What I hear is they successfully lowered the standard so much that what was once considered normal is now a “premium” experience they can charge more for.
The thing is that they’ve also made it cheaper for economy. Keep in mind in back in the day only the rich could fly. So when you say they keep lowering the standard it’s because they are making it cheaper to fly. It may not always look like that due to inflation.
@@Charles-yw8up Compared to 1980s', yes. Compared to 2010's, no. The economy is the same price with worse standards. The normal economy in 2010's are now premium economy and more expensive.
Well, as part of the disappearing “middle class”, we got moved further and further back to the rare of the airplane over the years. Because they are installing more and more premium seats. They even have curtains so you can’t see the premium side of the cabin. This is especially true for oversea flights. I feel like Jack in Titanic.
They’ve made the “standard” seating so unbearable that people will pay extra to avoid it. For economy class passengers, you’d be more comfortable on Greyhound!
Oh totally. Why do you think we literally have the joke that standard is basically ‘scum class’, because that’s how the seats treat you. I don’t regularly fly, but if I did I would still very much prefer and definitely invest in the higher class seating just below business. I don’t really think most of the majority of people need to go above that.
@@mm6461 The cabin crew still deserve respect. Their #1 responsibility is to keep us safe. They work in an environment almost designed to explode, but yet manage. Hats off to them.
Think about it this way. Flying is so much cheaper now. If we want a better experience we pay for premium economy or business. When you look at the costs business class is similar to what it cost to fly back in the day.
I remember a few years ago with a regular plane ticket you would get a comfortable seat, free checked-in bags with more weight limit, free carry-on bags, free seat selection option, free food onboard. Now you have to PAY for everything. Airline industry is the most aggressive corporate in taking advantage of consumers in recent years.
This is actually making me laugh, because it's true. When I was really little, I was used to being given a meal on plane flights. The first time that didn't happen, I asked the flight attendant when we'd get to eat. My parents laughed because I apparently sounded like a spoiled little princess. I was genuinely just surprised! I didn't know because no one told me. When a kid expects something as part of a routine/pattern, they can't be blamed for not knowing. Lol
Maybe because you’re flying low cost carrier now, which does charge everything. The usual full service carrier still give free meal, free luggage, in flight entertainment, and the leg room is also better
More comfortable seating solutions are available but airlines won't buy them. The key is to not make passengers too comfortable because it will cut into sales of business and first class.
@@mrm7058not true. You're talking out of your ass. 80% of their profits come from business/first class passengers. Economy passengers are almost irrelevant as is difficult to fly them at a profit. Adding more economy passengers doesn't make sense.
Making passengers pay for checked bags leads to full overhead carry-ons. As a result, the personal bags must go under the seat in front of you instead of overhead. The end result is less leg room making premium economy a little more worthwhile.
@@geocam2 If most people can't afford to fly any more, that would also result in very limited flight connections for those who can still afford it. I think the main reason for crowded airports is security.
Booked a flight the other day and for some airlines it is now more expensive to bring on a "fullsize" carry-on (max 54 cm) than it was to check the equivalent luggage.
At least in the US most airlines will gate check your carry-on for free. It's a lifesaver in winter flights when people stuff they coats on the bins alongside their bags.
Even with current rail it works well. I took the Amtrak like a week ago. Did a round trip between Michigan and Colorado. Was in coach between Dearborn Michigan and Chicago. The seats were not too bad, and the best part you can get up and walk around if you want. From Chicago to Denver I had a roomette, while a bit small, it worked OK for just me.
@@Jacarroll417 Yes, new high speed service in Florida will open soon (adding to the existing Brighline route). CA is working in a watered down version of its originally planned high speed project which has had numerous delays. AMTRAK is planning more high speed rail and there is a push to make Chicago a high speed rail hub. Brightline is also looking at an easier to build high speed line from Las Vegas to California that will connect with the California project. But airlines are still planning to increase the number of flights because these projects are far from completion and the airlines would rather not see them built.
Its frustrating here al9ng the east coast. If you have a long overnight train ride They charge you as if its a hotel stay, not a train ticket. It can cost way more than a flight ☝️👀🤷♂️ i looked this year 😢. Like I get it, it might cost more for a cabin than a seat, but it shouldn't be the same price as a hotel stay
I'm a large man, and I recall a flight I took about 35 years ago. As I was checking in, the airline offered me a seat with extra legroom for $40. I accepted their offer and paid the fee. When I got to my seat, it was the middle of three seats, and the two other seats were occupied by men just as large as me. We all looked at each other with resignation, and spent our 5 hour flight negotiating shoulder shifts since there wasn't enough room for the three of us to sit straight across.
@@brentschmogbert- A shoulder issue would lead one to understand this as a width problem, not height. On that note, I see where our OP was vamboozled… “airline offered me a seat with extra leg room”. Legroom certainly doesn’t mean more shoulder room.
And its the airlines that are preventing that from happening. Article: "Southwest’s history of lobbying against high-speed rail surfaces in wake of flight cancellation fiasco."
