A quick note about keeping the inside of a computer dust free (because although this video was cool I don’t really care much about the Mac vs PC debate). If the inside of the case is dust free after all that time it’s because the system was designed with intake fans that pull in slightly more air than the outgoing fans push out. This leaves the inside of the case with a slight positive pressure which tends to, over time, push out any dust lying around. That’s a nice touch by Carillon. 👍
This! I don't know if it's because intake fans "push out dust" but for sure having more intake or only intake fans instead of exhaust fans somehow keeps dust from building up inside your case.
This is not how things work. Pressure or not, dust will accumulate either way. That's what dust does. It WILL precipitate, there WILL be corners where turbulences work like cyclone separators. Pressure doesn't matter here. It's the flow of air that does. As long as there is air, laden with dust, flowing through places, pushed or "sucked", dust WILL find places and corners to precipitate and stick to surfaces.
Nope you’re wrong. I have a graduate degree in physics and I’ve studied fluid dynamics in detail. Pressure absolutely matters in this case (haha no pun intended).
@@lynchseanmAnd I have a diploma in dismissing impressive-sounding titles for their non-value in an internet argument. Pressure could possibly only ever matter if dust was compressible, but even then it doesn't matter as far as accumulation is concerned. If it's in the air, it will get in, and if that air is moving, and moving through the jagged internals of a PC, stagnation and turbulence will happen where particles may separate and deposit, and deposit particularly well when those particles are electrostatically charged and/or when they are organic (like pollen or shed skin cells) and thus sticky. And it will not matter whether a fan forces air into the case, with it escaping through ports but also gaps, or whether a fan draws air out, with it being aspirated through ports and gaps. Deposition will always happen at the right places, physics degree graduate or otherwise. At best, pressure _happens_ where flow slows down, but it's a _side effect,_ it's not a _cause_ of deposition.
Sorry, I'm still not convinced that Dan isn't powering his studio with some kind of hyper advanced alien technology, but this was a nice attempt at throwing us off the trail. 😁
Big fan of your content Dan…….but. I ordered a top spec rack mount PC from Carillon and it arrived with significant damage to the case due to poor packaging. We are talking major shift in the case geometry across the horizontal axis, such that it would no longer rack mount. It would be impossible to quantify the shock the components had experienced and the effect this would have on reliability. This was a 4K PC so not cheap. I had to employ a solicitor to get any promise of being refunded even after returning the PC. Mr Carillon dragged out refunding me for over a month. I could not endorse him as being an ethical vendor. I spent 6K on a Mac Studio M2 Ultra. Apple ARE overpriced but they are a legitimate business that deals with customer complaints/dissatisfaction properly. Believe you me, sitting and worrying for weeks that you may have lost 4K to a rogue company is extremely stressful. I have photographs and legal documentation if Carrillon want to try it on and sue me for defamation. Consumers ought to know what they are getting in to.
The files management, the retro compatibility of ancient software and the fact you can update every single piece of hardware.. it's something I could never live without. And when your PC is totally outdated you can place your OS hard drive (with all your softwares) in a new machine and everything works fine. It's just insane.
@@thomsonhomsonI use Windows since 1995 and I never experienced all these bugs. You just need to search for "Windows xx optimization" on Google to keep your system working like a rock. The only truly buggy OS from Windows was Vista and I never installed it because nobody forced me to update my OS to run my softwares.
for me it's the price. I can get myself a pc that can edit video, run all the plugins I'll ever need without latency play any games I want AND get a much more user friendly experience for less than the price of a mac book that struggles with all of this.
@@thomsonhomson Yes, without regular maintenance, things will always break. If I draw an analogue to cleaning your house, maintaining Windows PC is like cleaning it yourself or hiring someone to do it yourself. Cleaning Mac, however, is you have designated company to do the cleaning and you have very little control over what they clean and fix and what not. And when problems arise, even small ones, there's nothing you can do yourself. Sure it is easy, but you pay for that easiness with both money(optional on PC, non-optional on Mac) and control(as much as you like on PC, none at Mac). This is never a question about which one is objectively better. It is always a subjective assessment, weighing pros and cons against your own personal needs and situation. For every pro PCs have, they also have a con. And the exact same goes for Mac whether or not you want to admit it. No objectively perfect system exist.
I second that as a user of both Apple's M1 16gb ram MBP & i7 12700K 32gb ram. I do most of my production on Windows, an only use MBP when I travel and feel creative
Want to preface this by saying your videos on production are second to none, and it's almost a sin that you offer all your knowledge for free. But here are a few issues I have with Windows Desktops. 1. The noise. For music producers that also want to record, minimizing the noise is ideal. The noise of a Mac Mini or Mac Studio doesn't even compare to the noise coming from a PC. Of course this depends on placement of the PC, microphone type (dynamic) and other factors. But with a Mac Mini/Studio (M1/M2/M3), you don't have to worry about noise. 2. The form factor. In addition to a low-noise level, having a small (powerful) system is ideal for desk space and convenience. 3. The drivers. I know many musicians (like yourself) use Windows as their main OS, but for me it has been nothing but problems. I work in IT and I've built PC's since I was a teenager, but every Windows system I have owned has had an issue with audio. The last straw was when my Apollo Twin USB had constant clicks and pops after endless troubleshooting. I had a ticket open with Universal Audio for almost 2-months, waiting weeks in-between replies. I eventually just told them to close the ticket, because I bought a Mac for the first time in 2019 and never looked back. Never had an issue with clicks, pops, latency, drivers, etc... For the price, performance, form factor, noise level, and quality, I don't think anything can beat a Mac Mini or Mac Studio. There are used 2022 M1 Max Mac Studios selling for around $1,000. And Mac Minis are even cheaper.
check noise on the latest M3... it's back to 2019. Also, windows can work really well for audio but you have to go through the whole system to fine tune it, but ye, I agree with you, I'm with apple sillicon for a few years now because it wouldnt make sense not to go with them, although apples policies are annoying and their approach to right to repair as well.
since I understand computers roughly how Dan understands audio, here's few brief comments on the topic: 1) advantage of CoreAudio is, it has built-in audio device aggregation capability, MIDI device access to multiple apps, MIDI over ethernet native capability (Windows users can use rtpMIDI and loopMIDI for similar result, but can only dream about being able to use multiple audio and MIDI interfaces across multiple apps simultaneously without hiccups) 2) serious disadvantage of Apple Silicon Macs is push towards DriverKit drivers, which are inferior to standard kernel extensions in a way audio interface driver has no longer direct kernel access and priority over any other processes running on a MacOS, RME recently did a video on the topic, it's basically a dead-end for professional audio work on Mac (and meets expectations of Macs slowly devolving to iPads) 3) for audio work, consistent sustained performance is what matters, and also minimum bloat (including useless features and connectivity on computer's motherboard), spec shown in the video (i7-13700KF, 32GB ram, RTX 3050, two SSDs) is more than enough for 99% audio users - that said I'd arguably suggest i7-13700K without "F" which has integrated graphics that could be used for video encoding/decoding acceleration or as a backup in case of dedicated graphics card failure 4) rack PC cases are somewhat rare, but it's not true rackmounted computer is not user-friendly, in fact you can get a rack shelf with rails (computer racks are usually deeper than pro-audio racks, so depends on studio desk/rack) and comfortably slide computer for easy maintenance (just be sure there's enough counterweight and attached cables long enough or detach them)
They are clocked to the same source in macOS. You can manage how the devices are aggregated in Audio MIDI settings which is built into macOS. It’s essentially like having a built in MOTU unit.
i can seamlessly run reaper (using asio to my sound card) and other apps (firefox with youtube) using standard windows sound subsystem, and hear both their sounds together. i think this might be a feature of the driver of my interface (umc204hd) so kudos to behringer if that's the case. the only thing that requires exclusive access on windows is a webcam now.
