WHY DO I HATE SPACE WOLVES? 

In the grim darkness of the far future, GW tries to capitalize on the "Vampires vs. Werewolves" myth by writing a conflict between Blood Angels and Space Wolves. This campaign culminates in an army box set or board game pitting the two against each other. "Can the heroic Wolves of Fenris vanquish their brother Space Marines who gave into the Red Thirst?"

Full disclosure. I've played a long time and one of the armies I own is Space Wolves. I admit much of the later lore of the Wolves is full of really bad ideas and badly written. The naming conventions of the Wolves are lame in most ways. The Wolves were basically useless in the Heresy. Having said that, numerous Primarchs and Chapters have plot armor and not just the Wolves. If you've read a Codex or a 40K novel, I shouldn't have to explain that statement. Also, two of the nicest, fairest, non-meta players I've known in well over 2 decades were Space Wolf players. One of the worst players I've played against was also a Space Wolf player. Also, one of the worst players I've played was a Grey Knights player. He was a meta only player try hard, win at all costs type. Not saying all Grey Knights players are that way, just what I experienced. Same with Space Wolf players, not all are jerks but many are. We all know that. Grey knights have more rabid fan boys than the Wolves in my experience, in conversation or playing the game. Things like "a squad of Grey Knights can beat a company of any other chapter" is not an uncommon type of statement among those types of folks. Let's not forget that, in the lore, the "good guy" Grey Knights exterminate entire Guard units or civilizations that simply may know of Chaos or have just fought side by side with the Knights against a Chaos faction. Everyone has their failures in the lore, it's always been a satire. To be fair though, the lore has gone downhill in many ways over the years. The quality of writing is not anywhere near as good as it once was, in my opinion. That is often the real issue with so many of the problems that a lot of people have with these types of arguments. The other thing is that a lot of people in the hobby can't carry on a polite conversation and act like grown ups, either when playing the game or discussing the lore of the game.

Tonite on Northern Gear: James becomes a wulfen, Hammond has a ride in Logan Grimnar's Stormrider and I challenge Bjorn the Fell-Handed to a drinking contest.

Corax squashes multiple (armored) marines with his bare hands in the books and he's not even known for brawling like The Lion was- to your point about how strong a primarch could be. Even a pulled blow would break bones

It's all of the reasons and things that you mention in this video that makes me seriously question the theory that Russ killed either of the lost primarchs. If the guy didn't have the heart to finish Horus during the height of the heresy, how do you expect me to believe that Russ killed brothers before? Good video, champ 👍

I appreciate your videos Northern. I agree that Space Wolves lore and naming conventions have been mostly dumb since their 5th edition codex. However I have also disliked Grey Knights since 5th edition and I think the Ward effect on Grey Knights has made them every bit as obnoxious. The inquisition/grey knights aren't all powerful in the Imperium. I always imagined that the Imperium is a balancing act between the various factions and so a first founding chapter could probably get away with things that a successor chapter wouldn't. So I partially agree with you but I think that Grey Knights have similar problems.

Oh my God. You dated a furry like 15 years ago, let it goooooo (Starting this rumor)

I really like the idea of SW being nomadic raiders. I mean.. thats what vikings originally were. So why not lean more on that aspect?

This is gonna trigger so many people and I love it 😆 🤣

I really hate when people say "Superman is boring because he can do everything." Yes, he CAN do anything, but he doesn't, because he knows he shouldn't. There's a reason his most iconic villain is Lex Luthor, not Mongul. Nobody questions whether Superman is strong enough to fight some guy. That's not where the suspense is in a Superman story. The suspense is in whether or not Superman will find enough proof that Lex Luthor can be taken down by the system itself. He doesn't want to be Konrad Curze, inflicting justice by any means necessary, and circumventing any sort of legal system. He wants to build a world where Superman isn't needed, where the legal system can bring justice down on all kinds of villains, from bank robbers to corrupt business moguls. "What Ever Happened To Truth, Justice, And The American Way?" is the comic you need to read before you can say anything about Superman being boring.

One thing I hate about how GW wrote the space wolves is in recent lore is how Ragnar was able to send a small force and manages to behead Ghazghull Thraka, which is obsoletely ridiculous because Ghazghull is known to be one of the biggest orks alive and managed to cause a lot of damage to the imperium and GW does him dirty like that. Even Ragnar’s rules compared to Ghazghull’s is bull, because 99% of the time Ghazghull would win.

Me hearing about Horus putting Russ in a coma: that's MY Primarch Also I agree on their coloring. Baby blue and yellow is a ridiculous color scheme for elite warriors. Actually makes me sick to look at.

Im a thousands sons player and I did find it trash that space wolves could burn an army of wizards. the wolves arent anti-psyker.

