A lot of people sadly are shortsighted just because Sauber is struggling right now. Short term issue. Audi is the long-term goal. Kinda wish they didn't sack Seidl, since he was instrumental in Porsche's return to Endurance dominance in the mid 10's.
Audi should be able to bring in better talent than Red Bull was able to at thr beginning. That isn't a guarantee of anything of course. It is F1 after all.
@@sigmablock i think seidl, more than anything could have also been one of the problems at sauber, remember he was also instrumental in making mclaren the slowest car at the start of 2022
Hülkenberg must be the most cursed driver on the grid he’s missed out on the Mercedes seat to Hamilton,Ferrari seat to Räikkönen,Red Bull seat to Perez,sacked by Renault despite being pivotal to getting them up the grid then Joins Sauber and they become the slowest team by a long distance.
@@Ruefus Move fast, break stuff. This season and next are a write off. They're putting as much resources into the next car and expanding facilities as possible. TBH they should just go over the cost cap, what is the FIA gonna do? Fine them? Woopty do, they have tons of money.
I think the biggest thing is that once Audi signed on the line, Sauber had no reason to invest any more than the bare minimum to keep the team going. They collected money from Stake/Kick, Alfa Romeo and whoever Zhou brings along, and it's FAR easier to just put it in your pocket than to invest in the team that you effectively don't own anymore. They won't get to reap the rewards in the long term, so why invest in the long term? Any other team has a driver that's constantly 30-40 seconds off the other would have sacked said driver by now. They have other drivers they could put in there. Pourchaire, for instance, even if it's a Colapinto-like drive. Or maybe Ferrari would pay them to put Schwartzman in the car for a few races. Either way, Audi created the situation by paying up front. There's no incentive for Sauber to improve. If Audi was forward thinking, they would have included a clause that for every place above 10th that you get in the constructors, it's an extra $25M or something silly like that. Give Sauber motivation to compete.
Poor Bottas... Was given a tractor, still ahead of his team mate constantly, and not being taken seriously by Sauber. Hulkenberg/Bottas line up would be fire!
They also let their drivers handle things like calling your grandma or making an origami swan before letting the car go. Sauber actually has maybe the fastest pitstop crew in F1. I heard Bottas came to pit and filed his tax returns in less than 35 seconds and only lost 7 places! That is peak F1!
Audi has mismanaged this project for a few years. Instead of integrating Sauber, they left it alone against what Seidl wanted. By the time it was too late, infighting started and forced Seidl out. Audi will need years to succeed as even with a good engine, the team has to invest a lot into aerodynamic and engineering prowess. That wheel nut issue at the start of this season was just embarrassing.
There are some parallels to Mercedes after they bought Brawn. Mercedes didn't initially realise what a year of under investment had done to set the team back, despite winning both titles in 2009. As a result, rather than the off the shelf race winner and title challenger, Mercedes had 2 winless seasons after purchasing Brawn, finishing 4th in the Constructors Championship both years and despite scoring a pole and a win in 2012 (two if you count Schumacher's fastest time in Q3 at Monaco before a 5 place grid drop from Spain was appiled), they slipped even lower to 5th in the Constructors Championship by the time they recruited Lewis Hamilton.
And that was inheriting a championship team. Audi are ingeriting the team that was and still is the worst car in the grid by some margin, never even close to sniffing points except a couple of weekends, despite bringing upgrades to the car constantly. They are not just last, they are last and dont know how to fix it
But Mercedes were inheriting a team that had a) just won b) billions poured into infrastructure by Honda c) the second greatest mind in putting together winning cars in the modern F1 era (1990+) and d) it only took them one season to realize their cheap budget wouldn’t cut it.
@@Lora_Beolab Yup, definitely mental illness to want to existing teams to not be greedy jerks and follow the rules they themselves put in place around an 11th team joining the grid.
Audi have killed off their Dakar project, the stillborn LMDH car and their highly successful GT3 and TCR customer programmes for THIS. If they don't start winning by 2028, it will be a huge failure for them.
Why do these board members always need a timeline to be champion? It just seems so naive to say "we will win a championship by year XXXX".. Instead, just plan to do your best every year and see where it takes you. Timelines in F1 do not work.
That's because corporate types are brainwashed to operate in 5 year fantasy lalaland plans. No normal person structures their life, or even a business like that.
It took Red Bull 7 years to catch up to Merc (and that's WITH Adrian Newey), it took McLaren over a decade to win a race. So 2 years is literally nothing. Saubers best performances (in the WCC) were 2007 (2nd) and 2008 (3rd), so maybe expectations of immediate improvement are a bit unrealistic.
@@leghumper83 Sauber is an engineering company (much like Haas). Just because the founder isn't in charge anymore doesn't mean they have to rebrand. Otherwise Ferrari woudn't be Ferrari anymore (same goes for porsche, peugeot, citroen, ford....)
