Question dosnt the deadlift help develop a stronger clean though because obviously if you do a conventional 1000lbs deadlift your not going to clean that but would the clean probably be more developed since your body is used to doing heavier loads?
Personally I think if you’re an athlete during the off season is an amazing time to get a strong deadlift but during the season stay clear as it is very difficult to recover from a heavy deadlift session. If you’re not an athlete and just want to be a stronger dude do it as it’s one of the most functional movements for day to day life
100%.. I was not a deadlifter when I was younger and I paid the price with lower back problems. Embraced them in my 40’s and the difference it has made across many areas is phenomenal and I don’t get back pain anymore… well said mate 👍🏻 Happy New Year
I do deadlifts because I'm an athlete and the lower back and hamstrings are a weak spot. I sued to have lumbar lordosis from a weak low back. Now my back isn't as much of a week spot, and I can stand up straight without thinking about it
@@tanthai3653 they're not more athletic in my eyes at all, they just use different muscles. I use rdl's to warm up and finish off deadlift sessions, but they're not any more athletic. A clean or snatch are more athletic deadlifts, but they don't give me any function for what I want to do. I train for hypertrophy with low rest, often times doing super sets and drop sets to gain weight, with the occasional explosive set here and there. And then I hit the bag or bob at home for 30 minutes. Some days 10*3minute rounds, other days 6*5minute rounds, one day I did 3*10minute rounds with less explosive. I do deadlifts/ rdls to build erectors, a little bit of glutes/ hamstrings, and to get strength up right now it's barely 2* bodyweight. When I just want to work erectors I do some light weight rdl's, but that is a rare occurrence I kind of rambled, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just giving you my point of view
Deadlifting gave me a new type of strength on the mats that I never had before. Most athletes will never get good enough at cleans to make them more effective than deadlifts.
Fr I was always the skinny “quick” wrestler and when I committed to added 150lbs on my DL in the off-season I become the kid who could come out on top of scrambles from pure strength.
I think it really depends on ther athlete. He showed football players, which Icould see modified cleans and snatches probably working better for many of them in season. I don't think there's any doubt the deadlift remains supreme for developing raw strength, but at different points for different athletes there are less risky, potentially more rewarding alternatives.
I tend to agree snatches and cleans are better if the athlete can do them safely but your also looking at a pretty seasoned athlete if they can. Had a super strong and powerful kid on my college football team catch the bar and his knees ran into his elbows on the descent for the catch. Broke his wrist pretty bad.
Dude you don't need to get good. Like... I'm sure i could probably clean anx jerk 160kg if I had been practicing it for years but my 132kg no contact power clean I'm sure indicates a similar level of explosive power as somebody doing more weight more efficiently.
My dad had a stroke and nobody could pick him up to rush him to the hospital. A month earlier i was doing deadlifts and was pulling just 50kg, perfect form. He was about 80-90 kg. But damn straight that i lifted him easily because i was familiarized with the movement. Train Deadlifts fellas, you'll never know when you'll need to lift something or someome off the ground.
Ironically I herniated a disc that eventually required surgery not while deadlifting, but once I started running regularly. But you’re right, once you legitimately mess up your back then you will never feel quite the same again.
Doctor told me i have arthritis in my lower back. She talked about surgery and therapy. Walking was painful. I started to deadlift and i now am living relatively pain free. May not work for eveyone but im glad it does for me.
@@adrielgutierrez5832 I started low on the weights, and gradually I can tell an improvement in strength. I was actually able to move furniture the other day pain free. So starting small is key for me. I can definitely see what the hype is about, it's crazy how much energy you use to deadlift. I can actually feel the muscles around my spine strengthen. I felt soreness there, the good kind of pain, lol.
Herniated L4 in early 2021 and re-bulged it in early 2022. Yeah it doesn't feel quite the same, but it's constantly surprising me, I can deadlift 80% of my best ever for 3x5 no problem and still climbing. One thing that seems to help me is controlled rounding, rounding in the thoracic spine where your back is rib supported and it's safer to do so takes some of the strain off the lower back
Counter argument: while those lifts are better for athleticism, the deadlift works better than those for hypertrophy and for strength. A newbie lacking an appreciable amount of strength and muscle would certainly benefit more from deadlifts than from explosive movements. If your sport benefits a lot from having a STRONGER, not necessarily more explosive but STRONGER posterior chain (an example might be wrestling), deadlifts will do more for you. Athletes with appreciable amounts of muscle relative to their sport who need to build more explosiveness (most advanced athletes) would be better served by the explosive lifts mentioned.
