I explore why Capcom decided to take fan favorite character Phoenix Wright out of the spotlight as the protagonist in the forth entry in the Ace Attorney series, Apollo Justice. Source: www.capcom-unity.com/2017/11/...
@@circularsquare4764''In his defense, capcom never localized it and you need to get the japanese version and patch it to even play or learn japanese and play the japanese version''
@@circularsquare4764 I was being sarcastic hence the quotations, its ok nothing happened and your answer is legit since in the 3rd case it is rather explained in great detail what happened on that trail and how he got off with only a penalty{It doesn't show how it went down in court but it shows how it was set to happen and why}
His disbarrement also show his darker personality too. It showed he can hold a grudge, use people and put others in bad positions, regardless of how they feel or the consequences. How Edgeworth went down a dark path, so did pheonix.
Yes that's correct. Avoiding some spoilers, he actually did some "questionable" things in the game as Hobo Phoenix that would otherwise borderline illegal. And all he has to go for as a defense is he is a disbarred attorney so he is technically allowed to do such things. But the brilliant thing about it is all the things Phoenix did is for everyone to show that the current judicial system they use is flawed and must be amended, thus the creation of the Jury System.
One thing that I love about the papa hat is that, if I'm remembering correctly, the emma pin isn't just for show. It also has a hidden camera that Phoenix uses to gather evidence
When phoenix was disbarred i almost cried,it felt so personal see phoenix in that state was hard and unfair,but even with that i still like him for the rest of the game,i personally like the route they went trough with nick making him a hobo-mentor for apollo
@@everythingisfine8635 He has 3 games (his own, Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice) and in every single game they add MORE backstory to him. I swear in the next game they are gonna make him Wright's blood son just because.
@@misttermd6299 Not actually, apollo´s most important mistery is still unsolved and it is his relation with Ladynoir and Trucy since it hasn't been concluded.
@@areaxisthegurkhaif there's gonna be a Season 3 They probably Start with Phoenix and the Skye sister case, before baton Passing Apollo I was wondering why the Anime left that out despite being an Add On to the first Game
While it’s not surprising they didn’t double down on it being ‘Apollo’s story from there on out,’ I’m also intrigued to see how things could have played out if Phoenix did maintain that role.
What I love the most about Apollo Justice, is the fact that it shows how smart Phoenix truly is when he isn't forced to follow the law. Whenever we play as him, we see him panicking a lot because he is limited ti only doing things as long as he is allowed to. I mean some prosecutors in the series literally abuse the judge but are somehow allowed to get away with it, but Phoenix always gets extremely harsh punishments for smaller things. But here, he doesn't have to follow any rules, especially since those rules resulted in him losing his badge when he was tricked, and could allow the real culprit to get away scott free due to those rules
That's what I despise about his arc. Franziska for example is free to abuse everyone in court with her whip (Larry and Phoenix losing consciousness) and it's played off as a gag. the inconsistency is really annoying
"Phoenix Wright had truly become the embodiment of an Ace Attorney by the end of that trilogy. A shining example of how to strive to be a beacon of truth and justice. To only do what's right." **Laughs in collecting evidence illegally**
Bridge to the Turnabout: Phoenix finally steps out of Mia’s shadow while still keeping the spark alive and faces the future with hope in heart. Apollo Justice: A few months later, he lost his job, all his friends either left or he turned them away, everything sucks forever.
@@DuelaDent52 Dual Destinies: Yay Edgeworth became a Chief Prosecutor and helped me get my badge back, now I can forget everything that I suffered through and become the same, dorky protagonist I was!! That's why I dislike Dual Destinies as a sequel to Apollo Justice. Standing alone? Pretty good imo. Sequel to Apollo Justice? You completely tore Phoenix's character apart.
Honestly, my main qualm with phoenix's arc is this: why become a hobo and amateur pianist? He was originally an art major, why not just make him pursue that path again? His main purpose for becoming an attorney had already been fulfilled, he should've gone back to his original dream
I think once he saved the people he cared about, he realized he actually wanted to do it for the rest of his life. Yes he wanted to help his friends that inspired him when he was young, but part of that inspiration was to continue saving those who “have no one on their side/ can’t defend themselves” so as long as he is still doing that I feel like he has not fulfilled his goal. And maybe he just liked it more than he thought he would or it became even more important to him.
Yeah right? I was wondering why they called him a hobo, if I understand that he has a place to live and also adopted trucy (and yes, I have not played apollo justice yet)
Its very interesting to see the previous protagonist go through such a negative character arc. I personally love Hobo Phoenix and I hate the 3DS games for ditching the idea. They had so much room for potential to develop him as a leader and mentor rather than somewhat regressing his progression as a character. I wish we got AJ 2 instead of DD
I agree that there was so much squandered potential in Apollo Justice. Capcom should have committed to one idea because now it feels like several characters haven’t had the time they need to be fleshed out, especially Athena. Thank you for your comment.