@@cURLybOi your DAW accesses your interface via ASIO, while windows accesses it via DirectWave or WDM. ASIO has exclusivity but WDM doesn't, and you can use both at the same time. your interface's drivers (like all interface drivers) understand this and see WDM, ASIO, KS, and DirectWave as different "streams" that can all come at the same time.
I used PCs for audio forever, even though I'm a developer by trade. For me, having all of those *nix tools really do make my life easier, which I discovered when my company bought me a fancy Mac. I've gotten really used to having a similar platform for audio work and proper work. But you can do great work on any platform.
I think it's really cool that music production professionals are even talking about Linux at all. There has been a gigantic effort recently to make the user-facing software more polished and easy to use, and that is only going to get more intense as it keeps picking up steam. It would be so cool if mainstream Linux distros stop being perceived as operating systems exclusively meant for comp-sci nerds, and instead are instead seen as regular competitors to Windows and MacOS.
It seems like the Steam OS is a step in the right direction. Didn't use it yet, don't have a steam deck. And honestly, i don't mind switching to Linux, if it means we get a cheaper and super stable machines for music work.
with all the recent ad bloat, im considering the switch for about 2 years now. but i still need adobe apps to work on a regular basis and dualboot will just fragment my work and have me constantly switch OS. also gaming. but valve is pushing that on devs too, so i really hope we will get there
I am an audio professional [voiceover[ and I run 100% Linux. There are three serious options: Ubuntu Studio, AV Linux and Fedora Jam [used to be called redhat ccrma]. I run Ubuntu Studio 22.04 LTS. I use a Rode NT1 and a focusrite 2i2 3rd gen audio interface. Pros and why I do this: Linux is a quiet environment with no AV or phone homes or ad nonsense. I get all the juice from my computer specs all the time. Main con: hardware drivers still present a problem in Linux. For instance I cannot find a webcam that runs in Linux. I use a quiet computer built to make minimal noise. The fans and case are designed to make no noise. Uses a SSD [obvious]. I left Windows for good in 2019. I did look at Mac as an option. But I don't like it. It puts all my eggs in on e basket; if something goes wrong I can't swap out a part. I also don't live near a Mac store so to fix anything Mac would take time that I don't have. The ratio of price to specs is also crazy; for what a Mac costs you can build a Linux computer that is far better. I will be running Linux at least until the end of this decade. I use Reaper and Harrison Mixbus as my DAW software.
You just can't fight against the MOUNTAINS of VST and sample libraries and samplers and other VSTi that windows has. Also, if there's no official drivers from your interface manufacturer it's a miss. You can get by if you're using like 4-io basic USB device, but when you try to offer it RME UFX-II or something else that's really geared to professionals use, you're shafted because no driver support: it's a brick. And that's the main issue with Linux in many MANY use cases. And the backlog of thousands of pieces of software and hardware will not be easily translated nor never (because there's no money in it) One game dev told the YT few weeks back, that they spent huge amount of time to get their game working on mac and after all the work it counted for 0.02% of their sales... so they dropped the mac version and will never ever develop for mac again. What would happen if NI translated let's say Kontakt for Linux... how much would they earn from that? Would it be financially viable?
This video is very important for every person that is pursuing to be a musician / sound engineer. It really shows you the choices you have with different OSes and lets you take an informed decision based on your preference, and not by some peer pressure bs. Thank you Dan! People need this clarity. And as for the people that are reading this comment, if you're on the look out for a new computer, here is my general advice. If you've grown up with a specific OS, STICK TO IT. You know that OS better than the other. Its easier to make your way around it, especially if you get to troubleshooting and tinkering(assuming you do that). Please don't get influenced by your peers and mentors. The same goes for your DAW choice. Its what's important to "you" that matters. After all you are gonna use it, not they.
Spot on @athuuu. I was using Win 95 running Logic when it was eMagic. The Win95 machine was a dog. Something would "break" in the OS and many times I had to re-image the OS drive to get back up. A friend had a Mac running the the older OS9 using Logic on a Mac computer that was spec-wise anemic compared to my PC. However, it ran Logic far better and was stable as a rock. My Win95 machine running Logic would crash often. So I switched to a Mac G5 tower running OSX and spent more time making music rather than swearing up and down at a crappy Win95 machine. Then Apple acquired eMagic and I never looked back. I'm still using Logic to this day and thought about changing but I can fly through a production on Logic and don't relish the time that would be required learn a new system and application. What works for you is what's best for you. Cheers.👍
To each his own. I was on PC for a long while and hated MAC. I had bought 3 PC laptops that all failed within 2 years. Then I bought a Mac book Pro which still works. 2007. Then mac mini with the DVD drive, still works. I have 2 "cheesegrader" Mac Pros working just fine. I know many people don't like how the Apple ecosystem works but I bought a MBP 10 core MBP and everything just works together. Still using the 5,1 and its operating fine.
For me it's the opposite, I chose to switch to a macbook pro in 2019, spent more than 3k on it. And it died on me quite soon after 3 years, Apple saying it's "probably" the motherboard after looking inside it and that since they can't fix anything in their computer, I need to pay 700 *without tax* to replace it entirely... 700... for a 2019 laptop's motherboard. Tbh I wasn't even surprised since it ran close to a 100°C under load, after a while something was bound to break. I guess it looks better with their own CPUs now but nothing that is going to make me trust their products again.
Cheapest Mac Mini M1 with 8G/256G, (Mac Mini M2 now 599 €) more than a year now. ca < 30 Watt. Completely silent. Running Cubase El 13 and other apps like Blender, Xcode, flawlessly on two 4K monitors. My Windows 10 PC has been "promoted" to games only on my 4k TV. The only disadvantage of this Mac Mini M1 is, that I can't use it to heat my apartment in the winter😊
I’ll never return to PC and Windows when it comes to music production. I switched to mac a couple of years ago and I don’t think one day goes by without me thinking about how glad I am that I switched. I don’t miss ASIO, annoying fans, crackling audio, poor performance, high latency. They are all pure inspiration killers.
Lots of people using PCs have no issues. All you did was make trade offs, and it sounds like it worked out for you. Many people don't want to pay a lot more for the same or less computing power (actual power consumption is something Apple is amazing at now), endless dongles and cable swapping and hubs, inability to add more RAM or even drive space as needs change, regular OS updates that break older software, etc. There's no green grass for the OSes, just different lawn mowers.
@@cfs You're talking about apple like 10 years ago. It's not expensive anymore. I bought an m1 mac mini for $500 bucks and it will run anything I want to run for the next ten years. It has all the i/o I could possibly ever need and with the efficiency of the chips, you don't need to add anything. If you're a serious music producer, then you aren't doing OS updates anyway. I get what you're saying, and I'd be agreeing with you until apple silicone came out. You just can't beat the integration and ease of use that apple products provide. I wanna create, I don't wanna fiddle with settings, drivers, and instability all the time. I'm saying this after pushing through using cubase, and studio one on pc for 10 years. After getting a Mac I'll NEVER go back.
