Why Aren't Longbows Used in the Olympics? 

As a bowyer who makes traditional self bows, there is something about a single piece of wood that is hand-cut, shaped and tillered that you just don't get from shooting a modern bow made from synthetic materials. It even feels different. And I started archery using modern bows. But after experiencing primitive archery, I doubt I'll ever go back.

If there’s room at the Olympics for dancing horses (aka dressage) and synchronized diving, there’s room for longbows. I would love to see World Archery field or 3D added.

*Why aren't compounds used?* ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YYZ5aDxaqmI.html This video mostly addresses why _modern_ recurve is used over traditional recurve/longbow. Compound *is* used in modern competition. It's lack of inclusion in the Olympics is more to do with the Olympic program schedule. Archery was re-introduced into the modern Olympics in 1972, before compound competition was a thing. Inclusion in the Olympics is an uphill battle as there are logistical and financial issues with expanding the Olympics to cover more events. Compound (and barebow) are used in World Archery events. *That's not a musket. It's a blunderbuss.* I know. It's a prop from an older video. I don't actually call it a musket in this video, only that I "raise the point about...muskets". I don't have a musket lying around. The point is that insisting archery goes back to medieval traditional bows is like demanding that modern sport target shooters go back to muzzleloaders. Those tools were made for a practical purpose first, not a sporting purpose. The modern sport uses purpose-made equipment.

A little touch of irony that I just noticed. The bow in the logo for the archery venue at this Olympics is a longbow.

Have missed your videos. Love them. You have a way of talking that doesn't get tiresome after a while and I do love how you explain both why and why not things work as they do

Why Do Olympic Archers swing their bows? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8rMueNtXrAs.html

This guys RU-vid archery channel has outlasted almost all his peers!

Welcome back Nu. Missed you and your informative videos. Hope all is well and looking forward to more content from you.

I wish the Olympics broadcasting would give a better appreciation of distance and arrow flight.

For a newbie like me, there is some brilliant advice and information here. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.

I'm really glad to see you posting a new video. I was a little worried for a bit there.

I would love to see traditional archery, as well as standard rifles/pistols in their own competitions. My thought is to add to the fun, while at the same time having the precision equipment too.

Archery has not changed, it's the Olympic games. The Olympics changed from the practical warrior skills to impractical repetition skills. I left paintball as it passed from hunt and shoot with less than 25 balls a game on many acres of forest to tournament spray and pray with thousands of balls a game in a small field. Skill requirement are there, but are different and no longer on a practical standpoint. I am now getting into archery and practice daily with a longbow. Rest assured I will never get into anything with stabilizers and/or sights.

I for one, would very much like to see blunderbuss marksmanship in the Olympics.

People look at all the gizmos and trinkets like stabilizers, carbon fiber, aluminum, fiberglass, and a sight pin and they immediately draw a connection to compound bows. But it couldn't be further from that. You still have all the shooting difficulties of a barebow but you now have a more stable platform and a aim reference point.

I would never buy an Olympic bow, you guys are awesome but just not my thing. Long bows and hybrids all day

I coughed up my drink when you pulled out the musket. A question I've often asked is, 'why isn't there compound archery in the Olympics?'

When I first started skateboarding, I a had tail guard, side rails, risers under my trucks... which all were ditched in time until I was riding the bare minimum, deck, truck and wheels. First started Lacrosse wearing a helmet, gloves, arm guards, chest protector, rib guards and a cup. The last two years in high school I wore a helmet, arm guards and gloves, the rest just slowed me down, just dealt with the cuts and bruises. I can't deny that I am much more accurate with my Samick ILF barebow but I feel much more unencumbered and natural when shooting my longbows. I guess it's who you are, I love them both in their own ways and couldn't pick one from the other. Thanks for the great video, cheers!

I think traditional archery is more about agility and dexterity and recurve (and compound) more about accuracy and focus.

That's not a musket, it's a blunderbuss 😁 Glad to see you back, man. I'm not into sports, or Olympic archery, but this is the only Olympic discipline I don't mind watching. It is kinda fun to watch 😊 Olympic bows are far from ugly. They are quite eye pleasing in my opinion.

Glad you are back @nusensei

Great to see new content.

I see it as similar to sports fencing vs swordfighting, and I get the reasons why they are different but I do find swordfighting and traditional archery more fun to watch.

