If I activate a fog effect after the damage step but before combat is finished I don't retroactively prevent that damage. It already happened before the thing that would have prevented it came into effect. Pulling technical tricks in a casual setting without pre-warning your opponent about your shenanigan's is a dick move. Doing it in a competitive setting is just being better at the game. "War favors the informed."
I don’t have a problem with any of these, but I agree it’s important that people know what you can do before you do it. When I play with newer players I tend to leave interactions like this out of our games. Except that daybound one. That’s completely illogical.
I don't agree on Mangara. Finding those obscure synergies is actually feels very rewarding. Those technicalities actually turn pretty boring cards into interesting and synergistic
Rules minutiae like these are what makes magic great IMO. They actually did errata reconnaissance to add a timing restriction but undid it because the “unintended” use case had basically become the cards identity and because other cards like Ith Higharcanist were printed with a similar effect. Personally, I use it in Varina Lich Queen and while it does basically make my combat step optimized to the point of being a little boring, a lot of cards in a lot of decks have way more busted “unintentional” effects.
This is false. There is no errata for timing on reconnaissance. Who ever told you this was either incorrectly informed themselves, or they just lied to you to get you to not use it anymore.
@@matthugenberg8869 It was tentatively changed May 9th of 2014, then reversed on July 17th of 2014 because everyone hated it (although realistically that only removed the pseudo vigilance, which was like 10% of its functionality anyway, but). "The Reconnaissance change, while well-intentioned, made the game less fun for some people and more fun for almost nobody. So, as I suspected during the last Update Bulletin, I'm reversing course. "
Reconnaissance was released during Fourth Edition rules. In that edition’s rules, combat has only four steps: Beginning of Combat, Declare Attackers, Declare Blockers, and End of Combat. Everything works the same except that tapped non-attacking creatures or creatures with vigilance that become tapped do not deal combat damage. Reconnaissance could be activated anytime except at the end of combat because that was when combat damage was handled. If it was activated then, the wording on Reconnaissance was there to let you know that if it dealt damage, it could not be removed from combat UNDER FOURTH EDITION RULES. Fifth Edition gave us the stack, and that broke a lot of cards from their old intended uses.
At first I was thinking: "Is 1-mana board vigilance that overpowered?" But then I totally aggree on making sure everyone else understand what you can do with this card to prevent misleading actions. Good point.
When this was printed, you could put damage on the stack from a creature in combat then sacrifice that creature and it would still do combat damage. The Combat Step used to work differently and this card worked properly. Some changes are definitely better.
@@neobaldurevermore3757 this is a few sets away from that change you're describing. Combat damage on the stack wasn't introduced until 1999, alongside 6th edition iirc. I remember it being all the rage, and locally speaking, mogg fanatic became the face of the rules change due to his sack ability
@@retrolosopher2405 Right. Reconnaissance came out 10 months before that specific rule change. Congratulations! 👏 👏 👏 I'm trying to make the comparison of ridiculous rules and things changing. I didn't play in tournaments but did play back then. I still believe that made them exist in standard at the same time. However, it didn't matter for the comparison I wanted to make.
@@neobaldurevermore3757 apologies, I only addressed the historicity of the comment you posted because the part about "this card worked properly" doesn't make any sense so I couldn't comment on it. The card functions then and it functions now, it never *not* functioned.
@@retrolosopher2405 No apologies necessary. I play MTG to this day. Nitpicking is common if not necessary. Would you prefer if I worded it as "the card functioned in the spirit of, in my opinion, its original conception"? Rather than 'not functioning properly'? 😂🤣 I'm glad you were able to shed some light on the situation. Have a great day!
Another interesting thing with Split Second is the fact that it says "that aren't mana abilities". This is important because I play Phyrexian Altar. I played the Altar and my Opponent tried to Krosan Grip it. Using Triggered abilities and the Sac for Mana I was able to kill off all my opponents using Blood Artist, Nether Traitor, and Pawn of Ulamog. They tried to destroy Altar with one of the triggers on the stack but I had another creature I could use to reset the combo. I knew there was enough interaction between all three players to stop me but with Krosan Grip on the stack no one else could interact and gave me the win. I knew because afterwards the other players showed their hands and there was 3 additional types of interaction to stop me and I could only get past 2 with the current boardstate.
I’m general, I feel like this video shows a fundamental misunderstanding and frustration with the rules of MTG, and the video is overly nitpicky about rules interactions that, while unintuitive if you don’t understand the rules, make sense and are easy to grok when you understand how the rules work. Derogatorily calling these things technicalities and derogatorily calling people who understand these things rules lawyers makes you seem childish and immature when that certainly isn’t your intent.