I liked dual destinies, and I completely understand where you’re coming from, but I feel like the only thing that really hurt dual destinies was Apollo getting that crazy backstory we didn’t need. Although Hobo Phoenix was an awesome character, it makes sense that after proving he didn’t forge the evidence he gets his badge back, it’s what makes the finale of AJAA so awesome, we’re seeing phoenix’s plan to get his badge back come to fruition. And I think he’s still a really good mentor in the newer games, and although I see where you’re coming from with Athena, I generally disagree. Athenas backstory in Dual Destinies was one of the best in the series, and now that Apollo’s gone after SOJ, I feel like the series is going to focus on her a little bit more with the seventh game.
DD was a better direction imo apollo added nothing and left no impact whatsoever in his first game. So they needed athena for him to play off of. He felt very one dimensional and that backstory in DD helped a little to make him more human. Although that stupid chords of steel joke should have died with the first game.
@@axeoseilez3207 I- excuse me? Apollo only seems to be one dimensional because he was built to be a new character. He was designed to be the opposite of Phoenix, Phoenix comes off as a badass, but in reality is a total klutz, Apollo comes off as an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s doing, but in reality is more capable and calm than Phoenix ever was or is, that’s why he does chords of steel, to enforce the idea that he comes off as a idiot. The reason he had no backstory is because he didn’t need one, it doesn’t matter what happens in his past, what matters is what he is now. He doesn’t need a backstory to be human, not every human has a backstory. I enjoyed Apollo before Like I said before, I adore DD, but I also think that Apollo’s backstory really hindered the game and dragged it down. Apollo didn’t need Athena to play off of, because he had Trucy, who in my opinion is a better partner character. I don’t mind the addition of Athena, but they should have focused the game on her, since her and Blackquills story was so well thought out. Apollo didn’t need the backstory with clay, it was unnecessary, and forced, and not even well written.
What I’m trying to argue is that every ace attorney game is a masterpiece, and no one will ever be able to tell me there is a single ace attorney game that is more bad then it is good.
Phoenix: Trucy! Thanks to you giving me forged evidence, I lost my badge! Trucy: I want to join your new agency Phoenix: understandable, have a nice day
If you were eight years old with your only living relative on trial and someone gives you something that they say is gonna help them be found innocent, wouldn't you do it?
The thing I really like about Phoenix in AJ is that even tho Phoenix became a bleak copy of himself, he NEVER gave up. And then he cornered *that spoiler guy* with falsified evidence and Apollo after trial caught him on it he responded simply with: "Well, I'm not a lawyer anymore." But damn, this move was good! Noone else, except Apollo and *spoiler guy* could tell that this evidence was fake, but *spoiler guy* couldn't said it loud, because it was another way of proving his guilt. At the same time it was a message from Phoenix to him, like "I know you the one who did this to me, here's your own medicine." And THEN, later you learn that ALL SEVEN YEARS Phoenix was collecting evidence and connecting dots together for this moment.
I'm glad people have taken a more positive stance on AJ, its characters and what it's done these days Almost everyone inluding myself used to really dislike it and called it "the worst in the series" for trying something new but the thing that makes it great is that it put in the effort to be a new saga while still retaining the core of Ace Attorney and expanding on those ideas and messages from the trilogy sometimes in a more jaded way. Phoenix included. I love this jaded take on him and it offered him a place in this new saga that he otherwise would've had no place in, i love how he's characterized and you can tell that he's still Phoenix Wright at his core even before you hear his monologues when his cool facade starts to crack and all we see is a broken man who's willing to go through any length to reach the truth and do the right thing and yet he views himself as undeserving of serving under the law because of those actions and he taunts Apollo into punching him. Phoenix isn't the best "mentor" figure to Apollo, his appproach to teaching him is different from Mia's and he's intentionally vague and coy, which of course annoys Apollo and he at times uses Apollo to his own advantage. But that's his way of teaching Apollo to see this new age of the law for what it is and for Apollo to do things on his own without much help from anyone. Apollo doesn't get *saved* aside from the 2nd case and he has to prove his own case (with a bit of assistance) I definitely wish that DD onwards continued with AJ's plot points and had a similar tone (and maybe be written by Takumi too but he was likely busy making GT and PLvsPW at the time) DD onwards having this dumb rule of not spoiling previous games and continuing its plot points just hindered the series more and made it feel more disconnected. I wish Phoenix's return to law and his optimistic output was done more gradually since it feels incredibly jarring and he feels like he regressed and even more incompetent than when he was a rookie. I rambled a lot but AJ good :) And i really loved this video and i could feel your passion for the series, its characters and how it impacted you and i can even relate to it. This definitely is quite the comeback video! I hope you can talk about AA more in the future!
Couldn’t agree more. At the time, it was easy to feel slighted by the series for taking a character a lot of people loved and throwing them down to their lowest point. But in retrospect, it only built Phoenix’s character even more, making him an intricate and intriguing individual.
Apollo Justice is my favorite game from the franchise, even though it only has three cases. (Turnabout Serenade? Never heard of it.) I love Hobo Phoenix, I love Trucy, and I love pre-edgy Apollo, although post edgy apollo isn’t bad either.
