Why 4K is no good for me, and possibly for you too (CAD, Engineers & Admins) 

I'm looking into the possibility of checking out a 40"+ screen to run at 4K with no scaling to see if this is reasonably workable

Now that this video is 4+years old, how do you feel about 4K today? Has software caught up? Thanks for the video.

Finally someone talking sense on monitors. Refreshing to find a video like this in a sea of more or less competent "journalists" / youtube reviewers catering to 14 year old gamer kids. Resolution, refresh rate, response times... that's all fine, but good luck finding a video addressing contrast, readability, eye strain (not all of us have visual acuity of a child any more) and reliability for a work environment.

I am an engineering student and this is the most satisfying video I've watch about 4K resolution. Autodesk, Solidworks, ANSYS... They all look poorly in the end if you want to be able to work on them. I felt so understood while watching this, lol.

I work on a 32" 4k (UHD) every day and EVERYTHING I use has looked perfect for a good few years now (Inventor, AutoCAD, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom, Photoshop, Evernote, Word, Excel, Trello, Spotify, Chrome, Nomacs, Monday). Granted, I don't use vault, it's crap they haven't got that sorted for the 2019, what were they thinking? Ideally 4k is paired up with a larger monitor, for my 32inch 150% is the standard recommended level of scaling (but it's perfectly usable with no scaling) and for a 40 inch (yes, there are 40 inch computer monitors) no scaling is used at all. You can think of it as a multi monitor setup without the bezels, or a ultrawide with extra space on the bottom and top. 32" 4k is 137.68dpi, exactly the same as a 16" HD laptop screen.

Bang on!! need more youtubers like you who do no talk only statistics which make no sense in some cases like this.. All out there go deep in theory of tech, gaming and content consuming.. People forget that there are still individuals who actually use their PC for actual engineering work loll... BTW Just closed 6 browser tabs of best 4k monitors.

I use a 4K monitor with Solidworks, 125% scaling with a K2200 Quadro card. No issues.

CAD users skip to 15:45 - 16-05.

I am an Architect using primarily AutoCad Architecture and Revit. For years I have had two 24" 4K monitors but recently decided to look into a single widescreen monitor (49") to have more uninterrupted real estate. The Samsung current model looked great but is clearly geared toward gaming, not technical documentation. Based on this video and your other wide monitor video I researched and ordered the Dell UltraSharp 49 Curved Monitor - U4924DW, Thank you very much for providing reasoned clarity to what had become a confusing purchasing process.

As the video is old, do I really need to know if your opinion holds up over these years? If so, could it be an option to use a 2.5k monitor?

Can we just appreciate how well structured and presented is this video? Keep up the good work man

I bought a 43" 4K HDR tv for Solidworks and Tekla before I watched this. I am here because I am selling it an looking for a Super Ultra Wide monitor instead. Everything you said is bang on. I wish I had come here first :(

When I watched this video I thought "Why are you complaining? Is this that bad?". But recently I have installed Inventor on my MacBook with 2880 x 1800 pixels on 15". Oh my God! Now I know what the problem is, and it's not even 4K. In Inventor it is not such a disaster, but it's still better to use scaling. As to Windows... nightmare. You are right, scaling doesn't really do good job in many cases. (Inventor installation for example) P.S. I would love to see something about "Big assemblies good practice" if it's possible. How do professionals/companies usually sorting their files? I am working on a semi-big project right now, and I've got myself thinking that all my project files are so messy. So that could be a huge help for new users like me. Thank you so much for your vids. Picked up a ton of useful info. Keep them coming 😉

