Honestly if Tsumugi did write out all the plotlines, she's a dumber mastermind than Tengan for writing a character like Kokichi who is very capable of hijacking her game and ending it when she viewed the games as her only reason for living
Tsumugi: "okay I just Need to finish this character!....mmmm kokichi ouma....**makes him smart enough to become selfcounscious and to fool every security monokuma made and regulation** this killing game will Be lit"
@Fish There's a difference between not caring about it and it being bad, yk? People don't give a shit cuz it's a spinoff on separate media, like Danganronpa Zero and Killer Killer
I don’t think that the V3 cast is actually really crazy compared to the other two. It’s just that the four most level headed characters died in the first two trials. (Rantaro, Kaede, Ryoma, Kirumi) and that left Shuichi to be the only calm character in the rest of the cast.
Ryoma often gets overlooked on how much he impacted the tone of the story. Despite the fact his character was deemed as useless by the cast. That being said Suichi also has the problem of Makoto and Hajime having the same personality for the first 3 chapters, It would've been nice if there was something gimmicky to set him apart. Like have him drop a hot take on us, We need some more fleeting backbone action.
@@BramLastname Ooh, this is the perfect place to mention this. Right as Shuichi introduces himself to Kaede, he mentions how he knows nothing about music. Because... The average male player would probably know nothing about music. Small details like this hurt Shuichi's character! What if he has taken piano lessons when he was young but gave up because he thought he wasn't good enough or something? What if he travels with his uncle a lot? What if he writes poetry? This is what would make Shuichi stand out more in my opinion, him having a concrete personality, actual hobbies, opinions, interests, etc.
Angie's nationality doesn't have to be one thing or another, because they made up sonia's country in the last game based on European elements, so it's Canon at this point that the danganronpa universe has different geography to the real world.
In Sonia's case, I'd say it's more of a case of not wanting to offend or politicize any specific nationality that's not your own, so you keep it vague as an out.
What most people don’t know is that the creators for V3 never intended it to be part of the main continuity with DR1 and SDR2. It’s in another world where Danganronpa is fiction and it’s not pulling the “it’s all fake, it never happened” because in their own world, the first DR games are real events.
@@blockeontheleafeonthat's not even a view point necessarily. It's the explicit intention of kodaka even before the game came out and the reason it's confusing is due to localization. In Japan it's literally called "new Danganronpa" but I guess they decided that wasn't that important lol
If you think about, it could never be any other way. _Trigger Happy Havoc_ and _Goodbye Despair,_ despite being fictional in the universe of _V3,_ still have their own universe that characters within their sequel created; the fact that _V3_ makes the first two games have a 5th wall in hindsight does not change anything within those games. All the last game does is establish a universe in which "Danganronpa" is a franchise, and then break the 4th wall by interacting directly with the audience of said franchise, and THEN break the 5th wall by having us, the players, fight against those beyond the 4th wall of "Danganronpa", which does not affect the previous games, only the preconceived notion that _V3_ would expand upon their universe, instead of creating a new one.
As someone who loves both Shuichi and Kaede, I can see a bit of an issue the fandom has with Shuichi and Kaede getting killed off like that. But, Shuichi genuinely does a good job at being a good protagonist. He has his own specialty. So does Kaede. They can both be good protagonists in my opinion.
really shuichi by himself doesn't do anything wrong he's really good as a protagonist especially when he has to go and stand up for himself but it's just the fact that he's Kaede's replacement that made everyone sour imo
my problem with shuichi is that he's basically an emo version of the previous two main protags. kaede felt new and refreshing, but then they got rid of her for another cardboard cutout. the twist would have been so much better if the roles were reversed in my opinion. kaede wasnt too great a person, but thats what made her an interesting character to play.
@@lemonmoonlavender Hey, now that's just not fair to Shuichi. 1) First of all, I'd like to say that Shuichi is the smartest and ironically the most independent protag. Playing as him really feels like you are the smartest guy in the room (When Kokichi is not present) I mean, Makoto had both Kyoko and Byakuya carrying him for a while, and Hajime had Chiaki as well as sometimes Nagito. But Shuichi is the MVP of the class trials. 2) Another thing that makes me love Shuichi, is that in pursuit of the truth he cuts through anything in his way, even if it hurts him. "Kaede... is the killer" "Gonta is the killer" "Kaito is the killer" 3) He doesn't take sh*t from anyone. In the final trial, despite the immense despair (and I mean actual despair, not brainwashy-mind breaky kind), he pulled himself out of it, and said f*ck your hope, f*ck your despair, I pick the third option that will result in my death just to destroy this killing game. That takes balls. 4) Shuichi is like the only protag with a noticable character arc. Don't get me wrong, I like Makoto and Hajime... But aside from their deduction skills improving, and them getting just a smidge more confident, they barely changed in any mwaningful way over the course of the story. But Shuichi, he goes through the whole arc from kinda a wimp to a badass, while staying true to himself. The thing with Kaede is, well... I like her, but I just can't really see her going through a journey like this. I can't see her yelling out "Then I'll fight the world! I reject the world that inflicts suffering for entertainment!" The same way Shuichi did
@@lemonmoonlavender I agree. At first, I didnt really care about Kaede OR Shuichi. But I liked the way Kaede took up leadership from an emotional standpoint, and tried to push people foward. It was different, and I liked it. Shuichi feels too copy-paste to me, with a touch of emo.
Exactly! It always bothers me when people complain about characters, usually male characters, being too emotional. Like, everyone has emotions and some people just express them a lot more freely??
I LOVED that he was able to cry and explain he was afraid and depressed. It's why I could connect to him and not Hajime and Makoto. If I was in a killing game where I could die at any time--PRESUMABLY THE PERFECT TARGET FOR BEING A DETECTIVE--I'd be anything BUT calm and collected.
I personally wasn't bothered by Saihara being too emotional. I just didn't like that he was the same generic insecure pretty boy that whines about being useless and wanting to be stronger. Just like every other male protagonist in anime and Japanese video games.
Yeah!! And it wasn’t just Shuichi, I think all the male protags were pretty panicky and “emotional” but it’s reasonable?! And it makes them much more relatable!
While I'm not particularly mad about Kaeda's death, if anyone is looking to play a female protagonist in a killing game that has an actual arc, character development, and doesn't die and in the first chapter play Your Turn to Die - Death by Majority. I personally prefer it to Daganronpa in the way it treats all it's characters male, female, otherwise, and more serious topics like trauma and abuse
I love your turn to die too Its such a good game and one of the only games where i liked every character (gin being my favourite) Im debating wheter i prefer yttd or danganronpa Ive been in the danganronpa fandom for much longer but feel like yttd is better in general I love both game tho :)
As someone who would call V3 my favorite in the series, I really like the Monokubs on paper. The addition of five new annoying one-note mascot characters perfectly fits the metanarrative aspect the game is going for with its commentary on ongoing series. I think this can also be said for the outlandish-ness of the cast. The game is intentionally jumping the shark. That said, the Monokubs are onscreen for a bit too much of the game and a lot of their jokes are.. bad. Why is there a recurring incest joke with Monotaro and Monophanie. Why'd they put that in the game
I think that's the big issue with V3, a ton of its ideas sound great on paper, or make sense on a meta-narrative level, but they fall short on the *execution* (pun intended) (also dont forget the incest joke with monokuma himself and his own monokubs... or do... i wish i could forget it)
Surprisingly, I was the opposite. I was really irritated by the Monocubs prior to release, but they soon won me over when I watched a stream soon after release. So strange how we sort of mirror each other. Also I don’t know what the jokes are like in the English version as I’m only familiar with the Japanese version. I’m starting to suspect that _maybe_ a lot of charm was lost in translation or that the humour simply isn’t palpable to a general Western audience…
If you think about it, you'll remember that Tsumugi was part of the group that wrote the script. So, if we put together what we learned at her Love Hotel, we come to the conclusion that it was Tsumugi who put the Korekiyo and Monokubs incest plot into the script. And I kind of like to think that this was on purpose, as it serves as one more clue about the game's plot, without necessarily giving away spoilers. Because this serves to show how much of Tsumugi's personality that we know was real and what was just the character. SHE LITERALLY PUT HER FETISHES INTO THE SCRIPT!
I fully agree that in the context of the metanarrative all the weird ideas (the extreme talents and the kubs). That said, some ideas are executed too much on the nose to be enjoyable throughout the game (I can only stand so many _degenerate males_ in one game). I do understand the need of the bigger picture, but some players may never reach the appreciation because of said execution of themes.
When i first finished v3 i was just angry and sad about the ending, but with time i came into appreciating it, i would go as far to say this was the best way to end the danganronpa series, it made me feel despair and im not exaggerating, I still kinda don’t like it but i choose to appreciate it as it is
@@thetiniestleaf Same here! At first, before watching the video I really disliked ndrv3 but i can now appreciate it even a lil more! Cause it’s fits the narrative more than it does w any other dr game. The first two games felt.. pretty childish to say the least. thh, was pretty good but it kind of just felt,, half baked. Like when Makoto became the ult hope- what does that even mean? Idk why, but I feel as though they could have done a lot more better to drive in some narrative points and flesh out the chars, especially Hagakure. In sdr2 it was VERY weird. like- “oh no ppl would be junkified!!!! We need stop the yassificagion!!!l And it didn’t really make me feel nothing but laugh especially when junko showed what it would look like. And the anime just drove it even farther. Like. REALLY. None of that harshipped even MATTERED if they were all just gonna LIVE anyways. And it also just showed how one dimensional Chiaki is- portraying her as a savior- or an angel, or in better words- a plot device than an actual char. For NDRV3 the main problem I really had was how convoluted and nonsensical the story is when mixed up w the other two. Cause the story was already big- and they coukd have just backrided on another narrative, like how shady hopes peak academy is, future foundation, perhaps other experiments like izuru, etc, instead of just adding a whole new story when talking ab the whole gofer project and stuff. I really really like world building- when it’s done right. And here they didn’t even bother connecting the stories- Oh and not to mention the ending cause- honestly, they could have done a LOT more better. The ending just.. clash in w the whole story’s theme thus fam and like you said- it is WAAY too vague. How “lies can be just as grand and beautiful as the truth- and make you push forward, but you also need to face your truth”. And that’s what I got, cause it just makes more sense in a story perspective- than rather it’ll be “oh the fans were the real villains all along!”. Because at least for the first, we actually get SOME background on how this was going to be the msg all along. But even with that, the only actual chars to really show this msg throughout the story was Shuichi, Kokichi, Kaito, and maybe even Kaede. But besides from Shuichi, the way they portrayed that felt underwhelming and wasn’t really that kick I’m looking for, resulting in the msg being pretty vague and no fan can really agree in one. I do really like vague msgs and endings, when it leaves you to your interpretation, and you can argue that these two can go hand in hand.. but, with how lil they show an example of the second msg directly for the viewers, AND how at ch6 really tries to show that second msg, it gets weird. They could have at least left a lil ore hints of this big old twist but- ig not. They could have tried to set up some conversations and interactions ab this theme, and perhaps some more plot points in which it wouldn’t make sense if it weren’t for that fact that this was all a big show instead of only doing it in the end and ~sorta~ in the beginning, showing lil to none mid. Oh and- this is a lil nitpick buuuut. I hate how lil the chars show their talents how embarrassingly bad they are at iy. I.E., Rantaro Amami, Celestia Ludenberg, Yashiro Hagakure, Sonia Nevermind. I can go a whole tangent ab this but this is already way too long lololol
11:50 YESSS GIRL!!! I'm so glad someone else said it!! Always bothered me how the characters I was invested in getting executed kept getting disrupted by the baby robot bears that I just didn't care about. They took up a TON of Gonta's execution - and I couldn't take it seriously!! Gonta is my favourite v3 boy, and I'm still mad about it!!!
I think the craziest part is that Kodaka said in an interview that his intention with the game's ending was not to call out the audience or anything like that, he was actually aiming for something different, but because of its portrayal, it didn't come off the way they intended.
The original intention had to do with reality tv, which makes sense with the in-game portrayal. I guess it might have some fandom link with "dangansonas" or "how you would die" -generators, but the theme seems more in line with things like limits on what can be justified with "it's technically consented on". There were big controversies related to that in 00's, and the game puts on emphasis on the participants being superfans and the audience reaction being in response to them moving from "pre agreed on negatives" to vocally making sure there was no consent on any of it. Tsumugi's references to scripts make more sense read this way as well since reality tv does involve heavy scripting (environment, incentives, plotlines) while still never removing autonomy.