Yeah if was "cards with unique and interesting interactions" it would've been a good video, but insulting everyone that uses cool interactions like that is really distasteful.
I feel like mitch is underestimating people's knowledge of the rules and steps. I've known about reconnaissance like this basically since day 1 but since I politic heavy I don't usually do the damage because I don't wanna paint a target on myself.
Welp, I did knew it, but a know that a lot of people doesn't know it. Like he said, if we know how it works it's not a problem, the problem is if someone wants to "be that guy".
@@tristansmith6474 Honestly the pseudo-vigilance is an afterthought. Off the top of my head there's - Get attack triggers risk free (Used to have a 60 card deck with Recon, Mage Slayer, and infecty bois). - Got four 2/2s afraid to swing into a 3/6? Attack with everything, untap the one that gets blocked and deal 6 to face risk free. - Attack with Godsire, tap to make an 8/8, untap it and be ready to make another 8/8 before your next turn. - "Destroy target attacking creature." What attacking creature?
11:57 There's not really a way around this, and Wizards made the interaction between these 2 abilities abundantly clear when Time Spiral was released. After all, Time Spiral had morph cards. Here's why there's no way around it: 1. Imagine if turning over a morph card used the stack. Players could respond by casting something based on what they thought the morph card was about to become, without actually knowing. And it would be even more confusing (esp for new players) if players saw the revealed underbelly while the morph action was on the stack. So morph really needs to be a special action. 2. Imagine if Split Second didn't let triggered abilities trigger. Like, how would you even stop them, from a rules perspective? Wait for the Split Second spell to resolve, and then players put their stuff on the stack (huge memory issues)? Use a separate split-second stack (welcome back, interrupts)? So ya, gotta let triggers do their thing. 3. Ok, so maybe spells with Split Second could just happen without using the stack? Cats and dogs would live together, mass hysteria. All Magic judges just shuddered. No thanks. So ya, there was no other [good] way for Split Second and Morph to interact. Sorry, Mitch!
Not gonna lie usually I agree with Mitch on things, but I honestly disagree with basically everything in this video. These are the cool niche interactions that I enjoy and are some Hot takes. Except for maybe the companion thing, that's an obvious issue that they should've reprinted all of the companions with the new text in, and I absolutely hate the Nightbound and Daybound Bullshit.
Day bound night bound was a way to power up werewolves where they were essentially unplayable - especially multiplayer formats like commander. The problem is that the new mechanic fractures the core principle on how an entire tribe works. I like the power up from the new system, but it sucks that didn't work with the old system. I don't think there was a way to make everyone happy.
I’m okay with this card since Magic’s rules are so crisp otherwise . Compared to YU GI OH where the rules are actually more like exceptions than rules, the fact that magic cards and mechanics are so robust to begin with means that finding loopholes in Magic feels rewarding not just to play with, but against because of how brilliantly weird they are rather than frustratingly cheesy
This is something I wish more people understood. Even though on its surface Yugioh is much simpler, it's actually way more complicated due to cards not often doing what they say in every situation, and how the grammar of the card is fundamentally important to understanding what it does
Yeah Yugioh has a really dumb and clearly not a well thought out rule called missed activation timing. You would think in a game made for kids, they would make sure to have rules that are easy to understand.
Even to the point where two cards can be worded the same, but because their original Japanese counterparts are worded differently, they're ruled differently, such as lumina and zombie master.
God this is insufferable "I don't like these interesting interactions that require a little bit deeper understanding of the rules" They're fine, stuff like this is what makes magic so interesting, would you rather nothing be at instant speed so you couldn't do any "unintended" shenanigans?
I normally agree with the discusions you bring to the channell, but I think this kind of interactions is part of what makes Magic a great game. The knowledge curve is really big and knowing this kind of interactions or how to interact well with the stack etc, separates a good player from a really good player.
Some of the points, like the blinking to avoid Mangara’s exile or manipulating the order of Fiend Hunter’s abilities make sense once you understand how the stack works. They go against the design intention, but there is still a logical explanation for them and are the result of clever manipulations. Morph has no indication or reason to not use the stack. Reconnaissance is just stupid in that it is inherently broken.
@@charliemallonee2792 Morph has to be a special action due to the hidden information, and it would be pretty shitty to spend 7 mana flipping a boi just to have him shocked in response. Reconnaissance is fine, honestly the only "unintended" part is the pseuso vigilance, which is by far the least interesting part of the card anyway. And Mangara was deliberate, pretty sure I literally learned about the trick from an article on WotC's site.