Let me play devil's advocate: 1. Everything is named Wolf-wolf-wolf - yes that's bad there is no way to even counter that 2. They get away with fucking with the inquissition - that's because they had special rights. They were only ever answering to the emperor. Emperor enforces lmperium wide atheism? Fenris keeps their religion. Emperor enforces ban on psychers? Run priests exempt tottaly not psychers. Space wolves have a special position not just among space marine chapters, but among 1st founding chapters even, they are basically the measuring stick on how far a space marine chapter can go before getting heresied. And as to 'why don't the inquisition just kill them?'... do you remember the Badab war? The inquisition decided to go after a chapter which was not even first founding and instantly 3-4 other chapters showed up to back them up as allies, the extended holdings of the chapter drafted PDF to make what basically were way better imperial guard regiments. The imperium is basically the HRE you have as much power as you can enforce and realistically speaking if the Inquissition decided to exterminate the Space Wolves, that would mean a centuries long war to dwarf the Badab war. 3. 'No space wolf should be allowed to beat up a Grey Knight in lore' - that's plain silly, because Space Wolves lore also includes that they are way stronger than normal space marines because of the werewolf thing. Each army book powerwanks their own faction. Let's look at this realistically: What is a Grey Knight? - a space marine, a psycher, with special equipment, special geneseed and special training. What is a Space Wolf? - a space marine, blessed by some minor warp entity, special equipment, special geneseed and special training. Also keep in mind specialisation. What is the specialisation of the Grey Knights? - Hunting demons What is the specialisation of the Space Wolves? - killing other space marines and killing psychers Even if we assume that Grey Knights are stronger, they Space Wolves are basically tailor made to fight them. > If I had them loose, I'd have them loose to factions that hard counter them, not other space Marines, but like T'au.

I absolutely love my space wolves their the reason I started the hobby, haven't read any lore apart from the wolftime novel and I loved that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But painting all players with same brush really hits me. But one cares as this is a RU-vid comment lol

Space wolves are the absolute chads. Not loving them is not an option. Funny thing is , this view of the space wolves is about what most feel about space marines in general. I’ll still love space wolves from now till my final day. Darn it.

I play space wolves and I have to say you are right on point. I especially like what you said about them needing to have a more Germanic/Slavic influence. Can’t even voice how much I wish GW would back off on the whole “werewolf” thing.

This rant was more cathartic than it has any right being. No coincidence I'm drawn to Thousand Sons, Dark Angels and Red Hunters. 1) The months of shame should've been Iron Hands and Salamanders. Two first founding chapters calling out the Inquisition is a lot of name recognition, and a lot of leverage when their successor chapters get involved, for the High Lords to reign in their dogs. Bonus points if the Inquisition are proven right when the spared survivors inadvertently cause a greater crisis a generation later. 2) I also love the idea of isolationist Fenris and the Void Packs. Keeping the legion united is important IMO. This is a creative way to give players options whilst keeping them together. Making them emo is a bit much but I agree in principle. 3) GW have made traitor Space Wolves. There are supposed to be a bunch in the Red Corsairs. That would be even more interesting, if traitor Space Wolves helped form the piratical culture of the Red Corsairs. I'd consider a 40k fan retcon project. See if we can overcome GW's shite with shared headcanon. I've a few ideas on things like Primaris, old school Necrons, making Tau universal, etc. that I'd write in about if there was an episode asking for ideas.

There's a few things here I think are a bit unfair, or wrong, but overall I do agree with you. And as a former Space Wolf player I will be giving my 2 cents (that no one wants). A. The "wolf wolf wolf wolf" thing about them is absolutely dumb, and the people that hate it the most are, from what I've seen, Space Wolves players. By Hel, it's one of the reasons I stopped enjoying them. 1. It's always been explained that they got away with it by being a first founding chapter. That said they probably should have gotten a harsher punishment, such as at least a penitent crusade. 1a. A couple side notes that triggered my autism: The wolves aren't "a little piddly chapter" as they don't adhere to the size limit of the codex. The Ordo Malleus isn't the entire inquisition. 2. Treating other primarchs with disrespect, at least to their face, is absolutely dumb. And the scene you described is stupid. 3. Yea, they didn't do much for the heresy. However, you're also ignoring that Constantine Valdor also pushed Russ and the Wolves into attacking Prospuro, when Russ is shown to both regret and not want to do it. But they should have, if they were able to, confirm their orders. That said you could also say the Emperor should have given the order to a legion that didn't hat the Thousand Sons. 3a. Yea, they should have remained on Terra. However in Russ' defense, had he not hesitated (in the exact way the Emperor did) the heresy would have been stopped. But yes he should have remained on Terra. 4. You're honestly the first person, especially if those that hate them, I've seen describe them wiping out the Thousand Sons with minimal effort. It's usually described as, especially by Thousand Sons fans, how they needed their entire legion, primarch, custodes, and sisters of silence to beat a weakened Thousand Sons who couldn't use their powers. 4a. Iskandar Khayon is a very bad example to use in my opinion since he's also a Mary Sue (complete with his own tragic backstory, big tiddy goth eldar gf, and Yu-Gi-Oh deck of daemons), who even in his own flashbacks kills a bunch of Wolves while absolutely exhausted and barely able to use his powers. 5. Yea they shouldn't have been able to do that. 5a. There are neck beards in every faction I'd say. I feel this could also be a problem extended to toxic space marine players as a whole. 6. Fenris has always been corrupted by Tzeentch, and it probably should be exterminatused at this point. And if it wasn't for the Wolves only being able to recruit from Fenrisians it probably would have been destroyed. 6a. They did lose a couple captains during the wrath of Magnus, Egil Iron wolf. That said the tradition of changing the company iconography hasn't happened after going through 2 captains. Same with the other 2 companies that have lost their captains. (Wolf Lord is bad 14yo fanfiction tier.) 7. The models, specifically the forgeworld ones are absolutely stupid. That said it is also an aesthetic choice, and they look better when the space wolf bits are dispersed throughout a marine force. 8. Yes. Absolutely. The wolves, the way they're written and presented isn't even "Vikings in space" it's generic snowy barbarians in power armor. It's the movie/tv/video game "Viking that look and act nothing like iron age pirates or Norsemen. 8a. It's one of the main things that drove me away from the Wolves, especially as I got more into Germanic history and Heathenry. 8b. This is why when I made my homebrew Wings Revenant, they're actually based on those types of cultures. 9. I think this depends on the character and your taste in characters. Same with the players honestly. The Wolves are supposed to be a gregarious lot but written poorly it could very easily come off as very bad. 9a. There are more chaos successors of the wolves than loyalists, and yes they have successors now with primaris bs. There's plenty that joined the Red Corsairs, there's Svane Vulfbad's Blood Wolves, and Skyrar's Dark Wolves (which are hinted as being the remnants of the Wolf Brothers). 10. They are very lazily written. And the Wulfen are so stupid looking. Changing the Wolves I basically agree with half of what you've said as the wolves would be much better. However, 1. I disagree with the great hunt thing as it comes off as a bit of an over correction. I'd have them basically be a fleet based chapter that barely interacted with their homeworld save for recruitment and defense. 2. There pains scheme is another example of "wolfy wolf" as they come from an ice world, so their armor is ice blue. Get it. (facepalm). and the yellow is Ragnar's company specifically. That said your colors are better. 3. Your Void Pack idea sounds like sanctioned renegades, which creates another Mary Sue problem that they're the only ones able to do that and get away with using xenos tech, etc. plus them having actual successors now, thanks primaris, means you can get away with them having different takes. In fact it's noted a few hate the wolves and want nothing to do with them.

