@@XOX174 Outside the Spartan-III characters from Ghosts of Onyx and it’s subsequent sequels, the 280+ remaining Spartan-IIIs of Gamma Company after the end of the Human-Covenant War were integrated into the new Spartan Operations branch in January 2553, BUT the Office of Naval Intelligence in July of the same year reassigned all of them to more covert roles/operations. Admiral Parangosky herself deemed their illegal destabilizing augmentations an unacceptable public relations hazard to the newly-formed Spartan branch. All of the Gammas were only around 12-15 years old during that time, some maybe even younger. You can imagine them being around other soldiers with their enhanced aggression and potentially breaking down into a psychotic episode if they don’t take their ‘Smoother’ drugs every 12 hours, targeting allied personnel indiscriminately. That would be a VERY BAD thing to happen for PR, the public would instantly be outraged. I imagine some of the Gammas who could control their emotions and augmentations better than most of their brethren, once they were old enough, could serve alongside the Spartan-IVs, and maybe surviving IIs and IIIs in combat roles. But that wouldn’t happen until the late 2550’s or currently present-day in the Halo timeline which is May 2560. That is if they always make sure to keep a supply of Smoothers with them, but they are relatively easy to make. You can think of it like if you’re diabetic and need to take insulin as a medication every 12 hours, but instead it’s drugs to keep you from going crazy. (Maybe a bad comparison, but I’m not diabetic nor am I a doctor) As for the survivors of Alpha and Beta Company, they were either Mjolnir-equipped fireteams or Headhunters/alone Wolves like Noble Six. Not hard to imagine there are not many of them left, as for the latter two, we have no idea how many Headhunters/Lone Wolves there are since only the highest of ranks within ONI know that information. Some of the Mjolnir-equipped Spartan-IIIs of both previous companies, Hazel-A302 and Owen-B096 respectively, have since joined the Spartan Operations branch after the war and are currently serving. As for Rosenda-A344, formerly Noble 4 of Noble Team before she was reassigned in late 2551, her status is completely unknown. The biggest exception to the other IIIs is Jun-A266, who is the Chief of Staff of Spartan Operations (COSSPAR), the administrative head, operational manager, and head recruiter of Spartan Operations. Fun fact: he is the one who personally recruited both Sarah Palmer and Edward Buck. But TL;DR: The hundreds of Spartan-IIIs of Gamma Company were reassigned/isolated from other personnel to covert roles while surviving Mjolnir-equipped Spartans of Alpha and Beta Company have joined the Spartan Operations branch. As for the Headhunters, they are a complete mystery, and their size is unknown. To quote Halopedia for the Gammas as I finish this extremely long reply: “As of July 6, 2553, ONI had not yet fully decided on the future of most of the surviving Gammas, although they were planned to be assigned to roles that would mitigate the risks of their enhancements.”
@@XOX174Originally I wrote a very long and in-depth reply but I guess RU-vid deleted it. But TL;DR: The 280+ Spartan-IIIs of Gamma Company have been reassigned to covert roles within ONI to mitigate their illegal augmentations that can make them break down into a psychotic episode and target friendlies if they don’t take their ‘Smoother’ drugs that counteract them. The surviving Alpha and Beta Company Mjolnir-equipped Spartan-IIIs (which there were not many, even during the Human-Covenant War, unlike what people who only played Halo Reach mag say, 99% of them did not wear Mjolnir due to its insane cost) have likely joined the Spartan Operations branch like Spartans Hazel-A302 and Owen-B096. One of them is Jun-A266, who is the Chief of Staff of Spartan Operations (COSSPAR), the administrative head, operational manager, and head recruiter of Spartan Operations. Fun fact: He personally sought out and recruited both Sarah Palmer and Edward Buck. As for the Spartan-IIIs of Alpha and Beta Company who were Headhunters/Lone Wolves, we have absolutely zero idea as only the highest of highest ranks in ONI know that information. But the Spartan Operations branch does have a Headhunter program of its own, so that’s something
Spartan II's as individual soldiers are superior. But Spartan IV's require significantly less investment and training, and do not need to have 1-in-a-billion genetic traits. And Spartan IV's have a comparable power level to Spartan IIs. So, despite not being as powerful individually, in terms of the combat effectiveness to cost ratio, The Spartan IV program is miles ahead of the Spartan II program.
Master chief considers the spartan 4s his brothers. Never forget that. He calls them spartans. He recognizes and considers them spartans. Also look how chief mourns the deaths of spartan 4s he finds on zeta halo.
As much shit as 343 rightly deserves, Chief's characterization in Infinite was spot on, it really shows how much he cares for his brothers and sisters in arms regardless of generation or augmentation.
