My website: www.jordanbcooper.com Patreon: / justandsinner Twitter: / justandsinner In this video, I discuss Lutheran theology and why it is often unknown among Christians in America. I also discuss ways we can change this.
Growing up in the bible belt as an evangelical if anything looked, hinted at or could be mistaken as anything Roman Catholic, it was automatically rejected. Having said that, I believe the worst thing we can do as Lutherans is to abandon or back off on any of our practices in a misguided attempt to make our church more palatable for evangelicals.
Lutheranism is reformed or Evangelical Catholicism. The Lutheran church as a separate organization was an unintended consequence. Martin Luther's intent was to Reform the corrupt medieval Church NOT to start a new one. That's why Lutheranism has a Catholic fell to it. Luther only rejected elements of Roman Catholicism that were unbiblical and retained everything else. That's why Lutherans retained the Mass as well as other practices
@james c Some of the newer ACNA Anglican churches are surprisingly (at least to me) this same way too. Reduced liturgy, rejecting infant baptism (against their church's catechism and the 39 Articles), stating that the Eucharist elements are only symbolic (again, going against 39 Articles). Everyone wants to be just like the Evangelicals.
@@zacharybowen4247 Actually, there were few things he disageed with. A lot of his conclusions were for his own 'personal' inablity to feel forgiven for sin.. The biggest factor in the split was political, the princes of the German regions, saw a chance to break from obligatory tithe to the church. Reform was already on the way in the RCC church - IF both parties had sat and discussed through proper church polity, the reformation would have been a totally secular event -as was found in enlightenment that was going on already. This from Gordon, Dallas Theological ,and other Biblical oriented colleges..even though the bias against RCC taints their conclusion
@@zacharybowen4247- Including the retention of the misogyny, racism, and homophobia of the Iron Age biblical text, and a belief in genocidal god that advocated for the rape of women and children, and murdered the entire population of the world in a petulant fit of rage, except for Noah and his incestuious family, to show his love
non denominational evangelical here - we have our first meeting with a lutheran pastor next sunday to consider making the switch. thank you for your influence.
I’m Catholic…I think these other denominations are so popular because they “sale out” to being “entertainment” as opposed to actual liturgy. It’s like being at a rock concert with “cool” musicians playing their big name-brand instruments under the colored light show…followed by Pastor cool talk-show host with his long-sleeved denim shirt un-tucked and sleeves rolled up slightly… cracking jokes and tying in puns, and being “clever” for 45 min. with very little scripture actually read. And all the people sit there listening as they sip on their mocha frappe or coffee that they purchased in the church lobby/foyer. Then the “rock band” gets up there one more time to energize the people. Then they all leave saying, “wow, I didn’t feel like I was in church at all” … all happy that they got their monies worth that day because all and all it was “a good show”. The Pastor goes home trying to figure out how he can top it next week. A meeting like that may be fine but the least they can do is not call it “church”. Christ didn’t say, ”have a rock concert and entertainment and mocha frappes in memory of me”.
I was Roman Catholic till my late 40s, grew up in Kansas, tons of Lutherans. No idea what Lutherans believed until I stumbled across RU-vid videos. I'd have been Lutheran years earlier if I had more information. Your videos are making a huge difference! Thank you!
@@YourBoyJohnny94 too much focus on secular politics. I also could no longer buy the idea of a 'few bad apples'. It was sad. I'm Irish so that was like losing a part of my cultural identity. I didn't leave because of doctrine. I didn't feel I could continue supporting the Church in good conscious.
As a non-denominational Protestant, I’ve learned about Lutheranism almost solely through your channel and other RU-vid videos and am now considering making the switch. I agree that today RU-vid and social media are essential forums for reaching out to people so they may better understand your message.
Also, I will be attending Dartmouth this fall and will certainly be joining CU so I am quite glad to hear you put your time and energy into such a great organization!
I don't understand the word non-denominational -- do you attend a church? wouldn't attending a church make you a member of that denomination even though they might call themselves non-denominational. You have to share something in common -- what are the common items?
@@johnmarquardt1991 While I currently attend a Presbyterian church, I do not hold to enough Presbyterian-specific ideas, if any, to identify as Presbyterian. To be frank, when I've seen people (including myself) identify as non-denominational, it essentially boils down to not identifying with a specific denomination. The reason(s) for not identifying vary from person to person. For me, it is a matter of not holding to enough (or any) Presbyterian-specific ideas and only holding to ideas held to by many or all denominations, depending on the ideas.
I'm a pretty new convert to Lutheranism, there is a huge branding issue for American Lutheranism. When I was in the "Hallway" (coming from southern Baptist headed towards orthodoxy,) my understanding of Lutheranism as an outsider was basically the ELCA, and some state churches. I.e. LCMS, WELS, etc. brand them selves as Missouri or Wisconsin churches when they are in reality nation wide. I live in VA and when I first saw this, I just scratched them off the list.. at first. This also makes them appear as a subsidiary to the ELCA church which is clearly a national body and I have no interest in the ELCA. It is a pretty infuriating experience and I almost over looked Lutheranism for alternatives because of it. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, etc. they advertise their conservatism, their traditionalism, their orthodoxy on the tin. Lutheranism hides it behind the hyper prog ELCA and in a more grand perspective, behind the reformed churches because they're scared to appear to "Roman." Additionally it worries me that the Lutheran leadership in the conservative churches simple will not see the trend towards sacramentalism and orthodoxy coming. They are in the perfect position to intercept Westerners heading towards orthodoxy or away from Catholicism with their troubles but the only people who know the differences between ELCA and the more conservative Lutheran churches are Lutherans them selves or people like my self who bother. Bring on the O(rthodox)LCA
@@angelbonilla2255 I depends on what you mean by evangelical. The Lutherans were the first Protestants to be known as evangelicals, but the word has been hijacked by modern American Evangelicalism, whose definition of evangelical is very different from the Lutheran definition of evangelical.
