Why a fence brought people to the streets 

The weirdest thing in my opinion is that there is actually a fence around the park already. Thus the discussion has no sense from the beginning. The question should rather be "Should we close the gates at night?" (or maybe "Should we fortify the existing fence?")

the rhyming version of the phrase at the end that I've always used is "Buy it nice or buy it twice"

Yesterday a human leg was found in the more peripheral and quiet Volkspark Prenzlauerberg: let's built a fence around it too!!

fences sometimes turn into walls in Berlin, so it's a perfectly reasonably reaction I'd say

Ironic how iron curtain killed the train station and a fence is killing the park.

My own experience from once crossing the park was that people were openly dealing there in broad daylight. And regardless whether there is the park when I used the U-Bahn station I was openly approached by a dealer IN the station. Certainly one of worst spots in Berlin.

Honstly from someone whos parents used to live there and still knows a lot of pepeole around there it acualy seems to have gotten better. but the damm genrtification made it a bigger issue

It does feel like they are simply pushing the problem to one side rather then addressing the problem.

Very well done! Are you working on a video about Frau Klette? It's been pretty huge news in Germany, but kinda drowned in international press, among all the other trouble around the globe.

i get pretty much all the infos from arround germany from you. Ironic is, that i am german, living in germany. well 😅

Similar discussions happening about Primrose Hill park in North London; which had some nighttime issues including criminality during the pandemic (it was one of the few open spaces available in the evenings where people could sometimes legally congregate) But not as bad as Görlitzer Park in Berlin it would seem

As a Berliner, I"m for the fence. I once cycled to this park by accident and a gang surrounded me and asked if I want anything in English. I was sure they wanna rob me, but luckily they were only interested in selling some drugs (I was just a teen back then). Having a lawless place attracts even more crime. I can understand that closing the park at night isn't the final solution, but combining it w. better treatment of drug addicts and better monitoring of crime hotspors, could definietely help.

How would they even plan to keep criminals away and allow law-abiding citizens in? Having guards at the gate to search everyone wanting to enter the park?

Can't have a crime rate at night in a park if people can't get in the park, right?

Ah Kreuzberg, the treasure that keeps on giving lol

Yeah, I've passed through Görlitzer park with my dog to get to the dog park inside of it. It felt unsafe for sure, even during the day. It's a messy situation, I don't think a fence would solve the issues that make this area what it is

Disheartening that more and more politicians are looking to fences and walls to solve problems

A video about fences with a disclaimer at the begging? Blimey!

Good on Berliners for objecting to this: inclosure of public spaces in the name of "safety" has been going on unchecked in England & nobody seems to have the confidence to oppose the authorities' designs. There's just no Blitz Spirit left: if we make concessions to criminals, then we're allowing ourselves to be controlled by fear, and that is not morally right. The number of crimes does not give the full picture of how safe a place is: if the crimes are predictable & easy to steer clear of, then it is safer. Fencing the parks is not going to achieve what I believe every city's goal should be: a provincial Norwegian city wherein everybody can go anywhere at any hour without worrying about crime. I find the police in most western cities don't seem to be doing much to get us any closer: they're not fighting the good fight, in other words. Alas, it's cheaper & wins more points for the governing party to mildly inconvenience criminals as a form of revenge, & never mind the collateral damage. The whip remains in his hand who wields it while the carrot is eaten & consumed. Destruction is quick, easy & exhilarating while creation is slow, laborious & dull.

Sir Humphrey Appleby explained it well as "politicians logic". Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do it.

Dear Andrew, feel free to come to Repair-Café in Schimborn at April 13th, I'll gladly see what i can do about that blue light of yours!

fences and walls ... especially Berliners should know better

Closing a public park at night is very common in most places I've ever been to. Increasing police patrols and dealing with the social issues and causes are a lot less common on the troubles that result.

Firstly, it's forbidden to enter a park after dark in Berlin. Secondly, most Berliners (actually anyone living in a city) knows parks are dangerous places after dark. The real problem is that Berlin doesn't have enough police. They've tried to remedy this with an "Ordnungsamt" that has taken over policing parked traffic. But this has still not been enough.