@ He didn't state it outright (Siliconera interview), but mentioned how he hoped that the response to the ending would be more favorable in the west due to us being more familiar with reality tv. My belief is that he didn't realize people would assume they were being jabbed at personally and miss the themes (elaborated in a parent reply)
I think his main focus was on the whole fiction vs reality dichotomy, and the audience was moreso supposed to be a vessel to tell the story of fiction changing the world, because there had to be a fucked up world in order to show fiction changing it. I just think they did a poor job of making it clear they weren't actually trying to call out the fans.
I think V3's reveal was mostly a lie, nothing quite adds up if you take it at face value (I forget the specific evidence I had), that and the reveal being a lie fits with the theme. The reveal of every Danganronpa game can be interpreted with hope or despair and I think this time it's meant to be up to the audience to choose either despair and believe the lie or to dig and find the hopeful truth
Some of the evidence: - They use Flashback Lights for the first time in the Prologue (it's even stated by Monokubs a couple of times that it's the first time), meaning everything prior was the truth. Kaede recalled being kidnapped, not volunteering for the show. - Even if you claim the above doesn't prove anything since kidnapping might be just how Team Danganronpa takes those who auditioned - none of them recognize the situation they're in as one suspiciously similar to a franchise they're supposed to love so much. - Rantaro was specifically the only non-protag character to reveal his full name before the first Flashback Light, yet no one recognized him from V2. And Chapter 6 reveals the fans apparently watch the show live, so the argument that V2 hasn't been aired yet doesn't work. - The floor in the audition tapes is the same one as the one on the studio in Tsumugi's lab. - Tsumugi's cosplox is a lie since considering the reveal, she should've been able to cosplay as this new version of Kaede. - That's not to say Tsumugi cosplayed as the others in audition tapes. If they were able to fake their Flashback Lights (i.e. the CG where Maki recalls her backstory as an assassin), Team Danganronpa should have no problems with faking audition tapes. Furthermore, there was no reason to censor their names since they already revealed them prior first Flashback Light in the Prologue. - Speaking of which, it's not even certain that Tsumugi was really part of Team Danganronpa, she could have easily only been given this role in her first Flashback Light. - So if it's already proved V3 cast weren't fans of Danganronpa, the fans shown on the screens could have been faked too (to match the plot of the mastermind being defeated). As for that scene with this kid Makoto, it could have been a planned Flashback Light. Remember that they were one short because Angie destroyed one in Chapter 3. And if there's no actual fanbase, this could explain why Team Danganronpa got away with doing such a thing in secret for so long. And that's just some of them from the top of my head.
Personally, this is the main reason I warmed up to the ending. It's not as "Exposition dump" as the first two, but is instead told through a very unreliable narrator. The stack of bricks, or I guess the shotput ball truly hit me when I relooked at the candidate videos and saw that... Shuichi wasnt called "Shuichi" despite introducing himself as "Shuichi" prior to when they were put in the killing game roles. After that, it really became more of a "Think for yourself" ending than a "Here's the answer" ending, which I personally enjoyed more. To each their own though.
I've never thought this theory adds up, personally, but your stance here adds some interesting nuance. The "hopeful" ending is the one where there isn't world peace, and where innocent people are being kidnapped in order to be publicly murdered. Your "despair" is a utopia where the people killed all volunteer for it of their own free will.
@@lmnnml3931 "Tsumugi's cosplox is a lie since considering the reveal, she should've been able to cosplay as this new version of Kaede." Nah, not if her cospox keeps her from cosplaying anyone who isn't 2d. "Fictional" could be meaning two different things. Kaede's still a real person; she just has a rewritten personality. (I'm a little precious about this because I legit figured out the whole game's twist and Tsumugi as the mastermind just from the cospox thing.)
I just realized, but with how Tsumugi is written, attentively or not, she is one of the most evil characters in fiction, and I'm meaning in a sense she emotional manipulates the player and hurts they player more then the world of the game, with some of her lines can make all the endearing, funny and heartbreaking moments with the cast seem...meaningless. 'All those characters you loved? They didn't matter! They're all fictional anyway! Why care about their lives?!' A true mastermind that.... as a concept would work better with Kokichi BUT that's all folks!
For your point about all the characters having outlandish personalities/backstories/catchphrases, I would like to call attention to one case where I feel it was done really well, on top of it being my favorite character of all time. That, if you couldn't already tell, would be Ryoma Hoshi. Despite the over-the-top backstory, his personality is actually the most calm and subdued compared to the rest of the cast. Most of what he says winds up being either helpful life advice for the person he's talking to, or logical deductions about the situation the cast is in. Despite his past as a mass-murderer, he's shown to be one of the more caring and selfless members of the cast, and is very honest and upfront about what he did and strongly believes that the crimes he committed were completely unjustifiable and reprehensible. And while the events of his backstory are far from realistic, his emotional reactions to them are beyond relatable. That's not even touching upon the real-world issue his story brings up, how damaging prison conditions can be for someone's mental health. And with Japan's criminal justice system in particular... especially in regards to the psychological torture death row inmates are subjected to... honestly, I'm surprised Ryoma's able to keep up appearances as much as he does. As a result, he acts like you'd expect for someone who considers himself to be a dead man walking. He tries to get other people to keep their distance and not get attached to him. He tries giving positive and insightful advice to the people he meets, if only to try and prevent them from making the same mistakes he did. While he doesn't actively attempt to end his own life, he's more than willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice during the final day of the time limit. And while it's left ambiguous whether he truly allowed Kirumi to kill him, his mental state at the moment was in such shambles that his lack of a reaction definitely makes sense, with the obvious exception of the primal survival instincts due to being drowned. Contrary to what people might say, I don't think his character arc/development was interrupted at all. It was definitely complete, just not in a happy or ideal way. At its core, Ryoma's arc was about a man who, for all intents and purposes, did everything he could to fight back against his mental illnesses and find a reason to live, but ultimately failed. Not because Monokuma decided against giving him a motive, but because he truly did lose everyone close to him--because of his reckless actions, even. The motive video was moreso just confirming what, deep down, he already knew. Lastly, his catchphrase. I feel that it's used with much more variety compared to the other characters, as it's said either referring to someone else, himself, or the group as a whole. Plus it helps that the catchphrase itself is used sparingly, and when it is used, it doesn't feel forced. TL;DR, I go on for an entire mini-essay about how much I adore Ryoma Hoshi, and his presence in V3 pretty much single-handedly propelled it to being my favorite DR game. (and yes, I agree with you, his love hotel scene is the best one, it's so heartwarming and sweet,,,)
Something I really like about Ryoma is that, in the first trial he makes plenty of deductions against different people, but once his theories are disproven he's like. "Ah, sorry, my bad for doubting you."
@@leritykay8911 On top of him being pretty damn smart during the one trial he was in. Not only was he (alongside Angie) one of the only people to suspect the true killer, but he's the only character in the series to be partially correct during a Rebuttal Showdown, and the reasoning he gave for suspecting Shuichi was so irontight that Kaede had to *lie* in order to disprove him.
When it comes to trial 6, I think a lot of people focus solely on what Tsumugi says because, as you said, she steals the show *but* I think it’s important to address what Shuichi is trying to say too, which to me is that; yes, these people we’ve learned to care about over the game aren’t real, the feelings we have towards them *are;* even if Tsumugi was in control, that doesn’t change the pain you feel when you’re favorite character dies or when you share a wholesome free time event with someone, those are real.
That's what I realized too. I just finished the game like an hour ago, and I'm left with that impression that even though the games are fiction, the emotions we had still matter.
@@MrFusion this is basically the correct takeaway. i don't know how anyone, i mean anyone, could finish the epilogue and then be like "wow, kodaka hates me and hates danganronpa!" it's basically a celebration of the series and fiction in general, even with its own...danganronpa-y spin.
I also think people aren't drawing the proper parallel. The main takeaway of the ending is that fiction can impact the real world through touching people's hearts. Tsumugi is doing *exactly* what Spike Chunsoft is doing - crafting characters for you to experience. But Tsumugi takes it a step further, and is so obsessed with making everyone feel despair, that she even wants the audience and the player to feel despair. What's the best way to do that? To break down your suspension of disbelief. The very thing that allows you to connect with characters in the first place. Much like when you watch a horror movie, you don't go into it expecting to "feel good", rather you go in trying to appreciate an experience of dread. Danganronpa wants you to feel despair, but through deceit, like a magic trick. You're led by the nose for the purpose of having that experience of true despair. An appreciation for such despair is not one everyone can share, it's an aqcuired taste one might say, like being into the horror genre is. But you can respect it nontheless.
people don't like it when the source of their escapism is exposed as not real, it breaks the immersion, simple as that. it was too meta for it's own good and definitely feels very 2017ish
Just to get this out of the way: I do consider V3 to be my favorite of the franchise. As an "artistic person" this game's visual style was the most breathtaking (even with some pieces being rushed). While the game did repeat tropes it reinvented them all! (Some for the worse like Korekiyo unfortunately, but others for the better like the "buff character" death.) Gotta say, Shuchi AND Kaede are my favorite protagonists too, which helped carry the story along for me as well. And personally, this cast of Survivors (even if there are only 3) are my favorites. This game had a lot of high highs, and low lows. As much as I would love another Danganronpa game, if this is where the series ended, I could find satisfaction in that.
I personally don't believe the Monokubs are the complete waste of time that they are. If Monodam was the only one, it wouldn't have wasted nearly as much time, and we would still have the interesting dynamic between him and Monokuma, which is the best part of their characters. Monodam wanting everyone to get along but still agreeing with the class trials as a way to bring everyone closer together, while Monokuma is still just his crazy self.
I think the worst part of V3 is definitely how they made Korekiyo a character I could actually love.. and *almost* relate to. From the moment he started to speak on Anthropology upon meeting Kaede was the moment I fell for him. His clear passion and drive for his talent was really refreshing, it reminded me of Gundham (a character that is literally just me) in a way that provided me comfort throughout V3. When I say that I wanted to spend every moment of V3 with Korekiyo, I mean it. His free-time events were so fascinating and I absolutely adored how much he gushed about anthropology. It reminded me of how much I loved talking about certain hobbies I like to the point the other person may not even get a single word in for a while, and I was hooked. I liked his socially unaware aspects and generally defined "weird" characteristics because I fit into those categories too, I'm very socially inept alongside having been classified as "weird" by many of my peers. Korekiyo felt written for me. I also loved his *PRESUMABLY* wholesome relationship he had with his sister at the beginning, before the big twist. I have two older sisters so seeing his sister "treat him well" was really endearing and wholesome for me, even with me noticing some pretty big red flags early on. ..To say I was devastated when the unorthodox character was the Killer for Ch.3 again is an understatement. I was really hoping for Korekiyo to shine as a character, remain in the background from everybody and build up a strong relationship with Shuichi Saihara by using the *(AGAIN,) PERCEIVED AT THE TIME RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS SISTER* to relate to Shuichi for losing a strong, and close, connection. There was so much potential for him that just.. wasn't what needed to happen in Ch.3. It almost makes me want to not be able to relate to the character. I get so much criticism and harassment for liking him, its unreal. I have to go through every mile and hoop to make sure that people understand that he was "misunderstood." The relationship was built by Tsumugi, or the relationship was toxic. But as I've gotten more into Danganronpa again after years of dormancy, I've realized that having to point that out when the game doesn't means nothing. What if the theories are incorrect? They aren't right, and they most certainly don't justify his actions. Korekiyo could've been my second favorite character in all of media. Gundham will always be my first, but I related to Korekiyo nearly as much as I did Gundham. But Korekiyo disappointed me. He disappointed everyone. I will continue to say he's my second favorite V3 character, but its hard to like him when I know that I have something that is roadblocking me from absolutely loving him. I'm only blinding myself to be able to like him. Of course, my favorite character in V3 is also problematic, as she is Angie Yonaga. But Angie is definitely a lot more well-received than Korekiyo (even if I still get harassment) and I simply can love her without the previous qualms in regards to Korekiyo.. outside of the fact that her character can be depicted as.. well.. yea..
see, i don't really care that he's a serial killer. My favourite character in Jojo is Yoshikage Kira, my favourite character in Beastars is the killer, and my favourite character in (decidedly not an anime) Always Sunny is Dennis so to me he's just another crazy guy i can add to the list as one of my favourites. The fascinating anthropologist stuff is also very cool.
