Imagine a world where a feeder team and 3 back markers who have openly tanked years for "development" are more valuable than a new team with a manufacturer backing.
Pool the resources together and take it to the big boys. The "HaasMeoTauriams" F1 team would dominate. Or at least cost A LOT less to haul around the world.
@@veryevilpersonfromillumina5893 fair, but the sport isn't the same as it was back then. Andretti has a history of competing in Motorsport, and backed by a giant like GM it should be much more competitive than the likes of Haas, AT, Williams and current Sauber. The fact that redbull has 2 teams is absolutely mind boggling to me.
It's not Andretti's fault that the existing teams are acting like a cartel protecting thier prize money. I miss the old days when if you had the resources to build a car you could race and you succeed or fail on merit.
Imo, the whole monetary argument is moot, since we have the cost cap, and certainly the front-running teams can, if they don't already, make a profit on their F1 operations.
You've got to take into account that mamy of the lower tier teams have not been financially viable during the 2010s and 2020s. It's understandable that they're wary of splitting their cut. F1 is still rigged as Ferrari gets the most money out of it by just participating.
The big teams spend a lot less money now than they ever did and still they dont want to lose a bit of price money. It is just becoming a show of money grabbing and has less and less to do with the sport itself
It’s a worst-case scenario for F1, but best-case for FIA. This is straight-up organizational politics. There’s no reasonable doubt that Andretti/Cadillac are capable of building a competitive car and team. FIA wants to expand, and at least some teams in F1 do not. If this was all behind closed doors, F1 could kill it without much backlash. But FIA has made it very difficult for F1 to say no.
There is plenty of doubt about Andretti being competitive, at least, if you follow F1. Trying to make a deal with Renault for the engines, the worst possible engine since the start of the hybrid era, should tell you everything you need to know.
A team who have never designed and built a car entering with a customer power unit from the weakest supplier? And trying to do it on the opposite side of the world from all proven F1 talent and suppliers? I think there is ONLY reasonable doubt that they can be competetive. It's like building a space shuttle in London - you could try it, but it will be a poor attempt and it will bankrupt you trying to do it. Haas saw that iceberg.
F1 has made it clear they do not want an 11th team under any circumstances. 600 million entry fee is absolutely absurd, its 3 times the annual budget of the biggest F1 teams. Hell, it beats Mercedes' 450 million dollar budget they had back before the cost cap regulations. Those that came in because "costs are out of control." Hell, even the 200million fee is already ridiculous, it's more that the cost cap! "We want to ensure they'll be competitive" rings completely hollow when they are trying to remove all their resources to be competitive right off the bat. That fee is literally a "fuck off" amount that's only being called to increase when the teams realized that oh no, Andretti does have big enough coffers to clear it.
??? Even the worst F1 teams are worth around 1 billion (Audi buying majority Sauber proves this) so for a team to pay 200 million and then around 200 more million for operations, so 400 million to enter F1 and automatically become worth around 1 billion is crazy. Use your brain
F1 Teams: You have to pay several times the annual budget to enter. New team: *pays the fee and competes the first year under the cost cap* F1 Teams: 😡 They broke the cost cap, because the entry fee pushed them over the cap in the first year!!! 😡
@@contra03 There's a difference between value, revenue and capital. When you say a team is worth 1 billion (which, btw, the worst F1 teams aren't), all that means is that this is their their estimated sales price. It doesn't mean they have 1 billion in the bank, or that they are making 1 billion a year in revenue. If you were to buy an F1 team for 1 billion tomorrow, it would take time for you to recoup your investment - and there's not even a guarantee that you would (things can always go sour in business). For example: Aston Martin has just posted a negative financial statement for 2022 - they lost money (some due to them making investments - but still). You might want to use your brain yourself.
Toto Wolff, one of the biggest proponents against Andretti Cadillac, said he would have accepted Audi as the 11th team should they want to join as one. This is either about keeping small teams from entering F1 or it’s about protecting European pride. Perhaps it’s even some combination of both. Because I guarantee you: if Cadillac made some shady under the table deal with F1 to steal Andretti’s F1 project and instead enter it as their own, they’d be welcome in with flying colors
@@contra03 the teams themselves aren't worth that much. you surely are including sponsor money. a billion dollars? you must have an exhaust leak into the cockpit.
@KR1736 - "FIA actually looks like the good guys" -- That is not a thing. That combination of letters is unable to happen in this reality. F1 does not need FIA, Please F1...Cut out the cancer asap.
there's no good guys there's andretti... a moron crybaby. the people who follow him... moron netflix brigade FiA who looked at his finances and said ye they tick the boxes. ANd Formula 1 who will laugh at moron andretti and say NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA As they should. But no good guys except the F1 fans who where here before the netflix idiots joined. They are probably the good guys.
what baffles me the most about a "valuable contribution" to F1 is the existance of the Red Bull sister team, a team which literally isn't allowed to compete with the bigger team. Is the competition factor really what's "valuable"?
The valuable contribution is money. Redbull brings insane amounts of money in, and they saved a team that was already on the grid. They didn’t add another team. It’s not about the competition
@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168tell me the name of any team that has given chance to drivers purely on merit in recent years and I'll wait. Alpha tauri is the only f1 team encouraging merit giving chances to even non redbull drivers. Williams haas alfa romeo will only bring new drivers with sponsors and big teams are not interested in new talent.