Note before the comment: I liked all of them except for PW:AA and MEI:AA. I probably didn’t like PW:AA that much because I always have to look on the tutorial instead of just watching it normally like the other games. Well here’s my list of the Ace Attorney games that I played/watched 1. MEI:AA-PP (Aka the fan-translation) 2. AJ:SoJ 3. TD (Triple Destinies) 4. AJ+PW:AA 5. PW:AA (I’m on the first trial part on RFtA) 6. MEI:AA
That's not why I dislike Apollo Justice. I don't like it being of the cases. Case 1 is a good opening case with twists and turns, I like it. No problem there. Case 2, the Investigations are extremely boring in this case, Mr Graduate Panties guy was just annoying, no redeeming qualities. Villan feather girl was ok, not the best. 2.5/5 case. Turnabout Serenade is godawful, probably worst in the series. Let's review this CGI disaster a million times and make you hate the music! Blind 14year old shoots that gun without a dislocated shoulder, drags a grown man to the stage, but yeah of COURSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD GO THOUGH A VENT THAT HE COULDN'T SEE!! Even Thallasa saw Pompador Police Guy and told the court. Then there's the smuggling stuff Idc about. Terrible case 0.1/5 Case 4 is messy, very messy. I don't want to go into it really, but ok. I think if the Phoenix stuff was case 4 and the main stuff was Case 5. Going to Phoenix's last trial was actually really cool. Going though that simulation to talk to people was weird. Like did that actually happen in the pass or idk. First trial is like 20 minutes long, and almost nothing of note. The simulation and the actual Apollo trial are competing for time and Phoenix is winning. They really should of had those as separate cases. 3/5
Honestly it might be one of my favorite games in the series. The aesthetic is great, the plots and characterization are solid and it's a big bonus to hit you in the nostalgic feels with original Ace Attorney music and sprites in the flashback case.
hobo-mentor-father phoenix is the best thing that ever happened to this series... its strange, seeing him grow up. we see college feenie in t&t, rookie lawyer phoenix, dorky but confident lawyer,, jaded phoenix, and my favourite: fatherly phoenix. his relationship with trucy and apollo, and his love for them is so clear... that part where he said trucy was his light... it made me tear up
I can’t be the only person that thinks that hobo Phoenix Wright looks hot this way. Like the scruff is super attractive with the smug attitude. The confidence is *chef’s kiss*. Him playing cards and having the status of being never being beaten is super cool, although he’s only unbeaten cause of Trucy but still. Plus he still our cute Phoenix Wright at the end.
One note to make it a little darker, none of the defendants are fully innocent, phoenix offered illegal evidence (the card) and used Trucy to cheat at poker, Wocky was an active gang member (who was in a really dark situation, I actually turnabout corner I don't understand the hate), Machi was a smuggler, and Vera was a forger
the personal anecdote at the beginning was adorable. i got into ace attorney at a young age, and the characters have still stuck with me ever since. i used to think phoenix in the first game was a cool, mature old man, and now i'm nearly his age.
It's been a while and my memory isn't great so it's quite possible my opinion changed but I remember liking him. In concept it's really cool. I wish he had a game or two more in this position though. Not only could that help out with the apollo and athena problem giving a bit more time without him in the spotlight but imagine how much of a god tier moment it could be for Phoenix to come back to the court and save the day after multiple games instead of just popping up imdeatly in the tutorial of the very next game while not even being that absent in the prior one.
Huh, perhaps it was just how young I was at the time, but I never even saw a problem with Phoenix’s story, other than that it made me sad because a tragedy happened to a beloved character.
Phoenix was definitely an important character to me growing up. I spent a lot of my childhood lurking around the Court-Records forums, making fan art, playing fan-cases, and even trying to make my own lol. He was definitely written to be a relatable character, him being your clumsy average guy that eventually, through hard work and a bit of luck, becomes a legend of his own making. Equally though, I think Phoenix going through rough patches in life was something that was important to see as well. I think it was interesting how they knocked him down in Apollo Justice, but preserved his integrity by making him wiser and turning him into a mentor figure. There were so many ways they could've done him dirty here -- make him evil, make him insane, etc. -- but to me I feel like this progression made sense. Stepping into the mentor role was really the next logical thing for him. This was my favorite version of Phoenix. Experienced, wise, but humbled. It made him feel more rounded as a human to me. A nice reminder that life isn't always happy. Of course, I always expected Phoenix to bounce and get his badge back, and I hoped this would be the case for the next game, but I didn't expect them to do it off-screen. I felt robbed watching the trailer for Dual Destinies for the first time. Much less for Apollo, but more for Phoenix's character progression. He did a full 180, and in between games too. We didn't even get to see it. He's just back, goofy as ever, as if nothing ever happened. I think it would've been much more interesting if Phoenix got his badge back within the course of the game, maybe as the last case, would've been a great empowering moment. And I think that bringing back Phoenix the way they had in Dual Destinies jeopardized the chance of fleshing out the new protagonists of the game by taking away the spotlight. Instead, they had to shoehorn in a new sob story for Apollo every time he made an appearance. Dead mom but-secretly-isn't backstory. Dead best friend backstory. Dead father backstory. And then the _other_ other protagonist has an actual dead mom. I feel like having to juggle around 3 protagonists hurt the series, given that each game is still only limited to 5 episodes, and the writing suffered for it. So yeah. My feelings about Wright is complicated. Kinda wish they could retcon the past 2 games
I agree that following Phoenix on his journey back to being a defense attorney would have been fantastic. Not many stories explore a character's fall from grace as well as Apollo Justice did.
