Why I'm A Subs Elitist... Anime Localizations, Translations and Dubs 

I used to say I prefer dubs until I realized that I just preferred whichever version of a show I watched first.

It's crazy how people just strawman the people who want more accurate subtitles. They just think people want literal word for word translation (which is impossible), when it couldn't be further from the truth. There's such a difference between a subtitle that retains the meaning of dialogue, and changing the meaning of dialogue. There was a translator that was bragging about how cool she was for translating "Kono yaro" into "you incel". Kono yaro is commonly translated as "You bastard!" and is often used in responses to a man doing something despicable, much like "You bastard" would mean. It's clear to see how changing this to... "Incel"... completely changes the meaning. It would be like translating it to "chud" or "sjw" or "libtard." In Dragon Maid they entirely altered Fafnir's dub character to be a suicidal depressed emo kid, which couldn't be further from what Fafnir actually is; a literal god of death that can wrought destruction on our world and end all life if he desired. He literally threatens people when he's introduced, such to say if you piss him off, he'll LITERALLY kill everybody. It's obvious that changing his lines to "Makes me want to end myself" totally changes his character.

When she switched to an American accent, I checked to make sure I didn't have anything else on in the background because I almost didn't believe. Congrats on 10k subs.

Any adaptation that attempts to match lip flaps has to change the translation or sound incredibly awkward. It's already hard to translate nuances even with the freedom of subtitles. That's why the best-sounding dubs are often the more loosely-translated ones. Except then you're losing even more accuracy from the original script. You wouldn't want to watch Star Wars dubbed in Japanese for the same reason.

The language neutrality factor is a HUGE thing I never thought of or seen brought up in the conversation. Very understandable reasoning with just that alone

Something I've noticed is that I like the dub in games but not in anime even with the same voice actors. Even in something like persona 5 I like the dub but the dub in the anime cutscenes feel awkward.

I'm an anime fan that likes both dubs and subs for anime. The reason why I like dubs is simply for nostalgia when I watch anime as a kid so dub anime is apart on my childhood. Right now I only watch dub anime for series that have already aired in Japan for example I'm watching English dub Food Wars Season 3 and I like it and before that I was watching the English dub for Assassination Classroom. The only reason why I watch subs is because that is the only way to keep up with anime airing in Japan right now as a seasonal anime watcher and I don't want to wait days or months after the anime has aired even though Funimation does simuldubs. Speaking of Funimation, their English dubs can be hit or miss these days and not as good compared to what they did in the early 2000s. The reason why I hate the Subs vs. Dubs debate is because it creates a level of toxicity in the online anime community and it makes it difficult to talk about my favorite anime.

For me, I like dubs. I like hearing characters speak in my native tongue because it helps me connect to a character more when I hear them speaking english, accent or not. My 3 favorite dubs are the Haruhi series, Birdy the Mighty Decode and Black Lagoon (Where the characters are canonically speaking english.) That being said, a lot of dubs in recent years have been grinding on my nerves, which leads to me becoming a sub elitist as well. A lot of the VA's try doing "anime voices" that don't sound natural and sometimes sound annoying. Especially in tense situations where a character is yelling or screaming, the VA either A: Break the "anime voice" they've chosen for the character while they're yelling/screaming and slip into their more natural voice because they can't do the voice naturally or B: Restrict their performance because they aren't capable of doing their "anime voice" when they're yelling or screaming. There's also a lot of instances where a character has a particular trait about them that you see/hear in the manga/subs (whether it be how they talk or character quirks) that the english VA's don't pick up on, either because they haven't looked at the source material, don't bother looking to see how the Japanese VA approached the character or just decide on their own to take the character in a different direction. Lastly, anime script writers taking it upon themselves to censor or "fix" content they find "problematic". Or just take liberties and do what they want because whatever property they're scripting for isn't very popular. I'm just not a fan of people taking something that isn't theirs and changing it in a way that suits them, when their job is to translate it to another language as close as possible. Offensive or not, I want whatever the author wants to portray and if I just take it upon myself to change something about a character or plot point because I didn't like it then I'm not doing my job correctly. I've been poking my head in on some of your other video essays, and I gotta say I really enjoy the way you present things. You're very open minded and understanding about things you aren't familiar with and may not even particularly care for (such as the loli portion of one of your other videos). I hope you continue to do videos like these and look forward to your next one! Sorry for the long comment!

The neutrality argument is pretty important. I am, for example, a Finnish speaking person. Every kind of English language is non-neutral with anime. If I have to listen to a foreign language, I prefer the original.

First, your voice is like that rush from your first caffeine shot in the morning - both relaxing and uplifting. Secondly, as an American English speaker, dubs are weird to me as well. The entire feel of a scene is often drastically different from the original voice actors. I want to get the original intent for what the characters are saying, and watching subs is the best way to accomplish that, at least for me.

In the dubbed version of Smile Precure, called Glitter Force, the dubbing company completely changed the Precure names (and called them Glitter instead), even though the original names were already in English: Cure Smile, Cure Sunny, etc. They also removed 10 episodes, including a key episode featuring cure Sunny and her memories she had with her father. Even though it's a series aimed at children, the dubbing company decided it was too much for the western audience and cut it out. As it turned out, Toei didn't seem to like the result, and from what I recall, chose not to make another dub of their series with the same company.