It’s a fair point. Ditto with Ferrari having their heritage bonus/veto power. How does a single team having veto power over a rule change improve competition?! The answer is always gonna be the dolla dolla bills (for those already involved) with the explanation being some sort of half plausible spin
With WEC, IMSA, GTWC all providing amazing racing these days and an outlook that only seems like it's going to get better, I think adding a new team is the only move F1 has to help maintain its viewership
@@devonmangiarelli3886 Fans have never watched Monaco for the overtaking. It's prestige comes from the challenge of the circuit. Complaining Monaco has no overtaking is like complaining a chocolate cake contains chocolate. Its kind of the whole point of that stage of the competition.
Hold on, so in theory Andretti could now officially compete in the FIA competition "Formula 1 World Championship" - they could turn up to the track and participate in the races, officially win the championship and get absolutely no money, being cut out of the broadcasts?
NO! F1 is an FIA reconised championship, and run to FIA "rules" . BUT the FIA don't own it, it's up to the commercial rights holder and the Teams to say who is allowed to compete.
Actually excited by the idea that F1 will have to lay bare it's utter greed and contempt for its fans in declining Andretti's bid. They won't get to hide behind "sport opens up doors/shines a light on despotic regimes" like they do when they allow Grand Prix weekends to take place in unsavory places.
The Andretti name carries an incredible legacy. I think it's a name more Americans can identify with, as well as Cadillac, of course. It hardly gets more American than that. I think in a few years time, team Andretti could bring in enough extra revenue to offset the 11th piece of pie. They'd only need to grow the brand by 10% to do that.
The race has some bad opinions on this one, dragging the process out gives transparency as to who is responsible, Toto and Horner can’t say it was the fia we wanted them
Well the Race Shills for their contacts in the paddock. FIA isn't giving them any access, so its an easy call for them to carry Toto's water and shit on the FIA for this mess.
The disagreement between the FIA and F1 on this matter has been very much public knowledge since the first statement of intent from Andretti. Through some stroke of apocalyptic luck the FIA got something right and recognised the Andretti bid to be a fair and just prospect and that Andretti joining F1 would have more benefits than drawbacks. The current F1 circus has become so closed off to the outside world it sees any potential change as a threat to its existence, and has been making some rather rash decisions as commercial rights holder. Previously new teams were vetted together by both the FIA and Formula 1 management but as the tension between the two organisations are already fractious they were never going to do that. Previous new entries were sometimes vetted by the FIA before getting F1 approval however everything would have been kept confidential until everything was finished. Now that the F1 and FIA relationship is already strained, the FIA is doing its own thing, and hoping to show F1 up for being the gatekeepers spoiled child it is behaving like. Whilst this is worst case for PR and for confusion, I do not think the FIA could our would have handled the situation any differently without being at loggerheads with F1 already.
This is not the worst case scenario. This is the best case scenario. If F1 is gonna say no, I wanna know it was them and not the FIA. I wanna know it was for commercial reasons and not for sporting reasons. The first full season I watched of F1 had 24 cars, only the first six cars got points, Minardi was on the grid, thee was no cost cap, and yet all teams got championship points. Today's regulations make it far more suitable for one or two new teams to join F1.
This is only the worsst case scenario if you DON'T want a new team. All F1 has to do is quit their Eurobullshit and say Y E S to America, and everything will go fine. If Andretti fails they can say told you so, and if not they'll be too busy swimming in greenbacks to say much of anything.
That's not going to happen for awhile. Amerrica is here to stay for the time being. The only nation in danger of eclipsing the US as a market is China, and if you've read anything about their internal debt crisis they're trying desperately to pretend we don't already know everything about, that's not happening either. let's just say that Belt and Road was a massive boondoggle that blew their liquidity to hell and back due to corrupt 3rd world kleptocrats taking the money and running, because of course they did, or simply not being able to pay China b ack on their terms, because of course they weren't. They turned all their liquidity into credit they can't quickly liquidate and it's devastated Chinese economic power projection for years to come. Other than them who's left? Europe's already pretty much all in as far as F1 is concerned, so who else? Russia? India? Africa? BraziLOOLOLOLOL (sorry couldn't keep a straight face) America is the only viable axis of expansion for Formua 1. @@alias19
Haven't we just completely lost the plot here? If the team has the credentials to enter F1 as determined by the FIA, then that's that. They should be allowed in. This is a sport at the end of the day, and the prize money being diluted a bit from a new entrant is part of the risk the teams take by entering the sport in the first place. The existing teams and FOM should have no say in the matter whatsoever. Also, this quote... "Good luck explaining that to people who will just see F1 turning down an American team with proven motorsport pedigree which also has the backing of a major car maker behind it." Congrats, you just explained exactly what it would be. It would be as ridiculous as it sounds if it happens.
Why do you want a pie split 10 ways be split 11 ways, when there's 3 pieces openly for sale? Audi wanted in, they bought Sauber. Lawrence Stroll wanted his son in, he bought Force India. So why can't Andretti buy Williams? Hell, I heard Andretti has a stake on Alpine... Why not buy them outright since Renault says they're bleeding money? And isn't Alpha Tauri also for sale? If he wants in so badly: he can buy a team.