@@galarstar052 I don't care that he was a serial killer either, but there is the *other* part (aka, his true motive) that really made his character hard to like.
As another fellow Korekiyo fan (he is my favourite v3 character), it pains me how Danganronpa introduced this brand new rule of "if the two murders are not done by the same culprit, only the culprit for the first murder will be executed if proven guilty" and not use it to its advantage. Korekiyo would've been an incredibly interesting anti-hero for Chapter 4, just how would the rest of the cast feel about having to reside with a serial killer who had that kind of relationship with his own sister?! I understand why, but people are quick to jump on the Korekiyo hate train once Trial 3 reveals its plot twist, but it only made the character that much more fascinating to me. How the game implied he was abused by his sister, and some even believe his "sister persona", aka him switching as a coping mechanism, is comparable to DID, and is a more accurate representation than Toko. (this was briefly covered in another DR youtube analysis but I forgot which one)
I had thr same experience while playing it. As a researcher in the field of humanities (psychology) who happened to date for a while a philosophy major, it is so RARE to see characters who are into soft sciences being pivotal to a fíctional story and having their knowledge acknowledged as valuable. Creators often overlook a very rich and deep part of sciences and it was so cool to see a character like him. Until all his talk about "I'll remain observing howthese people will act on these conditions" was thrown away in order to seesaw effect for the lols because... reasons?
Korekiyo is actually the third time this split personality serial killer trope has been used; peko's whole thing as sparkling justice means that, much like the double kill in chapter 3, it's something that happens in every single game.
They annoyingly do the double kill in Danganronpa 3 Future arc as well, I don't know whether that was a troll move or the writers thought it would be a good idea.
24:40 You sure they were willing? If you trust prologue and what they said before having memory wipe, they were kidnapped off the street. You can't blindly trust the words of the mastermind. Same with everything else Tsumugi is saying. She's just trying to mentally break the survivors.
For me, I always thought that the THH cast had the best dynamics as a group. This fits in with the fact that they were all such good friends. Goodbye Despair had a great mix of great character dynamics and great individual characters. Hell, even Teruteru had a decent motive and Hiyoko isn't just a blank slate of a character. For V3, I always thought they were great as individual characters, but there was a great lacking in the dynamic of the overall group if your name wasn't Shuichi, Kaito, Maki, or Kokichi. Looking at the game as a whole, it had the best graphics, the best cases (yes, even with case 3. Aside from Korekiyo's motive, I will die on the hill that it is a good trial) the best minigames (they finally got hangman's gambit right even if it's still boring) and the best executions. Looking at the ending, I will say this: The foreshadowing, was brilliant. The character reactions, were brilliant. In terms of writing, case 6 is very good. However, because it is a Danganronpa game, and the reveal that the characters thoughts and emotions weren't there own, makes it a disappointing end. They could have at least changed it so the other entries weren't a part of this game, and it was this game universe alone that was like this. If they really wanted to, they could've done some bullshit like "Tsumugi's real name is Junko Enoshima, but she's still an entirely different person because alternate universe" and that would've probably been more funny than anything else. I don't hate what we got, but I wouldve preferred anything else. What I would've done is make it so that this killing game was an entirely scripted television series with all these "students" actually being actors playing these characters and Tsumugi is the director. The television was really hyped up because something and Tsumugi broke from the stress and had a mental breakdown and thought "hey, what if it was more realistic" and sealed everyone in the studio and erased their memories except for their memories ofbtye character they weren't meant to play and they end up thinking these characters are actually them. If that was the big twist, I think that could've been good
@@fluffiddy6515 Not canon though, its up for speculation. However, I goddamn wish it was, losing memories is a fine plot device but creating memories is just way too much. Now you don't even know which is which. Anything can literally be retconned on a whim which just fucks consistency.
Even though I enjoyed it, I agree with most of the criticism with this game. The only criticism I disagree with is the criticism against weird characters. If you were in a killing game, you would want to make your character stand out the most to have a lot of screen time.
Oh absolutely! This is one of the criticisms of V3 that I've seen other people bring up that I personally disagree with, as I think part of the fun is the ridiculousness. I still love the other two classes more, but it's only by a slim margin.
@@etam8099 DR1 cast is not forgettable in the slightest. I love every cast in every game and even DR1 is memorable because while the characters are more average with their colors and clothes they have very defining features. Yasuhiro's crazy hair, Hifumi's spike, Mondo's corn hair, Kiyotaka's eyebrows etc Every cast is fuckin weird and I love it. The only thing realistic about DR1 was that Leon execution. Jesus it was sick
i really hate what they did with korekiyo because as someone really interested in anthropology and human culture he was a really cool character to me. I also really liked his design and the way he interacted with others. But they just had to ruin it with the incest stuff, and unfortunately that alone makes it difficult to enjoy the character like I did before. it also means people give me weird looks when i say that i liked him, and i dont really blame them for doing that considering his true nature.
Korekiyo was and still is my favorite v3 character, and although I do think his incest side is weird as hell and an incredibly strange plot twist, I can't help but think it's this aspect, along with his "sister" persona that made him especially interesting and helped stand him out from other characters. It's implied he is a survivor of abuse, as it was his sister who wanted to form this sort of relationship with him, and him switching to his sister persona is a way for him to cope with the fact that she is no longer alive and beside him. I saw one comment say it was better representation for people with different personality disorders than Toko (because notice he panics and has a breakdown before changing character). I might be wrong on some of this as it's been years since I played the game and got into the fandom side of it, but in my opinion, it really helped round his character just a little more.
"it also means people give me weird looks when i say that i liked him, and i dont really blame them for doing that considering his true nature" F those people, those are the same people who would dismiss villain's point only because of them being bad and you liking some bad guy means that you like mass murderers etc.
“You got the man hating lesbian, or sapphic” watch out the fandom is gonna come for your ass on that one. Honestly I hate the stupid Tenko sexuality debate
She's simply sapphic in game, but is based specifically on harmful lesbian stereotypes. I swear this fandom doesn't understand nuanced takes and yells at each other about anything, lol. The debate is incredibly stupid.
I will say that I like V3 but I had mixed feelings on the ending. I get what they were going for but to me those types of endings just make me feel like I kinda wasted my time. I do appreciate the ending but I still do have relatively mixed feelings on it. I also disliked the flashback lights as a plot point. Also, the game’s environment didn’t really sell the feeling of being trapped to me. I still think that V3 is good but the first game is still my personal favorite.
I'd say V3 could be more interesting if they actually let you choose Kaede or Shuichi depending on the outcome of the first trial but ofc who wants to write so much script for both characters when you can just do this instead.
Good video! v3 is by far my favorite danganronpa story and the way they implemented the theme of truth vs lies to evolve into Reality vs Fiction is my favorite thing about it. However, i feel that this video and many others don't seem to tap in into the fact that Tsumugi openly lies to the characters in the end and while you dont have proof for many of the things, you ultimately have the key to know that, at the very least, the idea of the characters' past personalities are not how she showed them to be. Knowing this, you have no reason to really trust anything she says unless its very obviously true ,like the audience aspect. This is by design, with the last flashback shuichi has imagining how the characters would have reacted to becoming ultimates being ultimately an invitation to replay the game. I feel that danganronpa v3 in particular is the one of the three games in the franchise that asks to truly be dissected from head to toe in order to see how it goes and then, ultimately build up a proper image of it [a task NOT AT ALL EASY SINCE ITS A GAME THAT LASTS OVER 19 HOURS LMAOOO]. That being said, i feel that you ignore the fact that despite everything, danganronpa is a japanese franchise, and , while some of the things it says applies to american culture, like the excessively demanding and insulting fan, you have to keep in mind that its more approach to the message of the game being something more akin to "fiction has power but ultimately we still should live in reality" comes from a country where people are becoming more and more introverted and a fair amount of current media that would be in DRV3's market is capitalizing into both excessive escapsim and excessive obsession, cultivating and feeding into it. i feel that explains why it kinda went hard on it imo. Ultimately, i feel that not knowing that or not taking it into consideration is not something that makes a reading of media "wrong" but i feel that since this video is more focused on why the reception was Bad i feel you probably should have been more receptive on it? it doesnt change the fact that the video is a good watch though PS: i feel that the fact that tsumugi seemingly wrote the characters' backstories and the monokubs' personalities its really funny how her fetish for incest is somewhat of a clue as to why it was such a recurring element in the game but i feel we could have lived without it too lmao
You know, that's actually a perspective that I haven't heard before and you raise a good point about it being targeted towards a Japanese audience! I suppose I'm only really qualified to talk about it from a western perspective lol. So thanks for bringing that to my attention! And yes, I totally agree. V3's easily the most fun game to dissect and I loved how its themes evolved over the course of the story! (And Tsumugi inserting her fetish into everything is darkly funny, although I do wish it was left out :') )
One way to fix the Monokubs would be to have the students figure out that they can kill them (it's against the rules to hurt Monokuma but that doesn't include the Monokubs) and they find ways to pick them off one by one. It would also help it feel like the students were doing something to escape the school (because the Monokubs control the main threat to them, the Exisals) because after the first chapter it mostly just seems like everybody bar Kokichi doesn't do anything to escape between chapters 1 and 5
The beauty of Danganronpa V3 is that the ending, as well as the reaction the fanbase had, proved Kokichi's philosophy to be correct the whole time "Trick the entire world and they'll believe that lie, the real truth isn't that great anway"
I think it's the opposite. Ouma was offended by the fact that the killing game just used them as props for entertainment, but he himself was still a prop for entertainment. He believed in not being boring. Saihara in chapter 6 realizes that they're best option to end the killing game was to do the opposite of what Ouma did. Saihara chose to BE boring, to bore the audience into leaving. The tragedy of Ouma is that he hated the idea that they were just puppets for entertainment, but that's exactly what he was, Ouma's action drove so much of the plot and thus, the entertainment value of V3.
@@phosphorescenceking6114 no one was boring in the game, Succi didn't choose to be boring, he choose to stop playing the game, rejecting the possibility of having another DR1 DR2 type of ending, Ouma's actions didn't forced the plot to continue but the others did, don't believe me? In chapter 4 his plan was to hide the truth and mass mercy kill everyone, that fails so then he reveals the truth of the outside world to gut their need to press onward, that fails again so he uses the Hydraulic Press trick as the final card up his sleeve to stop everything. The only common denominator to all of this, is the cast (especially Shuichi) that keep fighting for the truth, thus actually moving the plot forward against any attempt of Kokichi to actually stop it, because that's the problem of Shuichi, his need to be helpful for the others, and his will to maintain Kaede's wish, drove him to a near obsession over finding that said truth, when there's some truths that are wrong fighting for, Kokichi factually states so in chapter 4, in chapter 5 it becomes even more apparent when Shuichi actually becomes an indirect ally of Monokuma in his behavior, in chapter 6 his need to bring the truth over Keade's case, reveals another truth that no one in the fandom wanted to hear
@@etam8099 I just realized that that's very ironic in the sense that Shuichi in chapter 1 says how he hates his talent because he fears that finding the truth is worse than what we see at first, only for that fear to come true in the final chapter
@@krk170 exactly and it's not shown just in the final chapter either, Danganronpa is a work of fiction, everyone knows that, but you don't want to be reminded of that, because why would you? isn't fiction just one big well constructed lie anyway? it's a lie that you like, because it can also change you despite being just a lie, you can be invested in it, but as soon as you get reminded the cold hard truth of it being...ya'know just a lie, then everything starts falling apart, it's like cold water in your face, no one wants to hear their favorite fictional work being just that...fiction because it hurts...that truth hurts, we didn't needed to hear it, we could just kept beliving that lie, that "beautiful lie" like how the name of the OST suggests, keep fighting for the truth, because lies are bad and the truth it's the only thing that matters, that's what Shuichi choose to belive and that's pretty much what anyone will always tell you, well now we know that ain't the case, but Kokichi was the first that knew this before all of us did, lies can be better than the truth and that's on itself a truth, that we are indirectly proving every time we rage on that ending, it's kinda frightening how much you can extend Kokichi's philosophy to any fictional work (as well as reality vs virtual reality) but we were already proven this, Nagito's philosophy also shown how much forsaight he had regarding the structure of Danganronpa's society (as well as good and evil) that actually reflects also the real one, Nagito and Kokichi are nothing more than the proof of Kodaka's writing skills, so it's sad to see them being treated as just giant memes in the fandom
At the time I really enjoyed the ending, but on reflecting it just feels so hollow. Sure the game argues that the feelings we had are real, but that was with the context that the things that were happening to the characters were actually happening and not something scripted and with everyone doing consensually. I mean I'm sure if you gave a hobo $20 because you wanted to help him get back on his feet, those feelings would evaporate if you then found him driving off in a Ferrari. And yes, the game does give hints that Tsumugi is lying, and it is ultimately left ambiguous, but that just seems like backpedaling and honestly completely ruins the ending if that were the case. So Tsumugi spent 4 hours telling you about complete nonsense. The ambiguity honestly hurts it more than helps because now you're not left with much at all. Ambiguity works in different works like with the Sopranos ending, American Psycho, and The Thing because your mind races on how you can speculate what occurred and how it would affect the narrative and the characters. But with v3 there really is nothing to even talk about. I'm fine with Danganronpa 1 and 2 being fiction because they at least happened in their own universe. You can't be more fictional. But v3 is the odd one out in that after everything, there's really nothing left for you BESIDES the ending. No questions to be had, no speculation about the characters. Questions like what were Shuichi's family life like or how did Kurumi run the country? What kind of other inventions did Miu invent? Was Himiko's magic real? All of these questions have a very unsatisfying answer. Sure, you can ignore the ending and still speculate but I don't understand wasting time on something that would be irrevocably wrong. I really dislike seeing narrative potential just trounced with no good justification. If you wanted to make a sequel or even a spinoff, what could it possibly be about? It's the kind of game that I'm sure most people wouldn't play more than once, perhaps twice to see all the foreshadowing.