@@dudemcgee256 I don't have to "deal with drivers" (if you install software on the Mac to use a product it's the same step), I don't have instability, I don't fiddle with settings. I just create. On Windows. I also use an MBP every day. It's just as unstable for me - which is to say, both are pretty reliable and easy, but both have issues sometimes. Yes the integration is there on Mac, and that smooths some things out, but also introduces others. Anyway, not meant to be a Mac V PC battle - let's just say there's ample info on "both sides" as to which is "better". Main thing is to realize the answer is personal not for everyone, and then use the one best for you to make stuff. Cheers.
I am an “old-timer” having worked and developed in computer-based media since the OpCode, Sound Designer and related sequencer days before digital audio in any modern sense. Anyway, I mostly use NVidia H100 based Linux PC’s for AI Deep Learning and related development, Mac for many things including DAW work (mostly in Reaper) and PC’s for Pyramix (for DSD), Reaper and various other digital media things. In any case, I agree that OSX buries and isolates things in such a way that if you do {and I have) have deeper audio chain issues, they can be a real pain to address. I have used Mac’s since my first Lisa and 128K, but I have moved to Merging fanless rack PC’s for much of my mission critical studio work (and a dedicated M3 Mac running nothing but critical audio software). I am glad to learn about Carillon as a good option to Merging (now Merging/Neuman). Thanks!
As an old timer do you agree that for the first time in living memory, both Windows and Apple are hardware companies. Windows by mandating hardware requirements is a hardware company. They might not realize that. But they are. I cannot see what prerogative Windows has to tell ME what hardware I should run with MY computer and MY time and money. Have run 100% Linux for serious audio since 2019. [Ubuntu Studio] . I will be running Linux for audio for at least the rest of the decade. I have no time or energy for the games, pranks and brain flatulence of a post-capitalist American tech duopoly.
The worst part about Mac is mouse cursor and scrolling, unless you use Apple mouse which is terrible ergonomically, no mouse will work good on a Mac, it won’t even work average
I’ve used several types of mice (razer, 3D connexion, and others) on macs for years doing heavy 3D modeling which requires high accuracy (blender, rhino3d, sketchup, Zbrush…) never had any issue. Could you explain further ?
@@philippeb1507 there’s no way to adjust cursor acceleration, ( possible with 3rd party apps but they introduce more glitches than problems they solve )
Love Quicksand, Dan. I used to be one of those who erroneously thought Apple “took care” of Mac users. The wool fell away when I got into 4K video editing and learned the best cost and performance options were to build my own pc. I’ll never look back. Thanks, as always!
The dust free thing just depends on if you are running a positive or negative pressure fan set up (or neutral tbf). Positive means that no dust can get inside any gaps, and the only way for air to get in is through the filtered intake. Negative literally sucks dust into your system, so is usually avoided (it's also argued it has worse thermal performance due to less air being inside at any one given time to cool the components.
I'll argue the heating part of that. Having negative pressure, lower pressure inside the case relative to the pressure outside the case, cools the air giving it a greater capacity to absorb the heat that it will carry away. Heat is just molecular movement. Spray a can of compressed air and as the air inside the can expands, it gets cold, thus the can condenses the moisture in the air and develops frost on it. If the air entering the case of a computer expands, it cools as the molecules move away from each other giving them more space and lowering the level of energy. As the air interacts with the components, it gets excited and picks up energy, becoming more dense again, then carrying that heat energy out of the case. Why heat the air as you force it into the case? The dust issue is simply a matter of how clean the air entering the case is. Yes, if the case has positive pressure and the intake fans are filtered, the positive air will keep dust from entering various leaks or vent in the case.
@@midi510 We are not taling about multiple bar of pressure differential here. You only need there to be a fraction of posative pressure to keep out dust. At these miniscule differences of pressure any thermodynamic effects on the air due to pressure alone will be completely negligible. Where as the sliding scale of air flow to temperature transfer efficiency is in a range that does effect a PC's cooling.
@@DaftFader You brought up the the thermal aspect. It just doesn't make any sense that having more air molecules inside the case has anything to with cooling. Yes, I agree, it's a flow issue and even a slight positive pressure will keep the dust out, providing the intake is filtered.
@@midi510 I'm talking about heat transfer due to increased airflow as a result of maximizing the amount of possible airflow by having a slight posative pressure, you're talking about air temperature change across a pressure drop. I'm saying the pressue increase is enough for the added air to noticeably increase cooling via heat transfer, but not enough to drastically effect pressure related air molecule exitement and any drop in energy will be minor at the pressure differentials we are talking about, you were the one who brought that bit up. You have to drop the pressure by 2 bar to drop 1 deg C. The effect is negligible in the type of system we are discussing as we will not even start aproaching these changes in pressure. If we take slightly posative pressure as max airflow, any reduction in pressure is just less air moving through the case as all you're essentually doing, given a fixed exit fan on max, is reducing the input fan speed. If we completely turn off the input fan and leave the output on full, if you're lucky and have amazing fans and an airtight case you'll get close to 2 bar (and I'm being way overly generous in that, that's nearly a 30psi drop: a high performance turbocharger on full capasity as an output fan), you will get 1deg c lower (air) temp because of pressure drop across the stationary input fans, but gain 10-30 deg c (of component temp) because of lack of airflow (although if we did have a turbo as the output, we might actually get enough airfow lol, but I'm only going to bolster your argument so far). The two differant scales of change in temp we are discussing are uncomparable (and refering to the temps of two diferant things) and clearly pressure drop air temp changes do not make up for a lack of airflow (aka less air molecules moving through the case for heat to transfer to) and can't counteract overheating componants in a computor case with normal high performance PC fans . Make sense now?
People who think: "PC's are unstable!" bollocks... been using computer on windows 7 that was on heavy use and on 24/7... it was rock solid and crashed basically never. And now been running windows 10 for few years and this is solid as can be. on 24/7 as well... I've no complaints at all. There are many things that can cause one's PC to be unstable, but they're mostly hardware issues or user errors or bad drivers, which can all be circumvented quite easily. RME fireface 800, Nvidia 3060 with studio drivers, AMD 3600 (to be updated soon) and Asus Pro-art x570 motherboard and 32gigs of kingston 3600 c16 ram... been stable as a rock. No complaints.
@@Skrenja are you honestly implying that MACs NEVER EVER EVER crash or have any bugs? :D If I've had 5-10 crashes in the last 10+ years on a PC... is that not good enough? That I can trust my setup to be on and usable 24/7/365 without worrying apps or the computer itself crashing, unless it's a hardware issue where some physical part is broken? All issues I've had were about bad driver update for GPU, which was solved by rolling back within 10 minutes, broken SATA-cable, which was diagnosed within 15 minutes and swapped within 10 minutes. broken hard disk which was obviously backed up so I could just throw it away and keep on chugging, one memory module that needed to be re-seated since there was too much dust in the connector when I installed it (and this was MY mistake, one shoudl always blow the connectors with compressed air before installing anything). That was diagnosed in few minutes by looking at the event viewer etc. One windows update which was rolled back and I was again stable for years... And between these events there's been YEARS before anything else happened... So I ask you, how stable is stable enough and are you claiming that apple computers have better track record and never crash or break on you or have any flaky issues what so ever? I wonder if you've ever watched Louis Rossmann channel and how god damn many apple computers is constantly coming over to his bench to be repaired for basic issues that apple should have fixed by better engineering... There's no such thing as "perfect" and I think i'm as close to perfect as realistically possible.
