Recently had a thought that the only reason dehya doesn't work like fuxuan(with some changes to better suit genshin's combat) is because she'd powercreep zhongli🗿
@@AlexVorobyov67You're right and wrong in a way. If she was exactly like Fu Xuan then yes. But they would just remove heal whole team on burst stuff, and reduce the damage mitigation, because Fu Xuan is balanced around being weak to AOE attacks which in Genshin can't happen outside of coop.
Fuxuan is proof that Hoyo intentionally ruined dehya. They could've done the same wirh dehya She could ve been a great alternative to shield sustain characters.
@@AlexVorobyov67just give Dehya 100% interruption to resistance and she would be actually useful Not even Zhongli can provide that if his shield breaks
@@leylintempest1714 Nihility chars always have some sort of aoe dmg (with a single exception - Luka) which is not a case for Topaz or majority of The Hunt chars. Futhermore, Ratio also works around debuffs just like Nihility Acheron and applies them himself (2nd trace and technique). Does this makes him a Hunt/Nihility hybrid? I don't think so. Topaz is basicly The Hunt sub-dps which is why she needs to buff her allies' dmg somehow. It could be a buff but hoyo decides it should be a debuff, that's it
neuvillette being put in erudition is funniest shit. he's like an embodiment of a destruction character. he's tanky af, he decreases his own hp, then heals back up, he's great both at aoe AND st. like that can't be anything but destruction. he's a literal mix of dan heng IL and blade.
I think the biggest thing setting HSR apart from Genshin is that debuffers in genshin are the same as buffers because there's nothing like effect hit rate in Genshin, so debuffs and buffs feel exactly the same.
and also the value of defensive units; you can't dodge in m hsr so you need a good shield or healing, whereas in genshin it's more focus on the offensive
Anemo Traveler: Destruction?? Geo Traveler: Destruction Electro Traveler: Harmony (a very bad one) Dendro Traveler: Erudition (virtually all of his kit are AoE) Hydro Traveler: The Hunt (a very bad one)
I feel like for destruction they always have like a drawback, like they need to take damage or lose HP to do more damage, or take HP from their teamates, or they spend a lot of skill points to do more damage, things like that, so for genshin I think characters like Hutao, Neuvilette, Xiao, Lyney, Beidou and even Childe because of his cooldown shenanigans are fit for tor destruction
I agree with all of them except for Childe, he's the type of unit who thrives in AoE multi-wave scenarios so much so that I personally can't see him as anything other than Erudition, besides you have certain Erudition units who are somewhat sp hungry like Qingque and Jing Yuan
@@_zzeero I'm honestly still debating whether Xiao would be Erudition or Destruction because yes, he does excel in Aoe multi-wave content, so he would be an absolute beast in pure fiction if he were to be taken over to hsr with no changes. But also, he sacrifices HP, which is something that's pretty typical of Destruction carries (Blade, Arlan, Jingliu). Besides, Childe's riptide mechanic and how it had this sort of quadratic scaling is what really sealed him as Erudition in my mind, since his AoE potential is bigger than Xiao's thanks to his riptide, and because of the way it interacts with opponents he gets stronger the more there are. Like don't get me wrong, he still has respectable Single target DMG but I feel like he scales too well with the number of opponents in combat, more so than Xiao, for him to not be Erudition. I hope I'm making sense Lol
I was literally saying this for a while, that the fact dehya kit is pretty much fu xuan's, like the fact that if dehya was in HSR she would be actually good amazes me
Hu Tao not being in destruction is a crime, actually. Xinyan is also probably destruction, as her kit SUPPOSE to be a bruiser shield+damage, she’s just bad at it. And Yae is either erudition or drstruction, her E if translated to HSR gameplay would probably be a bounce with one enemy guarantee hit and then rng bounces. Yanfei is also probably destruction, while she’s primarily ST she does have some small AoE + shield at C4 seems like a destruction thing
Tier lists like this are fine and funny, tier lists of a game you barely played and rating things you've never used or only napkin mathed is a bit questionable
Just realized, Nilou has similar niche with kafka, bloom teams, just like dot teams, aoe and big damage In that case too, Nahida is black swan. Nilou without nahida feels bad, just like my kafka team that still runs good ol sampo Now that I see it too, i remember when everyone was talking about silver wolf being kazuha, i would say kazuha is actually more like ruan mei
Hu Tao is literally a textbook destruction character. Good single target (ca) with decent aoe (burst and you can argue her ca's aoe) damage and hp manipulation. She's good against bosses, but can still perform relatively well in aoe, indicative of destruction characters. Albedo being a preservation character is way too much of a stretch. The main highlight of his kit is his skill, not his em buffs and crystalize shields. That's just an added bonus, the same way Serval has dot while still being erudition or how Yukong can deal damage while still being a harmony character. Gorou being preservation makes so much sense, he's literally Fu Xuan but in Genshin. Still, technically, he's "buffing" your defense, so he can still be considered a harmony character.