I love you for saying this, I agree so much about the game backpedaling. It really seems like a way to cover up the plotholes rather than intended ambiguity, like in American Psycho, where you can speculate about how many of the killings actually happened.
I think you need to reevaluate, if the fact that it was scripted hurts you to the point where now you no longer enjoy the ending. Think about what you're really saying in this context. Suppose Tsugumi didn't deterministically alter their personalities and feelings to a tee. What then? Would they no longer be following a script? On a meta level, of course not, because it's still a video game. And yet for some reason you can overlook the fact that they're scripted by a real person, versus a fictional character being scripted to say they scripted them. Do you see how logically this distinction doesn't make sense? In the context of the message being delivered, they are equivalent. Truth and lies, reality and fiction, *doesn't matter* in the end. What's actually going on here, and why you feel upset, is because Tsumugi ruined your suspension of disbelief deliberately in order to induce despair in both you and the danganronpa audience. And it worked. She is an antagonist who truly wants to spread despair to everyone, including you, the player.
@@Google_Censored_Commenter Even if that were true, if a game just leaves you feeling empty (not the kind were you just felt too much and are unable to process, but the kind were you feel like you wasted your time) that game has just not been worthwile, no matter how you try to justify it afterwards. And on that note I'm going to counter argue that even if Danganronpa is all about despair, none of the games ever intended to let despair get the upper hand by the end, especially not with the player. It has always been about overcoming despair and staying optimistic, no matter what, so if the game actually made you feel despair and nothing else...then it just failed.
@@maer_chen There was like 60 hours of content prior to chapter 6 that was a bunch of intertwined relationships and character development, so no, it wasn't all just "despair". Even if it's all fiction, that doesn't retroactively make everything you experienced meaningless.. that's kinda the fucking point of the game. And I guess you missed it. Danganronpa is about subverting your expectations, ESPECIALLY V3. Every 10 minutes some random thing would come up that twists your expectations. You cannot seriously tell me that you went into a Danganronpa game expecting Hope to win every time and not have that expectation shattered. Like come the fuck on. If that's enough to make the game a waste of your time, not only did you miss the point entirely, but I question if you're a mature enough an adult to handle such experiences.
@@Google_Censored_Commenter If you say so. I'm not arguing with someone who gets so butthurt about their favorite game getting criticism, that they can't have a discussion without getting personal. Have a good day
15:53 and also, violence from monokuma on monomi has an entirely different dynamic going for it. Monokuma calls monomi his sister, that's true, but we know that they are not related at all, are on opposite sides of goals, and they are opposing each other ALL the time. Monotaro and Monophanie on the other hand are supposed to be siblings and in that scene she is PREGNANT WITH HIS BABY. That does not give the same energy of two entities who fight with each other (Monomi getting attacked by Monokuma isn't domestic abuse, it's just monokuma being evil.) Monotaro physically abusing his pregnant sister is ON SO MANY LEVELS of domestic abuse it's actually insane. I remember seeing that scene and getting actually chills cause that was so messed up
The main reason I dislike V3 is because it feel like a huge retcon to me Like, danganronpa 1 and 2 had two different meaning, but worked very well together They make you understand that despairing and looking at the past is a worst choice that being optimistic and looking at your future instead, however, Nagito's character also show that you can't be too hopeful, or else you'll end up insane, quite a great message But then V3 came and went "OOOOH, it's all fiiiiiiction :D nothing actually happened!!" and it just ruin it for me
I like how everybody is giving their own takes-- Personally for me I see how the "it was all fake" fits into the meta ending, but outside of the message they were trying to sendit was highly disappointing for me to see them say everything was a lie, it felt like all the hours you poured into the game and its characters meant nothing. It's just frustrating to see such an interesting concept get thrown out the window with such an uninteresting ending as "it was all a lie lol". Not only that but its hard to say that there will even be a Danganronpa 4, if there is considering what's been said in v3, I find it hard to think it would be narratively enjoyable as they literally destroyed the entire universe within the span of a single trial. At that point whatever it is probably wouldn't even be Danganronpa. However if you ignore the whole they destroyed the entire series bit, then yeah I guess the ending was cool and meta.
I know its been a year already but i just finished the game like an hour ago and I don't even know how you arrived to that conclusion, you're focusing to much on the the lie and how it's all fake and all, when you should be focusing on what Shuichi is trying to say, YES they're fictional, but the feelings we felt throughout the whole journey is real, that's what he meant by fiction can change reality, it can touches people emotion and people can grew to love them as characters, even though they're fictional, our love for them as an audience is real, how can you say it meant nothing when you care so much about them? Shuichi also said something along the lines of "I don't care if all of this was fake, the tragedy i felt was real" if it meant something to you, who cares if it's fictional, that's what Shuichi did, he didn't care if it's fictional and still believes in himself, that's just my thoughts on this, you dont have to agree with me, and i dont have to agree with you too, imo this is the best game in the whole series with the best protagonist too
@@arcueid3352 hii yeah its weird to see a comment from a year ago lol. first i wanna say i completely respect and understand your opinion! im not one to shit on somebody because we have different and especially not over something as minor as a video game. it's cool to hear your interpretation of shuichi's words on the meaning of the ending. however i do still somewhat stand by my opinion--because part of the fantasy feeling for me was the immersion. and i would agree yeah i do think a little too deep into it, but thats just because theres a lot to think about. part of the allure of having complex characters is getting the sense theyre real personalities with backstories that we learn over time. for me one of the big things in storytelling has always been the sense that the world moves even when a camera isnt there, but when they introduced the twist it undid all of that glam for me, because the reality was when the cameras weren't there the world wasnt either--which yes it is just a video game lol of course thats the case--but when its brought up as a part of the actual content it feels weird and ended up driving me out of the immersion and into confusion. annnnyways, i still loved the series and all, v3 was by no means a bad game but i just think the ending wasn't made for everyone, which is fine! some people are probably more unhinged about it than me but personally i just enjoyed seeing all the fun and interesting concepts realized to the end speaking of which theres a new danganronpa-esque game that just came out and you should totally check it out! its by the creator of danganronpa!
This was a really great video and it actually gave me new insight on certain flaws with the game that I didn't notice before. Honestly,I can see the arguments for why v3 is the most flawed game in the series,but personally,I love all three danganronpa games equally for different reasons: -Danganronpa 1 taught me that even if the outside world will be hard for me to deal with after I finish school,there's still hope for me to find in the darkness. -Danganronpa 2 taught me that even if I am a social outcast,I still am who I am and I can choose my own future,especially since the future as hajime put it:"It's an endless sea,you can try to go anywhere." DRV3:Taught me that fiction,even if it's a lie,can change the world.(This hit me the most emotionally since fiction has had the most impact in shaping who I am as a person). All of these games are obviously flawed,but if it meant something to me and many people,then I believe there is some merit to be given to this series despite it's flaws,same for V3. Here's hoping that now that Kodaka has moved on from danganronpa,his new projects will be better and won't repeat the same flaws. But ultimately,for all the highs and lows,I will always love these games. P.S(Glad I'm not the only one who found the drama with kaito in chapter 5 of v3 to be better than the one with chiaki in chapter 5 in danganronpa 2)
@@etam8099 I wouldn't go so far as to say she"sucks"so much as she doesn't have that much characterization going for her. I still appreciate her though
Supposedly, the Monokubs were added to executions to censor them: how the Monokubs ended up was how the blackened was meant to look at the end of the execution. To me this only really seems to hold up for Kaede & Kirumi’s executions but there may be evidence somewhere in development notes or online. It is possible Korekiyo & Gonta’s executions were changed to kill off the remaining Monokubs once they implemented this idea ( if it is the reason ).
happy to see the v3 video, i've been looking forward to this!!! i felt the "feeling good during the ending, feeling bad directly after" with regards to the ending hella hard, i literally spent like weeks just thinking about it and mulling over everything that happened in the entire game i do think i like it a lot now though, and i think that a big part is the fact that it's so ambiguous as to what's a truth and what's a lie. at first i felt really weird about how tsumugi says that everything was written, but i think that there's a definite possibility that tsumugi lied about that in that last trial (though it's impossible to know the extent to which she lied, or if she even knew she was lying) the biggest thing that makes me think that tsumugi at least unknowingly lied is the prologue, actually. everyone's there with their memories intact, including tsumugi, who is also in a school uniform. it's implied that this part was not broadcast to viewers, so it's odd that tsumugi is wearing a school uniform and also is seemingly unaware of what's happening. additionally, the students remember being kidnapped, which doesn't add up with tsumugi's claim that they willingly signed up for the killing game. also, i don't remember who, but one of the students says that they "don't have an ultimate talent" in response to a monokub asking if they have an ultimate talent, which is an odd response if ultimate talents don't exist in that world (also this is just conjecture but one possibility is that the students had their memories edited twice between the prologue and chapter 1; one to fake the auditions, and one to give them ultimate memories) so then considering that, it's very possible that even tsumugi's memories were tampered, meaning that she may have been just a regular high school student instead, and then was given memories that made her think that she was a team danganronpa employee, and further, it's possible that hope's peak is real, because of the fact that ultimate talents may also be real. however, we can never know what's the real truth, because at the end of the day, all we have is words to go by, and i think that it's a really good reinforcement of the entire theme of truth and lies; even after completing the game, it's impossible to know what really happened also semi-unrelated, but i also think that the ending is an interesting commentary on stories as a whole! like: through the entire game, there's a ton of touching and heart wrenching moments, like kaede and shuichi's parting, and gonta's trial, and maki and kaito getting closer only for kaito to die, and the ending tells you that it was all written, which makes it feel cheap, in a way. but then, danganronpa v3 is a game, which was written... so does it matter whether it was written even in the game? does it invalidate the feelings you felt while playing and experiencing the characters and their story? it's SO interesting, and it's something that i hadn't ever thought about before beating drv3 i could go on for a really long time but that's pretty much the gist of why i love the ending!! that being said, i definitely see why a lot of people don't like it, because it is EXTREMELY meta, even for the danganronpa series, and such an extreme, polarizing ending to follow a 50 hour game is insane (though i wouldn't have it any other way!!) sorry for the huge essay sakjdhfl, looking forward to future videos!! :D
V3 was my favorite game in the whole franchise! The characters design, art style, class trials and the ending is amazing! I feel as though most people hate it because it was the end of the franchise even though that was the whole point of it. The ending was the first I had ever seen of it. It was so unique in saying that the whole world was fake, which, it is! The main part I love about the game is that Tsumugi is somewhat portrayed as the toxic side of the Danganronpa community. Obsessed with it so much that they won’t consume anything else but that specific show or book. The production team clearly showed that they wanted to separate from working on Danganronpa to working on something else. As showed as the artist of Danganronpa moves on to something else which is Enigma Archives: Rain Code.