@@sarco64 Not really. American evangelical Protestants continue the false doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura that Luther invented far more fervently than do modern day Lutherans and other mainline Protestants. Modern mainline Protestants might say, as Dr. Cooper does, that maybe sola scriptura is not totally true and we can look a little at the Church Fathers, and modern mainline Protestants are increasingly willing to throw in a little common sense and say, wait a minute, faith does not give us license to murder, fornicate, and commit other sins
I came to lutheranism less than a month ago by accident. I've been telling my friends that if they understood or had access to this theology, they'd be forced to do some deep searching. I do understand why Lutherans can be hermits and I don't think excessive marketing is the solution. Unfortunately with much marketing come many challenges to uphold doctrine and things like that i.e. ELCA. I'm thankful for your channel, ATP and other guys like Wolfmueller and Issues etc. I'm excited to attend the Issues etc conf in June and already have spoken to the Director of ALTS and should start this year. Keep up the good work brother!
As an Anglican i just dont agree. Churches grow when they stop holding to the forms that were used 500 years ago but continue the teachings. PPL just dont get the form. Its like the whole church speaking in tounges (1 Corithians 14:23) they think you are out of your mind.. stuck in past.. change the wrapping of the present..but keep the present the same
@David Ortiz Jesus Christ said himself that He came as a sword that will divide (Matthew 10:34). While Christian unity is good and Godly, we to accept division for the sake of God's Word and Truth. The Roman Church has, over thousands of years, fallen away. Martin Luther, by the power of the Holy Spirit, restored true Christian tradition.
The ceremonies are a bit weird and the doctrine of transfiguration is a bit weird but most of the rest of his doctrines I agree I also think he was a prophet not a perfect prophet but one who delivered God's people from the tyranny of Roman Catholicism
One of the reasons I came back to the Lutheran church was because I had to decide what I believed about baptism. Attending a baptist church will slowly eat away and confuse what you believe and eventually guilt you in to doubting the efficacy of baptism. When my parents confronted me about getting my daughter baptized I had to go digging. Praise the Lord for channels like this and Worldview everlasting. If we could get some of our best minds to debate McAurthur and Piper on issues like baptism, I wonder if that would really help carve out a space for us in the marketplace of ideas.
Jordan Cooper, Gene Veith, Rod Rosenbladt, and Bryan Wolfmueller vs. John Piper, John MacArthur, Michael Brown, and Albert Mohler. That would be a good debate!
I have been trying to understand infant baptism and how faith grows in children, struggling with feeling uncomfortable by having the effects of infant baptism 'plastered' onto me with no choice of personal response to Jesus Himself. I decided to study everything that the N.T. teaches about infant baptism and note all the salient verses about it.This I did faithfully but to my surprise found not even one verse. Astonishing! The testimony of Scripture is that baptism is a response to the gospel message which is preached - 1 Peter 3:18-22. This is the work of the Holy Spirit in our heart (John 3: 3, 5-8) bringing us into a relationship with Jesus our Saviour which changes us, causing our spirit to flame into life and grow into conformity to Jesus Himself. We are changed!
Francis Chan's most recent book, Letters to the Church, reads like a critique of Evangelical, Reformed, Protestants and almost sounds like a push for Lutheranism. In fact, I read that book and it pushed me to begin seeking out a liturgical, confessional Lutheran church.
I'm a member of a Presbyterian church- found Lutheranism through an LCMS divine service on RU-vid. Was intrigued by the chanting and went down the Lutheran rabbit hole (including purchasing stuff from CPH)...
I’m a 51 year old female from the south. I just completed my catechism classes and became Lutheran. I wasn’t aware of this faith growing up and I feel I missed out on so much.
Hi Jordan. I'm reformed baptist by persuasion and my eldest daughter is a member of a Lutheran church. Your videos have been very helpful for me to better understand Lutheran distinctions compared to reformed baptist and reformed presbyterian perspectives. Thank you, and grace to you, brother.
This is great. I was just asking my Lutheran brother the same question last night. In Sunday School (I’m a Presbyterian) we will always consider the Dispensational and/or Roman Catholic views alongside reformed as though Lutherans do not exist. Thankful for your channel. Very edifying
This video is from several years back now. I really appreciate the content here, as you say, Calvinism has defined the conversation. I am learning so much by going through them. Thank you. 🤝
I never knew anything about Lutheranism before I heard FFTF. That lead me to my small Lutheran church, to the seminary and finally to your channel! So I'd say yeah social media has changed the game quite a bit.
@@ThatsMyChad Nice, how does one get into that line of work? I also like languages, I speak spanish and some french. I thought about increasing my abilities in these languages as well as others. Do you think technology will soon solve language barriers, I heard this recently.
Pray Unceasingly I have no faith for technology to solve the Japanese one. It’s one of the last contextual omission languages (if someone was previously stated in a conversion or chapter, even months ago, it’s omitted and marked with a particle. So technology would have to be psychic to figure it out). It’ll probably be able to help quit a bit with western languages but we don’t really have much in the way of translational issues between them as it sits. And I just lived in the country long enough and got good enough to become a proof reader for a tattoo shop, and that bled into me translating the book of Romans from the Aland text. So I figured I’d make a go of translating the whole thing!
Just a quick note/thought that maybe you could expound upon. Considering your thesis today, I remembered when I was younger how the older folks would discuss how they needed to keep quiet in society because of the World Wars. Obviously they were from Germany. Before the wars there were many German speaking areas and Lutheran areas that were quite prominent. I think the societal toll of being German in the early 20th century helped take us into quietness. Again there is a lot more to it, but that is a point to remember in my opinion. Also, I have noticed that, currently, the louder voices for strong Lutheranism (liturgical/confessional) actually come from another background and through study came to the realization the strength of the Confessional/Liturgical Lutheran life.
This is an interesting thought. As someone who is new to the Lutheran church, I was told my whole life that Lutheranism is just Roman Catholic with the parts they don't like thrown out. I was taught against baptism of babies and that the "doctrine of Lutheranism" is all man-made. I have a better understanding now but people like Roseburough, Steve Kozar, your videos, etc, helped me move toward Lutheranism.
I'm presently reading 'The care of souls' by Harold Senkbeil. Because he is Lutheran (and an excellent writer), my interest in Lutheranism has been kindled. I'm from the Netherlands. There are some Lutheran churches here, much more than I'd ever known. While I am of a different denomination, that does not stand in the way of respecting any differences and embracing what we do have in common, notably expecting justification because of what Christ has accomplished. And there's a lot of grace in the way you speak, calmly and with clarity, not in a feverish manner.