Gotta love Dan's pragmatism. Pick whatever tools get out of your way so you can get stuff done :) I'm a full time software developer and have used Linux as my main desktop PC for around a decade, but have done very little music production on it because the audio stack is a total mess. I've talked to a few folks who've gotten low-latency audio working with pipewire, but in my experience it's always busted in some way on my machines. I do most of my audio production on a Mac, but have also run afoul of Apple's deprecation of "old" but perfectly functional hardware (RIP my 2012 iMac 😢). These days I use a 2013 Mac Pro trashcan I found on ebay for a couple hundred bucks which runs macOS 12. I figure it should be supported for at least another 5 years or so. It's not like computers are getting that much faster anymore, so old hardware can be sufficient for a long time.
your videos are endlessy entertaining. that said, i've used Mac for more than 20 years, i'm the computer version of "i just want to drive to the shops", and never had any problem. i don't understand anything you're talking about in the part where you go on about installing drivers and stuff, i just want to turn it on and start to create (i am a video editor and a musician since the end of last century), and i want to only think about the creative stuff. so i guess mac is designed for people like me, i say this with no pride or shame, just facts.
Tbf if people are willing to pay a price premium to not do driver setup for the interface -let them, it's their money. Also I know people who literally just love the gui of their fav os and that's fully valid.
I've been an opinionated Unix dev for 12 years, but I admit that Windows is incredible for general computing needs: running ancient software, compatibility, easy end-user experience, etc. I never fault anyone for using Windows, and I enjoy it for my music production. I've built custom PCs ever since I was a little kid. My music PC is 9 years old, I've saved thousands over the years. I upgraded my NIC, RAM, Graphics card, and drives. I've replaced a bad SSD (save/automate your backups!), broken CPU cooler, and a failed DIMM. I will keep using that fat bastard until Windows 10 is EOL, but I haven't decided what to do afterward, yet. An OS is just a tool. PC Gaming: obviously Windows. Music production: obviously Windows or macOS. However, I'd never choose Windows or macOS to run a server over Linux or BSD. For example: Netflix pushes 800 Gb/s of TLS-encrypted video out of a single FreeBSD server, and that kind of bandwidth is simply impossible to accomplish on Windows. At the same time, I'd never use Linux for music production, Windows and macOS is just better for music, and I'd just spend too much time fighting Linux and music production is supposed to be my escape from Unix/Linux anyway. My only legitimate criticism with Windows is that I have absolutely zero interest in "AI", ads, and spying crap that Microsoft does. Apple does it too, but not nearly to the same extent. That's the only thing that may push me towards Apple when it comes time to upgrade. Hopefully there’s still a way to disable all of that junk with a professional edition of Windows 12 (or whatever's coming), but who knows. I don't have to worry about it for a couple of years anyway. Some people aren't bothered by these features and may even find them useful, but I value my privacy more than most do and I want to run the cleanest slate possible. I always free up resources and kill background processes and remove stuff that I never use.
WIndows NT isn't necessarily 'worse' or 'better' than Mach or BSD or Linux, just different Asynchronous I/O or COM for example _is_ a legitimate way to do things that UNIX doesn't replicate, for example. Or ACLs and security features that are first-class in Windows but second class in all Unices, including MacOSX
@@supercellex4D exactly 👍 I personally am more comfortable with one philosophy and would prefer that, but it doesn’t mean that Windows is a wrong choice in all situations in the server space either. Centralized ACL and identity is obviously far better in the Microsoft space. These are just all tools.
Yep, agree, all OSes have their advantages and deficits. I’ve worked professionally with (early MacOS), Windows, Solaris and Linux. On servers, I very much prefer Linux, but not as a Desktop, and not for Music making, then I use windows. MacOs would be fine, too, (but I am not willing to pay a premium for less connectivity, and Apple’s prices for RAM and SSD upgrades are just highway robbery. The form factor is nice, though.)
I'm doing something similar, even though I'm on a Mac. I'm using the Mac Pro Rack 2019 (Intel). I leave it off the internet, and I will not be updating the OS or Pro Tools, because everything works great. I might even leave it like this forever.
As a computer-guy - I think your take is pretty much spot on. There is no "best" OS - it always depends on use-cases. For development, testing and running server-side business applications, Linux has definite advantages I wouldn't to live without. For private, general use - there are drawbacks. And for business-cases using desktop applications, it's never really been competitive. I personally strongly prefer not to be locked into a single-vendor ecosystem and to have backward-compatibility, which is why I use Windows with integrated WSL for doing Linux-stuff. But there are many use-cases where Macs are perfectly fine, and in general, they usually offer better usability to less tech-savvy users. To me, that would still not be worth locking yourself into their ecosystem and paying the "premium brand" cost for similar performance... but I naturally respect when others prefer having the level of cross-device integration that is possible with a single-vendor ecosystem.
I worked in IT and always had PC’s usually built by me. However when my kids started to use a computer, I got totally sick of constantly having to fix the PC. It was then that I bought a Mac for the kids, and no more PC support at home. Macs are closed proprietary systems, have less apps available for them and generally less tweaking and customisation is available. I switched to a Mac for studio use and haven’t looked back. The computer just works, is a tool for the job. There is a premium to be paid for macs and the inability to upgrade hardware (ssd, memory) is a disadvantage. In the end use what you’re comfortable with, turn off automatic software updates, and make music.
"However when my kids started to use a computer, I got totally sick of constantly having to fix the PC. It was then that I bought a Mac for the kids, and no more PC support at home. " well there's your problem, it's your kids using it because they dont have any knowledge at all. you can pretty much do the same thing with windows like locking the admins and kernel so kids cannot install a super malicious software anyway. I switched from windows to mac once and have looked back to windows and now im back because I do 3DCG stuff while doing music. and barely I got any problem, and I havent got any bluescreen since windows 7, it's so stable now a days that there's really no way you can break it unless you're installing a software from the wildwild west of internet land...
@@yasunakaikumi. This was the kids pc. XP at the time. I don’t want to have to do PC admin on my music pc. I don’t want to do any admin really. I want it just to work and use it as a tool for making music. I am sure a quality built PC, configured and optimised for audio would be a great machine too. So it all boils down to what you’re familiar with and your budget.
Core Audio is a very good implementation of a complete audio stack, which Windows completely lacks. Not sure if Microsoft has fixed the bug, but if the sample rate of the OS and Asio do not match, and you have Windows audio output and DAW output set to the same device, and you get a notification sound from Windows, it will cause a BSOD. This has been in Windows for years. The ability to have different sample rates for the same device just invites disaster. Sure, it is "bad" for consumers that Apple deprecates old hardware and software, but on the other hand it gives them the opportunity to innovate on both. Microsoft's problem is that they have had to support everything for the last 20 years. With Windows 11 this has changed. I bet you have been running your system unsupported because Windows 11 is only compatible with CPU's from the last 6 years. Windows is also forced to go this way because the switch to ARM is only a matter of time, even for Windows users. We will see how Microsoft deals with this. Nobody wants a notebook or PC with half the performance in the long run. I've been in the IT industry for over 15 years, running and supporting Windows and Windows Server on a daily basis. With the performance/watt we are seeing with ARM, we are in for a big change. And this is not just Apple, all the cloud providers are increasing their cloud/data centre ARM capacity on a massive scale because the watt/performance is so much better.
Why would you need windows system audio in the studio? Just use ASIO or WASAPI Exlusive with your i/o interface? I can't say I've seen a BSOD for maybe a decade when running my DAW that wasn't my own stupid fault.
I remember seeing Carillon ads in Future Music magazine. I never actually pulled the trigger, but it did inspire me to build one version of my pc into a rack mounted case. As my storage needs increased and I was using my pc for more and more tasks, not just audio, I outgrew that box - I’m happy to hear they are still on the go and making real engineers happy Best of luck with it Dan!