I like to call myself an "original fetishist." USUALLY the closer you are to the original in a creative product the closer you are to the original vision of the author. For example I usually prefer to read books/manga/light novels if that's the original, but even with anime adaptations that aren't the original you usually have the author of the original involved in the production process, choosing the voice actors, instructing them etc. It is one huge project of animators, directors and voice actors all working together like a clockwork. In some cases this can become quite extreme as well with some madmen authors like Ryukishi who told the higurashi voice actors only as much as their respective characters knew so the voice actors would perform more realistically, being as much in the dark as their character-roles. And this is just one example. However with dubs this is not the case, dubs are INTERPRETATIONS of a work where the staff that originally created it usually wasn't involved, it is yet again a step further away from the initial vision, especially if the original work isn't even an anime but a manga or a book. You then have the interpretation of an interpretation of the original idea/creation. And worst of all most authors or creators have due to language barriers no way to even really check the dub interpretations or get involved with the script lines and the voice actors etc. And especially lately with anime a lot of dubs take far more liberty in interpreting dialogues than I think is good, adding political commentary to them where it doesn't belong and whatsoever. Worse, a bunch of voice actors and scriptwriters are even infamous for disliking anime fans or the anime community like some certain genshin impact english voice actors who seem to not only dislike the game, but the very community they're voiceacting for (and outright labeled them as pedos). The same goes for a bunch of people involved in dubbing who consider anime misogynistic which they can feel free to think so if they want to imo, but having people work on stuff they don't even really like just feels wrong. To use the restaurant metaphor again it's like eating meat from a cook who himself is vegetarian and considers eating meat bad. It leaves a weird aftertaste even if the food is well prepared. It is much more heartwarming and comfy to eat a meal that was prepared with love. Apart from that: watching stuff subbed is good for your brain. For example scandinavians watch most of their movies and tv-shows subbed, it's natural there and as a consequence they are among the best language learners in the world. There was even a case of a certain norwegian family that was almost out of their mind surprised at their very own child literally speaking fluent german when a german exchange student stayed over. They never taught their kid german, but found out that the kid had always been in front of the tv watching the german television channels subbed. You pick up a ton of language and vocabulary passively and your brain is doing so much background work in that time. I have been able to become decent at japanese without even studying overly much purely because of so much language input. That is not to be underestimated. I learned english by watching tv shows and movies and reading books in english as well (yes I am not native in english either). And well finally: japanese is just a beautiful language. Watching subbed anime becomes more and more magical the more you understand japanese. It is also simply a pleasure to listen to this language. At first when you start it might sound weird but the longer you do it the more you just get addicted to its beauty~ These are my personal reasons for watching subbed. Thanks for coming to my Ted-talk xDDD

There’s actually a kind of similar problem in regards to Bible translations. There are probably close to a hundred different translations, but they all fall roughly into two categories: word-for-word, and thought-for-thought. Word-for-word is a direct translation, with minor tweaks for language differences, such as sentence structure or certain concepts. Thought-for-thought translations are when the translators take a section, translate it, then interpret what THEY think it’s saying. Guess which style is more likely to be exploited by those who might have more of a tendency to force their own personal and political biases onto others? Also, if anyone reads this, I’m not looking to get into a theological discussion with any edgy atheists out there, no offense... maybe some offense. :) I was just struck by the similarities and wanted to comment on it.

i am automatically suspicious of every single professional localization from a group i don't already trust entirely or isn't already being scrutinized heavily by weebs more fluent than me. after that persona vs. fire emblem bullshit it seems like most localizers believe scrubbing the japanese out of the japanese products and doing a youtube abridged version of the dialogue/story/characters is the proper way to bring it to the west.

Think your voice is soothing to listen to while I work. Also not much of a dub fan anymore, prefer subs more than ever now.

As a Swedish person there is also the cultural aspect. In Sweden we only dub movies and series which is targeted towards children (disney movies, cartoon network) while anything that targets an older audience is subbed (hollywood and anything else really) so reading subs just feels natural, not to mention that american accents sound weird anime most of the time like you mentioned.

If I'm watching a Japanese show, I want to experience the Japanese culture in it and not the same old thing I already have access, and the same is valid for any other country, including media from the US. I like appreciating the original work by what it is. That's just me, personally, and I get the counter argument but it's just what I like, and the localization sometimes do break the immersion really bad for me. This is why I prefer subs for most of what I consume. The bigger problem is all the licensed stuff now for which we don't have an alternate accurate translation, since it would be taken down and fans usually don't take to translate, and with even the subs becoming more localized if feels like we don't have a place where to run if we want to experience the original except for learning Japanese, point in which we won't need the localization companies anymore.

I love when subs dedicate a small paragraph to explain wordplay or jokes that don't translate well from japanese instead of "localizing" the joke, wich at times completely messes up the intent of the original and in the wost case changes the way you see the characters involbed in that joke.

I used to write for a company as a localization aid until their government banned foreign influence causing my credits to be erased and the company couldn't defend me in fear of governmental turbulence. I think a Localization/ Cultural consultant is INCREDIBLY important. A cultural consultant could prevent a lot of easy mistakes. I had trouble with voice acting since I didn't like how I was directed to Americanize lots of Japanese traits. I was not liked by the local casting directors cause I didn't play fiddle but I couldn't comfortably collect a paycheck from a work I wasn't passionate about.

The hardcore political subversion of recent english dubs are the reason why i want to learn japanese and do with eng subs and dubs forever

These long videos are great. It's just good stuff for an hour

I admit, I ended up subbing to your channel for the longer vids. Nonetheless, your other content is still cool!