Thanks for making this video. I haven't picked up my bow in almost a year thanks to covid. I can't wait to resume archery and I've forgotten so much that it will be like starting over.

i saw a comment earlier of compound bows, if were talking about about modern standards and modern levels of precision, why not use a compound to be even more precise? to say that we use x kind of bow because its more precise its a bit of a logical fallacy as were all aware of the fact that theres “better” equipment to use. why not strive for precision or at least an attempt of it with longbows or other trad bows at 70 yards (or realistically if they would change it to something more reasonable). archers would adapt to that stipulation. for the reason to be why we use modern style bows because its just technologically more advanced, while logical quite admittedly, is a shallow reason. and yeah ill also throw in trad bows are way more difficult tool to use than modern equipment so itd probably make archery in the olympics cooler and more engaging for non archers cause it looks more “familiar” and objectively harder to do.

Archery is about much more than accuracy. They only hyper focus on the accuracy aspect. They could do so much more. Form, rate of fire, stamina. There is a huge difference between shooting a 50lb bow with great accuracy, and trying to put 10 arrows down range and on target in under a minute with a 120lb bow.

Great video mate, as always! Did I see MAC featured at the end there? I love that club and can't wait to visit them again soon. 😊

Howard Hill seemed to be an exeption with 198 first prices during club competition.. I don't think it is the bow. But more about the arrows, and aiming technique..

Thank you for this video. It explained very well the purpose of modern Olympic Archery. And I am glad you included that there are World-wide competitions for classic types of bows , the same as there are competitions for Muzzle Loading rifles. They just are not included in the Olympics. Different strokes for different folks. I watched Olympic Hand Ball recently which I had never heard of. Seemed like a cross between soccer and rugby. An alternative to Basket Ball where you don't have to be 7 feet tall to play.

I can see your point, but at the same time many of these sports become so distanced from their origins they are no longer recognizable. Fencing with epee 'swords,' for instance, has become so removed that it resembles an odd whipping contest than anything to do with swords. I suspect the sports that remain closer to their roots are more relatable and popular to watch. Personally I would rather watch traditional bow contests than Olympic archery.

Welcome back, recurve every day for me. Did you manage to resolve the club ground?

Thanks NUSensei . After all, the most important thing is to have fun, with whatever archery style you like ! 🏹✔👍

They were used at the early Olympics. Recurves are post-WW2 generally.

I kind of expected the video topic on being why it specifically is a recurve bow used in olympics, and why there seem to be fewer (or none?) modern, high-performance longbows used. I understand that the recurved shape of the limb is more efficient and faster than a straight bow limb, but is it the most accurate and precise method/platform of launching an arrow that can be achieved with modern engineering and materials? Would a high performance, highly advanced longbow, or horsebow, perform that much worse than a modern recurve? Also glad to see you back Nu!

If historical armies had access to modern composite materials for making their bows, they would have. Though they'd probably be using compound bows since their goal is penetrating power rather than raw accuracy since most military bows were historically used on battlefields against formations or in seiges. Context, as usual, is key.

But you could introduce traditional shooting to the olympics at a more closer distance/range with traditional bows.

snob archery......learnt that from a local club back in 1978, if you don't have the same equipment as them you are an outsider.

I still love bows made out of bamboo more than the modern bows.

Excellent presentation.

Longbows. Putting the arch back in archery.

I shoot recurve & compound and my daughter who’s a cadet shoots recurve and longbow. She shoots longbow because it’s fun. Most of the members at our club who shoot longbow it’s more about having fun and the social aspect. They don’t take it as serious as the recurve & compound shooters.

I'm a traditional shooter I use a stick with a string and I'm precise enough to hunt large and small game to me all the things they put on bows now days is cheating just shoot a gun cause that's not a bow anymore

I recognize that riser anywhere! I have that Sanlida X10 riser and working on a full Olympic setup

When I transitioned from compounds to trad a few years back I went with a couple Bear bows and I like them a lot. Their light weight and classic looks are great. I did find that I liked the Win&Win Black Wolf best of what I have shot so far. It provides the feel i was accustomed to on my compound with the traditional bare bow style I wanted and it has the benefit of better speed. As a hunter everything about this modern take on an ancient concept was appealing to me and I have loved it from the first shot. I just ordered some flat bow limbs to try yet another take on the sport and I will also pick up a dedicated riser for it as well although I havent decided on which as of yet. I think if you exclude parts of the sport for idealism you may end up missing on some amazing experiences

If your logic is correct, why the shooting don’t use scopes? Why archery don’t use compound bows? Why many sports limit the use of high tech equipments?

I think the Olympics would be more interesting if they used longbows, it would take the technology out of the sport. Not just bows but all shooting sports in the olympics using the most basic equipment.