@@thedumbaviator5536lmao 2 hour check in/out and being 1 to 2 hours early in the airport and waiting for an hour or so for your baggage in the carousel. use your common sense.
the us wont make it happen, because its too "public", the private industries that rule the us (car, airplane, insurance) will never let it happen, also people are too brainwashed
@@kimannepark4709 and then another 1 to 4 hours if there are unruly passengers also known as Karen ruining the flight.A lot less chance of that happen on the train
There was one significant understatement in the video: Business can cost up to four times an economy seat. The truth is that it can easily cost 10x more and I doubt that is the limit.
There is a huge difference between flying an Asian airline and flying the US airlines. The US airlines have no shame in trying to make a buck in the short term. The seats on ANA and Korean are superior at every level to their American counterparts.
@@VanillaMacaron551That’s reasoning from the converse. If US airlines are arguing that financial considerations are “forcing” them to making economy class ever more miserable, airlines in Asia like ANA and Korean Air putting the lie to those claims. That there are also crappy airlines in Asia is irrelevant.
I, as a 6'4" man, was not cramped at all on Singapore Airlines' nonstop from JFK to SIN. Granted, I did have an extra legroom seat, but this was still EXTREMELY refreshing.
I hate flying. I’m 6’4 and I hate the entire process of being crammed into those little seats like sardines. I wish Congress would step in and regulate airlines.
It'll cost you though, like paying business class for the coach itineraries you'd be booking. Those steep fares back then were how the "golden age of flying" seemed so luxurious.
No thanks. I'm not interested in paying 3x as much with 2x less scheduled flights. Fork over the money for business class, more than plenty of room there.
Most airlines are missing the boat on a critical element. Width is important for some of course, but most airlines have gone to a seat design that makes your rear end hurt. Yes, hurt. You see it constantly with people twisting and turning, and bumping into their neighbors with their knees to try to minimize the pain. This is unforgivable, discomfort is one thing, but actual pain is horrible. That is why I no longer fly on American, Jet Blue, and Copa... and I minimize my flying on LATAM to those routes when there is not other good option. Delta is among the least painful ones but even they are going for thinner padding.
I challenge these airline execs to fly 6+ hrs in their economy seats. It sure is unforgivable, and I’m 5’5, but those seats are hard and makes my bum hurt. And the premium economy for domestic flights just give a little more leg room, but same terrible seat.
@@BB99234KJ Same, but have had the fortune and strategic use of reward points to cash out an incredible lie flat and culinary business experience on Turkish Air back in 2015. That said.... it took me months of planning to ace that for max use of x amount of miles... and the economy option has simply become horrendous and painful for anyone over 180cm or 6'
I can foresee that within the next several years, airlines will have planes that are essentially Business and Premium Economy class only, primarily aimed for much longer flights than now. With intercontinental flights exceeding 16 hours on 777-8/9, 787 and A350 models, better seating quality is a *MUST* , especially to counteract the issue of deep vein thrombosis (DVT). Even Economy class seating for such very long flights could improve, due to potentially new ICAO regulations requiring roomier seats on flights over six hours long.
There is already La Compagne that offers only business class seating. Further JetBlue are pushing full plane mint cabins. People are actually ok to pay for select routes like a JFK London or Chicago Frankfurt
This video makes me sick. United Airlines and American Airlines are a disgrace. The 15 hour flight from LA to Sydney is a joke, they should be charged with inhumane conditions for the small amount of leg room these greedy corporate pigs have given us.
@@mm6461 what do you mean? I flew this same route with American LAX to SYD and it was amazing. I was in seat 1A in their flagship first class seat. I don’t know why you are complaining about legroom I thought I had plenty. If anything the suite could’ve been a bit more private but apart from that I’m not sure where your “inhumane conditions” you’re speaking about is. At the end of the day, you chose to sit there and you chose not to sit in business or first. Don’t complain about things when the solution to your problem is to place yourself into a better environment (cabin).
I'm 5'11, 160 lbs. I've been lucky enough on a handful of flights to have the entire row of seats to myself in economy. It's not something happens often but I love it when it does. Stretching out across 3 seats while still paying for one economy seat is better than paying extra for upgraded seats.
Just flew delta one (full lay flat) It was extremely comfortable for the 9.5 hour flight I took. It’s honestly had to go back, I rather travel less and have a more premium seat than more travels with economy or even premium economy.
What we really need now is more comfortable experience of arriving to the airport and getting to your plane and the time you spend there. I hate how it's gotten standard to need to be there 2h in advance and I really hope the whole process can be speeded up.
I really do hope one day it won’t have to be that way anymore and we don’t have to arrive two hours before the flight. I mean obviously makes sense to arrive ahead of time and they really should have a particular cap, but it should be really more of an hour, and not two hours. Of course with terrorism always a threat, that’s the reason I guess why they need to have all these lines of safety in the first place. Until that threat has gone, I think the big delays in airports are going to be with us for the foreseeable future.
@@danielwhyatt3278 ". I mean obviously makes sense to arrive ahead of time and they really should have a particular cap, but it should be really more of an hour," I've never been there more than 45 minutes early on my way out to the destination, usually more like 15 minutes early. If you're getting there two hours early you're just wasting your time.