Honestly I'm surprised to find out today that people dislike V3, it's also my favorite in the series. To me, the worst game in the Danganronpa series is easily Danganronpa 2 Goodbye Despair. I feel like it lacks good characters, story writing and ect. I feel like the game especially falls apart after chapter 2, after that playing it felt more and more miserable the further you got in the game. That's just my opinion though.
@@ShadeShake really? to me THH is the worst one, it's so flat compared to DR2 and V3, that's also why no one brings it up when talking who's the best DR, it's either a talk between V3 and DR2, too bad people don't realise they're both really good games and beat THH anyday, which is the actual worst DR
@@etam8099 How is THH bad, it is the killing game that has least flaws. It is also the only one that Monokuma has never forced the casts to kill. The characters, the motives are realistic and make the most sense. The survivors were well-developed and slowly built connection with each other. By the final chapter, we can see that each characters has different reaction to the others.
@@Cy-pq8vw the whole realistic motives never made that much sense to me, in a franchise like Danganronpa (full of crazy shit) having down to earth motives or people is so bland, plus Monokuma did force people to kill on THH too, the problem is that even that was hella shallow: money/secrets, 1-4 is the only case i can think of that was actually good, but it pales in comparison to 2-4 and 3-4, the cast didn't really developed that much either, and the interactions with the cast is nothing more than uninteresting, Makoto is a gummy teddy-bear and Togami is basically a spoiled rich brat that actually does stuff just to stroke his never ending ego, his development is literally him becoming less of an asshole as time went on, Sakura was okay, Celes is a walking contradiction, Hifumi useless, GJ gets actual development in UDG, in THH she's just a simp for Togami, Hagakure serves even less purpose than Hifumi, Mondo was meh and his bro relationship with Ishimaru never went anywhere, it was even presented in a weird way too, with him wenting Ultra Instinct for no fucking reason, Chihiro or better AI Chihiro was used as a plot device to save Makoto from getting cucked, the normal version was negged any ability to develop, because a dude had a brother inferiority complex against an innocent who had no link to that, Hina without Sakura is basically donut simp with a hints of fanservice (this gets even worse in the anime) Sayaka and Leon have more importance as memes, Mukuro gets treated better in the IF version, Junko is just awful and the final chapter of her saying "despair" and Mokoto "hope" in a really ridiculous way, makes me laugh everytime and makes it impossible to take it seriously, the thematics of the game are presentd in their most basic way, hope=Makoto=pure innocent cinnamon boi vs despair=Junko=pure fucking evil who did everything because she was bored...and the anime makes that revelation even worse as soon as you see how stupid her plan was...Kyoko is the only character that i found actually interesting, her past is linked with the actual setting, and her character is mysterious yet manages to stand out, especially considering how weird the others are, unfortunately her character is not a contagonist, which denies her any ability to actually brings something in the table with her, rather than being an assistant of Makoto, if the roles had to be switched everything would have made more sense, granted she did cause some tension only later on in the game but everything gets resolved way too quickly I didn't wanted to talk about the gameplay because that's unfair and the trials yeah...i think i made my point already
This was an awesome video! I really loved how you incorporated both the good and the more problematic aspects of the game in your analysis. These very iffy moments are definitely there and need to be acknowledged more. When I played v3 for the first time I was actually blown away by the ending and I had a lot of trouble understanding why people hate the game so much and it's when I started watching videos like this where I started to understand the other side more. I'm starting to think that the biggest factor in determining whether someone will like v3 or not is their interpretation of all the revelations in the last trial. I feel like most of the people that disliked the ending took Tsumugi's words at face value. When she claims that she wrote some of the plotlines and that the cast's personalities were entirely fabricated, they just interpret this as fact and see that as a bad plot twist invalidating the agency of the character and every major event in the previous chapter. In this sense, I can understand how v3's ending would be awful. But some people just interpreted what she says as lies. After all, it wouldn't be the first time an antagonist tried to deceive the heroes in a danganronpa game, Junko did it in dangan 2. Plus, some of these revelations just don't make sense with what happened in the prologue of the game. The personalities don't match and if the characters are big danganronpa fans, how come they didn't recognize Rantaro who participated in the last season? When you recall small contradictory moments like this, the shocking ''Truth'' you're presented with starts to crack and you realize it doesn't hold up, the characters did have agency. Even if some of the beats were fabricated, all of it couldn't have been fiction. You witnessed all of it firsthand by playing the previous chapters and instead of losing meaning, these moments just start feeling more meaningful cuz you realize that the antagonist of the game is trying to take these moments away from you by claiming they're just fiction. And just that really shifts the way you see the trial. It's no longer just you, the player, going up against the ''toxic'' danganronpa fanbase. You are defending the power of fiction to change reality against a world that says fiction is just entertainment and has no real meaning. In that sense, it really works well with the rebellious spirit fostered by the ending of the previous danganronpa games. In dangan 1 you reject the ideals enforced upon you by a school and its self-proclaimed principal; In dangan 2 it goes up a notch and you have to reject the ideals enforced upon you by a self-proclaimed past self, and in v3 you reject the ideals enforced by a world of self-proclaimed like-minded fans and the ideals of danganronpa itself. I may be reading a bit too much into this, but I genuinely find that quite poetic and feel like this is probably as quintessentially danganronpa as the ending of the last danganronpa game should've been haha.
Honestly I kinda took a lot of the things Tsumugi claimed as straight bullshit. Elements like the first blackened having the chance to go out scott free seem like tiebreakers that wouldn't be there if everything was carefully scripted, or those awful displays of incompetence like those lore books being fundamentaly wrong when the gimmick of the season was having Keebs as an speaker for the audience, wich would be able to correct them on the spot. The Idea Tsumugi seemingly had to shove the inacuarate Hope's Peak lore to prevent a stalemate shows she and her team weren't nearly as in control as she claimed.
Though it of course has its flaws, I really do love this game. I've gone back and forth with my opinion on the ending for years now and I think I've settled on an answer. The ending is long and drags on, but the fact you keep playing means you care. The game had this conclusion before you even began playing it, but that doesn't make what happened between points A and B meaningless. The idea that things that are not 'real' or are 'fictional' in the eyes of others are still valid and important resonates with me personally. I think this message may hit so hard actually BECAUSE of my attachment to this franchise. As goofy and downright stupid as it can be, I still found meaning in something that some people inherently ridicule and bash on because it's an anime visual novel hybrid that's problematic at times and strange at others. V3's ending embodies the idea that it is completely okay and well within everyones right to care about what they feel is real, even if the rest of the world calls it fiction, and that makes me appreciate and even adore this ending despite its problems.
I remember reading somewhere that junko actually held a record for being most the cosplayer character, which Is why I always loved the fact the mastermind of v3 was the ultimate cosplayer cosplaying as junko
You know, I've never played this game, I've just watched people play it, and I don't have the attention span to fully comprehend the lore dumps that are this series' trial 6s. So the more I actually look into V3 trial 6, the more confused and saddened I am. I knew what the premise was for a long time, but I was in a conversation with someone I knew about V3 ships, and recalling that conversation combined with this video made me see this ending in a way I probably should've seen before. I told my friend I liked Kaimaki, and he said "Why? Maki was written by Tsumugi to like Kaito. It's not real." And I said "Huh. Yeah, I guess so. I guess that's a valid opinion." Now, I still like Kaimaki, but it really made me think that this ending really makes it seem as if all of this was pointless. These games never meant anything. The previous 2 casts never really existed, and these characters were just written to be a certain way. But then again, did they really write Kokichi to pretend to be the mastermind? Was Kaede always going to try to kill the mastermind, which is why Tsumugi knew how to frame her? The idea that everything up until Shuichi decided to abandon both hope and despair was scripted really takes the fun out of a lot of this game. This ending is just so ridiculously meta that I never knew what to think about it. I just don't see a fourth game happening because of it. Now, I'd gladly eat my words one day if they prove me wrong, but I just don't know how they'd be able to find a way out of the corner they wrote themselves into.
Also, I feel like this goes without saying, but excellent job with this video essay, Tinyleaf! Seeing people analyzing these games while trying to look at things as objectively as they can(because no one can completely remove their bias, but we should still try sometimes) is always interesting. V3 is weird for me because it has some of my favorite characters in the series, but so many things just don't make that much sense to me. The comment section is super cool too since people are doing their own analysis in addition to yours.😅 It really is fascinating just how many different opinions there are when it comes to this series.
I honestly love V3 (it is in my top 5 favorite games) for how it leaves so many contradictions to leave the door open for discussion. Tsumugi did say she wrote the characters, but she also shows a clip of the beginning of the game that is completely different from what was shown to begin with. That is to say at no point during the last trial was it obvious what she was saying was true or false, if anything she was tripping over herself and pretty much banking on the gang not noticing while they were being bombarded with information. She could have been lying about everything or telling the truth about everything; we don't know for sure. To me, since the game does take place sometime after the original events, Tsumugi might have been a follower of Junko and created an elaborate backstory due to her fondness to fictional stories.
Finally got a chance to watch this video. I share your take on the ending. I felt really bitter and empty when I finished the game and was pretty devastated that all the character development might have all been scripted. All in all though I really had fun playing the game, obviously not even close to my favorite game out there, but it was certainly a unique message from game developers that I thought was really cool. This was an amazing video. Your scripts are always beautiful and this video did not disappoint. Love your content! Keep up the great work!
If you like it or not it honestly wouldn’t of happened either way the whole point of the bring back to life bullshit was basically just a troll from MonoKuma Messing with the students feelings since they knew that the students still didn’t believe the deaths of the students. The “bodies” that were going to be used to bring back the students were literally made out of wax’s The actual bodies was on identified keade The body was literally crushed there was no way they would get her body to bring her back The midget boy was so horribly destroyed by the piranhas but there was no way they could take that kirumie (and yes I know I typed her name wrong but I don’t give a fuck) her organs were so terribly damaged that there was no way it could be recovered and rantoro… Well I mean getting hit by a metal ball to the head is not a joke so yeah if they bring him back he would have brain damage.
Hot take: Angie is one of the best V3 characters. I don't think Angie is especially malicious. She's a foil to Kokichi. Kokichi wants to prevent murders by raising alerts so nobody lets their guard down. Angie wants to prevent murders by keeping everyone unified. Both come off poorly because of how extreme their approaches are, however that makes sense for both characters. It goes so far as Angie arguably being among the most honest characters for that matter. The religion can definitely come off as sketchy until the very real possibility of Atua existing. There are several points in the game where Angie suggests an answer, gets debunked, then a later chapter proves her right - and all instances have her argument as told to her by Atua. One example being in the first trial, she suggests the culprit used a hidden passage to get into the secret room. While that may seem coincidental, her freetime events include one where she tells Shuichi her art is made by allowing Atua to use her body to create the work, and Shuichi becomes overwhelmed and briefly faints from seeing a doodle she drew in a few seconds. She also talks about how no matter what she does, the people from her home worship and follow her so she never gets told "no," literally resulting in her developing a crush on Shuichi after he tells her to not touch him. Basically everything she does is in service to a god that seems to have actually given her some form of supernatural ability or to maintain order from the viewpoint of someone who has never learned boundaries. She gets done dirty by the trial, like nearly everyone involved with V3 chap. 3.
It makes sense they are so fucking wacky. Its a TV show, not a tool of destruction like the first game. No one wants to watch a show if Byakuya is reading for 12 hours, Aoi swimming and eating all day(unless you're a creep), Makoto doing jackshit if its not a trial, Kyoko just analyzing, Toko freaking out over nothing and Yasuhiro hitting the kush.
When I beat this game I genuinely felt like my mind had fractured because so much of me loved the game and so much of me hated it. It felt so disrespectful. It took me an entire year to sleuth and headcanon it into a place I could accept. And after seeing the comments pages of different Danganronpa videos from many youtubers, I see what fans they were talking about.
