No. While -60 dBFS is technically the threshold of audibility for a human when it comes to crosstalk, the subjective experience of sound localization takes place almost entirely above -40 dBFS. What it means is that the MOTU audio interface isn't purpose built for audiophile use, but rather studio monitoring. It is exceedingly rare that a DAC for audiophiles would have crosstalk much higher than -80 dB, let alone -60. Even something as portable as the Qudelix 5k has -79 on 3.5mm unbalanced. On balanced it drops to -117 dB, which is objectively an improvement but not audible to humans.
Yeah it's not a problem unless its a problem right. Still, unbalanced literally fixes it so why not go for that? Also that Q5k is is with a load or not? They cheat a lot by reporting no-load crosstalk at the jack itself.
@@MichaelBruceShortbus the obvious reason to NOT use balanced is the cost. A Balanced desktop DAC/Amp starts at about $400, which is over 2x the typical SE setup. And that doesn't factor in extra for cables, on something that most people can't actually hear, it seems silly. The cost effective way to get to go balanced is a dongle like the 5k or BTR5/7, but after using a BTR5, I moved to single ended desktop gear. It sounded significantly better, and the imaging on my best 4 sets is noticeably better. Could the cross-talk on the MT-602 be lower than the BTR5, maybe, but it seems unlikely that -60 is better ( and that is the reported amount ).
@@ulamss5 there are a number of affordable balanced dongle DACs under $100, but I doubt the measure better on channel separation than SE price comparable.
Most balanced outputs (not all) have their output sensitivity doubled compared to the unbalanced, which may ruin FR on some particularly sensitive and low impedance hybrids like Canon
my scientific test of balanced/unbalacned was my ears telling me the the separation/soundstage opened a bit. like you said, a slight Mono/crossfeed effect. I forget if i critically checked my qudelix 5k single/balanced, but i did a/b my Shanling M2x since it was my first balanced device and it wasn't a massive night/day difference but it was obvious.
funnily enough i almost stayed 3.5mm because i liked the bass better and the M2X was a gift so I had no sunk cost to go balanced other than a cheapy $10 cable investment
I don't mean to sound like a d but I'm not sure why any of this is a surprise. Why have seen these measurements before. I still appreciate you making this content and sharing it with others who might not have a clue about stuff like this.
In practise most of the time it is not worth additional expense, but why not when that's not the case. I have mostly balanced stuff just to feel special😊
Balanced is superior, the thing is esp. in the lower end and mid-tier amplifiers, the balanced section is always made better than the single ended, they even measure better. At the higher end, you'll find single ended solutions that are built really well and in those scenarios its very hard to discern the differences between SE and balanced. In which case they might be equal but why not go with balanced where you deal with way less issues than single ended!
Quite the contrary, half the time I'm looking at specs on the cheapest DAC-amps with balanced outputs, the BAL-out has _worse_ THD+N and/or worse noise floor in uV than the single-ended. I've even seen ones where it's not even better in crosstalk, at which point... why even call it "balanced"? It should be illegal. :)) But anyway, balanced isn't always better in every way, just in crosstalk, usually.
@@d0nj03 what are you on about? Let’s look at one of the cheapest DACs you can buy. The SMSL SU-8 V2, unbalanced the THD is 110dB vs 116dB balanced. That’s a huge improvement. Even going with something double the price like the Topping D30 Pro, unbalanced is 118dB vs 128dB balanced. And yes, balanced tends to have lower cross talk as well.
Android users can test this. Not sure on iOS In settings>accessibility>hearing Drag the stereo L-R balance slider to one side and put the other iem in your ears and play music and crank the volume up.. I dragged the slider to right in my LG phone and put the left iem in my ear and played music and..... Yes I heard music faintly.
Nice test there dude. Interesting to see the bleed, though as others have said.. its lower than the threshold of hearing.. still, it is there so balanced is the way forwards, objectively xx
Measure one channel while sending a signal to both channels and compare with sending a signal to just one channel. If the crosstalk is actually bad your one measurement will probably measure louder
@@MichaelBruceShortbus Nope, not the same. The headphone driver part of the circuit and the common return/ground wire form a voltage divider that can be responsible for a lot of crosstalk just by itself: the longer the common return wire, the more resistance it has; the more resistance it has, the louder of a "common signal" (unwanted sum of L+R influencing both drivers) you will get. It is nowhere near the same thing to have a Y-shaped return with a very long "stem" to the Y, vs. 2 fully separate return wires for L and R, that only meet up at the GND terminal of the plug going into the amp. This can make a difference of up to -20 dB in crosstalk just by itself (it's around 20 if the headphone drivers are 8-ohm and about -15 dB for 16 ohm drivers, according to my quick estimates). But of course you can always do way better with actually separate grounds/returns connected to a properly designed balanced headphone-amp.
To me on balanced my S12 Pro's definetly have more dynamics than regular 3.5mm , on 3.5 they just sound dull compared to the balanced and i cannot go back.
Great video! Could you please share how have you connected the Coupler to the input of Motu? I'm using the Rode XVLR+ adaptor but the adaptor generates a harmonic at 250 hz. I'm using the Motu M4.
@@MichaelBruceShortbus I was just wondering since everyone was sharing their spreadsheet I wanted to bookmark yours as well :) I just preordered Cincotres..
you just demonstrated that there is inaudible crosstalk at a higher level in single ended output vs balanced output, and now what ? if our source has both output and we have the option to buy our iem with a 4.4mm cable at no extra cost then sure let's use balanced, otherwise we should not spend extra $ to get balanced audio as it is inaudible anyway
Definitely great to be able to measure your own gear and find audible deficiencies. Balanced can certainly be superior under certain conditions. A lot of it can come down to the amp, there are single-ended amps with low crosstalk, and there are some balanced-amps with poor single-ended implementation. Provided the cables are properly shielded, and at short lengths, cross talk can be minimized. For professional stage applications, balanced cables are essential for live mixing/recording and PA.
I just tried it on my LG phone 3.5mm jack... Went to settings>accessibility>hearing (All the Android phones have this. Not sure on ios) Here you can set the stereo balance... I just cranked it fully to right and covered the right iem and put the left iem in my ears. According to the settings there should be no sound in left iem but when you cranck volume to ~ 50% you can hear sound faintly when you play music....
@@MichaelBruceShortbusi'm waiting to see if they release a new Erish (their fully balanced amp) with the sparkos internals as Erish 2 is a 2 Dual Channel TI 1612 Op Amp Based Design. maybe you can send them a kind email :)