@@dapperghastmeowregard I get the power-level reason, but what about being hidden information means it can’t use the stack? Also, yeah, I can see Mangara being intentional. The flavor is basically he hurls himself and another into exile, but if you save him by flickering him, he escapes.
@@charliemallonee2792 That's an area where my knowledge is a little hazier (plus we're talking about hypothetical parallel universe versions of the rules), but I think it has to do with needing to know the morph cost before the morph cost is public information or something.
@cak01vej Reconnaissance still works exactly as it says on the card (albeit with outdated reminder text, but that has no rules meaning), it's just exactly what it says on the card has a slightly different meaning under the new rules.
A lot of these are just knowing how the stack works and playing magic well. For new players I can see they might be a bit confusing, but don't think it is something broken about the card design. Recon I see why that does not work the way it is supposed to work. The morph piece though, I definitely agree. Morph should have as a part of the reminder text that it does not use the stack. Most players have no idea what counts as a "special action" and how they work.
This is a very salty episode. One of the biggest things you missed about split second is that mana abilities can still be activated, and triggered abilities still happen. So, for example, Ashnods Altar can be activated, and any triggered abilities from sacrificing that creature will happen.
TIL: mitch doesn't like blink cards, lol. But in seriousness, I quite enjoy the "non-targeting" targeting of aura's coming being put onto the battlefield. Turns Reality Acid into a fantastic removal spell for my Aminatou deck (and I hear it's great in Brago too), a true silver bullet against voltron decks.
That moment you realise that ignister prominence the blasting dracoslayer, has non targeting shuffle back effect. Just no you don’t know what I’m shuffling back into your deck until it resolves you don’t have to declare what you would like to shuffle back. See broken* card.
@@sam7559 cards will say stuff like “choose” or “send 1”and usually don’t have to be “selected” until the eff resolves, unlike targets which are chosen on activation
@@sam7559 In Yu-Gi-Oh (and also Magic but it doesn't come up as much) cards do not target unless the card says "target". "Target" is a specific term recognized by the game, so is the act of "Targeting" something, so if a card allows you to pick a card but doesn't use the game term "Target" (for instance using choose/select) then the game doesn't recognize it as "targeting" and so cards/effects that specifically look for "targeting" (like hexproof/shroud/ward) won't activate. For instance, sacrificing/tributing a creature/monster has you choose something but does not target anything, which is why you can use an edict effect to get rid of your opponent's hexproof creature.
The ruling with reconnaissance is similarly used for ninjitsu, so u can ninjitsu out a creature after combat damage. Was utilized in a game knights episode
@@durarada Due to the steps in combat once a creature is "unblocked" it remains that way until combat ends, so you can ninjitsu after the damage step to get a ninja out. It wont let the ninja deal damage though as the damage step already ended, but its a good way to get a creature back to your hand after it does any combat triggers.
@@durarada looks like u need to look at rule 702.48c. Ninjutsu is an activated ability by the way, it does not trigger. Also u can deal damage with both creatures if the creature u plan on bouncing has first strike or double strike thanks to rule 510.4
It doesn't need rewording. If you remove your blocked attackers it does what it says. If you remove attackers that done damage after the damage step, it does what it says. Only difference is after the damage step, the damage isn't undone.
The oracle text has already been updated and not longer has the paratheatrical , and specifies using it doesn't undo anything that happened before using the card in the rulings on Gatherer.
Morph needs to be a special action, because the face of a face-down card is hidden information until it is turned face-up. You have to reveal the card in order to "prove" that it has morph, and that wouldn't work if it remained face-down, or would at least be much more convoluted. It's like how players don't get to respond between casting a spell from your hand and that spell being put on the stack. The morph effect is a triggered ability though, (uses "when"), so that still uses the stack. Split Second *only* states that players can't cast spells or activate abilities. Triggered abilities can still trigger. It's right there on the card.
Isnt "rules-lawyering" just in about every combo ever...especially in janky combos, that most of the time when sitting at the other side of the table you wont understand them anyway
Morph needs to be a special action to prevent response shocks/bolts to flipping your creature. They didn't want players to pay big mana to flip into a big boy and get nothing because the opponent played shock which was reprinted in Onslaught and thus showed up in limited constantly. But this means, since it needs to not allow a response, then the morph abilities need to go onto the stack too and ignore things like Split second, which came later and isn't really morph's fault.
It's not just morph anyway, all triggered abilities still happen, morph us just one that "feels" like an activated ability, but Krosan Grip can be Counterbalanced.