I’m pro fence altho yes it may be just treating the symptoms you can’t solve the big root cause in a day and so you mite as well try to minimise the symptoms. Also the closing of the park may increase crime in the roads but with an increase in police patrol in the area perhaps they could catch the crooks

Maybe (scheduled) legalization of some stuff will change the game.

Would there be alternatives that could be used instead? Greater surveillance, whether by person or camera?

Wer kennt noch "Maschendrahtzaun"?

The uncomfortable reality of the situation is that the park and surrounding area are considered 'territory' by drug gangs whose street-level dealers and enforcers are largely young African men. If you walk through these areas alone even in the middle of the day (again, the park *and* the street), you will be approached by such men who will attempt to sell you drugs. Sometimes this will happen from streetcorner to streetcorner, and sometimes even with a police car within view of the proceedings. I have intentionally diverted my path multiple times to avoid big groups of these people (borne of the uncomfortable experience of *not* having diverted my path). Residents of the area will tell you that mothers pushing baby carriages will stop to buy drugs in the middle of the daytime, though I must admit I haven't personally seen that. It is a shame. The park itself can be quite lovely, and when it is a special day is often filled with families of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds barbecuing and pursuing peaceful leisure. But on an "average" day, if you are not part of a group of three or more young strong men, the chances of being harassed by entrepreneurs of a particular trade and migrant background is quite high. The fact that these streets are often stenciled with exhortations, naturally in English, to "stop racial profiling" while police only intervene in the merest fraction of offenses which happen sometimes quite literally under their noses is also a bizarre experience, and one has to wonder how many of the charges for unlawful stay stem directly from the drug-deal arrests. What allegedly happened to the young lady in the park at night is horrible, but if the authorities and the community do not come together to curb this problem, it will keep getting worse until someone comes along who will solve it (and that in a way the current authorities and community may well not like). I sincerely hope these protests can lead to constructive community-building that helps to eradicate the drug gangs and leaves the area a safe and pleasant place to live and work for all of its inhabitants and visitors, from wherever they hail.

"Buy cheap - buy twice" sounds in Russian "скупой платит дважды".

Berliners know best that walls & fences don't work the way intended...

They are no fans of this fence! 😉

It's really disappointing, how the politics works. I mean, no one is arguing about the crime statistics in the area and that it is exceptionally high, but the trigger for action is this one weird case, and doubts about this one isolated case, which for itself has no significance on the level of public decision making, can put on hold all the measures to solve the real crime problem.

Simple solution….Decriminalise ALL drugs. Yes, some of these drugs do harm the users. However, nowhere near as many people are harmed by them as are harmed by the so-called ‘War on Drugs’. A ‘war’ that can and could be never be won and has claimed countless more victims and has caused more societal problems and suffering than the drugs themselves. This is not done because there are too many vested interests in perpetuating this ‘war’…..and their interests are not the wellbeing of the users.

"Buy cheap, buy twice." Czech version (translated): "Were not rich enough so we can afford to buy cheap things."

Didn't Germany change the cannabis laws recently? If it's legal and easier to get that'll reduce the drug dealers' power. And a fence or gates will prevent some crime, but they're not too hard to get over, so there'll still be some people there.. Complex situations... More policing, more alternative systems and help for people to not get addicted in the first place. That's a start

in a nutshell: the protesters are right. Once you fence a place, criminality will just move to the surroundings. It's a complex problem where the State is trying to apply a simple (and cheap) solution, instead of putting more policemen on the streets with a law enforcement strategy. And preventing drug abuse is even better, tackling the root cause. EDIT: reading the comments about gentrification and such, I wonder if there's anything related to airbnb...

Would a gate make it also more difficult to enter the park? I mean that you have to walk a mile to the entrance? And I don’t see how closing the park at night would make it safer. Unless all the crimes are committed at night, but I doubt if that’s the case. Decriminalizing the use of drugs can also help. In The Netherlands addicts get their drugs, methadon and heroin, on receipt. There are still drug crimes, but not so much on the streets, like it was in the seventies.