With Apollo Justice being my first game and then onto the Trilogy, it felt like I was playing an epic prequel, seeing the rise of a veteran before the fall
I just hope if there will be a Season 3 of Ace Attorney anime, I just want Apollo Justice's arc to be covered. (Possibly the first game and maybe Dual Destinies)
Apollo Justice is one of my favorite games. I love Phoenix, and I love how he changed because of what happened in those 7 years. What I really didn’t like is that they introduced Athena just one game after Apollo. They didn’t give Apollo the time to shine. Dual Destinies is my least favorite game in the franchise, but Capcom once again redeemed itself in my eyes with Spirit of Justice, which kind of managed to balance having three main characters. Fans will never stop asking for old favorites to appear, so I wonder how that’s gonna work in the future, given there’s so many characters now.
You make an excellent point. It was a little demeaning to set Apollo up as the new series protagonist just to sideline him in Dual Destinies. That’s a topic I’d like to discuss in depth and perhaps I will someday.
@@blaze41 I think the reason why Athena can't do investigations is because Blackquill is already the witness she needed. All that she has to do is to use the evidence presented by the prosecution against them at the courthouse. She is merely just a stand-in for the agency at the America because of Apollo is being busy watching over Trucy in her Magic Show, Phoenix is still busy defending Maya in Khura'in as usual, and also Athena not knowing the case she's handling because of it being so foreign doesn't help her in the slightest.
Hobo Phoenix is my favorite character in the franchise. Hobo Phoenix SPECIFICALLY. He’s such a badass. (Not that he’s not a badass before but you know what I mean) Hobo Phoenix cemented Phoenix as my favorite character in video game history.
Great video as always! Completely can relate to the childish antics of shouting "objection" in school. AJAA characterisation of wright definitely rubbed me the wrong way at first, but I can understand that's just his character growth throughout the lows of the 7 years.
During the flashback of that case, it was so hard to get through, I teared up and had to pause it I don’t know how many times because I knew it was coming. As sad as it is, it’s true. Bad things do happen to good people, that’s just the way life is. And I also love how Phoenix matured through those seven years. I don’t think I would have it any other way, it can’t be happily ever after, because life isn’t always happily ever after.
Miles is proven to submit false evidence His boss:aw your okay Phoenix Wright:submit one bit false evidence probably by accident The law:YOU ARE FIRED AND YOHR WORK PLACE IS SHUT DOWN FOR GOOD QND YOUR NAME IS RUIND AND WILL NEVER WORK AS A DEFENCE IS OVER FOR EVER
Damn, i love this VIdeo so much. I didn't go through the series in order - basically went from 1-3 then 5-6 and subsequently went back and played 4. Which i strangely enjoyed more, than i hoped for. I've seen your last video on Apollo Justice and became concerned myself. But having seen what Phoenix and Apollo went through in 5-6, the forth entry felt kind of like a prequel well-deserved.
I really appreciate your comment, thank you. Subsequent entries in the series did make me feel less depressed about Phoenix’s situation in the fourth game.
@im not dead i just don't do stuff He would be surprised to see what happened to Phoenix, because Godot respected him by the end, after seeing Mia was living on through him. If Godot was alive by any chance, I hope he would've at least supported Phoenix morally.
@Dark Funny thing you mentioned her: When she first talked to Phoenix, she said give it three years and then see where you are. It took 3 years exactly from that speech until his disbarment.
I love ace attorney, it has inspired me to go to law school once I finish college so I can become a prosecutor. I am starting an internship at a law firm in a few weeks and I’m so glad I found this game. Wish me luck everyone!
Hobo Phoenix and Apollo are the biggest hotties in this series, and even knowing all the plotholes, I love revisiting AA4 because of the darker tone and cast of characters. Like AA4-1 is one of the best cases in the series and it's a tutorial! And the music omg Sorry I'm just going to hang out in my corner as AA4's only superfan
I feel like Apollo didn’t really get his own game. The Apollo justice ace attorney, it did follow the story of Apollo sure but it was mostly figuring out what happened 7 years ago. And we even play as pheonix once, I’m either waiting a game that’s more about Apollo, or at least a dlc or something from the upcoming 2021 game.