The daybound/nightbound is the only part of this video I agree with. The rest is just plain interesting to me. Also reconnaissance ruling is the same as with ninjutsu. I agree that reconnaissance is misleading, the parenthesis text should be removed if it's ever reprinted.
I built Zur as my first EDH deck because of the diplomatic immunity interaction. Commander wasn’t a named format at the time and our LGS ran competitive 1v1 EDH sometimes. Because of that rule, I won a lot of prize packs (and eventually a Commander Anthology). The Moonmist rule bothers me too. Since day/nightbound are state-based effects, they could of handled Moonmist one of two ways: 1- Moonmist works and now your cards are werewolves until the next nightbound becomes day (so just early shapeshifting). Or 2- Moonmist transforms them, their Bound ability checks to confirm it’s on the right cycle, realizes it’s not, then immidiately transforms them back. I’m not sure now many new werewolves get bonuses from transforming the way Huntmaster of the Fells does, but it would be a cool way to get more value out of those creatures.
Willbender redirecting a Split Second isn't for "whatever reason." It's because turning it face up is a special action, and because SS says abilities can't be activated. Not they can't trigger.
His point was kind of off here, to me. I'm relatively new and bought the 2019 decks and was confused about how morph worked (regarding timing specifically) and looked it up and saw it was a special action that you can do whenever you have priority. Talk about a niche case...a SS spell getting affected on the stack by a morph ability...sure its possible but...come on. If I were ever on the receiving end it would be cool. Like, holy crap, you had literally the only possible answer to my SS spell and had the mana to pay for the morph cost. Well played!
@cak01vej It cannot work any other way. Morph has to be a special action. It's not an activated or triggered ability, it's just a thing that happens. Triggered Abilities still happen when you cast a spell with Split Second. Counter Balance can counter them. Reality Smasher can counter them if they target it. Prowess still makes the thing bigger.
It's not an activated ability, it's a special action. Show the morph cost, pay the morph cost, turn the object over. It sound's like the issue you and mitch have is "I don't get this interaction, I hate it because of that." This is a large and complex game, not everyone is going to know how the rules work, specially when it comes to a pair of rarely used keywords. That's why we have Judges. That's what they do.
@cak01vej Because the 2/2 has no abilities. It cannot be an activated ability both because of how it works, and because the object itself has no abilities.
My dude, I usually really appreciate what you have to say about this kinda stuff. And I agree with you on some of these complaints (Reconnaissance and Fiend Hunter), but you're *really* splitting hairs with some of these. Magic is a *big* game, and it's really a a Helluva thing that the rules are so consistently written in such a way that 99% of interactions are intuitive and straightforward. Some of these loopholes are frustrating, but more often than not, they're the lesser of two evils designwise.
@@dapperghastmeowregard regardless of the legality, being able to choose to remove a creature from combat after the combat (damage) has occurred is bizarre.
@@karlvyh The hard part is knowing that there's a point after dealing damage but before creatures stop being attacking creatures during which abilities can be activated, which in fairness is a bit tricky considering most casual games shortcut it, but once you know about that, it's just a matter of reading the card explains the card (albeit with outdated reminder text, but that has no rules impact, old Madness doesn't mention exiling the card but nobody complains about that :P) Also, you wanna talk weird shit, with the right cards Nicol Bolas can pick up Nicol Bolas and hit Nicol Bolas with him :P.
A problem that arises is people flocking to these broken mechanics just because of the fact that they break the game, thus homogenizing formats, spiking prices of stupid cards, and making things less fun because of course some smug sweatlord wants to flex with some overdone technicality.
As long as you're not the kind of player that will ignore the 5 steps of combat until you want to use Reconnaissance on that final step. Because that's just scumming and functionally the same as keeping Dryad Arbor with your lands.
Hey Mitch, the reason morph is a special action is because flipping the card is the resolution of the effect, and if you paid mana and put 'morph this' on the stack before revealing it, your opp has just seen you tap lands and claim something is about to happen without touching any of your cards. Casting or even forecast or splice reveals the card in question, and activated abilities require that your opponent can see what you're spending mana on. That doesn't work if morph is an activated ability because they won't see what the mana is spent on until their chance to react is over. Say they have a doomblade and you morph something dumb like Sidisi's pet. If that used the stack then your opponent has to look at the UB you tapped to pay the morph and take a guess whether the creature is going to be black. They decide to go ahead and remove it just in case. The card dies and goes face up to graveyard and opp sees they never would've wanted to waste a doomblade on that but got tricked into it by priority prior to resolution. The only way to have that NOT trick players is to never give them priority prior to resolution of the morph. Short version: you have to show your opp an ability to do it. That doesn't work with flipping a card up
One of the best parts of magic to me is getting better, learning how the rules work and how interactions work is one of the biggest parts to getting better. It just wild there are people who look down on that.
