*Join us for our RIGHT RESPONSE CONFERENCE: “Theonomy & Postmillennialism” May 5-7, 2023 | Georgetown, TX SPEAKERS: Dr. James White, Gary DeMar, Dr. Joe Boot, and Pastor Joel Webbon. REGISTER HERE! rightresponseconference.com/
A response to Dr. Gary DeMar's abandonment of the Reformation (a great cloud of witnesses) and their PROPER interpretation of 2 Thes. 2. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iHQdY-gPTs0.html. 1). Paul is in fact talking about the 2nd Advent (Gary denies this; Matthew Henry refutes Gary DeMar); 2). The "rebellion/apostasy" spoken of is directly related to the revelation of the "man of sin/lawlessness, son of perdition/destruction," which didn't rise to power until AFTER the Fall of the Roman Empire (476 A.D.; cf. Jonathan Edwards), and that it refers to apostate CHRISTIANITY (Matthew Henry's Commentary); not apostate Judaism. 3). The "temple" Paul refers to is in fact the CHURCH (cf. 1 Cor. 3:16; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21; cf. Charles Hodge, Systematic Theology, vol. III, "Antichrist"). 4). The Lord will destroy the Antichrist by the "brightness of HIS COMING". Again, this is referring to the 2nd Advent; not the temple destruction of 70 A.D. You Preterists are playing fast and loose with God's Prophetic Word, just like the Dispensational Futurists do. Sad to witness the abandonment of the Reformation and the sons and grandsons of it. *Soli Deo Gloria*
Ignatius, 2nd Bishop of Antioch, was first to record the basic concept of the apostate church. You can check his theology. Everything Paul said in 2Thessalonians 2 was correct. 1. Powerful Delusion is Christianity, 2. The Man of Lawlessness is the Bishop of Antioch (forerunner of the Papacy), 3. The Lie is "the Torah/Law is abolished". The true disciples of the Messiah is seen Acts 9:1-2 & Acts 24:5&14. They were the Way or the Natsarim Sect of 1st Century Judaism. They were observers of the Torah/Law, Neviim/Prophets, Ketuvin/Writings. Check it out.
I already watched this larger format full interview, but I was clicking through your videos today and decided to rewatch this. I’m glad I did! Because today I sat in the pews as my pastor made a eschatological argument for dispensationalism and their entire pre mil shabang basically. He went straight to 2nd Thessalonians and literally did exactly what he’s discussing here. Now I know that I’m post mil, and landed there a couple years ago as soon as I began to crack into personally researching eschatology on my own, for the first time. And that brought me out of the commonly assumed dispensational approach that alllllllllllllll the pastors usually teach from. But post mil just resonated for me personally with the evidence presented. Now, I’m fine being a member of a church that has a church stance that varies from my personal theology. But I wonder at what point it does begin to clash. My pastor presented the topic and it’s info strongly strongly skewed to the dispensational view point, and seemed to freeze and suspend all logical thought processes as he stated “what the scriptures mean”, and directly said this is it, period, end of story. And he also used common thought stopping devices like by saying “the common erroneous beliefs of post mil” blah blah blah, when saying 1 point of the post mil side. Attaching the adjective to the belief, before stating the belief, causing the congregants to feel as if they are being “erroneous” if they were thinking something of the post mil vein. And therefore creating the thought stopping device. But out of the entire sermon, what seemed to be his entire pivotal piece of “evidence”, was that how in 2nd Thessalonians the church was currently caught up in the confusion and worry of that days current misinformation campaign, being that the rapture had already occurred and that they were of the ‘left behind’ group. My pastor ascertained that for them to have been thinking of that being a very valid concern to cause them so much upset, that they too must have believed the dispensational pre mil type of vein for eschatology. That was his “big ammo” of the sermon that was said nearing the end, as if it was supposed to magically convince us all how valid dispensationalism truly is. Now my skeptical self, naturally thought about all the times in scripture that the people in Biblical times assumed something they saw, to mean something completely unbiblical. And the many times that they literally brought it straight to Jesus even, to seek the answer. The one that jumped straight to my head while in the pews, was when the disabled man in scripture was sitting before them, and the Pharisees (I think?) said Lord who sinned to cause this man to be born this way? His parents or him? And Jesus rebuked them and explained that God makes all things healthy or lame for His own glory, and that it all has a glorifying purpose, that He has does on purpose. And that they had faulty thinking in believing that there was a sin in causation, and the suffering given as a sort of family punishment. But as I am a very amateur theologian, and not professionally trained whatsoever in ministry, I’m sure there are so many examples that Great quoters could name, where the Biblical people had abounding folly in their thought processes as God was presenting to them the New Testament truth, and covenant, in those days for the first time. I think of how much of their ignorance and folly seemed to be directly rooted back to the Jewish laws and the Jewish ways, as that was so very dominant then and the people clearly struggled to remove those old ways from their hearts and minds. And then also the pagan and Greco Roman ways that was interlaced in some communities then, as they had become more dominated by those cultures in other villages. Anyways so that’s where my more novice brain went when I heard that argument as if it was supposed to be some mic drop of evidence. I would really love to hear your response to this exact argument for 2nd Thessalonians defense for dispensationalism, that pivots on that town falsely believing that the rapture had passed, and left them behind. How should we respond to this with grace and truth on our own and in our churches? And how does a meekly little no-one church member know when it is appropriate to challenge the pastor in theology, and when should we just sit down and shut up, in accepting that in todays age we do not get the luxury of shared theology at our churches. Since most churches are literally heretical, or cowards, or both, and so we find a lot of us theology lovers at churches that at least aren’t those ladder things, but theology does clash at times. As always Joel, it’s been a pleasure if you even read this. Haha!! 🙏🏽♥️🙏🏽
I just wanted to give a thumbs-up to your description of the thought/debate stopper language. I have seen that a good bit myself, but I never did such a good job describing it. That said, I’m a fairly snarky sonofagun myself, so maybe I can take your description on board to check myself as well. 👍
@@billbeen9350 hahahhaha I greatly appreciate the compliment! It was sort of a me thinking and processing out loud as I wrote, I find it helpful to bounce things off another to help myself find conclusions to issues. I found the entire situation at our church increasingly disheartening, and dividing, which unfortunately lead to us officially retracting our membership. Which lead to even more true colors being revealed from that process… to say the least. I highly value and appreciate the online community we have here, on this and similar channels, as it’s been the only theological oasis for me for years now. With sadly my area being exceptionally barren church land. So feel free to comment any other thoughts you may be having. 🙏🏽
Regarding American history, if Gary DeMar doesn't mention the occult and the widespread influence of the mystics during America's founding, I would probably avoid it as missing a major piece of the puzzle. The mystics flourished in popularity during the Reformation alongside Christians and history books urgently need to mention the widespread influence of pagan mysticism among the political elites (and often among the clergy) at the time.