One should take a look at the situation in Neukölln when discussing a fence around Görlitzer Park. Tempelhofer Feld has been fenced in since it's been opened to the public, and it is one of the safest parks in the city. On the other hand. Hasenheide Park is open all night It's a crime and drug hotspot and a constant nuisance because of noise, littering, and destruction of plant life, and hardly less dangerous than Görlitzer Park at night. I have to say, while I am generally all for many of the more liberal approaches Berlin takes, I have to agree with the idea that fencing in Görlitzer Park is worth a go. It's pretty obvious that a large, dark park at night is a lot harder to keep safe than busy neighbourhood streets. And I don't think that drug dealers will crowd the streets of Kreuzberg any more than they do already if the Görli is being closed at night, since their customers won't hang around there either. Görlitzer Park is not really a hard drug scene hangout, it's more the party people and adventure tourists creating a market for recreational drugs. They'll get their stuff at one of the other spots infamous for drug deals of that kind. Most of which are easier to control. You can't really end the drug trade by fencing in Görlitzer Park, but at least it would stop more serious crime in dark hidden places.

Ah, Berlin! The cesspit that keeps on giving!

It seems extremely dodgy to put people peacefully existing in a park, but just don't have a visa in the same category as a gang rape.

Build a wall!

Now the people can't walk in the park at night because it's dangerous, in future they can't walk in the park at night because it's closed off ...

Many British parks in big cities are closed in the nights. They are neat, well-kept and clean.

I don't know anything about the park in question. But parks with fences remind me terribly of South Africa in the 70s and 80s of the last century. In Pretoria access was strictly controlled. Black people were only allowed in if they were the nanny to a white child, or, of course, if they worked there as gardeners and the like. Exceptions weren't even made for road races (who were open to all runners regardless of the colour of their skin) - if the route led through a park, Black runners had to run around it.

6:39 - I actually prefer to buy cheap, buy twice. Generally when you buy something new you don't know how to use it properly or whether it's really something you need and are going to use a lot. If you use it enough it'll inevitably break and THEN you can go out and buy something better made fully knowing what you need from it and how it fits with your routine. If you don't use it a lot then it's clearly not something you really need much and you save money overall by not wasting it on expensive stuff when a cheap one would've been fine for your limited usage.

Did some people take offence (geddit?)

I went to Berlin for the first time in 2015 and Görlitzer Park and its surroundings was already considered a place to be avoided by tourists. About the case, I saw some right-wing propaganda about it, of course blaming it on immigrants in general.

I have a slightly different view. Cheap or expensive if it's good or even a great product always buy a second. As for the primary subject at hand. Sometimes being the government is a monumental undertaking. Even during the reign of the Nazis. There were a few serial killers that the police had to catch. Most people think during that time crime rates were very low but again that belief is the result of propaganda.

Fenced and a sign "closed from dusk to dawn". Every park in my area where I live in Washington State.

why would anyone want to move to Russia?

Actually the proper question is : did the people involved in this crime have a permit?

I don't see how a fence or having closing hours is going to make any difference. The criminals will just move somewhere else, like the stations, a bridge or wherever they see fit. They need to sit down, think things over and create a plan with solutions for the causes of this problems. I lived for a few months in Kottbusser Tor... Worse spot in Berlin I have ever seen. Not dangerous, but GOD IS AWFUL. However, police was always around, there were services helping the addicts, and I never saw actually dealers or criminals working in the area. I walked at night just fine (ignoring the filthy station) and it was a lively spot. My point is: Find the ways to help solve or contain the problem. Banning and fencing stuff doesn't help.

maybe Berlin needs his own Nayib Bukele

Sehr schön um den heißen Brei herumgeredet.

I won't be worried until Görli looks like Kensington ave, Philadelphia or Tenderloin, SF.

In the US the Democrat party insists that diversity is “our strength” Hah!

While you seem to say something like /əˈledʒd/ ( 5:12 ), I usually say something more like /əˈledʒəd/. Just an interesting observation.