The elder in the third movie is not the same elder as in the fourth movie, he clearly says the line "My predecessor" when he refers to the elder that gave John Wick the pardon.
I remember in John Wick 4 the current elder said that if he dies he will be replaced really quickly. Making it almost pointless to kill the High Table members because they already know who's going to be their replacement. But the position of the Elder does seem a little sus. Doesn't make much sense that John was able to find and kill him so easily in the new movie.
After watching your video I now believe that after the betrayal by Jihn Wick in chapter 3 by not killing Winston, the Elder was "replaced" for his lack of authority. The new one probably was related to him like the other leaders on the table. Either way, I enjoyed your thought-provoking video!
The Elder that John Wick met in Chapter 3 is different from the Elder from Chapter 4. If there can be betrayals for seats at the High Table like the one of Santino D'Antonio for the Camorra seat, there can be betrayals for the seat of the Elder too. If an Elder made a mistake, he could be killed and replaced by another, the way it appears to have happened between Chapters 3 and 4.
Except that Santino didn't personally kill her. He hired John Wick. Which goes to say None of the elders or high table seaters can kill one another personally.
I think the Elder position is taken turns by the Elder High Table family in the desert. It is likely the High Table was founded by Hassan-I-Sabbah during the formation of the Order of Assassins in 1090. The High Table is said to be older than the Aztecs as the Aztecs were formed in 1428. The Elder's family are likely descendants of Hassan-I-Sabbah's family.
@@IRLGigachad7718 In John Wick Chapter 3, Sofia's former boss, Berrada, tells John about the Hashashins and the order of the assassins when talking about the Elder with John. The High Table claims to be older than the Aztecs and the Hashashins are actually older than the Aztecs in historical context.
I like and agress with the theory that the eldar is a direct descendant of Hassan I Sabbah , leader and founder of the Assassins and high table. Great stuff my guy.
I think it makes sense to end the series with John becoming the new elder, everything seems to be leading to it and I think it would be a role that he would be happy with as it seems that other than a few people the elder seems to live alone. And he would be in the position to update the rules of the high table to make them less rigid and more open to passes being given because if they had been like that, to begin with then the High Table might have been willing to give John a pass for killing Santino on Continental grounds as it was Santino actions that brought about his death and the only reason John killed him on Continental grounds was because Santino tried to use the rules of the High Table to escape the consequences of the situation he caused.
To be honest. John Wick 4 left me empty. I was hoping it would be a war on the high table and explain more of everything. But instead it introduced more characters and more questions. While barley using the characters it already had. One thing I really wanted to know was how the high table worked. But the movie was like “you k*ll one and another will replace him” So if a crime family all gets k*lled another will replace them on the high table? It makes some sense but makes it so John can never accomplish his objective. Giving us the ending we got
The new Elder clearly states that he doesn't posess John's wedding ring so... who really has it? John doesn't even insist on finding the ring and perhaps he's never intended to do so. When asked for the purpose of his "visit" John Wick simply replies "My ring" which means he is there for revenge and the Elder seems to somewhat accept it while explaining the situation.
I had this idea that maybe he’s a remnant of the Order of Assassins, and their whole society and the Continental are like the culmination of the Order going underground and modernizing after they supposedly dissolved Maybe he’s the Elder because he’s a direct descendent of ancient assassins, whereas the High Table are all just crime lords
Imagine If there's an opposite organizations that also lurking in the shadow, an ancient order like Templar, having rivalry with High Table. Since the Elder itself in John Wick 2 is from the Hashashin Order of Hassan I-Sabbah.
Well, John wick's true intention and purpose is to completely get out of the organization. He wanted to live peacefully while cherishing her wife's memories more than ever. But circumstances doesn't allow him to be, like he's destined to be the Babayaga until he die. If you remember in John Wick 2, he almost got out because that's his deal with Santino once he finished his mission. The only problem is Santino set him up and turn John Wick into a fall guy telling the public that he won't go unpunished after what he did to Santino's sister. That's the very reason John Wick got so pissed off because Santino betrayed him and disregard his mark with him. The rest is history.
I think he is like a king in modern Europe, he has all the power but he doesnt use it and let the high table do everything. He is more of a symbolic leader than someone who decides how the whole organisation is run
If the elder we saw in part 3 is a decoy then the new elder in part 4 makes sense as the old elder could have made the deal with John without getting permission first and was delt with. If the true elder is in hiding somewhere the having them be a manager of a continental would be best as "no business can be done on continental grounds" so they'll be safe as threat of excommunication is serious to everyone, there's a lot of the worlds best assassins there so if someone goes Rogue they are there with the high tables blessing to deal with them even on continental grounds if needed and what better way to hide then to do it in plane Sight
You could tell he was a decoy. He didn’t have I’m the boss vibes or actions. He had puppet vibes which is why he lived. If he was the real one John would’ve them all
I luv all the movies but their loyalty an honorable chart of who can be touch an not seems to change a good 4 times in each movie,, so if the elder is the head he can make them stop or bend the rules but he's still keeps the pirate code somewhat. "no honor amongst thieves" which is why we do sometimes need rules or they do absolutely become uncontrollable savages.. but everyone ain't playing fair except for John damnit 😩
everyone has to follow the rules. It's just that the villains love bending or breaking them as they won't be punished for doing so. The Marquis was winning until he decided to violate the duel and get killed.