@@xamomax "For Seatac it is no longer worth flying for trips that are shorter than about a 5 hour drive away" Are you kidding, you can fly that in one hour
If Economy seats get bigger, how will they sell Business class tickets? The goal is to have you uncomfortable in Economy flying so that you "upgrade".... It's CAPITALISM😂
Pretty simple. They made standard economy so horrendous that people will now pay 2k to fly in seats that are more like seats from the 70s... Interesting marketing concept.
Unlikely, business class seats have gotten better. There's just some things you can't cut for it to be a good business class seat. Lie flat and direct aisle access is pretty much the standard.
Business class seats have gotten so much better. I flew Emirates business class and had a middle seat without seat access. I complained and was fortunately moved.
Depends on the company really, and if you get on one of their newer planes. Lufthansa is known to have crappy business class seats. British Airways as well, but BA has started upgrading them, Lufthansa have started as well. I rarely travel business as I also mostly travel in Europe for work and vacation. Distances are so short and "business class" is so bad that it usually doesn't make sense. Have had some nice experiences before though, but I'm not very snobbish when it comes to the food and so on. SAS had nice seats, okay food, bad IFE. Finnair was nice, but their new seats look really cool. Emirates had good food, but their interior design was so damn tacky. @@travelguy78
Airlines will make it so uncomfortable in Economy because they want people to buy the much higher profit margin seats. This is why rail/high speed rail will continue to be a perfectly viable option even if the journey times are longer than the total journey time of plane (HSR is faster than planes for ~600 miles or less but still viable at greater distances). Even regular class train seats offer what one would have to upgrade to in a typical Airbus A320/Boeing 737. The almost 7 hour journey on a Barcelona to Paris was super comfortable on the 1st class Ouigo. TGV Duplex seat I was in. Decided to go 1st class so I could have a solo seat. It was an amazing experience. Brightline in Florida is very popular due to the levels of comfort offered. Once they open to Orlando, they will likely siphon even some airline travels between there and South Florida. Total airline journey times of 2 hours 20 minutes (MCO to FLL) vs 2 hours 45 minutes on Brightline (into Fort Lauderdale) makes the train more than viable. MCO to MIA to Downtown Miami nets you 2 hours 40 minutes of travel time to just over 3 hours on the train, but again the train offers more amenities/space at a lower cost.
@@maxsaviation9512 Then you've been on terrible trains. Also don't confuse commuter trains with intercity ones. Also definitely happening in the US. Just take a look at Brightline and other rail projects around the country.
There are 6 cabin classes based on the seat size and quality: First, Business, Premium Economy, Extra Legroom, Economy, Basic Economy, and the airlines are considering to offer a new class called Below Economy, where you sit on the floor.
i am wondering if separating the seating by size is a way to address passengers of different sizes and weights and be able to not only provide each individual passenger with a seat that would allow them to be comfortable but also allow the airline to charge extra for the heavier passengers? and also provide the heavier and bigger passengers with a comfortable seat too?? That would make sense, as each pound they transport costs more to transport? and it would give the lighter smaller passengers seats without having to subsidize the larger heavier passengers? And it does so without advertising it that way or embarrassing anyone.. I know one RU-vidr who is 6'1" and medium build and probably weighs in mid 200s. and he flies first class.. In his case, I think he is able to do that because he generates enough income from youtube and his flights are business expenses, to do that. Whereas I know some people that only weigh 100 pounds. they literally weigh less than half his weight. and both weigh what a person of their height and build would normally weigh. And there are some people that weigh 300 plus pounds.. some are very tall, like 6'9" or taller. I am guessing the varying size seats is a way to accommodate more people sizes and maximize the seating without giving up comfort or giving up space by placing small people in large seats?
In my opinion, any flight that is over 5 hours long should be treated as an international flight. Meaning, meals provided, wide body aircraft, blankets provided, inflight entertainment monitors on the seats provided, etc. I live outside of Washington, D.C. There is a flight from IAD-HNL with United Airlines, and in looking at the details, snacks are provided (for economy class). Yes, SNACKS. That is an 11 hour flight. I’d rather fly to Boston, and take Hawaiian airlines at that point!
"In my opinion, any flight that is over 5 hours long should be treated as an international flight. Meaning, meals provided, wide body aircraft, blankets provided, inflight entertainment monitors on the seats provided, etc. " Well, it is. For business class. You get what you pay for, man. Even the direct flights from IAD are 10 hours, you really want business class for that flight, because you're going to want to sleep. 🙂 Wait, I see this, on United's web site: "Flights over 500 miles will also have additional products like snack boxes, and flights 1500 miles and over have Bistro on Board items available for purchase." So they do provide more food if you want to buy it. I'm sure they have the seat back monitors in economy. 🙂
@@neutrino78x True; however, I was talking about Economy class. You’ll notice that even a lot of non US airlines have better amenities on their short flights compared to US airlines that have short flights. At least an IFE screen would be nice to have for these insane prices. But bottom line, the only duty these people have is to us from Point A to Point B, right?
