Why Do Smash Players Still Play On HUGE Old TVs? 

Wait the little people aren’t really in the tv :(

The polling rate fix is such a nice inclusion. Lots of people never give slippi a chance because without it it feels so bad

5:10 for further context, it wasn't necessarily JUST the switch to monitors that upset the community, but it was also the timing of said announcement (literally a few days before the tournament starts, giving pros little to no time to adjust)

6:49 Funny story: I bought an Xbox 360 S when I was in middle school, and when I was hooking it up with my dad, I read that it should be connected to the TV with an HDMI cable. Since it didn't come with one, I asked where I could get one. "You don't need that!", my dad said. "Here, just use these aux cables, and unplug the PS2." Since I didn't know any better, I played my HD console at 480p for two years, unable to read Halo subtitles and Skyrim inventory labels without getting up close to the TV. Finally, I went to an all-night video game marathon at a friends' house in high school. I went to plug in my Xbox to a TV, and was puzzled to find no aux ports. "How can I plug my cables into here?", I asked. There was a moment of quiet confusion in the room, as a half-dozen of my friends struggled to understand what I was asking. "Uh...Jet, these TVs only take HDMI. Why did you bring aux cords? You didn't bring a Wii!" One guy took pity on me, and lent me an HDMI cable. When I plugged it in, and saw how crisp and clear everything was, it blew my brain. I imagine it's a smaller-scale version of what it's like when someone gets glasses for the first time, or has cataracts removed. Suddenly, there was detail! Text was legible! Shapes weren't (quite as) blurry! The moral of the story is, my dad isn't nearly as tech savvy as he pretends to be.

One thing to note is tournaments running on monitor aren't always using emultation. Most run on console, usually using component with Sync On Green or an hdmi adapter with a Wii or GameCube.

Playing on a CRT is something you really gotta have done to know what it's like, my melee local used to have those and it felt so much more different than playing slippi at home but in a good way.

Emulated doesn't need to mean pirated. People running those turnaments are defenitely tech savvy enough to rip a couple of gamecube discs that they legitimally own.

knowing melee players i wouldnt be surprised if they started making their own CRTs

I don't think the solution is as simple as "there are flatscreens that are as good as crts". TOs can't be expected to provide top level monitors for every setup at a tournament. At most ultimate locals, the quality of tv per setup varies widely based on what people bring with them and most of them aren't great. Until CRT level lag monitors become easily accessible at affordable prices, CRTs are still the best option in tournament.

Is there any reason why CRT TVs are no longer made even by independent companies? Are they truly that hard to make? I know for example that no country in the world is able to make a decent smartphone on its own, so I don't know about TVs.

My parents have a 1990 panasonic boulder that had one of the biggest screens on the market and has every pre-hdmi outlet you can think of. Ever since we cut cable, it's now used for classic consoles with its somehow still great picture quality and I will try my hardest to find a proper space for it eventually.

This would've been a great opportunity to talk about 60hz strobing. It's because of strobing that CRTs are able to have zero motion blur. 120hz LCD has the right response/input lag but you will have a double image with a 60hz game. Perfect-ish 1 to 1 setup compared to CRT would be 60hz strobing LCD with roughly 8ms total input lag (top of CRT has basically zero lag while bottom has 16ms because of the time it takes to draw the image).

That montage was so impressive!

STAYED FOR THE MONTAGE👍

Hey! The widescreen melee setting you showed is actually not a great way to do it, it has buggy effects such as the added widescreen areas not having correct sfx. David Kimball has a video on widescreen melee with the proper settings that I would recommend!

just wanted to say that the bit at 6:47 made me realize I also wasn't on 144 hertz on my monitor so thanks for the heads up about that lmao

Great video as always! Something I've noticed is that tourneys very rarely use PC melee with monitors but converters on wiis instead. For whatever reason it seems that this makes a big difference, or at least tournaments I've been to have had monitor + wii setups that have felt very different from one to the next and not all of them feel great

Funny how it took so many years until OLED to finally catch up or surpass CRT technology. It was a rough few decades, but we made it!

love the melee content

I've been playing Melee competitively for nearly a decade, and yes, I do play on a giant CRT.

Do Melee players know the game can be played in HDTVs at 480p using the component cable of the Game Cube or Wii? That option has been available since 2001 (well, 2006 in the case of the Wii) and the game plays without frame skipping, nor imput lag from the monitor. I play Melee competitively and use both CRTs and HDTVs regularly and haven't noticed any problem with the component cable in all these years.

6:34 is just legendary

The information in this video is really good and helpful but not distinguishing Wii + HDMI adapter vs emulator when talking about "monitor melee" is a huge oversight. Really wish that was dealt with properly because there are already so many people who are familiar with or part of the melee community that don't know this. Oh well.

My school donated a crt to me as they weren’t using them anymore, so I recommend you do this if possible

Thanks for the BlippiGG shout out!

Can we get some manufacrurer to make CRTs again?

CRT are still so fun to play with

This was interesting. I never understood why tournaments always used CRTs instead of newer televisions, and why Melee players preferred them.