The only downside with Windows compared the Mac is the lack of aggregate IO. Yes you can use ASIO4ALl but its fiddly and inconsistent. I bought a iConnectivity box that would allow me to control ipad softsynths AND transmit the audio over the lightning cable. It works but its useless for Windows DAW as i have to disconnect my interface.
PC guy here. Pretty high IT knowledge. I still prefer PC's as they are just better value for money. I've worked on Macs for 10+ years (studios) and my PC (my studio work) - W10 is a workhorse, no problems at all. OSX is just more convinient, looks nice and "it works". On PC it used to be more complex - but since W10 - it works too. Drivers thing is a not a problem. I don't mind, or even care - I have z e r o issues since W10. W7 was OK too, yet it had issues. So if Logic or PT - then Mac. If Studio One (like me) - whatever you know better. I choose PC.
Rack mount hardware can be harder to cool, and thus louder. Lots of it is aimed at servers where noise isn't a concern. But it's good to hear your pc is fine :).
@@RC-1290 Yeah, I've got a similar huge Noctua and the CPU is basically silently cooled, even under load. Couple that with SSDs and a similarly silent PSU, and most audio users won't hear a thing.
Hope you're well Dan! Always found this pc/mac war a bit funny to just watch from a distance. It all comes down to personal preferences, both sides have their pro's and con's. For me the fact an OS update gets forced with a reboot on windows is already reason enough to stick with mac's, that's how much it annoys me :p (I won't mention my other million reasons :p) The transition from X86 to ARM will be interesting to follow on windows though; apple forced this 'early' and on mac we passed the first 'learning pains'. All works fine and stable here. Your next computer however, will probably be an ARM; so it is interesting to see how this evolves!
@@udderhippo Didn't knew this! My old colleagues, working with 3D software, would really want to know this xD But I also made this point to show that sometimes a personal reason for something can sound totally crazy to someone else.
I've been using self built PCs as DAWs since starting in 1998. Windows 2000 + Cubase proved to be an extremely stable setup and i was very reluctant to move to XP. Had to eventually, but a new system with Windows 7 eventually replaced it and kept going for a long time. Macs have never been a consideration for me because i see no additional benefit. Keeping it simple, installing as little software as possible, Windows can be extremely reliable for audio work. But looking at the direction MS has been going in with 11 and 12 ... I may finally try getting Ableton to work on Ubuntu...
very happy with m1 macbook air, today marks my first year with it. I would probably chosen a windows laptop if such combination of cpu power, battery life and dead silent operation existed in pc world, but it doesn't. It's my main studio machine and it allows working for hours in case of a power outage or blackout.
A 13700KF with lots of cache on a single die, Windows 11 to accompany the CPU architecture, 32 Gigs of RAM to fit them soundbanks, SSDs to do it quickly, and probably the best GPU option, not too expensive but with plenty of horsepower to run a DAW, or to record or encode a few videos. That's a good prebuild, very well suited for the job.
I have a 12700K, no graphics card. I heared that graphics cards add more fan noise and hurts the noise floor for the analog audio outputs. I selected the components myself plus the PC case and then people built the entire tower for me. I have some advantages over Dan Worral's PC: i7-12700K has better perfomance per watt than the 13700KF, easier to cool, i have a higher end motherboard with more storage upgrade options. If i own a graphics card, would be for gaming reasons, for music production is totally useless.
Probably they gave the PC only for the video. 😉 The components are damn cheap, only the CPU must be a 13700K. Mainboard is a Gigabyte m-ATX DS3H with DDR4 or DDR5. I did a config and came hardly over 900$ with 64GB DDR4 Ram and 2TB Crucial P3 M.2 SSD. The cooler is a Noctua NH-C14S, which could be smart choice, as it replaces the missing VRM-Cooler on top of the board. Power is a bequiet CM 500W or similar, nothing special, but rather silent. The good news: This System beats a M1 Pro 10 Core, which is the best M1/2/3 Apple Silicon for audio. It is the only(!) with 8 Performance cores. Later models only have 6. Good cheap build, congratulations!
6:22 I'm in this Rabbit Hole since months now, i've abandoned Logic and went into cubase along a Steinberg interfase, now i feel sry about all the people mixing using DAWS based on CoreAudio (Audible Jitter) while only few people are aware of this, they even win Grammys for god sake, the sound industry is obliterating the PCM capabilities in exchange of a Fancy Bloated Audio Marketing. Now is when ASIO and HDX make sense to me, even UAD Interfases are porting this CoreAudio PassThrough Parafernalia in LUNA. Macs don't look so PRO anymore. If you don't care is your loss but everyone should now this is an Issue. . CoreAudio SRC Hog Mode, Exclusive Mode, Integer Mode, Direct Mode, Jitter, BitPerfect, Passthrough, ASIO over CoreAudio. . Thanks for your video.
Not looking for trouble, but for accuracy: the Mac operating system dropped "OS X" in 2016 for "macOS". Also OS X referred to system 10, and currently the Mac architecture is system 14.
with 40 years plus corporate private and general IT experience I know a thing or two about computers. I laugh nowadays when people tell me they bought a custom PC cos I know the spec is basically off the shelf parts UNLESS its a corporate system like HP/Dell with on board remote "insight" management for engineers to tinker with from their desk. As for a rack system, it should be on rails so no need to take it out of the rack or remove any cables just pull forwards open top and your inside. Todays modern computers are no different to one thats 15 years old the still have the same basic parts NOTHING is new just evolution no revolution. More of the same is the general rule of thumb. My old HP Z600/800 boxes are still seriously capable machines offering upto 12 cores and 128Gb Ram but compared to my newer 5600x sat in a Asus ProArt Creator Motherboard with 6Gb Ram 2xNVME and 14Tb drives, it would appear worlds apart? Sata 6Gb is no match against PCIex4/5 and DDR3r is no competition to DDR4/5 but serisouly the only difference is loading time, they both are capable of running my DAW and as much as I wish to throw at them with ease. Good to hear your in good spirits Dan hope your health continues to improve x
as a big brained comptuer guy, nothing is fundamentally better than anything else. i will use linux for server stuff and for obscure hacking software that noone bothers making buildable on windows. i will do anything else on windows. recent years of windows 10 and windows 11, when microsoft is trying to smuggle always-online adware bullshit anywhere IS annoying me and making me consider linux, but never mac. mac is like a linux with safety doors everywhere. if i want to utterly destroy my system with mindless experimenting, nobody should prevent me from doing that.
I like Mac but Apple are living in a dream world if they think it's reasonable to charge £100 per additional USB3 port and over 200% mark-up on RAM and SSD etc. They look nice but it really is an IQ test. At this point it's safe to assume that Microsoft will never fix the Windows 95 inside of Windows 7, inside of Windows 8, inside of Windows 10 UI terror but if the system is stable you're only looking at the apps.
Longtime Linux user freak here. I have to work with windows and OSX at work (and dont like any of it). I go like this: every OS sucks. I am totally on board with "own your os to own your pc", but... yes, linux is rapidly closig the distance to being a viable alternative for MOST PEOPLE. Bitwig for example runs really nicely. But we are not finally there yet. And whatever works for you, works for you, and thats what matters. I just had several issues on windows, where some things were installed/changed/whatever without my consent. And i had that on Android, too. I cannot stand that. It feels like someone suddenly appearing in my sleeping room at night. So, i have to go the extra miles and use alternatives (e.g. Manjaro and GrapheneOS at the moment). Not perfect by any means, but well enough to see that i cannot blame the OS for not getting anything musical done. :) Long Live The New Machine. Strum on, Dan.
