Why do USA steam trains make smoke, but UK ones don't? 

I also feel like the fact that in the US, our engines chuck everything out the stack, UK engines don't, and that's why they clean their smokeboxes often.

I don't know. That's why I'm watching this video.

Having taken a few combustion courses in university, there is nothing more satisfying than seeing a steam locomotive produce almost no smoke even under load. Yes, watching huge amounts of black smoke looks dramatic, but it's a sign of inefficiency! Not to mention the huge amounts of particulate pollution: The British steam locomotives often ran in more urban environments, so I would imagine keeping smoke down was a priority, even in the era when people thought cigarettes were healthy.

Back when steam locomotives were in earning revenue mode, making heavy smoke was regarded by the Norfolk and Southern Railway as a potential disciplinary offence, as it wasted fuel and led to complaints from the public. In the era before tumble driers, washing was commonly dried on a line and being downwind of a smokey locomotive, could ruin the whole wash. In the UK with preserved locomotives, making smoke is regarded as wasteful and anti-social.

The wife’s grandfather was a conductor for grand trunk railroad back in the 1940s-50s. He always had a fit when he saw huge clouds of black smoke coming from the trains on TV shows and movies. So we all asked him one day why? He told us that all that smoke was from forcing the engine to run before it was properly warmed up and ready! He went on about air to fuel ratios, air flow and other things. He ended by saying he wanted to go to Hollywood and knock a few heads together and teach them how to properly run a steamer!

One very important reason why you don't see black smoke in the UK - it is actually illegal. Cannot recall whether it is the Clean Air Act of 1956 or 1968, but allowing a locomotive to produce black smoke is naughty and can lead to fines. Whilst realistically, a heritage railway wouldn't be fined for a quick "oops, bugger" moment from the fireman, doing it consistently and deliberately for a photographic charter would be a big no-no. Quite how this will change with the slight coal problems that UK heritage sector has been having recently remains to be seen.

Added note on the Oil Burners. As they burn, soot will build up and the tubes and flues insulating from the heat of the fire. So, every now and again, they pour sand in the fire chamber which then bounces around and knocks soot loose. Leading to a big trail of black coming out the stack.

I'm a fireman here in the UK - and I'm very much looking forward to visiting the US and experiencing your behemoths! This was a fascinating video, thank you; I never realised how different US-designed fireboxes were. Secondary air is drilled into us in the UK as extremely important; any large quantity of black smoke, such as at 3:24 in your video, would in the UK draw comments from the driver and frowns from any inspectors present!

There’s an excellent video on YT from someone driving side-by-side on the highway alongside UP4014 at about 60mph, and the Big Boy was running so clean that it barely produced any smoke, despite how hard the locomotive was firing - impressive!

Interesting comments which agree with. In the UK in the 1950's steam era you never saw black smoke coming from operating steam locos. I worked on station shunt locos for a time and you were not allowed to make smoke in the station environment. Even now, in New Zealand, I can fire small steam locos and produce virtually no smoke with crap coal. My job is to show new firemen how to fire so that smoke is kept to a minimum once the loco is operating.

Your calm demeanor while describing in-depth explanations of these questions, which sometimes we didn’t know we had, is always much appreciated.

In Britain, the type of coal used is normally a product called steam coal. This burns very hot (it would quickly burn through a domestic grate) and usually burns cleaner. In the traction engine community at traction engine rallies, owners get very annoyed with organisers who supply normal coal because it creates less heat to drive the engine, burns dirtily and reduces performance.

Norfolk and Western had stenciled on the front of the tender, right where the fireman could see it, "Black smoke means waste." When the railroad granted permission to O. Winston Link to photograph their engines at the end of steam operations, they requested he refrain from taking pictures of engines emitting black smoke.

The photography thing is certainly a big reason, and the pic at 2:10 is a perfect example of why. Photographers like action shots of a train, but that one pic looks like it was parked. True, you can demonstrate speed/movement in other ways, like with a panning shot, but that isn't always possible. Even though it's not a true representation, a big cloud of smoke gives the impression of the locomotive working and moving, and makes for a more dramatic shot overall.