In the black books the Thousands Sons are absolutely annihilating the Space Wolves. The Custodes joined, and the Thousand Sons were wrecking those too. The only reason the Thousand Sons lost is because Tzeentch fucked with the planet in the Impossible Battle. As for why Grey Knights are so powerful... that's because they're the successors to the Thousand Sons, created and trained by a shard of Magnus.

I think it's kinda fun, funny and relatable if one legion/chapter has privileges that the rest can't even pretend at: specifically because it makes them seem kinda obnoxious and there's always at least one group/individual like that in every organization. "Exceptions are made for exceptional men", after all. IMO even the astartes need among them a bunch of bullies and goons who can bust heads, scuz people and thumb their noses at authority and get away with it most of the time. The Wolf-wolf naming convention is really miserable and corny but that also makes them somewhat endearing, in a tacky, early 90s kinda way. They're not my favorite by a longshot, but they are definitely one of the most endearing and have some of the best novels and fluff in spite of being totally derivative and obnoxious. Lucas the Trickster for example, is a great character and the novels where he makes an appearance are all great. You're 100% right about the Horus Heresy SW being total BS though, the lore is just too much for how little good they actually did.

You're entirely right about the Space Wolves, who are totally the worst, but to be fair the Lion is actually kind of a negative. He gives fooled by Perturabo, basically acts as Curze's taxi, consorts with some weird chaos monstrosity, lies to everyone causing huge problems, randomly kills some of his best men for no real reason, and blows up pieces of Macragge for fun. My theory is that the Lion is really Alpharius and the whole Dark Angels legion is just a deep cover identity. Explains why all those Alphariuses are so runty.

In some ways I very much agree with this video. I'm an ultramarines player and I have a friend in our play group who really really likes his space wolves. He isn't rude or anything, he just likes to flick crap while we play. He made the mistake of goading me and my "poster smurfs". I finally decided to tell him just how insignificant his chapter was in comparison to nearly every other chapter, *especially* the ultramarines. I went point by point until he was stunned into silence while everyone else smiled and laughed. I started soft with logistics and built into the better lore. I relayed the impact each chapter has had. I made comparisons in wars won and lost and the significance of each. I illustrated the diversity in my chapter and successors vs the wolves lack thereof. I went ham. The new lore and old lore came down like a hammer, even with the occasional laughable gaffe. I wasn't mean. It was just a really good roasting. My big nail was "Robot Gorillaman". I mentioned that he has built and rebuilt empires so many times he probably runs numbers sleeping. I then compared the military prowess of each primarch and how the inquisition wouldn't dare march on Macragge even if they had a reason... The Inquisition *FEARS AND RESPECTS* the influence of Ultramar thanks to the big guy. I finished by simply asking who it was that literally wrote the book on how to be a space marine. I also asked which chapters have followed it the least and what has happened to each... The look on my bro's face was priceless. Needless to say, he's calmed down significantly with the jokes at others expense.

For me the Space Wolf sodium has become a substantial feature of your channel. 😆

Color is fine, it’s the color of the fur of wolves. That dreadnought with the axe is cool, and some of their models are cool too. I also think that wolves who are super soldiers beating the super duper super soldiers is actually the best part. It’s like Lex Luther beating Superman. They are not my faction however, mine is Salamanders, and they could use some love.

I been facing Space Wolf's for the last 15 yrs, so facing other armies is a god send.

Hey North, found your channel today and would like to ask if you have some recommendation in regards of Grey Knights lore. I played a bit of 4th edition with a friend and his armies 15 years ago, but started in february my first army, Grey Knights. I have about 7k points painted so far and like to listen to the Horus Heresy audiobooks while painting, i'm at the 20th book "Primarchs" right now and working on a 2k points infantry only list with only metal minis. I got my hands on the codezies of 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th and 9th edition, but on stuff like the killing of demon Angron and Armageddon i only read about on wiki pages. I would like to learn more about our dudes, thats why i am asking. Sorry for my english, its not my first language

There is one good reason to like the Space Wolves: Someone likes the models and finds the army badass/ cool. But from a lore perspective they are indeed full of BS.