@@swisherrrr She does, if you don't build Shimenawa's on her. I've been playing her since her release in 1.3 and she still works in aoe situations, albeit not the best option. Obviously, her aoe isn't as good as Xianling oppa, but that's the point. She's a destruction unit, not erudition.
@@kinganonymous2672 having aoe on your ult isn't anything special in star rail, literally every character besides the hunt units + luka xueyi and silverwolf have aoe or blast ultimates, what matters is the regular attacks
So Eula has no AoE because she can't hit the whole enemy team... yet Ayaka can? Okay. By sole character's kit design Ayaka has no real AoE, Eula's hold E explosion is bigger than Ayaka's E and the burst explosion has bigger AoE than Ayaka and Rosaria burst, without the help of other units she would be unable to clear the room. The real difference is her damage is a single instance instead of a prolonged area of effect. Yae has AoE basic attacks, AoE charge attack that can hit the same enemy more than once with no ICD, a burst that hits 4 times in a AoE, and even the turrets were reverse back to random targeting so that she can hit different enemies, Erudition for sure. Hutao loses HP to increase her damage and heals herself with burst if that is not a destruction character I'm confused of what is supposed to be here, Neuvillette the same... but somehow Althaim is considered Destruction??? 0 kit utility that helps him stay alive, Eula is more destruction than him, since she gains defense when stacking up and infinite poisse, which is more than what Cyno can dream.
Zajef keeps proving he has zero clue how to play Eula. He can't even position himself properly to hit group of enemies with her burst. Sadly his ignorance and lack of skill don't stop his stupid mouth spitting another portion of bullshit and slander against the character.
@@user-rm3itr40rnd I only look after him for an extra evaluation of the characters that are on beta, once they release, if I pull for them, I rather go with what I can gather when playing them. Cause his views on team building, like every other TC is not taking into consideration, my artifacts, my playstyle, and most importantly my fun factor lol, Eula feels more fun to play to me currently than Ayaka (since every enemy now seem to be immune to freeze, even water enemies...) They also tend to assume % of "better" results, but these are calculated when you do everything correctly, this is more precise in games like HSR where no skill expression is allowed, but here you can tell me Neuvillette is the best dps all you want... but without Zhongli he just gets interrupted by a sneeze and is over lol.
Destruction does not have keeping themselves alive as their identity. Case in point: Arlan. And yes, Eula isn't Erudition because unlike Ayaka, she isn't reliant on Freeze (Erudition tends to be reliant on their element so they usually brute force to ignore it)
@@nonamepasserbya6658 Arlan uses health instead of skill points to deal damage, has a passive and Eidolon that heals him if he has certain hp % and increases his resistances to damage and cc, while being rewarded to be at low health and put himself or others in danger. He is a destruction unit through and through. Unlike Himeko that wants to be at top hp always for her crit rate buff, and nothing else in her kit and eidolons rewards being in danger or helps her survivability... just like Alhaitham. Eula is given a defense buff, and it's precisely because she doesn't rely on freezing enemies that, like destruction units, puts herself in danger to push her stacks to the limit and be rewarded. Which is what I feel she positions herself as... but Zajef argument against her erudition status, is that her AoE sucks... but her AoE is better than Ayaka who requires someone to freeze the enemy so her burst doesn't go to the horizon beyond and a cc unit to gather the enemies around for her to actually have an aoe. I fail to see what you mean by "relying" on their "element". Elements in HSR have only purpose to break an enemy and stop their turn or actions, you don't care for elemental synergies among your party (there is no resonance, unless passive like Asta's or lightcone) only enemy's weakness are what you concern yourself when picking elements.