Plus I just realized, even if they made it rules text like "remove target attacking creature from combat and untap it. Prevent all combat damage that creature would deal this turn." It would still function 99% the same, if you activate it at end of combat it won't retroactively cancel the damage already dealt (It would be slightly less fun with multiple combat steps, but that's about it).
I think what WoTC should have done with Moonmist is allowing the creature to transform and immediately transform back to human due to the Daybound. Only the werewolf which have a "Transform trigger" would be affected as all other werewolves would just flip and flip back as "state base effect". That would have make everything consistent imho.
Personally, I love this card, specifically because to me, a big part of the fun of MtG is bending the rules to your advantage or your opponents' disadvantage. Stax as an archetype is a really good example of this. It rewards learning about the specifics of the game, and the more keen-eyed players among us. As far as intended play, I'd highly encourage you to watch MaRo's GDC talk about 20 years, 20 lessons learned. All of it is great, but I want to reference his lesson 10, (starting at 30:08). He describes both Summoner's Pact and Hive Mind were meant to work, and how by combining them, they can instantly win the game, despite the fact that *neither card was meant to work that way*. I find that claiming a card's design or use is bad because "the card wasn't meant to work that way!" is antithetical to what Magic's top designers cite as one of the greatest benefits to their game.
Yea I don’t see the first usage being “rule lawyering.” RL is more like you try to choose a card with Duress but then choose a different card quickly after. Depending on how fast and clear the choice was, calling a judge over the switch may be RLing. Maybe casual play has a different definition.
same here, the problem is players using the cards and not honestly explaining how they work beforehand. i play reconnaissance, i have zur commander and roon commander with mangara and fiend hunter, i always remind people that morphs can beat split second. the cards are mostly fine, but making deceitful plays with them is definitely an issue.
@@Flickerform1 This is what I think he was getting to because the rules interaction is not clear in the text on the card. People will use this to obscure plays until its too late. Casting a spell and saying "does this resolve?" with no explanation about the bizarre interaction it has with something on the field only to then surprise them with the interaction later. There is a aspect of the game that involves information denial but hiding how your cards interact to avoid them being responded to or dealt with is scummy. I am a huge fan of finding old cards that have weird interactions with new stuff but I explain it while the spell is on the stack not when its too late for them to do anything about it.
A really fun head scratching interaction is Humility and Morph. You go to pay the cost, turn the card face up, if it's a creature then suddenly Humility says halt you have no abilities rewind. But if it's not a creature (like Zoetic Cavern), Humility says this is fine turn face up. Then to further make this less consistent, you can turn any Manifested creature faceup under a Humility thanks in part to how the Manifest rules work.
Reconnaissance has recently become one of my favourite cards. I use it in my Breena deck and one of the modes I tend to use more and more is to attack someone to get my commander trigger but then play it nice and don't deal any damage to them :)
I get the sentiment of this video, and I wholeheartedly agree that if you're playing these cards and intending to use the obscure interactions, you should absolutely inform your playgroup when you play it. But I also think that these minute and more esoteric interactions are what makes the game great, and I'm always thrilled to see someone pull of a combo or synergy that only works during specific steps and with specific cards. Those are the most fascinating parts of magic in my opinion and should absolutely not be errata'd to just do their boring normal interactions. These types of specific rules interactions are what allow old, often "bad" cards to find niche playable decks/strategies when newer cards are printed
This is good explanation of these cards, I usually play with a higher level of understanding and we usually appreciate finding niche card uses and mechanics. Definitely considering for my decks, thanks Mitch!
Lots of salt here. I've been playing the game since Interupts and Damage-on-the-Stack was a thing. Knowing the quirks of cards and rules interactions is part of the fun of the game. I don't hear any hate for Maze of Ith here which can be run exactly the same way. And if rules confusion is a problem then we need to get rid of Blood Moon and Humility. This card is strong but hardly overpowered compared to the other things going on in the format
I actually like most of those interactions. I feel what you call a 'rules lawyer' is somebody who just knows the rules. I think people should be rewarded for knowing the rules well. These interactions reward you for knowing the rules. They're not intuitive for sure, but that's how the game works.
An interesting combo with Reconnaissance is anything with a tap ability and vigilance. One example is Kaheera + Frondland Felidar. You attack with your vigilance cats, use the tap ability to tap down blockers. Then you still get to untapped after combat damage.
Hehe. Reconasance is one of my two favorite enchantments from back in the day. Has fun interactions with first strike too. The other was repercussion. Much more straightforward.