As someone from a non-english speaking country (im from argentina) i apreciate the topic of the international anime comunity being more than just the USA. For me its always between picking two foreing languages (there is no neutral for me) so it all comes down to what gives me the more enjoyable experience, wich in anime 90% of cases its subs. I play a lot of story driven video games so i know that the VA industry in america and europe can put amazing work. In the same way that i change the voices of a japanese game from english to japanese, i change the voice of an english-centric game from spanish to english. Often it comes not to the difference between good and bad VA but between good and excellent . An example of this was Bioshock Infinite, i played half the game with the spanish dub wich it was good but it wasnt as good as the american voices. Since then all my consoles language have been switched to english to avoid video games defaulting into spanish. This example is what almost always happens to me with japanese videogame/anime dubbed into english, its often (nowadays at least) good but not good enought to me because it makes me feel this weird sensation that the voice im hearing coming from a character (some of the characters....not all of them) doesnt fit the visual desing of said character. Now this is speculation of someone that knows nothing of the industry, but something that comes to my attention is that while i almost always change japanese games from english to japanese, i never ever change european/american games to japanese even if im given the option. I imagine that there is a difference in the quality of production and voice acting direction of games made in an english speaking countries and game dubed from japanese to english. Sounds reasonable, in the second one its a bonus that sometimes might not be a high priority but the in the first one its indispensable if you want spoken dialogue. Even with the good talent (that i know it exists), they cannot shine if they arent given the time or direction to bring this characters to life in a different language. i dont think that im blinded by japanese fanboyism because, while i've never picked a english dub over a sub in anime, there are two series of videogames where i prefer the english dub over the sub and another one where i can go either way. 1 is Devil May Cry (specifically 3, 4 and 5) because the voice acting done very well (or at least good enought) for the kind of fun absurd story that this games often have, to the point that i pick the language that fits better the art style and in this case it is the english one. 2 Bayonetta 1 and 2. I spended a good hour replaying the prologue of Bayonetta 2 because i couldnt pick between english or japanese until i finally decided for english. The reasons are the same that with Devil May Cry with the only diference being that i actually like more the english voice of Bayonetta. 3 I can go either way with Danganronppa, i think that english dub expresses very well the personalities of the characters in this series and i honestly had a hard time picking one while playing Danganronppa V3. I decided for japanese just because i also tend to watch lets play of this games and this way i can enjoy the voice acting of both languages. 4 Honorable mention to Valkyria chronicles wich also gave me a hard time to choose and ended up deciding for japanese because i love Jun Fukuyama and Akio Otsuka. It was really good video with an aproach that i dont see very often since i havent see a lot of people talking about non-english speakers or about neutral language, wich is very prevalent in the spanish-speaking anime community. Try giving a latino american fan of anime a version of DBZ dubbed in spanish from Spain, spoiler it doesnt go well.

a side note, but さま(sama) is a honorific used for people you respect, either because you look up to them, or because they are someone important, such as royalty. It's gender-neutral. In anime, this honorific is sometimes used for comedic purpose - one example is from Lucky Star, where Konata calls Kagami as Kagami-sama as a "nickname". たん(tan) is a toddler speech equivalent to ちゃん(chan). Toddlers have trouble making certain sounds, so they pronounce ちゃん as たん instead. This toddler speech can also be used when an adult speak to a young child. ....wait, does that mean Subaru sees Emilia as a young child he wants to protect? I haven't seen Re:Zero, so I'll let the veterans decide :p

My biggest issue with translation is there are certain jokes or saying that don't translate well or don't make sense. The biggest ive heard is when my dad watched History of the world in Spanish, while the movie was still funny his least favorite song was the Spanish inquisition because it wasn't as funny in Spanish, once he learned English and rewatched in English did the series did it become comedic genius, another example is planktons Japanese dub , while in the U.S his voice sounds like evil genius, in Japan its strangely childish and girly taking away some of the punchlines. The only time I saw this done well was in Panty and Stocking dub, due to the fact that this series heavily parodied adult American cartoons , the Japanese couldn't make as crude as the Americans, but thats the exception more than the rule

On the neutrality point: As a German who is also very fluent in English, due to, let's be honest way too much internet use, the American accent is pretty neutral to me because I hear it so much on RU-vid and in Games and Shows. But I mostly just watch dubs when available cause I don't want my eyes to be glued to the lower 1/8 of the screen the entire time so I can actually watch the animation.

I say this as someone who was a major funimation fanboy, with the increased entitlement from the dubbing crew and their blatant hypocrisy with their own standers I’d rather all dubbing cease and burned from the earth.

Funnily enough, I just watched that entire Dimitri Monroe entire video dealing with this issue called "The Crimes Of Modern Localization" before I watched yours, and I think he very much hit upon my feelings on the subject quite well. Modern localization has become no better than official fanfiction, as localizers take it upon themselves to censor or rewrite a work, because they are, in their own minds, "improving" the product. Funimation and Crunchyroll have gotten really bad about this, and it has soured my taste on dubs completely in recent years.

That language neutrality argument encapsulated most of my opinion in a more eloquent fashion than I could have ever thought up on my own. My other reason why I don't really like most dubs is because for some reason, it always sounds like the actors are speaking from across a big empty, somewhat echo enhancing room or they're trying to shout at someone "without waking the neighbours" so it comes of as somewhat strangled. Another thing that makes me prefer subs is because I feel more invested in the story when I read it. I remember more if I'm watching actively than if I'm just letting it play out without my own effort. And then there's the issue of overacting to make it seem more cartoony in a work that's supposed to be serious or somber. I just imagined Ergo Proxy with the voices you did 🤢

My philosophy is to respect the creator by staying as true to the real translation as much as possible. If I was the creator, I would probably get mad if someone shoved their personal agendas into my creations, or thought they could make my creations 'better' by changing up the translation to their own preferences. At that point, it's no longer about translating and more about the localizer's ego. Who cares about lip flaps? The only time I'll probably look at someone's lips is if I wanna kiss them and 0/10 times that's the case because these characters are not real.

I prefer dubs for the simplest reason. I like to watch shows rather read shows. I'd rather not miss out on the amazing animation just because I have to spend 85-90% of the time staring at the bottom quarter of the screen just to understand what the characters are saying.

This will certainly be interesting. I'm a dub guy myself, mostly because I respect the massive amount of effort and length has to go into dubbing from a localization standpoint and an acting one. The Yakuza series, despite being a game, in my eyes has fantastic localization despite most of the series being in sub only. But I will admit, recent years have shown me what happens when people aren't dubbing to bring foreign entertainment to us for fun reasons. Funimation being a titan who's fallen from grace is a prime example of such nonsense. I'm curious to hear what you'll say

As a leftist I actually genuinely hate the “patriarchy” and “gamer gate” add ons in some dubs. If I wanted to read/watch something about these issues I’d look for someone who made something about it, not something that wasn’t intended to include these. It feels more like corporate pandering and not like a genuine decision by an artist. I want to watch something as close to the original as possible. I also think that it’s disrespectful to the original author. If I don’t like the message of a story, I’ll maybe word why and keep it at that, not change it or make inclusions I see fit. I feel like people either justify these changes with “wokeness” or blame it on it, but damn, I can tell you a lot of lefts it’s find this shit annoying and disrespectful.