@@nathanfraser8204it’s one of my favorite halo book, it made me respect the IV’s more than any game did. I went in thinking “no way will I like the IV’s” and came out loving them
They still suck. The IV's lose to the Banished. Meanwhile, Red Team, Isabel, and an outdated, retrofitted, former colony ship were all that was needed to beat the Banished at the Ark.
@ronnieortiz6803 yeah, they were beaten by the Banished when the infinity was running on fumes with less than half it's normal crew, when the Banished were waiting at Zeta halo and ambushed them, and when the Banished outnumbered the UNSC on the ground 100 to 1.
I give the edge to the Spartan IIs, their augmentations don't require regular monitoring and maintenance like the Spartan IVs augmentations, not too mention IVs outside of armor are not as powerful as IIs. The IVs get their edge from numbers, they perfectly blend the first 3 generations pros. IVs have numbers and safer augments like the IIIs, the mjolnir like IIs and Cat-II SIIIs, and being adult recruits like the Orions/Spartan Is. But the fact that their augments need to be monitored is a slight liability.
my theory is that their monitoring is only necessesary early on, as their body is slowly augmented and need stabilizing. after that its just spartan optimized health checkups, training and nutrition. like elites athletes
@Chrisspru I hope so lol because the Spartan IVs stranded on Zeta Halo are screwed until UNSC reinforcements show up or they find and retake the Infinity, otherwise their augments might deteriorate.
@camerongooch9606 I watched Installation 00 breakdown of the Spartan IV augmentations and he mentioned that IVs need regular monitoring and maintenance. I assume with SIVs being super soldiers maybe they don't need them too often but alas the fact that they need them puts them at a disadvantage to IIs and IIIs
Spartan 2s are literally the definition of death incarnate to the covenant. In lore noble 6 (a Spartan 3 headhunter) fought off an entire covenant fleet alone on reach for a week straight before he got glassed. Now imagine what a Spartan 2 could do
Yes, Naomi broke a brutes spine in a single uppercut. MC wasn't trying to kill Locke, whereas Locke was trying to kill MC (he reached for his gun). MC swore to never hurt another service member, and all he wanted to do was slow Locke down so he couldn't board the guardian
In the books, Master Chief punches a Banshee across a battlefield. Jerome fought Flood Infection forms with a chair. William boxed a Hunter and took a step forward after being shot by a Fuel Rod Cannon. Jai stood up to a younger Thel 'vadem. Spartan IVs are Space Marines on heavy steroids with a lack of respect for authority. This isn't even an argument. Spartan IIs obviously dominate.
S3's are a better option to put up against 4's. But they're still closer to pure bred S2's than the watered down S4s who were never trained to be super soldiers prior to being selected for the program, nor did they spend most of their lives getting so used to MJOLNIR armor that it was like a second skin. 4s have the augmentations and the training as soldiers, which they excelled at, but not the training to be stronger, faster, tougher, and smarter than normal soldiers from the age of six. They've recieved that training but not to the much greater extent of their predecessor Spartans. They're just not on the same level. Pure and simple.
@@The_Kaiju-X_ProjectS3s we’re designed to be more expendable than S2s. It’s why there’s dozens of dead S3s on line wolf. The majority died on reach if I remember correctly.
@secondheaven9545 for sure the expendable Spartan. However that wasnt a skill or training or augmentation issue as much as it was an age, mission, and gear issue. The S3's were given Spi armor which was not nearly as powerful or protective as MJOLNIR armor. It was dirt cheap by comparison. It had a stealth feature built in but it wasn't perfect camouflage. Then they were sent on what was considered Suicide missions. Missions they didnt even wanna send S2's on because the risk of loss was too great. Usually their entire batch was made and trained together and then all together sent on said Suicide mission. This is straight from the wiki but what I remember from the book. In Ghost of Onyx the first class of Spartans 3's all survived the augmentations and was activated in November of 2536. Their record was at first exemplary, as they saw action at the Insurrection of Mamore, the Battle of New Constantinople, and at the Bonanza Asteroid Belt. Nine months after they were activated, they were massacred in Operation: PROMETHEUS. All of the three-hundred Spartans deployed on the mission were supposedly killed. They were still teenagers. Kurt was able to view their last assignment. Now this I didnt know but always figured, though it wasnt in Ghost of Onyx: An unknown number of Alpha Company's members, deemed to match the criteria used in selecting the SPARTAN-II candidates, were hand-picked by Mendez and Kurt before Operation: PROMETHEUS and extracted from the company. These Spartans were assigned to other units and given equipment on par with the Spartan-IIs, including the Mjolnir Armor, to make them equally efficient on the battlefield. By 2552, four of these Spartans served with Noble Team; Carter-A259, Jun-A266, Emile-A239 and Thom-A293. And I'm assuming Noble 6 as well though they could've been part of the second class SPARTAN-III Beta Company Beta Company was approved right after Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. 