I can only speak for myself, but having 1 or 2 more teams in F1 is something I welcome with open arms and it will definitely increase my interest in the sport even further. That will also open 2 to 4 new driving spots. F1 has had 12 and even 13 teams in the past and during those times (90's early 2000's) the sport was at its peak. Its not just up to Andretti to ensure growth of the sport so that everyone's slice of the pie gets bigger, that should be a joint effort between F1, FIA and all the other teams.
Personally I'd love to see Hyundai make a bid. They've grown enormously over the last 20 years and they're probably strong enough now to step into the racing circuits. Love to have them in F1.
How would you feel if both new teams were as off the pace as the last new entrants were? Would you still appreciate teams that were so far off the back they were essentially in a separate class? It just strikes me everyone thinks they want new teams but then disown Haas and decry the last three genuine new entrants.
@@Zero41sv Its not ideal but its always been the case in F1, 1-2 teams competing at the front,, majority is midfield and 1-2 at the back. It wouldnt change how I feel if they were worse than Haas, at the very least new driver spots will be opened up. Obviously best case scenario is every team to be competitive at the front, but chances of that ever happening are pretty slim.
@@E_Clip no, of courses you're right there - but we're talking a much, much greater gap between new teams and the rest of the field than between Red Bull and the second fastest team on a given weekend. I remember the last new teams, and the very clear need for the 107% rule, then recall that this is the narrowest field spread we've ever had and just cannot see how an outfit that's never even built a less complex car has any chance of anything but embarrassing themselves and the sport. Especially when constrained by a cost cap on their development to catch up. That's not a slight on Andretti - big name, great operation, mighty pedigree... but in profoundly different disciplines. They wouldn't be the first motorsport powerhouse to bankrupt themselves with an F1 entry, and this is the sort of investment that even in the best realistic conditions is going to a massive debt to clear for perhaps decades. Toto Wolff was right when he said it would take, at least, one billion dollars to start and operate an F1 team for just the first few years. Its not chump change. And for all the the talk of the American market, teams have never brought in fans with the odd exception of the magic that is Ferrari. And when I think how quickly fans turned their back on Haas, when they had the perfectly reasonable thought 'Hey, we don't actually know how to build this car and everyone who does is in Europe and for decades have refused to leave, maybe we can't do it at our US Facility and not embarrass ourselves' - I'm not confident Andretti fans will be any more reliable when the team shows up and is continually off the pace for a good few years. It's a cliché but Americans famously like to win and they like winners. Thats not going to be Andretti.
@@Zero41sv I think the points you're raising which are of financial nature arent a concern for F1 as a sport. Lots of big names have come and gone in the sport over the decades. Andretti or anyone for that matter has to make their own financial decisions. If some team invests a billion over a few years that money wont go all to waste. They can sell the team and even make a profit. Even Haas with all their investments since 2016 and assuming they've been operating at a net loss, can probably sell the team and make some profit. On the flipside you have teams like Brawn for instance, won the championship on their first year then sold to Mercedes for a lot of money.
I don't expect F1 to present a concord agreement contract to Andretti as long as the teams have to be in agreement upon their entry. Even if there is a 12-team agreement. The anti-dilution fee is going to complicate matters even further, due to the fact that teams aren't going to agree on how much is owed by Andretti. I think it's going to result in a deadlock between Andretti and the FIA and F1 and the teams. This going to be an embarrassment and highly unprofessional.
It sure will. However much one disagrees with the business model Liberty created for F1 with the last Concorde Agreement, the fact is it was signed and agreed by all parties - including the FIA, if the statement on their web site is correct. The teams have every right to exercise the terms of the contract.
They will present the contract, once they are done negotiating the new Concorde agreement. The one that has the anti-dilution fee that is over half a billion slated to come into action starting 2026. That is the one Andretti will get to sign, not the older one they have now.
If F1 rejects Andretti Cadillac, it'll seem like they're rejecting new teams in general. I can't think of many better examples for a new F1 entry than one of the most famous names in Motorsport (among other things, an F1 world champion) and one of the biggest car companies, GM
@@Metis1337almost certainly. I’ve been saying this for months that GM should have been the one propose the team. Including a guarantee the GM would produce and engine from day one.
@@Appletank8Oh they're, but I wonder what they'll say to their hundreds of employees that are being denied additional opportunities to get a promotion and/or higher wages.
FIA pulled a good one. Basically, forcing the F1 and teams in the corner. They have only two options; 1) Agree that Andretti is coming and the money has to be split among 11 teams. 2) If F1 denies the entry, that proves to audiences which instance is actually running the F1 and risking on losing lots of sponsor money and fans alongside
Agreed; by being both vocal and public in their approval statement, the FIA effectively painted F1 in a corner where the only two plausible outcomes are either to (a) admit Andretti F1 into the series and have 11 teams or (b) deny them the entry and effectively blow up interest in the sport in the U.S. The knock-on effects could be huge and long-lasting.
Yeah but Motorsport isnt like football, you cant have a promotion and relegation system. And you cant just allow anyone to enter or we would have 20 cars one year and 40 cars the next, then 26 the year after that (which we used to have way back when, and it was bad for the sport)
... I don't see the issue. Audi wanted in, so they bought a team. Lawrence Stroll wanted his son in, so he bought a team. Williams is openly for sale by Donnington Capital. Alpine is lowkey for sale too, and Alpha Tauri has always been rumored to be for sale especially now that Dieter Mateschitz is dead. So if Andretti wants in so badly, why not purchase one of the spots openly asking to be bought? Why does a 10 piece pie need to be split 11 ways when 3 pieces are for sale? That's just dumb.