Not really a train guy, but watched from curiosity. I can't believe how well I former you are, and how quickly and clearly you communicate the facts, history, and physics. I wish you Well and great success! You stand out from most "sales funnel" videos online, usually overselling something and wasting people's good time to do it.

When I first went to work for the railroad in the early 70s (in South Texas) there were still quite a few "old heads" from steam locomotive days left on the railroad. Hearing some of their stories, if a Road Foreman of Engines noticed an unusual amount of black smoke coming from a passing train, it was possible for the fireman to receive demerits "for waste of fuel". All the steam locomotives in use at the time were oil burners. Coal as a fuel in most of Texas had been phased-out by the time of WWI or in the 1920's at the latest. Plentiful cheap oil was too good a bargain for the railroads to ignore.

I recall a video from a UK steam preservation group who said they will no longer be doing black smoke due to environmentalist complaints. They also said HOW they got their smoke was throwing a few VHS tapes into the firebox.

In the UK we have dampers set up for directional running too, so you have control the airflow with those depending on the direction of travel relative to the firebox to get a good draft and complete combustion. Not sure how much of a thing that is on American locomotives.

Didn’t know I needed to know this. I loved steam engines as a kid, and it’s still in there. This showed up on my recommended and I’m so glad I now know. The funny thing is that I technically already knew this due to working with rich/lean conditions on a truck I owned for the first near decade of my adult life. It just never crossed my mind that the same logic was relevant to steam engines! Love to see it.

I think you summed it up perfectly in terms of the fuel quality how good the fireman is and coasting. Ed Dickens one time was asked the same question and he said that they realized when the engine is smoking it’s actually wasting fuel. So they try to keep both engines as clear as possible. Best advice if you want to see a big boy smoke, just chase it in the winter. Although N&W 611 and any of the locomotives at Cass Scenic Railroad smoke just as much as a power plant most of the time.

Always as my day starts, Hyce uploads. Perfect

Having run five oil burners and being taught to fire by a retired SP fireman back in the eighties I have had very little trouble firing oil burners. WSLC 12 is a tricky little locomotive but always performed well for me. Really no excuses for smoke. I have had people ask me for more smoke. I told them no way!

As a retired engineer I remember having to calculate and analysis how to burn fuels efficiently in my university degree. Think this was the best lab experiments we did. Though I went on to work for a company that designed and tested engines that did not use combustion as its energy source. We still had to maintain the back up diesels and sited heating boilers so they burnt the fuel correctly without black smoke. A term to remember for future discussions on the subject is the Stoichiometric fuel mixture ratio which is when all the fuel is burnt with no excess air (Oxygen) used. Another wee aside, as all the firemen will tell you its the gases that burn and not the solids. Hence the soot. So Stoichiometric is your word of the day and a ratio to remember for your car is 14.7:1

its interesting how the amount of knowledge the teacher have, is resoulting in a simple answer that is easier so understand... Anwering complex questions with a simple answer, requires heaps of knowledge and experience. Thanks Hyce

Great explanation as always bud. Can't wait to see more like this. Keep doing the great work you do.🎉

Stamp of approval on the explanation of combustion and what actually makes smoke. Well explained!

I love that RU-vid occasionally tosses me an interesting video about steam engines, just to keep the little kid in me smiling. Thanks for a very interesting answer to a question I never thought to ask.

Thank you very much for your research and this video! I've always been a very huge fan of old cars, trains, and air craft. The beautiful designs, as well as the heart, craftsmanship, blood, sweat, and dedication of that era really appeal to me. I have always "kinda" noticed the "black smoke thing" quite often, but I don't think it actually really registered in my brain until I saw your video. I'm not kidding about my love for grand old machinery and transportation. I'm the very proud owner of my Dad's old fully restored 1930 Ford Model "A" Town Sedan. Man is it a handful to maintain... but boy do I ever love the time I spend maintaining it, driving it, and sharing it with others. There's no happier feeling! Keep up the great vids!

As a retired volunteer firefighter, I can tell you that solids (or liquids) do not burn. Only gases burn. With coal you get it hot enough to release the flammable gasses which burn. Same way with "flammable liquids", the liquid doesn't burn, only the gasses from the liquid burns.