Привет. То, о чем ты тут говоришь очень правильно и ты прав во многом, что профессиональные приложения пока еще не очень хорошо оптимизированы для 4К. Но ты не говоришь о не менее важной вещи - а именно о пиксельной плотности (PPI). И дело не в том, что 4К позволяет в масштабе 1:1 вместить в 4 раза больше, это итак понятно. И даже не в том, что, например, размерную линию архитектор или инженер сможет нарисовать еще тоньше, а именно в том, что эту размерную одной и той же толщины в пунктах (pt) будут отрисовывать в 4 раза больше пикселей. Другими словами смысл не в том, чтобы сделать линии тоньше, а более плавными и четкими. Это тоже самое, как два смартфона в левой и правой руке. Один имеет разрешение FHD, а другой 4К. На втором ты увидишь ту же самую картинку, только не увидишь пикселей. Также на мониторе 4К. Выставляешь масштаб 200% и радуешься. Особенно на чертежах, где есть окружности и диагональные линии это будет очень и очень заметно. Конечно же, это всё справедливо в отношении двух мониторов с одинаковой диагональю, но разным разрешением. Как выход из ситуации, если мы говорим об увеличении рабочего пространства, то верный шаг это покупка 43"/4К монитора. Тогда это будет привычная картинка в правильном масштабе 100%, но по площади как четыре 21,5" монитора. Мне очень жаль и не понятно, почему производители совсем игнорируют эту диагональ, не делая профессиональных мониторов 43". Ведь это работа с чертежами формата А2 в масштабе 1:1. Sorry for russian text here, below i used google translator Hello. What you are talking about here is very correct and you are right in many ways that professional applications are not yet very well optimized for 4K. But you're not talking about an equally important thing - namely, pixel density (PPI). And it's not that 4K allows you to fit 4 times as much on a 1:1 scale, that's understandable. And not even that, for example, an architect or engineer will be able to draw a dimension line even thinner, but precisely in the fact that 4 times more pixels will draw this dimension of the same thickness in points (pt). In other words, the point is not to make the lines thinner, but smoother and sharper. It is the same as two smartphones in the left and right hand. One is FHD and the other is 4K. On the second, you will see the same picture, only you will not see the pixels. Also on a 4K monitor. You can set the scale to 200% and you are happy. Especially in drawings, where there are circles and diagonal lines, this will be very, very noticeable. Of course, this is all true for two monitors with the same diagonal, but different resolutions. As a way out of the situation, if we are talking about increasing the working space, then the right step is to buy a 43 "/ 4K monitor. Then it will be a familiar picture at the correct scale of 100%, but in area like four 21.5" monitors. Its a pity and do not understand for me why manufacturers completely ignore this diagonal, not making professional 43" monitors. After all, this is working with drawings in A2 format at a scale of 1:1.

Is this review still relevant today September 2019? I’m in the process of upgrading 1080 monitor for rhino use. 4K 27” 16:9 are much cheaper than ultra wide 1440

In my opinion there is no good reason to use a high resolution display at all, as long as you need to apply any form of scaling. It is alright as long as the size of the display is bigger. Absolute minimum for a 4K monitor is 32", and ideally would be about 35-38". Any larger and you would need to move the monitor further away, so there is actually no need for anything larger.

for about .2 seconds i thought a spider was on my monitor

I do Cad work 10 hours a day 5 times a week. I have a 38'' 3840x1600 21:9 and I LOVE it.

I run two 21" monitors at work. I've always thought it'd be much nicer to run one 42" or larger 4k and get almost double the screen real estate with no seams. Though getting that approved by management would never happen. :(

I'm agree, 4k display is not totally adapted yet, so until this technology is not fully supported we can just test it.

1k, 2k, 4k or whatever k is less relevant - what is more relevant is that pixel density you get. You should get the right combination of physical screen size in inches and the resolution to go without any scaling.

For me the only time I'll use 4K is when the element size is the same as a 27 inch 1080 monitor, no scaling. Yes, that's a big screen. But what's the point of you can't see more in the viewport?

And two years later just apple realized that 4k is a bad idea, unless you can double the scaling properly... The reason why the imac shipped with 5k. Since 4 years...

So your problem is with Windows scaling and a small monitor? Yes 40+" is required for 4k to be useable - I used my 4k OLED for CAD briefly, it was great but hurt my eyes... (TV has a strobe which can't be turned off)

Got a new workstation with a 4k and HD monitor and I had to fiddle around with it at first until I was reasonably "happy" with the setup. 4k was set to 150%, HD to 100%. But since you change the windows/programs on the monitors, that only caused problems. I've now set both to 125%, which is sometimes too small for 4k and sometimes too big for HD, but the best compromise for me. Incorrect font sizes only occur to a small extent here with Inventor/Vault. I can't really recommend 4k either, put the money into a 3D mouse, height-adjustable table or something similar. Maybe two 2k monitors would work better here, i dont know.

Hi there, i'm using as my primary(and only) display a 43" Philips 43PUS6162/12, 4K Ultra HD. It's amazeballs...although i have some problems with icon scalling in Inventor or Autocad 2018, for my working needs it's just PERFECT. All the size you want, and after work you can enjoy a nice 4k HDR movie on it. Just my 2 pence.

I'm 100% confident the reason for scaling failing, is because most developers don't use the windows provided controls. Everyone recodes them from scratch, and lazily uses some windows features, so the window can't really be 2x scaled as an "image" either, as some controls inflate anyway. AutoHotKey has a "window spy" that detects windows standard controls that use the "windows message loop".

Yeah it was a nightmare with adobe stuff and autodesk maya. I like it upto 1440p but 4k was a aweful.