I agree with what you said completely! I think that a lot of how calm and collected Phoenix seems when playing as Apollo is indeed Apollo idolizing him. Surely, this lawyer that he’s been looking up to for years seems godlike to him. (Also we can’t see Phoenix’s panicky internal dialogue)
It's pretty much the same with every protagonist lmao. When we see Edgeworth/Phoenix/Apollo with the other's POV without internal monologue, they seem like they figured the whole thing out,super smug. But when we play as them, they get 10x dumber.
In order for fans to even give Apollo a chance at the time, Phoenix had to be in there. I also feel Phoenix top tier trolling the poor kid while helping to build him up is also a reflection of the attitude of the fans towards him before ultimately warming up to him, which was genius. If you removed Phoenix from the entire story and only had brand new characters? I feel this game would have tanked. Setting a good transition and allowing loyal fans to Phoenix to adjust and accept these transitions paved the way for Capcom to be able to do more with the series - such as the Chronicle games we're about to get Switch ports of. C:
In retrospect, it does seem like Phoenix’s inclusion was a way to help transition to Apollo, however I feel the execution alienated a lot of long time AA fans after the journey Phoenix went on.
What you described from your earlier days of falling in love with the series sounds so much like what I’ve been going through over the past year. The difference is that one might say I’m a little too old for such “childish” hyperfixations (just turned 31), but I’ve never in my life been so completely taken with a fandom like this one. You had your blue suits and your beanie; I’ve got my pink “Feenie” sweatshirt, plus 6 other AA-themed t-shirts, and various other memorabilia. It influenced your decision to move to Japan; I’m considering law school. It’s just nice to stumble across someone who “gets” it. As for the rest of the video, I love Phoenix’s transformation between AA3 and AA4. I think it adds a certain amount of gravitas to his character arc - like you said, life doesn’t always go so perfectly. But Phoenix reacts as many a complex human would, becoming just a bit rough & jaded around the edges, but at the same time growing and learning, and deep down still retaining his core beliefs in pursuing the truth and that justice will ultimately prevail. And then, even though it wasn’t handled perfectly (as I commented on your other video), it makes his his triumphant return in Dual Destinies all the more rewarding. Ugh, these characters are just so well-written!
It’s never too late to love something, especially a series as inspirational as the Ace Attorney series. (・∀・) If it moves you to pursue a goal in your life, don’t be ashamed to go ahead.
Depression era Phoenix was interesting, but i was infinitely glad he managed to go back to being a lawyer and to his old self in DD and SoJ. I don't agree that it "nullifies his development". It's just natural healing process, that's all. He deserves to be back
I do really enjoy Phoenix's characterization in Apollo Justice as well, but there has always been one thing that irks me about the "why" as the game follows Phoenix up from Trials and Tribulations that I feel I'm the only person who has that perspective and I feel I'm missing something. Game 3 makes a clear contrast between Phoenix and Godot of one who fought on from adversity to take on the mantle and the other who ran away after tragedy struck and hid behind himself and a layer of arrogance and excuses for his own sorrow. At the end of the game, Phoenix proves Godot wrong and Mia and Godot essentially encourage Phoenix to continue being a harbinger of truth and justice to those in need that Phoenix has grown into that position over the games. But then AJ comes along and Phoenix basically does a similar situation as Godot: running away from his role after hitting a road bump. Yes he was "disbarred" but lawyers have gotten away with lying, fabricating, and murder and didn't get as harsh as being disbarred for one fabricated evidence Phoenix had no involvement in. It characterizes that Phoenix toyed with the dark side and lost but he didn't and he didn't try and fight back like he usually does, instead conceding in losing his badge and taking care of Trucy. DD makes it worse because he has no trouble getting his badge back and still somehow has the power to rig a whole court system despite his "disbarment" Maybe he wanted to take on that fatherly, more laid back lifestyle but again he is abandoning his pride and joy. I feel there is just too much in-between time from Game 3 and Game 4 that this doesn't seem like a logical transition considering he lost his badge only months after Bridge to the Turnabout only presumably to establish that time shift or grown up Trucy. I must be missing something but I feel there is just gaps in the transition that, while personality wise still retains Phoenix as Phoenix but much more mature, but timeline and moral-wise feels contradictory to the ending of AA3. Turnabouting the original trilogy still needs some kind of connection. But I feel I'm missing some kind of connection or something because I feel I'm the only one with this issue with AJ. Maybe it's just I really enjoy the og trilogy and its charm despite my enjoyment for the spinoffs and sequals? I have no idea
You’re not the only person who feels that way. The difference in character is abrupt, rightfully shocking anyway playing the series in chronological order. It was an unfortunate side effect of insisting Phoenix be in the game. There’s not a doubt in my mind that there was room to flesh out events surrounding all the characters involved.