@@nickhinton8888 just FYI, hyperplasia is "the enlargement of an organ or tissue caused by an increase in the reproduction rate of its cells, often as an initial stage in the development of cancer."
@@InvisibleHotdog that’s when referring to cancer cells. When referring to skeletal muscle; hypertrophy is the mitochondria of each muscle cell getting bigger so the muscle itself gets bigger. Hyperplasia is increasing the amount of muscle fibers (similar to how a tumor can grow, only it’s not specifically muscle cells it’s cancerous cells) which makes the muscle stronger but not necessarily bigger
@@nickhinton8888 No, dude. Hypertrophy and hyperplasia both increase the size of muscle cells. Strength is the production of force against an external resistance, a combination of muscle size, neuromuscular efficiency, anthropometry, etc. From the NSCA, "Research over the past 40 years has shown that the predominant mechanism for increasing muscle size is hypertrophy. Hyperplasia in humans may exist but is still very controversial as a major mechanism for increasing the intact size of a muscle (MacDougall et al. 1984; Alway et al. 1989; McCall et al. 1996). If hyperplasia does occur, it likely contributes very little (
They might be, but they're also more sport specific. All athletes assume a risk of injury to certain degrees when training, even if their training is as optimal as can be. And let's face it, there's not much an athlete can do in the gym that's more dangerous than what happens on the field or in their arena of sport.
@Kyl Schwartz I can see a trap bar deadlift helping explosiveness but even that’s not specifically for any particular sport. That’s a general exercise. A snatch is only good for snatching. That’s my opinion
@@eagleeyemind4800 depends if you’re looking for a pump I think 4 sets of 12 with weight around your body weight or lighter, if you have the form down. For power I usually do 3x5 with a little heavier, like 1-2x your bw
Trap Bar Deadlift, especially with proper platforms to make it lower and counteract the raised handles, seems the best option for anyone who wants a strong deadlift but isn't competing for deadlift and wants to avoid injury. The most functional lift for real life and sports outside of a Farmer's Walk - which you can also do with a trap bar : )
Counterpoint: deadlifts are a lot easier to reach and train a newbie lifter to do, while cleans require lots of practice, coordination, and coaching to get right in order to reap their benefits
For sports specific, doing power cleans & power snatches are the way to go. They are less technical to get right & build more strength as your moving the bar through a higher ROM. It’s a different philosophy when approaching the lift; where an Olympic Lifter is trying to be as efficient as possible by getting under the bar quicker with a clean/snatch. A power clean/snatch your trying to be as inefficient as possible pulling through a longer a ROM recruiting more muscle groups + still getting the benefits of explosiveness recruiting more type 2B muscle fibres (just not as much a full clean/snatch)… I also like to add in the 3rd/old Olympic Lift (now dropped) of an OHP to increase upper body strength… Killing two birds with one stone/exercise…
Counterpoint, they really aren't that hard to learn. If you want to be lazy and not teach anything then sure. But athletes spend countless hours working on tiny details of footwork and can't coordinate well enough to execute a clean in a few weeks? Don't buy it.
As a former college athlete. We never did crazy heavy dead lifts. Never even maxed. Was more of a warm up while getting into power cleans and hang cleans
Same in football and baseball. We rarely maxxed, only went like 80% like once every 2 week. We were taught to slowly increase the weight at the 8-10-12 rep range throughout the spring. I think it made us more athletic and WAAY more conditioned. And we had few injuries offseason and in season
@@TokenTupperware Um, where in the world did you hear that a trap bar jump (which is not even a thing, btw. It's pretty basic training knowledge you DO NOT combine weights with plyometrics) is a modification of a clean? With a clean, your feet barely leave the ground - usually not at all, just the heels - that that is the result of the explosive hip thrust. So something like a kettlebell swing would be a BIT more suitable as a supplement. Not a jump. Also, you do realize that there is a drill where you essentially partially clean. You do the clean, but stop and the hip thrust instead of tossing the weight up completely. Olympic lifters use it to practice that specific portion of the lift.