418 candidates were conscripted in 2539, but only 300 became Spartans. Kurt-051 was disheartened at the loss of his first Spartans, and trained this group in unit cohesiveness along with a tougher training program. Though they were even better trained than the previous Spartans, they were similarly massacred in Operation: TORPEDO in 2545. From the entire company, only two participants survived the battle. Tom and Lucy. This next part is a spoiler for Ghost of Onyx: SPARTAN-III Gamma Company was trained with the help of the only two Spartan-IIIs from Beta Company who survived Operation: TORPEDO: Tom-B292 and Lucy-B091. Lieutenant Commander Ambrose regarded Gamma Company as "the finest Spartans ever." 330 candidates were selected, on average only six years old, and at the request of Kurt, all 330 were approved. Every one of them survived the augmentation procedures and as Kurt was becoming more and more disgruntled losing the last groups he secretly added to the augmentation process a compound that would make them more vicious in combat and virtually unstoppable if taken near fatal or fatal damage until their adrenaline bottomed out. Gamma Company received deployment orders only a few weeks after the Fall of Reach, and most left Onyx before the Battle of Onyx. Only fifteen SPARTAN-IIIs remained on Onyx as they competed for top honors. Following the Battle of Onyx, seven had been killed in action. Teams Gladius and Katana were not present in the early stages of the battle, leaving only Team Saber. Team Saber was the only SPARTAN-III unit to fight alongside the SPARTAN-II unit Blue Team. With the help of their older, more experienced counterparts, they successfully fought off a Covenant attack along with destroying a Sentinel manufacturing facility. Ultimately, the surviving SPARTAN-IIIs escaped to the Shield World at the core of Onyx. That's a look at the Spartan 3's. Most were actually killed on Suicide missions while a high number of S2's were killed on Reach alongside the final company of S3s. But as the wiki even states, once given the MJOLNIR armor they were mostly on par with their S2 predecessors. While the S4's never recieved such an indepth training regimen. Sorry for all that lol
@@The_Kaiju-X_Project My opinion of it is S3s are better than S4s because they had harsher conditions and weren’t designed with survival in mind. They were designed to do missions and then die. S2s are objectively superior considering one of them can literally smash an S4s visor with ease, they have by far the most dangerous and demanding augmentations, and they were designed as something meant to impose fear in their opponents, considering they’re around 7 to 8 feet tall, heavily armored with shields and the best suit of armor available, and they can lift a tank with their bare hands and no assistance.
it's so much better that Spartan II's are unmatched. not only because it's done by contemptible means and anything short of that breeds lesser soldiers (but still pretty good) and there's poetry in that, but because it really shows just how valuable Chief and Spartan II's are. if II's and IV's are evenly matched, then it really takes from the coolness of being Chief, and Chief in general. VI's are completely fine to be incredible badasses, but never amounting to Chief, it just feels wrong. what's the point in Chief if they can just replicate him and make an army out of it? part of Chief being special is that he is one of the few II's left. all the others were just too fucking awesome to live. they all sacrificed themselves or died in brutal, destructive combat. even III's, they're fucking badass and hard-core and that's awesome, but they all gave their lives (bar few) to Reach. and failed. that's such an awesomely dark story. III's couldn't take Chief, maybe a full Noble team could subdue him, but take him out? it weakens Chief and in result, makes him less special. I care less about Chief and his missions if any other spartan out there could do it too. I like that from II's onward, the ages of the candidates grew. II's were mostly unfeeling gods (with exceptions ofc), pretty much everything they did was right served the best purpose. they were the epitome of what Halsey wanted. not human, spartans. and they were content with that. fuck the TV show. III's were hard-core murder machines that never gave up and left only bodies. they were mostly tweens and teenagers orphaned by the covenant and insurgents (I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong?). they hit puberty for the most part, so they had an anger and an angst to them. IV's were adults. they're just really badass marines. they bicker and have a sex drive, they're people with incredible abilities and armour. nothing will ever come close to the official Spartans, the Spartan II's. but Spartans are such great tools in the war that they need the best they can make and get. I do often go on the fence about their existence in canon. they kind of negate the point of ODSTs. but the potential for stories is pretty dang good. and I love a good story.