The difference on TVs isn't that big if you are not standing close to it or if it's not big enough, if you do game on it it's another story. (But from what I've seen all HDR TVs have 4k and there is no drawback about a higher resolution that is a multiple of 1080p) But it's a different world on monitors where you get much closer, I mean even on a smaller 24 inch monitor you can see how few pixels there are.

Hello, I'm standing before buying a monitor and how does the matter look now ?? because the movie is already 4 years old, has something changed since its publication? I will be grateful for your help

You're somehow right, EXCEPTING that LAST VERSIONS of these softwares (I am speaking of SolidWorks and Creo ... maybe the others too) are running very well on 4k resolution. Your stataments are perfectly right if you work with 4k monitor and 2016-2017 or prior software versions , but not anymore in 2018-2019 versions.

Good graphics and info, but please reduce your word count and pace. Too much gabble for RU-vid to transmit clearly.

Thx so much for your work! I watched this video in 1980 x 1200 at my 22" screen. I´m havin three screens at work, all are 1980 x 1200 @ 24". Best solution for me. Worst thing: Have to use SWX. Remembering good ol times, started with IV4 up to IV 2020. Missing the good stuff..... :(

I myself use 1920x1080 monitors for my CAD desktop workstation, without much interest in upgrading for this application. However, for other purposes, 4k is definitely in the running. Great information, thank you for your time!

This is silly. I have 2 4K screens which I set to 150% upscale. I do get much more real estate when I code, I get more space for tools in Photoshop and Premiere, and everything looks much clear, comparing to Full-HD. There are only one piece of software that I use and that does not upscale well - KeePass, the rest seems to perfectly work in these conditions. Not mentioning 4K movies looks way better. So the perks of 4K resolution outweigh its problems by a mile.

It sounds like you people over there are still using tiny monitors for CAD! It depends on the monitor size. Anything 16/9 and bigger than 27" is better with 4K for inclined lines.

An interesting insight into this minefield of Monitors. I have just bought an LG Ultrafine for my MacBook Pro. It is truly amazing experience in viewing = no brainer, go out and buy one if you can afford the cost. However, I have a bespoke laptop for CAD and BIM and the LG monitor does not work well. I could get it to work, but the price in doing this comes in just under the cost for a lower specification none-4k monitor. I am caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue --- So, this video was very useful to me. My Laptop runs a NVidia P4000 which is produces stunning images on the laptop's 4K screen (Prevail Pro Laptop with some tweaks). I find nothing wrong with the scaling for Autodesk products - it is fine for me. However, I do need a larger 'real estate' for BIM. That is where your good advice comes in. A less expensive monitor is therefore probably what I need. So, thank you for your time in making this video - it all made perfect sense to me if nothing else does during this history making moment in time. Many thanks for sharing.

I had a 4K I bought for using on my laptop and fund it unusable. Luckily, it got damaged during a move justifying a purchase of an ultrawide.

One discovery of mine after working on computer and all kinds of monitors for 33 years. The new IPS displays with led backlid are very bad for your health. They damage your neurone system and psyhic. From the slim monitor the only good option is CCFL backlid and not very big displays so you have moderate area to be eluminated from. Best size is 19" wide factor. The modern IPS LED also messes up with your blood pressure, amoled and retina are worse.

5:30 looks at image at 480p hm 4k dosn't look that much better. Switches to 4k: oh now it's a pretty significant diffrence. Of cource you need to look at it at 4k to see the diffrence.Well in actuallty I only notice 4k when I either look closly at a still image or look at text. Yes text that's the thins that sees the biggest improvment going to 4k it's just so smooth.

High resolution screens make a difference when you're closer to the screen (e,g, Apple retina displays) however at the viewing distance for a movie I can't see that you would really notice the the difference to 1080p - Ultrawides (1440) for personal monitor is where it's at - absolutely love mine!!!

and what is the situation in late 2021? Is there a change in your opinion for example running newer program versions? Or Windows 11? I am interested in HP u28, which is 28 inch 4k monitor, so I will have to use the scaling for sure.

Almost 4 years of this video, do you still have the same opinion about 4k monitor?

Hello everyone. I guess I'm not the only one interested in another popular CAD application that is Catia V5, so I have got a question for you guys, does anyone know about a channel devoted to catia?

I agree. And the situation is even worse on Linux. 1920 x1200 is the best resolution unless you want to play games or watch films. Sadly laptops are pretty much 1080p or 4K now.