First Founding chapters in general do get away with more than successors, but you are right that the Wolves get away with the most. Apart from that the attempts to tone down the wolf wolfy wolf wolf they have going on in the Heresy books by making things mistranslations etc needs to be taken further imho, (plus make the Wulfen more like Death Company, play up the tragedy of it and have them be much more animalistic), I do like the idea of the raiding forces, honestly on the fence about them, I mean I am not going to start collecting any loyalists so (Word Bearers ftw, 1st heretics and speakers of truths), in general I find Wolves less irritating than the Dark Angels shenanigans but that's as some who has to fight them.

Space wolves are for guys that have topknots, beards and pretend they are Ragnar Lothbrok. ( Secret Betas)

Hot Take: this is why I love White Scars. They're everything the Wolves SHOULD be. The Wolves embrace unreserved violence while the Scars love the thrill of the hunt AND are encouraged in embracing their culture like the arts, horse riding, poetry, and falconry. Chris Wraight did them a SERVICE. I bet (tin foil hat theory) they don't get the fluff like the Wolves, Angels, Ultramarines simply because GW thinks a lot of people have a hard time or will get bored painting white. Remember the rule if the Khan rode Moondrakken, would be able to declare five bike models as TROOPS in 6th Edition? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Can't wait to see the cope from space wolves fans in the comments.

Interesting that it seems everyone has a founding loyalist chapter that they hate with full passion

Grey Knights players use their psychic powers to bend their 40k lore interpretation to accommodate overwhelming salt accumulation. It's a potent desalination technique. I've played space wolves since 1996, and have built 9,000 points of custom, individual characters- down to each grey hunter. Most space wolves players I've met through the years are awesome; but most that I know have several other armies as well. Your "void pack" idea is very similar to how I've played my wolves since the early 2000s; to the extent that they do frequently fight the Grey Knights (because we have some in our group) to be true to the months of shame lore. As far as neck beards; I hate to break it to you, many 40k players are neck beards. This isn't a space wolves exclusive trend.

I’m a 1k sons player so now you know one. I’ve been waiting for this glorious video since I first heard your disdain for the pups. Also the wolves only won on prospero because they had the sisters of silence and custodes

I really liked some of your suggestions on how to improve them. Especially the shame and great hunts.

Space Wolves have fallen to Chaos. There are quite a few of them in the Red Corsairs, as well as there being a Khorne champion known as Svane Wulfbad. There's in fact an entire warband of Chaos Space Wolves called Skyrar's Dark Wolves. As for as why the Inquisition didn't go after them like they did the Celestial Lions, the Space Wolves are a first founding Legion and fully going after them could rile up a lot of people in the Imperium, including a number of other Space Marine chapters who would probably take the Wolves' side. When it comes to being exposed to daemons, Space Wolves have been fighting daemons since the Horus Heresy; it's expected that Space Marines will fight daemons, while civilians can't be exposed to them due to them not having the same willpower as Marines to fight the temptations of Chaos. In terms of Prospero, it wasn't just the Wolves attacking. They had with them Sisters of Silence and psi-titans who could quite effectively counter the Thousand Sons' powers. Finally, when it comes to the Wulfen, most Space Wolves don't want to become them. Aspirants have to be able to fight the curse in order to become a full Space Marine. It's a point of honor to be able to stay in control, very much like how the Blood Angels relate to the Red Thirst and Black Rage. One of the big responsibilities of Wune Priests is to aid Space Wolves in not falling to the curse. Yes, they become bigger and stronger, but it's at the expense of their humanity. For a chapter for whom kin relations are very important, they don't want to become mindless monsters. If becoming a Wulfen was a complete bugg, then the Thousand Sons would not have tried to transform the entire chapter into them.

The only faction I genuinely hate in the setting is the dark angels, for many reasons but the main reason is that they are so overly confident and prideful in their abilities despite their constant failures because of their secrecy and dishonesty and to top it off they constantly friendly fire or threaten to friendly fire actually competent factions.

Hey northern I know I’m not a patron but a cool video idea would be to expand on this video idea by going over your thoughts on each of the legion/major faction in warhammer 30/40k because I would like to hear your thoughts on each faction

Man… I still mad about Prospero.

Just discovered this video today and i enjoyed it more than i had any right to -Blood Angels player

There's not a legion that I out-and-out hate, not even Ultramarines. It think a large part of the UM hate comes from Matt Ward's fluff.

Why I hate the Space Wolves..One name. Leman Russ

Only way to redeem the space wolves is first they must serve a penance. Strip them of their colour scheme and rebrand them as the pink angels, with a bright pink with yellow trim colour scheme. That should put them in their place 🐺

the outer circle plays the thousand sons in 30k, and I have played the thousand sons on more then one occasions in 40k

As a Thousand Sons fan, I agree. However I dunno why people say Batman is flawed. Yeah he's obsessive and can't get over his childhood traumas but the guy's pretty mary sue-ish himself, able to always pull out some plan or macguffin out of his arse to make you think "Oh man he thought of everything all along!!". Batman's superpower is plot armour, I honestly can't stand him.

Now I want to build a small pirate Astartes force. Big fancy hats on the captain, flintlock-shaped bolt pistols, power cutlasses. Yarrr.