@@MCHR92 To put it this way, unless they have a way to RES shred (which the HSR equivalent would be weakness break like Boothill, you are relying on raw dmg if the enemy is resistant to your element. Eula technically doesn't have that restriction since Claymore does dmg to shield regardless unlike bows and infusion attack/catalyst. Gathering enemies doesn't matter in a theoretical HSR setting so with that out of the way, Ayaka is Erudition. Backloaded ult doesn't mean you are Erudition since Acheron exist For Arlan, I feel like his healing is so miniscule it barely matters and he is only Destruction because he eats away HP like Jingliu. They did him dirty with the nerfs. CC res/Interrupt RES isn't the same even for those in the same path/element so I don't use that as a metric
fun vid, i agreed with most but HuTao is the easiest Destruction ever. no hunt characters consume their own hp for increased damage, and her burst does give aoe.
I actually think there is an argument to be made that Raiden is a harmony Raiden buffs her damage based on teamates bursts, acheron buffs her damage based on other nihility units and debuffs. But raiden actually has more utility in her kit than acheron as she functions both as a buffer and a battery so she would have even more ways to fit in with her path than acheron does They want the mei clones to be unique for their class while still technically fitting with them in a way. So if EI was in star rail, I imagine they would make her a harmony dps that scales her damage based on allies using their ults and their cost just like in genshin. You'd gain special energy like stacks on raiden by having allies use their ults (in genshin you just build a ton of ER but obviously energy regen is a lot less common in star rail so they would give her a unique energy generation system similar to acheron but based on ults used by allies rather than debuffs). And obviously she would help regen allies ults so that she could also get her own ult back faster Erudition would likely be the more safe pick, but erudition is likely also the path acheron would have had if they didn't go with nihility. So I think it's actually fair to say Raiden could have easily been a harmony in star rail
Dehya is in preservation makes sense. cause we have like a better version of her in fu xuan. like she is also a mitigator but Fu Xuan has so much more stuff than mitigation.
The Hunt, you got to give the man some credit to the only TC I know for sure to triple crown Dehya since her debut, just to think she is any better than sacrificing a 4th slot.
how is neuvillette NOT destruction? destruction units also have aoe like neuvillette and the survivability also makes destruction units what they are (and neuvillette DEFINITELY has that)
@@jsw973 BS, he tiered the ENTIRE cast based on kit, and then read a comment saying he'd follow Erudition because he's a NERD (which would be canon to StarRail because it'd be based on PERSONALITY but inconsistent to his list) which is STUPID
i think xingqiu could go 2 ways: a lot of elemental application=hunt with a lot of weakness breaking or harmony in the same way hanya is harmony=a character gets buffed by attacking debuffed enemy, and that can better justify the dmg mitigation being in the kit than nihility
I think the only thing I disagree with is Xingqiu as Nihility. I think he's way too similar to Fu Xuan to not make him preservation, with the DR and small healing. I do think the elemental application discussion is interesting though.
He is Jiaoqiu but Hydro. Remember that Robin does DMG based on your allies atk. He does the same thing + a very small heal like Jiaoqiu. Both their names end with a Qiu lmao
Zajef said that he considers elemental application to be a kind of debuff; bloom is then just a reaction between debuffs. So bountiful cores would be considered a buffed version of bloom, a debuff, making nilou a character that buffs/enables a debuff orientated play style like kafka.