The best critique if EVER heard of the ending is that it didn’t feel satisfying because it wasn’t 16 different students, it was just 16 Tsumugi’s cosplaying. That is one of the best ways I’ve ever heard someone describe the ending.
I didn't like the ending for V3 because it made me feel like there was no point in getting invested in any of the characters and their struggles were meaningless. I didn't like Tsumugi as the mastermind because at the point where she was using her ultimate talent in the trial, it felt like it was mocking the people she "cosplayed". I was upset when they switched from kaede to shuichi (he did grow on me) because I liked the idea of playing as a girl and having an ultimate detective again was kinda boring to me. i wonder if it could have been interesting to play through the game multiple times through either kaede's or shuichi's pov, you would have to change the first case but then neither of them would have to die. also, the double murder case could have been interesting because monokuma brought up that they only needed to figure out who the first killer was, so I feel it could have been more interesting if there had been two killers and the second guy got anyway with murder and everyone had to deal with it
Imagine if kaede and shuichi were protags at the same time Imagine being able to switch perpectives throughout playing Wouldn’t that be so much more interesting then just killing the protag at the start? Then maybe shuichi would stop being emo hajime and start developing his own personality
Agreed completly, i honestly don't understand the need to kill off a protagonist to just switch to another one that it ins't that interesting. The only time i saw Shuichi's backstory was when he said about the first case he solved and etc.... and that's it. There's nothing more than that. C'mon we needed more of him, he's the PROTAGONIST!
I remember how chapter 4 really threw me back into the mix. The victim was genuinely shocking not only on who it was, but their victim reveal was so mortifying I became very interested again. The trial and culprit reveal only made it even greater due to the entirely different circumstances the case was placed on.
I know the last trial is EXTREMELY hated on by most, but it for sure had some of the best lines and parts of Killing Harmony, of course this doesn’t mean the ending is good, but I still had at least a bit of fun when convincing Himiko and Maki not to vote. (Also Komaeda:))))
I think it is more or less that the ending feels like an easy out for plot and story logic as well as being a middle finger to those who invested time and money with the game series. The most idiotic thing you can do is hand-wave everything as it all being a dream or simulation or, in this case, a game series with deep and well written lore and in-world history that is tossed out the window to attempt to instill "despair" on the player when it just causes anger and distrust, not sadness.
I dont take the ending as intending to instill despair at all. It wants you to take away the same moral as the characters do. Fiction/lies arn't real and can't ever be, but thats okay. If it affects you, if it makes you feel something, that's real enough for it to still matter.
@@BHox01 I'm pretty it is the wrong emotion. I was going to try the series out until I heard about this. Then, I decided the series is not worth my money or time. They used a writing trope that I despise.
@@ajflink How is it NOT illogical ? Well since you don't seem to care about spoiler, you know that the end of the 2 reveal that the game is a simulation ? Well, if you hate these endings at this point, indeed don't play the series, it's not for you.
Oh oh! The fact that NIS America did a whole shit ton of anti polynesian writing with Angie and her entire character making her to be this very weird girl who does weird things and is weird (I belive the original Angie read more as like the girl who ate paint in art class than like full on insulting polynesian people)
Wow this is definitely my favorite V3 analysis video, hands down. There's so much to say about this game, and whether you consider it good or bad, it doesn't change the fact that it has prompted endless discussion and food for thought. The fact that Kodaka and the developers told a story how they wanted without the intention to meet long-time fans' expectations is admirable in itself. I'm kind of on the same boat with you in terms of not having a definitive answer as to whether or not I liked the ending. I do lean a little more towards liking it, and I think that's partly because I didn't feel as strongly attached to the characters as some fans are (the over-exaggerations compared to the past games wasn't my cup of tea either). Because of this, I felt a bit of satisfaction with the ending offering an explanation as to why the characters are like this, and why some poorly handled tropes are incorporated into the game. I also believe that the ending of the game invites some out-of-the-box thinking. Are the characters as we know them really dead? Is anything Tsumugi said even remotely true? I feel like according to V3, you don't have to think of them in any way you don't want to. That's the magic of fiction. Ironically, this is probably also something that Tsumugi takes away from her ideals of fiction, which only gives me more reason to be pissed off at her for putting me and others through this kind of despair just to make some kind of point. I think it's understandable that people are pissed off by this ending, and in some ways, it really does feel like a copout. Again though, props to Kodaka and Spike Chunsoft for telling a story that they knew many wouldn't be happy with or agree with.
This was a fantastic video! You went over all the points extremely well and I love that you provided sources for stuff! You're . Really under-rated youtuber! Honestly my dislike of the ending is actually much different from yours. One reason why I dislike the "Its all fictional" bit was because, YEAH NO DUH ITS FICTIONAL. It's essentially a "twist" that isn't actually a twist, and this applies to all "it's all fabricated" endings like "it was all just a dream". A post twist usually explains a certain part of the story and change your worldview on it (such as the Drq students locking themselves up in school explaining the locks and photo, abd the future foundation aI reformation project explaining all the supernatural stuff), but these endings change NOTHING, and all you're left with is cheap shock value disguised as a twist, which is even worse with the "Its a video game/fictional" twist because people already know that's the case, and you just have the game acting like it's smart for telling something everyone knows already. Its even worse as a pseudo twist like this prevents Actual mysteries in the game from being solved in its place. What are the monokubs? What's up with the gofer project? Things like that just get neglected for what is essentially an overly serious 4th wall gag. There's a reason 4th wall breaks are usually comedic. We know a piece of fiction is fiction, so it's funny when characters break their reality to get on our level. When it's plaited straight with nothing to subvert it (such as the ability to kill people in undertale and Monika's ability to see your 'real name' in DDLC), it just comes off as pretentious. Another reason I still kinda hate this ending is because at that moment, Maki, Shuichi, and Himiko stopped being characters in their own right and started being mouthpieces for the writers to vent out their message (which, to an extent, I agree with, but I don't like the way they handled it) And whole the ending was just supposed to talk about fans that wanted nonstop Danganronpa when the creator wants to end it (and has every right to do so), the ending really felt like they were saying it was morally wrong to merely enjoy danganronpa as you are watching people get killed, which is bad. (Im not sure that is what the writers intended, but it really came off that that on first impression) However, that doesn't work for multiple reasons (you aren't doing the killing, you aren't really in control of the protagonist's actions, people watch Danganronpa for characters and they are expected to be SCARED when someone dies) but most of all, if it's morally wrong to merely watch these characters kill eachother, then the writers must be even worse people for making the characters and writing them to kill eachother in the first place. (obviously not saying that is actually the case.) I feel like a lot of this has to do with poor execution. The fans didn't feel demanding enough; they felt quite reasonable and just expressed how much they liked the killing games (plus they used semi realistic photos for the outside world, really making it feel like the game was directly talking to it's fans rather than a metaphor for them) and while the creator wanted to the player to side with shuichi in ending danganronpa, i felt like I was on kiibo's side, being attacked by shuichi for ever enjoying the series in the first place. while the ending was supposed to make you feel semi triumphant, yet bittersweet that a thing you loved is coming to an end, I personally felt like the game was purposefully trying to have the worst ending possible so that it can suck all the joy you had with the series in that you'd never wanna see it again because they've ruined it too much. (I don't feel that way anymore, and that was DEFINITELY not the writers intention, but still... it feels grimy) That being said, as time goes on, I start to appreciate bits of it more. I like how it's deliberately ambiguous, adding to the theme of Truth and lies, and I can more clearly see the actual message being presebted: it's not that it's bad to enjoy DR, but it IS bad to pressure a creator into making more then they have the right to move on and do other things. (And personally, I know how that feels) Again, apologies if I was too rude or harsh.i have no ill will against any of the creative team, and I still love V3 for what it is.
100%, I agree with everything you said. One of the main reasons it's ending failed is because it's foundation is built upon sticks. It's a "you have to like it to believe it and you have to believe it to like it" thing because one of it's core messages is "Fiction can change the world!" except if you didn't like the ending already, and it's weak arguments are still not convincing you, it's actively proving that NO, fiction CANNOT change the world, because it can't even change the player's opinion of the ending. (That's not exactly the case for everyone, I know, but that's how it's set up). The faux twist is definitely a real thing too. We already all know it doesn't matter. And in the end, it not mattering doesn't matter because the only thing that matters is if we, the players, care about the characters and the story it's telling. I didn't waste 150 hours of my life 99%-ing Detroit Become Human because I thought I was going to get something out of it. In the end, me doing that didn't matter, it was a waste of time, it didn't lead to money or nourishment or anything. But it was worth it because it was fun. And I cared about the characters and the story, and I wanted to experience everything the game had to offer. So when DRV3 (deliberately or not) dunks on the player, makes them feel like a-holes for enjoying a game that was meant to be enjoyed, showing that nothing throughout any of the games had any importance or mattered, that all of the characters and the interactions between them were nothing more than constructions by some blue-headed dumbo, making the player realize that they'd probably just wasted what could easily be hundreds of hours on these games and that they probably wasted 30-50 bucks, the problem isn't that "it didn't matter" (though it still is, for story/writing reasons), it's that the writers shot my interest in the series/the story in the face, demonized me for liking the games in the first place (even if that's not what they meant, it's how it comes across. I'm going to call an apple an apple), and effectively killed any enjoyment/care I had for the characters. Heck, even kinda the games as a whole. Obviously now that some time is between us, it's faded and I still do really enjoy the games, even V3 (just not that ending), but I haven't gone back to do any of the school time of V3, even though getting them all was like a ritualistic thing I did after the first two games because yeah, subconciously, my give-a-sh*t-ometer is still broken. They're all not real, so why does it matter? And this is coming from somebody who spent about 6 and 1/4 days in DBH getting a bunch of random useless nodes to unlock and getting numbers to get bigger because I hate myself and don't value my own time that much. And I hate when defenders are like "But thats the point!" Is it? Is it really? Was the point really to make me hate the game and it's ending that much? So much so that I won't bother going back and playing more even though I definitely would have otherwise? Is it the point to make me rethink buying another Danganronpa game if it does come out? Was it the point to make me hate the game so much that I effectively did not care about any of the characters (except Kiibo. Kiibo best boi) so much that they could've all died and I wouldn't have batted an eye? So much so that I was tempted to turn off the game mid trial and just forget about the whole hot mess? If so... wow. Then, congrats, they did it. The only thing I have to wonder is, why? Why should that ever be the point? What is there to gain? They did all this, but for what ends? And then it's like "well no, the insulting the audience wasn't meant to be the point", but I thought the point was that was the point! So which one is it? Am I supposed to feel the most despair-y despair or am I not supposed to be upset at all and not be a big baby? And even if it was neither of those things, and the point was to listen to their lecture about the effect of fiction on real life, again, it's _why?_ This couldn't have been implemented any other way? You couldn't have done it without shattering players' enjoyment of the game? Why are you even trying to throw away the ending/franchise to lecture us on this? And yes, games/art/media tell stories and teach morals and stuff, but they shouldn't get in the way or disrupt the actual story of the game. Then it feels all preachy and like sending the message was more important than telling a good story. Don't even get me started on the whole Tsmugi "Lies vs. Truth" debate. It's dumb. The "oh she could've just been lying all along" is just a cop out. Plus, if it's true it makes Tsmugi and the entire conflict and all this contraversy both a) pathetic and b) pointless. Pathetic because in all the other danganronpa games, the masterminds never had to lie to make the heros feel despair. Not a single one. They presented them with cold hard truths, and the heros had to either fight their way through it or take their own path. Junko V.1 had turned her friends against each other, turned what was supposed to be a sanctuary into a trap, and had them kill each other to get out into the apocalypse. Junko V.2 hijacked Future Foundation's efforts to correct the Remnents of Despair, again turned them against each other, planned to take over the dead ones' bodies and make basically a bunch of evil zombie Junko clones and send the world back into the pits of despair, and if they refused, they'd either be stuck in the game for the rest of their lives + the OGs or reverted back into the psychos they were. The four little midget kids brainwashed every kid in a city and got them to brutally murder their parents and loved ones (seriously, some of those notes....) while simultaneously kidnapping the relatives of the OG cast for basically another motive. And Tsmugi.... lied. That's it. Sure, she made them kill each other, but c'mon. That's hardly novel at this point. That's so.. lame. And pathetic. Monika didn't have to lie that you were in her control and you were trapped with her forever. She was an actual threat. Wheatley and GLaDOs didn't have to lie that they wanted to kill you and were basically gods of that world that could swat you like an insignificant flea. They were actual threats. Junko was a literal threat. Tsumgi is... nothing, if we assume she's lying. And for b), think about if she was actually lying this whole time. We start up DR4 and its like "oh yeah all that stuff before was fake sorry" and it's like... oh ok, so you wasted my time and none of that mattered. So either way, you're stuck with the fact that none of it mattered. How is that supposed to be any comfort? And if it wasn't all orchastrated by the outside world, then who did? Who is Tsmugi really then? How does V3 have any connection to the 1st or 2nd game? If you take everything Tsmugi said as being a lie, you're left with basically, "I dunno". They don't give you anything to even lead into the possibility that it could've been a lie, making this either the biggest cop out ever or just terrible writing if it was actually supposed to be a legit 'maybe'. The only thing I could think of is maybe the dumb midget kids, but if that was taking place between 1 and 2, they were defeated at the end, so how'd they do it? I just can't see any reason the "maybe it was a lie" thing could possibly be feasible in universe or any sort of solid comfort out of universe. I have a lot more I could say, but I'll end it off 'cuz this is already a lot. I think no matter what, no matter what the creators' intentions were, no matter if Tsmugi was telling the truth or not, no matter how you spin it, the writing was weak. The execution was bad. It had a good message and nuggets of gold in there, but it didn't mesh well with the universe and kinda shot players' enjoyment in the face for no reason. It was a mansion made out of glass. And surprise, surprise, when you look closer, there's cracks.