Here are my thoughts on this: You say Phoenix ran away after this mishap and didn’t fight back, I completely disagree. This entire game is nothing but Phoenix fighting back, it’s just hard to see when you aren’t in his shoes. Case one, he gets kristoph in jail, more out of opportunity than anything, but we know later he knows Kristoph was the one who forged evidence, and replaying the first case with this knowledge makes the dialogue between Phoenix and Kristoph have entirely different meaning. The second case, Phoenix doesn’t seem to have much impact on the case, but we know later he’s actually training Apollo’s ability, so that he’ll be ready for the final case. The third case, is, well, bad, but we also know that while we’re solving the murder, Phoenix is collecting evidence from the present, talking to Valant and Brushel, etc etc. and, hopefully obviously, in the fourth case, all his planning for the last seven years all comes to a single point, and we watch how his plan unfolds and he gets his badge back. Phoenix is constantly fighting back, he just pretends he’s given up.
My biggest issue with Apollo Justice is the time gap too, I felt that 7 years was way too much of a time skip. I think that if it had been only 2 or 3 years skiped yet the same plot was kept the player wouldve had been even more surprised at his transformation. Like what the heck, what happened to him in only 2 years? in 7 years lots of thing can happen to change us in 2 years not so much so I think it would have been much more impactiful.
@@bandicootsmwcentral2950 again, I completely disagree. Because we know Phoenix doesn’t run away from his problems, as was shown in trials and tribulations, we realize that Phoenix went seven years without being able to solve whatever problem lost him his badge, so what could be so terrible that made him go seven years trying to get it back?
To be honest I was taken back by what they did to Phoenix, but it was a really good idea. And even though Apollo didn’t get a true sequel I still consider Spirit of Justice the Apollo sequel.
Honestly, I am in a peculiar position regarding this matter. You see, Apollo Justice was my first game so I had no prior attachement to Phoenix. Which is a double edged sword because on the one hand, it allows me to see this more clearly without the bias of a fan who spent 3 games getting to know Phoenix and relating to him. I can approach it logically, not emotionally. At the same time, a different kind of bias may exist, one which I favor Hobo Phoenix over the classic one because he was my first Phoenix Either way though. I think it was brilliant writing. Not only because it fits Apollo Justice's main theme, the conflict between identity and what others see you as, but also because he feels like a natural conclusion. Someone as naive as Phoenix who always sees the good in others, was bound to be tricked by someone else in the cruel world of law he became a part. Someone self serving. And he needed to be hardened. Which is what his disbarement did His personality is also clever. Because as you pointed out it is a mix of a facade and Phoenix's sarcastic inner thoughts becoming externalized Either way we look at it though, I think we can all agree that dual destinies putting him on front and shitting on AJ's story was a mistake
I finished the first 3 games, but I couldn’t play Apollo Justice because I was scared… I knew Nick was gonna show up in the game but he seemed so different that it’s gonna break the image of him that I loved. But after watching this video I think I wanna give it a try! Thank u :D
I just got into the Ace Attorney games and I’m so upset they took such a bright future away from Phoenix ; did Phoenix know the evidence was forged? I am really happy to see a more confident Phoenix and something I love about him is that no matter what happens he always tries to stay happy and hopeful.
Hm, I've only gotten to the second case and I actually really love apollo! He's not like phoenix, really goofy and socially awkward and I think I like him because he's so relatable and if I was in his situation I'd be fucking terrified too! Imagine youre on your first official trial and then your defendant accuses your mentor of being the murderer and they have a whole ass feud you got dragged into for no reason other than phoenix wanted you to be his defense attorney
i hit the thumbs up button after all those photos you posted in the beginning because you seem like a true fan and that's awesome to me. love the custom hobonick beanie you made hahaha
I *LOVE* the Apollo Justice entry. It’s so jam packed with lore and “Dark Phoenix” was never a problem for me, because we see throughout and by the end of the game that he’s still good old Nick. Just on a mission to try and fix the broken system. I love Apollo. I love Trucy. I love the whole Troupe Gramarye story. 😂😂
I know it’s controversial, but I love this version of the character. Trials and Tribulations was the ending for Phoenix’s story in the trilogy, so if he were to return in a sequel it would be necessary to give him a new role to take as a character. Even if Phoenix’s inclusion was forced by outside agents, Takumi pulled it off excellently by putting him in a different context, showing us the changes that his disbarment brought him (while adding to his moral ambiguity) and his relationships with the new cast. He works amazingly as a father to Trucy (showing a side of him we only saw a glimpse of through Pearl) and he has an interesting and a bit rocky mentor-student relationship with Apollo. Some of the moments we get to see in the final case of the game are some of the most poignant his character has ever went through, and they confirm that the Phoenix we know and love is still there under all the mystery. I also enjoy how much wiser and mature he has gotten with time, and how he has to deal with challenges that aren’t related to court proceedings or defending a client. This is the lesson the sequels to this game forgot when bringing back the character, and they ended up having to contrive situations to make Phoenix feel threatened.
The opinions which you began with in the beginning of this video and the impact that the trilogy had on you was relatable to an extreme. I have been trying to express my love for the game and convincing more and more people to get in the franchise because the scripts, characters and the music is so good that it should deserve more and more recognition even if it's two decades old. The evolution of Phoenix in the span of 7 years felt reasonable to me, and I accepted what was given to me almost immediately because I could feel the emotional trauma which disbarment would have caused to Phoenix. I find myself agreeing to your opinions on that matter as well. Great video, I totally enjoyed watching it.