I switched to a MacBook Air M1 2 years ago and run Logic Audio after years using a PC running Cubase. Switching to the MacBook was the best thing I ever did. It works for me and that’s what’s really important.
Apple Silicon is especially a big boost for a laptop - your Air is faster (for audio things, not GPU) than any Intel laptop they ever made and faster than most desktops. And there is no fan, totally silent and great battery life. Of course there is no internal upgradability, but then laptops are often increasingly this way anyway.
@@darwiniandude All true. I don't need to upgrade to be honest. I have a 512 GB hard drive and 8gb ram. I also have an external 1tb hard drive. It's by far the best set up I've had for recording.
In “keyboard” in system settings/preferences you can swap the modifiers around if you want. Like you can swap command and control so undo cut copy paste are all control z, control x, control c etc rather than command. But you can also re-map any shortcuts there, or make new shortcuts for any menu item in any programs. Safari has a ‘merge windows’ function - no shortcut. I created one, control command M. So if your daw of choice has a menu item with no shortcut, you can assign one, which is cool. @@dabadoo7631
I switched to Mac from Windows just because the new MacBook Pro M2 Pro allows me to be extremely mobile, plugin anywhere and at any time. But if my job didn't require me to travel a lot, I'd probably go for windows again. Just because of the sheer versatility PC can give you.
The fact that Apple controls the hardware and doesn't have to make their software work with all sorts of different setups is actually quite a drawback. It allows them to take shortcuts, yes, and these can result in better performance in specific cases, but these shortcuts also introduce technical debts. Ever growing special cases, which have to be taken into account by newer developments of hardware and software, introduce bugs. A system that is made to work with very differing setups HAS TO make sure any interfaces between the parts is as rigidly defined as possible, which makes development easier and connecting them more reliable, but possibly slower. In my personal experience, my Macs (which I don't tinker with, I use them mostly with apple software to develop ios apps) crash a LOT more than even my severely overclocked and heavily tinkered with PCs. As for Linux, to me that's just a command line operating system. Apart from android, the GUI experience in Linux feels lackluster and not well thought through to me.
Its so frustrating that macos has terrible application support because its stability is something i adore, its been so much more consistent than windows ever has for me but i can run barely anything on it or customize my rig down the line and its so frustrating, they have a great operating system thats so close to being perfect to me but they never go the extra mile to make that a reality. One thing i will give them though is their computers last long minus the application support issues, ive recorded back in college using a 2009 mac pro and minus it chugging a slight bit in performance (which is a given) it was completely fine for multitracking most of the time which was all i really needed to use it for. As much as i dislike windows in many areas its probably sticking around on any desktop i have, though for traveling i dont plan on ever using a windows laptop again as a side note, ive seen a rack mount mac mini recently which was quite strange
I've largely got around this by building a hackintosh that multiboots OS's, including, as needed, various versions of OSX or MacOS, as well as Windows. With a decent firewall and safe internet habits there's no problem running even very old versions of OSX on reasonably modern Intel hardware. Nobody would do it without needing to, but as I have audio projects on Mac going back two decades as well as some VERY nice outboard audio gear I'm not about to scrap on the whim of Apple, I get a lot of satisfaction from being independent.
I use a Mac, but I'm forced to upgrade my OS to use new plugins, which forces me to upgrade older plugins I use, to even work. But Waves, for instance, then forces me to buy those same plugins, which are literally exactly the same functionality wise, again. I really really hate that.
I think OS choice has a lot to do with personal sense of style. I find the way Windows is designed extremely illogical and confusing, where Unix based OSes generally have menu items and buttons placed in a way that just makes sense. Windows by its nature has always built on top of previous versions, so it carries a lot of inefficiencies from past mistakes but has backwards compatibility and tends to be more familiar if you’ve used Windows for a while. Microsoft products also have strange and inexplicable errors constantly (something you definitely see more of if you work in corporate IT), and their support and documentation is so bad that many of the support links BUILT IN to the operating system are broken. Most of the ‘guards’ Mac put in place protect from these kind of errors, and can be bypassed fairly easily if you want to.
My dream is to be able to switch to linux, for a variety of reasons. Maybe sometime in the not too distant future, more manufacturers would start offering and supporting native linux versions of their plugins and/or drivers. Alas, one can dream...
pc and linux are just superior to mac in every way, and dont even get me started on apply. who wants to have to buy every product they own from a single company? its like monolopy is baked into their business model. fuck apply. even if mac were superior i would oppose using it simply because of how absolutely shitty apples business model is
If i could harvest the energy of people trying to convince each other that what they use is the best i could achieve intergalactic travel. Well i guess one can dream
Apples business practices and terrible tech support are another 2 major reasons for me to stay with PC's. I have had apple enterprise support screw up one of the schools mac servers we had doing our iCart MacBook back ups. This wasn't a quick 15 minutes oops sorry we'll fix / replace it type call, it was an all day tier 2 then tier 3 tech support call for what should have been a simple server name change. Yup we just needed to change the name of the server and they managed to wipe the entire server and told us oops I guess that's just what you have to do. All backups, gone all other data, gone. We ended up just abandoning the server and phased out all apple products in the district sans a few special services iPads that apple does everything in their power to render useless in an enterprise environment. Apple car, got a flat tire? You now need to replaced the engine or just buy a new car but either way Apple keeps everything inside your vehicle including children.
Logic is way better than any other daw from all perspective. In mac you can aggravate your auidio inputs, while in windows you need to install buggy Asio4all which is not stable at all. And in mac with so called Class A devices, you don’t need mess with drivers. Also unix like os is definitely better than windows. Mac and others will not decide to install updates when you work or in tracking process. Along with all said, new apple cpus are better than intel or amd.
I've been in IT from 1983 when I worked for one of the first micro PC companies in the UK (CP/M). I've seen every version of DOS, Windows, and OS/2. Also many version of Unix, Linux and lots of big iron systems. The old issue with Windows was the backward compatibility which has now very much been reduced. Now retired I still prefer a PC with Windows.
This kind of comparison is really only useful coming from someone who has used both Windows and Apple systems within the last few years. If you have not recently used both systems your comparison points will just be random things you thought of, not the actual differences of using two modern systems.
I'm not entirely an Apple virgin. I've done lots of tracking in Mac equipped studios. Honestly, once you're in the DAW there's little difference. Especially if they let me use Reaper! It's just some annoyingly different keyboard modifiers really. I would only notice the difference when I had to copy my files to an external drive at the end of the session. And that's kind of my point really, they're both valid choices, and I'm happy enough with the choice I made not to jump ship.
@@DanWorrall Fair enough! I certainly agree that the keyboard shortcuts are the most annoying thing about switching systems. :) I recently switched from PC to Mac because I needed a quiet powerful laptop that I could take between two studios. Now, having a lot of experience on both, I like both PC and Mac for different reasons. If you need a laptop, a Mac is way better, if not, then it’s complicated.
This is a great video and I don't mind the collaboration with Carillion, but I agree that it should had been disclosed at the start of the video instead of 8 minutes in.
I like and respect the choice to use a Noctua fan on the new machine's CPU cooler. Noctua is the best in the biz for performance per db cooling. I am a little weirded out by the choice of a kf series CPU (f meaning lacking integrated graphics and k meaning overclockable) paired with the choice of a discrete Nvidia 3050. I get that later 30 series cards are a little chonky and eat more power, but I would've expected a 3060. The 50 series cards really just... Don't fare so well in price/performance. I'd also expect for the extra $30 that a production-use system would have the non-f variant 13700k CPU to ensure that even if something did go wrong with the dedicated graphics, there was at least a backup with the CPU's integrated graphics so you could still get a display out. That being said the 13700k is definitely a monster, although I might've liked to have seen an AMD CPU with their recent chips being absolutely monstrous for multi core capable workloads like mixing and producing. Regardless, congrats on the pseudo partnership for this video and I'm glad to see you have a great new system back in action!