Ehh, I thought the execution was very good. Also, I very much disagree that 4th wall breaks only work with comedic intent. Some of my favorite games have had very meaningful 4th wall breaks.
I loved chapter 3 so much, because it meant I wouldn't be hearing "degenerate male" and "Alua has spoken" anymore. Two characters I hated the most killed in one shot, brought me to tears.
Angie was done dirty in the English dub because originally in Japanese she called her god just god nothing else but god but when it was localised they changed it to Atua
My unpopular opinion is that Tsumugi ain't that bad. She's alright as a mastermind. There's something very creepy about her feeling like... a person, surrounded by all these wacky characters. And I think part of why she's so disliked is because she doesn't only hurt the characters. She hurts you, very deeply. I understand why one might hate her. But at the same time... most people aren't like kokichi, or ryoma, or maki. The player most likely resembles her a lot, and I guess Danganronpa fans dislike looking at themselves in a mirror. I can sympathize with her, I can understand where she's coming from. I wish more people realized that it's easy to use fiction as escapism instead of as a tool to understand our reality. It's easier to engage in media until it consumes you than facing your problems. Tsumugi stings so much because she's so real.
I actually really enjoyed tsumugi as an antagonist in danganronpa v3, the concept of the ultimate cosplayer being representative of the fanbase is much more interesting when you choose to think of what tsumugi represents in the story rather than how shes actually executed in the story.
To be honest, i agree with everything you talked about V3 in here. There's some things i don't particularly understand in this game, and there's things in this game that i don't like as well (Just like everyone have their opinions). I know there's some people who don't care if the protag is male or female, but sometimes (In my opinion) You have to change certain things in your script. For example, why all the major games have male protags only? (Excluding UDG of course) I just don't get why in every 3 main games we've got, we have to see in a male perspective and not the opposite? What would be the major problem with a female lead? Would it not be so much compelling as the male one? Im not that Kaede fan who adores and godships her and hates and talks trash about Shuichi, of course not. I do understand Shuichi's development and i do agree he's a character with very compelling development and all, but, why we dind't switched to another character instead of him? We had so many interesting characters with so much to give! Like Maki for example. She is a good character and had her own development in the game, and it would be a good choice since she have her own plot twist as well. It would be so much fun to see her POV and seeing maybe Shuichi as the antag or another classmate, and see the story going in another direction *maybe*. I just don't see why the main character have to be the most basic one as well in the series, with so many interesting characters circling them. Why we can't have a character who have a strong personality, a REAL talent and we see their struggles as the game passes?(I know Detective is a talent and a job, but i mean like, instruments, games etc..) That's what i think it would happen if Kaede survived past chapter 1. To see her struggles as she slowly became more realistic instead of positive. I think that would be a great plot as well. But they just had to kill the main character all of a sudden, which left her with just the nice girl persona without a more deep backstory. Another thing i don't like about V3's ending, is how the outside world is portrayed. It makes me think that our characters live in a world who is filled with PSYCHOS. There's not a SINGLE person who don't like Danganronpa. It's like their only purpose to live, is to see other people dying on a screen and see the others, debating constantly to find the one who did it, and then AGAIN kill them. I know that the game explains to us that....this is what they actually live for in a way. Since they're lives (The outside world people) are meaningless, so they watch Danganronpa to entertain themselves. But that is not an excuse to think that not a single person, disliked all that killing and blood and despair on screen. I know Spike Chunsoft dind't said that we (Fans) are like that, but they dind't portrayed us like good people who likes to see these games ONLY. They made the fans of this world go insane and make pratically a reality show were TEENAGERS kill each other and no one cares about them at ALL, not even their FAMILIES. Is like Danganronpa is a god and everyone in the outside world is an entire cult dedicated to workship and feed they're god or something like that. I know this reasoning sounds a litlle weird and doesn't make some sense but........ that's what i think it went wrong. Doesn't necessaraly mean the writers made the game like that. And the fact that these fans, after Shuichi's debate, suddenly started to stop watching and being fans of this show are even more weird and again doesn't make sense. Imagine that the fan number 1 of Danganronpa, who watched all of the seasons just stopped watching the show they love so much, because one of the participants said that it would not stay for Despair or Hope. What..? Are you going to tell me in all the other 52 seasons they had, not a single participant made that? Seriously? And again, i know Team Danganronpa wanted to imitate the original games, by always following the scripit of them, but did Team Danganronpa dind't knew about other topics beyond Hope vs Despair? The whole thing in V3 is Truth vs Lies, are you saying they only inovated in the 53 season?Oh lord. Oh! And there's even more. Why did the other participants from the other seasons who survived and got out from their game like Rantaro just.........dind't do nothing to stop the new seasons from the outside? They were in vacation or something? Don't tell me the excuse is that they lost their memories or something like that. Rantaro entered in the 53 season to stop it and we can see clearly that his Pre-game self remembered the gruesome game they (the teenagers) would pass, and he survived the last season. Another thing to ask, did the survivors from every other game needed to stop the season In-game every time? Team Danganronpa is a secret organization too? Oh god....i think i will stop from here lol. Also, Tsumugi being the mastermind................................just hits different. I don't understand why she was the mastermind all of a sudden. If you played the entire game and decides to play it again, you can actually see some dialogues which confirms she was the mastermind all along, we just dind't payed attention at first. But to be honest, i don't think her personality matches too well with being a mastermind, (with all respect to her fans) I just dind't like her plot for being the mastermind. I think it would make even more sense that it was someone from the Outside world that is more obsessive over Danganronpa than her. I think it would be more interesting, and compelling than *everything is fiction*. Now, i know every game have their own mistakes, they're own major problems, but a game must be made with care and love no? Sometimes it looks like a hit on the face from the creator, saying that he's done with Danganronpa, and made the fans like psychos who just want more and more games and that's it.(Even if i know Spike Chunsoft confirmed we might have new games in the future ,but anyway) I loved the cast, loved the music as well, the desings, how beutiful the game in general is, but, that's one of the main problems i find with V3. Doesn't mean i hate the game, im just stating my opinion. Don't need to agree if you don't want to.
This plot twist and outside world in Danganronpa universe seems like a parody that relies on shock value and pulling one over the audience, if anything. I'm not against meta commentary that Danganronpa V3 tries to pull, because it actually has some interesting topics to discuss, such as how the fiction affects the reality, the problems which comes with serialization of franchises, or maybe the line between liking a thing and being obsessed over it. However, it was all overshadowed by the outside world, portrayed as one-dimensional, hive minded obsessed bunch of maniacs, with no consideration for the main cast, because "they're not real" or "it's all fiction", and the fact that Shuichi was able to win them over made me hate the plot twist even more. Maybe it's just me, maybe there is more to it. Don't take anything I wrote as a gospel.
Very well put together! I too have my own variety of opinions on this game that are pretty complicated, but you articulated yours very well and explained very eloquently how this game has a lot of contentious areas that make for a complex fandom debate.
It's funny seeing you post this video about a week after I finished v3. I played through the entire series from December to the end of January and quickly fell in love with it, but man v3's ending specifically was such a punch in the gut.
I think one of the reasons I love DRV3 is because it made me feel so many emotions while playing it that no other game made me feel. To the executions, the ending, and the friend events.
This was a great video! I really love how in depth and elaborate you went with your explanations and why certain elements of V3 worked and didn't work. While I personally didn't mind the big twist of Danganronpa being fictional, what bothered me most was the epilogue. Saihara supposedly declared that giving up would refute both hope and despair to ensure that the audience would give up on Danganronpa. This is further emphasized by Keebo destroying the school. But by showing Saihara, Maki and Himiko come out alive and monologue about their desire to see the outside world, that plays into the Hope ending the characters tried desperately to avoid. It's hypocritical and it makes their intentions meaningless if they're just continuing the trends their predecessors gave the audiences. Instead of showing the three survivors, why not have interviews or clips of the audience reflecting on the ending. Have them talk about whether Saihara's words meant something and if they want to give up on Danganronpa? Maybe some of them are throwing a fit and still want more Danganronpa? Having that discussion would really reflect the outside state of the world and how much Danganronpa meant to them. That's how I see it at least. What do you think?
Yeah, I liked this game as well and, when it comes to fandom entitlement, I agree that sometimes, people go too far. I mean, how many people do you know that pin so much of their identity on a show, a sports team or a game? How many people rely on the works of others to make sure they have work themselves? It is a bold statement to say "put us on the shelf for an hour and go outside" in such a direct way. Especially since a lot of franchises love to backpedal and treat their audiences with kid gloves. Of course we have cases where people say "Be grateful" even if a product doesn't work, especially when it comes to video games but that might be a conversation for another day. I do agree with the whole Tsumugi being the Mastermind thing. If we had more time with her being stressed out, complaining that people were acting out of character or being actively detached from situations because she knows she'll live. Frankly, as these games usually are multi-person projects, killing one writer off and having another would have been interesting and looked more on the corporate nature of the villain. But I agree with that line and its why I'm not a big Kokichi fan. His whole attitude towards lying, his joker-esque agent of chaos situation, how he's supposed to be a decent manipulator and how nothing is revealed about him until the last chapter after his death... it just doesn't sit well with me. It feels so well executed that it feels more like damage control. I mean, most good twists don't usually put "It was planned from the start" as a defense, do they?
An idea I have to technically keep both Shuichi and Kaede is to let the player choose their protag. If they choose Shuichi he dies and Kaede takes their place and vice versa. And if ppl are more ambitious both can have different story lines/development.
The ending sucks for me because it just can’t work no matter how you look at it. If you take Tsumugi’s words completely at face value, there’s too many little details that don’t add up; too many things that just can’t be explained with that narrative. But there’s also too much evidence that she’s telling the truth to just ignore. That’s one of the main reasons I find the ending very unsatisfying. I’d like to just dismiss it and enjoy the rest of the game in spite of it, but I can’t. Yet even when I try to accept it, I can’t do that either. And from a personal stand point, there’s nothing I hate more than meta endings in fiction.