I see that SOOOO MUCH in the reformation studies!! And I’m baffled by no one else mentioning it ever! I’m also baffled by the huge sin on the side of lots of reformers, like mass murders of Catholics not physically threatening them. And why don’t Christian’s today point out those massive swaths of sin on the reforming side??!! I see it as a great opportunity to point out how great God is despite all these very flawed and sinful men being the vessels. I see it as opportunities to help keep congregants in humility, in reminding them of all our sin. Instead of allowing blanket versions of reformation stories, riddled with political propaganda and misinformation, that just convince the congregants to RAH RAH RAH for “their team” now in a postmortem. And I literally just tried to explain this to my pastor after our reformation party, and he told me that I was the only person he’s ever heard express a distaste for what this group of reformers did. And he urged me to go research more about history. 😂 But that’s been one of my hobbies for many many years already! Lol! He told me I need to go read books from the reformers, and then go read books from the Catholics, and then go see what I think after that. After I explained that I reach history more from the factual grounds, which is just seeing literal facts about what’s proven to have occurred. Like England sending swaths of soldiers into Scotland to murder Catholic civilians in the night. And that I have less of an interest reading postmortem one sided propaganda, where they each claim to be reciting what happened. But he laughed at me for saying that, as if I was foolish for not reading one sided propagandized books. Thoughts? And was I way off point with what you were referring to?😂🙏🏽
1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even NOW are there “MANY” ANTICHRISTS; whereby we know that it is the end of the time. The whole Christianity is talking about only one antiChrist(Rev 13:18) even the Bible is talking about MANY antiChrists(1John 2:18) and about MANY false Christs(Matt 24:24 Mark 13:22). Let’s see why you should never talk about antiChrist without knowing CHRIST. Because seeing the word CHRIST as being only the second name of Jesus you will never know the meaning of the word antiChrist. Having verses like Colos 2:2 about Christ as mystery of God which was hidden in all generations(Colos 1:26) you must wait until you will be the saint seen in Colos 1:26 Rev 14:12 so that you will understand the true meaning of the word CHRIST being the sanctuary(John 2:21) on which is invested God’s wisdom(Colos 2:3 Proverbs 8:1) which have a beginning(Proverbs 8:20-25 John1:1,14 John 2:21). For now continue to see yourself in John 12:34 delighting yourself in the same theology OF THE Bible which doesn’t allow you to know Jesus as CHRIST so that you cannot know the antiChrist and all false Christs mentioned by Jesus(Matt 24:24 Mark 13:22). But never forget that Jesus will come only after coming of the true CHRIST into His church which own the teachings about Jesus as Christ the Sanctuary given so that you will be sanctuary(1Cor 6:19 1Cor 3:16) for your final test in 2Thes 2:3,4 Rev 13:15 Rev 12:17… Hopefully I convince you to study the Bible to know at first all about Jesus as Christ before trying to know all false Christs and antiChrists.
Gary says in verse 1 when it says "our being gathered together to him" is not the rapture, but instead is what was already happening in their day. He says its the gospel going out and gathering Jew and Gentile to Christ. The problem is, Paul says in verse 3 that day would not come until the man of lawlessness was revealed, which was future to his writing. Paul says in verse 2 he is referring to the day of the Lord. The Scriptures have a lot of say about the Day of the Lord. Its when God judges man's kingdoms, the rapture and resurrection of all believers, and the establishment of the worldwide Kingdom of the Messiah happens. Be Bereans!