When it comes to sub vs dub. It just seems so one sided as I have seen more people attack others for watching dub, I have seen people say there is no good reason to watch dub unless your lazy. I have some friends who are dubbed only cause that is there preference and due to that, I know what anime has a good or bad dub more often. Nowadays, dubbing has been a lot better then in the past and shows like love is war didn't get noticed for a good dub until months after it was finished. Sub watchers almost always bring out an example of cowboy beatbop, and ghost stories as good dub and use dragon maid as an example as why dubs are bad but it makes them look like they attack what they barely know with dubs. I'm a mix of sub and dub watcher. If I like a show enough, I'll watch both versions with a case with dragon ball, there are so many different takes on the series that I love exploring. Im so used to seeing original interpretation by the author that I want to watch stuff like the big green dub, ocean dub, and the original funimation dub of DBZ and experience as much as I can. That is probably why I'm not so strict on dubs and it being the only good experience and you have to watch it as its the most accurate version. I just find hating on dubs to be overrated.

Another hour vid from Natalie? Y’all already know it’s gonna be a juicy one

Time to move to Italy to make weeb friends XD One thing I’ve noticed is that English dub VAs don’t portray quiet or kuudere characters well. In Japanese they sound quiet but have layers of emotion underneath. In English often sounds bored or robotic. (Perhaps this is due to cultural differences in how quiet characters are interpreted.) This is one of the reasons why I prefer subs

Yay! Long videos are super nice! I’m happy you’re feeling better.

I think it should be obvious why people like subs and are very picky with translations, they want to have the full experience that is usually lost in translation. There is one thing that I hated back in the day was 4kids censoring shows making them confusing. As well as mangas with bad translation can be terrible for the reading experience.

You actully did a pretty good shonen boy voice with the Gandolf stuff

I like both :) I just dislike sub fans who disrespect dub fans for preferring a different language of THE SAME show. Like fine have your preferences but don’t attack others for there’s. Also great video as a guy who does prefer dubs generally you helped me understand a bit more about why people like subs so much :))

I am someone that mostly sees dubbed anime every time I have the option and I really enjoyed the video, it was like a reverse cartoon cypher video lol, the conclusion that anime translations can have about three target audience was something I never thought about it but made a lot of sense

another great video! your longer videos are pretty great, very well structured

Once again you created a great video essay. The fact that you add more than one perspective when dealing with such nuanced topics while being clear with what your stance is and how it should be dealt with is why I love your essay video. You don't try to be close-minded, which is something that I always strive for. Also, is there any chance that your future video will discuss the 86 anime? Since you have done a wonderful analysis of Attack on Titan's themes of racism and military, prevalent themes in 86, I was hoping to hear your thoughts. If not, it still fine because there is always Re: Zero content. :) Anyways I hope you have a good day.

I really like having a choice. Dub adaptations aren't perfect, but you have to remember subtitles aren't either. In the end I treat the choice on a case by case basis. I tend to watch more subs but unless a dub has a bad rep (or isn't already availlable / comes out late) I give it a try first. If it feels odd I switch to subs. The series where watching a dub tends to enhance the experience the most are comedies, I find, since reading a joke that works better heard is way less funny and could lead to synchronisation issues where you read ahead and spoil yourself what is going to physically happen on screen in a sec or two or the way the line is said is part of what makes it funny, which is easily lost in subs but is replicated in dubs. Also if a series boasts both incredible visuals and lots of dialogue it's hard to apreciate both at the same time while reading subs. I know I have a slight advantage when it comes to dubs. I'm french and know English well enough, so that's twice as many languages to chose from, meaning a higher amount of shows with a good dub. France is known for having high standards for dubs in general, I find. Other countries like Germany are sometimes more focused on quantity than quality, which has other benefits. I'm curently watching Monster's French dub, one of the best examples where watching a dub makes more sense since it's set in Europe and both English and French are closer in origin to the German used in canon. It's an edge case, of course, but it's not the only show where Japanese would not make more sense or there's no clear answer to what language would be spoken. In Carole and Tuesday all written texts and songs are in English. In Astra lost in space the story is set so far in the future that realistically any language could have been used by these imaginary future people. Fullmetal Alchemist? Any European language can work there a little better than Japanese can. There's also the cases of series where once you get used to one of the voice actors in a specific language it's really hard to listen to other interpretations because of the huge differences. Even years after last watching any episodes in the French dub of Pokémon it still feels weird hearing the comparatively mundane kid voice of Ash in the English dub and even weirder the one in the Japanese version. And it's not like I watched a lot of Pokémon as a kid: Ash's French voice is just THAT memorable to me.

I think it matters whether the characters in the anime are Japanese, in Japan. If so, then I think it's important to get across all the nuances that were there in Japanese, such as social status and relationship signifiers, even if no self-respecting English speaker who wasn't a hardcore fan of Japanese media would say the line in public. If not, especially if the anime is speculative fiction (sci-fi and/or fantasy), then I ask myself: "Would a native English speaker of the character's social status, personality, motives and relationships to the other characters in the anime or game, who didn't know any Japanese and wasn't a fan of any Japanese media, say it in that situation, to that character and in response to the last line of dialogue?" If not, the line just doesn't ring true or sound authentic and it feels like the character has no reason to say it, even if it's necessary to get across the nuances of the original line.

Some dubs are very bad, but I haven't heard a particularly bad one in a long time. I basically need dubs so I don't have to glue my eyes to the bottom third of the screen at every moment. I generally don't have time to sit down and do absolutely nothing except watch an anime, so if I'm doing chores and watching subs, I miss basically everything that's happening. Also it's interesting that American accents breaks your immersion for a Medieval setting, but you actually perceive a foreign language as neutral. I don't find it neutral at all. I just look past the immersion break. I also can't recall any English dub where the voice actor does a cartoonish performance, with the exception of shows that are already comedic or during a comedic moment.