Chief himself is jack of all trades, master of none. Being Chief only makes sense for the games because he is the base standard physically, mentally, and emotionally. Others have skills to specific. Sure Linda-058 could wield a shotgun, but she wouldn't like it. Chief is the most CoD character out of The seventy five six year six year olds. It's what makes him so playable. Like Halsey said, he makes his own luck. Part of that is being in the right place at the right time. The games, books and comics represent that perfectly. After all, if he does it, nobody else has to. It's a reason I believe Halsey interviewed him first and personally, many other subjects could have seen her as stranger danger moment. And been made unobtainable by having their guard up. And not to mention, S-IVs go through a screening nearly as selective as the S-IIs. The kind of person the ODSTs would take, is far less restrictive then the S-IV program would require. And both are voluntary positions. The mentality would probably also require someone who has nothing but their service left in life. Think of an S-III, but going through normal military service. Orphened, combat oriented, driven, borderline suicidal to protect everybody who isn't themselves, even other Spartans. ODSTs are fine where they are. There is even more bad blood and drama because now their own are leaving for the glory stealing competition. Good writing is all they need. S-IIIs will always be my favorite class personally. The tragedy of going out like they did, only for the survivors pulled before deployment having survivors guilt that they lived while siblings perished. To bad Microsoft\Bungie screwed Eric Nylund in pay. His books are still peak Halo narrative.
@@ronnieortiz68032's didn't win the war, wtf lol, most of them ended up dead. It was humanity AND master chief(with Cortana, Keyes, others) who won the war, even though 2's were important, marines, high-ranked officers, generals, admirals, ONI, Spartan 3's contributed a lot. Spartan 4's in their time though weren't as important as 2's in their time, but still were useful in eliminating post-Covenant remnants
@thenerdhimself4434 "Spartan 3's contributed a lot" Spartan 3's were literally built for suicide missions when it wasn't advantageous to send better and more important resources. Chief is a Spartan 2, which proves my point... Spartan 2's contributed a LOT more in their own conflicts than Spartan 4's have in their own, which is what was my point.
With Spartans it comes down to 2 things. Augmentation and Experience. Spartan 2s grew up in the Human Covenant War, from start to finish. They received the some of the best augmentation of the Spartan program. Spartan 3s also grew up in the Human Covenant War, received the some of the best augmentation. But most were sent directly into suicide missions. It is said that Spartan 2s grew into their augmentation so the bulk of the 3s were denied that chance. Spartan 4s had childhoods, most probably still born in Human Covenant War. They grew up normal like us, signed up for the military. Hopefully each of them were distinguished in their field. Then they received some basic augmentation. Now they have to learn to be augmented. Spartan 2s are the most likely to win out of each Spartan class, but many Spartan 2s do not count out Spartan 3s who could be just as strong as them. In order for Spartan 4s to win they have to be unique, use something that normal life gives you rather than being a child soldier.
even tho its wrong, a spartan 2 out of armour could kill an infinite amount of spartan 4s out of armour. since they are just regular people without their armour. lets not forget chief as a teenager killed 4 odsts without any effort. and now that chief is much bigger and older, spartan 4s stand 0 chance
What makes spartan 4s good is there new armor. Since most Spartan 2s probably got an upgrade, they have the augmentations of 2s and the powerful armor of 4s
Argument? What argument? I don't think I've ever heard someone saying S4s are better. There are no notable ones. Just because Locke broke chiefs visor on his worn out helm doesn't mean there's a argument on if S4s are better. Chief just didn't want to body a fellow human/soldier/spartan.
Based on lore, S-II are qualitatively superior, but few in number and generated with dangerous highly unethical training and procedures. Even if an individual S-IV is only 10% as effective as an S-II, there are enough of them that it would still be a net gain for the UNSC. And given that Fireteam Crimson is canonically all S-IV at this point, clearly they can still be great soldiers
Thats not even a question. Spartan IV's were made to coordinate as a team. Considering those are basically amped up ODST's. SPARTAN II's were made to be one man armies. And their armor bests at least 3-4 of the S-IV's armor alone. Augmentation is different as is the training and mindset.
Dude the only way Locke looked like he was beating master chief was because chief was trying not to kill him but held back a little less when Locke broke his visor and besides spartan 4s are basically spartan 1s in mjolner armor
The II’s are the better soldiers, but the program that made the IV’s is pretty clearly better. First of all, it uses adults who already have proven combat records and training (apart from Vale but I’ve just chalked that up to halo 5 being halo 5) this means they don’t need a decade of training and time to grow up and be indoctrinated, you don’t have to indoctrinate a willing volunteer after all, and less time training means they’re in the fight quicker. Second, numbers, the Spartan IV’s exist in such large numbers that they can simply do more for the UNSC just by being able to be in more places at once. Sure the chief is the ultimate badass and no Spartan 4 could do what he did in infinite (turn the tide of a 6 month conflict in less than one day) but he can’t be in 2 places at once, even if we assume all the Spartan 2’s were as good as the chief, and are as good as 10 Spartan IV’s, the UNSC would only need 400 Spartan IV’s to match that capability, and estimates for the Spartan iv numbers is like 3,500 to 5,000. I’m not arguing that the IV’s are better than the II’s, but if I was a UNSC general in the covenant war, I’d rather have 5,000 super soldiers that I can make more of than 33 demigods that I can’t have any more of. Its simple maths and strategy, that makes the IV’s a more valuable asset, not on an individual level but in a strategic one
You have a point in numbers though you forget that, the Spartan IVs still aren't all that populated. There's really only like right now on what we're aware of 300-500+ Spartan IVs right now. At the max I would guess there's 1000. But we're certainly not to to the point where we can say we're in the 3000s yet lol. And while the Spartan IIIs, being vastly better than the Spartan IVs exist. And their were plently of them, about 930 in total. (Not counting the Cat-2s and Headhunters.) Their problem is that they to rely on young kids or teenagers, who match the genetic profiles for augmentation. And the fact that the majority of them were wasted. Aside from Gamma company, and the Cat-2s.