Reminds me of an old story I heard once, a road kept getting complaint letters about smoke from a switcher that was working a yard all the time by the complainer's house. Looked 'er over, nothing was was wrong with 'er and the fireman was doing his job right, but still the letters came and the road foreman had to keep addressing the crew about it. Eventually the fireman got so fed up he went to the town dump and came back with a stack of old rubber tires and chucked 'em into the firebox. That little switcher coughed up a wad of black smoke so thick and smelly the place stunk like burnt rubber for days. Wasn't long after that the complaints stopped coming in.

Really like your enthusiasm and energy in answering issues. You make the learning process really engaging. Well done.😉👍🏻

The Pennsy management did not like smokey fires. Their mantra was "A clean fire is an efficient fire". Which follows along with what you are saying, the right balance of fuel and air makes for more complete combustion and thus a low to no smoke fire.

This matches my experience with coal burning small gauge engines, to the point where as I’m about to leave the station, I’ll chuck a few scoops of coal in, and as I pull out, she blows a thick stack of smoke for photos, which dies down as I head up the back hill

Interesting insightful video! Having been a rail fan (steam mainly) for a long time I have to agree with you that photographer expectations have a big influence on smoke production. My Dad wrote a letter to Lucius Beebe in 1948 complimenting him on his then recent publication of Mixed Train Daily and got a response from the one of the biggest influencers of the time with regard to rail photography. I’ll quote a portion of the letter here where Beebe talks about the photos he used in his book. “The smoke effects were deliberate and calculated on our part. Simply we have seen so many pictures that we know to have been taken at speed but which show no exhaust at all that when we undertook Mixed Train we swore on a stack of Stork Club menus that we wouldn’t run a single action shot that didn’t show all the smoke we could get. We just think that an engine that isn’t visibly working steam has no point whatsoever to it. We worked apart” (referring to his partner Charles Clegg) “and took shots repeatedly over wide terrains to get the most possible exhaust, occasionally asking for it, but usually catching it at places where we knew we would get the greatest volume. We wanted every damn picture to be perfect, and there is hardly a single one we are going to change in the next printing.” If you have any of Beebe’s books you’ll see a lot of smoke being produced for the sake of drama and not efficiency. I thought this was a good data point to corroborate some of you conclusions.

Thanks, Hyce. I've always wondered about the actual mechanics of being a fireman and how what they do affects the burn and power. It'd be cool to see a piece devoted solely to firemen and their duties and techniques on different machines. I still get chills from that beautiful outro.... Cheers from Ottawa, ON

sincerely apprecite your analysis. you are clearly very knowledgeable on the topic given your experience. your channel has reignited (no pun intended) my fascination with steam engines. as a child a used to play around with a wilesco steam engine, which taught me the basics. I'm 35 now. Cheers and the best to you.

British engines also use anthracite (not culm) to fire with, whilst we use bitumous.

Yeah, lots of different variables here... very situational question these days. But in the steam era, smoke was one of the greatest sins you could commit as a fireman, right next to letting the safety valves blow off. Some preservation groups still feel this way. The guy who taught me how to fire did some calculations about the costs of fuel and the cost of waste coal and water when there's black smoke or safeties lifting. He had a can in the cab for training purposes - every time the safeties blow or you see dark smoke, you put a dollar in the can. The money went back to the museum as a donation, but that really taught the trainee fireman a good lesson about waste...

This is why RU-vid is the GOAT 🐐 LEARNING! ive never watched a locomotive educational video but the algorithm served it up and you explained everything in a understandable way and now im gonna watch all your videos and learn.

That LMS video is a fantastic source for any railway, even if some of the details are different for across the pond.

Having worked a few photo charters at Sumpter (as train crew not engine crew), I can confirm photographers and the photo organizer like to have smoke, and are not afraid to ask us to "back up and do another run-by with more smoke". Especially if one shall-remain-nameless-but-well-known-person is involved. I hear he fired the Shay at City of Prineville once and got buzzed, though not dropped on, by a firefighting air tanker because he put out so much smoke.