A lot of cards are not used as intended. For example, with maze of ith you can use it to untap a creature that untaps multiple lands infinitely because it does not actually remove the creature from combat, just prevents damage. So I can attack with Ley weaver, use maze of ith to untap it, tap leyweaver, untap maze of ith and another land, repeat for infinite mana and put that into any mana dump to win the game. While Reconnaissance is a glaringly obvious example of this, it happens all the time in mtg.
Morph works like that because if you got to respond to the opponent paying a morph cost, you can tell what the card is because you get to see what they paid to unmorph it. This is against what morph is supposed to be. And it allows you can just shock it in response.
Mitch Hates Reconnaissance for all the reasons I love it. Stack manipulation is how my Roon deck works and is built around. Also it has come up enough times that I do warn people in advance about how I manipulate the stack in case they don't want to play against it. Including how I can potential exile a commander permanently. edit: Funny how Fiend Hunter and Mangara of Corondor were also highlighted since they are also both a part of my Roon deck too.
Reconnaissance works exactly as intended. It's just undercosted. (Giving your team vigilance by itself already costs 1W. Keeping your team safe to attack should cost extra.)
I'd say a bigger issue than Zur's ability is that copy/clone effects don't target. If someone gives Emrakul shroud, you can cast Copy Enchantment, have it enter as a copy of Darksteel Mutation, then attach that aura to Emrakul. Even though you still cast Copy Enchantment and you can't target Emrakul
0: Before combat damage is calculated, remove target attacking creature you control from combat and untap it. There, that SHOULD fix it, but I could be wrong.
The Morph one makes sense even if it creates that (admittedly VERY stupid) edge case with Split Second. It's so a kill spell or other effect can't stop you from flipping face up. Imagine a non-SS-card scenario. "I cast Blue Sun's Zenith targeting you, X is 19 duodecillion factorial." "I flip Willbender faceup to target you instead." "Okay, now that I know that's a Willbender, Shock it before it flips and that flip just never triggers hahaha you wasted your mana." Now, that wouldn't actually be that broken, but it means that activating Morph would have to be a VERY tedious process because you need to announce you're flipping a card over, and your opponent would have to decide if they're responding with zero idea what they're responding to. The fix here seems easy though if you specifically want it to not skirt around Split Second. Just make Morph an activated ability instead of a special action, and then flipping the card face up for Morphs and Manifests part of the COST to activate it. You can't respond to costs being paid, so it preserves the intended function and removes the edge case.
For the Daybound/Nightbound fix for Moonmist, they could have easily errata Moonmist to something like: "If it isn't Night, then it becomes Night. Transform all Humans and all Daybound creatures to Nightbound. Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn by creatures other than Werewolves and Wolves." There, done, nothing too complicated I hope. 👌
For Mangara I always thought that this is the way he was supposed to be used. In my mind if WotC didn't want people to respond to its activated ability and bounce/sac/flicker him, they would have either done it as a cost or worded it with "if you do": "Exile CARDNAME and if you do, exile target permanent" - like they did with Archfiend's Vessel or Boneyard Aberration (and how some effects that have been worded for years in yu-gi-oh, in cases where designers don't want these affects to be reused in that way). Of course that has the drawback of making this effect vulnerable to interaction from the opponent's side (if somebody would cast Murder on your Mangara, your effect wouldn't be able to exile it from the battlefield and the second part of the effect wouldn't happen). But it always felt intentional to me (and the obvious way to use this card)
Reconicense is worded this way because back in the days of exodus, combat damage used the stack, so this card would be placed on the stack after damage triggers had been placed
I hope that some LOW POWER Izzet, Azorious and Gruul companions are printed within a precon to A) Have all the proper companion rules text and B) allow for those colour pairs to be built with since as of now they are either banned (fair enough for the otter restriction), can’t be used for a strict deck size format and in gruul’s case is actually 5 colours based on the card text.