@@robmarsh918 I'm a strength and conditioning coach that works with athletes and I coach with a bias to Olympic weightlifting. I have a master's degree, s and c cert, weightlifting coaching certs. I've coached newbies and professional athletes... now that you know I'm not a dumbass, I'll let you know that you can in fact load plyometrics. Have you not heard of loaded squat jumps? Athletes do them with dumbbells, barbells, and yes, trap bars. It is indeed a thing. Do not insult my intelligence, maybe do some research. A kettlebell swing propulses force horizontally, more akin to a broad jump, it's not applying force vertically in the same way a clean, clean pull, or trap bar jump would. In a clean, you concentrically drive the bar up vertically, momentarily move the feet out to receive the bar, eccentrically lower the weight down, and drive back up out for the squat... Apply this knowledge to a trap bar jump for an athlete unable to perform the clean for whatever reason. Weight loaded beside the legs instead of in front... Concentrically drive the bar up through an explosive jump, eccentrically lower the weight down upon contact, concentrically drive back up to a standing position. Same can be applied to a loaded back squat jump. Dumbbells by your side. Heck even low level plyos like loaded pogos. I bet you'd feel safer if the athlete was band resisted through some plyos because it looks safer, in reality it's all the same concept but eliciting a slightly different training stimulus. Think starting strength, speed strength, strength speed qualities. Also, a medicine ball slam, throw, overhead toss, etc are loaded plyos, loaded sprints are what I'd consider a loaded plyo, band resisted or weight resisted jumps, including multidirectional jumps are loaded plyos. They're a thing. You should learn about them.
@@TokenTupperware This is all solid information, I'll admit. And although I am also experienced with training and coaching, it is not to the degree you are (considering what you are claiming about yourself is true). I admit: I focused only on hip force production in a general sense and completely left out the eccentric and concentric loading portion of the movement. Although I do disagree that the hip thrust in a clean is strictly horizontal, I can grasp what you are saying. As far as loaded plyos, if you want to go into semantics, then yes, I am aware of medicine ball throws and loaded sprints are technically plyos with external resistance. I was referring specifically jumps. I am not a fan of things like loaded barbell squats bc the risk to reward ratio just seems unfavorable. HOWEVER, if we are talking about advanced athletes, then that is very different. I admittedly work with intermediates at best. And training is not my primary profession, nor do I do it much anymore, so I respect expertise in the field. And although I feel like your bias toward Olympic lifting may skew that ratio a bit, I don't have interest in Olympic lifts. So I don't know shit LOL. You got me. I'm so used to people being completely ignorant to training in these comments I dropped my guard. Kudos. OK, then. I have three genuine questions for you: 1) what do you think about this guy saying deadlifts are useless? I have to know. and 2) How do you feel about athletes doing Olympic lifts? Do you feel like the learning curve is worth it? Or does it depend on the athlete's ability to grasp the movement? 3) What is your information (media, site)? I'd like to check you out.
From experience a raw deadlift is the best possible exercise for wrestling and grappling martial arts, good strength in your grip and uncollapsable legs.
Guys this is just an opinion. The deadlift is useful for anyone, athletes included. Just because it may not be the BEST for athletes, doesn't mean it's not good for athletes. Having a strong and explosive posterior chain would definitely qualify as useful for an athlete. He says he prefers clean and snatches, both are great, doesn't mean you can do those AND deadlift. Tired of all these fitness "masters" making these absolute claims, when there's no need for it. Keep an open mind.
With proper training in Olympic lifts the benefits are unreal. Hang cleans/deep squat/push press/snatch took me from an average football player to first team all state. I still use them to this day because they’re functional if I need to be explosive for any reason
I still think that’s translate to jumping better than a slow ass 600 deadlift vs a 225 snatch as the movement can’t be performed show if you wanted too.
@@TheJwalk1234 Strength is athletic or at least a key component of it. A deadlift is maximal hinging strength from picking up an object off the ground. It’s not like a snatch or a deadlift has absolutely no carry over. However, a snatch is more technically complex and thus safely bailing from it is something that an athlete who practices an entirely different sport (let’s say basketball for the sake of what you said about jumping). Why would you program something that is so difficult to do competently that it’s part of seperate weightlifting sport? Instead you could use more specific development movements such as a heavy compound movement, a single leg movement or plyometric exercises.
@@jamesfield6141 I agree with everything you said outside like a true max like grinder. I do plyos with heavy trap bar deads to hopefully get over a 40 inch vertical again but single are at 90% at best. I think grinding( heavy weight ) is counter productive for athletic endeavors
@@TheJwalk1234 It’s hard to know what the difference between a 90% or 100% single unless you get close to either (grinding it out would be necessary for a 100%). So Grinding out reps would only be bad if form was compromised to do so, which would make it unsafe. If you did grind out reps every session you would plateau and gain neither strength or explosiveness long term.