Nilou is the closest thing Genshin has to a nihility character. Just like Kafka, she buffs one generally not widely used interaction/reaction and builds her teams around it. I don't see the argument for any other path
Only note I have is that Nilou is a buff to something specific in the reaction system, like how Ruan Mei buffs break, so I'd put her under harmony, and likely Chevreuse too. I can see Kaveh nihility though.
sucrose is nihility, bcause to prock her buffs, she needs to proc elements for that + she deals lots of not crittable damage in aoe. bennet is like huohuo with his sustain/cleanse and atk buffing +energy funneling capabilities, but u can argue with both of them in the opposite direction too! beidou is a hunt for me with a bit of preservation in it. keqing could be erudition but more like destruction or even nihility with some dendro too. chongyun kinda nihility too for me bc of element manipulation, but i can understand him as a harmony unit too. xq is hunt all the way with a bit of preservation/abundance in it. venti maybe is erudition bc of his burst, but in hsr his cc is similar for me to welts slow and for me he is in the nihility for it. (space for klee). childe is destruction. albedo is kinda nihility cause his big e procs look like big dots that are aoe. ganyu is erudition or hunt or even destruction, she could be in remembrance if it was a path on playable units. yanfei is destruction, cause her aoe is okay and her c4 shield that is common for people to use is kinda preservation, but its more like a way for her to tank the dmg so its more like destruction. kazuha is nihility like sucrose, bc of her reason being in it and he`s nihility bc of cc like venti and welt. ayaka is remembrance, but ok shes erudition. raidens nihilitybility is not only bc of acheron but also bc of hyperbloom procs, she is more like kafka than acheron. (space for aloy). gorou is harmony. no matter what he buffs if its primarily buffing - its harmony. but ok i can see the point of him being a preservation unit. shenhe is more harmony, she buffs a lot. her resistance shred is not a lot compared to her buffs. yae can be seen as in destruction or even nihility. her eee q(burst) eee q(burst) rotation is like danhengs eee q burst eee q. but her mechanincs are singletarget followuppy, so ok - hunt. she has some nihility tho, even more bc of her em on dendro(or even overload). ayato is like ganyu but hes without potentially being a hunt unit, only erudition/destruction cause of his aoe. yelan is primarily hunt like xq bc of followups, her buff is there for being a 5star unit like topaz that has followup buffs(iirc). yukong doesnt have followups and is primarily there for buffing, but yelan is not! kuki is abundance and nihility. heizou is nihility cause of his dmg being reliant on proccing reactions and a bit of cc. collei kinda nihility. i can see nah ida nihilitylity for 50.1% for me but she has some big harmony capabilities, that for me personally, cant be ignored. wanderer has some destruction aoe, but ok - hunt. alhaitham is nihilitysh, he is very reliant on elemental shenanigans but ok - destruction. mika is abundace ok, but his buff is one of the unique ones so hes harmony as well, like in bennets case. MONA IS HARMONY SHE BUFFS. lynette is nihility/destruction. (space for freminet) furina may be a harmony unit, her follow ups cant be ignored tho and those are hunty. navia hunt sure but she also does need geo debuffs to make her dmg bigger so she kinda nihility. chevi is very much nihility i would agreee but she still has her mini heals that means she needs atleast to be an abundance character, its like bennet with the second thing being a nihility buff instead of straight up buff. chiori despite the similarities to albedo is agreebly hunt, cause her followups dont need to be triggered and arent aoe, but even then it can be procced by an e of another character.
How the fuck is Nahida not in Harmony but Sucrose and Kazuha (VV shredders one of the closest things we have to debuffers in this game, with Sucrose serving practically the same role as Pela in a team) are?
Destruction is a weird class because Blade, obvious Destruction, but DHIL? Why is DHIL a destruction and not erudition while Qingque basically as the same kit but 4*? Why is Xueyi a Destruction unit? wtf is Mika? It's hard to say. Definitely feels like a "idk where else to put it" tier.
destruction has 2 typical features. single main target, with small aoe, and mechanics involving the units hp. all characters have the 1st feature, and only some the 2nd, but the 2nd is ONLY for Destruction. Which is why I was surprised by Hutao not being put in dest. QQ does neither of these things, her big hits hit all with evenly spread damage.
You can look at Yea Miko like Arlan, both their E are single target and ult is AOE so she fits more in the destruction path, Rosaria is indeed a Nihility unit she’s so good in freeze teams and not because you don’t care about her C6 means it doesn’t mean anything.