Mangara feels totally intended. It's an ability that exiles 2 cards, one of those being mangara. In the same way they could blink their creature to save it, you can blink yours to save it. This is the one that I don't think is rules lawyering at all. Moonmist, yea I dont know, feels just like the next time daybound or nightbound happened they would get back in sync, not sure what the problem is for wotc, this just feels wrong. The message doesn't read to me as it's a flavor problem but rather some mechanical issue, but I can't for the life of me figure out what that might be. Morph, you trade 1 edge case for another by making morph use the stack, how do you treat stifles, which are something that we're likely to see more of. The opponent gets to know what mana you spent, if the ability is on the stack do they know what creature it is? Personally, I think it's fine as is, not the clearest thing but split second was always going to add some complexity. Recon and Fiend Hunter are definitely only used because of their specific interactions so there's definitely a lot to be careful about here. Recon was errata'ed to remove the rules text but changing the functionality of either card would functionally ban it. Neither card is strong enough to warrant a ban so I don't know how you deal with it. It probably falls under general rule 1, and more specifically don't be a dick, if you need to trick a new player to with with recon you probably need to reevaluate, and if it comes into play in a game where you aren't sure you should probably do a table check to make sure every understands the rules, or is at least aware of how they will function. I hesitate to have a major issue about confusing the average player in a game where layers exist... also banding. Feels like you could ban every card on this list and there'll still be simpler/more rules friendly ways to confuse people into making bad plays. Zur, yea I tend to agree, an enchantment put into play should probably target what it's going on. Or at the very least it should need to be able to target it. That's a pretty fundamental rules change to auras, but I don't think it'd cause too many problems. Finally companion, wotc definitely fucked up. Moving forward from that there certainly wasn't a good choice. I think wizards was never going to pick banning companions in all formats over a potential errata to keep them around, no matter how it affects edh. Bad, probably, but then companions were bad from the jump, and Lutri shows that more than anything in edh. My main issue is that a major argument was that companions now are errata'ed an don't behave as they act on the card, while starting the video off saying that they should errata recon to work as intended. Some people like errata some people don't, but it really feels like cherry picking to call errata a problem for a card you do like but saying they should do it to a card you don't. Are the situations identical, definitely not, is this a sketchy argument, definitely. Recon, whether it is liked or not, behaves the way it does as it's written on the card, and errata'ing that, makes the card not function the way it is written.
Why didn't they errata Moonmist to have "It becomes night" just before "Transform all Humans". It is not like that would break the formats the card is used in.
One may also abuse the ability of Reconnaissance to set off attack triggers (Ulamog, for example) without connecting. It's a great way to avoid getting blocked by deathtouch.
Morphs work this way so that you don’t have to spend the mana to flip a morph (basically telegraphing what creature it actually is) and then pass priority, giving your opponent an opportunity to kill it before it flips and it’s effect triggers, which would just invalidate the whole point of a morph
Good news everyone! Reconnaissance is getting a reprint in ACR with updated paratheses - "(If you activate during end of combat, the creature will untap after it deals combat damage.)"
Errata is for when a card can no longer work as worded due to a rules change. What Reconnaissance needs is the Oubliette treatment, giving it a reprint that clarifies everything about the card's effects in text that isn't 2 decades old. As for the rest of the interactions in this video... Honestly, it's up to the playerbase to make sure such interactions are understood. Let's face it, nobody learned mtg by reading the rules document and I haven't seen any beginner product other than the welcome decks in years. Older players teach new ones, and especially in the case of commander, making sure everyone has a good grasp of interactions in your deck is a good idea. In the case of Fiend Hunter specifically, I often give history lessons to new players about the reason behind the difference between Banishing Light and Oblivion Ring when it comes up. I don't have the specific paragraph of the rules document tabbed at all times or anything, but I find this interaction is a good time to give a small lesson on how the stack works. With that said, the game's got almost 30 years on its back now, and more and more rules are getting added. A few of them are bound to be a bit obscure. It's not that they no longer work, it's that design has moved away from them in a way that they are no longer relevant on a day-to-day basism but Gatherer keeps track of rulings for exactly that reason. I only agree on the Companion and Daybound / Nightbound arguments. The Companions need reprints with the correct text (and we all know that's not happening in the imminent future) because the card specifically explains the mechanic wrong and the Daybound / Nightbound mechanic... My god, as if old Werewolves weren't already a badly designed mechanic that needed to be tracked on the back all players' heads around the table, they went and made new Werewolves specifically not synergize with the old ones! Moonmist could easily have been reprinted with updated text that makes it night, and Immewolf can be errata'ed (though again, reprints with parentheses that explain the new interactions would be ideal). Not only that, this mechanic (much like OG Werewolves, if we're being honest) only barely clears the threshold of "able to be tracked by players" and stays out of that God-awful idea Arena had to make a set that copies Hearthstone with mechanics only the computer could be expected to track.
I feel like the middle ones about mangara, fiend hunter and cards like it are solved with a firm understanding on how the stack works. Which is the most important aspect of this game. These interactions have been around since parallax wave and auratog were around. If you firmly grasp how triggers are placed on the stack, youll become a better player
I think the same thing, but for Frenetic Efreet and Frenetic sliver, a mean, you may put as many abilities on the stack as you want, then, only the first one desides if your creature dies or not, and the 26382937389236 abilities last make your Okaun to have infinite damage, and to draw your entire deck with Zndrsplt.