They are just different. Olympic lifts are pretty awesome for what most sports are looking for, with a combination of speed, strength, and flexibility. They aren't mutually exclusive.
All movements have carryover with the correct programming! As long as athletes lift, jump/plyos, and sprint in their training, they are maximizing their athletic potential!
Im not a big deadlifter. I prefer other exercises like RDL, kettlebell swings, reverse hyper extensions, etc. to train my posterior chain. For me, they feel better, more natural, and carry other well to sports. Any time i do deadlift, i go relatively light for higher reps.
I’m just training for muscle development. Deadlifts might not really define any one muscle group all that great, but I’ve seen the difference in my back with and without. That’s all I really care about
Deadlifting is a great exercise bro, its just a different benifit from it than the other exercises you listed. Although those other exercises may help with power more so than the deadlift, the deadlift is a great exercise to make you very strong, theres also many deadlift variations than can help more with hypertrophy which can increase power and strength long term. Just use periodization if you want benifits from all exercises.
In sports explosiveness over top end strength. That being said I dont play any sports and lift just to be strong and healthy and your definitely missing out if thats your goal.
I’m in construction, and workout 5 times a week. My splits are Mon- shoulders Tue- back Wed- chest/triceps and core Thu- biceps Fri- legs Should I be using the deadlift, or should I use an alternative?
Deadlift specifically improved my knockout power as a teenager when i was boxing. Within two months I had a major increase in overall power without exerting (deadliftit was the only new thing incorporated). The only thing correct he says about a deadlift is the set/rep routine he stated at the end.
Cling and jerk add so much compressive force on to the body. Plus much more risk of injury. You are likely throwing a weight over your head at high speed.
Reasonable, nuanced and respectful. Instead of just saying "iT's A bAd LiFt" he explained why it may not be best for this specific use case while still respecting it. It's like hammers for nails. Doesn't make a hammer a bad tool, there's just a better one for this specific case.
I personally don’t understand why ppl hate on the DL for athletes. True it’s not the best lift to promote athleticism but it does increase strength and it can also improve recruitment of testosterone. If you get a sore lower back I’d personally recommend performing slow and controlled light weight Trap Bar DL, RDL, or a Good Morning over an Olympic style lift due to the technique needed to perform a clean/ snatch correctly. I’m not a strength coach tho just based off my thoughts and experiences I’ve gone through myself
Honest question, everything listed is a sub maximal pull and don’t make you stronger but help you express your strength through power, one good deadlift session a week is easy, so why not do them?
Love hate relationship with it. As i got older, i began tweaking my back more when moving the weight. Stiff hamstrings didnt help. I have to lead with good stretching. Also, it has to be the first exercise, because fatigue and deadlifts often = injury for me
You don't have to do deadlift "low reps." You can drop the weight and target failure at 10-15 reps for hypertrophy; this way you are less prone to injury from Oly lifts.
Comparing apples with oranges, deadlifting is done by combat sport athletes for general strength as seen with trainers like Phil Daru , olympic lifts are for explosiveness. The problem with olympic lifts is that they are quite technical and can be dangerous for the regular gym goer.
I think this demonstrates a common misconception about what the goal for an athlete is in the weight room. For an athlete, the deadlift is a superior lift to the power clean for the reason you mention yourself in this video: we can lift heavy weights. The deadlift helps an athlete build strength in the hips, legs, and back. That strength can then later be put to use in the context of the athletes sport in practice. Worrying about making the lifts in the gym “carry over” is a mistake, instead worry about picking lifts that will make you the strongest.
Can you explain how deadlifts don’t “carry over” to sports as well? Unless you’re talking about a sport specific quality, I can’t imagine what separates it from olympic weightlifting movements.
Snatching for sports performance is an absolute waste of time. It requires so much skill and the risk of you getting injured by dropping the bar is also high. It only builds explosiveness in that particular movement so other than snatch it won't really Carry over to other movements in sports
Safer then pulling cold off the floor from an arbitrary bar position, start from the top in a safe position of strength lower to your mid shin an raise. Romanian deadlifts👍
The clean is nothong but a light deadlift which is why it can be done fast. 2 guys with the same explosive ablity the one with the higher deadlift will clean the most.
I've cut them out and switched to hex bar deadlifts. Better risk/reward rational and higher ability to overload and build muscle. Still builds the back and forearms but also the legs and lower back involvement is mitigated.
