@@CmLeo145 yes, but that’s in an era where the teams realized they can just tell newcomers to get the hell out of here if they aren’t manufacturers, so is it really that much of an improvement?
Maybe a double-hybrid system that does nothing but make the cars larger, heavier and more expensive just so auto manufacturers can virtue signal about the enviroment was a "bad idea" in single seater racing. Car companies dominating the sport is the worst thing eccleston did during his tenure in charge. F1 was far more "F1" when teams like Lotus, Brabham and Arrows were in the sport, real racers, than a marketing wing of a mega corporation. Somehow its too expensive to ship refueling equipment to each race (that makes the cars smaller and lighter so they can fit on a track together), but a hospitality center that takes 8-12 semi trucks to transport so corporate guests can ignore the race in comfort is no problem for the sport to handle.
@@thevictoryoverhimself7298 refueling is about more than expense. The primary reason they don’t do it anymore is safety, and because they don’t have to.
@@mmonkeyman1403 the stated reason at the time was shipping costs. I was there at the time :). This was in the middle of a bunch of dumb knee-jerk reactions to the 2008 financial crisis that we are still living with in f1.
It's sad when I see people use these teams as an reason that Andretti shouldn't join. Its a completely different situation, and unlike these teams, Andretti wouldn't be doomed from the start. I miss Manor.
@@SD-mi2vc Because its ridiculous? Unless the stand is never let anyone in any new team is doing to have influence and backing if it's going to actually survive. If there is no desire to expand the grid then just say.
Almost craziest of all, we went from having no teams called Lotus - to the return of the Lotus name - to weirdly having 2 separate teams both calling themselves Lotus... and then eventually losing both 'Lotus' teams and having no Lotus on the grid again! 🤷 It's a strange old sport sometimes... gotta love it!
To muddy the waters further, one Team Lotus was a brand new team, but not the original Team Lotus, and later renamed Caterham. The other, Lotus F1 was a rebrand of Renault, which was itself a rebrand of Benetton which had competed against both Renault and Lotus for several seasons in the 1980s.
As an American I remember how Speed channel hyped up USF1 just for it to fall flat on it's face. I think that really hurt Peter Windsor for a long time. He was the on track reporter for Speed channel F1 for long time before that and it seemed he literally disappeared for a few years after that team failed.
What the video didn't mention: Ferrari back in 2009 did everything they could to prevent the cost cap from taking effect, even got other then current teams onboard, and they got their way eventually. Hence if you ask me, this was the reason why there is a large gap between teams back in 2010. Had 2010 had a cost cap, things might have played out differently favoring the new teams. Cruel irony given Ferrari has agreed to cost capping from 2021 onwards.
@@WhiteG60 that would be definitely q cool but top teams defo reject that 😭. The current cost cap still doesn't make the field completely equal since ferrari red bull mercedes have better facilities and full dyno testing. So that 2 tiers is a cool concept defo
@@javierplays9516 RB/Mercedes/Ferrari would still spend 500 million a year, as if they are 1 second or 2 seconds faster than the rest, that benefits for the others do not matter at all.
@@christian9125abd true which is why i still prefer the current cost cap. But nothing the FIA will do can change the top 3 anyway, the top 3 will always be ferrari mercedes red bull, except for one off years or a slow decline (rip mclaren & williams)
@@christian9125abd "except for one off years". While ppl like to troll on ferrari they never rlly declined recently, they hv js been not making use of their package. In the past decade they finished in the top 3 ignoring 2014 & 2020. But they have up & down seasons ur right its never stable
I'll never forget the images of Bianchi's #17 Manor sitting in the pit box post Japan, 'waiting' for his return after his crash. Still have an F1 car in Forza Motorsport, with his livery, as a tribute.
Actually, it's year 26/7, considering they first wanted to get into F1 back in 1996, and then to "replace" MasterCard Lola's entry for the 1998 season- 💀
As an ex-Cosworth engineer, I got the opportunity to work in the big circus between 2010-2014, and the issues were merely money and I&D (no wind tunnel and most of the parts and development were required by an external partner.
Haha bruh, I remember staring a 2010 drivers career and I managed to score 1 win in China... Thanks to delaying my pit stop until only 7 laps remained... And it started to rain xD
This is great info for newer fans. One thing that Liberty media did well was stabilize the grid. Williams, for a time, looked shaky but we have 10 set teams, and potentially 1 or 2 more coming soon. The sport, financially, is in a lot healthier shape than it was not long ago.
@@atkascha Atkascha, have u watched clips in GRAN TURISMO 5 UNSEEN? It is in my channel. One of them featured clips about the announcement of Setsuna's new CV.