I’d like to think a good comparison would be like Delta Force to Army Rangers. Both are special forces, well trained, they just have different jobs. one is trained to literally destabilize countries, the other is to do operations the regular infantry can’t handle.
@@justapersonz5441 The 500+ number is based on what we heard about in earlier media set around 2553-55. Infinite is set in 2560, by now thousands of S-IV's is fairly reasonable. Also, I don't know about S-III's being "vastly better" than the S-IV's, most of them were only 10-12 when they were shipped off to die and didn't even get Mjoliner armour. ODST's who were made into S-IV's likely have more training and experience than any S-III bar NOBLE team. However Gamma company almost certainly are the best spartans, not only did Kurt think that but Fred-104 thinks that the ferrets could likely preform a physical feat that he argued couldn't be done without mjoliner, due to their brain mutations. And one other things, we know that spartan-IV's were made into headhunters alongside some surviving S-III's, so some of them are considered as capable as the best spartan-III's and given the hardest possible missions, with no indication there was a drop in preformance. Oh, also the 930 figure for S-III's may include Cat-II's and headhunters, its never specified if they included those groups in the graduating companies or not, Kat-B320 was part of beta company but pulled before TORPEDO, while 6 wasn't ever deployed alongside the rest of beta, so its unclear. Additionally, Spartan-IV's are being made during peacetime, so their numbers may be less than hypothetical wartime production. And we know that Class-2 for S-IV's was finished within a year of Class-1 despite being larger, so they're clearly easier to make.
@@VanOfSalt I think the UNSC already has rangers, they're mentioned in winter contention. I think a better comparison is perhaps Delta force to the green berrets (is that how you spell that?) both are highly elite special forces, but one is meant to destabalise countries while the other takes on high risk missions behind enemy lines that no other group could really do.
@@anguswaterhouse9255 I do think that the Spartan IIIs were vastly better than the IVs for a couple of reasons actually. That being. 1 - Their training was even rougher of that than the Spartan IIs. And even improved off the IIs. 2 - Their augmentations gave the same effects as IIs, meaning they still had that 300% reaction time as well as that natural night vision, super strength, unbreakable bones, and whatnot. Gamma company's augmentations only add to that. and 3 - Even Buck admitted that IIIs were better than the IVs. But I don't think GAMMA company are the best Spartans at all. I think what Kurt and Fred meant by them being the best spartans, is by the best in terms of Freshie standards. Some fans think that a GAMMA company spartan could beat a more experienced let's say beta or alpha company spartan. You see the problem with the spartan IIIs, wasn't even them. It was mainly just the orders they were given. For both operations Torpedo and Prometheus. There were actually plans for the Spartan IIIs to get out. People in my opinion mistake expandable, for disposable. Because for both Operation Torpedo, and Prometheus there were plans for the IIIs to come back alive. There were just circumstances that prevented this. For Example, Alpha Company was able to fight off hordes and hordes of covenant reinforcements for days as well as destroy multiple factories and were able to do this while all undersupplied. And BETA company had 7 cruisers come out of nowhere, reinforcing the covenant everywhere, as well as them having to deal with a lot of seraph squads. And it wasn't even the covenant that killed them, it was the factory blowing up. But, the reason why I said. 930 Spartan IIIs. Not including the cat-2s or headhunters is because... that's the only logical conclusion. For example. Carter, Emile, and Jun were all pulled out of Alpha Company before they were sent on their suicide mission. However, it said that only 300 members of Alpha Company PASSED. And it's stated that Carter graduated from Alpha Company before he soon got pulled out. Same for Jun and Emile. There's also Rosenda, Hazel, and Thom. Meaning there were likely reserves for both Alpha and Beta Company, to fill out the company numbers. And we know there were a lot more Spartan III cat-2s teams as well. Like Echo, Gauntlet, and Red to name a few. These teams were also often mistaken to be Spartan IIs, which by itself is an impressive feat. Though by 2552 no one knew what Spartan classes even were. But the fact that their performance was marked to be like an IIs is just impressive. And when we include the headhunters it sort of becomes a cluster. That's all though, Logistically the IVs are the best Spartans.