I miss lugging crts around campus. Everyone else always looked so puzzled. Slippy did kill our local scene. Before someone comes and says, "build it and they will come," most of us now work full time and have families.

Thank you for using my RU-vid video as a reference to what you are discussing in this video. I appreciate that you were working on this video for so long and I am glad it came out the way it did. Thank you.

What would stop enthusiasts from paying to get new CRT's manufactured? I don't think they'll truly die, but could become like vinyl where only hipsters and SSBM pros use them.

loving the LOVE for Melee you guys have

Lots of incorrect oversimplifications here. Even oleds do not have response rates as fast as CRTs. No flat panel has 1ms full pixel transition time, it's all marketing: the true number is much more. Motion blur is still going to be a huge issue for any sample and hold display. Running a 60hz game at higher refresh rates results in reduced motion clarity. BFI can help but it has drawbacks. Running at a non-multiple of 60 (like 144) results in uneven frame pacing.

I work at a recycling plant. To me, it seems like we'll never run out of CRT tvs

4:33 What? I am genuinely confused. Dolphin enhances Melee greatly in many ways, but it doesn't do sh*t about the response time of your monitor and/or TV. So how is it "an alternative to a crt"? As stated later in the video, there are great monitors and OLED TV's that cut down the refresh to near-crt-level, but THAT has nothing to do with Dolphin itself. I'm sure I'm just missing the point here, I'd love to be enlightened. EDIT: Ah nevermind, it's about the latency added by the connection from real hardware to such a new screen, isn't it?

Self Made montage music and saying plates you earned my sub and like

Imagine a world where Nintendo didnt fuck over the Melee community every time they try to compete on non stone-age hardware.

0:49 ...you good, mate?

I have a 144hz monitor (ASUS VG279Q) and followed all the steps in this video, but melee still feels significantly more responsive on real console + CRT to me. I really don't think it's placebo either, since I was really caught off guard by the difference after playing on CRT for the first time in a while. I have no idea why though. Another thing I've noticed is that frame times are really inconsistent on dolphin to the point where motion can feel noticeably jittery compared to CRT/console even while maintaining a perfect 60fps. Basically, I disagree that Slippi feels just as good. I just don't think we're there yet. Still feels great though and I'm super glad to have it. Wouldn't have gotten into melee at all if not for Fizzi's hard work :)

There are a handful of backpanels that truly get you the ~1ms response time. Most of the monitors that display it require you to go into the settings on the display and turn on the overclock.

7:53 100 Years!?! That is really optimistic.

2:20 you just said Plasmas had high input lag a few seconds ago 🤔

Only Supremacy worth fighting for CRT Supremacy for life I have a large CRT for my lounge room and I’m never going to switch to flat, too many retro consoles and the heart is there where it wouldn’t be on a flat Thanks for the vid guys c:

I am not a competive melee player but I do love gaming on a CRT a few years ago I bought a CRT off ebay and when It came It had sound Issues and the scart(main Input In the UK) had a bad connection so now I use It with an N64 via RF which doesn't look terrible, gamecube Is where Is suffers but even then the scart works enough that It can be played as long as It doesn't move I don't want to open It up because I don't know what I'm doing and that can be Incredibly dangerous but I also don't want to throw out a CRT to buy a new one because they are no longer being made

Didn’t even know about LTC monitors even tho I was there

Also there's a lag reduction mod for flat screen melee.

I think by the time the CRTs all break, high refresh rate and low response time OLEDs will be cheap and Melee will be in the public domain. We just have to wait till 2096. Guess I'll be like that grandpa in the video, cheering on my grandkids.

1:36 that was hard to watch

one day I hope the melee community will be ready for a 120fps hack on PC

Im so glad you used my clip!

Thanks for the vid

Dang it I JUST found a 32 inch Sony Trinitron too!

I got myself a collection of good CRTs (Bang Olufsen MX-series) when they were basically given away so I AM that "relative with the basement" (though mine are in the attic) as I foresaw them becoming more scarce. Also got a professional CRT-rejuvenator when I randomly happened upon one on a domestic VG-forum so probably set for my entire life with the ones I've got (pats self on shoulder). Wonder if, in the future, there will be smaller niche companies remaking CRT-televisions for gamers in mind though. Might be a viable corner of the market (?). Or maybe they need to be produced in such massive numbers that it won't be worth it even if they're easy to make? Edit: 4:50 Oh snap! That looks amazing. The emulation scene really IS the 8th wonder of the world (and while I love the games screw Nintendo for making it more difficult). Regarding the people who say it "feels better" on CRTs, even though I have them myself AND don't play Melee (I'm a shmup player), you're being extremely silly. As long as the big companies don't care about their old games, and they realistically CAN'T care about every niche little fringe community either, emulation is the obvious choice for the foreseeable future unless you have new companies starting to make CRTs popping up here and there. Learn to love it.

No Dolphin will not feel the same as Melee on a CRT. Software emulation will always have lag because the computer running it always has to focus on its own processes first then the emulation, also it has to juggle with the emulated console's processes unlike the original console that can do them at once because it has multiple chips to handle them as oppose to your computer's cpu handeling it all and finally unless Oled gets faster it's also slower than a CRT because CRT's uses a beam of light which is the fastest thing in the universe as oppose to crystals moving in modern displays

godlike thumbnail

Through emulation and modding, Melee can have LESS latency than vanilla on CRT.