@@Anonymous-il8yl "ou’ll notice that even a lot of non US airlines have better amenities on their short flights compared to US airlines that have short flights. " Who cares, though? It's a short flight. The seat could be made of concrete for all I care. 🙂 "At least an IFE screen would be nice to have for these insane prices. " Hmm, you have not flown recently? The only one that doesn't have an IFE in economy is Southwest, AFAIK. Actually, even Southwest has IFE, you just access it with your cell phone instead of with a monitor integrated into the back of the seat. 🙂 Southwest definitely doesn't have insane prices. It's really cheap. Of course, you should be buying your ticket well in advance, to keep the price low. 🙂I only make 22/hr (about 30% above the local minimum wage here in Silicon Valley) and I fly all the time. I buy the ticket in advance on Southwest. 🙂
@@neutrino78x Buying well in advance is unreliable and unrealistic though. You're talking about select people who know they have to fly for business or are planning their travel out months or a year or two or even more down the line. There are a lot of people like myself who don't have that option. I've had bookings for flights 2 days later. So yes you should be buying your ticket well in advance only if you have everything planned out that far, and don't intend on plans changing otherwise you're subjecting yourself to airline fees to cancel, or change.
I once flew from Los Angeles to South Africa and back on economy. 20 hours there and 20 hours back. A 40 hour round trip. There was a two hour stop in London, but it was brutal. Half way through each leg, I got up and went to the back of the plane and stretched. That was rough on the body.
@@mariomatisa7100 Which is literally what they want. Maximize the amount of people they can cram inside economy while making it so unbearable that people decide to get the more expensive ticket.
I just got back from SA also via LHR (BA). Yep, 20+ hrs each way, but I was in First, so no problems with comfort. On the flip side, I've never been so well fed that I was actually getting tired of eating and would skip offered meals lmaooo.
I'm all for the growth of premium economy but it sucks that it feels like the economy passenger is getting increasingly squeezed for no uptick in service. The cost of flying is still high and yet you don't get bags, in some cases no meals, seat pitches are getting smaller, etc.
It's almost like airlines are starting to learn that simply scraping the bottom of the fare barrel isn't the best way to get customers. There are many people who don't want to, or are unable to, shell out for the business or first class products, but just want to be treated like human beings.
I would argue it's a fuzzy boundary to try to define because there are going to be people who only see the airline as a way to get from A to B and they don't care about comfort. There are others who will appreciate it but still decide it's not worth it. But the airlines can only make decisions based on if customers are willing to actually pay for the better experience.
@@Vincent-ll5ypI am one of those people you speak of. As far as I'm concerned, the goal of every flight I'm on is to just make it back on the ground safely. I could care less what airline I take, how comfortable the seats are, weather or not I'm given food or entertainment/wifi. So I see no sense in paying for first class or any extras, and Definitely not for a pricer ticket on let's say Delta for example, when I can take spirit and get tickets for literally hundreds of dollars less. And I still make it there safely and on time in most cases. The way I see it, if the plane is going down, you won't be spared just because you payed more money for first class, a bigger/more comfortable seat. 🤷♀️ I'd rather save my money and spend it on something else I need/want or simply just save it
Dude if you're affording an airplane ticket, you're a king compared to half the world lol. 9% of people don't make over $2 a day. I think you can squeeze your tiny little legs in that space if you want to FLY IN THE AIR LIKE A BIRD.
My former employer had a travel policy that allowed for premium economy. Unfortunately, my company also had a computerized airline booking system. The system automatically choose the lowest fare, so I could never book the premium seat!
@@geocam2 I’m almost positive our company was the exception, but policy was, if it was an expense incurred on the business trip, it could be expensed. Blank cheque. I’d figure since leasing/sales made so much of the money, they really didn’t mind, within logical reason. I couldn’t charter a jet, but I could get steak at the hotel. Hundred dollars here, hundred dollars there, didn’t bother them. Had to call over $400.
Finnair’s new long haul business class seat is quite innovative: it trades almost all motors and electronics with associated weight for more space, lighter weight fixed but flexible surfaces, allowing dining, working and sleeping all very well. The reduced weight saves loads of fuel and the space and privacy is great.
This is an excellent point because when you see the video of all the "innovative" electronics and wiring being added to the seats, you know something is being sacrificed because of course the seat pitch and width isn't getting any bigger.
Having flown it, the privacy is great and it is a spacious seat, great for sleeping. But since it was a day flight, it is a poor product for anything in between sitting upright and sleeping, like watching a movie due to the lack of reclining functions. Despite this, it remains one of the best business class products albeit the ground service provided by Finnair is deplorable.
Unless you are quite rich, you will usually find better ways for spending your money than upgrading from a $600 economy class seat to a §2,000 business class seats on a journey that just takes tens hours or so. For that amount of money you can make many more hours more comfortable than ten. So unless you have a budget of more than $1,000 for EACH day of your life, it does not make sense to spend $1,400 on upgrading to a better seat. I recently did a 16 hour flight from Auckland to JFK in economy class and it was okay. Premium economy class would have cost me at least $600 more. That's just too much money for the small difference between economy and premium economy. For $600 you can make a 30 minute helicopter flight over New York City. So those upgrades are only for people who already have enough money for things like the helicopter flight anyway. What really would be an added value is arriving at the destination faster. So if hypersonic planes come back, they can save people precious hours of their life. That is worth much more than a first class seat that will not bring you to your destination any faster.