The amount of potential match ups of spartan 2 vs spartan 4 is so many. However, I don’t believe it would be easy. I believe personally, it all depends on a variety of things, and that’s also sadly down to the writer. There could be conceivable reasons why a spartan 2 could lose to a spartan 4, one of which is that a spartan 2 is aging. Some Spartans 2 have been fighting for how long? Eventually, their body will be wearing down, even if they are one of the deadliest grandpa or grandma around. Even with medical technology that easily can stop cancer in the halo universe, some things still break down, regardless if we want it to or not. Spartan 4’s also get the latest technology in general, even if it’s military surplus *and* mass produced. Top off that if you have a named spartan 4, they will generally tend to be more competent than generic spartan 4 (only reason why we see people like Buck, Rookie, Noble 6, Johnson etc, lasting the way they do, because they are named characters.) and as such, they don’t exactly fall to the wayside unless writers want them to. However, in general, Spartan 2s are vastly superior due to so aspects that if we were to compare them.. it’s gods vs demigods. It would be like comparing earliest form of Kratos in the psp versions of his games to his Ragnarok version, which is arguably the most powerful version of himself that he will ever be, having mastered himself and his rage.
The earlier versions of mjolnir were about being so advanced that the pilot, the limiting factor, had to be bumped up to an insane level in order to survive its use. The newest mjolnir (in my opinion) is more about making up for the shortcomings of the pilots/spartans. We see in Halo 5 and Infinite that often entire armor sets are designed specifically for stealth, scouting, spying, operating in dark or underwater environments, etc. but specifically stuff that the original mjolnir might not have needed because the Spartan 2 would have had better hearing, better sight, better reaction times. We see this now too with dumber AI being given to every Spartan to bump them up, yet chief with no AI is arguably still operating at a higher level that is then boosted further with one. Put simply Spartans 4s are likely now on par with Spartan 2’s but only because the design language is now specifically tailored around making them be equivalent, whereas before it was about pushing things so far that only Spartan 2’s could handle it
Spartan 2’s are significantly stronger without any gear due to genetic augmentation from childhood the enhancements gained from the newer suits would be beneficial tenfold on a 2 compared to 4 not to say Spartan 4’s aren’t bad asses but they are simply not the same category.
IIs are wayyyyyy stronger out of armour, yes. With the new Mjolnir platform though, power levels become closer to being balanced. IIs are still betting imo though :)
Spartan IIs still alive when the IVs start coming out would absolutely wreck them unless decently outnumbered because theyd have about 30 years worth of experience/training
Spartan-II's: Augmentations were less compatible with general population, requiring abducting individuals who would have a genetic affinity towards these augmentations as well as requiring being done at an early age. Also, children abducted for this were rigorously trained and taught from early ages. These kids were told up-front what happened to them and why. This led to a complex relationship between the Spartan-II's and Dr. Halsey, because they knew they were abducted, but they also would never have had the chance to have such skill and tools to make as much of a difference as they could from the Spartan Project. This led them to have a measured outlook despite their superhuman abilities. This gave them a measure of modesty and humility. Spartan-IV's: Augmentations could now be applied to adults due to breakthroughs and advancements, removing the need for abducting children. Most adults going into the Spartan-IV program would be looking forward to becoming badasses and would have their ego inflated after they got to experience the change in bodily performance post-augmentations compared to pre-augmentations. They only heard rumors about the original Spartan-II's conception and training, so they didn't know the extent of how hard the Spartan-II's trained and studied. Who is stronger? On average, they are of equal strength. Who would win in a fight? Spartan-II's. Hands down. Trained to be weapons of war from extremely early ages and taught so many skills, fighting is pretty much all they really know. A lot of Spartan-IV's end up being over-glorified ODST's. Some of them, like Gabriel Thorne, turned out a lot closer in mindset to Spartan-II's, but those are rare gems. The physical capabilities were on the same level, but it was the training and the minds of the individuals that made a huge difference; Both had the tools, but Spartan-II's knew how to use them better.
Everyone's always on about the II's having more "experience," but you also gotta remember a lot of the IV's came from hardcore veteran ODSTs and Marines. Not saying they're more experienced, though.
See there are a lot of spartan 4’s but the 2’s just can’t be beat they are the perfect human there faster stronger often times more intelligent then 4’s at this point in the lord 2’s have been around for a wile combating and exceeding the experience of any 4 and yes speed strength and eye sight do matter in m6g3 don’t know where he was told a 4 and 2 where equal in them
I like the Spartan-IV as a concept. No longer needing to kidnap children to force them on augmentations to become supersoldiers. We got career soldiers that choose to be supersoldiers and have armor that is cheap enough to mass produced and can compensate for what they lack. Gen-IV augmentations are also a milestone to UNSC gene modding, which has the potential to include every human in the future with more advancements. Imagine the entirety of humanity getting the same safe augmentations. The Librarian would like that because ancient humanity is naturally stronger and in line with Spartan-IIs according to the Hellcat armor. Halo modern Humans got the short end of the stick when even an Unggoy can kill an average human with their bare hands.