I was gutted to watch Manor fold. They'd really shown astonishing competence in their later years and that points finish for Bianchi at Monaco was just a joyous moment for all involved. Neither driver nor team got the prosperous future they deserved. Also, it's astonishing how much prices went up in F1 from the 90s. In 1991 there were still multiple teams circulating that had budgets well under 10m. Not _good_ teams, mind, but nevertheless.
Yeah, it was quite painful to see Manor leave at the end of 2016, especially since they were actually able to challenge for points on occasion, quite comparable to Williams in the last few years. If they would've been able to hold out for a few more years, I think we might still have had 11 teams on the grid.
It is too few. Since, by the rules, in order to have a pre Qualify again, you need more than 26 cars. The most that Formula 1 has gone to (and on this, I'm being slyly ironic) is the 24 we've seen.
It’s a shame what happened to the three teams, but Manor in particularly is a sad story. Even without the tragedy of what happened to Jules, it honestly looked like things were starting to improve for them in 2016 with the most competitive car they had produced, and then all of a sudden it was gone
I always thought McLaren should have bought Caterham or Manor for 2015, stuck the honda engine in it for two years to give it the chance to develop. Much like RB did with Toro Rosso in 2019
Max Mosley initially wanted Cosworth to supply the whole grid with engines to keep costs down. Of course, neither Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault (or BMW then) would accept that even if they could take up the blueprints and make it themselves. One way to pressure them could have been to make Cosworth manditory for all other teams (imagine McLaren, Williams, Red Bull, Toro Rosso all using Cosworth along with Lotus, HRT and Manor) but would have actually helped bring costs down while Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault would havd gone up. Spending more doesn't help when your costs go up.
It was a beautiful time to watch F1 Despite I was broke and life was hard as F. I enjoy it this F1 more than ever until 2013 It was good for me since 99 until 2013 That was the last season I really enjoy it. And I am an Alonso fan.
In 1994 or 1995 I was part of a tour of the Pacific F1 team. The area smelt of burnt materials. Their transporter had caught fire in the Mont Blanc Tunnel. It was an interesting tour and informative. I was also able to have a visit to the Lola factory when they were doing well in the USA which was well before they tried to do F1 in 1997. At one stage I also had a tour through the Minardi factory, again another interesting visit.
They were setup to fail, mostly due to the existing big fish teams manipulating the rules in their own favor. The promised cost cap never materialized Cheaper Cosworth engines didn't get the development they needed And the teams needed to score points and finish in the top 10 to secure funding from F1's revenue, which meant that functionally only 1 of the 3 new teams would get any F1 prize money despite racing for the entire year. So the minnows had to rely entirely on sponsors and merch to survive, and given their low overall performance and high operating costs of F1 made this a nearly impossible task. So the minnow teams went into F1 which their legs cutout from underneath them and having to fight among each other for the scraps of 10th place in the championship Ultimately Jules Bianchi's results in Manor/Murussia were the only thing that kept the team afloat as long as they did. So why did Haas succeed while these 4 times collapsed? Haas ironically took the approach that HRT should have, leveraging Dallara to make their chassis in Italy proving that could work. Meanwhile beg/borrowing/stealing every part of the Ferrari car they could get their hands on to save on development costs. But the key factor for Haas was that with only 10 teams on the grid they would be guaranteed F1 prize money so long as they scored at least 1 point in the year. The only way F1 can sustain more than 10 teams moving forward is by agreeing to split the prize pool with the smaller teams and maintaining the cost cap. The recent arguments over Andretti kinda prove this point, as the bigger teams (mostly Toto and Mercedes) don't want to split the prize pool.
Marussia could have survive, had it not been (Sauber) Nasr's points finish at Brazil. Ironically, the points finish also cost Nasr his seat and he would have better off crashing out.
@@chlcrk If I remember correctly, Sauber hardly had any funding in the first half of '16 but they had new Swedish owners in the second half (linked with Ericsson) that pumped a bit more cash in. At the time, Sauber were probably the least credible team on the grid; a dreadful 2014 not helped by a bad driver lineup. and the mess of having three drivers for two cars in '15. My understanding is that if Manor stayed around for '17, Nasr would have driven for them.
I love how F1 has the opportunity to improve on this with Andretti and Cadillac and create an amazing team for the sport, but they just won't let them in because it might take a few bucks from the other teams. Come ON guys
Andretti will join the grid a long way behind the established teams, and will be operating in about the same ball park as Haas. After a couple of years, Yanks will be writing them off, and asking for a new "proper American" team.
So we're now seeing what happened in 2010 basically, new teams are trying their best to get into F1 as it grows, FIA after some thinking agrees with the new teams, but already existing teams are blocking the ability for the new teams to join or compete.