Depends on the sport. If there's an off-season, at the beginning of the off-season is when you train pure strength movements in a caloric surplus, then towards the end of the off-season you start cutting the fat and train explosive movements
As a tall guy i have pretty bad leverages for the deadlift. If I go for less squatty form and more pulling with a slight bend in the back (because of proportions), lifting off the toes (not traditionally recommended), i think it carries over to top speed hamstring use, as long as its paired with something explosive. If I do a more squatty lift off the heels, i think it carries over to 180 changes of direction (uncommon in most sports). Those other lifts are great, but i dont think you can use them for max str, with the exception of the trap bar deadlift, which with my leverages is basically a squat.
I know this guy knows what he’s doing but when he throws out rep ranges they always throw me off guard sets of 7 , 9 and 17 always get me 😂 But love his stuff and his advice is great 💪🏼
It's just a weird lift to program. For general population I prefer the RDL for muscle development and mobility gains. I'd say the same for the athlete. So the only people I would program a deadlift is people that like deadlifting.
Damaged myself forever deadlifting, I was born decent, 2.0x body weight at 13 but I just took it too far and now I’m compromised athletically, if I focused on accessories for my main lifts I would be fine.
I'm just a bodybuilder. I only lift for the sake of hypertrophy. Deadlifting really only makes sense if you don't have time to isolate muscles. If you can target each individual muscle involved in compound movements, why wouldn't you?
the *best* *deadlift* *version* is the _weightlifting style SNATCH_ deadlift. it trains the legs, the posterior chain, the shoulders and the back, hell even the arms, because they get stretched with 40 % more force (due to the 45° inclination of the arms) relatively to the weight you're lifting
With good form utilizing hamstrings, it's one of the best for acceleration and grip strength. Just gotta warm up really well and make sure to get good sleep/nutrition/hydration to avoid back injuries. Of course, this is after establishing technique.
Keep in mind yall a deadlift is the bottom half of a clean so stop acting like he's saying its not supposed to be done. Hes saying athletes need to focus explosiveness so the clean and others are more optimal
My personal best lift hot 405 once stopped after a long time but I remembered why I stopped. Even on much lighter weights I was always in pain when doing so, even with several people assessing my form making sure it was good. Probably won't ever go back
Athletes, in general, should focus on building muscle, not strength. Strength gains on the deadlift only really apply to the deadlift, but bigger glutes, hamstrings, and spinal erectors improve every movement that involves those muscles.
I am not sure I agree. The first part of your comment isn't really supported by the second part. "Focus on building muscle, not strength" isn't really the direction most people would go. Like, you are advocating hypertrophy over strength. Like, doing a high rep, low weight type of program does not seem useful at all. Also, different forms of deadlift have different EMG activation and predominantly activate different muscles that you are talking about. For instance, sumo deadlift activating the vastus lateralis might be more beneficial for a sport that uses that (cycling). Also, most of what you mentioned as a counter to the deadlift are posterior chain muscles, which the deadlift is great for.
@@macgyvervanschwartzenstall4662 Yes, hypertrophy has carryover to any movement involving the relevant muscles, while 1RM strength does not. If you're not a powrlifter, super low reps are a waste of time and energy. And no, hypertrophy training does not mean high reps and low weight. You can build muscle in a wide rep range, anywhere from about 5-30, as long as you're taking your sets close to failure. Close to failure is the key. So that means using an appropriate weight, i.e. if you're going for sets of 10, then you ought to use close to your 10RM.
I have mixed feelings about this but I will say something I heard that makes a lot of sense to me is if you are not competing in powerlifting that trap bar deadlift can be a lot safer than straight bar deadlifts
Noob female lifter here, been going to the gym for about a year and I really want to do deadlifts but every time I try them I seem to hurt my lower back. It's never a serious debilitating injury, I'll just feel weird uncomfortable twinges above my hips when I'm leaving the gym or later on in the day, which scares me enough to stop me from doing them. I've watched tons of videos about proper form, not rounding my back etc but no matter how light I go (light enough to easily do sets of 12+ reps) and how careful I am it always seems to cause problems. Is it possible my hips arent mobile enough to be able to do one with proper form yet? Deadlifting seems like such a staple among lifters but I hardly ever hear people talking about mobility when it comes to them. I'm 22 and lived a pretty inactive life up until last year and my hips are definitely tight but I've been working on my overall mobility throughout the time I've been going to the gym. Has anyone faced similar problems?