I'm not up to date with all that stuff, especially the graphics cards, and didn't really want to do the research this time. So I told the Carillon team what I needed it to do, they spec'ed this out for me, and sure enough it's killing it so far :)
Built my own PC for over 30 years , one for work one for games, but it didn’t stop me buying and using a Mac for music 15 years ago, both are equally good, for me however having used both for so long I think I have to say the Mac OS has been by far the better for music production irrespective of hardware. That’s not a PC version Mac thing, that debate is pointless to me, & I love my PC builds mind you it’s now laughable that my Mac Studio Ultra can be cheaper than my gaming PC . If you’ve only ever used a PC how would you know one is better than the other.
One thing the newer Apple silicon macs are great for is the fact that they make ZERO noise. I love my M2 mini for that reason and also how powerful it is. However, if Logic was on Windows, I would 100% be using my PC for everything.
The early 2000's THIS (Carillon)was the thing to have for in the box DAW-production. Boy, I wanted and needed 1 sooo bad. Then MultiThread came out and duo core became less expensive, fun times.
Do you like your OS updating itself whenever it feels like? Do you like having to download and replace drivers? Do you like being the target of thousands and thousands of viruses? Do you like a counterintuitive interface? Do you like an OS that's the interface version of brutalism architecture? Do you hate elegance? Do you like rolling the dice every time you build a PC/add peripherals cuz they may not place nice? Do you have waaaay too much free time to deal with all the extra crap you have to do to keep a PC running? Or do you have a team of computer support people to do it all for you? Do you like spending more money than you would on a Mac in order to add on everything to make it the equivalent of a Mac? Do you like running a system that is not nearly as reliable as a Mac because you don't want to spend time with your family so you can use fixing your computer as an excuse? If you answer "yes" to any of these questions, then congrats! You're a prime victim to become a Windows user! In my decades in the business, I have NEVER seen a professional studio or post facility here in Los Angeles that used a Windows machine. Never. The main reason: reliability. No computer is perfect, but if you value your time at great then zero dollars per hour, then why waste it on an inefficient, not-as-reliable and also ugly computing system? (Note: I have built dozens of PCs from scratch. For gaming. I know them all too well. I'd never use one for work!)
there's an argument that mac fans have that i have always found silly, "osx has better editing software" what software? photoshop? ableton? all of them are cross platform lol, whenever i tell them that they will say things like "the same software runs better on mac", i could go on forever and they will always have am excuse to justify the usability of an apple machine, even if they dislike apple themselves, nothing beats a high end windows pc looks like, as much as i try to give linux opportunities i always end up coming back to windows
As a devout linux user.... I still use windows for my audio tasks Reaper works great, and open source VSTs are great, but not having fabfilter, melodyne, as well as kontakt is just a deal breaker for me. linvst or yabridge works well for my other vsts, but those 3 that I need most keeps bugging out for me (Ideally it wouldn't even be needed). Also my digital piano works less than half the time on linux. Sadly third party support is just important for most audio engineering task, and that's exactly the biggest thing lacking in linux. maybe if the fabfilter, celemony, or NI team would support linux, it would be more feasible, but I don't see it happening without their contribution.
Apple is overrated and overpriced imo. You can build a much more powerful system for a lot less money than you would pay for an Apple. Also you could just run a virtual machine on it and run OSX on it and have the best of both worlds.
The main reason why people buy Macs for audioproduction is that they always did... and their customers, that they have to excange project files with, also did. But as you are saying, there is no real technical reason to do so. My threadripper based workstation outperformes the s*** out of the Mac Pro, for a fraction of the price. For the same reasons as you, I 'm thinking about switching to linux. Reaper works perfecly fine in linux. But there are hardly any linux versions of VST plugins out there. All the options like using wine to make Windows VSTs run in linux are not a real pro solution. But unfortunatly the pluginmakers have no intrest at all to compile a linox version of their plugins even though that shouldn't be much of a problem. Give me a linux version of the fabfilter pro bundle, melodyne and AmpliTube and i will dump windows
I love PCs for video stuff (graphics cards are just so much more powerful on PC these days) and macs for audio. The main reason for Mac for audio for me is that you can link up multiple interfaces with it and have them all work at the same time. Not something I’d use all the time, but there have been a few times it was useful. Also low latency core audio comes in handy for things like streaming (though tbh it’s better on a pc overall). On a PC the built in MME and similar drivers are just so high latency and not every application allows for ASIO drivers. Same goes for certain interfaces. Granted if you have RME it’s the top of the line for PC and all, but some interfaces are also more buggy on PC, so you may be more limited. If you are having a pro studio most of the time the PC is stable enough, but i find that the Mac is slightly better in certain situations. My last two computers (one Mac one pc at the same time) lasted over 10 years each. I also recommend most people get a PC desktop over a Mac desktop. Just more customizable and more power potential long term. Mac laptops are just top notch though. All that being said i know a few people who installed Mac OS onto a PC (hackintosh it is called) and it was like the best of both worlds. Also i am surprised you went with a 3050 graphics card when you do video editing. A 4060 or something more modern would have sped up your video editing workflow/render time a LOT. But I assume whatever you had before was much slower so it’s a huge improvement. Anyway enjoy the new pC!
@@cfs truth in a sense. I can copy text on my phone, and paste on my desktop or tablet, or vice versa. I can airdrop pictures and files to and fro. I can’t do that on windows. My Mac mini makes almost zero noise. A pc with equal power will make more noise. Lastly, less power used means money saved.
them carillon PC's were brilliant. I have been a Mac user. I love Logic & have been using it since V2. I can't stand abelton. Cuebase altho in function seems great I don't like how it goes about it.. the only option I would consider moving to would be Bigwig, I work a lot with Midi... EDM. I have looked at Reaper & for sound design I think I will get it. but as my daily DAW I just love Logic. I"m no pro, I make music & sounds for me because I love the process, I enjoy making sounds! My M1 Mac mini is incredible for what it is. & the fact its so much cheaper than My PC by 3x what it can do for that price is astonishing.. Maybe in a year or 2 when I feel I need I will Maybe switch to Music making on the PC. who knows If I out grow this Chip.. All the Best out there
Thank you for this video and dealing with Mac-snobbery. Don't get me wrong, if you want one - buy one, if you want it and have money, but I wonder how many young musicians and audio engineers wasted so much money on Macs, as "society" told them they have to, as this is a requirement for pros. While they could buy the same computer (power-wise) for fraction of the price and use spare money on software or instruments, that could actually improve their craft... I'm a professional media composer, writing mostly orchestral and electro music. Two months ago I, too, had to buy a new computer, as my older one started to struggle with evergrowing orchestral template. I contemplated if I should go Mac or PC and it quickly boiled down to just this one thing - price. For around 2300$ I bought myself custom built PC: 12-core CPU, 192GB RAM, 3TB NVME SSDs + 4TB SATA SSDs, decent motherboard, decent graphics (RX6600) for very occasional video editing and gaming, very good half-passive PSU, enormous CPU cooler for quiet operation and great looking sound-dampened tower case. I assembled it myself, but if I wanted, the shop would do it for me for additional 100$. The only difference was form factor, as Mac Studio is much smaller, but who cares, if it's going to sit in my studio, under my desk, for years? And Studio doesn't have PCIe slots, that I use for my RME HDSPe card, that has the best latency and performance out of all interfaces I have ever had. And how much a similarily specd Mac Studio would cost me? 10 000$... This is insane. I get is, Studio is smaller and sexier looking, but 4 TIMES THE PRICE?! Why oh why would I do this to myself? Not to mention - new PC, on Windows 11/Cubase 13, is ROCK SOLID. Like truly rock solid, no freezes or major crashes so far. And it's dead quiet, too.