@@Mebsuta 1. Andretti has "fuck you" money and a lot of it. 2. they have the pedigree to compete with the best. 3. its not dumb at all. Andretti will bring tons of North American viewership to F1, in a time where F1 recently lost a large chunk of their American viewership to Red Bull's dominance. So the prospect of adding a potentially podium competing team to juicy to the FIA. F1 and the teams are just gatekeeping at this point because of imo fear.
@@FBIsecurityVAN so you've literally just strengthened my argument. Andretti has the money to buy any of the teams that are for sale, but refuses to do so on a whim that north americans have collectively decided to share.
Oh, i don't know, they were there back when F1 wasn't that hot. What will Andretti do for F1? They won't be much more than those teams, so Andretti will do f all for F1 as a whole. I can fully see why the other teams aren't all that interested.
I don't think it's him putting Liberty in their place.....it's him putting FOCA in their place. Liberty have been pretty upfront about wanting another American team.
Quite miss the 'chaotic' period of F1 in late 80's and early 90's, where there were various of backmarker teams and cars driven by unknown drivers and trying their best to just pass the qualifying, in order to race in the next day 😅
Indeed. It made it feel like F1 was a place people actually WANTED to be and had to fight to get into, rather than a fenced off medieval castle full of exactly 10 peasants.
The field spread between Verstappen and Latifi in Q1 last year at Japan was smaller than the gap between pole and third place at Japan 98. We think we want these things, but we don't. Not really.
they need to drop the "sister teams" system These kinds of "team" aren't really there to compete nor are there to add any commercial value. "they are there to support their more dominant "sister" up the grid.
I agree With the current system, we could have 10 (maybe 11) teams with the same budget, all with the potential to battle for wins In 2026, there will be 6 teams with a prime motor-deal ! 6 !! That put the other 4 (or maybe 3 if we excluded McLaren) so : McLaren, AlphaTauri, Haas and Williams in a situation of... F1.5 And so, F1 should at least ask to Haas and Alpha to have a better project for themselves in the future.
Whatever it takes to get this 11th team onto the Grid, we can't allow a system where a few rich people are going to defy the will of millions of fans and the majority of the employees that work for the existing teams.
@@acegarcia3719 Why would employees of the established teams care for Andretti, i think they don't GAF about him. And as fans we have very little to say, we are there to STFU and give our money to see the races.
If Andretti is rejected without a full and detailed explanation, simply tells Americans we are happy to take your money but we will not let those NASCAR hicks into our European gentlemens club.
Indeed and it’s even more amusing when Andretti has never owned a NASCAR team and the last member of the Andretti family to race in NASCAR retired from NASCAR in 2010 and isn’t involved in Andretti Global now because of the minor issue that he’s not alive.
If Andretti (a giant in motor racing by the way) won't actually be admitted into F1 after all this and despite fans' desire to have an 11th team, no new F1 team will ever be admitted probably for the next decade at least. If anything, maybe an entire country needs to submit an F1 bid as a country just to get in at this point.
Andretti has repeatedly shown they do not have the resources to compete in Formula 1 and the GM/Cadillac sponsorship is an empty promise. IMO the money would be better spent buying sponsorship space on one of the currently struggling teams.
After seeing the interview with F1 CEO Stepheno Dominicali conducted by the F1 official podcast, I think he will refuse their entry regardless of how legitimate their bid is. Stephano only cares about there being an exciting race for the win. Outside of that, he says he couldn't care less how many teams are on the grid. And that is a huge problem for a sport that should be willing to have teams come and go as the money is there for it. If F1 denies Andretti Cadillac, then Stephano Dominicali needs to resign.
Exactly if you have the money to build the cars you should be allowed on the grid. F1 doesn't belong to Merc, Red bull or any teams most fans are excited by Andretti joining but does that count for anything
@@davidcarroll5701 F1 might not belong to the top teams, it will be over pretty soon should they ever decide to leave. Since FOM does not want that to happen to their cash cow, FOM is more likely to listen to those teams than some outsider like Andretti.
This was a tremendous video today. As an American, my biggest fear is that F1 wants our money, but wants no part of us within its system (much like European football). They've already shown that with their disdain of Indy Car in their points system, with keeping Colton Herta out, and with the current treatment of Logan Sargeant. Andretti and GM are major parts of the American motor sport scene. I might just be one fan, but I've been an F1 fan for over 20 years and not bringing Andretti on-board would entirely turn me off to the circuit. As you stated, this looks like protectionism at its worst.
I pretty much feel the same way. if F1 doesn't want Americans they can go ahead and not have Americans, but the consequences of that is that they also won't have America and its huge market. It's one or the other. Haas on its own will never unlock the full potential of the USA for F1. It takes more than that.
As an American and motorsports fanatic for many decades, I couldn’t agree with you more. They have to understand that the F1 growth in America has baked in our expectation to participate beyond an American owning a Ferrari customer team based out of England or the occasional American driver with a back marker team. When Americans realize our money is more than welcome to watch, but not good enough to participate, it’s the Bud Light story for F1 in America.