@@chrislabrec You said the 'Day of the Lord' means: "Its when God judges man's kingdoms, the rapture and resurrection of all believers, and the establishment of the worldwide Kingdom of the Messiah happens." - wondering the scripture to support all of that. The nations were given to Christ already, we see the fulfillment of Psalms 2 in the New Testament. He must reign until all his enemies are put under his feet. Christ says in Matthew 28:18-19 " "18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" -- It says, 'therefore' meaning b/c Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth - GO. " He has all authority because Psalm 2 tells us that and the fullfillment in Acts where it is quoted: Jesus was speaking that as a present authority, I have all authority in heaven and on earth now. He can say that b/c in Psalm 2:2 "The kings of the earth take their stand And the rulers conspire together Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying," -- Then God from heaven laughs at them. Then in Acts we see where Herod, Pontious Pilate and all the Jews & Gentiles made their stand against Christ. It is quoted and referenced in Acts 4:26-27 "26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord and against His Christ.’ 27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel," Then in Psalm 2:7 "‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You" -- This isn't speaking of a time when the Son of God came into existence b/c Jesus is the eternal God. You are my Son and today I have begotten you was speaking about the resurrection. As we see in Acts 13:33 "33 that God has fulfilled this promise to those of us who are the descendants by raising Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son; today I have begotten fathered You." So Jesus is begotten from the dead, he is the firstborn from the dead as it says in Colossians. Then right after that in Psalm 2:8 "Ask it of Me, and I will certainly give the nations as Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth as Your possession." So after the resurrection, is when Jesus gives the great commission. All the nations have been given to him, he purchased them with his own blood. --Taken from a Steve Gregg and maybe Doug Wilson study.
@Blessed Thank you for the detailed answer and you started with the assumptions and bad mouthing - so I hope you can take it just the same. I would dish the same back at you - you do not understand Jewish culture of the time nor the Old Testament and its fulfillments in the New - I truly believe that. To say we're not in the Messianic Age, are you Jewish by chance or a Christian? I am not reformed fyi, not a Calvinist. Isaiah 2:1-5, great passage. Israel, the Church, is no longer built upon the sword. As Israel use to have to beat their plowshares into swords to conquer nations, now in the Messianic Age, we beat our swords into plowshares showing the kingdom is not expanded using force any longer. The Kingdom use to be built upon the sword - not any longer. The Law of Christ, the beginning of the Church poured out from Jerusalem first & is going to all nations - TY Jesus, amen! Daniel prophesied of the kingdom, its timing was spot on, right during the Roman Empire as predicted. You are still looking for a physical kingdom, just as the Jews were - just the same, does that concern you? I don't know what you're inferring from Dan 2,7,9, 12. You say there is a kingdom - or maybe not, or maybe just a kingdom with no King - how does that make any sense. Christ is my King and all my brothers and sisters, I would hope you believe he is your King assuming you're Christian.... He is on the throne of David, Jesus says “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me." - But you say he said 'No', can you tell me why you believe that apart from the things you see in the world? I see enormous amounts of people coming to Christ world wide. Yahweh ruled Israel from heaven, you're saying Jesus at the right hand of the Father can't rule from heaven. Why can't he? Solomon ruled from the throne of David even though it was not from the physical literal throne David was on. " 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." - You have death as the first thing defeated when he arrives? I agree when Christ comes, after the "1000" years, he comes in flaming fire, destroyed death in the great white throne judgment. And everything is perfect after that with a new heaven and earth. But you sound like a Dispensationalist possibly, not sure, Christ denied the earthly kingdom because Israel rejected him? Once they come to the Messiah then he will rule from Jerusalem or something of the sort?
And, yet, his view (High Partial Preterism) is an abject ABANDONMENT of the Reformation. He fully admits it, too! Bible prophecy is far richer than Gary even knows. Yet, he rejects it. He is woefully deceived (as are the Futurists); and, he's deceiving others.
Who is the restrainer? It's the old man, the carnal nature that prevents or restrains the dead/sleeping spirit within from awakening from its deadly sleep.
I'd say that following God is easier than ever given the full canon of Scripture and many, many well developed doctrines...some left to develop. No new revelation but seeing plain and simple Truth that's already staring us in the face.
I would like Pastor Joel or Gary to please tell us how many chapters of Josephus a believer must read and trust before they can know how NT prophecy has already been fulfilled? Secondly, do you find it awkward to proclaim Sola Scriptura while at the same time heavily relying on extrabiblical writings to interpret NT prophecy? Thanks for considering these sincerely
You don't have to know any history to trust that Biblical prophecy was fulfilled in in its prescribed time. There is such a thing as simple faith. It may be interesting and helpful to know the history, but not necessary. Even in this very video Gary DeMar says he's not sure who the man of lawlessness was. Josephus doesn't give us any hints as far as I know. You >do< however need to trust the Bible and it has some things to say about the timeframes: Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 1Cor10:11 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. Rev 1:1-3
Lightning from the east to the west. Could be allegory... Or literal as the storms taking place at the time the land of Judea was being invaded, up to and including the siege of Jerusalem were very extreme according to Josephus.
The fact that Christians were basically left on their own by Rome, confirms for me that the Jewish Zealots (Israel/Jerusalem) was the fourth beast in Daniel's vision. There are two Zealots that were taken into captivity by the Romans - and the Jewish priests in the temple also took Christians into captivity - Rome was not taken into captivity and also - according to Daniel, the stone that was not made from human hands destroyed the fourth beast - Rome actually grew in strength after the destruction of the temple.
He sure did, in Romans 5:20. The law was so that sin would increase, not decrease. The law was a setup for fail. The law states, for all have broken the law, sinned. So, based on the law, no one is righteous.
I hope everyone who listens to this do their own homework before making up their minds. One simple example that I have picked up from a previous discussion of our host here is that the things to happen described in Luke 21 is not exactly the same as described in Matthew 23 (or is it 24?). In Matthew Jesus describes the signs and say THEN the following will happen which means it will happen after the signs He described. In Luke, Jesus describes the same signs but then say BEFORE THESE THINGS the following will happen. So, the bad things to happen will happen before the signs He described.
