Having just reread the two towers, Uglúk is a fearsome character and one of the only orcs we spend time with. He is bold and mighty, slaying many lesser orcs who refused to follow his orders. We don't know what hand he had in slaying Borromir but he claims that it was the Isenguard orcs that felled him. Even as the éored of Eómer persued him across Rohan, surrounded and with no chance of escape, Uglúk holds his company together and gives fierce battle to the Rohirrim with Uglúk himself only being slain by Eómer in single combat. He is a remarkable orc by any standard albeit not as cunning maybe as Grishnak or Gorbag, but ruthless and committed to his master (uncommon for an orc).
Hi :-) Could you please point me to the source regarding these Eastern Orcs that survived the downfall of Utumno? Once again, I am impressed by the depth of your research! That is a really strong picture of Sauron/Annatar being mocked by ancient footsoldiers of Melkor
@@MysteriesOfWesternesse That book continues to be worth its price, but it still rests on my shelf :D Thank you so much, I look forward to the next episode!
I always viewed orcs like Azog, Bolg, the Goblin King, Golfimbul, and especially Boldog the person as less characters or people, but more forces of nature, and harbingers of doom. Like the Terminator, Grimgor Iornhide, Darth Vader, or even the Witch King himself… those aren’t people, those are the living incarnation of the grim reaper. Like the Darth Vader hallway scene or Malekiths total war trailer, Your death was set in stone the they saw you it’s simply a matter of when get to you. And unless you are certain caliber, your dead, but just don’t know it yet. Azog died because he got cocky, Bolg was battling multiple armies at once, the Goblin King was generations past his prime, and both Golfimbul got unlucky, and Boldog found someone on his level.
If you want a look into what powerful Orcs can truly look like or be capable of look at Shadow of War. I’ve been killed by orc slaves and seen skinny orcs kill armored ologs alone. I learned true power and might makes right really means from that game. That game, for all it problems, all of its faults, succeeded where Tolkien himself failed in one way… the handling of the orcs.
I guess Saruman's Orcs were the most powerful though Orc-Men existed in the First Age. In "Morgoth's Ring - Myths Transformed" it is stated that men, under the domination of Morgoth or his agents be reduced to Orc-level of mind and habits and be made to mate with Orcs, producing new breeds, larger and more cunning. Saruman rediscoverd this or learned of it in lore. Tolkien clearly struggled with the origin of Orcs. They couldn't have been created by Melkor because only Eru could create life with independent will so they had to be corruptions. But they couldn't be men either because men hadn't awaken yet when Melkor returned to Middle Earth to a renovated Angband filled with Orcs. So, originally they had to be Elves. The Orc-Men (Uruk Hai) were the improved version :)
Indeed! We went over that whole problem with the multiple origins of the Orcs in this episode: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QvrQeBSNgjU.html
There is one other possibility. I have a theory that Melkor discovered that Aulë had created the Dwarves and Eru Iluvatar was going to give them sentience. Upon hearing this, Melkor, who did have the power to create fauna (while Aulë should have had that power), asked Eru for permission to create his own children. Eru had to say yes, but also had to keep it a secret. That is why the lore is confusing. The truth is not.
The one question I have about the original Orcs who were from the far East and bred in Utumno. Every map I have seen of Utumno has it in what looks like the Iron Mountains, which I think makes those Orcs the same as the ones in Hithaeglir. Maybe I am mistakwn, but I rhink you showed a map of those Orcs where they were closer to Rhûn. I just wanted clarification of the location of those Orcs.
@@MysteriesOfWesternesse Not exactly. My theory has always been that according to the original origin of Orcs Story, Melkor kidnapped Elves in Cuivienen and brought them to the mountains where Utumno was. There, they were actually corrupted and bred. I think that that mountain range stretches from Angmar to Gundabad and beyond, the northern portion being connected to Hithaeglir. So, my theory is that these Orcs never had any connection to Sauron himself and were never really allied with him except in purpose to rob the Free People's of Middle Earth of their wealth and power as well as to protect their own homes. So, I don't think Sauron had anything to do with the Battle of the Five Armies, nor any of the Dwarf-Orc wars, though he benefited from the weakening of the Dwarven kingdoms. I think this is why Sauron needed the Men of the East so desperately and why those Nine Rings were so important for him to achieve his dominance among the Men of that region, especially Khamûl. I think Sauron was able to rally what Orcs could survive the War of Wrath, bring them to Mordor, and start the construction of Barad-dür while breeding a future army of Orcs. So only these Orcs were loyal to Sauron because they have known him as Melkor's lieutenant since Melkor was imprisoned in Mandos for three ages and Mairon/Sauron remained loyal to Melkor and those Orcs know it, Orcs being the children of Melkor, not Sauron. So what I am intimating is that Only the Orcs who were gathered from Angband and followed Sauron to Mordor are loyal to him and that Sauron was never able to get the other Orcs to strategize and ally with him, which would include the Orcs in the Far East, if any are there at the end of the Third Age. I also think if he had been able to ally all the Orcs under his banner, he would have been invincible Sorry for the long explanation.🙏😅
No worries! The explanation was not too long, but it did make your point very clear. To summarise: it sounds plausible. Very much so. I would have to dive into Tolkien's notes in order to discover whether or not he had written down any details on this point in order to prove or disprove your theory, but it does make perfect sense. Thank you!
Are you saying "uruk" isn't a word that comes from Black Speech? It seems to be correct and the origin of "Orc." Uruk -> Urk ->Orc. Just my guess, but it is "a word in their own language," as Irjikor said.
The stronger orcs were the first corrupted by Melkor. Same as Elves, the first born were the mightiest (then they saw the lights of the 2 Trees), same as the first born men and same as the Dwarves. The following generations were all weaker and weaker. Also all of them were facing weaker and weaker enemies, so they were not as strong as the first of their races
killed by teenage Dain? Bolg is far more remarkable, him and his guard responsible for the death of Thorin and his sister sons, Filli and Killi. Bolg was only slain when Beorn in his great Bear form came to the aid of the Dwarves.
@@sjins1poolboy698 Firstly :Dain only killed Azog because he was trying to escape in Moria . Secondly:Azog killed Nain lll,of the house of Durin in a fair fight
@@talesoftheeldar8688 It was not at all a fair fight. Nain was exhausted from fighting in the battle while Azog came forward fresh from the rear, having taken no part at all. Then Azog tried to retreat back as he saw his army was loosing but Dain caught him and slew him. Detail isn't given but I don't think Dain threw his axe into Azog's back, but hey if he did that was Azog's fault for fleeing from the battlefield. I think its unlikely as Dain killed Azog by beheading him not something a Dwarf is going to be able to do running up stairs from behind (height difference is significant).