I agree for the most part, with a few exceptions: - Nahida is definetly a Harmony. - Collei would be Nihility because the only real reason you use her is for dendro app. - Lynette would be Nihility (she taunts... and... yeah, not much). - Tankfei is Destruction. - Navia is Destruction (crystallizes --> shields).
@@genshinpact7739 yes, but also at C6 she could be erudition, nihility or destruction. Many characters can change so much with constellations, so i don't count them
Nahida skill feels a lot like a debuff, we can draw the comparison with black swan even, and her elemental app is the most valuable thing she brings to the team. I think Nahida as a Nihility unity is more logical
Erudition = big aoe damage Hunt = big single target damage Destruction = kind of mix between the former two while sometimes manipulating their own HP (or someone else's) for even more damage
in lore: *Aeon - a divine being that governs the universe Erudition = Seeking absolute knowledge of everything that exists in the universe, Nous is their Aeon. A particular group of smart people follows this path, the Genius Society. Hunt = destroys the creation of other Aeons / purifies tainted civilizations, Lan is their Aeon. Currently, Lan is hunting down Yaoshi (Aeon of Abundance). Destruction = Everything that exists in the universe is meant to be destroyed. Nanook is their Aeon. He has personally tasked 7 Lord Ravagers to spread destruction to the universe.
@@BadassHatdog oh that’s actually pretty interesting, thanks. I noticed there are 7 paths like how there are 7 elements. Would i be correct in assuming aeons are like archons?
The only characters I'm 100% sure would be Destruction are Hu Tao, Xiao, Lyney, Wriothesley, Neuvillette, and Gaming. The thing that complicates it is that even in Star Rail Destruction doesn't seem to be fully defined, why are Hook, Xueyi and Misha destruction? Cause they do both single target and AOE?
this made me realise Genshin need more def shredder or units with debuff in their base kit without relying on artifacts. hopefully Clorinde will be one
Thing is, unlike is HSR, debuffing enemies in Genshin functions virtually identically to buffing your team. You could have characters who shred defense which would mean you wouldn’t have to deal as much damage to beat an enemy, but people like big numbers and they can still achieve that by just doing more damage via attack buffs and other things. Mona is like the only character to have a true enemy debuff built into her kit.
@@DG_Toti no she's not, her "debuff" worked as a dmg% buff like Kazuha, or a dmg% goblet does. also that 2nd point doesn't make any sense. debuff is irrelevant cuz people like bigger numbers? bro def shred *GIVES YOU BIGGER NUMBERS* . since when def shred let you beat enemy with *less* damage? it *amplifies* your damage. is your brain even working?
Which is exactly why, Xingqiu has hydro shred and better hydro app, so he fits into the debuff cathegory way better than Yelan who is much more damage focused
Hutao and Lyney on different paths Albedo and Chiori on different paths Albedo being preservation because of funni geo reaction and 125 EM, as if that's better justification than Baizhu's shields making him preservation Xingqiu and Yelan being in different paths Yeah, I've defended many Zaj tier lists before, but this is just wow. To be fair, broken ass characters like Xingqiu, Bennett, or Furina are kinda hard to group, since they do so many things at once.
The Yelan placement annoys me because Yelan's buffind is so insignificantly little i don't even notice it half the time i use her. She fits the Hunt path more because of Topaz's existance. Who IS LITERALLY A HARMONY MADE INTO A HUNT, her entire niche is doing dmg and buffing follow up attacks. Yukong does dmg but is literally centered around buffing, and her only good dmg source is her ULT. While Topaz's is between her skill and follow up. In conclusion: i am too invested into both game's meta and mechanics, but Yelan is literally a character who does dmg and offers little buffing. Which isn't the same as Yukong who does buffing and offers little dmg.
this is the kit function and not actually the belief of what the character would follow with the personality like venti is clearly not erudition but nihility and albedo is not preservation but abundance.
Talks about xinqiu hydro application making him nihility despite healing and DR. Then proceeds to ignore his own standard for raiden and all her electro application on n off field. (Make her harmony she gives energy back!)
@@hydreigon2709 Joke (but true) answer: yes, i had her on full exile for a xiao/faruzan team before xianyun Real answer: It doesn't count bc that's an artifact set and he's taking into account only stuff that comes with their base kit