Touché. I make seven figures, and have always flown in economy class. I simply pick a window seat, and given that my flights are no more than 7.5 hours. I don’t even move, nor go to the toilet, and 80% of the time, don’t eat the free inflight meal. I’ve enjoyed flying this way since 2006. Plus, it allows my two fellow passengers, the ability to go to the toilets whenever they want, without me standing in their way. As I’ve never moved from my seat, after being seated when boarding the plane. I simply put my headset on, watch a couple of movies, or listen to music, while reading a book. I also don’t mind being the last person to disembark from the plane. As I’ve never understood why people stand in queues as soon as the plane lands. Like people, we’re all going to wait for at least half an hour at passport control together, chill.
@@DeadAir21 Only if I had the money and the saved time would be worth it for me. So not at the moment and likely never, unless I somehow become so rich that a saved hour is worth hundreds of hours for me.
Seats in economy class are not getting fancier. in fact service in economy class is still falling but ticket prices are rising, airlines are just squeezing you of all they can. I just paid an extra 300 bucks to have an exit row seat on a transatlantic return trip. and if i want one more bag that will be another 100..... always need to pay more and more....
Exactly This video makes me sick. United Airlines and American Airlines are a disgrace. The 15 hour flight from LA to Sydney is a joke, they should be charged with inhumane conditions for the small amount of leg room these greedy corporate pigs have given us.
Now that we've accepted cramped seats as normal, paying a bit more for more room and comfort makes sense. We just forgot that they made seats smaller and smaller decades ago to make more and more profit, profits that went into stock buy backs.
Because flying is so cheap nowadays. People seem to forget how expensive flying. Don’t think a lot of people could afford flying if we only had business class fares.
@cityplanner3063 actually. Its the opposite. Flying is cheap because of business class. At least because of covid. Companies don't care the cost of flights. So, the business class actually subsidized economy class. But now, prices are expensive for economy because Companies realized how money is saved by using zoom instead
This industry has created their own hell and made their costs sore, attempting to pass the cost on to customers and the stress onto their flight attendants and support staff.
It troubles me that everything I see nowadays seem to provide a benefit and better way of life for the 'very rich'. I mean I make $270K/year, but unable to afford some of these seats costing between $50K - $100K because they do provide more comfort. Sucks.
to extract more money out of people. they’ll cost significantly more than they should. they train you by taking away so much that you see these comfier seats as a worthwhile upgrade
So. Are you going to buy a plane, train to fly it, pay and do maintenance and then also other upkeep like fuel? The cost of anything is what demand in the market prices it as.
Amazing. I fly a lot and have been almost positive nobody actually sits in these seats or tests them out before they make them. I also aspire to the thought they don’t want to make people too comfortable in economy and 75% of the time in business class.
It’s hard to believe there isn’t a way to regulate the minimum required spaces for people on airplanes…that would solve the problem of seats that are too small with no legroom.
Seats have gotten so small it's not just an issue of comfort, but of safety. It has gotten difficult just moving down the aisle(s) and getting in and out of the seat itself.
I just got off a 37 hour set of flights in economy. One of my 11 hour legs was in the "excuse me" seat where I couldn't get out unless my neighbor was awake. My back hurt so bad. Was worried about DVT. He was half in my seat, so I was squashed. My knees hit the seat in front of me (claustrophobic). Just a horrible experience.
Meanwhile AirAsiaX & Cebu Pacific use a 3-3-3 seat arrangement for their A330s, probably taking advantage of the fact that their mainly Asian passengers are generally smaller-sized
@@lzh4950 Ive flown both. Theyre horrible even if Im tiny. The seats are worse than bus coach seats. AND THEY RECLINE which turns it into a nightmare. The backrest infront can be right in your face.
People for years kept buying the cheapest seat no matter how bad it was. Finally people are paying attention to how absolutely awful those base seats are and realizing it’s not worth the cost savings.
Agree. Especially on a long flight where you are going to be sleeping. Being able to sleep in a flatbed can make the difference of you first few days being like a normal day or recovering from jetlag.
I just flew this new airline called Starlux and I gotta tell you, it was the best economy experience. The seats were really comfortable and roomy and you get 4k screens. They even give you metal cutlery for your food.
One important note from this report is that the seat suppliers are not responsible for seating layout, the airlines are. Many uncomfortable passengers like to blame the seat suppliers when crammed into a seat for hours…😮
I am a premium seat user 6' 5", fly Delta as a preferred livery. I do not know why the airlines do not just make the premium and coach seats larger and charge more for it. People have to fly or prefer to fly and will pay to get from A to B. So why not make it comfortable for them.
Because of my brother, and most people are like him. They are more than happy to drop $1200 to $1400 on a new phone or $5000 on new diving equipment but then complain about the high cost of airline tickets. They sit on their computer trying to find the absolute cheapest flight available, and when they get it, they complain about the size of the seat, totally ignoring the fact that they voted for the cheapest seat.