"You wouldn't really take Olympic shooting seriously if people were still using those old muskets." Honestly, I don't take anything regarding the Olympics seriously these days, the Olympics as an event itself has become antiquated, but if there was a black powder musket/rifle event I'd be interested in seeing it, just as I'd be interested in seeing a longbow event or a hammer throw with an actual wooden shafted hammer. I think it'd be very interesting to see Olympic athletes use these outdated tools as a sort of self-handicap and see how well they perform, how they compare, and whether or not it gives them an appreciation for the current level of technology, as well as if the novelty of going old school has staying power.

There’s also the fact that even the average Olympian couldn’t pull a full weight longbow

sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on earth that thinks olympic recurve is cool af and elegant like an artform

I was going to make a project based around this idea so thanks for the extra info

Nu can you do a video about all the kinds of arrow rests and which ones are better for each purpose.

Is the pse theory a good beginner I've been learning using it at lessons and I really like it but is a good beginner bow

I wouldn't mind musket target shooting competition. This would be really based. As for longbow archery, this would simply add up to the difficulty of the challenge. Make things even more interesting.

Why don't they use longbow or even hybrid longbow(reflex/deflex) limbs with those risers?

I think they should have an OS class for traditional Longbow class, and Also one class for modern Longbows , as flat bows etc! It’s much harder to shoot a Longbow, then a Olympic recurve or a Compound bow! It would be more interested to follow a Longbow competition, then a boring Dito Compound! And shooting on a target paper is also not so fun! Shooting 3D is the thing, that is what I will do tomorrow, 3D animals in the Forrest, all in different sizes, and distances, that’s what’s fun archery!!! If there was moving targets 3D, it would even be more fun

I like how you specified target archery for recreation, social interactions, competitions, etc. as opposed to including bow hunting in the mix

I miss your archery content, man

I said the same thing, when i read the title. Birch bark canoes, flintlock rifles, big wheel bicycles, wooden pole vaults.

In facts, at very first time archery was held in Olympics, they used longbow, btw.

I agree to only an extent , the purpose of technology is to engineer to human out of it , hence modern bows , compounds. Same thing happened in muzzleloading hunting , now it’s so engineered that they cease to be what the actual purpose is. To be honest the real purpose is to get on target sooner than the decades of practice that it takes to master oneself and equipment. I admire Korean traditional archers 150 meters ?! But it is fun to watch an expert archer , no matter the format. My only point again is the technology development is to engineer the human out of it.

The difference between the musket and the longbow is that rifles are very much relevant outside sports, but bows are not. The longbow represents a tool that was also relevant outside of competition. If you argue that bows can still be relevant today we should look at fully kitted compound bows. The target recurve with sights and stabilizers is just the result of a set of arbitrary rules that has no relevance outside the sporting event. I would much rather see a true bare bow event. A standardized consistent longbow made from modern stable materials without protrusion, cutouts or shelves where "fixed distance hacks" like string walking is disallowed.

Why use bicycles in the olympics when technology has given us the motorcycle? Allowing all that crap hanging off the bows is just to even the field for people who just aren't proficient in the classic style of archery.

Best explaination 🥇👍

So, it also raises this issue: why are precision target compound bows not authorised in Olympic Archery? These compounds are just as precise, if not more so, than target recurves.

In kyudo it doesn't matter where you get your arrow, as long as they make it to the target you get a point which indicates how hard it is to shoot longbows/traditional than modern ones. For Olympics, they try to make it harder by adding a time limit (20s) and move the target further.

After COVID I absented from Archery so long that I could not drew back my own bow and I went to experience other shooting sport, namely Practical Shooting (a.k.a. Guns). And I could say only 2-3 years I had been into that sport, there have been evolutions of pistols used, despite being “practical” and there is no fancy things like in Olympic shooting (I don’t dare competing on “Open” division; the production division sees more “production”-like guns, like what you would use in home defence or law enforcement), the pistol makers always push everything to the limit of the rules, for example, the weight of a competition pistol can be exactly 1 gram less than the weight limit. It is like that for every aspect of the limits. Or can be entirely new Operating System such as Alien gas operating system which eliminates muzzle flip, etc. At the end of the day, you can only write a set of rules and the equipments will evolve to touch the limits imposed. And as long as the skill involved are more or less the same, that shapes the looks of equipment we see in various competitions today, not only for archery.