As alluded to in the video, the 'Mac is better' thing is a hangover from the days of Windows 95/98 and has stuck, like a lot of myths. I say if you have the money, get whatever you want. Macs look cool, are built well and work well, but they just happen to cost a stupid amount of money for what you get and are equally expensive to upgrade.
Nobody talking about heat? My silicon Mac literally sits there and the fan never comes on. It’s crazy. My old Intel rig would literally heat up the room in a crazy mock-up.
Less important in a big desktop case. But yes, power and heat are downsides for PCs. In a laptop you pretty much cannot get a PC which will stay silent under extended high performance. Apple Silicon is crazy good in that respect.
I've used an i7 4790S desktop for years, never heard the fan spinning even under 40⁰C. My Ryzen5 works the same, most of the time it's consuming less than 20W... But of course, my old Dual X5690 Mac Pro 5.1 or better the X5365 Mac Pro 2.1 worked fine as heaters... Nothing compared with my Xeon E5-2690V3 that being a server never lowered fans under 38dB even while working @ 10⁰C...
I grew up with IBM at first, then Windows 3.1 and continuing on to this day. I’m on my fourth and my first laptop and it runs Windows 11. Aside from the occasional hiccup here and there, I’ve more than managed, and this should be a big takeaway: can you turn a problem into a non-problem? What I mean is: are you going to let a problem remain an obstacle or you find some other means of doing what you need to do in order to keep going. Audio engineers are a stubborn bunch and that’s both positive and negative. The positives should be obvious. The negative comes into play when the reasoning behind said stubbornness is in doubt, even faulty. Take the “PC v Mac” for an example. The assertion of “Mac is better for music production” may have had some considerable merit back when I was a kid/teenager. But both Mac and PC have changed significantly in the 30-odd years or so. Now it’s at the point where there’s no real advantage one way or the other and it’s merely a matter of personal preference and experience. But we know that there are those who still think we are back in 1994 and will act accordingly. It also reinforces the point that it’s not the tools, it’s who’s using it. I’m sure a professional producer-engineer can make pretty good using an antiquated system over someone who just got latest, snazziest and mostly like expensive system but doesn’t have a clue how to use it. Thankfully, ignorance can be temporary and if you have the will and persistence to perpetually educate yourself, you will get there. And I thank people like you Dan for helping the rest of us understand what we do better. Cheers to the new system and Godspeed. Thanks for reading.
I've been into music more or less as long as Dan, I figure. Always made music on a Windows PC. I know the OS very well and maybe more important, I build my PC's my self (rack mounted). The last one 1.5 years ago. With an RME babyface uc and Reaper as a DAW it is rock solid and never failed me once, but kept a lot of money in the pocket compared with Apple. I'll never switch.
As a kid of the 1970s, I can only say that Dan's videos have a calming effect on me, in much the same way that listening to Arthur Lowe narrate The Mister Men did back in the day. Nowt better than speccing a piece of gear and having the proper 'nerds/geeks' that you can trust to do the job properly. Thanks for posting another informative vid Dan. 🤘🤘
I sold my MacIIfx in 1995 after spending 2 years messing with a "Pro" tools version 2 (4 tracks ) that never really worked as intented . The amount of money wasted in this garbage was insane and my thrusty Atari was still the centerpiece of the studio at this time. Then i went to a pentium 1OO mghz with cubase XT and never came back ...
I worked in computers for over 20 years and tried switching to Linux on multiple occasions. My opinion on Linux is that it's a fantastic operating system that misses one core component of what an operating system should do: allow you to operate the computer and its software.
Being a bit of a nerd, I absolutely love that for the last 10 years my home studio PC can multi-boot OSX, Windows and Linux. I use one of those 5.25" bays with one OS per 2.5" SSD and I just eject whichever drives aren't in current use. The PC is rackmounted and on rails so accessing its internals for maintenance is fairly straightforward. I use a second 5.25" bay for my media SSDs and it's proven very solid. I went the hackintosh route when Apple released their ludicrous trashcan, and having been shafted one time too many, swore blind I'd never buy another Apple product around 2013 and haven't. I really value the freedom of not being tied to any single OS and the DAWs that run or don't run on it. My long term, admittedly somewhat optimistic plan, is to shift everything over to Linux. I don't know how much to read into Presonus's recent release of their Studio One DAW as a Linux beta, but I'm hopeful it marks a growing trend. This is simply because there's a huge overlap with the kind of rock solid reliability we want from whatever OS we choose to run a DAW on and the 99.999% uptime demanded by enterrpise Linux users in server space. The fact is that all OS's are just there to serve files and run applications (from the perspective of the end user), and all that distinguishes them is how easy they are for the inexperienced to break. It's actually a bit odd that companies such as Presonus and Avid, who manufacture hardware and develop a DAW, haven't long since taken the step of "owning" the OS as well. I think Valve's Steamdeck may have opened a few corporate eyes as to what's possible with that kind of vertical integration combined with the freedom of not having to pander to the quirks and whims of Apple and Microsoft.
As someone who has used Linux for audio since 2019, your serious options for a distro: - Ubuntu Studio - AV Linux - Fedora Jam Your DAW options: - Reaper [best choice IMHO], Harrison MIxbus, Bitwig, Renoise. Plus of course the provided DAWs such as Ardour. Audio Interface and Microphones: I use a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen and a Rode NT1. Peripherals e.g midi keyboard: I don't use a keyboard. I don't know. A channel like UNFA would be a good place to go to for this. I get a quiet environment with no phone homes, ads etc and I avoid the tech duopoly long end of a leash. I hope that someday you also come to Linux! 🐧
@@musicalneptunian I'm getting a new audio computer together at the moment and so far am really happy with it. Used to use AVLinux but this time just went with Linux Mint. I'm using Ardour and Harrison Mixbus as DAWs. Mint has a low latency kernel option in synaptic and with a click of a button it installs. It's so far been the most hassle free Linux audio setup I've had. I know someone else that uses AVLinux and is doing really good stuff with it (he builds his own microphones and amplifiers so is way ahead of me in that regard). The only time I've booted up a Windows computer in the past 20 years is to use a particular printer that doesn't have software for printing to CDs for Linux.
@@musicalneptunian I use Reaper on Nobara currently. I also own Harrison Mixbus but remain unconvinced that it does anything particularly useful, at least to me. Pipewire with ffado is looking very interesting because I have a lovely old RME FF800 I'd love to get working - just need to set aside some time to learn how to get it set up properly. I don't really doubt that Linux will be the future for most people wanting the freedom to build/upgrade their own PCs on the one hand and people who are sick of M$ telemetry/forced updates/subscription OS models on the other. Presonus getting involved can only help the process. I personally know a bunch of people who've jumped ship from Windows 10 (or at least experimented with Linux) just to side step the whole 'security chip' stuff on 11, with their perfectly adequate older hardware, and doubtless many more will follow if M$ push through on the Windows 12 as a subscription OS idea.