Ignatius, 2nd Bishop of Antioch, was first to record the basic concept of the apostate church. You can check his theology. Everything Paul said in 2Thessalonians 2 was correct. 1. Powerful Delusion is Christianity, 2. The Man of Lawlessness is the Bishop of Antioch (forerunner of the Papacy), 3. The Lie is "the Torah/Law is abolished". The true disciples of the Messiah is seen Acts 9:1-2 & Acts 24:5&14. They were the Way or the Natsarim Sect of 1st Century Judaism. They were observers of the Torah/Law, Neviim/Prophets, Ketuvin/Writings. Check it out.
I love some tenets of Postmill and do believe some text are about 70 AD. I think the theme of both letters to the Thessalonians make it clear they are about the 2nd coming since Paul had to flee for his life his first journey they are and he is correcting their theology on the final judgement and resurrection. Even in chapter 1 of 2 Thessalonians he is talking about the final judgement so why all of a sudden would he switch to 70 AD. I think it would be difficult to find a commentator in church history that holds Demar’s view on 2 Thess 2. Like I said I do believe some text in the NT speak of 70 AD but Preterist tend to go to far and inserting it into almost every text about the day of the Lord
Almost every NT author said at one point that the end was “coming soon” or “about to take place”. They all understood that the end of the old covenant age was eminent and I believe that that is the focus of not only the majority of the New Testament but also the prophecies in the Old Testament.
@@susanthroop1279 I’m not sure why you’re asking that question. I thought my response was quite clear. The “end” is the end of the old covenant age. The way Israel was supposed to worship God. Now we have Jesus
@@jlettizard6465 Not everyone subscribes to Preterism. Old Covenant age is also nebulous. The Old Covenant is not an age; its an agreement between God and the Israelites.
But the parousia in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a different parousia? It sounds like you have much more in common with Dispensationalists than you think. 🤔
The book Washington’s God postulates that Washington was remembered as a deist because later fundamentalists didn’t understand that an Anglican Christian doesn’t talk they do. “Not a fundamentalist? Must not be a Christian.”
If your position is true, Gary, the man of lawlessness would be known and not a mystery was he a Jew or a Roman give us his name666 and quit scoffing and EAGERLY AWAIT HIS COMING Hebrews 9 ( he is only coming for those eagerly await him) learn a lesson from the religious Jews, who are not eagerly awaiting him at the first Advent
Hey Pastor Joel. I have a quick question for you. I hear you mention a lot about Dispensational Premillennialism. I’m just curious if you believe that Historic Premillennialism, distinct from Dispensational Premillennialism, has the same issues with regards to a pessimistic view of the future. Thanks!
I disagree with this exposition. The “mystery of iniquity” has to be the converse of the “mystery of godliness.” So if the “mystery of godliness” is “God manifest in the flesh” (1 Tim. 3:16) then the “mystery of iniquity” is “Satan manifest in the flesh”-the man of sin. All of the ancient expositors believed this to be an individual person who had yet to arise. So saying that 70 ad meets the criteria is definitely is an overreach. What we need to remember is that when Christ left the temple for the last time, it was no longer reckoned as God’s temple. “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” Matthew 23:38 KJV Granted, following Christ’s ascension the apostles sometimes met in the temple. But this seems to have been only for witnessing the Gospel; not because they had any notion that it was still God’s house. The true temple was recognized as Christ’s body, the church. While I think it’s possible that Paul envisioned antichrist as sitting in a rebuilt temple, the Reformers may have been closer to the truth. The “man of sin” will at some point demand Divine honors and “cut off” or outlaw Christian worship, and then the prophecy will be fulfilled. While 2 Thess. 2 can be a difficult prophecy for anyone to interpret, we should exercise extreme caution in claiming past fulfillments, especially when no one held this view until recent years. We need to be “sober minded” when teaching prophecy, and not rush unto these kinds of judgments.
Nearly every pre-nicene church writing was explicitly pre-mill with a future fulfillment of this passage. These are people that were taught directly under the apostles or the second generation from them. Yet these guys act like all the church fathers were post mill hoping nobody fact checks them.
With all respect, it is impossible to take this information seriously, as factual data when the entire conversation is based on “speculation”, “probably”, and I “believe”. You either have scriptural references to back up your position, and/or historical facts that inline with this action taking place. God bless.
Every eschatological position uses a certain amount of speculation. Even when they cite bible verses or passages, much of it still comes down to speculating on certain things.
The entire futurist view is based on speculation since apparently none of it has occurred yet. So the futurist is in a much deeper hole than a Preterist. At least a Preterist can point to historical events, but a futurist can only point to what they think the passage means but don’t actually know.
@@J.F.331 Preterist theology is foolishness. I am a Biblicist, thus saith the Lord is all I need. What I don't understand, I trust God and His holy Word, period point blank. If I keep my trust in God and His word (KJV) and not the every wind and doctrine of false teachers and those who promote heresy, I will be OK.
@@PostmillennialChristian97 We need to leave the speculation out and stay with the text and rightly dividing scripture; too many books and false teachings.
Contextually, it is Nero. Was "already at work," per Paul - does it for me. Amazed how disp./premil. people almost never interpret Scripture contextually. Its meaning is always at least 2K years later. Remember the negative comments about Papias, the second century? I think that they still apply for his "descendants."
Matthew 5:17-20 "Don't think I have come to abolish the Law." - Jesus (Yeshua) Romans 5:14 - Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses (because the Law was in effect since Adam). The man of sin is the one who does away with the Law, who sits in the temple (hearts), declaring himself G-d. One religion teaches of a man who did away with the Law. I will leave you to decide which one.