Nowadays you do not pre-determine sizes in pixels anymore if you can avoid it. You define size-relations to other elements, physical sizes (such as fonts in PT=point=0.3528mm on the physical screen) or pixels for a defult DPI that are then multiplied with the actual DPI of the actual screens (multiple screens connected at the same time having different DPI, resolution, aspect ratios and physical sizes).

Need vs want…like the guy who has a shoe size of 9 but a 10 gives him so much more space, he buys size 11.

trying to use 4K back in inventor 2016 release on a brand new Del XPS 15' laptop was a bloody nightmare like trying to work wth a postage stamp and then they improved things with 2017 and is getting better with each release ',but Bugger my boots' . come Autodesk .

At last, some one that understand my problem. I use wacom mobile for drawing in photoshop, but is very frustating at 4k because very little umpresitions occurs in every brush stroke because the tip of the brush fall in random millimetrical offsets every time. maybe most peaple doesnt notice but I do. Then I down the resolution to 1920 x 1080 and problem solved.

4K on 32" is a blessing from God!

Good videos keep them coming

Do you recommend a 27" qhd monitor for cad?

Hello level entry professional. Thank you so much for this video. Is there a video you would recommend in 2022? Thank you

working off a 43" 4K monitor, never will I go back to 1080p!

thank you

Hey what kind of laptop would you recommend for an engineering the new dell xps or the precision 5530? I use Ansys solidworks and matlab. Thanks for your time.

Good to find these monitor reviews, especially the ultra wide format! My situation is a little different in that I simultaneously use a Mac (mini) and a Dell laptop and would like to share a single monitor. I'm doing that now with a 42" Vizio TV which is OK with the Mac for RU-vid but not so great for AutoCad and Navisworks off the laptop. I was considering 4k but now know there are better options! Subscribed!

Windows scaling is actually pretty good compared to Mac scaling.

4k works fine for me. Of course I'm using a 50" TV as a monitor.

I would never enable scaling ... a better solution is to move closer to the monitor or buy a bigger one. I'm perfectly happy with my 21.5" IPS 1080p monitor and 1280 x 1024 19" LCD, they have about the same pixel size. Soon I'll upgrade them to 4K, BUT i won't purchase a 24" 4K screen ... not even 32" ... IMO 40" is the minimum size for 4K desktop use, without scaling of course.

And then, there is the 5k iMac, which seems to look and feel better than any PC, even if PCs can use better/more powerful cards/CPUs/whatever.

6:50 I only use a scale of 150% on my 4k monior witch is large enough to still read stuff but still gives me more space on screen

Im a professional Cad guy, i cant use revit 2016 in 4k. Icons looks too small total mess... even in revit 2020 .. very sad..

How much curved monitors distortion affect for engineering use? I'd like to buy a curved screen, but I fear that it will be unusuable for application such as graphics reading on engineering

Would be great update this info to 2022

Most modern CAD program's now a day use ribbon toolbars (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TRhjOBhAPb8.html), designed to switch from tab to tab (like a game, hahaha), with a wide screen 30% of those tab is used by the screen and 70% is empty, so with a ultra wide u want to merge those tabs into one big one, also u need more height for all those big 64x64 icons. Old school Autocad with classic 16x16 toolbar icons are more useful for ultra-wide. Also windows with a menu not in the center of the screen like OSX will be result in a lot of movement with your mouse. And the WEB has more information in the height, so more pixels gives a more pleasant reading. In my mind a 32" 3840x2160 has the best sweetspot because of dpi (scaling) and pixel height.

After all this... What really matters is Pixel Dencity.

the video starts at 8:30 🙄🙄

Sometimes I forget to give my thumbs up after watching. Sorry. But I got it this time. Good info, thanks.

It seems like the real problem here is, Mircrosoft

My pixelMonkey origins started with Hasbro 30w Lite-Brite with pixel peg density of 1735.

Thanks for this video! Nice! Your advice at minute15:21 about GTX1070 and Quadro P4000 is still the same today? Or would you say today Quadro RTX4000 or 3000??? or something else??? I am really confused since my last research for a new mobile workstation (for CAD and VR). I would be very happy if you could give a hint... because it seems asyou need the same requirements as me.

AutoDesk AutoCad 2018 doesn't scale properly Windows setting, actually not at all with 4k screen. It will launch if 4k, but all the text and icons are simply much too small. Totally unusable.

32" 2K Benq monitor, best for cad!

I have to disagree with some of this. I use Autocad a lot and in the past when on a 1080p screen I would often have to print out the drawing to check the final details and overall appearance as the sharpness was just not good enough. It is a lot better on a 40 inch display which is what you should use most of the time. But if travelling and you cant see the details on a 15 inch laptop get some reading glasses.