An Elder is a member of a counsel wherein the might be other elders of differing ranks. The one who is the head is called the Patriarch or master if you read manhua. So the elder is just a representative and a symbol of the high table. Hence the no guards as a power move to show they are so powerful that they dont need. Guards. The is has his own bulletproof soldiers , of that there is no doubt.
the elder said he only has freedom in death was foreshadowing. Because the deal with the table on the duel was still honored though he previously kiiled the elder yet supposedly was killed in the duel
It would be cool if The Elder’s real name was revealed in John Wick Chapter 3 and him being a descendant of the founder of the High Table (a fictional version of the Hashashin founder Hassan-i Sabbāh who was a powerful, badass, lethal, feared, and intelligent male Arab Muslim assassin turned crime lord named Ali and the very first Elder with dagger, sword, stealth, strategy, and combat skills) while The Elder is only a title that is passed down from generation to generation to the current leader of the High Table and also the current leader of a Arab Muslim crime syndicate (the first seat of the High Table which Ali was the leader of).
Na, the real Elder is the old guy in blue on the right. He's like the Greek from The Wire - you think you're meeting the man when you're just meeting a henchman
chapter 4 made me wonder, what if every person or rather every seat on the high table has its own unique role and title, and the elder isnt someone who sits above the high table but he is part of the high table and his role is essentially the law maker, he makes the laws of the high table, i thought of it because of the marquis i mean its most likely just a nick name but what if its similiar for the 12 people like that dude over there isnt 'just' "high table seat number 4" but he is the "book keeper" in charge of the history of the high table, and that chic over there is the "financer" in charge of all the funds of the high table all of them are in charge of one specific aspect that they are the highest authority on, and the elder is in charge of law making and keeping the peace within the high table, that would also explain his isolation, as the tie breaker and problem solver of the high table he only interacts with the other members of the high table when absolutely neccesary to avoid bias and or colaboration with other high table seats, similiar to a US jury is in most cases kept isolated to minimize the chance of influencing their decision by anything but the facts im probably wrong with this theory but i like it nonetheless, specifically because it gives every seat its unique niche which they control
I believe that John wick is a response to the alchemist he is at constant odds with his personal legend and only when he agrees to fulfill his destiny as the babayaga is he pardoned by the alchemist in the desert (elder) by resisting his destiny he is killing more and higher priority targets than if he were just to serve he is a bringer of death whether he resists or not
The elders are two completely different people XD. You can tell by the different voice, which meant that the elder we first met must've taken retirement or something else. Also what sounds more safer? Out in the middle of no where except for a rare few trusthworthy guards. Or an whole protected fortress where its saying "HEY IM HERE COME GET ME IM WAITING FOR MY DEATH"
John Wick has become the elder. That's why he fake his dead. Marquis once said there's no John out there, there is only John Wick the killer. John the loving husband is dead.
It sucks that in the universe it isn't the case that, The members of the high table, and the elder were in their position because they killed their way there and couldn't be defeated so easily, as if their families and such were made up of people who were the most dangerous individuals, who only let those they liked, or were as strong, to join their family. If only the concept of "high table duels" existed for the idea that if a member was ever tired of living that they could die at the hands of someone they believed to be an equal or worth of killing them (another member of the high table). Like the reason why "high table duels" were a myth (a john stated) is the fact that no one has ever tried to fight a high table member in a long long time, because of the fact the members could win in an instant. I could understand the very real possibility that one or 2 members of the high table were born into the position, or were so rich/influential that their assets afforded them the abilities to act as if they were as powerful as the greatest assassins, either through buying power or commanding it (like both D'Antonios, or the Marques), unlike someone like John Wick, who reputations was feared by his actions
your theory could be wrong, because on getting a token from John he decides on the spot without any delay or wait hence he definitely hold decisive power.
Despite the colorful settings, the big cast, high production costs I don't think the Wick series holds together as well as Breaking Bad and BCS. You just wait through the grim conversations for the next fight scene.
I believe the elder is like the monarchy of the British. They are there and have the whole respect as a main head but really do not get involved and let the seconds in command do the decision making.
So a elder is somewhat like a president, or a king. So even if the blood line is wiped the second in command take place. If there would be another movie he will want to destroy the game not just the player.
I love how the world seems so thoroughly thought out and they give us so little. Most of what we "know" is speculation. I enjoy it. I love how in the second movie, Santino has to give a number when calling in the hit. Winston calls accounts payable, too. His number is 00001. Sooooo. who is Winston?