Ernie Root worked for his own company with Targetmaster/Target King that moved into the Targemaster almost as you see the Shakespeare models, then Shakespeare with the minor improvements still to the Targetmaster like some getting the attachment hole and some being Root/Shakespeare then Shakespeare, and last Eagle bows Where Ernie Root made some of the first Takedown Target bows in 1972 with all in the series being cross useable with the limbs and the parts and some of the first bows as well as the Shakespeare Targetmaster. Bear also near this time in 1975 or so Made some flat limb bows that the design was like a modern non ILF target bow and the flat limb would have become standard as it was not patented before it got copied only the riser design got the patent, if not for Hoyt with the easier universal attachment now called ILF style they did not patent made for. The later Targetmaster in the late Root or Root/Shakespeare and the all Shakespeare models all had some of the first more modern detachable shooting rests with the screw in plastic or then metal screw with plastic rest that are still made today for people to use.

The modern hunting composite bow at 70lb can bang out as much power at point of delivery as a Mary Rose War Bow of far more poundage, due to the metal limbs (as one point) not taking as much energy up in accelerating them. Now a 100lb+ composite bow, say 130lb might be an interesting for the Olympics and absolutely terrifying in the mount of power it can deliver, with the right ammo of course. 70lb is just easier to pull but against a Medieval War Bow (high poundage long bow) the modern composite bow and equivalent ammo is it's equal.

We should have an ordinary person competing in the Olympics as a point of reference for skill

"... precision ... people wouldn't take the shooting sports seriously if they were still using muzzleloaders ..." Guess what dud, Muzzleloaders were used fo competiton out to 1,010 yards, and are capable of sub minute of angle groups at that range. In the 1873 to 1910 period, the .45-70 was a popular black powder cartridge shooting a 350 to 500 grain bullet, used in internatonal shooting matches to 1,010 yards. Not some high speed light recoil small or medum bore, Again, 1 MOA and less groups - WITHOUT using a scope. Iron sights only. I for one would lke to see international and Olympic bare bow competition. Even if the range was "only" 50 to 70 meters. Bare bow takes a lot ore skill to shoot than a bow with sights, stabilizers, arrow rests, plungers, clicers, and all the other B.S. they stick on the recure bow. For that matter, why not compound bows to 100 to 125 meters? Most non competition archery users (hunters, plinkers, etc) use a compound bow. They cannot relate to a recurve bow, any more than they can a longbow or Mongolian/Turkish/Korean horse bow. Your excuses why no longbow/bare bow are B.S. If nothing else, they could reduce the range by 10 to 30 meters, using a target with a reduced x ring size. Perhaps a 25 meter pistol target at 40 to 60 meters? Indoor archery (World Cup and Olympic) are shot at what? 20 or 30 yards? Compound bows can be used for indoor archery, and Field Archery. Why not to 70 meters? People would still watch the copetitions. They watch the indoor matches, don't they? (An aside: A lot of "casual" shooters shoot in local, state, and regional indoor and 3D competitions. Some of the 3D compettions have targets out to 125 yards. Longer than an (American) Football field. Why not barebow for indoor competition? I gave up at 3:39. I couldn't take anymore of you B.S.

I think not longbows specifically, but primitive archery community, who makes selfbows (which include longbows, Native American, various flat hunting bows used from vikings to eastern style, some having different components) and also shooting competitions/events. Which there's using diffferent terrained enviroment like trees, different elevations, kneeling or standing, etc. It is very much 'instinctive shooting' at usually either sort of semi-targets or 3D animals, hunting basically. It fits more the longbow category. It does require precision too, but you have to take alot of other things to account.

To be fair I really enjoy muzzle loading black powder rifle shooting competitions and even though it's pretty niche I take it seriously.

Not really surprising why Olympics use modern recurve instead of tradition after getting into archery , what really curious me is that why Compound bow wasn't. Time have changed , obvsly , so why not compound bow considered an option? It's like the ultimate & hunting specialize version of bow.

Ah, never thought of it that way.

I am much more impressed if an archer is able to pick up a simple bow and make amazing shots with it, without all the complex stuff. I'd rather see that than the modern sport version

good stuff

I would take the old 144 arrow 90, 70, 50 and thirty metre FITA Olympic archery of old like the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics won by Darrell Pace over the current commercialised 'made for TV' Olympic games archery at 70 metres any day of the week, I'm glad I moved over to field archery lol

Short answer: bureaucracy and the IOC is lazy/because the IOC said so. Saved you almost 10 minutes of your life.