@deweyfosworth7833 Why did you put a period after the word, LAW, in Matthew 5:17? Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. The old covenant is the do's and don'ts. The law does not begin in Genesis. It begins in Exodus 20. In the context of Matthew 5:17, the law and the prophets is Genesis to Malachi. Prophesy of Jesus is what is to be fulfilled. Also, see verse 13 of Romans 5. Abraham was married to sister Sarah. A grevious sin in...THE LAW.
@@chapmaned24 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Better? Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." By saying that the Law didn't occur until Exodus 20 in actuality, means that the earth wasn't formed until Moses got the Word from G-d. Short-sighted. The Word was from the beginning and created everything and by Him, who was from everlasting, in totality, not in part. Adam learned the sacrificial laws before they were given in the wilderness to Israel. How else were Cain and Abel judged as pleasing or displeasing, acceptable or unacceptable?
@deweyfosworth7833 For God sakes, man, what are you talking about? The Law came under Moses, not Adam, nor, Abraham, but Moses. The law is not of faith. The law is about works, aka deeds, aka wages. Abraham was considered RIGHTEOUS by faith WITHOUT THE LAW. Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us. Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith:... Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
@@chapmaned24 Romans 3:31 " Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Grace and righteousness comes by G-d alone. But after one has been "Born of the Spirit", called out to follow Messiah, they don't continue breaking the Law. The deeds of the Law don't justify, they show faith. James 2:21-22 " Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?" Genesis 26:5 "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” The Lord called Abraham out of sin. Abraham OBEYED and KEPT everything G-d revealed to him of His Laws and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Galatians 3:6). No one can say they believe G-d and deny the very Law of G-d or say they have FAITH (faithful to the Word of G-d) and be faithless. Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" SIN is the breaking of the Law of G-d (1 John 3:4). 1 John 2:3-6 "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." Yeshua was a Jew who observed the entire Law of G-d, declared the Law was forever, and expects His followers to obey it. John 14:15 "“If you love Me, keep My commandments."
The son of perdition is Judas. The fact that this figure is personified in Judas shows us we are not talking of an individual but a class of people. The psalms often use this language in describing classes of people. Paul never talks of the temple in reference to Jerusalem, but always to the church, so we must regard it so. He is talking of false teachers , inasmuch as John has said that antichrists would come from among you. That he is displayed in the temple shows he is entertained, that false doctrine is being heard by the church, even as Paul has warned of wolves. The church is in an infant state in Thesalonica, the foundations have been laid, the Greeks are hearing, the time for bible twisters has not become possible as error is in response to truth. Weeds grow among the wheat after the sowing. For Paul the Jerusalem temple is obsolete, an empty shell, what happens there is irrelevant. Its existence only serves to strengthen and perpetuate the ideology of the circumcisers.
Noah won. But the world was full of violence. Only eight were saved. Till the flood came it did not appear that he had won, the whole world was against him. John says that Gog and Magog besieged the beloved city, and compassed the camp of the saints. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. The end of the world here shows a siege on the faithful, not a Christendom in dominion. When the son of man comes shall he find faith on the earth? This is spoken in regard to the parable of the unjust judge, of people suffering persecution, not ruling over Gods heritage.
If Satan is not in control of this world then how could he have promised “all the kingdoms” of this world to Christ while he was tempted by Satan after the 40 days in the desert?
First John 5:19 clearly says: “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” Satan the Devil is most definitely the wicked one and he’s in control of this world!
@@sunnyjohnson992 If Satan is in control , then who is God ? Isn't Satan the strong man but Christ the STRONGER man ? Where do the Psalms say that Satan is in control ? They say GOD is .
@@JustinHonaker Gary is definitely not a Full-Preterist heretic. He still believes the 2nd Advent is in the future. As much as his Preterism is an abandonment of the Reformation, as well as early Church History and Historical Theology (eg. Apostolic Fathers of the Ante-Nicene era), I would still never make the false claim that he's a "full preterist". I would simply say he shows nothing but disrespect for the Reformation and their views on the Antichrist (Historicism; not preterism, nor futurism), though...for sure! *Soli Deo Gloria*
The man of lawlessness is the man that actually went into the Temple and blasphemed God by sacrificing animals in the sanctuary of the Temple and took into the Temple his flags In 168 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies sacrificed a PIG and set up an IDOL of a foreign god in the Temple (1 Macc 1:59; 2 Macc 6:1-2; Wars 1.1.2) This is the original abomination that causes desolation of Dan 11:31. TITUS DID THE SAME THING in A.D. 70 when Titus’ army worshiped the ensigns (foreign idols of Rome and Caesar) in the Temple (Wars 6.6.1) and sacrificed a PIG there as part of suovetaurilia. Not only did Titus mimic Antiochus Epiphanies’ original abomination that causes desolation, Titus also shares all of Antiochus Epiphanies’ epithets. Antiochus Epiphanies is the original “Lawless One” having been given this title in the second century B.C. (Psalms of Solomon 17:9-16). Antiochus Epiphanies is also called “the man, the sinner” (1 Macc 2:48, 62), and the “Little Horn” (Dan 8). Having mimicked (and even exceeded) Antiochus Epiphanies, Titus is ALSO called “the Lawless One” (2 Thess 2), “Man of Sin” (2 Thess 2) and “Little Horn” (Dan 7). Titus represents an antitypical return of Antiochus Epiphanies, the quintessential historical Jewish nemesis Josephus says that Titus entered the Holy of Holies with his generals in A.D. 70. 