@Sam Guevenne but she is only for the sake if balance. 9 major Aedras and 18 major Daedras. I think the rules were that there were twice as many Daedras than Aedras. If there were three more Major Daedras that came out of nowhere then the wheel is imbalanced. Meaning that either another divine deity will rise or Meridia will be divine.
@@Observant213 sometimes shes a female sometimes male. The princes can be either at anytime. Like Mol bal (sorry if I missed spelled that) is the father of vampires and known to be a male most of the time. But there's a book in Skyrim where Mol is a female.
that would be cool and we have the perfect fighting arena the Maelstrom Arena make the princes run the arena and fight each other Fa-Nuit-Hen would love it.
@@sylph4252 Well yes. There is plenty of awesome and interesting lore in TES, but i just find how the dunmer are so philosophically different, and how that affects their culture super interesting.
Y'all are so uneducated, jyggalag is obviously the thiccest daedra. Bih was so thicc all of the other daedra had to seal him/her (idfk daedras are genderless aliens)
STOP! YOU'VE VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE, OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE! LAST I'VE KNOWN, FREELY CROSSING REALMS REQUIRED MANY HUMAN BODY PARTS... JUST WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THE PARTS?!
Boethiah, Prince of DECEIT: "I have some truths to tell ya, my lad." *winks* Prophet Veloth: "...Go on." Why anyone would take anything the Daedric Lord of deceit has to say at face value is beyond me. I think it's actually much more likely that Boethiah just wanted to fuck with the Altmer and splinter them, gaining more worshipers in the process while denying multitudes from the Aedra. Like any good lie he spoke elements of truth, but corrupted segments and left out details to bend events in his favor. It's literally in his nature to mislead, misinform and lie to get what he wants.
The greatest deceivers don't need to lie. You can be reasonably sure that what they say is true. It's what they're NOT telling you that you need to worry about.
wasn't just words she literally shat out Trimmac in front him and his followers course he left out the fact that mephala stab Trimmac in the back during the fight so that Boethia would win
Boethiah isn't JUST simply the Prince of deceit, she also encompasses rebellion, betrayal, and conspiracy... Amongst other things. Thus instigating a rebellion amongst the Chimer against the Altmer and ultimately against the Aedra fits rather well within Her domain. The gaining followers part, not so much as she doesn't really care much for worship. As has been overly emphasized.
i feel the common interpretations of the good daedra are the result of idealistic ideas of morality, whereas someone with a realistic view would quickly recognize how important they are so here are a few questions: is it not good to end or prevent a war, which could cost thousands of lives, by murdering one king? is it not good to take up arms to rise above and dethrone a despot or an incompetent king? is it not good to humble the wicked and provide guidance to the faithful?
Some interesting shrine art of the Dunmer", with the tribunal/saints with their anticipations/good daedra 10:42 Sotha Sil and Azura 11:09 Vivec (all two of him) and Mephala 11:22 Almalexia and Boethiah
Fudgemuppet, you should make a video comparing Ulfric and Vivec, because it is scary how many similarities they have: They are both the de-facto but not official rulers of the province in which their game is based. They both have a rocky relationship with the Empire. They both want what's best for their own race, but less so for the other races, and the Argonions have it especially bad. In the city that they rule from, outsiders have to live in one section. They both wield power derived from Tonal Arcitecture. They both came to power after killing the previous leader, but nobody can agree on the exact details, and whether or not they murdered them. They're both willing to make sacrifices to preserve what power they have: Ulfric will give up Riften in the peace talks in order to kick out the Thalmor, and Vivec gave Tiber Septim the Numidium in order to secure more autonomy for Morrowind.
No. Tonal architecture had nothing to do with the thu'um and neither are the thu'um and the heart of lorkhan related. Different powers. Very different.