Ha! This was me... lost in the charismatic movement for a couple of decades and then stumbled across Wolfmeuller and Rosebrough on RU-vid about a year ago. Last Sunday, I was baptized in the Lutheran Church Canada. So it does happen! Thanks be to God!
Nicely done as always! I attend a Mennonite Brethren church but am basically a non-denominational Christian. I really had no idea what a Lutheran was until I stumbled across your channel. You have piqued my interest and I really enjoy your teaching!
My first Lutheran congregation was *very* insular, and heavily resistant to the idea of engaging with the community, except in very limited ways, and I think a lot of that was driven by the Norwegian/German roots of most of its multigenerational families. They were comfortable with things, as they were, and that's how they were going to stay.
Very good points. I'm from a fundie credobaptist tradition, but fascinated by Lutheran thought. Places like Crossway/TGC have easily accessible websites, broad distribution networks, and tons of supporting media. Lutheran resources are, by contrast, very hard to find.
Jordan - I'm reformed baptist in my theological persuasion, but I've benefited greatly from your podcasts, which I came across in just the past few months. Before you the only other Lutheran I listened to was Chris Rosebrough (Fighting for the Faith). Yet his work is focused on charismania. Your work in presenting Lutheran thinking, and related doctrinal (and even philosophical) considerations has been intriguing and valuable. I'm not persuaded to embrace Lutheranism, but thank you, brother, for what you're doing. Grace to you in our Lord Jesus Christ.
you know what will work pastor: debates, and apologetics on the youtube, that will get us on the map definitely. that's what got me into Lutheranism after watching pastor Rosebrough debate Jim Staley.
As a lifelong LCMS Lutheran, I didn't realize until I reached adulthood just how downright SNOOTY and "holier than thou" we often come across as to others! It is shameful, really, and needs to be addressed. It is almost as if we become prideful because out doctrine is sound... turning a blessing into sinful behavior
The thing which hooked me about Lutheranism was the law/gospel distinction. I have listened to C.F.W. Walther's teachings on the subject, and they have helped clear the fog I had about faith vs. works. Currently attending an LCMS church.
Your podcasts are clear and apposite. There are not many Lutheran churches here in South London - there is one in Orpington and the minister is friendly. I have learned about Lutheran theology from you - there is a great deal of anti-Martin Luther propaganda on social media - mainly very superficial in nature. Thank you for your teachings.
I grew up non-denominational and my husband in the SBC. I have been trying to understand and learn more about Lutheranism. I went to a Christian college and learned about lots of evangelical faiths, but not about Lutheranism. I always associated them more with Catholicism. And we did learn about Catholics. Interesting to think about. Recently found your channel. Thank you for what you do. And I also would say that I NEVER see Lutheran books in Christian bookstores or what not. I recently discovered the website that sells the books. I agree with you on the expense. It's a bit frustrating.
Hi Jordan! I'm so glad I came across your video on this topic. I recently joined in on a collaboration effort between my church and 2 other nearby churches (we're all ELCA Lutheran) and a question I raised within our discussions is, "Do people generally know what a Lutheran is?" Growing up in an area where everyone is Catholic or Jewish (and then everything else after that) - I've found that Lutherans are a bit of a mystery to many people. I'm praying we can change this for the future and that Lutheranism builds a larger voice in our society. Thank you for your videos! Peace be with you.
The question is: Is the ELCA still Lutheran. They have rejected the Lutheran Confessions and do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. I'm sure there are still Lutherans in the ELCA - but the number is growing slim.
A very edifying thought! In my case, it was through your work among others that I learned that there was something like confessional Lutheranism out there. In the case of Germany, the name "Lutheran" is, in my opinion, itself a problem due to the Evangelical German State Church (EKD). It is in this group that one thinks first when speaking of "Lutheranism" and I think this makes it quite difficult for someone here to think of confessional Lutheranism as an option; simply because I don't think many know that it exists or what that might mean. The two confessional Lutheran groups (SELK and ELFK) are relatively small. From my own experience, when I was trying to escape from the evangelical(leaning to charismatic)circles I was in and looking for a more traditional church, what I mentioned earlier with the EKD made me not even consider Lutheranism as an option and like many others leaving evangelicalism, I went straight to the East (orthodoxy). Today I am a happy Lutheran, a communicant member of the SELK and establishing good contacts with the LCMS overseas mission in Kaiserslautern. I am convinced that many Westerners who are turning to Eastern Orthodoxy could have found in confessional Lutheranism what they were looking for and needed, if they had known about it in the first place. This is just my own opinion, but one that has been strengthened throughout listening to the reasons why many evangelicals and protestants decide for orthodoxy in the first place; also in close circles.
Hello Dr. Cooper! Excellent video, I agree with you that Lutherans need to be better known and appreciated within the Christian community. I am a Brazilian Reformed Baptist, and I only know about Lutheranism through your videos, and I have learned to greatly appreciate your position! It really is worth the effort to step out of the bubble and become more popular. One of the challenges, in the Christian context, is to value doctrinal points more than aesthetics, and if that happens, the Lutheran doctrine will certainly have much to contribute. Grace and peace, know that I pray for your ministry.
I found confessional Lutheranism because I felt my theological perspectives weren’t respected within the Church of England. There was too much diversity to nail down exactly what was being believed and too much tolerance of entirely heterodox positions. I’m so glad to hopefully be starting the process of joining the ELCE. God bless! Love the videos and the podcast!
It's interesting that here in Brazil happens the same things you said in the video, the Lutherans sometimes seems to hide themselves from the others, even the books like you said aren't easy to find to buy them. I agree with the solutions you said and I think that Lutherans need to use better the social medias to promote this incredible theology.