@@vananon51 I haven't seen 4 yet. I've heard people theorize that he's really John's father but, I can't help thinking that Winston is the father of John's wife.
The reason was his life. You have to give up something in order to get something. He wasn't able to get it back (obviously) because he disobeyed the Elders orders
The elder is the ultimate adjudicator I think. It seems likely that the elders are chosen from favored assassin families. Accordingly it seems likely that they would come from what we now call the Middle East as the high table is ancient and assassination seems to be one of their most common services if not the most common. Also the elder he killed was not the same one from the last movie.
I was hoping the Elder was Gonna have more screen time this time then they changed the actor the other 1 was more intimidating then they revealed his gone with John's ring
I don’t think being in the middle of desert has anything to do with security, rather is to ensure they don’t corrupt their mind and judgement through endless pleasure as when you have complete power and riches, abundance lies in moderation. It’s self restraint, separating the animal mind from the human rule. Power corrupts so he surrounds himself with nothing and is celibate. Also the desert reminds you that life is sacred as it’s barren land and nothing grows, to remind the elder not to take life for granted so easily. Cause if he wanted to, he could probably end the world with nukes. So he isn’t securing himself by being in the desert, he is securing the world from his power. Nah I think the people living behind the organization are just living mundane lives. Cause security gives it away
The elder in John Wick 3 and 4 are two different guys which is really weird cause the movies are only like 8 months apart . Really weird thing to do with no explanation
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in the movie, the new Elder says "the other was replaced so as his ring" ... why? we don´t know. But the Elder doesn´t own or rule. I thing is someone like The Harbinger
It's a Persian thang!! Elder The Dude is just chillin' in the desert like his ancestors!! Haven't seen a political person killed in the J-Dubbed Universe...but some religious ones have been shot to hell...UH-HUH!! Blame The Nizaris...
I don't know about this theory chief. If it's historically accurate then the high table doesn't have anything to do with it. It's a faction of assassins' and they would select the leader. That's why Barada mentions "hasani" during the meeting. The high table that's been around for centuries in the movie is likely based on the real assassins' that lived a long time ago.
Elder comes from the original order of the Hashasihins. The order dates back to 13th century which laid the foundation of suicide attacks. Hassan Al Sabah. Read about him.
I thought the man John shot is not the elder I understood John was told by the man you are calling the elder in the 4th movie that he was not the elder?
My thing about this movie is that we never saw the antagonist fight… I wanted to see john actually fight him to the death instead of the plot armor kill.
This is the flaw in a movie storytellingand why reading a book, light novel or a comic is sometimes better than it. The how, when and why are often neglected.
the new Elder said they will just choose another. John cannot win by killing the Elder as they cannot release him, only bind him back to the Table. That's why it's virtually the first scene, to show that John cannot achieve freedom that way.
look to the old man on the right look at him deeply see what he is waring looks at how he is sitting . he has his second talk for him and play the decoy .. the ban in the chare is waring white but the guy on the right is in sky blue Arabian burnoose with gold also a Turban with blue . he is the elder !
Probably just a figurehead. But just because he's a figurehead, doesn't mean he can't make decisions on the fly. The adjudicator didn't need to take on Wick right away, and can just see if he really does try to take out Winston per the false agreement with the "elder". They're probably located in the desert because it'll be easier to pinpoint who is gunning for the high table since there isn't a lot of people residing in the desert that the assassin can hide in.
Havent seen this one yet but, It would seem that The High Table (in this fictional incarnation) is run by the "Ancient order of the Hashassin". The Hashassin (an actual real life historical organization pre-dating European royal Orders, and east Asian triads) historically existed, and may still exist to this day. Their leaders were not wealthy sheiks, but innocuous Bedouin tribesmen. They were supposedly eliminated during the Crusades. But really, who knows. It is from this middle eastern organization that legends arise about secret societies, killers for hire, the genocide of entire branches of political people, and elimination of an entire family-tree, etc...this is Biblical era stuff over 3000 years old. Anything that old will eventually evolve while keeping "traditions" sacred.
If you read this and you are not saved,I care about you enough to tell you that you have sinned against a Holy God and because of that you are under condemnation because you can't keep His perfect law or be righteous on your own and because of you can't keep His law or be righteous on your own you are stuck in your sin, and you will endure God's wrath for your crimes against Him only if you do not come to know and believe in His son Jesus Christ who died on the cross so the door to have vour sins forgiven could be opened and you receive salvation as a free gift, if you reject Him you will suffer for all eternity, turn from your sinful ways and live a life that is appealing to the Lord and brings Him Glory you don't have all the time in the world,tomorrow is not guaranteed,sin doesn't fill the void in vour heart or give you the satisfaction you want, it only digs your hole deeper, and increases the things your trying to escape