Willdender was reprinted as a timeshifted card in time spiral. I think it was done because morph is the only answer (I think) to split second. I like that there was an answer to a mechanic that could have been broken. I like the blink interactions that you mentionned, it also true with parrallax wave. For the aura that enters the battlefield without targeting, I agree that it is quite un-intuitive. I found about it reading online while building a brago deck. If someone would have told me this in a game before that, I would've argued and would'nt have believed it. The companion mechanic had to be errated, it was clearly too strong. They will probably reprint the cards with errated text eventually (older cards often have a text that was changed aura of silence or winter orb for example; or a different creature type like goblin king). As for reconnaissance, it clearly is a rule lawyers situation. It definitely clashes with the flavor of the card: you don't go in a reconnaissance mission after the battle!!
This card is pure gas in my Varina Lich Queen deck. Want to swing with 5 zombies but don’t want to lose those 5 zombies and not be able to to swing again next turn? Just pay 0, draw 5, discard 5, no one gets hurt. Basically, activate Varina’s ability at the cost of hurting someone in combat. So nice.
Mitch: This is going to be a salty episode. (Places salt shaker on the table) DesolatorMagic: (Backing up outside with a dump truck) Someone say they need salt?
I get the daybound bit, otherwise you could use moonmist to invert the sync and it defeats the purpose. They should have said transforming doesn't change the day night requirement of cards. You transform in, see it's day, transform back. Use it like a etb trigger.
You would HATE the first Deck I ever made. Non-Net Deck Brago. I love complex rules interactions. But yeah, I totally agree with what you are saying. It should be intuitive and you should totally explain all your cards when you sit down to play. Whenever I cast a reconnaissance I ask if everyone knows what it can do. Then let it resolve.
My favorite way to use this card is in a deck like Roon or Tariel, Reckoner of Souls where you attack, tap the creature for their activated ability, then reconnaissance to untap them to use it again. Very very very good with Kelsien, the Plague, but also lets you get kind of funky with combos like Faeburrow Elder + Aggrivated Assault, or Stonehewer Giant and just dropping tons of equipments onto now potentially very lethal attackers. It's a very versatile card because of the end of combat step, but it's also a free untapper for creatures with activated abilities and vigilance. Definitely my favorite version of Jandor's Saddlebags.
The more powerful version of this effect is Maze of Ith, because It lets you do infinite untap loops with cards like Kiora's Follower+Illusionist's Bracers, or Krosan Restorer/Argothian Elder/Ley Weaver for infinite mana in combat. This is because Maze of Ith does not remove the creature you untap from combat.
I was told by a judge that Fiend Hunter's interaction does not work the way you described because the second ability is tied to the first in that if the first one leaves, the first part fizzles.
You were misinformed, Fien Hunter does work that way since it has two triggers that relate to the same object. The printing of banishing priest is actually the "fixed version" since it has just one ability that does both things thus preventing it from being abusable. That being said, this is also a key point to interact against a Worldgorger Dragon combo since you can remove it before the 1st trigger resolves effectiveley exiling everything the WDragon player has.
@@diegopicchetto5250 okay, I now see where things got really muddled. That makes so much more sense because that was what I was told worked prior to an official ruling. Thanks for clarifying!
Well you are clever if you understand the rules in their entirety and play certain cards who work for a better purpose, theres no need to put someone in a bad light for being smart or maybe just competitiv who wants to use the best possible cards. I think its bad attitude too and shouldnt work, but being passiv aggressiv to some players is just wrong.
As far as mangara and fiend hunter goes, that's just stack manipulation or just understanding it with depth. I don't see anything wrong abusing stack rules that way. It would be cool if wizards said through oracle text that reconnaissance gives pseudo vigilance now in oracle But it is also important to note that the rules for combat have changed since the game's inception. You know, over 20 years ago
theres also the issue of originial innistrad werewolves that have the same transformation trigger as daybound/nightbound, but aren't errata'd tp be day/nightbound, so if a card forces the day/night to change, but the number of spells cast isn't met, only some of the cards will transform back dispite the abilities working the same way.
I actually did have to explain the Morph thing when someone had another Split Second effect that would stop them from losing the game. It was a different Morph, but I still countered it. Had to call a judge to explain to him I wasn't bullshitting.
Whats wrong with weird interactions?! This kind of stuff is what makes magic fun in my opinion. You’re playing a game with complex rules, and taking advantage of that is a key part of playing the game. Especially since almost none of these effects are overpowered either.