I fought the concept of spartans IV was so damn dumb, because the spartans were these mysterious and badass people, but then anyone could be a Spartan, i didn't like they, but i'm reading now halo the rubicon protocol, and man, i liked so much how kelly gay wrote the spartans IV, they still so humans, with feelings, fears and weakness, i loved Stone, Kovan and Horvath(the 3 principal spartans of the book), in my opinion this book corrected the IVs
Wait people have this argument? I thought it was super obvious that a Spartan II would pummel a Spartan IV. I mean just look at any Spartan II they absolute monsters when it comes combat! Most Spartan IV pale in comparison to them.
Despite myself favoring the classic Spartan II’s, I’d like to try and give an argument in favor of the IV’s since they used to catch a lot of hate. I think the IV’s are, in terms of technical capacity for warfare, the best class of Spartans and here is why. They have received the safest augmentations of any class meaning far less dropouts, they only recruit amongst consenting adults meaning they’re not as morally grey as the previous Spartan classes, they use the most powerful and sophisticated class of Mjolnir powered-armor to date and have only ever been fielded with upgrades to the previous Mark VI Gen-1 class, and they have very large numbers in comparison to other Spartan classes to help flesh out their ranks. If the Spartan IV’s were fielded during the Human-Covenant War, I think the UNSC could have defeated the Covenant much earlier due to the added benefit of having far more super-soldiers at their disposal. Though the average Spartan IV outside of armor could not hope to match the equivalent Spartan II, they are only ever fielded in their Mjolnir so the difference is negligible due to Gen-3 Mjolnir helping to close the gap in power between the two. In summary, Spartan II’s are superior humans, but Spartan IV’s are equivalent if not superior soldiers due to the added benefits I have listed above. (Btw don’t take this as hate for Spartan II’s, they are straight up superheroes)
The way I think about it. Even if the armor provides the 2s and 4s the same abilities, in the most even fights the 2s are gonna win from better durability under the armor
I believe in the books and games its states that the Spartans are roughly matched in their suits. I’d assume though outside of suits spartan 2’s are clapping every other generation.
So while I think IIs are clearly top dog in virtually ever respect, its been made clear that standout individuals can keep up with or surpass them in a fight. The fight with Locke in halo 5 was terribly executed but honestly I could imagine him being able to fight Chief and potentially win. HE is an ONI special agent after all, he probably has some insane training he's went through, and his armor was more advanced.
This is a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke, what drugs are you on to even believe that a Spartan IV compares to a II. No one has ever asked this question, we even watch Chief body Like in Halo4 and even then everyone agrees on just how much 343 had to nerf Chief for it to be a fight at all. Spartan II soldiers took extensively longer and stronger modifications. Don't take my word on it, why don't you take a look at how many Spartans were designated as "hyper lethal" *Mic drop*
On a power scale, yes. But if looking at which would have impacted the war effort more, then probably the IV's because there are just so many more. The limited amount of II's made them unreliable in the war effort as a whole. If you had to choose one to fight alongside with, then yeah, II's are better. But if I personally had to fight a whole war and I had to choose between the small number of II's or the massive amounts of IV's, I would go with the IV's. Now of course you can have both and also chief by himself did crazy things for the war effort, but looking on a galactic scale, leadership probably viewed the IV's as a greater asset.
This is just an Unfair fight, Spartan II's are simply the best of the best and Spartan II's have fought in more horrific situations compared to the IV's, and also II's Armour Designs are GOATED!!!
Honestly I think in that fight if there wasn’t plot armor and stuff chief would win but in that cutscene where they fight if there wasn’t chiefs plot armor he’d be frozen after he missed that hook.
A list of badass Banished Infantry and Vehicle types from Halo Wars 2 that were left out of Infinite for literally no reason at all: 1. Brute Grenaders 2. Elite Enforcers (Infinite has them, but they aren't specialized infantry anymore, they're just Elite Majors) 3. Grunt Heavies 4. Goliaths 5. Hunter Captains 6. Brute Warlords (basically Chieftains but ten times more interesting) 7. Skitterers 8. Elite Rangers 9. Engineers 10. Jump Pack Brutes 11. Grunt Goblins 12. Ironclad Hunters 13. Blisterbacks 14. Reavers 15. Marauders 16. Skiffs (not from HW2, but they were still cut for no reason so I'm counting them) 17. Methane Wagons 18. Locusts 19. Specialized Suicide Grunt Squads 20. Shrouds I could probably keep going, but I think you get the picture. That's not even talking about the loads of weapons and vehicles from previous mainline games that they pointlessly left out.