@@hagamapama Since you don't care for Haas apparently, would you care for Andretti if they go down the same path? After all, Andretti is trying to get a deal for Renault engines, the worst engine since the hybrid regs came in. If that goes through, Andretti will be no better than Haas, probably worse.
sorry but, i didnt get the idea, why usa needs an second dissapointment? there is nothing indicate to success for andretti. espescially team doesnt have any factory for producing chasis and some other factories etc. maybe you didnt get the requirements. andretti, if the things goes very well for them, may be they became an mid section team in next 5 years. there is some examples for this. toyota spend countless amount of money for nothing, mercedes bought brawn gp and spend billions until team became competitive. f1 is not and hopefully never became american style (standart chasis, standart engine, standart engineering etc) motorsport. success neither reachable nor boughtable. only things andretti added to f1, more cheeseburgers more celebirty and commercials.
@@zaynkhan136 probably because with Minardi in 2005 was the last time a team owner considered it worthwhile to sell a team. You cannot expect Andretti to be able to buy a team simply because they want to, that's pretty arrogant behaviour. Also with Sauber and Audi, there were heaps of discussions of terms for how to run the team after aquisition and compromises to meet both parties' demands. If no set of conditions were sufficient for either Andretti or any given team on the grid - no sale. Same with Marussia F1 in 2014 and Honda F1 in 2010, Andretti had chances to buy a team then.
The other F1 teams will try to squeeze as money as possible out of this situation, and they will come up with the most shady and disgusting arguments why Andretti should not join. In general all those F1 teams should have no say in that what so ever.
Why as their future, money and prestige relies on the good running of the F1 machine... instead of Liberty Media's drive for US domination and its bank balance... and how would 22 cars on the grid be better than 20 ? !
I counter, teams like Ferrari made f1 f1, there is a reason why gt championships are not as big as f1, they have the right to speak when some new guy just decides to come in when things are good like Toyota did
@@mehakmehak7342 All Toyota did was spend money for little reward. Any sport with manufacturer support is always going to attract companies and lose them on a regular basis. Honda have been in and out of F1 several times and Renault never seems to know what it's doing (I think that was the reason Alonso left them after he won the two championships with them). I think while the teams that would be affected most by a new team is not the top teams but the midfield and back of the grid teams where (assuming Andretti is a midfield team at the least) there will be less chance to get into the points which will generate income in the Constructor's Championship.
@mehakmehak7342 and Ferrari definitely doesn't want another team to potentially knock them farther down the grid because "Ferrari made F1 F1" and therefore deserves to be at the top regardless of how they actually perform. Hell, Enzo himself didn't want ford on the la mans race because it was for his company not some American company. Why would spectators want to see competition among the teams when they should want Ferrari and those other teams only.
I think F1 and the teams are panicking a bit now. They set a bunch of insane hurdles, believing nobody could ever make it through them all. But now Andretti shows up, gets the FIA's approval, and has GM backing. Now F1 doesn't know what to do, now all those fees and resource requirements are pocket change because they're dealing with a company as big as GM.
If teams are so “worried” about diluting the revenue, make it so only the top 10 teams in the WCC get any money. That ensures new teams are confident in their ability to be somewhat competitive, or at least confident they have enough backing to climb their way up the rankings. And if the teams are still “worried” about that, then they are simply saying they aren’t confident in themselves to the point they think a brand new team can knock them out of the top 10.
While F1 can say "add value etc", this runs very close to anti-competitive laws. F1 will want to avoid looking like a closed cartel because the EU has been very actively involved in anti competitive practices. Indeed any new entrant can claim - "it is not my job to increase the value of other teams or the sport in general. My job is to win races and make a profit as a business". F1 can say it is "safeguarding the interest of the sport" but with the FIA saying that Andretti meets the sanctioning body criteria, it might have a hard time passing EU scrutiny if the sole or main reason for turning down Andretti is "the rest of us make less money". That is the ENTIRE point of competition and the very heart of anti-competitive laws.
I hope they do deny Andretti, So that EU can come down hard on them with anti competition laws And set a precedent going forward that basically forces f1 to accept new teams if they're deemed competitive and viable
@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 Ferrari, Haas and Alpha Tauri have at least some of their facilities in Italy (though Alpha Tauri seems to be moving to the UK soon), though Alpine's factory is in the UK its Renault engines are built in France, and while Sauber is currently set up in Switzerland it will move to Germany when Audi takes over. So it may affect up to half the grid in some way.
And all the good reasons And/Cad should be allowed sounds like Opportunism and Greed... For nearly a decade the 10 current teams have kept F1 afloat, and no-one wanted to join. Teams have even been for sale and no-one batted an eye. And now that there's money to be had teams are suddenly lining up for a piece of the pie? Piss off...
@raycodv267 Got it, F1 is happy to rake in money from the new popularity in the U.S. market, but has no intention to allow real U.S. representation. I feel HAAS exemplifies the point you're trying to make. The race pedigree of Andretti and GM has a legitimate place on the grid.