Exactly this. Because study after study of the data shows that even though people express dissatisfaction with the seat size or pitch, when given the chance to buy up the next time...they don't. 20 years ago, American even ran an experiment across their fleet where they expanded the legroom by spacing out the seats (it was a capacity reduction play, but same effect ). No one paid a penny extra to fly American. So they ended it.
@@daneclark3161 that's just an excuse and they know it. Those cheap people are going to complain either way. Take away the cheaper option altogether. You do not see crank windows and stick shifts in vehicles nowadays because it just isn't an option. They are cheaper but they just do not exist. By forcing the upgrade you always lower the costs because it is spread amongst more people. Every industry does this over time and just upgrades a given feature across the board since it is more cost effective. We need a Tesla of the skies to just screw up their stupid business plans.
@@danielthompson3928 exactly. By economies of scale it, if all the seats are upgraded to premium, the extra cost that people would have to pay would be lesser than what we have to pay now for the upgrade between regular/premium
I know a guy with an encyclopedic knowledge of airplane seats, even has a bunch in a collection. No idea how he got them. Met him when I was training to be an Aircraft mechanic.
When are seat designers going to quit with the headrests that thrust our necks into a bad position, and instead give us lumbar support? 😵💫 I’ll take that over leg room.
All I want is an airplane like in the movie The Fifth Element. You basically have your own Japanese capsule hotel for the whole flight where you can sleep, and it's more space saving than seats. You can cram more people in the plane.
@@Commandotoad it should be an optional section of the plane. Not the whole plane. There are also lots of Americans who wouldn't fit in those capsules.
Remember in the movie they gassed the passengers to knock them out. Maybe the airlines could do that and then people would not complain about the seats.:->
The standard economy seat is so bad, the other day I couldn’t even sit normally because of seat metal parts by the feet let alone have any room to move around.
In the end, it is just scheme to make the normal tourist class more crappy and uncomfortable to squeeze more money out of a passenger. The flying experience for a tall person has never been worse than in 2023.
12:40 As someone who has just been on a 16 hour international flight I can tell you that the experience is anything but seamless. Flying is absolute trash. I would rather spend 5 times more time traveling by car than being trapped in a plane and dealing with all the TSA nonsense.
On a long, very long, transatlantic flight, my pretty neighbor passenger fell asleep. She rested her head on my chest, her arm cuddled me. I also snoozed. Turbulence woke us both. She was embarrassed, but I felt honored that she would trust me with her sleep. If, instead, she had been a middle-aged sales guy: most likely I should have felt otherwise.
Emirates looks attractive on all levels just by me watching this alone: The planes. The amenities. THE PEOPLE! And here in the US we are super far behind!
US Airlines are ridiculous in quality compared to the Middle Eastern and East Asian airlines. Even central European airlines like BA and the like are dragging behind.
Being tall leg room is a premium. I have to pay more to keep my legs not from hitting the seat in front of me, but when the seat in front me puts their seat back...my legs are by my ears.
The airline, by using jam-packed, tightly-fitted economy seats with a lean-back option, are responsible for discomfort, resentment, anger, arguments and actual fights between passengers, when the one leaning back feels it is their right because the airline has provided them that option and the passenger behind them who is squashed.
1:45 “…making sure that passengers not only buy the ticket today, but also next time they’re on board.” I can’t remember the last time I bought my tickets after boarding
There should be a class action lawsuit for these airlines. The fact that you don’t fit seems like discrimination to me. I wonder why they haven’t been sued yet??
We flew a 737 Max on a 5-hour flight last year. It was the most uncomfortable claustrophobic experience of my life. Seats jammed together, washrooms so small you practically had to back in. Since then, we've paid for upgrades when we can. When that's not an option, we've chosen destinations based on who does and doesn't fly the 737 Max. We will never knowingly board that plane again.
Star Trek style teleportation would solve the problem altogether: Simply and instantly show up at your destination. No more need to pack anything more than an overnight bag, if even that.
My Femur doesn't fit in economy seats as it is now, I tend to have to stick out one leg in the aisle or jam my knees up the seat in front of me to make it work
So what you're saying is that airline seating accuratly reflects the widening wealth gap in America? The cheap seats are getting smaller and more cramped while the first class seats are getting more complex, larger and more opulent.
It's an airplane... If you want better seats, buy your own airplane! They're only a few hundred thous- oh. Right. I guess I'll be content with *_flying like a literal Eagle_* for a price "too high".
Premium Economy is a joke. Basically a slight bit better than regular economy but a pretty disappointing product overall regardless of the airline- some better, some worse. The deep dark secret is that companies have largely restricted long-haul business class travel... so airlines wised up and now charge a lot (sometimes even more than business!) for an inferior seat in premium. Result- sometimes you can just exchange your ticket or pay for an upgrade to business. Problem solved!
After what Air New Zeland pulled a few months ago airlines will really have to rethink their seat structures. Air New Zeland added bunk beds like capsule ones for the Economy class. The government approved it so quick and they will start putting it into airplanes.