I loved Phoenix's story in Apollo Justice, it just felt like something that Shu Takumi would do you know. For me, Phoenix and Apollo are like Goku and Gohan from Dragon Ball Z. Akira Toriyama wanted in the past to end Goku's story so that he could focus on Gohan's future as protector of the earth, he had so many ideas about it but the fans never liked that idea. And since then Goku became a character that is just here for the money, a character that is just here to please fans. I feel the same thing with Phoenix here. Shu wanted to focus on a new character but the fans and Capcom were like " Nope. Phoenix should always be the main protagonist " So here we are today, with Shu who left the main character story to focus for the past few years on DGS1&2, games that are not intended to the entire world but with a story that is worth the title of game of the year. But the thing is that, the main story game just doesn't feel the same now. Different writers, different directors, different way of using character like Phoenix and Apollo.
That’s an excellent comparison, plus I couldn’t agree more that Capcom insisting Phoenix be included has only restricted the series. Different writers using the same characters can work well in fiction, however in a lot of ways, Phoenix Wright IS Shu Takumi.
Oh, one other thing that bothered me about Apollo Justice: where were Phoenix's friends at after Phoenix got disbarred and his life fell apart for while? It's been a while since I played the game so I could be mistaken, but I believe Maya and Edgeworth are almost entirely absent from the plot, when it seems like they would absolutely have something to say one way or another about Phoenix's new life direction. I'm sure there's a canonical reason for it now but it felt like a major shortcoming in the plot.
It’s a little crazy that no one was there for him. Something Dual Destinies tried to rectify a little by suggesting Edgeworth was the one who brought Phoenix back into the legal world.
FCKING YES! I’ve been saying that for ages! Why did it take so long for Phoenix’s friends to appear a game and two later? Why not just a quick mention of where they are? Phoenix gets disbarred but we get no reaction from his friends. How does Miles feel about the person who defended him and inspired him to follow his father’s dream of defending people? What about Mia who taught him to be a lawyer? What about Maya and Pearl who were like younger sisters Phoenix never had? Larry? Franziska? Iris? How would she feel the person she thought she betrayed for years only for him to forgive her was taken away of his job and became a father? Why was this so hard to include? It didn’t have to be a lot. Just something!
I relate to this video so much, I am profoundly affected by the ace attorney series that almost went into law school, so when the apollo justice came out, I felt exactly the way you did (I am so glad i finally found someone saying so) at first I didnt want to have anything to do with the game, and didnt play it for days but I wanted to know what happened to Phoenix so I did eventually play it. Suffice to say I still have mixed feelings about that game and their decision to make Phoenix into a Hobo even now
It means so much to me to see that this series means so much to so many people. Part of the fun is interacting with people who also like the series! I'd definitely say that Apollo Justice is my favourite main series game (Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2 being my favourite overall). I find that Apollo Justice has this edge to it that the other games don't. Mainly, would be the art style and music. It's very unique in comparison, as the graphics are a sort of half-way point of the lower quality first trilogy graphics, and the sometimes a little cringey 3D graphics (but it greatly improves in DGS so I have high hopes!). I enjoy the music of AJ a lot, as well. I'm a big fan of the GBA/DS sounds instead of an orchestra. I also like that it feels like the first trilogy, but with a bit of a dark spin on it. (i.e. Opening, Courtroom lobby prelude, Detention Centre, A Fate Smeared by Tricks and Gadgets, Forgotten Legend, Drew Studio, etc.) It's right down my ally, really. *MAJOR Apollo Justice spoilers below* I also find that the fact that Apollo Justice was the first to do this makes the impact even stronger. Before, Ace Attorney was mostly hijinks and mystery solving for the fun of it, with sad revelations, of course, but there are still happy endings and everything is tied up in a ribbon. In Apollo Justice, you realise that all the cases you played had something to do with the main characters identity, REALLY tying it together. Then, you see Phoenix, no longer a lawyer, and appears to be at his absolute lowest point. How is he supposed to come back from that?? The shock you feel from seeing Phoenix the first time and finding out how he lost his badge is something that I don't think can return in the series. Not to mention, there were a lot more mysteries in that game, for example the black psyche locks (only explained in DD), as well as the odd revelation that Trucy and Apollo are siblings, and that their mother is still alive. Those are two big things that were not resolved at the end of the game, and I think that gave it a bit of a darker aftertaste, as well. I appreciate as though, that the comic relief and energetic assistants were still strong. It was more of what I thought was lacking, and the same for what I liked already. I also find that Apollo Justice is a *little* more original? By the time I got to SoJ, I was like, "Yeah, I'm very shocked, but I'm also very used to dead fathers at this point." It felt different with Zak Gramarye. He was the first victim of the game. You didn't know him. Usually, you never feel any connection with the victim, but to feel it *after* they've died? That hits hard. With Spirit of Justice, I guess there was a bit more foreshadowing, with Dhurke saying he was sick, I believe? I mean, you could tell something was up by the way he talks to you in the detention centre after he is arrested. And of course, foreshadowing isn't bad, but big plot twists like this still work when it's still very deeply tied into the story and makes sense. I find that SoJ is Apollo Justice's sequel, or at least finishes off his character in a pleasing way. I mean, the title is a bit of a hint, no? I find that his character was really brought to an end, with all the answers revealed. Honestly, I wasn't THAT interested in his life after his father died and his mother went missing, but I'm happy to know anyways. Not to mention, I find his relationship with Nahyuta very sweet and underrated. Also, since Apollo is in Khura'in now, I imagine that means AA7 will focus more on Athena Cykes, which would be something I'd be excited for. Apollo Justice means a lot to me, and I will defend it forever.