Thanks for the explanation and reference to the preservation mode steam locomotives are in today. Back in the day it was discouraged to have a lot of smoke pouring out, especially in populated areas.

slightly relevant is that any firefighter would completely understand this as they learn to read smoke. Thick black smoke is incomplete combustion. That's really all there is to it. Love these videos

Very interesting. Thanks for that. For years,I had wondered about this very topic, then I learn from you why it occurs.

Guys, we all know the real reason is that the fireman and engineer sit on the wrong side. Also Hyce, it’s the opening song in Firing 101.

Thanks for this I'm from the UK and I have noticed from the times I've been on railways that large amounts of black smoke aren't a very common thing (I did see it once when a 9F passed, but that's the only time I can recall). This was very helpful.

Another great explanation. Glad I found this channel.

Good lad. Excellent technical description. From a UK railway fan.

I'm surprised you didn't mention sanding the flues on an oil burner, that puts out a huge plume of black emoke.

If I understand correctly, In New Zealand they would sometimes "blow out" the boiler tubes of locos for photo runs by throwing a few shovels full of sand into the firebox, and it would clean the clinker buildup off the inside of the tubes and emit lots of smoke and even sparks (not great in summer!) looks impressive at sunset...

This was very interesting and something I had noticed about U.S. and UK steam engines. Thanks for answering this question.

I didn't know that I was interested in this until I watched it. Thanks, and loved the dobro in the outro music.

Im under the impression most of what comes out of a kettle's funnel (what we affectionately call steam engines in the UK!) is steam blown out of the cylinders, up the blast pipe mixed with some smoke from the firebox. Example on a cold day, you normally see lots of white steam coming out of the funnel as the hot steam cools. On a hotter day, you see far less steam because of the warmer ambient air temperature and not much smoke.

When you disturb the firebed by shoveling coal on it or stirring it, you also get smoke. Like you said - it's all fireman. Sometimes people want to see smoke for photographs. But most of the time, clear stack. However, quality of coal and even humidity can wreck a fire. I found when it got a lot more humid, like after a thunderstorm, the fire had a harder time burning when idle - more smoke.

Great video Hyce - I love learning new things, and especially about railroading. 😊💜😊💜😊

Huh, neat. Very informative! I'm guessing we were also a lot hotter on not producing a lot smoke over here just because more of our rail network is at the end of people's gardens, or at the end of their street than the US. Not that it mattered much in places, the area I live (The Black Country) was named for the fact that the skies were always thick with smoke from trains and factories...

I always thought the Brits also wanted to minimize the smoke, because unlike the US they are actually densely populated and didn't want to smoke up the landscape. Besides, when it comes to engineering the Victorian Brits probably took pride in being efficient, so seeing the black smoke from incomplete combustion likely annoyed them. Like, they saw this could be better and so they decided to make it better.

Very interesting, I worked as a combustion Engineer on coal boilers for many years, so couple of points. To stop smoke you need three things - time, temperature and turbulance. Time is by furnace design, Temperature is design and operation, and Turbulance is normally via the secondary air, Coal has two different 'bits' that burn, volatile matter, which produces the smoke, and fixed carbon, which is in effect Coke, a smokeless fuel, so its the volatile matter that makes the smoke (generally) It's very easy to get a coal boiler to smoke. harder with oil, almost (but not quite) impossible with gas. Good video, enjoyed it.

Coal tender over stoken boiler. They used to fine the tender for doing that back in the day. My father ran one. In state of michigan.

I would have thought it would have to do with the phase of the fireing process. Like there is a lot of smoke as when a lot of coal is just added to the fire and it is trying to ingnite, or with oil burners they just have put a load of sand in to clean the tubes and flues..

Fun Fact: The most filthy crude oil still burns cleaner than higher quality coal, just barely. You can also use engine oil to fire oil burners if you're desperate.

I didn't know I wanted to know this, but I'm glad that I now know. Thanks for what you do. It's always interesting.

Speaking as a photographer, that answer makes a hell of a lot of sense. In a still photo, you need something 'dynamic' to show movement, & a big plume of smoke is a great way to do that.