In summary, they're arrogant Mary Sues with plot armor (for some reason) Also they're Primarch's name is almost 🍋

Hey, Exile. Fun video as always, but I just wanted to discuss the part of the video where you discussed the power level of GKs versus others in the Imperium. I'm also a fan of the Knights which is why I wanted to bring it up. You said that a regular GK is about half as powerful as a Custodian, but from what I've read over the last 10 years or so, that doesn't seem quite accurate to me. (Random bad fanfic-y stories aside) The average rank-and-file GK is actually only about as powerful as a trained psyker you'd see in the Imperial Guard or maybe an Inquisitor. The GKs use their powers in concert with other members of their squad to amplify their psychic abilities (Brotherhood of Psykers), but a basic knight isn't even close to more powerful psykers like your average Librarian, Sorceror or Farseer. Now a squad leader like a Justicar might be a bit stronger and is usually the one who is drawing and directing the psychic energy from his battle bros, but even they aren't meant to be some god level psykers by any means on their own. Only GK Librarians and Grandmasters are high level psykers, which is why they get to such high positions of power in the chapter in the first place. Also, I think that just because one faction's warriors are usually considered more powerful than another's, that doesn't mean that the "stronger" side is going to win in a 1v1 every time. Individual power levels seem to vary greatly in Warhammer in general and you also have to take into account things like fate and the meddling of warp entities muddying the waters too. There are plenty of examples in the lore of characters defying the odds and defeating (usually barely) opponents they were expecting to die fighting for any number of reasons.

I enjoyed your impassioned hate, fueled rant against my beloved wolves. They leave many people bitter, however since you had like 20 minutes of nerd hate vs the wolves I feel it does deserve refutation where you really whiffed on some stuff in the lore, in my own humble opinion. First off one of the most important things to remember was that Leman Russ greatest strength was also his greatest weakness, blind, fanatical loyalty. This is why you don't get his actions in my opinion because inquisitorial types have trouble seeing past your hate boners. If I remember my lore right when the Emperor first found Russ Malcador himself questioned weather Leman's loyalty could be relied on. The emperor personally told Malacador not to worry about Russ'es loyalty and said no more. For Big E to state that to his number one guy, and who did he trust more then Malcador, basically states Leman's loyalty was sacrosanct. He wasn't called the Emperor's Executioner because it sounded cool, but because even if he was told to attack other space marines he didn't question it, he just did it, and that's the way Big E liked it. So having stated that when Horus gives the fateful order to attack Prospero why would Russ not question? Horus was War Master, wether Russ liked it or not, he was personally appointed by the Emperor, so to question Horus was to question the Emperor. Now for anyone who wants to scream about this was the Emperor wrong to trust Horus? I think we all know the Big E made a mistake with his appointment. Horus had all the cards at that point, he knew Leman, and he knew Russ would not question an order coming from him because he was War Master. I think we can safely say that Horus used Russ as his weapon by abusing his power, but that is kind of what traitors do. Furthermore your assertion that Russ was just bitch slapped into a coma by Horus kind of leaves out a really important part of the story, and that was Horus was empowered by Chaos to to KILL the emperor, of course Russ was no match for him, what other Primarch would have been? I mean Horus put Big E on the damned throne, could he have ever posed a threat to Big E without the power of Chaos coursing through his veins? Secondly the Wolves are not the only chapter that gets a pass, you may remember the Black Templars do not follow the Codex Astartes, and the Inquisition almost assuredly knows it and won't do anything about because the Imperium needs the Templars. Next, the Inquisition SUCKS! They rewrote whole sections of the imperial truth, murder the emperor's own off spring when they can find them, and their idea of saving humanity is destroying entire worlds, and I don't care if everyone screams, "but that's how they protect the secret of Chaos." If the plan was so great why is Chaos so strong, because they've done such a great job I assume. You find Chaos worshipers all across the imperium so maybe they need to work an extra shift or something. Oh, and I also seem to remember hearing their fight with the Grey Knights and the Inquisition cost the Wolves significant numbers of marines who willingly and fearlessly sacrificed themselves to protect the heroes of Armageddon from the Inquisition who wanted murder them for helping win a war against Chaos, and don't bother arguing it's for the best, Fu*k the Inquisition. Now, why did the Wolves defy the inquisition, and justifiably so. Because they citizens of Armageddon had won their respect, and their loyalty, and that loyalty runs through their veins. So rather then sit back like cowards, which they aren't, they defied the inquisition itself and aided the survivors of Armageddon at great risk and expense. So remember, fu*k the inquisition. And the Inquisition's choice to give them a pass, well I know that many here who know their lore will also know that when the Inquisition went to Fenris to seek an end to the Wolve's defiance they met with Bjorn the Fell Handed, one of the oldest, surviving space marines in all the imperium who actually fought by the Emperor's side. It was his renown and respect that even impressed the Inquisition. He is the one who brokered a cessation to hostilities. So you tell me, should the inquisition just attack a dreadnought entombed, legendary hero of the imperium? That would have lead to a full civil war and maybe even other chapters would have joined it on the Wolves side if they found out what had happened, because F*ck the inquisition. The Wolf who approached The Lion was a coward? Sorry but that was the Lion punching down. Even the Wolves fear the power of the Primarchs, I mean they have one to. And so what if they call the other Primarchs Jarls, you're going to tell that any legion or chapter post Heresy isn't going to favor their own Primarch above all others? So far as the Space Wolves have a lot of lazy lore, no offense but for you to pick out one chapter or faction that suffers from that post Primaris is just lame. The Primaris essentialy broke the lore so far as many are concerned. Saying GW got lazy with the lore is like saying 40k is unbalanced, and preaching to the choir is kind of a waste of time. I'm not gonna comment on your experience with individual space wolf players, that's your experience so nuff said. I deal with every player I meet with the consideration they give me, and if they don't I never play with them again. So just remember that hate blinds you, but that's ok, because that's how you deal with the Xeno, the mutant and the heretic. And if you just can't reconcile your self to the fact that Wolves defied the inquisition just go exterminautus an agro world, that's how you inquisition types get off after all.