A huge whiff. The big difference so far though is that it’s been a lack of investment, unlike Toyota, that’s been one of the main problems so far. It’s like they believed all they needed to do was make an engine and the chassis side didn’t require investment or a coherent management plan to become a winner.
If Audi thought they could win with Sauber before 2028, they were absolutely dreaming. Any F1 fan can see where Sauber is right now, even without all the inside info Audi has. Hopefully, Binotto’s experience can shake things up though as I would love to see another team fighting at the front of the grid!
Because they didn't rock the boat, that was their only concern SauberAudi staying where they are makes no difference to FOM/Liberty, because it's maintaining the status quo
Unless you're based in the UK or Italy, where there is the depth of F1 engineering talent readily available, it's hard to be successful in formula 1. Simple
Volkswagen and Audi are both doomed as they are legacy petrol car companies with no viable EV strategy. Struggling companies which are facing inevitable bankruptcy ought not to be experimenting with pointless and expensive vanity projects.
@@Ariespradana13 I dunno it is as if they are afraid of demand or something.. At least they got the A6 EV out.. Though not in series production quite yet (2025 model year)..
I really hope they work some magic - Audi has always succeeded in everything they’ve entered and it would be painful for them to “chuck a Toyota” when they finally enter the biggest series of all.
@@mineralwater6736 it is true. Ask Toyota how difficult F1 was. Meanwhile Ferrari can go and win in WEC immediately while there’s all this talk about 3-5 year plans for winning in F1.
I think Audi made the mistake of not making the final sale price determined by the number of points Sauber had in each of these last 2 seasons. It appears that Sauber have abandoned the team since the sale and has put in zero effort.
@@FoxvalleyproductionBuying Alpine was never an option for them. Just because many think they are now considering selling, doesn’t mean they were then. Besides, with all the crazy French business and labor laws, it would likely have been a very complicated purchase on top of everything else. Even if the latter isn’t true, the team simply wasn’t available at the time nor is it now.
You also have to bear in mind that Audi is a subsidary to VW. And VW ist struggling quite big at the moment. Thinking about closing assembly plants in Germany for the first time in their history and also and quitting an agreement, protecting workers from layoffs. I think there is a chance, this project is going to get cancelled, before it even begins.
Honestly the fact they are announcing this publicly is a great sign. Toyota never seemed to get the memo that they were shit until it was wayyyyyy too late.
Except the people that were anti Andretti. The anti Andretti people kept saying that Audi has a proven racing track record....F1 will be a breeze for them!
As a RedBull fan, i honestly believe in Audi's F1 project, i mean, it would take quite few year to build a good car, but if they make the right choices maybe they will have a chance in F1
I think Binotto is on the right track, and the plan sounds good in theory. Sometimes its much easier to see all the problems from the outside, and it looks like there are a lot of basic ones that need to get aligned. In any case looking forward to seeing this team be less anonymous. If not, theres no reason for them to take up Andretti's seat.
Yeah, the Great Audi Master🅱️lan! Seriously though, I used to work for one of their suppliers. They are behind schedule, completely clueless about F1 and will suck just as bad as Toyota if not worse.
Andretti Karma: They recjected Andretti entry for lack of potential to produce a competitive car. Audi will probably not be able to do that In fact it would be surprising, given that Renault - which had been that for decades as a full team or PU provider - also couldnt put a winning car on track.
Yes, and they went for the guy who threw away race wins and a championship by making dumb decisions. Unless it is a technical role, do not appoint Binotto.
To be fair this video tells me Audi identified the problem and has started to work on it. I mean "THE RACE" said it themselves that bringing an F1 team to competitive levels is a years process and they quoted Red Bull and others, which is true. They will be fine in the end!
I like an underdog and LOVED the Alfa Romeo liveried Sauber. But i dont like Audi (having done some work with them on road car(s)... horrible, arrogant bunch), so dont care for Sauber now. They are in their deserved position. I still will Williams to do well. I did work with them back in 2001 alongside some work for Jaguar. The difference in attitude and professionalism clearly showed why Williams were one of the top teams. I can't wait for them to be back where they belong...the top.
Audi haven't even started and have already been messing things up royally. What exactly was the point of buying a team and waiting two years doing absolutely nothing with it until they get started as Audi? They should have bought 100% of the team and started full operations as soon as the ink was on the paper. They would have been much further along in getting the team to a better position by now. Another example of them just messing around wasting time is the driver situation. Just sign Bottas, he's the obvious choice. What I wouldn't give for an F1 series with no manufacturer teams, only independent racing teams.
I think that a lot of these problems to include pit stops that are so slow that a LeMans race can be ran and finished faster, are the employees. They probably haven’t gotten a confirmation from Audi that their position/jobs are secure and they are just not caring and it shows.
I can’t believe Audi is going to invest heavily in f1 considering the challenges the VW group is facing. But then again what do I know? Greetings from Denmark
There's almost two years, till they come in. And during that time, we'll be dragged through speculations like this, perfect for clicks, and nothing more. "Well, Svend, don't click then!" Well, I won't.