Great informative video for all. As a former teacher I made the decision to study all mayor religions of the world in order for my students to feel validated with my knowledge of their beliefs while teaching in advocate schools. I am also European\American and very aware of the damaged done throughout history while holding sacred scriptures. I believe in God and yet, I allowed the evil that I have witness separate me from my Creator until I realized that I needed to change my perception of the world and people. I have now found the faith that best fits who I am. Thank you for the video and also for the work you do with the poor and vulnerable in our society. I believe in giving hope and restoring the broken instead of any form of hate that has been separating us since our beginnings. We are one nation under God but too often forget that and we allow other factors to separate us. Thank you for the good you do in the community and keep up your good work.
I have, to some degree, considered either the East or Rome, honestly, solely based upon the idea of apostolic succession, but have concluded that the notion of AS is neat, but not actually necessary based upon many words of the fathers, as well as my belief that nobody else competes with Confessional Lutheranism with regards to purity, clarity, sensibility, and lucidity of doctrines in general.
Have you listened to "Scholastic Lutherans" RU-vid channel's audiobook of Piepkorn's "A Lutheran View of the Validity of Lutheran Orders"? Now when members of the Pope's sect bring it up, I can assure them that we actually do have apostolic succession, even according to many Papal scholars.
I appreciate you and what you do!!!! I also love Bryan Wolfmueller and now I’ve discovered FLAME. I, for one, had a hard time finding anything much, and now, because of hearing, from Wolfmueller about the Book of Concord, (Concordia Readers Edition), we are visiting Lutheran churches and will no doubt end up in one! (WELS) So, thank you for your work!
Tough but to crack! As a Christian for years I had NO IDEA the confessional Lutherans were even a CHURCH! Thank God I was introduced to a local LCMS Church that I had no idea even existed. Godspeed and God's peace be with you.
The Internet has help change that a little. I discovered Lutheranism through the Rev. Jonathan Fisk RU-vid videos and Issues, Etc through his "Issues, Etc question of the week." From there it expanded out to Pr. Bryan Wolfmueller, and Hans Fiene (Lutheran Satire). Jordan Cooper came later after already being a Lutheran. There are others, Higher Things comes to mind also. Lutheran churches weren't even on my radar, and we were willing to visit just about any Protestant church while vacationing except for a Lutheran Church. I think Dr. Cooper is correct in his reasons why still today our theology goes unnoticed.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Evangelizing without loss of doctrine is the key. Our world has changed and would love to be a Lutheran Laymen and help however I can.
I was formerly reformed, and am now a member of the LCMS. This is a self-inflicted wound on the part of Lutherans. Much of the Lutherans' problems in the areas discussed in this video are self-inflicted. I want to scream "Accept that you should be part of the Evangelical movement!" The excuses I hear from my LCMS friends relate to the Lutheran position on baptism or communion. Let's be honest; the evangelical movement embraces Baptists and Anglicans, Dispensationalists and Reformed, Arminianans and Calvinists, Charismatics and non-charismatics. There's room for us, guys. The problem with the "there's more of us than them" complaint that there are more Lutherans than Calvinists is that a lot of Calvinists are in non-confessional Evangelical churches. They'll pay attention to what the PCA has to say, even if they're not in that denomination. Since Lutherans refuse to even talk to anyone outside their confession, nobody in a non-Lutheran church pays attention. We're knee-capping ourselves. There's no one else to blame. And we're denying the larger community our insight. They won't agree on everything, but they will be sympathetic to us and consider our position, should we stoop to join them.
This is an absolutely wrong position. You have to read and study deeper so you 'll be informed of what ''evangelicalism'' really is. After you do it, you 'll be tougher on this issue than we are. No, we are not part of the ''evangelical'' movement. Absolutely not.
@@shellieperreault6262 Engagement does not require watering down theology. I know of no Lutheran equivalent to Ligonier Ministries. I love John Warwick Montgomery, and praise God for him, but he's almost 90. I know of no younger Lutheran apologists on the level of William Lain Craig or Bishop Robert Barron. I can list Baptist and Reformed contemporary recording artists, but I don't know any Lutherans. None of these people or organizations water down their theology. But they do engage the contemporary culture.
@@josephparks4270 Respectfully, engaging the popular culture is not what we as Christians should be doing. We are not here to live a "pious" parallel life next to the utterly corrupt life of this sinful world. We are here to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ who forgives our sins and offers us salvation. Life in the Word is the life we desire to live, now and for eternity, in the embrace of the whole church and in fellowship with all believers. it's not "cool" and it's not the easy road but it is something much more important than the temporal world and it definitely needs to be proclaimed as something different and more worthwhile. It is literally a life and death issue.
I grew up in a step-family that had Lutheran roots. However, my step-father for whatever reaason sort of drifted into a pan-Protestant lifestyle and shifting Protestant allegiances that made us lose our Lutheran bearings early on. In fact, my own memory of childhood Lutheran worship is rather hazy and my half-bother and half-sister simply were too much younger than I even to recall those Lutherans days of the family. When I went into the Navy, I was among a minority of sailors who were devout. When I encountered a zealous Lutheran (Augustana Synod), I was startled and impressed with his Lutheran faithfulness. That experience lingered with me a long time and had something to do with my return to Lutheranism. Confronted with somebody who truly lived and believed as a Lutheran, when I enountered Lutheranism more doctrinally later, I felt impelled to return to the faith of my early childhood.
I am a 71 year old woman who really appreciates being connected to the Church and my own denomination through the internet. Without going into the reasons, I believe God has provided connections for Believers such as I through this medium. I found a congregation of MO Synod in IA which broadcasts Bible Study as well as Worship. I downloaded a reader and a digital copy of Divine Worship Book from Amazon so that I can follow even though the text and the hymns are on the screen. There are so many resources on RU-vid. The Lord has provided (in my opinion) to share Scripture and a Lutheran Witness on my own page as I trust the Holy Spirit to lead. He will give us opportunity - as I thank Him so much for your "classes" - if we just open ourselves to Him. "Think outside the box" as the World says - well that goes for His people too
100% RIGHT Pr Cooper... Lex Lutheran here. Yea, we have did and continue to isolate our-self. Some of us are out here trying tho. And I thank you for your effort
I was raised Lutheran (elca) and then became reformed baptist . The reformed and the charismatic where the ones that were active when I was in college. Then i attended a reformed Presbyterian run seminary with Anglicans, Baptist’s, and list of other denominations.Reformed methodology is use across denominational lines. I think the cross denominational methodological use is because the method is structurally similar to modernism and it’s methodological categories. I could be wrong on this though.