For me, v3 works best when it’s its own story. Or the Alternate reality where people liked Danganronpa so much people went insane and started killing games in real life. (Even thought it doesn’t make too much sense to me. Like hello? Human rights officials?) The more is strays away from the source the more interesting it could be. The ending confused me for a bit and I can’t like or dislike it. It just kind of exists. I mainly can’t get the meaning so that’s mainly a me problem. It’s ok. I’m just not a fan This is a nice video
I really disagree with your conclusion on what the ending of V3 was about because it feels so, for lack of a better term, literal? The game tells you, to your face, that you aren't supposed to take this story from the diegetic angle. It's practically on its knees begging you to not to do that to such an extent the whole ending is *about* how little sense the game is going to make if you do that. And so often discussions of it end up on points like "wow it's a downer that that Shuici doesn't have anywhere to go after this" or "But what Tsumugi says could be a lie because of the inconsistencies!". And it's just... is that all you took away from that 4 hour lecture on the nature of Fiction?? If you are talking about the ending of V3, and you discussion is not about how well the interaction between Shuichi and The Audience works as a metaphor for the way that stories have an inherent power to cause an audience to reflect and grow on their actions. And you're not discussing about how effective the theme of "people focus on the words too much and not the message" was worked into the main text or if it was crammed all in the final part. Then I'm like, that's not really discussing V3 then, that's theorycrafting. Kiibo is literally named after the japanese word for Hope (Kibō) because the game wants you to see the writers dismantling this arcword that everyone because so fixated on that they missed out on the actual messages of the story. And ironically, the main issue with that reading is demonstrably they didn't do a good enough job of doing that. The goal was to dismantle the universe so thoroughly that the audience would be willing to ask "what does this mean, on a bigger level then? since the literal level is now nonsense" and instead people just double-downed on "but what tsumugi said they said was different than what they said when we played".
Believe it or not, there are a lot of overarching themes within this game that I had considered in earlier drafts of the script. Including fiction's impact on reality, the relationship between logic and emotion, fandom culture as a whole, etc. to name a few! But because I wanted to specifically discuss people's reception of DRV3 as a Danganronpa game in it of itself (hence the title), I thought it was thematically appropriate to make that my central focus of my conclusion. You're more than welcome to disagree with me on that decision, but it's one that I felt ultimately was the best given the thesis of my video! :)
Ok,but V3 is trash. And the fact that it's fiction doesn't fucking excuse the blatant inconsistencies and contradicting it's own logic within said fiction. Just because something is fiction doesn't mean that it should be ridiculous just to be ridiculous
@@exa_eille I did,and no offense but you're making excuses for bad writing. If the whole game was shown to be a gag after the ending or something like that,it'd make sense,but the ending was still serious and the same as d2 and d2s endings,and we literally see the people in the "real world" commenting on the game taking place,and there's no reason to believe tsumugi wasn't telling the truth.
V3 was honestly a crazy ride and I honestly enjoyed it. The ending was a huge hit or miss between me and my friends but that's what I enjoy about endings like this. I thought Tsumugi in my opinion was a weak character but she had a ton of potential. It's kinda easy to figure out that the mastermind was her since she really didn't interact or do much throughout the game.
What you said about the implication about how the creators see us is mostly what made it really hard to like it at first. For me, it was more that I didn't like the implication that we were as bad as a world who would enjoy real people being killed. I've moved away from that line of thought since, but it was a very real cause of indignation for me.
Personally my biggest missgiving with v3 was that ending was the final case and ending. It just felt like all those years of good storytelling and characters didn't amount to anything. In a way it felt like the dev team gave up and told us to go fuck ourselves for getting invested.
I tried liking V3... Ironically it took me 2 months too because I was struggling to get through it. And the hardest part was that the FTEs I did either told me nothing about the character in the end or ended in what i think was SA. Actually made me go back to THH despite it not being my favorite
I only think the Monokubs are funny BECAUSE they’re the one clever piece of commentary this game has about seasonal rot BEFORE just trying to act like it had a message right at the end. They’re literally 5 scrappy doos and they suck so much. Their CONCEPT is what’s funny to me, not their writing
I hated the ending because it feels like all the characters we’ve come to love and their relationships weren’t genuine and their arks aren’t real… absolutely breaks my heart and it ruined the whole series for me., honestly… It’s like they threw away the 2 storylines from the last two games.
Um... the ending literally said that they weren’t meaningless. I mean, come on. We knew from the start that everyone is just a fictional character. But their stories still make us feel something. And that makes them meaningful.
@@Kayta-Linda Nah, their game personalities were artificial, they in reality were assholes, that just made them worse. Plus, their backstories were fake and meaningless
@@Kayta-Linda standing here I realized you were just like me trying to make history who's to judge the right from wrong when our guard is down I think we both agree that violence creates violence but in the end it has to be this way
I always hated the ending. It felt like the weight of the previous two games was gone, like they meant nothing because they were fictional within the universe. The characters I loved didn't even truly exist in their own world. It felt hollow. Like it didn't matter. Idk it's hard to put into words.
I actually love the class of V3 more than any other game because they gave me the most genuine feeling of friendship. Students in the games always say they view each other as friends, but for me V3 was the only game where I truly felt like they cared about each other and weren't just tolerating each other's presence. Towards the end of the game, especially with Himiko's breakdown and everyone being so concerned for Kaito's health...man I just really felt all of that.
To be honest, the reason I personally dislike NDRV3’s ending is that it’s easy for many kinds of meta twists, including this, to just… feel kind of tedious and condescending to me, especially when they come across as really playing it up to the audience/player. Like, it’s not even that I feel attacked or personally criticized, though it probably helps there that I try to keep my fandom experiences chill and close to my own space, plus I’d only gotten into the series within the previous year of V3’s release, but I do feel… “yes, I know, this is all entirely fictional and I have a life outside of this. You’re not shattering my world by telling me this and spending this much time on it. All I hear is Georg Rockall-Schmidt saying ‘The twist is, it’s a game! …Like they said!’” I *do* like the existential aspect of it and where the meta prompts questions more generally about storytelling and what does and doesn’t feel acceptable when we try to connect with it! E.x. It does feel weird knowing that Tsumugi had enough control over everything to even orchestrate someone falling in love! Then again, in any story anyway, everything happens either because a writer *made* it happen or *let* it happen - not always consciously, and some writers are very lax about following an “I’ll just let my characters do what seems to make most sense for them as I get to know them!” approach, but still. At what point does being aware of that stop allowing a character or their experiences to *feel* real to us? But… I can enjoy those things better taken out and expanded on in fanwork and the like. The whole first thing just… feels like too much of an eye-roller for it not to distract me from being able to enjoy the other elements of the ending in context.
i think the monokubs were originally supposed to be a celebrity guest thing in japanese, but then the localization ran out of budget to keep that idea up in japanese, all 5 monokubs are voiced by koichi yamadera. which is kind of a big deal, he voices donald duck, wreck it ralph, mushu the dragon, sebastian the crab, megamind, donkey from shrek, and the GENIE FROM ALADDIN (as well as MANY others), and had been working as a voice actor professionally for 31 years at that point. all that to say he definitely wouldn't have been cheap to get into the studio. he doesn't voice any other character in the series, and the same can be said for the rest of the japanese cast (except kaedes VA who was junko and mius VA who is chihiro both in the stage play). spike chunsoft had the funds to bring on new VAs as well as get the old ones for tsumugis reveal, which would've been more expensive then to have all of the newbies be voiced by other danganronpa characters. which is exactly what the localization did! im assuming to save funds, they brought back as many people as they could for a double casting, monokubs included. so the comedy of all 5 characters being voiced by a dude in his 50's is completely lost in the localization, which is sad in my opinion, as thats the only thing funny about them, and the idea of an a list celebrity voicing the mascot characters adds to how popular this "fictional property" is to the public.
I'd say it'd be interesting if you could control either Kaede or Shuichi, depending on if you lied during first trial or not, but of course, we need stupid monopoly card game (talent development plan) more than actual diversity in plot of this game. One of things I don't like about V3 (other than reasons, that are stated in video) is lack of atmosphere. I loved DR1's claustrophobic atmosphere so much, in DR2 you have warm peaceful island contrasting with кilling game, but V3 has both and neither of it. Another thing I hate is Chapter 3. They gave a very interesting rule - only the 1st killеr gets to leave, meaning they could've kept an actual killer, Korekiyo, in the cast, have him interact with others, especially Himiko, knowing that he's a confirmed кiller even without weird inсеst subplot
I feel like the monokubs are an interesting *concept* and I like their use in chapter 6’s trial. But they never reach their full potential. Probably the biggest example of this is Monodam. In chapter 3 he had this whole plot of taking over monokuma’s position. This could have been really interesting if it wasn’t thrown away as soon as the investigation started.
The characters being outlandish actually makes sense inlore. This is the 53rd season of what appears to be a VERY formulaic show, and it's essentially a reality show. I imagine the show just got crazier as time went on
You know an ending is bad when i just have to pretend the ending doesn't exist for me to take anything in this series seriously whether its in V3 or outside of V3 honestly. Worst ending ever created in fiction without a doubt (in my opinion)
Honestly another problem the ending caused, at least when it first released and was starting to be finished, was the fact that the cosplay girl making herself look like characters from the original two games and saying it was all fake, made it seem like the original two weren't real either. Nothing those characters did mattered either. That's the original impression I got, and it wasn't something I was fond of. With that said, I don't remember what the main character says during the final mini game about how fictional characters still matter and that there's still value in them. It's possible the idea was the dev team set up an idea that the "villains" were trying to say these fake characters don't matter or mean anything and you don't feel anything, but the main character standing on a soap box possibly saying they do matter and you can feel something from those characters, if I'm remembering the ending correctly I might not be, then it could be possible what the dev team was originally trying to say and what the audience took from that ending were two different things. Your points are still valid though as well, I think when I originally finished it I was just stuck in this head space of everything in the series not being "true" that those other issues never came into my head at all. The game isn't as horrible as some try to make it out to be, and aside from the cubs, the ending is the only thing that still bothers me about the game. There are aspects that I do still like about everything before though. Like many others, it's a hard mixed bag of emotions I guess.
Something I always interpreted whenever I'd go back to V3, even when I first completed the game myself, was that the V3 universe was set in a different universe from the other DR titles. The Hope's Peak arc actually happened in that universe, while in V3's universe the franchise was just a fictional series. V3's ending leaves so many questions that it's probably the game with the most amount of fan works trying to fill in the gaps. Did those who died actually die for real, or was virtual reality in play like in Danganronpa 2? What would the survivors even be stepping into once they step outside the bounds of the academy? Where do the other survivors of the previous seasons go after they survive the game if they are meant to just live as fictional characters? Was Tsumugi in the previous killing game with Rantaro? Was she only made the mastermind thanks to the flashback light? How much of the "Prologue" and the audition tapes/reaction to being put in the game actually true? Personally V3 was one of my favorite Danganronpa games *because* there's so much left unanswered. And even if it doesn't get solved or revealed one day, I don't mind being left on this cliffhanger. Each game left on a cliffhanger. DR1 it was a question of what the outside world was like. DR2 it was if the students would all wake up or not. UDG has some unanswered questions as well. And, despite it being rushed, the anime brought a conclusion to this story and answered the lingering questions each game brought. V3 can either be the beginning of a new arc in this franchise (unless new entries will just be self contained universes each time) or be left as it is, with fan content being what people use to explore their own interpretation of the ending. Do you believe the game was entirely VR and want to see what the characters deal with following the ending of the game? There's plenty of art and fics you can indulge in. Did you think it all was like Tsumugi said and want to follow Maki, Shuichi, and Himiko's lives after the trauma they endured? Plenty of that as well. Maybe you believe the V3 cast *do* exist within the universe of the Hope and Despair era of Danganronpa? There's works with that idea too. Whatever is in store for the future of the Danganronpa franchise will be a mixed bag of opinions without a doubt. But I look forward to seeing just what kind of creative directions it could go
I clearly remember this moment when everything was revealed. I was sitting in front of my pc in the dark summer night as I did with every other part. I remember the moment Dr v3 op music started playing as Tsumugi was telling me that everything was a lie. I was overwhelmed by the emotions. I was sad, amazed, confused and surprised at the same time. But most importantly I felt this despair. I felt it before while playing other parts including drae and even the dr3 anime but that despair didn’t last as long. I think the dr v3’s ending was amazing in it’s own way. I did cry that night and I still do if I rewatch or carefully remember it. I’m satisfying with the ending. It’s the most memorisable one in the whole series. I just hope TooKyoGames will keep it up. I want to think that Rain code will be as amazing
I liked the meta commentary that the ending portrays, but that ending alone completely eliminates everything that we experience from the first videogame to the last one… It not only negates V3, but it says that everything we have seen is not real... just scripted.