Yes the powers are different but they’re source is similar. On a superficial level the names are both sound related, shouting and tonal architecture. What they both allow is for the users to rewrite the laws of nature. When you shout you’re willing something into existence like frost, fire, a storm, clearing the sky, becoming ethereal, making animals not pissed at you etc. all without using your magicka pool. Tonal architecture does the same thing it’s how the dwarves built their complicated metal alloy that no one in modern Tamriel can replicate. The dwarven metal was used to build everything in dwarven society from their weapons of war, buildings, automatons, and all the way down to their pots and pans. And these constructs are still standing in the 4th era with no decay/rust. It’s because tonal architecture allowed them to change the laws of nature and create a super metal.
@@95Bartlett you'd think Dwarven weapons would be better, all things considered. Hell, if it can change the very *laws* of nature, it could do a lot more then just make a superalloy, especially in our world. The speed of causality is a law of nature, and it's the only thing holding light back from going infinitely fast.
@@roadhouse6999 he got it wrong... He meant to say Tonal Magic. tonal architecture is a subset of tonal magic just as Thu'um is a subset of tonal magic. They are both derived from Tonal Magic, but otherwise completely unrelated. We also have sword singing and green singing derived from Tonal Magic.... but hell if I know what any of it means.
The dunmer faith is very similar to ancient Turkic beliefs. Azura for example is straight up a reference for the spirit Umay. Aspect of motherhood and discipline.
While my favorite TES race is the Argonians, I find the Dunmer to be the most interesting TES and easily one of the most interesting Elves in all of fiction. Everything about their society and culture is just fascinating, especially their Faith. Hell, TES: Morrowind was the most creative Bethesda's been in decades now.
I'm glad there's elaboration about "The Good Daedra." Thanks Fudgemuppet. I think there should be a comment about our personal Pantheons for players on what gods they worship from The Elder Scrolls games.
Honestly its inrelevant, Aedra and Daedra dont represent good and evil, they represent order and chaos. Makes you wonder who of the Aedra are actually Lawfully Evil. What if Akatosh was the actual betrayer instead of Lorkhan? A egomaniac that just like his Dragon children stands for domination and control.
They have some mod that makes all the female Daedra and Aedra statues look really... sultry. I frankly can't stand it. Especially super-busty Mara, it looks so out of place.
@@SingingSealRiana well mostly in game she just hates the undead, she's kind of a weird daedra in the fact that she may actually be a magna ge who just influences oblivion rather than a true daedra their sphere according to some sources is life and energy(whatever that means)
So the padomaic theology which then derived into dunmer's reclamation myth centers around similar existential philosophy of Nietzsche, on how those three supposed daedric princes were to represent the act of nobility, of dunmer becoming masters not the slaves (well this can be taken out literally when they're also enslaving argonians XD). But it's a pretty interesting take, and I would see how the Anuic theology represent what Nietzsche have been criticizing the most, of treating existence as mere suffering and imprisonment.
I created an old orc build, but you have to play very carefully because this build as well as that random encounter of the old orc. our character seeks a good death however if we die it is considered permanent death
Elder Scrolls 6 is getting released in 2025. It's based in Hammerfell and High Rock, and its main quest has a lot to do with the Direnni adamantine tower.
That explains why my character in Skyrim... A Dunmer... Always takes any opportunity to do quests for daedras, including Molac Bal, but is always insulting the evil daedra...
Thank you Scott of FudgeMuppet for this interesting view of the Daedra. It is refreshing to see historical & cultural context and discuss the subjectivity of the meaning behind terms “good” or “evil.” There is usually 2 or more sides to any story. I am really unsure what Daedra or Aedra I would personally choose, given all the knowledge I have gained about them over time. Sometimes, I envision some kind of Dark Crystal situation, where 2 halves (good/bad aspects) were torn asunder (perhaps during the time of the Ehlnofey) would, at a prophecies time, rejoin your become 1. That was a cool concept. But it wouldn’t work for this lore construction & the imbalance between the 2 sides.
Phh, don't tell me to keep an open mind without my brain breaking, I've been to the Shivering Isles! And as for your "Good" Daedra the fact is if they were that good how much better must Jyggalag have been?