Lol, or bring down the standard of F1 development, tech and engineering and team managed to a level akin to a LMP1 programme, and Audi might have a chance.
Even if they would be 11th for 2-3 seasons (veeeeery likely no matter what), there is no real argument against letting them in. Except ofcourse - financial side for other teams. No need to hide that behind "legacy" or whatever crap they are trying to say.
Volkswagen and Audi are both doomed as they are legacy petrol car companies with no viable EV strategy. Struggling companies which are facing inevitable bankruptcy ought not to be experimenting with pointless and expensive vanity projects.
Given how they were sleeping at the start, at least with Döllner and Binotto they sound like they are finally straightening things out and actually progress things at a reasonable pace. Might still flop but slightly more optimistic now.
Nico has to be questioning his choices - other than that sweet Audi-funded paycheck. I can't see how Audi will be able to keep their corporate hands out of the team.
Bothas not having a drive is so strange. Driven so well this year, he’s a team player, great marketing individual, cheap, consistent….. he kinda has it all….
So, one of them is handling day-to-day stuff whilst the other one is handling big picture stuff. That worked out so well for Jim and Michael. Where would the world be without the two popes?
I’ve said it before, but Audi went in to F1 thinking it’s previous WEC programme and it’s experience in the top level of sportscar racing would suffice in preparing them for F1. They thought they could walk straight in and have a team that was well organised and a car that would be competitive. It seems they’re finding out that F1 is leagues ahead of the WEC, where technology, engineering, design and how a team is managed and run is on a different planet compared to running a LMP1 car.
Sauber/Audi squandered their start- up. They stopped development and upgrades on the current car allowing it to fall too far behind, then failed to sign Sainz. Sainz and Bottas would have made a great team. They just stopped trying and now it’s a big catch up game.
Bottas deserves better than this vacillation. A Hulkenburg- Bottas driver lineup would allow much more focus upon other areas of team development, + valuable input from two highly experienced drivers. From a marketing standpoint, Nico and Valtteri are familiar names and faces, + that helps in building an identity and fanbase for the team. Just sign VB, + you can concentrate on other things.
It's interesting to me, as a Brazilian, how different international media, such as here, and the national media treat the Bortoleto-Audi rumors. Most reports I've seen say that Bottas is the favorite to get the seat, but the Brazilian ones are all adamant that Bortoleto is the favorite. Even linking it with a new broadcasting deal for the country. While I would love to see him in F1, it would be at least weird if Sauber/Audi choose him instead of Pouchaire or Maloney as they're academy drivers
This is not Sauber fault at all. This is completely Audis fault. They basically were like since this is not powered by Audi it’s not us. Yet you bought the team. Doesn’t make sense. How does a guy you hired have to ask the Audi bigwigs for help.
I don't get it. the same corporate guy that says "I will personally be more involved in f1 more intensely" also says "f1 project will be absolutely independent"
They weren't the worst team until Audi came into the frame. They need to admit how they handled the transition created instability that lead to the team's fall, before they become a manufacturer like Alpine
Volkswagen and Audi are both doomed as they are legacy petrol car companies with no viable EV strategy. Struggling companies which are facing inevitable bankruptcy ought not to be experimenting with pointless and expensive vanity projects.
There’s a pattern with teams who’ve been in top level sportscar racing, and done well, but find themselves unable to crack F1 as a team, or just an engine supplier. BMW, Peugeot, Toyota and now Audi. But when the opposite happens, success, like Ferrari winning Le Mans twice since joining the WEC and Alpine being more competitive in their first season with a Hypercar compared to some other teams who’ve been in the WEC for longer.
Well Sauber employed Binotto, he destroyed the most iconic F1 team, what did they expect? They have to decide, they want a spot on the sport to do their own thing or they want to change colors and logos on a failed team?
This proves that despite all Audi's history and success in motorsports, it doesn't mean anything when it comes to Formula 1. Many huge companies came to F1 this millennium and failed miserably: Ford with Jaguar, Toyota, BMW (as a team they got just one victory), Honda (no victories as a team, as motorist they have their highs and lows). With Audi it shouldn't be different, they are going to struggle another year as Sauber, 2026 could be a better year but they aren't going to get victories for a couple of years more, and fight for championships maybe from 2029, but with huge competition with the top teams.
@@MrSniperfox29 Forgot about the victory of Button, my mistake. But in case of Honda is a manufacturer that leaves F1 from time to time, the last time they had the whole team (chassis and engine) was between 2006 and 2008, and in its current form as an engine supplier is from 2015.
I think Audi just doesn't care about 2025 at all, it's not under their brand name and so the pressure to have a good-performing team is quite low. They'll pour all their funding into developing a good car for 26
Volkswagen and Audi are both doomed as they are legacy petrol car companies with no viable EV strategy. Struggling companies which are facing inevitable bankruptcy ought not to be experimenting with pointless and expensive vanity projects.