Spartans 2’s are literally born and built different. They’re the crème de la crème when it comes to human genetics. Spartan 4’s are just regular humans that turned out to be exceptional soldiers before the Spartan 4 selection and less intrusive enhancements. There is no competition
Spartan IVs seem way more practical long term then Spartan IIs, not only do you have a supersolider with Gen 3 armor on par with Spartan IIs, but are way more cost effective and are capable of completeing missions
Saying that IVs received less intrusive augmentations is just flat out wrong. They had all of their organs replaced with synthetic ones and their skeletons infused with titanium. They can still wear half a ton of unpowered armor with little movement restrictions. The only difference between the IIs and IVs is reaction time/speed and skill level, which are in favor of IIs. Aside from that, however, there's hardly a difference.
I know a lot of people are going to sit here and dunk on 4's until the sun stops shining. And as a fellow Spartan 2 enjoyer myself, I have to say I feel they're a lot more evenly matched than most would think. Spartan 2's have genetic perfection and experience on their side of course, but I suppose we've learned nothing from what makes a Spartan truly a Spartan. It's not about training or genetics or even augmentation, it's much deeper than that. The very soul of a Spartan burns brightest when they are, at their core, a warrior.
Here's how it would go down. Sassy Spartan IV tries it on with Spartan II. Spartan III remembers what happened when the III's tried this, calls the ODSTs over to watch the fun. Spartan II proceeds to body slam Spartan IV and orders them to stay down. Spartan IV lays on the floor for the rest of the day because they're scared the Spartan II will come and break their kneecaps if they get up.
For me, I think Spartan 2s are superior. However, I think it also depends on who a Spartan 4, for example, say that Johnson survived Halo 3 and became a Spartan 4, I'm sure he could go toe to toe with a Spartan 2.
One that goes through hell and back on daily basis is the real hero. Btw, Im very technical person who loves technology and all....and I will still tell you the person who want through more hells and serval will still win any day.😎
Spartan II's are canonically much stronger and powerful. However, as mentioned there's alot more effort that has to go into creating a Spartan II plus all of the invasive medial procedures that kill or disable 60% of the applicants.
4's were just a fill in to cover up the black ops for orion project. They were the face of spartan to show that they are still human. Also 4's has some sleeper cell from the insurgents which made them inferior to 2 and better yet 3's, as instillation 00 said 4's are just cannon foders to take the brunt of any attack PR or operations wise. Better yet ODST such as buck is better to be assault teams rather than the 4's. Also O.N.I. Things. Not gonna be surprise if Spartan 5's are just predators for insurgent spartans.
Honestly its pretty factual that the 4's just lack what made the 2's and even the 3's so unstopable. Now sure modern armour enhances them but lets be honest with ourselves, chief in mk4 or noble 6 in mk5 (i believe he wore mk 5 at least) would make any 4 in mk 6 or 7 their bitch. A lot of it comes down to training, 2's and 3's got their augments near the same age and this had much more time to work with them and build themselves around it rather than adjusting to the augments and changing how they fight. for example most past spartans were trained to act in a team but also as individuals, which is how we got scenes like giving the covant back their bomb and telling them to make it count. 2's and 3's were given a task and did it the way they knew best, 4's are still soldiers and are basically just cogs in the machine, on their own most suffer, and without specific orders they also suffer. 4's are made to take orders and follow command, 2's and 3's were just given a goal and told good luck . Best to start good than to become good. 2's and 3's also had better augments which help them stand above 4's in most aspects.
There is no comparison, a Spartan II is curbstomping the strongest Spartan IV with extreme prejudice. To add, nobody knows sacrifice like a II or III. Their very augmentation process was proof of this, as roughly 75% did not survive. (S2's)
Wait... this was answered... ots the spartan- IIs they've had longer to train with the augmentics, and power armor requiring fewer limiters and a better meshing of their fighting abilities.
Spartan IVs are kinda dogged on, but they are fantastic soldiers. A single one is still expected to kill dozens of enemy combatants, and a team is expected to kill a legion worth. That said, Spartan IIs are responsible for some of the most ridiculous feats in modern Halo. Master Chief cut a swath through High Charity, then did it again when it was fully under Flood control. Blue Team wiped out the second largest battle station and a fleet of 500 capital ships, a fleet that iirc contained multiple Super-Destroyers, likely a few dozen carriers, and likely several super-cruisers. Which would by all rights put it on par with all but High Charity's fleet. One Spartan II floored Vadamee, and it wasn't a fight. Our Arbiter buddy survived because he was helped by a Zealot, and the Spartan would have killed them both if he wasn't on a timer. So yeah, this goes to the IIs. Furthermore, the Mark 7 armor is used by a good portion of Spartan IIs we know are active, and we know Chief in particular is using the Mark 8 now.