Hi nusensei 🤠. I took up archery again after a 30 year hiatus. Shot 70lb. longbow, bought 45lb recurve. 4 years in my current set up is a hoytt 23" riser, long limbs, overall length 68" Got 55s 50 42 . Longer length, easier draw, faster arrows .[The 55s shoot218 fps] I desiged my own arrowrest for my favorite arrows, vector 600s chopped so they're 575s. Recently switched to 3 under easier to align right down the arrow shaft. comparable to iron sights on a rifle. On a Jake kaminski video he outstandingly shot 50m target bullies with barebow!! At a points he used 5 second draws. [guessing 34-38lb. limbs] Next stop get a pair of sms 38s, longer hold , accuracy experiment. whats your favorite lb, for hours of barebow[recurve] shooting?? great Instructional vids throughout the years-thanks!

Short answer. Because someone in some arbitrary organizing body arbitrarily decided that in order to standardize competition, "this" is what we will allow and "that" is not okay.

I think I heard every instinctive archer sigh at this video :)

It would be good to have classic bows and flintlock added to the Olympics. Would be neat to see someone out there with a English longbow against a steppe hornbow, or Apache flatbow. Or A Brown Bess against another smoothbore flintlock musket. Sling should be added also. ( not slingshot but sling)

Less precise tools introduce more randomness. At the highest levels, nobody wants randomness to decide the winner. Now, if I'm playing bocce in my backyard with family, and we're just wanting to have a light, breezy game, then the little bumps in the lawn that occasionally mess up my shot are just part of the fun. But if I'm playing bocce and I care a lot about who wins, I'm going to want a premium bocce court.

Excellent informative video....What is your understanding of why high performance longbow limbs are not used on the ILF Olympic risers? My limited experience has been that the longbow limbs noodle when exceeding a 19" riser.

It's a lot easier to start training or just having casual fun with a compound bow. A regular bow(even with a lower draw weight) can be very difficult to draw and hold for an amateur without proper training. As you get better at it through technique and skill you can start drawing more powerful bows. There probably aren't too many people around today that can properly draw and aim a 210lbs longbow to begin with.

Very nice Video. The thing peoples are baffles about the most when they try to shoot with my FITA-Recurve Bow is, how heavy it is. Most peoples are not even able to hold it steadily long enough to aim a single shot. It is a bit like the difference between a hunting rifle and a sniper rifle. Both are designed to shoot at targets that are at medium to high range, but a hunting rifle has to be carried a long time and has to be maneuvered in and aut of vehicles. A Sniper rifle is exclusevily designed to be the most acurate and durable, and therefor a lot heavier, because the mass/inertia of the weapon (bow and rifle alike) has a lot to do with follow through, and being as steady as possible. Which are both crucial for maximum accuracy.

this was a good question getting very good answer. thanks :D

While I definitely get your point, they‘d shoot compound at the olympics following that logic, as that is the most advanced bow-system nowadays. I guess there’s still more to it. I enjoy watching events featuring different bow-classes way more anyway.

Have you ever shot a 1968-70 Bear Tamerlane HC-300?

Well now we need blunderbuss division in the shooting events...

Why dont they use longbows? Answer: people like to see archers actually hit the target

Blackpowder shooting should be an olympic sport too.

Point taken but i think barebow should be considered at different ranges and different draw weight classes i think it would be popular.

Not only should longbows be used in the event, but the competitors should have to make it themselves over the first few days of the olympics.

hey sensei, upload more often won't ya

I've shot traditional wooden bows with people who are into that side of archery and I get the appeal of it, but a modern recurve in my opinion is a better bow. The analogy of a classic vs modern sports car is spot on, although I would still like a modern sports car without traction control, ABS etc. Which is why I shoot a barebow.

Fresh cut my g

Used compound bow for years until a friend lent me traditional English longbow and after much practice never looked back, its allot harder to master but everything is so much more satisfying, you feel the bow, and the shot so when you do make a good hit, its so much more satisfying. But it wasn't until I started making my own arrows, from oak dowels (Bunnings archery store, also started making bows for fun including layered ones), yes there is a failure rate but so cheap to make MEH, but found getting a tin of "liquid glass" mixing it 50/50 with a thinners and soaking the dowels left them still very flexible but 1/2 the failure out. ANYHOOooooo long story short, traditional longbows are more fun.

Awesome Video Are you going to do a video about the Equipment used in the Olympic Games, like the one you did in 2016? Greetings from Germany :)

there are some girls in the Olympics using the medium saker 1 (the red one) so yes, i think mostly all the men should use at least the large one unless you have very little hands.