@raycodv267 They reworked the rules to be sustainable, affordable and attractive for new teams to invest, then get angry when new teams want to invest. Make it make sense
I personally support the idea of having 11th team on the grid for two reasons - the more competition the more fun and its gonna save a couple more seasons for Danny Ric on the grid
I support "the more the merrier", but that's not what you have at present. What you now have is 5 teams and their 5 sub-teams. Me thinks it's time to break up this nepotistic mish-mash and have 10, 11, 12, however many can afford it teams on the grid. I might go as far as to suggest 20 one car teams, then you wouldn't have two team drivers taking each other out of a race, no team orders, just 20 guys going balls to the wall to win.
2010 - Lotus, HRT and Virgin? 3 new teams in F1. I don’t remember any of the teams opposing new entrants then. Some of them couldn’t hit 107% qualifying. Something about the last couple of Concorde deals. Suspicious it’s now a closed shop
That’s because the financial crisis of 2008-9 killed several teams. F1 wasn’t in the position to reject any one. Now f1 is the most profitable it’s ever been.
@@rexthewolf3149 I only had a passing interest in f1 until 2010. Sorry I messed that up. Still think even if new team is willing to pay the 200+ to get in. So with the budget cap, do some of the ‘historic’ and top teams earn more now than they spend? Ie RB, Merc, Ferrari, McLaren and Williams or has this all changed?
I get the teams complaints, but I think all the fans would agree a new team that is bringing real potential is positive. It will be messy if the teams shut this down in respect to the fans IMO.
The cars now are so big it would just cause more clutter and will make it harder to overtake cause the lack of space. There is no good American drivers and Cadillac won't be able to compete in engineering with the European teams.i don't see how this would benefit the fans ar all. Another back marker team
I wonder at what point do the European Commission get involved and start looking into F1 and it being a closed shop? Okay the teams are based largely in Britain but we have similar laws here. However the FIA is French, and it makes me wonder if anyone in Brussels is watching this closely. The EU is going after big monopolies on all fronts recently, after all so... Makes me also wonder if it'll dissuae any new teams from jumping in having seen what, publically, Andretti has been put through
@@Incomprehensiblue ? A "private racing event" is a group of friends renting a track for a day. F1 is a business and subject to more regulation as such.
Now you need a video on all the potential legal issues. Is this going to come under the EU's aegis for example, is it going to be in the American Courts because of Liberty Media? Or might it even come under the London courts. Let's face it, the potential legal battles will be much more exciting than the on-track action this year.
I suspect that all opposed are fully aware that people with the skill, historic track record in motorsports worldwide and public profile of the Andretti family , have the potential in tandem with GM to do a very good job. My interest always used to be in new teams arriving and progressing (or not!). The attitude of the present closed shop f1 appears to be ‘if I can’t win then I’m not playing’. I would love to see Andretti and others destroy the present order.
Can someone explain to me exactly what value Haas brings to the table? Buying the absolute maximum of parts they are allowed to while not pushing any boundaries and not even giving rookies a chance.
If Andretti gets rejected by the FOM it'll be a case of a few rich guys defying the will of the vast majority of fans and the employees that work for them. That is a proposition unacceptable for a functioning sport and therefore everything has to be done including legally if necessary to get this 11th team onto the Grand Prix Grid.
Let's not pretend competition is a concern for F1.. they will resist competition around every corner, especially if it's American.. especially if it's GM.. They don't want anyone messing up the order of their parade.
Remember when people used to rock up with a Ford V8 in the back of something they made in a lockup? They turned up to go racing, sometimes without sponsors. Bring value? You mean make us more money. The sport part of this died a long time ago
I get that teams are not happy about new teams entering but why would they sign the concorde agreement outlining ways on how teams can join and then not honor it? Then don't even have a "pay X amount and provide a good business case" clause if you don't want people to take you up on the offer.
As a fan located on the Andretti side of the pond, I really want to see Andretti F1. A team back by Andretti won't be at the back of the field for very long if ever.
You don't always get what you want in life. And yes, Andretti will stay at the back for several years, that rebadged Renault engine won't do much for them.
So was the Nordschleife. So were cigarette ads. So were the V10s. But those things are gone and everyone moved on. The same will happen with Williams within the decade.
@@cell172 If Williams keeps the current trajectory going I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to last past a decade. The budgetcap + Williams recent influx of good cash via good backing + gaining popularity of F1 and total worth of the sport, it would be an insane dumb move for Williams to sell their team. Even if they would be dead last every year it's still worth it as a brand to be in F1 in the current era. Some things would have to be adjusted probably and they should do more brand stuff but they could very well easily survive.
The problem was never really with the FIA or even Andretti in the first place. There has always been a fundamental battle between FOM/Liberty Media and the teams about who's gonna chip in on the diminished price money bill. Because if it's up to the teams, Liberty Media might end up compensating out of their own personal F1 income if necessary to make sure the price money per team stays equal. Whereas Liberty Media wants the teams to bear some of the burden if it comes down to it. Of course, neither the teams nor Liberty Media speak loudly about this looming conflict because Plan A for both still is to have Andretti pay all of it.
Hear me out. This could absolutly be the key to fully blowing the sport up in the US if Andretti gets in. Which means a lot more possible sponsors, veiwers, and maybe even future drivers.
What if Andretti/Cadillac gets in and in 5 years they are fighting with the back markers? Won't Cadillac pull out and leave Andretti to go at it alone? The only way would be to oblige Cadillac to stay in at least 10 seasons, but that might mean that they are less interested in taking the risk
Rejecting Andretti is proof enough that F1 is a circus and not a sport. With the cost cap in place, it's the first real time in F1 where the teams can be profitable and not just a break even enterprise, and I think that's why there's push back. Andretti and Cadillac have shown they're committed and I can't think of a clear reason to reject other than the teams looking at a threatened bottom line.