HEY! As a lay, we are here trying. I agree with all your pts. Some of the Lay attempts could benefit from support or s/o from the big guys.... jus my take.. Pax, Lex
After seven decades as a practicing, confessional semi-orthodox Lutheran, I feel that the Germanic history and reputation of what I've always termed "command and control" religion still exists in the U.S. five hundred years post-reformation. Yes, we do get lumped in with the RC's mostly because of the real presence in the Eucharist and infant baptism. We need to do a better job at the parish level of teaching why those beliefs are true BUT without insulting or purposefully antagonizing Christians of other doctrines. This is done far too often from using a southern drawl to mock a Baptist preacher or making fun of the Roman Catholic traditions when the pastor (and leaders) fully know many converted Catholics are within their presence. Let no one ever tell you that a converted Christian leaves each and every doctrine of their former faith behind....and doing so may in fact be one of the main reasons Lutheran theology does not move outside of the sanctuary any better than it currently does. We can be so sure of being right that we become weapons of the Gospel rather than the shepherds gently guiding his sheep and not beating them spiritually, mentally or physically as is done in the awful practices of "church discipline" (especially when denying that sinner somehow deemed worse than the sinner inappropriately judging AND sentencing them to be banned from the Lord's Table) and yes, closed communion. I have seen so many former members leave my childhood parish over these two issues and finally, when a pastor told us that another Lutheran (my son's fiancé) could not commune with us and the son vowed never to return I really did my homework in Concord and Scriptures and left in 2006 to an LCMS parish that practices no such wicked and hurtful things). We can do better; we must do better in order to fully obey and honor Jesus's last recorded words in the Gospel of Matthew. As to being involved in organizations with other Christians, my wife and I have long studied with the Bible Study Fellowship (BSF) so the interactions and debates, while discouraged, do invariably occur and it's up to the Holy Spirit to use my words and witness to God's glory and I leave it at that. Thank you for this discussion....it's a tough one to forward but necessary. Soli deo gloria! I enjoy both your podcasts as well as Pastor Wolfmueller's even though we obviously do not agree on each and every point of Christian/Lutheran doctrine....and being more than a bit wary of the adiaphora which can only divide and never save, which can be the 'stumbling block' we are warned of. Oh, and don't get me going on the new CPH literature on closed communion where putting up stumbling blocks to the faith is actually supported......oy vey. Reading that pamphlet ALONE will drive a lot of folks away and many before they even get into the sanctuary.
Growing up in Wisconsin and now attending a Lutheran Church, you basically have three options: Lutheran (you're german descended), Roman Catholic (hispanic or your family is already Catholic), and any of the other hole in the wall Baptist/Pentecostal/Non-denom churches (approximately 1 per every 3 bars)
I get frustrated with the CPH website because I can't take a peek inside the books! We are in the beginning stages of homeschooling and would like to take a look before we buy and spend the money. They need a huge website update and brought into today with their artwork in their books. Thanks for the video. Great thoughts.
I agree Amy, my wife is going to be homeschooling our son soon and this is also an issue we see. I’m grateful for CPH but they seemingly hoard content and gouge pockets to no end.
@@eduds6 Sure? I mean, in several areas I'd say they're already there. Doesn't mean LCMS doesn't suck at contemporary communications and marketing practices. St. Louis is really bad because if it's modern, it's a threat to our staid traditionalism. Correct in theology and practice, bad at local missions/evangelism, corporate communications, and customer service.
One of my biggest complains about confessional lutheranism is that it is really, really, really hard to find good, didatic and beginner-friendly material of confessional lutheran theology, which, I think, the reformed community does really well and that is why they are seen more than the lutherans in the internet. I grew up in a lutheran church in Brazil and it seemed to me that they didn't worried about explaning why things are the way they are. I had to look for answers on my own about lutheranism. And, surprisingly for me, I found mostly reformed websites talking about lutheranism or Luther. Only one or another lutheran website, with a very poor structure, talking about what I searched written for experts... That is very disappointing
One thing that I've noticed in my area is the lack of ethnic diversity at my local LCMS churches. I'm currently attending an Assemblies of God affiliated church. That being said I'm very interested in the LCMS and God willing, I will visit a local LCMS church soon.
And as far as the books go....they are expensive but they are often given as gifts and are passed down like heirlooms in my family-maybe that helps explain....
Thought provoking video....as 4th generation LCMS I don't feel comfortable with mass marketing and full integration into the greater Christian community but I do think it's important to have representation in the forums which you mentioned....I wish we had service where I live in German although I know that might be seen as exclusionary....change has to come slow or not at all....
Thanks and yes I agree. But a lot of churches in the Midwest offer service in German in addition to English. I live in CA where it's not as common....you can find the German services on the LCMS website....
From Australia. By and large, Lutheran communities are in the winery districts of South Australia and a farming area of Queensland. But finding anything much about them is very difficult, and it's even harder to discover Lutherans elsewhere. There's meant to be a Lutheran church a couple of suburbs away from where e live in Sydney. A search shows a home page, but apart from the address, the page gives no details, not even service hours. Going to the address given reveals a house typical of others nearby, but no sign at all.
I am a confirmed Lutheran. However, I attend a restoration independent church. The LCMS church I was attending had little to no parishioners. Most of them were elderly and retired. A great bunch of people. The issue was that any Bible study or growth group activity was done during the day, and on weekdays. Made it virtually impossible for me and my wife to attend, as we both work. I felt bad leaving, but there are really other Lutheran churches in the area. The few that are available, have the same issue.
A brilliant thinker, and one I have always enjoyed reading. However, I think his form of process Theism (though I recognize that he would not use that language) is problematic. I'm a strong proponent of Classical Theism.
Hello from Turkey.Ex-muslim here.I did join a presby church in my hometown and i got educated there.I was baptised too!Now I will go to Istanbul for a living.There is a Lutheran Church and I am planning to attend liturgies in that church.How do I understand that it has similarities between WELS or LCMS?I dont want to attend an ELCA like church.Pastor is from Finland I believe.