Congratulations on getting past 10K on subs. I bet good money that you will be over 100K in a Year.

Thankfully you are better now~ branching content I see, I like it

this video says a lot of things that i was trying to put into words but failing! thanks ! now... if only i was not so lazy, i would translate it...

I'm a brazilian and our dubs are usually hold in very good regard by everyone, there is none of the animosity that the english dub receives. The difference i think is that the dubs here make the effort to keep the original meaning of the media being translated insted of "localizing" it. I'm a weeb since my teens and i'm one of those that will watch an anime just because it has a Seiyu that i enjoy, like Miyuki Sawashiro and Norio Wakamoto just to name a few, and i still like the dubs, in fact some anime like dragonball i can't decide which version i like better.

When you are weeb enough, you will start finding mistranslations in the subs. In dubs that's not really an option unless you are a native speaker or at least close to it in both languages.

For me one of the big reasons why I prefer subs over dubs is that the high pitch Kawaii female voice just sounds cringy in English. I also like to hear the expression in the original voice actors voice.

I like listening to your commentary while working around the house. Nice work.

I really love that you're creating more long-form videos. I always appreciate the coherence of your arguments, as well as the evident thought that is put into your work!

Hi Natalie great video as always!!! can't wait to see you opinion on Natsumi Schwartz.

many thank you for so many points that have enlightened me. My argument used to just be "because I grew up speaking the language" (made in Japan) and "I tried to listen to dub and it made me cringe", my arguments are weak, and in truth, I've concluded that I am thankful for dubs and/or subs, mainly because I remember the days when there were nobody to talk about Japanese animations, but today, there are many people whom when I say "You know, when Monkey Punch came to anime-convention, I was his translator when people came to ask for his autographs" people would say "Oh I love Lupin III". Whether good or bad translations and localization, I think it's a good thing if it started popularizing and people started passionately debating whether dub was better than sub or vice versa, people get passionate only when they care about the subject I think, also as long as it's not piracy and the anime studios earn profits, it's a good thing. Though there are many times I'd wonder "how are they going to translate X or Y?" (for example, I always wonder when a character speaks in kansai-ben, and do/will the audience get the cultural joke?) Just a side-note on your closing sections on fan-translation on light-novels, please research on the frustration that was tweeted by one of my favorite author Maruyama ("Overlord").

For me sub > dub for few reasons: 1) Acting, listening to dubs often feels to me like listening to audiobook - just reading script in 1 pitch and tone, no emotions included. In subs sometimes the seiyuu can bring out emotions out of someone as apathetic as me. 2) Politics, honestly Funi can buzz off, let's just ruin show and characters just so they can show up how woke they are. 3) I just prefer reading, and absorb to some degree 2 foreign languages, sometimes spot difference with translations. And tbh, I quite miss the fansubs, there were meme-tier ones, but also some really good ones, so everyone had choice which one to watch. And considering the competition, the quality was more often good than bad. Now it's just stick to CR (hit or miss), Funi (kill it with fire), Netflix (often atrocious, changing the entire characters, translating names). Dunno about other sources, but when you had quite a lot more choices, and trusted groups, you knew where to turn. Also, it's quite surprising that Re:Zero LN translation is soooo far behind in english, considering in Poland (where anime/manga/LNs are probably waaaaaaaaaaay more niche then in US/UK/other EU countries) will soon release volume 24 (with 1 volume/3 months pace).

Ah yes I remember translators notes in official translations, Horizon in the middle of nowhere is a really good show go watch it.

Personally I've always been partial to subs since they're common in my country to begin with, and also because Japanese sounded somewhat pleasant to my ear even before I actually started picking it up (the general phonology is pretty similar to that of my native tongue despite them being in completely different language groups). What acted as the sugar on top was noticing that the original FMA gave Alphonse's lines a little echo, like the sound was actually coming from an empty suit of armor. It's minor, to be sure, but I appreciated the additional effort.

Gotta say that restaurant analogy was amazing ❤️

Thanks for mentioning DeepL! You're the first RU-vidr I know of that knows of its existence.

As a French, I prefer translations with notes over localizations or dubs. For contextualization, we got our first introduction to the Japanese animation with really deplorable dubs which were changing a lot of places' name, characters' name or even sentence to "match" our country. Sometime adding voices where nothing was expected (Dragon Ball), making additional jokes (Hokuto no Ken or City Hunter), or removing content (Hokuto no Ken)… And to add more issues, the voice acting was more on the cartoonish gag side than necessary… Well, this was probably good enough for a child. But as I grow up, I couldn't ignore this anymore… Most of the time, I just don't like the quality of the voice acting dubs, be it in French or English… It seems to me that companies only make pro duds for western movies and a few Japanese's movies… :-/ As of now, even if I don't fully understand Japanese, I can feel when there is a mistake in the translation. So the localization would feel even more awkward… 😅

As an Italian myself I have to agree that anime is a great thing here in Italy. Even people who are the age of my parents are aware of what it is. I don't think a lot of them still watch, but they are very nostalgic when it comes to the anime and manga released during the '80s

Glad to see your back, has the hayfever gone away or has it just subsided just enough for you to make a video. On the topic of the video, I just hope the quality of subs improves a bit because it is rather offputting when there's a grammar mistake or if they're just flat-out wrong. I understand that in dubs you need to change words or lines to make them match the animation but it just doesn't feel right in subs.

"Metric System or other stupid one." Damn, shots fired and talk about perfect execution.

I do enjoys these long essay style videos

I'll fully admit, with how hard it was track down anime here in America in my youth. Born in the 80's. The thought of countries, other than Japan of course, having it aired on tv naturally never cross my mind. Insane how much of a difference that makes in how the country's society just accepts something like that or doesn't.