You mean a circus, like Indycar or Nascar, where crashes provide all of the entertainment and the winner is decided like it is in a lottery, not the best man/team winning. Trying to make a deal with the worst engine manufacturer in F1 since the hybrid regs is not commitment, it shows all the signs of a moneygrab. Trying to cash in on the current success and jump ship quickly as the results aren't as expected. Because i can tell you one thing, Alpine isn't going to win anything with that shitty Renault they run, neither will Andretti.
F1 teams agree any new team has to pay $200 million to enter. A new team comes and pays the 200$ million. F1 teams: 😧, no, it has to be higher. Well, Andretti has not pay it, but they know it can.
they have to prove they are a serious beneficial addition, along with lots more. Cadillac is a huge car manufacturer and on top an American one at that, and seeing as there's 3 American races this year it makes sense why they'd favor them.
I think it's smart becouse if 10 teams & f1 says no it will ruin thier images, while others teams are just gimmick in first place which can't be that competative
Because they have money, layed out plans and a development timeline in place for their 2025 entry and beyond, the other ones probably failed in one of these aspects
With the cost cap being a thing, teams shouldn't be feeling that pressured by another team giving it a go. If they're gonna keep it to 10 teams, then at least throw out the ones that just don't work. Haas for example.
The field spread today, between first and last place - is on occasion smaller than the the gap between first and third was in the nineties. None of these teams are useless, none. And new teams should be very, very careful what they wish for.
How does Williams not contribute to the competition when they've risen several spots in the championship compared to last season and regularly challenge for points?
Lets not get ahead of ourselves, especially with a new drivetrain. In the long term, absolutely. I haven't seen a brand new drive train introduced to F1 that didn't have significant teething troubles so the first few seasons might be... more storied than glorious. Interesting question for me is how Haas responds to the new American drive trains (both Cadillac, and nominally Ford RBPT) and whether American-ness is enough for Gene to walk away from Ferrari.
It's not that Haas is trash being the reason why Americans don't like Haas. It's because Haas is just Ferrari's B team. They don't feel like OUR team as Americans. We want a team run by Americans, backed by Americans, and who doesn't answer to someone like Ferrari.
@EntropicExergy true I get it. But how mad can they be when someone wants to follow the rules that they agreed to. Either way I think andretti will add a lot of value to the sport. And they can make a Netflix season about andrettis first year to market it. Just seems like f1 wants the American market/money while also saying screw you to the American public
@@pepperenis95 Those rules were agreed upon in 2020/2021 and things have changed quite a bit since then. Can't fault the teams to try and update said rules to fit those changes. And if the Americans see that as a screw you, then that is simple misinterpretation. From a business POV, it makes perfect sense that they do. They are in it not only for the sport, money is what makes the world go round at the end of the day.
@EntropicExergy yeah I agree with you. It just seems like the other teams are greedy and I know the sport has gained lots of popularity, but they were willing to let anyone in before without a thought. Look at manor and virgin. But an f1 champion name like andretti you would think would be a shoe in but it's like they don't want him in. I like the idea of him getting in because it's more seats for new drivers
@@pepperenis95 And ever since that debacle they learnt from it. By doing so, they now want to gauge how serious any entrants are by having a buy-in of over half a billion. And don't think Andretti isn't greedy, that's his very motivation too. He was nowhere near interested when F1 wasn't as profitable, which means he does not care much about F1 as a sport contrary to the current teams who stuck around ever since.
This feels like protectionism with greed as the excuse. With 7 teams having some base in the UK and all in Europe, they just don't want a purely American team. They want F1 to be a globally viewed sport, but owned by the UK/Europe. They have no intention of F1 being a truly global sport, which is why Sulayem was more than happy to put them in this position and expose the elitism
It would be a massive disappointment if F1 rejects Andretti Cadillac and, for me, will undoubtedly adversely impact my view of F1 overall. It will be completely unsporting and based solely on greed.
@@EntropicExergy No, I wouldn’t say that. Andretti Cadillac is applying for an opportunity with a set of rules and requirements established by F1/FIA. F1 would be reneging on their own agreement because someone inevitably followed through successfully (doesn’t have to be Andretti Cadillac, they just happened to be the first team to clear the pre-established bar).
@@Alecd2023 Trying to alter the agreement because the circumstances have changed is not reneging on it. That opportunity does come with a responsibility towards the sport and the teams want to make that responsibility fit those circumstances. They have been there when F1 wasn't as hot as it is today, they have paid their dues by investing when said opportunity wasn't clearly there. It only makes sense that they want Andretti to pay his dues to safeguard their own interests and have him show it's serious. If he leaves after a couple of years of being a backmarker/midfielder, it was never serious to begin with.
Andretti and Cadillac will move the needle in the US. My father and grandfather both perked up at this news, just pulling in a fraction of Indy and NASCAR fans is a huge win. With 3 races In the US they already know the potential. A red White and Blue car and GM marketing would be enormous to the demographic they want. Along with GM comes the other sponsors. Turning it down would also sour the fan base they have started to build.