I know that this idea is highly controversial for our dear american friends, but the solution is quite simple. Enforcing regulation. Decreeing that it's illegal for airlines to have lower seat pitch than 32 inches. It's that simple.
Your solution would increase the price of a ticket substantially. Airlines having to reconfigure all their seats, bumping passengers off existing bookings, being able to sell fewer tickets per flight, etc. Onerous regulation on the market side of aviation was the reason flying used to cost so much. Comparing current ticket prices to inflation-adjusted pre-deregulation ticket prices shows it's more affordable today.
@@Commandotoad They don't. All the regulationi says is that they shouldn't make seats so close that evacuation can't meet the maximum time of 90 seconds for all passengers to get out with half the exits blocked. There isn't an actual number provided.
Unfortunately I think the NTSB, TSA and government agencies who "regulate" these things are bought out by the big corporations. A few years ago they did "test" evacuations with "volunteers" off the street and found the new smaller seats and leg room didn't pose safety problems in the event of an evacuation. I bet they picked the skinniest people off the street for the test. If they want to be fair, they should have conducted the test out in Florida.
I did economy back when i had just enough money to travel. Then in 2019 i said never again because of how cramed i felt. I paid for premium. Then last month i spent an extra 1800 dollars to upgrade to 1st class. It was worth it as it was only a couple of thousand dollars on a 12 plus hour flight. Now its the only way i want to fly.
What really matters is not the seat size but its weight. Lighter seats equals more seats, equals more profits, equals the airlines bottom line. Passenger comfort is a poor second. Ryanair and Easyjet are more good examples..
This looks like it's all about the bigger fancier seats -- The goal is to make the economy seats so small and agonizing that more people HAVE to pay more to get the bigger ones. I'm waiting to see which airline will install those double-decker butt-sniffer seats the news was touting a couple months ago.
Those likely won't happen, too many people would fall over during an emergency evacuation. The harnessed half-standing seats we saw before could though, granted the setup is intuitive enough to put on and doesn't add too much weight.
They (airlines) must be trying to appeal to a very small subset of fliers because the amount of $$$$ they want for premium economy and above is out of reach.
Recently flew to Istanbul via Turkish Airlines and I swear their seats were smaller. Probably because the aircraft is smaller (A350). Apparently, that kind of aircraft is becoming more popular so we'll be getting smaller and smaller seats.
I know who I’ll be flying with if I go for 10hr or more long haul flights. Hopefully seats will accommodate actual sized people cause it’s getting too close to comfort
- First Class Suites are slumped - Ensuite Business Class & Premium Economy are on Demand - while LLCs are eagered on crushing legroom on latest tech of Basic Economy
I traveled spirit and the seat was so small I had to take something for pain never again the moment I sit on a chair if I can't fit I immediately ask for another seat or leave AND NEVER FLY THAT airline again I also have an implant and I'm disabled so the pain is no joke I now always make sure I have something for pain on me just in case which you shouldn't have to do it's crazy
If a airline was associated with comfort for all regular passengers, I think they could win a lot of passengers just by that. Filling plane with seats is one thing, but filling the plane with paying customers is another! Just looking at the cost and potential income is a simple way of doing the economics.
@@martijnwo4840 It's a balancing act of course, but I know many people who would never consider to travel with the cheapest, like Ryan Air over here in Europe.
making a profit as an airline is a tough business I think. they run with a very small margin, from what I understand. but I think technology is helping to lower costs. We may see fully autonomous planes in the future, which will further lower costs. That might start with running a plane with 1 standby pilot, who can essentially sleep the entire trip and be ready to take the pilot seat in an emergency. And with that, there will be more flexibility in airplane design to reduce the weight of the cockpit and add more space for carrying passengers. And the plane will not be so stuck in finding a human pilot at each leg of a trip. Also, they can keep the airplane in the air for more hours each day(another factor of pilot availability). Also, these autonomous airplanes would still or could be remotely flown like drones are if needed by land-based pilots. Also as advances in electric airplane technology increases.. we may see a further reduction in the costs of flying, as the cost of fuel is one of the highest expenses of flying a plane.
@@martijnwo4840 It will only drive away price-conscious air travelers. Airlines would do better to tailor their seating to passengers who are willing to pay more to get better seats and food.
There should be 0 short haul flights in 2023! France is leading the way banning them and the rest of the EU isn't far behind... unfortunately in the US because we're 40 years behind in train infrastructure it makes this an impossibility... But when we have a functioning HSR network spanning East to West we should adopt these practices too.
@@justrandomthings319 It's not faster for short hop fights, you're forgetting the multi hour boarding process and the process of renting a car, you might get lucky hailing a taxi immediately or only a 5 min wait for an Uber but that fluctuates wildly compared to a train connection. Safety is technically true but you're comparing 15x more likely to be struck by lightning compared to only 7x, currently there are 0 reported fatalities for any HSR line which is the direct comparison. Pretty hard to beat 0.