Pan/Zoom were invented to solve this kind of issue - on any monitor ;)

You should of also mentioned, how you should run monitors, at there max resolution. So its not surprising, when you down resolution, it comes out blurry. For me, i was glad i went with 2k monitor, over 4k monitor, when i brought my last one. I agree 2k monitors are the best pc resolution, at this moment in time. On the tv thing, i doubt at 10 feet from the tv, most humans, cannot tell the difference between 4k, and 1080p. Most people eyesight, is not great. Only people with really good eyesight, will really be able to tell the difference, between 4k and 1080p. When 1080p was the only choice, i doubt people could tell the difference between 720p, and 1080p at 10 feet, from there tv. There will be a limit, to how much defintion, an average person can see, and that obviously gets less and less, over more and more distance. I doubt in the real world, most people could tell the difference, between 4k and 1080p, at 10 feet on there tv. For what reason, we all see the world, slightly uniquely, and our eyesight quality, is unique to us. Like how a snooker player, probably has far better eyesight then the average person. ie the target ball, will be much clearer, and bigger for them, then the blurry thing, it is to most people. Thats with the best eyesight that everyone possibly can have, and thats a very unique thing. If snooker, was just down to everyone having the same eyeight, then glasses should make sure everyone has same eyesight. But that is not the case, as there must be more to eyesight, then just what people do in eyetests. People that can play snooker very well, must have a higher degree of clarity of eyesight overall, then most people. That is beyond what glasses can do for everyone. There must be a degree of eyesight, that is unique, beyond what people define as how good eyesight is. Snooker players prove this. How everyone interprets what comes in through there eyes to there brain, must be unique. Although there obviously is common things we share, there must be parts of the seeing through your eyes, and your brain interpreting, that is highly unique to everyone. Snooker players, are evidence, that some people have something more going on into there brain through there eyes. This cannot be defined, as its probably beyond the scope of human measurement to define. This is something that shows, our eyesight, although we share common understanding of what we see, our eyesight is all unique to everyone of us, and what makes it unique, cannot be defined by humans ability to measure. So like i said, yep, i agree 2k monitors are the best, for pc. I do not agree on tv resultions, as most peoples eyesight, no matter if they wear glasses or not, will be able to tell the difference between 4k, and 1080p, at 10feet. The same was shown, between 1080p, and 720p, over 10 feet. Plus you cannot factor, in things like upscaling, that all tvs do. So when you watch a 480p vid, on your tv, your tv today will be helping to upscale that video. So its not really a 480p vid anymore on your tv.

my pet peeve is matte monitor screens. I hate how chalk bleachy they look. If anyone knows of a very large curved monitor with glossy front....

I respectfully disagree with your evaluation. You're using a 4k gaming laptop - That's hardly an objective evaluation - especially for using the resolution for a business. 27" or less in 4k is useless for productivity. I'm using a 40" 4k screen with windows scaling disabled (100%). It's real estate-wise it is 4x 25in 1080p screens perfectly welded together. Multiple windows, nothing maximized, and I can use a vertical aspect for the web/documents, horizontal for CAD. Nirvana.

Thank you, good info but a bit lengthy :)

That spider raised my heart rate...

At least put Timelime for the Topics in Video to not waste People's Time hearing basic Technology Things which is off topic.. Explaining 'what' it is doesn't achieve the of asking 'why' so next Video try to cut it in 2 Videos.. just for better Content Quality.. and more Success

Same issue with my surface book 2 I run it at 1080

Is this still viable info? What about using a 43 inch 4k monitor with screen splitting software like this LG Onscreen Control: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YHtz9Dkalfo.html&ab_channel=WSGF Seems really nice. My new employer asked me what monitors I would like for my new office.. Still in doubt if ultra wide or 40"+ 4k is the way to go for the primary monitor..

wow, don't need to sent lot of money on 4k led

8 mins into the vid, finally see the reason why. Damn.

My Alienware 15 r2 with 4k and GTX 980M sucks with Revit 2020

Lol, it looks like his puking out them images

Next time, please show more of the screen instead your face, We want to see the monitor. Not your face. Thanks.

blablablablabla

But what about the new scaling system on windows?

this video only makes sense if you're dumb enough to run a tiny screen in 4k. if you're being reasonable and going 30+ inches on 4k display you dont need the scaling... you're wanting more real estate.

You're wise to specs and utility of stuff, and meanwhile, millenial kids would shrug this video off, say "I dont care lollll", continue blissful ignorance, and then spend 5 hours staring at selfies and nudes on snapchat. SIGH.