I have a feeling that I should enjoy my fandom while I can. If Andretti doesn't get in, I am out. Such a shame, as I only began watching in 2021 and have fallen in love with it. But, if F1 does F1 things, I will walk away.
It's just soo funny watching F1 push into the US yet can't make an exception for a truly US team, not to mention why they wouldn't have a team named after one of it's WDC.
It is undeniable that there is vast room to expand America's F1 footprint. Denying the US a second team when Great Britain arguably has 4 (Williams, Aston, McLaren, and for all intents and purposes Mercedes) would be a terrible look. I think it's pretty clear that Cadillac has already started work on Andretti's drive train and will push to get that accepted regardless of what happens to Andretti itself, simply in a bid to recoup their investment. Also Ford now owns the RBPT motor. Denying America 2 teams when they have 2 competing drive train manufacturers would be absolutely silly. Bottom line, this is a battle that F1 would be very wise to choose not to fight. But with the amount of bullheaded Brits running things in F1, expect them to do the exact opposite for the worst and most blatantly selfish reason.
Honestly, everything else aside, Andretti Cadillac would be an excellent addition to the F1 grid. Being a US based team, with two names beloved by the American auto fans part of the team, it would draw more viewership to the sport from the country, not to mention would also be good for Liberty Media (a US based company). There would be enough of a value add that the prize pool would expand enough to make the split in revenue negligible at best
Since Andretti will not be anywhere near being competitive for wins or the championships, their attempts at getting a Renault deal heavily points towards it, no American will be interested apart from the ones that already are. Since that means no growth, Andretti has no added value. So why is Andretti such an excellent addition, because i see no reason for such a statement at all.
@@EntropicExergy idk what you mean, just having an American driver in F1 on a non American team brought a lot of people to watch. Imagine a US team, and F1 needs to capitalize on the recent trending growth of F1 in America
@@procharliee5575 Since i posted this in English, that is a you problem. No, it did not, Sargeant hasn't brought all that much. Indycar and even Nascar are bigger than F1 in the U.S., you clearly do not understand the sports culture in the U.S.. But hey, we European fans of F1 don't care much for F1 growing in the U.S. if it means we get less of that cringe stuff like the opening ceremony in Miami this year with that ridiculous driver presentation.
The race and the use of the word “inevitable” is a true love story. I would bet the reason the FIA made this announcement is to nudge the teams to approve the expansion. If it fails, everyone has egg on their face but if they approve it is water under the bridge.
It's insane to me to think bringing a new team in, especially one named Andretti/Cadillac wouldn't bring in a ton more eyes and therefore money. Also year after year the revenue has to be increasing significantly... With the addition of Miami and Vegas more eyes, especially in America, are on the sport than ever. This would only add to it... None of this is down to profit imo... I believe Toto and Christian don't want more competition... Also, I don't understand what's "owed to Alpha Tauri, Haas, or Williams... They're in at the best time in F1 history monetarily.
I can guarantee if it was a team like Brabham or even an f1 team that has been in formula 1 in the past and was successful. They’ll let them in in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't say that. There were a couple efforts to revive Arrows over the past decade or two, all of them rejected. And Arrows checks all the boxes, including the ultimate golden "THIS GETS YOU ACCEPTED EVERY TIME" box of *being a BRITISH racing team* British racing teams don't just get special treatment, they get all the special treatment ever and then sone, and more, plus infinity. And beyond. For a start. It still wasn't enough.
Once they admitted it's about shares in the revenue pool, the existing teams have made it abundantly clear they only ever want the grid to shrink, not grow. By the way, what would Brabham's success that ended about 40 years ago (followed by a rapid decline to massive suckage before folding completely 30 years ago) have to do with whether they would be any good now?
@cakewolf44 been watching f1 since 2007. And Andretti have a lot of motorsport pedigree over in America with Indycar and the family name runs strong. Why wouldn't it work over here in f1?
Every single fan wants a new 11:th team. The only Value a new teams should have to add is that of new excited fans. It's a competition between manufacturers to see who can create the fastest car under a certain set of rules and regulations. If a team can prove that they can do that, and also prove that they have the finances to keep up and make it a long term partnership, that should be it. This is so not about new teams wanting to cash in on F1, as it is about F1 wanting to cash out.
The rules state that there are 12 teams MAX. There are ten. Andretti has the funds, has the name, the other teams should eat cake, and Andretti let in per the rules.
Ultimately, I think they’ll be allowed in for the simple reason that F1 teams’ given excuses are a sham and don’t hold water under examination. The real reason isn’t that Andretti/Cadillac will dilute total earnings - quite the contrary, they will grow the pie. The real concern is that they will actual be competitive and will not only take more at the top end of the earnings distribution but they will also come to dominate American fandom.
The same excuses Andretti uses to get in F1, yet because they add some backmarker/midfield seats that doesn't count any more. Your double standards are showing quite a bit.
Haas was always confusing - a supposed American team, with no American driver and hardly any Americans employees, based in Europe. Also a lot of people (me included) assumed the Haas name was somehow connected to the very well-known and successful Newman/Haas Indy and IMSA teams, whom the Andretti's drove for....
In my ideal fantasy world, I would have the new team race the three teams that have the lowest performance in the last 5 years, and if it wins or finishes second then take the spot of the team that finished last. 😂