I got a question, how about wood burners, are they able to run clean if the fireman has the skill to do so, or are they going to always spit out black smoke from there funnels? Sidenote: First day of Life after Graduating high school and I'm met with a Hyce Video, great explanation Hyce, keep up the good work!

Many years ago, when I lived in England I had a friend who owned a steam powered traction engine. This broke down close to home and I helped where I could. A week or so later boiler repairs were completed. When he was ready to leave there were complaints that the Brewery engine was not making any smoke. There was a small bag of tire trimmings in the cab (from the tire retreading business) and I was told to throw some in the firebox. I was unaware what this stuff would do, so I threw a bloody great big handful in. The whole place disappeared in enough black smoke to stop global warming.

Simple and VERY informative - thanks for making this video. And for the record, I LOVE watching the black smoke billow out. I rode the Knox,Kane,and Kinzua train many times and loved the smoke - the whistle was good too. After the tornado in PA went thru and destroyed the viaduct, I never went back. Crossing that viaduct made you feel like you were flying.

British guy here , thank you so much for that really accurate description of a question I confess I had not Evan thought of , and it was interesting that it was mostly just what the photographer wants to see. I appreciated your answer of the small differences in the design of steam engine and most importantly why !! . Thank you a most interesting video.

Hyce could you please explain the American phobia of inside cyclinders.

Third commenter

Thank you for the clarity on this issue

I have learned something today :) Thank you for that!

I have asked this question myself and your explanation was really helpful. Thank you.😅

I'm glad you mentioned the LMS instructional video, because I was going to recommend it.

I am not sure how this wound up in my feed but found it interesting and educational. Thanks!

I randomly came by this video but I assume the RU-vid algorithm can see that I enjoy these little snippets of information. Thank you for a fascinating video. We don't see many of the great steam engines in the UK these days but when we do, they are surely a head turner. Now I'll be looking at the colour of the smoke and giving the fireman marks out of 10 for a good, clean burn.

who new this would be fascinating!! well done, thanks

Two things I'd love to see for videos, first of a quick 101 on the smokebox and blast nozzles Then I'd love to see Hyce's reaction to the Lithgow Zig Zag Railway over here in Australia.

He is correct as to air/fuel mixture creating or limiting smoke. Also enjoyed the American to British steam engine construction. However the a-ha moment for me was that photographers wanting more dramatic pictures! That was very smart of him.

Excellent production and information.

I only clicked on this because of mild curiosity, but I must say the sound recording of some of the clips was exceptional. Added that bit of sub-conscious atmosphere that allowed this listener to 'feel the power' of the engines shown on a gut level. Cool...

That video of UP 3985 going to the Super bowl and sending up a massive volcanic plum from sanding the flues is something else.

Really enjoyed your presentation. Thank you.

This was really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Wonderfully fascinating. I fondly remember steam trains rolling up the valley when I was very young and walking the disused railway embankment when a little older.

Hi Mark that was excellent as always, thanks for this learning moment! Cheers to you Professor! BTW happy Birthday 🎉 to Peaches!

Great explantion! Thanks!

Excellent and clear explanation. I too have been wondering!

I love coming across random stuff like this 👍🏻

Words that come to mind; legitimate, honest and factual. Nice work and well done from a random viewer from down under.

Great video! The older I get, the more interested I am in old trains 😁 And I learned a lot here. Thanks!

In steam days larger UK stations would have signs on platform ends warning footplate crews not to make smoke, due to complaints from homes and businesses close to the line. Your comment about secondary air is spot on here. Ta.

Very educational and excellent presentation, thanks 😊

Great explanations on burn control!!

I so love your videos. You are such a great presenter and explain things in depth. Cheyenne Wyoming

That was surprisingly interesting & I now know. Thanks.

i love your educational videos always learn something new :D

Great explanation. I learned something today.

Love that old-fashioned English voice on the LMS clip . It's very clear and easy to understand whatever your class in those days, but you would get some very strange looks in Britain if you spoke with that sort of register today. "I say old chap, a pint of your best bitter, please." Hilarious.

A fantastic video to a question I never knew needed answering.

That was more interesting that I thought it would be. Thank you.