Honestly for me, in order to keep my stupid ADHD brain focused I have to read and hear something at the same time. Whenever I read books I have to have the audiobook playing in the background. And while I know some Japanese, it’s really only a few words and phrases, so I listen to the dub as well as having the English subs. It is a bit distracting when there’s a difference of wording but it’s the only way I can stay focused. There are many dubs I really like like the Danganronpa games (besides like two voices) and Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt. For me, the raunchy dub of PASWG fits really well because it was supposed to be a sort of mockery (?) of American culture, so changing it to be the way it is fits. Not to mention the fact that they m talk loud which is something we definitely do. It’s just more accurate the changed way. With the Danganronpa games, the characters voices fit and not much is changed besides that to my knowledge. Those are the kinds of dubs I like. I wouldn’t like however, if the characters voices didn’t match or if it was changed in ways that don’t make sense. For example, Danganronpa 3. The dubbing in there wasn’t great for me. They got some of the original VA’s but some of the voices just stuck out like a sore thumb to me. Take Chiaki for example. She sounds like herself, but she’s usually a very calm person and she just has too MUCH emotion in the dub. You could say that’s down to writing but with Fuyuhiko, he doesn’t give the same “I’m literally a teen who’s part of the mafia and I will snap if you mess with me” that I get from him in the game. He just sounds like an adult to me, which makes less sense cause he’s an adult in the game and a teen in the anime O-o

Is it wrong to say I like dubs when the anime takes place in more western settings? Like FMA or Hellsing, for instance?

I totally agree with non-neutrality part, as a fellow Brit. Another factor that you didn’t really touch on though that I feel is important is context of voice actors/Seiyūs. I find that I usually enjoy a sub better when I think the voice acting makes sense based on the original mangaka or story maker’s perspective of a character they might have designed and care a lot about. It’s this perspective that means I can enjoy the dub for Miyamura in Horimiya but I can’t do the same for Hori in that same dub because the sub makes her sound her age and the dub simply doesn’t do that, by no fault of the VA.

Only got into anime (relatively) recently through my wife (who is a life long anime fan and japanophile) and I had always struggled to enjoy subbed as much as I do dubbed, so never really bothered to try the former. I had difficulty understanding my wife's attachment to subs especially as she was happy just to watch dubbed anime with me. After watching your video I was able to talk with her about it with a greater grasp on what it all might mean to a more hardcore anime fan. I know it made her happy, and for that - I thank you.

i prefer subs in general but some anime i prefer dubs, like assassination classroom, black clover and date a live

Greeting from the Philippines. We prefer Subs than Dubs. Subs that are closer to the actual context of the conversation is waaaay better than an American Localized Dub/Sub.

Ok another banger? LET’S GOOOO

I think one limitation of the English language is with regard to regional dialects. In the original, some characters speak in a dialect from the Kansai region (there are different dialects within the Kansai region, but Osaka dialect is among the most common in anime). I could be wrong, but I don't think there is something equivalent in the English language that works just as well. Because of this, it's not unusual to see dubs where girls from Kansai end up speaking exactly like the other girls.

Glad to see you're feeling better. Your voice is soothing to listen to in the best way possible, and you clearly put a lot of thought and effort into these essay style videos, so seeing more of them on topics like this would be fantastic.

Appreciate your thoughts on translations, Subs, and dub. I had been only watching dubs cause of something I was born with it. Still, I have same thoughts as you for while when came to anime English dub. Love the video and wish you great heath.

You bring up solid points but dubs are more convenient. I can watch the anime + clean my room or something cuz i can understand what they say. That said, never knew they had changed it that drastically. I may try subs intentionally. Ive watched a few subs and the subs are distracting 😭

I completely agree with you. Most American dubs lack the flare that the original Japanese voice actors provided in the first place. Great American accents by the way.

the part were you mention how if someone were to chose from one foreign version to another rings so true for me. I'm not a native english speaker, and while dubs in my language existed, that stopped a while a go, so I've been consuming anime in sub form and manga in english for good while. and hearing the english dub is just alienating, it doesn't speak to me, my culture or my experiences, so a more literal translation is always the better option.

Japanese as a language has more expression at it's base making it as a whole feel more animated and expressive since expressive tones and sounds are literally interwoven into the speech itself. Studying Japanese I've had teachers tell me 'Don't say huh or what even in Japanese just make this sound people will know you are confused.' Which is where you get more of an expressive sounding character. Sentences flow more naturally in Japanese with how the characters are emoting on screen both because it's animated with Japanese in mind and because of the ability for the language to feel expressive while English is very straight forward and flat. Plus a lot of cultural jokes just don't land in English. Same with word puns...it's just not fun when they need to rewrite a joke in english poorly for it to make any kind of sense.

i think your channel is heading in a direction that will maintain itself... i love to see it!

After watching your video, I was able to see the Sub vs Dub debate with more objectivity. Things such as honorifics, the question of localized subs, and the neutral dub (as perceived by the audience) are important factors, and you made your case as to why you prefer subs in a very well written and elaborated way. If it's okay, I would like to share my story in regards to this. When it comes to anime, the Spanish dubs were always the most natural to me, whereas English dubs sometimes felt a little awkward. When I started watching the shows in Japanese, it was like entering a refreshing new world, where honorifics clued me into how characters related to each other, where characters spoke with a certain passion that I could never find in a translation, in which the characters felt more real because they were being presented in their most original state. Currently, it is incredibly important for me to see the Japanese version of any given show, and if only the English version is available, I am tempted to skip it until I find the Japanese one. Like yourself, I am currently learning Japanese, which I believe is a lifelong endeavor and adventure. Congratulations on learning Hiragana and Katakana, and I hope that, as you stated, you are able to learn Japanese quick enough consume light novels in their original language (perhaps if you learn just enough vocabulary and phrases to understand common dialogues and setting descriptions, that would be just enough to consume Japanese media, but a more nuanced mastery of the language would take a lot longer in my opinion). Thank you for your content. If it's okay, I would like to share a link to a parody video I made on the debate of subs vs dubs . ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H46VdzWF6Kg.html

This was very interesting to listen to. I admit I was a bit resistant when I first saw the title because the "elitist" label put me off. I like both, but I enjoy dubs because I can appreciate the art and animation more when I'm not glancing down at the bottom of the screen every few seconds. But I really appreciated the way you explained yourself, and you made me think about a lot of things I hadn't considered. I HAVE done the work of getting to understand a lot of Japanese cultural nuances like honorifics and such, so it does bother me now when both subs and dubs leave that stuff out, and there are certain shows where I prefer the sub because the dub is just too localized. But I also have friends who are much more casual anime fans than me, and when I recommend shows to them, I have to find out where there's a dub so they can watch it. So I understand the value of both. I want to talk about my favorite shows with my friends, even if they don't get all the cultural nuance.