I’m not a Lutheran, but I love listening to your podcast and watching your videos. I’ve learned so much. I regularly engage in groups that deal with theology, and I’ll try to bring Lutheran beliefs into the discussion. It usually gets ignored. It frustrates me to no end. I believe the Lutheran view of the atonement - with objective and subjective justification - is spot on. That’s exactly what I saw in the Bible, even before learning about Lutheranism.
As an Evangelical with a strong affinity for tradition and Confessional Protestantism I truly believe that some of these issues are best addressed with more participation in social media. There should be more Anglicans and Lutherans engaged in the public debate. There is so much to learn from your traditions that greatly enrich our understanding of the Gospel. Nondenominational and Evangelical churches have a strong presence because they look to preach the Gospel as far and wide as possible, that zeal I believe is sorely lacking in the older traditions save perhaps Catholicism. If Protestants could interweave the theological strength of the Lutheran-Anglican side and the zeal of the Evangelical side there could be a potent recipe there.
I've looked and looked at so may different denominations teachings and running out of choices that i can agree with. Not that i am the authority or is my interpretation, scripture is. Out of so many and much diligence i am left with few choices. There is much comfort in Lutheran teaching and so much that seems so foreign and hard to grasp. Sometimes i wish i could have someone sit down and convince me through scripture and reason that it is at least close enough.
Great videos my guy. I'm Pentecostal, and like Lutherans to an extent, we are misunderstood/ignored--even though we constitute a massive, and increasing portion, of the Christian population worldwide. We're lumped in with Charismatics, Evangelicals, Apostolics, and just considered some weird offshoot of Protestantism.
Hello,pastor.thank you for your sharing.I am a Chinese Christian in Japan.There is no Chinese Lutheran church here.Even in China, there are almost no Lutheran churches.There are also very few Chinese books and online resources about Lutheran.I hope that the Chinese christian can learn more about Lutheran.
Same in Greece. No lutheran community here. Only some (0.2% of the total population) stubborn and americanized ''evangelicals''. It 's so frustrating we are alone without church community, sacraments, pastors.
If your japanese is okay (assuming you're still in Japan), there are japanese lutheran churches around. In my experience they are quite welcoming to other christians joining them for sunday service (granted I am lutheran and only met the ones in Kyoto and Toyonaka/Osaka).
Digging into the Confessions, the expensive CPH books, and church history is hard. We're also not nearly as good of polemicists as the Roman/Eastern churches--we've been letting the Reformed do our work for us, and no wonder people find out about Reformed theology.
Nadia Bolz-Weber is pretty famous, popular, smart, and has brought me to considering the Lutheran faith, after wandering for years. Raised Christian, dabbled in eastern religions, agnostic leanings. I like the episcopal faith. Nadia Bolz-Weber brought me to considering the Lutheran faith. If I convert, it will be because of her. Thank you for your videos.
J. I. Packer’s “Last Crusade”: The Renewal of Catechesis . But before this a theologian had been a scholarly generalist with wisdom and skill to guide Christians on questions on belief, morality, devotion (what we now call spirituality), and forming holy habits to please God (what we once called sanctification, and now refer to as spiritual formation). It is with reference to this that, with a glance back at the adult catechumenate of the early Christian centuries, www.crossway.org/articles/j-i-packers-last-crusade-the-renewal-of-catechesis/
@@liudvikas6534 Luther's interpretations of the Bible are correct, you say? Who told you that? How do you know? Why Luther? Why not Calvin or Wesley or Smith or...?? You follow a man in matters eternity? Read the early Church: if Luther was correct, all the saints and all the fathers were wrong... why do you follow Luther of all men?? WHY LUTHER?!?
@@pierreschiffer3180 Well at first the church fathers weren't against lutheran doctrine like sola fide or other you can find their writings about that. Luther's doctrine is the catholic doctrine because it's the most similar to the one in the first ages and because Luther's faith says that we need to keep church traditions which doesn't go against scripture
I was recently asked by an evangelical reformed christian what my church's view on baptism were. I'm a Missouri Synod Lutheran, so I started to explain that when an infant is baptized they receive the Holy Spirit and become apart of God's family. Although I elaborated that a person's salvation isn't the result of anything that a person has said or done and is solely based on God's doing, she acted as if I wasn't a real christian when I had finished explaining my church's views, which confused me a little. Did she think that because I didn't say a prayer asking Jesus into my heart, which is nowhere in Scripture btw, or does it have to do with something else? I wonder if that experience was just a fluke, or if most evangelicals see us as an unsaved church.
Sadly, too many evangelicals question whether Lutherans are Christians, based on the Lutheran position on Baprism. I know first hand, having been in the Evangelical culture most of life, but Lutheran now. The clincher for me, however, was in Lutheran churches grace MEANS grace, not to be followed by a long list of rules. Too many Evangelical churches add a long list of rules after originally preaching justification by faith only to be followed by legalism after getting someone in the fold. It reminds me of bait and switch.
I'm a teenager now and I attended Lutheran churches till I was 12 but I stopped going for no certain reason. Ive been questioning my religion but I haven't expressed to many that I have been. I have been thinking of renouncing my religion but am trying to find my faith again. And advise on how I can regain my lost Faith?
Not too hard. Attend a WELS or Missouri Synod church. Make an appointment to see the pastor in his study and have a friendly chat about the things of God. Most of these pastors are friendly and open and don't mind a lot of questions.
I'm a former Lutheran who became orthodox while in college at Concordia - i still think confessional Lutheranism is best version of Protestantism out there and has a lot to offer and it breaks my heart that it isn't the most dominate form of Protestantism out there. there is so much nonsense out there in the protestant world and confessional Lutheranism seems to have the best handle on the protestant faith. i think one of the thing that hurts Lutheranism is the divisions in Lutheranism, many Lutherans don't know really the difference between Lutheranism and other protestant groups, and the non confessional Lutheran groups out there confusing the beauty of Lutheranism with what ever it is they call Lutheranism.
