 weeks later I had them in my hand from the USA. To my taste, the Tone Masters sound way better, but that’s only my taste. The TMs will suffer a worse fate than the 80’s solid-state when the Fender accountants finally stop producing spare DSP modelling boards. Until then, enjoy them for what they are. They are not quite as good as the tube versions, but they have so much going for them, I bought one for my workshop amp and one which I can take to rehearsals without even thinking about my ageing back. For a gig, I will only use a tube amp. As always, I appreciate your insightful and well thought out comments.
@@theguitaramptech the dirt is nasty on those amps! But sometimes, for some reason or other you hit with the right guitar, at the right settings, the right compression pedal - and you’re like holy crap that sounds good! That’s why I will be modeling my Princeton chorus to see how the waveform is being manipulated and see if I can tweak it. I have never tried the 185, although my Princeton chorus red knob is from the same era. With the right setup and ease of repair, I favor my analog solid state over these tone masters.
I love your reasoning Doc. In fairness, I was in the room with the actual amps. You were at a disadvantage. You heard it through my mic, mixer, compressor, editing software, compressed video, uploaded to RU-vid, and then coming out of your speakers. It’s amazing that you could hear anything!
Thanks for sharing, Tom. I love that we have individual tastes. I ended up buying the TM for my workshop use, even though I preferred the other 2 tonally. There are many things to like about the TM, despite knowing they will be unrepairable and on roadside clean-ups in under 10 years.