Never liked the Space Wolves. Had a friend in the past who really liked them. He wouldn't should up about how tough and powerful the are. Went with Eldar when I got my feet dipped in Warhammer 40K. Recently sold my Eldar and went for a little Tau army, Necron Army. For space marines I went for the Raven Guard. Bought a Blood Angels Patrol box and some Raven Guard upgrades. I'm now thinking about either a Dark angel or Spâce Wolves patrol box to convert them to Raven Guard. As a new space marine player, the Blood Angels box was my first space marines purchase. Any suggestion which one next?

When you said "You're lamer than Ultramarines." I said WOAH out loud.

I like your Space Wolves idea way more.

I don´t mess with GW´s sheet anymore but the ´tude of the Wolves do follow how the Vikings were back in the day, they were a sadistisc gaggle of sociopaths so they are following their roots.

I’m a space wolf player and I just hear people shit on them constantly so I looked up a video to try and see why and now I just feel bad. I just think space Vikings are really cool.

I barely know anything about WH40k, being up to my second Horus Heresy book and being half aware of the lore. I like how you make criticisms of the lore, but then made detailed interesting constructive suggestions on how to improve them.

My Most Hated Factions (Lore): Adeptus Custodes, Tyranids, Salamanders

as an IW player I feel insulted that you thought Russ would handel Perturabo who had made Demon Angeron heel before him like a bitch. he wouldnt have sweat Russ he would have opned up on him with artillary qzand guns beforartilleryot into range to use his sharpened metal stick

In my opinion - GW should have the imperium clap the space wolves and kill off most of the main characters. The remaining Space Wolves should band together - leave the Imperium and start roving around raiding planets. Just making them space Vikings with no allegiance.

I wish 40k spacewolve were more like the 30k variants. Models and naming wise, I think alot of writing post heresy is needed for leman actually dealing with his failure and how he is ultimately partly responsible for his fathers fall due to his brash and over confident behaviour.

I don’t know a ton about the lore but I gotta say… I feel like I was listening to a child. I’m very impressed with your ability to make me want to ignore any points your try to make because it seems more like you’re throwing a temper tantrum.

There was a Space Wolf successor chapter and they all fell to chaos apparently a lot of them became spawns other joined the red corsairs. I'm good friends with a space wolves player, and I basically made the exact same arguments as to why I don't like them to him. I do think Leman Russ's failures during the Horus Heresy and him now hunting in the warp with the 13th company is a good piece of fluff, he's trying make up for his poor performance. Maybe when he comes back in 40k he'll be more humble after 1000s of years of fighting daemons. Not as cool as Kaldor Draigo though.

I get the impression that you don’t like them.

I happen to LIKE my battle Smurfs thank you very much.

I enjoy the lore, but it was the rules from way back in 3rd edition that made them no fun to face on the table. They had fully customizable terminators that gave them re-rolls for their saves and they didn’t have the same weapons limitations as other chapters. I never saw the ‘fluffy’ units for SWs on the table (Leman Russ tanks or Wolfen) except the Scouts that walked up from behind with their anti-tank equipment.

i have only one issue with the take NE: That the space wolves getting away with defying the inquisition. WHY DO the space wolves or any other astartes chapter have to take ANY crap from these glorified bureaucrats/thugs when THEY are the emperor's angels,not the inquisition! In fact,i often wonder why the astartes allow the inquisition to do the things they do?

I hate the space wolves too, most cringy chapter and primarch imo

As a SW player, I actually like the idea of making them resent themselves for failure. I do not match the personality of a sw character, I'm not loud or boastful, and I can't stand that kind of personality, esp when it's from a person/group who hasn't earned the right to brag, let alone failing as bad as they did in 30k. I think I would connect much more with a self loathing army, and one that is not as boastful outwardly to other factions. I like the idea you put forth, and perhaps something similar will be my lore. Maybe not as far as the pirates, but in the least an army that is trying to repent for the failure 10k years prior