@@69inetails I think he is. In his own way. Much of the Elder Scrolls is about perspective, and, from the perspective of Stendarr, the Daedra and their worshippers are evil and are thus deserving of justice rather than mercy. He probably would accept Daedric converts with remorse thus displaying his mercy.
If youre so obsesed in your quest of extermination of daedra as evil beings explain why so goddamn many people worship them ,Azura as a standout example....?
@@knightsotl796 Jupiter (Aka Zeus) was kind of an asshole and people worshipped him. Hell, people worship fuckin Satan. It's like saying "why are you against communism if so many people are communists?" Obviously there's an argument to be had there but I doubt that claim is gonna be part of it.
I would say that there are daedra that while considered evil may just be neutral and to some of these daedra the saying what can be given can also be taken away can apply, Peryite is an example of this as one of his worshippers is Kesh the clean who you get Peryite’s quest from
But what about lore adding to ES from mods, would be nice to hear your take on it and how plausible those big mods are in regards to established lore. Mods like Falskaar, Midwood or Maids 2 Deception.
@@dorkydragon5055 a bit? He's just the deadra of all bad things. God of rape etc. Let's not forget he raped a woman to death, just because he was mad at Arkay.
Man, the house of reclamations had some of the greatest artifacts imo. Ebony Mail, Ebony Blade and The Black Star? Badass combination! And that's just what you could get in skyrim 😁
Thank you for more Morrowind lore! This one had bothered me because I don't like doing 2 out of 3 quests for these daedra. Please do more videos about TES III. I love the overhauled game.
Azura cursed the whole dunmer people when three reached transcendence. Vivec even reaches CHIM (the whole point of the psijic endeavor). Perhaps they went about it the wrong way but they are the only three we know of who have actually come close to completing lorkahn’s wish for mortals
My Lovely daedra is Meridia, She didn't ask me to kill/ sacrifice Innocent people like any Daedra instead she ask me to return her beacon and kill a man who stole her beacon for his own purpose. I mean Goddamn I just fell in love with Daedra.
Meridia is definitely up there Along with Azura and Nocturnal And you can make the argument some aren’t evil but acting out nature Peryite for example is the prince of natural order. What he does good or bad isn’t because of his alignment but because it’s nature and has to happen that way
Speaking of the Good Daedra, maybe you could consider a video on the Four Corners of the House of Troubles, FudgeMuppet? At least in Morrowind, the Four Corners are not purely detrimental forces, they serve their purpose of testing the Dunmer people. In the game Morrowind, the Temple quest line even includes a pilgrimage to each of the Four Corners' shrines. Especially Molag Bal has gotten quite the bad press in the recent past, also in your videos. This however seems to neglect the "good" he has done, for example apparently granting CHIM to Vivec, and curing the Nerevarine of vampirism.
I have an interesting question that could help me out a lot if properly explained. Is there ever mention of a mortal creating life with a spell or practice? See, my friends and I are in the midst of an Elder Scrolls D&D Campaign where I play the role of an Argonian Necromancer, Saliish. Saliish is interesting compared to other Necromancers as he doesn't just study Necromancy. Recently he has begged the question of if it were possible to create an entirely new being with a magical practice or spell. He already knows that creating a mindless being is somewhat possible with the use of Necromancy and Flesh magic but he seeks to create a mortal, one who can be seen as just an average individual. The main reason he wishes to accomplish this is so that he can gain a fallowing and rise to a possible higher power. I was simply wondering if such a feat was ever explain in Elder Scrolls and if so, how.
I'm in the boat that the lessons these Daedra offer are good, but as every religion has good lessons to take from. Yet, blind faith will always bring about ruin. Even Boethia warns about that.