I watch the dubs primarily because I can't focus on the art or background. I see your point on a neutral accent. I enjoy the art and can't focus on the subtitles and read them as fast as they go by.

Yeah, I agree. Subs are pretty good regardless of which country it's from. K dramas are enjoyed by my mother on its base language. Even though we speak different languages at least the cultural influences are highlighted and understood more in the original or as you call it the closest basic translation.

For me as an American, I feel like the reason I don't really like dubs is because people speak a little differently than they do in say, any American live action show. Though honestly, I didn't realize this until I played Genshin Impact with a Korean dub (one of the few games I know with one), where I had been listening to Korean voices in Korean dramas for a couple years.

51:45 there was a quote from the manga Bakuman that had the editor posing a question to the protagonists. The gist of it was that the female fans reading Shonen Jump came for an engaging Shonen manga, if you wanted to change it to target the majority female demographic, then it would be vetoed since that’s not what they came for. Same gist with the American anime translation market, I want to read and watch a Japanese product- if I wanted an American cartoon then I would watch one rather then their faux alteration. If I came for Ramen, I don’t want to be served kid cuisine Mac and cheese.

never would have thought i would be glad about drama but its let me find a reasonable channel thats willing talk about things in good faith, more detail and multiple points of view.

I'm not a snob for sub or dub in either direction - I watch and enjoy both. Typically I watch sub on new episodes and when I'm binging older series where dub isn't available. But when available, I will watch dub, and I have a number of reasons for that. The first is I'm very much what you might call an ADHD television viewer. It is in very rare instances that I can make it through even a 20-minute anime episode without me playing a game on my phone, skimming social media, or even browsing the wiki of the show I'm currently watching. Unless it's a series I'm heavily invested in (for instance, currently 86 is one of those shows), my brain refuses to give full attention to what I'm watching. Because of this, it is sometimes very easy to lose track of what is being said in the sub because my attention is split. To go along with this, sometimes even when I'm watching intently, I'll get so caught up on reading the subtitles that I'll miss what's going on elsewhere on the screen, meaning it can be very easy to miss things. The second is my wife and my oldest daughter hate sub, and about the only way I can convince them to watch shows I think they might find interesting is if they're in dub. Outside of new episodes, I have only successfully talked my wife into watching sub 3 times: Domestic Girlfriend (that's because we were forced to after VRV dropped HIDIVE, which is the only place I've ever seen the English dub for that, and my wife was desperate to see how the series ended so she put up with it); Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai/Dreaming Girl (dub simply doesn't exist, but that was a series she ended up loving to death); and The Irregular at Magic High School (where dub doesn't exist for the first season, but since I'm obsessed with that series she was doing it as a favor to me). However, it was also one of the big reasons why my wife didn't go with me to watch SAO Progressive in the theater - dub wasn't released widely in the Detroit metro area, and my wife didn't want to sit through 2+ hours reading subtitles. Third is there are instances where the dub is outright better than the sub, and I can think of three instances off the top of my head. The first is High School DxD, and it's not so much about the voice acting as much as it was about the intentional American localization they did to the dub - and, quite honestly, the added sophomoric and crude innuendos and jokes that just didn't exist in the sub made the show so much funnier - and kind of made it line up with the LNs more than the sub did. The second is Kaguya-sama: Love is War. Now, I don't have that opinion of the entire dub, as in general I feel the sub is much better than the dub. However, the narration of the series is so much better in the dub. Ian Sinclair knocked that out of the park. The third is the first 30 episodes or so of Black Clover. The biggest reason being Asta's VA overdid the screaming in the early part of the series to the extent that it turned off numerous viewers and dropped the series as a result, whereas the English VA did a much better job of controlling his voice where he really expressed Asta's overexuberance without overwhelming the viewer. It's actually recommended to people in the community that are struggling dealing with Asta's voice to switch over to English for the first several arcs. It also really helps that Black Clover has one of the more solid dubs out there. (And, for the record, I was desperate to watch Burn the Witch in an English dub where the VAs utilized a flat out Cockney accent - and trust me, I wasn't the only one that wanted that) Finally, there are a number of English VAs that I just really enjoy listening to, for instance, off the top of my head, Cherami Leigh, Brianna Knickerbocker (which is funny since you were mentioning Rem), Christina Vee, and, as mentioned earlier, Ian Sinclair. That being said, I don't mind "sub snobs" at all, and, if I ran my own Patreon/RU-vid reaction channel it probably would be sub-only reactions (and, for the record, I want nothing to do with that, and it's not just dealing with the bull**** RU-vid puts its content creators through. Right out of college I did an internship at a local TV station where I did a ton of script writing and video editing, and while that internship was a ton of fun, that was not what I would call "hobby fun"). What I don't appreciate (and I'm not accusing you of this because I know this isn't what you said at all - I'm talking about other people I've run across in various social media platforms) is actually the opposite of what you were getting from the dub community - those that are so serious in their "sub snobbery" that they look down on people that watch dub and sneer at them as if they're not true anime fans because they prefer dub. Dubs are made for a reason - because it expands the anime community. They wouldn't make dubs if there wasn't money to be made in doing so. It's these kinds of actions on both sides of the aisle that hurts the community as a whole when it's simply a matter of preference. You have very good reasons for not watching dub (and your argument that "neutral American English" is not a neutral English accent to those outside of America is a very good point I never thought of), just as I have very good reasons for mixing sub and dub the way I do. Neither of us are wrong - it just comes down to our preferences. Finally, for the record, you have a very lovely English accent that is very soothing to listen to.