We won’t ever lose crts. We just have so many, and we can still repair and produce more.

1: lower input lag 2: see above

Yeah you can make your PC at home feel like CRT but tournaments will never use PCs and emulation for every setup. Also, when converting output from a wii or GC to HDMI or DP, there will always be some added lag, on top of that, its not as simple as "choosing a monitor with a 1ms response time", as stated in the video LCD/LED monitors dont have a 1ms response time even if theyre advertised that they do. Currently the only OLED monitors on the market are 1440p, which is a bit unnecessary for melee and theyre expensive, a little less than $1000. When there's resonably priced 1080p oled monitors for sale that could be a good first step, but it wont be perfect for tournaments until theres either some excellent analog to hdmi converters (i know theres some that are like $500) or if something like the MISTer can emulate the GC hardware eventually and have native perfect hdmi out

Unless motion blur is resolved in modern displays, the Smash community will not want to move away from CRTs.

Still play game with CRT TV because only way play light gun game like Time crisis or any light game

Yo can you make shirts out of the thumbnail holyshit

Good vid :)

This wasn't a 40 in XBR, but yeah its 330lbs, I have one its a back killer

What about upscalers?

Came for the nerdy CRT content, stayed for the Goldberg Variations.

and another reason why CRT's are still highly sought after is people like me who still plays DDR (DanceDanceRevolution) with real hardware on a CRT because those are a nightmare to play on modern TVs

Nice transition editing hahahahaha!

random thought: id like to see a melee mod with ultimate style smears

what if i started up a new crt factory?

Why don't other competitive scenes try to run their games on CRTs then?

Its interesting how CRT tvs are more advanced in terms of input lag

Emulation does not equal piracy, that is a silly misonception that has held on for way too long. Piracy is illicit duplication of games, Emulation simply means running a game on hardware it wasnt originally intended for. Yes, the most common application for emulation is to play roms obtained from the seven seas of the internet, but dumping a rom of your own cartridge as a safety copy is perfectly legal, as is using that rom on an emulator. Saying that though, most competetive communities i can think of would prefer playing on original hardware with a video converter to modern screens for the sake of authenticity, and that isnt exactly difficult to set up either.

The eventuality of the crispest way to game going to eventually die damages my soul. And not too many care or even know about how these work or what the difference is

I just got a crt monitor to play slippi

I remember my mom telling me to throw away my heavy ass CRT. If I had known how valuable this is, she would have had me keep that mf for 20 more years so we could sell it and get rich off of it. Damn it.

8:51 aiden jumpscare

I mean, Plasma does look better than CRT, with an even more beautiful motion quality. I even prefer them to OLED in some ways. Still, input delay kills it for competitive gaming. And... they are long out of production as well.

I won't put it pass the melee community to become expert repairmen for CRTs

this video needed a crt destruction content warning/trigger warning :(

Remake the game, problem solved. 🤷‍♂️ The perfect opportunity to rebalance the game, remove the need for CRT's, and breathe new life into the scene. Just reskin the characters to something original to avoid copyright infringement and there ya go. But, of course, it's the whole "change" thing that would instantly piss off the group of people who are still playing a decades old game. 🙄

I’m a smash player and I can confirm that you can play on a huge new TV. I can see why one would want to use the CRT type.

“CRTs have surprisingly great color” yeah this guy has never seen the average CRT at a melee tournament

Nice magic

Just change the tubes in the crt

My suspicion is that they'll just start mass production of the tvs. Just because it's the melee community, probably NINTENDO's second most hated group besides pirates, the fact they still exist besides that shows they're dedication to the game.

Lets go melee!

"Get your free TVs"

Wait, couldnt you afford that little montage😭

2:13 Did u mean LCDs on the high end?>

crt supremacy.

If there’s enough demand someone will make new crt tvs.

As far as I can tell after trying to explain/demonstrate to all my friends... you don't really notice the input lag of LCD's/Plasma's unless you grew up playing games on a CRT TV. To me, the lag on anything other than a CRT is immediately noticeable and unacceptable... but if all you've ever gamed on are High definition TV's, you're just so used to it that you've adapted.

CRTs may be good on your side of the globe, but in Australia, New Zealand and Europe they're baaaaaaaaad and 50hz instead of 60. I'm so triggered that I played games at a lower frame rate as a kid because of where I lived.

As for 8/16/32 bits games, i just say, bring back the CRTs, nothing replaces how a game looks and feels on a CRT. See ya.

Because donkey Kong told them to

As a Melee player, I wholeheartedly believe the compeitive scene will reverse engineer and recreate CRTs in the next 100 years like we have with Phob Controllers and Goomwaves.

what're them OLEDS going for these days?

A wise person once said, "Playing Netplay is like touching yourself while watching porn. But playing on a CRT is like having that certain someone touching you."

Y'know, with how extremely prevalent gaming monitors for pcs are, why don't they make special gaming tv's?