Your experience is certainly unique; thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I had almost the exact opposite reaction to you. Dhurke hit me a lot harder than Zak, however as I mentioned in this video, my initial reaction to Apollo Justice greatly influenced my perception of the game as a whole. I'm really glad the game connected with you the way it did, because like you, I adore how this series inspires people.
Love your vids, and know the feeling about passion that you talked about :) your kind of videos are rare and every ace attorney discussion video is blessed Thank you :)
Thanks a million; all the comments have been so wholesome and I can’t thank you guys enough. I’m happy that others share the same passion I have for Ace Attorney.
I actually liked Hobo Phoenix because noone is safe from accidents plus he became a scheming genius out for revenge While too jarring in contrast to trilogy Phoenix it was very refreshing for him to stop being a clown everyone disrespected and grow a pair to truly hammer home that he IS ACE ATTORNEY who was unjustly wronged and is ready to do anything to get justice for himself including forgery he was like: "I was already punished for forgery might as well use it to my advantage" I also loved how Phoenix became kind of the foil to Damon Gant who also forged evidence and used people with the difference that Phoenix does it to get justice served while Gant served his own ego My problem is actually future games in the series which straight up disregard everything that happened in AJ Phoenix again was a bluffing clown who was constantly mocked and made fun off which was awful When DD was out I grabbed it thinking: "Oh yeah what will prosecutors do against such a mature attorney who is not only as good as before if not more but on top of that can manipulate events and everyone around him to get the results and confessions he wants" But no they just brought back trilogy Phoenix but dumber who was mocked and made fun off again which was awful and they also added ANOTHER CHARACTER BEFORE THEY FINISHED DEVELOPING APOLLO AND IGNORED JURY SYSTEM COMPLETELY it was as if they wanted a soft reboot of the series and decided to sell original trilogy again while ignoring absolutely everything that happened in AJ
Even though I really disliked Phoenix acting like some sort of omnipotent, all-knowing guy in AJ, I think they did a really smart job by having him act as a sort of mentor for Apollo. Even though DD and SoJ don't focus on Apollo as much as AJ did, they're still his trilogy, fleshing out the growth of the character. However, unlike Phoenix's growth being that of a lawyer, Apollo's growth is of himself as a person. I do wish they focused on him more in the games that came after, instead of letting Phoenix take the spotlight again. AJ is probably my favorite game in the series because not only are Trucy and Klavier my favorite characters but also the story of Kristoph Gavin is so indescribable of how satisfying it is to go through. Kristoph's breakdown when he realizes that Wright is once again preventing him from having the last laugh is phenomenal, and a moment in the series that I think can't be beat, the only thing coming close to me is the Phantom's breakdown at the end of DD. I know now more than ever people are starting to take a look back at AJ and are starting to appreciate it more which makes me really happy, because even though it may not have Phoenix Wright as the main character of the story, that's fine since his story was complete, and it was time for somebody else to take his place.
Yeah. Now that I think about it, Phoenix always had that "Yeah that's not how things work around here. You are all just new at this." kinda vibe in AJ. He was sometimes patronizing Apollo almost. But you can't completely blame him I suppose.
Right? Creators had a backstory for the Gavin brothers (which included the origin of Kristoph's scar) which was scrapped due to the length of AJ. We should have gotten that, maybe Apollo saved Klavier or helped him through stuff. Instead, we got the mess that Dual Destinies is as a sequel.
When I first played Apollo Justice, I loved the new Phoenix. I knew that he had changed and was curious to see how. I realized very quickly that he was putting on a show when I saw his smug smile sprite because it's just such a Wright thing to do.
When Dual Destinies trailer was released and i saw Apollo donning some bandages and a coat, i thought hed do the hobo phoenix route and i was so stoked, after playing it for the first time years ago i was a bit disappointed it didnt entirely turn out that way
Its always weird playing him in dual destinies as a lawyer,Phoenix in aj is a chill calculated man with a plan and has many cards under his sleeves, but in dd he nearly become his old self, and it doesnt feel like the case is under control when he take over the case,its Chaos All over again(which is fine).
That’s ridiculously kind of you to say, thanks a million. ✨ I don’t think I deserve even half the viewership this video’s received, but really, I appreciate the compliment.