One of my philosophy professors at Biola ,many years ago, although Reformed, preferred the Lutheran church mainly because the sermons were shorter and more to the point
You usually can say more if you keep it short. A couple times I read the Sermon on the Mount slowly as if I was speaking to a crowd as Jesus was. I was done in 10 minutes, maybe less. Typical Evangelical sermon is 30-45 minutes. Politician should also take note that one doesn't have to speak forever. Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address was about 2 minutes long, unlike the forgettable long winded guy who spoke for two hours before Lincoln(I think it was before, not sure).
My husband and I were recently confirmed into the Lutheran Church (LCMS), yay! :) Our pastor said, "we are simply evangelical catholics". I really liked that explanation, coming from a non-denominational background where doctrine is relative for the most part.
Well, my friend: doctrine might indeed be relative within most "non-denominational" churches, but doctrine is man-made within the Lutheran denominations. I hate to bring it to you, but Luther was a man...:) You are not "Evangelical Catholics". You are outside the Church: fully objectively. Read the early Church on the meaning of that: read Augustine, Ambrose, Athanasius, Gregory, etc...
Pierre Schiffer - Luther was indeed a man and that is your argument for discrediting Lutheran Doctrine. The you say to go read Augustine, Ambrose, Gregory etc. It is strange that you say that because what they say or write is by your claim “outside the church” because they also are human! With all do respect your argument is nullified by your own words! By your argument all of Scripture would be “out the church” because every word of Scripture was written by man. Yes inspired by God, but written by man. I encourage you actually study and read some Luther and some church History of the corruption of the Church of Rome. Luther was not about himself at all. His writings clearly point to Jesus as the only way of salvation and the truth that flows down through all doctrine from there. God worked through Luther to bring Jesus back to the Church. Lord, grant that this particular individual of whom I am addressing can put to the side their own reason and ideas and presuppositions and hold fast to the truth of Your Word and use Scripture alone as their only source and norm of truth. In other words do as Luther did and use Scripture to interprets Scripture. Thank you Father for people like Luther and many other who stand on the Truth as it is found in Your Word to share the Gospel of our Savior Jesus to this fallen world! In Jesus name, Amen!
@@brandonluft8950 Thank you, my friend, for your response. With all do respect: your response is absolute nonsense. Almost from beginning to end. Where to even begin? Well, there goes :) Indeed the men I name are also human: that you got right :) My friend: read the Bible and see how the New Testament makes a fundamental difference between two lots of men. First we have the apostles and those they lay hands upon, like Timotheus, Linus, presbyters, etc. They are installed to hand over the faith from generation to generation and to shepherd the flock. Besides them we see others being mentioned: men who do not accept the authority of the first lot I mentioned, but instead design their own gospel; like Alexander and several others. It is the teachers of the Gospel vs the false teachers of their own gospel; the shepherds of Israel vs the false shepherds. Now to what lot do Athanasius and Augustine belong, you think? Have they been installed as teachers of the Church by the laying on of hands? And to what lot do Donatus and Luther belong to, you say? Did they separate and became their own authority; did they teach their own ideas and interpretations? Did they come up with their own gospel? Indeed Scripture was written by men, like you write: by those that have been installed as teachers of the Gospel; not by those who are rejecting all of that and come up with their own version of the truth. At all times: two lots of men...! My friend, I am not here to discredit Lutheran theology, like you write. I am here to warn against any individual who teaches his own opinions and understanding of Scripture as the Gospel. What is your position? It seems anything but Catholic, or? :) You write that we should go by Scripture alone... are you serious? Who told you that? Luther? :) Will you then accept as witness to the Gospel anyone who goes by Sola Scriptura?? Or will you only accept those who end up with similar interpretations as Luther did?? Is that truth, my friend? You write: "Luther was not about himself at all. His writings clearly point to Jesus as the only way of salvation and the truth that flows down through all doctrine from there." Brandon, what kind of argument is this, my good friend? How many separated teachers go by Jesus as the Truth, but yet all teach a different version of the Gospel? Is that truth, my friend? Or is that error? When two people teach another Gospel, at least one of them must teach a false gospel, my friend. Finally your last section: your holy prayer! :) My friend, what are you doing? Is this how how you make your point? Well, your points are so far off, Brandon. Best is to react to the contents with arguments; not to the person with suggestive - but funny! - prayers :) My own reason, you write? Well, I simply go by the teachings of the Church: I am her faithful child. How is that my own reason? :) Isn't Luther the one who went by his own reason?? Or do you mean to say that from all separated teachers Luther is the one that did not go by his own reason?? They all teach something different, so at least most of them must go by their own reason, right? That is at least what common reasoning tells me :) My friend, a fact: Luther taught on many issues fully different as compared to the early Church. He brought a new gospel; one that has never existed before the 1500s. You are following a MAN, my friend: a MAN! Just like so many other people follow a MAN; just another MAN than the one you are following! :) Open your eyes, Brandon, my friend! To write "Scripture alone as their [our] only source and norm of truth"... that is absolutely ridiculous, my friends: that is simply nonsense! But you go even further than that: you go by Luther's personal understanding of Scripture! That is nonsense squared! :) My friend: I cannot make it better than this: what you do has nothing to do with truth! The very opposite! Brandon, the way you wrote your response is not good. We can well disagree, but you write like you cannot be wrong... just how Luther - and Calvin and Wesley and... - wrote; yet they all wrote something different :) Let me ask you this then: is it possible that you and Luther are WRONG? Fundamentally WRONG? That what you and Luther preach is FALSE? Can you please answer me this? And my second question to you: in case you are indeed WRONG and if what you write is indeed FALSE, will you admit this and will you convert in every way necessary? Even if it means to go where you do not want to go - at all! Will you follow Jesus wherever He wants you to go? Or will you follow yourself no matter what...? Please answer these two questions I put to you, dear Brandon. What you write is so far off, but what I hope is that you at least do not consider yourself infallible - like so many do, while they all teach another variant on the Gospel - and are able to admit that you can be WRONG and what you teach can be FALSE. Can you? :) Wishing you an excellent week, my good friend! I appreciate a lot your response, but please aim for the content, not for the person! :) Do not shoot the messenger; especially not the messenger of truth! ;)
Pierre Schiffer - Boy you sound like a broken record with all of your blasts on mine and other people’s comments. The doctrine of the Church is found in no other place than Scripture. The Church of Rome clearly lost (and is still lost) pure doctrine and Luther only reintroduced the pure Gospel back to the Church. The laying on of hands as you say, I think you are referring to Peter being the first Pontiff of the Church of Rome. That is totally taken out of context by Rome. In context of the Greek and the usage of the Greek Petras it is clear that Jesus was referring to Peter’s confessing and not to the man Peter. And the laying on of hands did not stop false teachings from coming into the Church if Rome. Jesus himself says that He is the only way to salvation and to the Father. Jesus himself in the Gospel of John many time says “ego eimie” referring to Himself as the “I am”!!! He says nothing about salvation coming through the office of the Papacy and the Roman magisterium. Which we also find in John’s writings in his epistles and revelations that he beast is Rome and the office of Papacy is clearly Antichrist. The pure Gospel of The was totally lost in the Church of Rome when they venerated Peter as the Vicar of Christ. Shame on you also for poking fun at my prayer for you! I truly mean my prayer and will still be praying it for you. Jesus said “I am the way” not the papacy ant Roman magisterium is the way. The Church of Rome is blasphemous with this claim. I am thankful for Luther and the other Reformers would stood firm on Christ Crucified and risked their lives for the sake of the Gospel. No, I do not believe that the Lutheran Confessions as found in the Book of Concord can be wrong. I do not subscribe to them as Holy Scripture but I do believe that they are a true exposition of the doctrine that is taught in Holy Scripture. I do not subscribe to Luther’s writings. I subscribe to truth of Jesus as the only way of salvation through His life, death and resurrection!