I love these long videos so much they help me get through my work day

For me, the accent isnt as important as "does the voice fit the character." I tend to default to subs because of how many shows the voice doesnt fit the character to my ear. Bebop is a good example of when the voices can fit really nicely. The associations you brought up with your native language is a solid point, and while someone may love a voice actor another may hate them due to these associations. I go by ear, and how the performance feels with the character Im seeing partially determines which version I watch. For any that drastically change content, like Dragon Maid, I refuse to watch the English version. Upon you mentioning it I looked into Re:Zeros dubbed voices for a quick comparison, and while the softer voice for Rem kinda works, if the acting feels a bit off and you are right that an English accent like yours would fit more, Subaru doesnt sound right and its distracting. I did actually hear the dub first through commercials but Subaru himself kicked me hard out of the dub, so seeing him at the mansion was a bit more fair, even if I still think that voice doesnt fit him. Weird, that the commercial told me enough that Subarus English voice was a huge turnoff for that version of the show. Thats part of what makes native language entertainment tricky- the voice that someone has can be a distracting part of it, live action or animated. After deliberation I prefer usually translation to localization as explained in the video. Subs or dubs is dependent on which I watch first and the voices/acting, as stated before. Bebop works really well dubbed, even if there are reasons, and good ones, to prefer subbed. However, we have different things we prefer and that is part of why what the business should do is tricky to say. I personally want to learn more about the culture and the characters, and would rather what I can glean about it be left in where possible. As an entirely unrelated note, your accent and voice is very soothing. As an American Ill say I enjoy learning about other cultures, and the fact so much of English entertainment is American centered, accents included, is a problem from my view, and doubly so that its a niche within that demographic. Consider each state is functionally a country for a moment, and then consider how samey American entertainment feels overall in recent memory. Germany is about the size of North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia while Belgium is dwarfed by any one of those three. Sure, some like Australia, Russia, Brasil, and India are much fairer comparisons in terms of land. However, comparing settlements far apart in those areas are as silly as in America. The geography differences, the local culture differences, the cuisine, laws, the differences in the danger the wildlife poses... Hollywood loves making America look like one huge group of similar people, but even within the states there are various distinct cultures that see each other in wildly different ways. This is why the homogenization of media frustrates me so, as not only does it fail to respect how diverse other countries are, but it fails to expand on how diverse the area its focusing on is too. Some people love seeing how things get different as you expand from your little bubble, so focusing on such a narrow experience is disheartening.

I love these long videos that create discussion and especially your views around various things, love the recent content, keep it up! Glad I subbed a month ago!

I watch both. But I do prefer the subs version because most times some thing is always lost in translation when a show is translated outside of its original language

The way I see it, the answer to the debate should be "whatever works for the viewer".

While I hate a lot of the people that voice dubs as long as it sounds half way okay I find it easier to sit down and watch. Like it’s just more enjoyable to it rather than sitting down, watching and reading it. If you like subs that’s a-okay but just don’t hate on others for liking dubs.

I recall that Kaguya in Kaguya Sama said "Weak Sauce!" in the subs, and I was thinking that she probably wont say something like that since her character is kind of dense in trends. Also Im not even sure if that phrase is even a thing Japanese use.

I used to watch subs or dubs interchangeably just based on what sounded better in my ears but now I’m primarily watching subs with only old classic dubs or dubs that are about a decade or older that I can truly enjoy.

I am a fan of the Dub version as I just can enjoy the show more if I don't have to pull my focus from the visuals to read. I don't think I would have taken as much from Re:zero if I watched it in SUB. I am even in favor of some localization to make it work better in the new language. But I like the small things nothing major. An example I like is from my hero academia. To avoid spoilers of any kind during a fight between a villain and a hero. In the sub the villain refers to the Hero several times as Mr. Student. In the Dub the villain calls him "schoolboy" and even puts some stank on his tone when saying it to drive home he is talking down to him. I am not sure I would have gotten that my first time watch if I did that in SUB. I may have even found it odd why he was being so polite to the Hero calling him Mr. I am sure there is a good reason for that and if I understood Japanese culture more I may get it but I just don't. But at the same time I know there are issues with Dubs. I hate in Re:zero that they call her Ms. Emilia. I am not sure if this is a localization issue or if they did a direct translation because It should at least be Lady Emilia I feel.

great video! I'm an academic who sometimes deals with texts in translation, and many of the same questions arise. On one end of the spectrum you've got stuff like Stephen Mitchell's rendition of the Tao Te Ching, which he called a version instead of a translation bc he didn't even know Chinese when he made it. (I went through the original text with a native Chinese speaker, and Mitchell definitely takes some liberties!) On the opposite end, you've got stuff like Benardete's Plato translations, which try so hard to reproduce the Greek as literally as possible that they can be almost unreadable. This raises a hard question about what it really is to be literal. Plato's dialogues didn't sound bizarre & convoluted to his audience, but if we just port all the words and grammar directly into English, that's often how they come out. Arguably, a translator can better convey the thought of the author by using modern artifice to some degree. Dryden's Aeneid is a good example. Virgil's Aeneid doesn't rhyme, but it's a masterfully wrought poem. Maybe it makes sense to add rhyme for a society where that's a common poetic device. A lot of scholars, myself included, tend to prefer the more faithful stuff. Loose translations can be misleading in all kinds of ways. I suppose if reading the Fagles Iliad gets people into Homer, that's great, but you've gotta go to the (much more literal) Lattimore if you want to know what Homer was actually talking about.