1 Shortly thereafter, Titus was worshipped in the Temple in A.D. 70 as was customary of someone declared imperator in fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4: “He sets Himself up in God’s Temple displaying himself as a god.” Josephus writes, “And now the Romans . . . brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator.”2 A metallic image of Vespasian and Titus was also worshipped at that time. Phalerae cum imagines, images of the emperor and his favorites, were regularly attached to the Roman ensigns at that time.3 Here we see that idols of Vespasian and Titus were also worshiped in the Temple in A.D. 70. In Revelation chapter 6 the man of sin was not revealed until the Lamb opened the first seal and he is described on a white horse going forth conquering and to conquer The Roman Emperor Vespasian was the first to attack the Jewish nation because he started his killing in Galilee in 67ad and then there was a break in the war Having achieved control of Galilee, the coastal region and the Jordan valley, Vespasian could have attacked Jerusalem from three sides. At that moment, however, a messenger brought remarkable news came from Italy: Nero had committed suicide and a senator named Galba was the new ruler of the Roman Empire. Vespasian immediately sent his son Titus to Rome to congratulate the new emperor, but before he had reached Greece, he learned that Galba had been lynched by his own guard. Two new pretenders, Vitellius and Otho, were engaged in a civil war. Titus returned to Judaea, where his father decided to postpone the war against the Jews and to intervene in the civil war. Vespasian and Titus were clever diplomats, who secured the support of several Syrian princes, the governor of Egypt and the legions along the Danube. In July 69, on hearing the news that Vitellius had defeated Otho, Vespasian had himself proclaimed emperor, claiming that he wanted to avenge Galba. He went to Egypt, where he cut off the Italian food supply. In September, the army of the Danube defeated the troops of Vitellius. In December, Vespasian was the sole ruler of the world empire. The man who had predicted it, Joseph son of Matthias, was released and received Roman citizenship and a new name Flavius Josephus. But then in 69ad Vespasian became Emperor of Rome and he placed his son Titus to lead the Roman Legion to destroy Jerusalem and the temple So there are 2 riders going in to war Vespasian and his son Titus going conquering and to conquer and the the red horse of war breaks out . The false prophet Judas of Galilee was the head and founder of the Zealots and the Pharisees and Sadducees and the Essenes Judas of Galilee was the proclaimed false prophet he told the Jews that God would intervene in the revolt against the Roman Army but Judas of Galilee was wrong So Judas of Galilee and the Zealots had held the Temple of God hostage for quite some time because they had kicked the priestly family out of the Temple and also murdered some of the priesthood Titus sacrificed a pig an Ox and a Ram he sat in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God he also did worse than Pompey and Antiochus Epiphany 1V who sacrificed a pig he entered into the holy of holies and poured out the daily blood sacrifices and offerings and brought into the sacred Temple two harlots and had intercourse with them on the Altar over the scroll mocking God with his sword believing he had defeated Almighty God Amen 🙏!
@ Dennis Mitchell Thank you so much. What you say makes way more sense than all the futuristic speculations dispensationalists want us to believe , when they themselves have no certainty at all because who really knows the future ?
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith: Chapter 26, para. 4, says, "The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church...neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." Notice the citation of 2 Thes. 2, saying that the "temple of God" is the church? Notice that the authors of the Confession knew Paul was talking about the 2nd Advent of Christ, and NOT the temple destruction of 70 A.D.? Notice that the authors knew the proper identity of the Antichrist/"man of sin, son of perdition"? Who are these Preterists really working for the benefit of? Same with the Futurists. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
@ Ryan Gallmeier In Revelation 11 John is told to measure the temple of God , the altar and those who worship there . It cannot refer to the "church" but to the Jews who were living under Roman domination . Notice that the temple was still there when John wrote Revelation and the things that were about to come in Rev 11 is this "And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."
@@framboise595 The "42 months" referred to in Rev. 11:2, 3 (cf. also Dan. 7:25; Rev. 12:6, 14; Rev. 13:5) refers to the literal 1,260 YEARS of Papal domination (538-1798 AD). Since the Reformation, Protestants and Evangelical Christians of all denominations have recognize the day=year principle in Bible prophecy (cf. Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Dan. 9:24-27...all of which use the day=year principle). Look at what Johnathan Edwards say about the day=year principle. Look at what John Gill writes about the day=year principle. Look at what Mathew Henry, John Napier, Adam Clarke..and countless other Reformation and post-Reformation writers have said about the day=year principle. You Preterists are making the exact opposite error of the Futurists: you both deny the day=year principle as applicable to the '1,260 day' time prophecy given 7 TIMES in Holy Scripture. The "temple" referred to in Rev. 11 is clearly NOT the literal temple in Jerusalem. If it were a reference to the literal temple, then John, as well as Jesus who gave John this Revelation, were both contradicting the Apostle Paul who said over-and-over-again that BELIEVERS IN CHRIST were the true "temple of the living God". It's a sad time indeed when otherwise bible-believing Christians are actually falling for Jesuit, Counter-Reformation Eschatology (Preterism and Futurism). Hope this helps. If you have further questions, let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
@@ryangallmeier6647 I don't see how it contradicts what Paul said at all. The Jews at that time were still worshipping in a physical temple that had not been destroyed yet. Rev 11 "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot " It clearly refers to a physical temple that was about to be handed over to the Gentiles (Romans) who devastated it. I know that the Reformers had a beef with papacy (and they were right) but seeing papacy there is unbelievable. And passing from 42 months to 1260 years is even more unbelievable .