I’m in Australia & I’ve done the maths … on most international flights it’s cheaper to buy 2x economy seats instead of 1x premium economy seat. You’ll get more space to stretch, avoid a neighbour on at least 1 side, plus you get double the luggage allowance 👍
In Frontier's new aircraft, they've completely removed the ability to recline in "stretch seating" with the new Recaro seats. In the first 3 rows or in the emergency exit row, you were able to recline but not anymore. Just interesting to see the seating experience become even more polarized depending on which segment of the market the airline is targeting. That said, I'd much prefer extremely cheap fares to comfortable seats, provided the flight isn't longer than 4 hours.
I flew Frontier once. Never again. Same with Spirit, to the point where I flew Spirt to Las Vegas and actually canceled my flight home on them and paid more to fly JetBlue.
I'm lost of the classing economically my country banned classifying seating by economic status like 1st class back in 2009 its unnecessary and excuse for price gouging that part of plane. I know America, loves their labels while at the same time ironically, waging political war on labels so probably, won't change classifying seats.
I'm sure most people would prefer flying in a small seat to not flying at all. Tickets were really expensive before, having the chance to fly is a luxury. Even on crap airlines like Ryanair.
I'm 6'2" and the pitch of seats on most airlines is downright criminal in my opinion. They better enjoy abusing the customer while they can because when autonomous cars come to pass the majority of short-haul flights, and their business, will vanish. Just like my leg room did.
I used to love to fly, I stopped flying 20 plus years ago when the airlines started treating guest like cattle. I am not particularly large 6foot 230lbs. I don't fit in the seat or restrooms. I choose to drive, I just returned from a trip from California to Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas. The airlines missed out on my dollars because of past experiences. I would love to fly again but only if the airlines up their game and start treating us like valued customers, rather than barn yard live stock.😮
We will see this trend everywhere - businesses going out of their way to cultivate and serve the wealthy while creating abysmal take it or leave it situations for ordinary individuals who need their services and have no other choice.
I'm sorry but the buying public created that situation. Just look at this comment section. Lots of comment complaining that premium economy is too expensive even if depending on the flight, the difference isn't that munch. For these people, flying wouldn't be any different from taking a bus. They might complain at comfort but they let their wallet do the talking by buying the cheapest ticket they can find online. This forces airliners to compete purely on pricing for that market segment. Those customers don't care about anything else. Meanwhile, first and business class are better than ever since those clients expect a certain level of service for the money they pay so ariliners are force to deliver on that fornt.
@@celderian Perhaps the public perceives correctly that airfares are too high. Consider that all of the mergers in the industry have decreased competition, making it easier to charge high fares. Also remember that airlines in the past were accused in a civil action of colluding to keep fares high, resulting in their having to issue vouchers to customers (although because of odd denominations and complex rules of use including minimum cash fares, most were not redeemed).
@@bwofficial1776 of course. On the other hand there’s an easy way to fly comfortably: upgrade to a premium cabin. In my eyes the government shouldn’t subsidise airlines to keep prices down. Legislation could work but would drive prices up.
last time i flew economy i was so uncomfortable i vowed never to fly economy again, tried first class as a splurge, now trying business class for my next trip
Great article. As passengers are bigger, older, less mobile, carrying more cabin luggage, and aircraft are far more fuel efficient, we need to regulate safer for passenger health and evacuation - premium economy should be a minimum - 900 mm pitch and 600 mm width for each seat including armrests. Airlines will need to buy the stretched versions of aircraft.
People are larger because they eat like pigs and/or unhealthy af food. You should actually see the food waste in America, it's insane. The same population then turning around and complaining about seat size is comical to any viewers from foreign countries with less average means. If you want more premium space or experience... pay for it. If the "new" economy seats are going to be like what's marketed as PE, have the prices reflect that, so that people are paying several hundred dollars minimum too for their tickets.
The decrease in supply from your proposal would likely mean those seats would cost more than premium economy seats do now, at the very least substantially more than regular economy. What you are essentially asking for is a minimum bid quantity in the market for aircraft floorspace, that only makes floorspace scarcer and consumers will have to try to outbid each other more for the reduced seating capacity.
@@electricpaper269 If the government mandated a minimum floor space (width and length) per seat, and economy phased out at 10% of economy for 8 years, then the final 20% in one go, we would find airlines phase our smaller aircraft for larger aircraft. The primary cost difference would be higher capital costs and more fuel. I would be surprised if costs went up 10%, while passengers get safer aircraft and better service.
I'm an upper middle-class American and these honestly just appear to me as a pipe dream. Unless you're wealthy enough to essentially be retired, you are not going to be in one of these seats, most people, when they do fly, are trying to do so as cheaply as possible. If anything, those standing seats near the end of the video seem the most likely as the future awaiting the average traveler.
Airlines degraded economy seats over time, so much that these 'premium' economy seats are what 'original' economy seats used to be before they started downsizing these seats for whatever reasons; to increase capacity, profit, etc.
I'm 6'3 and I have to say, while I'm not a fan of economy seats, I have flown for £14 per flight. You could bundle me in the hold for £14 and I'd be happy
Who knew that passengers willing to pay more can get a more comfortable seat? Wait for the Spirit crowd to complain that their $29 fare doesn’t include a flat bed seat and a four course meal.