>give the first assualt of armagdon to the iron hands You know what is so brilliant about that? it makes even mores sense then the space wolves being able to feld off the inquizition and the gray knights. As an iron hands player let me explain. 1. The Iron Hands are stubborn gits and when you piss them off they will not relent. This is exactly why Ferrus died, When fulgrim turned traitor he NEEDED to kill him. All he could see was red, and even when the loyalist were being slaughtered around him (something fulgrim pointed out) ferrus still stepped up to fight him. He knew he had no way of getting out of there even if he won the fight, and he still took it up, and his Soldiers fought on right beside him. TO. THE. MAN. no steps back, no retreat, just absolute unflinching stubbonrness. This is a trait that remains in 40k and has brought them into blows with even other chapters before (Space wolves and imperial fists being recent examples). When they step up to the pitch they don't back down. 2. Medusa, the iron hands home world, is one of THE worst planets in the imperium. Why? it is a former mining world made unstable by constant mining, with no water to speak off on the surface. The air is barely breathable and is toxic at the best of times. There is very little natural light on the planet thanks to a dense cover of polution and vocanic ash. No structuure lasts on medusa unless it is buried deep beneith the earth or is somewhere in orbit. The Iron hands and all the clans of medusa have to live on massive roaming fortress cities (land battleships if you will). There is no plant life on medusa so all supplies have to be brought from off world. There are no safe landing zones on medusa, everything has to be ferried down to the planet through the old mining space elevators that used to bring ore up from the planet. You want to actually wage war on the planet, you have to take those elevators, which are basically massive man made rings of machinery. After that, you have to get down to the planet, buffeted by AA fire and stubborn defenders. Finally, you get on the planet and it is Tunnel fighting, and laying siege to these roving fortress cities that you can't even pin down to a particular part of the planet cause they move around all the time. 3. the iron hands have incredibly strong ties to the mechanicus, and often act on their behalf. The mechanicus fabracator general is a permenent player in the high lords of terra, and this would go to great deal to explain why the inquisition starts to have trouble actually mustering strength to fight the iron hands and her successors. This isn't JUST a few chapters of marines, this is the entire mechanicum you just pissed off, possibly the only force even capable of challenging the inquisition for power in the imperium. makes even more sense cause armogedon was, and is, a seat of power for the mechanicus so they probably wouldn't want the inquisition to come knocking to destroy all their nice fancy toys after deamons appeared. Basically you are on the brink of an imperial civil war if this goes hot. 4. Medusa was a planet and system not even a black crusade could destroy. the long and short of it is that abadon and the iron warriors traitor legion (with perties blessing) set out to destroy the iron hands and they failled. the tide of traitors broke on the planet and the iron hands dug themselves in, bunkered down, and not only managed to survive, but drive the traitors off once reinforcement arrived from other chapters, mechanicus soldiers, and guardsmen. The iron hands were left weakened but rebuilt from the assualt. If the black legion and the iron warriors, combined, can't put an end to medusa, the gray knights and inquisition are gonna have a hell of a time trying. 5. The iron hands, at least in this edition, have a strategem called "soul of iron" which allows be to deny a power on a 4 up. for 2 cp I can do this as long as my unit is within 24 inches. This means that psycker heavy forces, like the gray knights, are gonna have that little bit of a harder time casting all their fancy powers, and will more often then not have to resort to good old fashioned fisticuffs against the iron hands. The gray knights will have to fight less on their terms and will not be able to rely on a lot of the abilities they have spent so long. they will be out of their element and while they are also increbile fighters in their own right compared to other marines, this could allow for a slight leveling of the playing field when combined with the other things I mentioned. effectively the war would come down to a stalmate because of the threat of a second imperial civil war. The iron hands dig in and take heavy losses to the gray knights, who take a pounding in return. No one wins, the prisoners have to be taken back but the mechanicus do get ot keep their toys, and the iron hands have to go one a crusade of penance.

I'm strangely excited for this one

Came here after watching a reaction to PancreasNoWork's own video on why the Dogs of Fenris suck so much, saying that people have pretty consistent reasons for hating the Space Wolves is on par with saying that GW overprices its models: STOP STATING THE OBVIOUS.

Months of shame was a name coined by the grey knights for their own actions for how many worlds they destroyed due to one inquisitor other inquisitors were their to stop the idiocy or assassinate the issue Killing the chapter that’s warp resistant would be idiotic the wolves had the advantage in numbers being around 6000 Leman attempted to talk to Magnus for days but he refused to answer and forced their hand Leman loved horus

Wow, if the Space Wolves where like that I would totally collect them.

You are entitled to your opinion norther. That’s fine. But I still feel like there’s a bit of unjustified rage at the wolves of fenris. The issue with the naming conventions of the space wolves units and what have you, is that nageacali doesn’t translate very easily into either high or low gothic. The imperium is more at fault for the ridiculous names all over the place than the space wolves are. Then with king and jarl distinction. Jarl is still a high position of authority. They call the emperor the all father. But jarl as in “yes I answer you, but ultimately leman Russ makes the final call unless it’s the emperor. Also…. Didn’t leman go into the warp in search of a way to bring back the emperor?? Idk…. I understand you’re allowed your opinions and you are. That’s fine… just….

Wow… which Space Wolves player did you wrong?

I've liked space wolves from a roleplayers perspective since 2nd edition. They have age based progression in their carreers, the tragedy of losing packmates from 15 to 10 to 5, and I love their sense of individualism. Mine were green though.

Yeah baby, point 9. Thought this would be point one. Couldn't have put this better. "Lamer than Ultramarines" I might sample this line and turn it into an EDM track.

I know one SW player that’s cool.

Another good video. Once again proving my point to that one guy on discord that Spears are better than Wolves.

In todays headlines: Old man yells at plastic soldiers. But seriously though, your backstory does sound more interesting.

Lol I've always hated the God Damn space wolves. With my previous RU-vid personality being recognized as "Inquisitor Nathan" I had always said that the Ole inquisition aught to exterminated bomb fenris into warp dust..

Agreed... they need to be like vikings not wolves. They need to raid and be more sombre.