The return of Jesus Christ is likened to the coming of a thief in the night. Two passages use the wording “a thief in the night”: Matthew 24:43, “Understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into,” and 1 Thessalonians 5:2, “You know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” But for centuries now Christians have claimed that Christ's return is days away! So maybe Christ is coming like a Senior Citizen using a walker:) I jest. But seriously the honest question for Christians is...How long is a reasonable amount of time to wait until the return of Christ before humanity moves on to actual taking responsiblity to solving world problems without religious input? I haven't been able to get an honest answer on this from any Christian...they dodge it with bible verses...rationalizations. I know the question is an uncomfortable one because it makes you question your faith. But for Christianity to be true the return of Christ has to happen correct? I know all the answers that the bible gives...but again I am asking human being to human being how long is a reasonable time frame for the world to keep the belief in Christ's return? 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years?
2 Peter 3:4- 3Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “ Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water,"…. The Lord knew that your question would be asked by many. My simple answer is it takes however long it takes. Why on earth would you think that this would make anybody question their faith?
@@susanthroop1279 The text is irrelevant. If designed humans were designed to be deceived. Observe the fact of how many millions of people believe Trump won the last election. Think about that!! A current event and reality that has deceived millions even though information and facts are readily available to the majority of the world. Now apply that reality to a story that took place thousands of years ago when people had no information available to them except the information provided by priests! This reality about human nature makes christianity's stories and promises irrelvant. "Free will" is an impossiblity when it comes to humanities penchant for deception. Being easily deceived is "basic" human nature! "Free Will" can't exist in those who have been deceived! If human beings were designed with this overwhelming flaw then the story of christ is irrelevant. Flying planes into buildings, forcing raped 10 year old little girls to give birth, voting for Trump all come from the exact same place...embracing deception. Deception was built into human DNA...why do you think a god would take away our "free will" with such an obvious design flaw? So the next time you watch as christians support thoses that deny the science of climate change or evolution or vote for those that do nothing about gun violence or vote for those that give even more tax breaks to billionaires remember it was all brought to you by the lie of christ.
They can't figure out the identity of the "sea beast" (Rev. 13:1-10; aka. the Antichrist), they certainly won't be able to figure out what its "mark" is.
Correction. The Jews were not the bad guys of Acts. Certain members of the Jewish ruling class were virulently opposed to the early Church, but that clique didn't represent all Jews. Remember, 100% of the first "Christians" were Jews. And Rome was not the Church's friend. Rome persecuted the Church to an extent that the Jewish authorities never reached. Please be careful about making blanket statements, especially considering the Church's damnable history of anti-semitism.
I get what you're saying and agree. Nero was a case in point. But he's talking specifically about a short section of time at the very beginning of the church.
@@chrislabrec we have the letter that is Gods inspired word. 2 Thessalonians says he was already there. So unless this dude is old, this already happened.
@@ThereforeGo St Paul did not say the Man of sin was already there, he only said the “mystery of iniquity” is already at work. That is not the same thing. It also say the Lord will kill him with the breath of his mouth.
@ Chris LaBrec This "man of lawlessness" erected a pagan idol in the temple and sacrified a pig to it. This happened at that time. It was the "abomination of desolation" Daniel talked about centuries ago .
Saved is tricky statements, Awake is a great mystery to I AM where God Kingdom always in is very difficult to figure outside yourself is very easy for saved debaters like babble seen and heard running away every Century, Looking inside yourself being where not seen, not heard, not over there or over there, Spirit enjoy does work while your outside not getting in way, you shure try to help grace and mercy is funny.
@@susanthroop1279 what is a antichrist ? To be anti something you have to know what you are the Thing that you strongly disprove of . It was only the Jewish religious leaders and also the Herodian kings because they were threatened by having their kingdom taken away from them .
It’s just an understanding of the definition John is using in that day. Distinguishing 2 people groups amongst Israel. Covenant Faithful who believe in Jesus and apostate who deny Jesus and the covenant wrath is coming upon them. 1 John 2:22-23. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be high priest, but was appointed by Him who said to Him, You are my Son, today have I begotten you. So Jesus was appointed the true High Priest at His Baptism. From then on any high priest was apostate and Antichrist. Also the High priesthood had been corrupted when Jason stole the position from Onias 3rd and after Jason the lineage of Zadok never took up the position again which was against Gods command in Ezekiel 40. So the High Priest was the covenant apostate head of Israel which would make him an antichrist and anyone who followed him would be operating under the spirit of antichrist. To oppose or put in place of is antichrist definition. Now this was written in response to a comment about “The Antichrist” but has the same context and understanding of who the man of Lawlessness would be too. Apostate Israel’s covenant leader would be The High Priest who of course is supposed to be political religious ruler of the day according to Zechariah 6 in preparation of Jesus Melchizedek Priesthood. He was the leader of all corruption and opposition in regards to apostate Israel and all the Apostles knew this person had already been replaced by Jesus, therefor his position was one of falsehood and lawlessness.
I don't agree with Gary's take. He says the man of lawlessness was alive during Paul's day and makes it sound like everyone knew who he was and that he was being restrained by Rome. Paul actually says that he is not yet revealed. And if this happened in 70 AD why is there no record of someone deluding all the people with "false signs and wonders"? This doesn't add up, which is why Gary has to get into "speculations". When you try to force this text into the preterist view it doesn't fit. A better way to view this is that Paul was simply expounding upon what the prophet Daniel spoke about, the "little horn". Be Bereans!