@@brandonluft8950 Thank you, my friend, for your response. Again you respond not good, however. What you write is not correct: it is nonsense - no joke this time :) Thank you for sharing your personal opinions and interpretations regarding several Scriptural topics with us, however. Before I again put much time into writing down all, I would like you to first answer the two questions I put to you, however. For I do not wish to write to a wall - an infallible one :) I did not ask you anything regarding the Book of Concord: I asked about you: let me copy-paste: "... is it possible that you and Luther are WRONG? Fundamentally WRONG? That what you and Luther preach is FALSE? Can you please answer me this? And my second question to you: in case you are indeed WRONG and if what you write is indeed FALSE, will you admit this and will you convert in every way necessary? Even if it means to go where you do not want to go - at all! Will you follow Jesus wherever He wants you to go? Or will you follow yourself no matter what...?" Please provide a short and clear response and we go from there. Oh, and again: please aim for the content, not the person :) Wishing you a very good evening, my friend.
Good old SS Schmucker and his "Unaltered Augsburg Confession."* *with several alterations which he specified in his anonymous letter to the general synod.
In past conversations I think that a lot of people don't know about Lutheranism because at least the Lutheran churches that I have grown up in will firmly state that only God draws people. I honestly think this is some inner Church confusion. I appreciate the anti-ecumenical approach that the wels lutherans hold to, because most people are not aware of the melding back into the Catholic Church that so many denominations are incrementally doing. There's actually an anti-reformation going on. Most of your evangelicals (NOT to be confused with an Evangelical Lutheran Church) and your false churches like the NAR and Word of Faith churches are physically meeting with the Pope. Even Francis Chan who was mentioned in one of these other comments is embracing the Catholic Church. There is a push toward a one world religion.
I left the Lutheran church and went to several different Evangelical churches. In these churches the lights went very low and the music went deafeningly loud. The Pastors were constantly begging for money to buy a bigger church. The sermons were geared towards new believers and young children. I went back to the Lutheran church and I am staying put.
Yes! What's the matter with CPH? First of all they don't seem to want to sell books to other countries. They also make it difficult to put out their books in different languages. It's almost like they don't want people outside the lcms to read their books. Sad!
An old video. But I wish to say, as an Anglican, you guys are my favourites. To the point that, if the church weren't nearly inaccessible to me physically. I may be a Lutheran.
the lack of presence of the Lutheran Church within the American ecclesiastical scene is in many ways a blessing. If you check the Human Rights Campaign website "Religion and Faith" section, they don't even mention any confessional Lutheran bodies even though they mention micro denominations like the PCA, Nazarene, and Quakers(?!). The LCMS in particular is not even on the radar of the major NGOs even though it is the 6th or 7th largest church body in the country.
3:35 you say that a lot, however in europe i don’t see that. i am reformed and i do not see how lutherans are the ones losing their identity considering that the Leuenberg Agreement states the lutheran position on both the Lord’s supper as well as predestination.
Lutherans are preeminent in the Upper Midwest--Wisconsin across the Dakotas at least. But the Missouri Synod seems to practice exclusivity and so isolates itself as you said. For example, if I as a Moravian attend a Lutheran service in places without Moravians, the Lutherans refuse Eucharist even though Jan Hus preceded Luther and is a kind of proto-Lutheran with theology that's entirely compatible.
I've been looking into Lutheranism lately and it's not unrecognizable but it like listening to someone using 200 year old words. It sounds different but many of the beliefs are the same as other Christians believe.
Part of the problem is that Roman Catholics have trashed Lutheran so badly that it’s damaged the church. I have a group, we’ve studied for 6 yrs before joining a church. I chose Lutheran they chose R Catholic. They keep saying things like he wanted yo take the book of James out, he said we should interpret the scripture on our own and they send me stuff. I try to tell them look what they teach in the concord but you know they just trash him. Do a video giving the good and bad of Luther but how we came to the doctrine he teaches, that would be helpful. He obviously said some things so I don’t know how to get them passed that.
Why is it do u think that when Lutheranism comes in contact with reformed theology that’s the influence only goes one way? One thing that I lament about is that Lutheran preaching is so short and shallow compared to reformed expository preaching.
Here in Brazil lutheranism is almost unknown among people - and, also, among evangelical christians. We have two great Lutheran denominations (and some minor too), but in general they are practically unknown. Unfortunately, Pentecostalism and neo-Pentecostalism dominated the evangelical scene since the 1990s, mimicking the worst of these movements in the United States. Reformed theology is the only one that offers a counterpoint to these movements in the public religious debate. Reformed theology has grown over the last few decades, especially after the popularization of the internet, but Lutheran theology has remained confined within Lutheran circles.