I agree with the naming convention, there can be wolf themed names that arent just "blah blah wolf" Im not too aware of the lore surrounding Russ so no opinion on that, i disagree with the Russ being king and others being Jarls being disprespectful. Every legion is gonna put their Primarch's orders above the other primarch's and place their primarch on a higher pedestool because of their "presence" (forget the specific name for it but all primarchs except angron had this ability/effect on their genesons, even clonegrim had it), so i feel its more along the lines of that, but thats my personal opinion I will say, as far as i know the months of shame didnt end with "and everyone went their seperate ways" it ended with the beheading of Inquisitor Lord Kysnaros, who lead the the whole thing. And a very uneasy negotion afterwords. It also wasnt against the inquisition as a whole, but a single, unaligned Inquisitor Lord. They also didnt get off scott free, there were major losses on their side His Unaligned status and misuse of the GK outside their mission is part of why the rest of the inquisition didnt continue the "war" after his death: some just didnt care, there was no obligation to, and several of the Inquisition completely disagreed with his actions. Plus the questions of chaos taint and growing dissent by the GK over the incident (and subsequent second-guessing of their Inquisitorial masters by some Grey Knights) meant they would rather ignore it, and quickly sweep the embarrasement of Kysnaros under the rug. It was a win for the SW yes, not against the GK, or the Inquisition as a whole, but against an independant inquisitor lord, not the "full might of the inquisition" and did come at a great cost of SW lives, severe damage to their fleet, and to the Fang The inquisition also didnt take it lying down, rather than risk losing the GK and SW together, they backed down, accepted the terms and began plotting other, more subtle ways, to reign in the SW, even through possible manipulation of their gene-seed. After this is my own theory: The gene seed manipulation idea lines up as the Months of shame occured in 444.M41 and the Ultima founding (introduction of Primaris) happened in 999.M41 and with their introduction suddenly the SW could create successor chapters, something their genetic flaws prevented before. And Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl was able to conduct this research and manipulation of the Space Marines without repurcussions from the inquisition as this would have been seen as heretical otherwise. Perhaps the inquisition allowed this as it was the best method to corral in the SW, perhaps even the successor chaptors are secretly under the control of the inquisition. This could explain why we dont see any real Primaris versions of SW specific units (no primaris thunderwolf calv, blood claws, or grey hunters or any staple SW units) The inquisition may have let the primaris come to fruition in order to give an opportunity to get rid of certain Chapters they saw as undesirable and to bring the rest of the Chapters under their thumb

What you could do as well woth the new lore is that when chaos comes back the wolves all come together and feel that this is there time for vengeance and prove themselves

Jeez North you really took that Grey Knights chapter master death personal lol

I made my own space wolves successor with lore and everything. I made them a fleet based chapter that basicly lives in the warp, looking for leman.

Leman Russ/Angron are by far the worst sculpts/primarchs FW offer

You should run this idea for replacement wolves as a successor chapter.

This was brilliant, amazing how members of the community are so much better at this shit than the company themselves.

Tbh the first founding chapters all should be able to take on the inquisition. I understand they aren’t as strong but if needed they could probably

I hate any space marines who are like “our librarians/psykers aren’t really psykers because X” The Wolf ones are the dumbest. “We use the power of Fenris way the fuck across the galaxy to do space magic” Librarians in every other chapter: “sigh” Do you think maybe the reason why the space wolves never had any viable successors was because the Emperor was just tired of them messing stuff up and dragging their asses on the rug as it were?

For me, I think the space wolves have a lot of good characters (aside from Lehman Russ) that I like. However I think the faction itself like their actions and general way they interact with the rest of the imperium that frustrates me and makes me not like them...

From what I gather from your rant, the way GW is pandering to Space Wolves players is exactly how video game companies pander to the competitive player to the detriment of the casuals who just want to have some fun.

Wasn’t there a whole great company that fell to chaos? There one successor chapter, before the Ultima founding, The Wolf Brothers also fell. The Space Wolves are a bit annoying, but I really liked Prospero Burns.. A lot of the bravado stuff is an act so people don’t take them seriously. The Space Wolves are actually very calculating.

Wolf-I wolf-always wolf-think wolf-putting wolf-wolf wolf-on wolf-every wolf-damn wolf-word wolf-is wolf-silly. Wolf wolf. Plus I hate the wolf cavalry!

From the very first day I hate Space Wolfvz. Why? Because I love vikings lore . Love fantasy in space . I even love wolves. I love spinach too. Chocolate and even the smell of cut grass. I dont love a spinach-chocolate-grass cake . I hate Space wolfazzss

Absolutely outstanding, I knew you were hitting the nail on the head within the first 2 minutes of the list. Space wolves and 🍋 Ross are absolute jokes. I mean what is their actual thing? World eaters done everything better and don't get me started on Grimnar killing a grand master grey knights before he can even get is sword out 😂

One thing that isn't touched on much in the lore, that I love, is Renegade Space Marines. Not traitors, turned to chaos. Just Renegades. Some go completely neutral, become pirates etc. Others remain loyal to mankind, but refuse to work within or under the Imperium. I've been tempted to do a small force like this, and may have to steal some of your ideas 😂 A small force of Space Wolves that, after the heresy, were filled with shame not just for their failure,but for their comrades attitudes. So they broke off, repainted their armour, and went independent. Raiding to support themselves, and offering aid to remote colonies that the Imperium considers to insignificant or far away to warrant help.

Have you ever thought of writing alternate 30/40K faction backgrounds for use in One Page Rules. Celtic\Nordic Space Pirates has my head spinning with ideas, nice one

Also, didn’t the wolves keep their psykers?