David Coulthard knew this would happen when he said the teams thought, "oh, discount to get into F1." Disaster from the beginning. All they did was damage the sport
F1 should put as many cars on the grid as possible. At 2010 they told me 13 teams/26 cars was the maximum. I can't believe Teams have a monopoly to block newcomers. How can you have a world championship in sports if you deny acces to the worlds participants. As a huge f1 fan i want more teams. Welcome Andretti/Audi/Porshe?.
Way back around 1990 (the first full season I watched on TV) I vaguely remember there were more cars than grid slots so it was actually possible to fail to qualify (30 cars competing for 26 slots)
What about F1 Division 1 and Division 2 (like in football)? If you consistently win in D2, you get promoted to D1 (and don’t perform in D1, you get dropped).
I wish we had more teams joining and more cars in the grid. Would love to see bmw and Toyota come back with Audi. I have high hopes for Audi they usually have great race programs but f1 is very different. I wish Andretti would get his chance as well
The only Indian auto company involved in F1 was Tata motors,part of HRT F1 Team from 2011 till HRT folded up. USF1 ??? Nowhere on grid and the same goes to StefanF1 . Bernie did not want him on the grid It is worth noting Manor Actually built a mock up of 2017 car
That's a ludicrous statement. To put haas on the level of marrisua is laughable. If andretti were to join F1, they would struggle to replicate the success Haas jave had.
Felipe Nasr destroyed Manor and ironically his career by finishing 9th at the 2016 Brazilian GP. Until that time, Sauber has never scored point, behind Manor.
This is where things get confusing. There was Team Lotus. They were owned by the car company. They have been out of Formula One for a LONG time. Like you mentioned, there was a Lotus F1 team that was actually just owned by a company that owned the Lotus naming rights. That team is now the Renault/Alpine team when they took a hiatus. They had Kimi and also Grosjean who both had podiums for the team. Then there was Caterham who was just sponsored by Lotus in 2010. That's this team. That relationship was a disaster and ended up in numerous lawsuits.
@@1greenMitsi he had several midfield options available, but decided to go for Caterham because "new team, new opportunities" etc. Return to Renault was at least one of the options and they were race winning team in 2012 and 2013.
It was quite bad for sure. They had lost their Main sponsor and engine supplier - BMW and both of their drivers (Kubica and Heidfeld) with team principal Mario Theissen also departing. So, it was quite abysmal. But because of Ferrari's engine and Peter Sauber's money, they implemented a new management led by Monisha Kaltenborn
Imagine taking all this money and applying it to IndyCar instead. These teams could be legends at this point, instead of chewed up and spit out by the F1 politics.
The hierarchy in decision making about the sport should be clear FIA above F1/Liberty above the teams Too much involvement from teams in shit they have no business in such as if new teams want to enter. Then you have F1/Liberty who only care if you're an engine manufacturer as a new team or adding even more street circuits to an already bloated calendar.
As d rules says if a new team wants to enter it has to pay $100 million but what if a team comes today in 2023 n says it bought HRT or Catherine or Manor Racing factory or its facilities does it still has to pay anything to enter or not ...
They still do As what happened when Phoenix Finance *tried* to bullhorn their way onto the grid after buying Prost GP's assets without buying the entry
@@asifrangooni okay, I'll put it this way then You can buy the schoolbooks and the uniforms but if you're not the one enrolled you can't go into the class
Wherlin finished 10th and scored 1 point at the Austrian GP. Nasr finished 9th and scored 2 points at the Brazilian GP. Which means, Sauber beat Manor by 1 point.
This is what makes me mad about the current teams bitching about Andretti/Cadillac joining. The chances of a new team being competitive the first decade of the sport is almost non existent. Yet he's willing to pay the €200million dissolution fee just for a chance at competing... And Aston, Williams etc are whinging that it's not enough.
F1 should make a rule that every team should have their own engine/power units. This will make sure teams wont be dependable on other manufacturers like the big 3. It’s the only way for genuine competition in the modern era
That would annihilate the entire midfield. Engine design at that level is incredibly expensive. Having an engine customer program is FAR less expensive than developing your own.
@@jsquared1013 Good. Time for some real competition in the “best racing category”. Time for some actual competition. Screw teams like haas, Renault, Alfa and Williams who will never make it back on top.
I remember getting really hyped about a 26 or even just 24 car grid. Sadly none of these teams lived up to their pre season promise because they all made the mistake of starting from nothing and ultimately struggled for sponsorship and stable ownership.
They made the mistake of taking F1's word. Had they known beforehand the cost cap they were promised was just never going to happen, I'm sure neither of all 4 teams would've even think of starting one season