Fun fact, that story with Trinimac getting eaten by Boethia also involved Boethia shitting Trinimac out eventually, which some of his followers rubbed said shit on themselves, Trinimac ended up turning into Malacath and his followers became the orcish people
The Psijic Endeavor or the Tri-Angled Truth, perhaps the Tribunal thought they had achieved it, they thought they had surpassed their gods. What does any new god try to achieve in most legends, they try to denounce or even remove from the common mind any aspects of the old gods. Even though the Tribunal were very powerful by mortal standards, it just shows that the true gods of the world still far out shine them if one god was able to plant the seeds for their downfall, through the actions of one blessed "mortal" (should the Nerevarine even be considered mortal? not sure). Just a thought.
The Nerevarine never was the cause of the tribunal's downfall rather than Dagoth Ur surviving the betrayal in the Red Mount. In TES III Azura was seizing an opportunity set for her a long time ago to reassert her own cult in a situation where protagonists deeply understood that the Tribunal was destined to end except maybe Almalexia. The reason why we succeed in TES III is because Azura and Vehk interests coincide for the first time. Vehk wanting to destroy the heart of Lorkhan to stop the propagation of the corprus and kill Dagoth Ur, the Sharmat and Azura wanting to destroy the heart of Lorkhan to be adored again by the Dunmer. But the other nerevarines before us didn't had that chance. Every other attempts of Azura were failures. That said, the Tribunal were not just powerful by mortal standards but even for the daedric princes. Almalexia's fight on the ruins of Mournhold, Baar Dau the ministry of truth, the four-score war or the coldharbour compact are examples among many of how power flows in the relationships between the daedric princes and the Tribunal. Beyond political concerns Vivec and Sotha Sil have probably achieved an understanding of their own world (from Nirn to the Void beyond Oblivion) the daedric princes are unable to achieve because of the fact that the power and wisdom achieved by struggling in Nirn are of a greater value than what is achievable in Aetherius or Oblivion. Vivec knowing about the future appearance of Talos the God centuries before Tiber Septim was born by (maybe) having access to a seemingly out of time "non-spatial space" is an excellent example of how psijic endeavor's path to power differ from the subaltern power of the et'ada (from the gods in aetherius to the eight divines and the daedric princes). Another example of the power achieved through Mundus is the fact that: if the et'ada are certainly immensely powerful in terms of knowledge and magical power, in the case of the Daedric Princes, more than the fact that they don't really outshine the Tribunal, they don't outshine the mortals either. And of all those not all powerful Daedric Princes, from Dwemer scientists exposing her limits to chimer generals surprising her, Azura is not Mephala. Just like the psijics I prefer to assume that the et'ada when they're not in Aetherius are just absurdly overpowered magic-using spirits. ^^
Hircine does too. He mourns the prey but the predator has to eat too. It's brutal but that's just nature and the circle of life. He respects and admires when prey outwits the predator.
So in short, these Daedra are considered good because the methods they use are for the greater good? I like this video, like I do so many more of your work, but I still have trouble seeing these Daedra as good. Does it really come down to differences in moral compasses?
Azura, Meridia, Nocturnal and Sanguine would be the only Daedra that care about their followers and make the world a better place in some ways. Even then they are self absorbed and rather than appreciate mortals obedience they expect it.
Id love to hear you guys opinion on the Vigilant mod! It is so chok filled with lore and characterizations of Aedra and Daedra alike. It would be very interesting to hear your opinions ^.^
Probably if I was in the Elder Scrolls universe, I would give my faith to Azura and i would be open minded with Boethiah, Hircine, Nocturnal and Mephala and with the Aedras in general they are liars but when you see all the picture of the Universe you need them too.
Dagon (forgive me for not spelling his first name) is the only Deadra I consider to be utterly neither good nor evil. To stain him, is to stain change itself, to rage against a hurricane. It's like the Chaos Gods of Warhammer
Meridia is far from good. She is the patron deity of the Ayleids - who many consider the most evil race on Tamriel - she is completely opposed to free will, and even her own champion says that you shouldn't trust her.
@@Xolcm Darien? He's one of the better written parts of ESOs main quests. At first he seems to be a bad cliche but eventually becomes a memorable character and tragic figure.