@@tomdooley307 The reference comes from Acts 17:11 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. So being a Berean means receiving teaching with all eagerness, but always testing them with what the Scriptures say, and in context here its the Old Testament Scriptures. So much of the New Testament was written expounding upon ideas and concepts that the Old Testament talked about, so we always have to view them in light of what has already been revealed. And not take them as stand alone ideas without an existing context.
'And now you know what is restraining' , 'For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only he who now restraints will do so until he is taken out of the way'. Someone was being restrained 2000 years ago by someone else, there is no way around that.
@@Jus4kiks The beast “was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the bottomless pit.” The beast, the little horn, the man of lawlessness, these all describe one figure, who is to come. And the Lord destroys him with the brightness of His coming. Now “a thousand years is like a day, and a day is like a thousand years.” The time is short.
Of course Rome wasn't the bad guys, how do you get Rome from a leopard (Greece), a lion (Assyria), a bear (Persia), and a dragon (Satan) Rev 13:1-2...??? The Angel of the Lord told Daniel that all of this was sealed up until the time of the end. Daniel 12:9... This is why no one understands it...
@@framboise595 What does the papacy have to do with Gog and Magog, Islam in the 6th century, Middle Eastern persecution, the last horse or the Middle East? You miss all of the verses in the bible that allude to Islamic persecution. What is nonsense is the Western perception of Christianity itself.
@@ourdailybread1099 I said Papacy because we're told to believe anything. Papacy , Islam... Nor Islam or papacy existed when John wrote Revelation. You really think that the churches at that tme would have understood what he meant if he had told about things far off in the future ? How does this make sense ? Revelation is not about the 6th century but events that were ABOUT to happen in the first century , during Roman domination.
@@framboise595 Sorry to have to break it to you, but Revelation is also about things that are to come still. Have you even read Revelation or actually study the bible? Are you a Christian?
The man of lawlesness was the Roman Ceasers of that time,also the first beast of Revelation the second man of lawlesness iß Islam and also the false prophet the second beast of Revelation it was the only two evilpowers that reign in the middle eàst and woùld lead to Jeŕusalems destruction.
Same thing with Daniel 9 490 year prophecy if it starts counting down from the rebuilding of the temple which is Ezra and nehemiah, well no matter which calendar you use the event is long since passed and Daniel 9:27 States the consummation comes with the Desolation which means the return of Jesus for the scattered remnant of the 12 tribes. I can't believe you guys have such educational skills, yet so blinded by the Light..
The revelation of the "man of lawlessness" heralds the coming of the lord , why ? Simply because he is that "man of lawlessness" as he is lord of everything , he is not bound by any law the reason he is called "lawless" , and because he is "lawless" , he is SINLESS for no law can accuse him because he is not under the law...and because he is the "man of lawlessness" , he hates the lawlessness of men because men are under the law , and they transgress the law...he is coming into the world to destroy sinners and their evil works...
Gary can’t have an eschatology anymore because he doesn’t believe any of the verses pertaining to the future. They’re all fulfilled in the past. There is no eschatology. In his opinion he is way off.
The question is: "Who is Gary DeMar?" Full preterist that on this very podcast said complete lie that Eastern Europe is becoming Reformed to feed his eschatological desires?
Joel and Gary, so you failed to explain the rest of the passage. 2 These. 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness Also, your views stand against 99% of Christian interpretation of this text when you say it (2 These. 2) has nothing with the second coming of Jesus.
Never begin a study of Bible prophecy with Mt. 24! That's NOT where the Bible begins, so we shouldn't either. High Partial Preterists have become OVERLY DEPENDENT on the Olivet Discourse, and yet, that's not the place to begin an examination of prophecy. Dan. 2 and 7 are the proper places to start. Both chapters outline the whole of Bible prophecy from Daniel's time all the way to the 2nd Advent of Christ and beyond. Gary is WRONG about the identity of the "man of sin, son of perdition" (2 Thes. 2:3-4). His view is an ABANDONMENT of the Reformation; he's traded in the Historicism of the Reformation and post-Reformation time period with Jesuit-concocted nonsense (eg. High Partial Preterism). Sad to see. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
@@susanthroop1279 hi Susan. I used to be a trinitarian because thats what most of us are taught, save for the oneness Pentecostals. But after reading the scriptures myself and learning that the Lord God is one Lord and Jesus is that one Lord who is God alone and also learning that the Messiah in Isaiah 9:6 says the man child to be born of a virgin is the mighty God the everlasting father, I ended up leaving the baptist congregation and trinitarian bible college i was attending. The Son is the of God is the Father manifested in His own flesh, no contradiction.
@@BetterThanGold2 I understand but the concept of "one" has different meanings. There's ONE body of Christ with many members. When you get married the 2 shall be ONE. Question for you. If Jesus is seated next to the Father in heaven how can they be the same?
@@susanthroop1279 my wife and i dont share the same spirit nor the same soul not even the same body. Ive heard of that analogy. I was in a trinitarian bible college :] Jesus is never seated next to His father. Youre referring to the figure of speech / Hebrew idiom that means position of authority. Because in revelation it says "Revelation 3:21 KJV: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." We see Jesus and His father in the SAME throne and Jesus goes further and says to the many members of the body of Christ, they will ALSO sit in Jesus' throne who is sitting in His fathers throne. So the mental image we get is everyone is lapping it ontop of one another. See!? Thats exactly what i mean by the trinity doctrine is very wacky
@@BetterThanGold2 Right but youre still one and you both have a spirit and soul and body. Why are you not able to accept that analogy. Don't you believe the bible has final authority on our doctrines as Christians? The bible clearly outlines that the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are 3 persons 1 God.
