If you look carefully, you might spot a disused Central line station, Hell Infernum, long since abandoned because Satan deemed the Central line too hot even for him.
I worked on the “cooling the tube” programme at Oxford Circus. It was an interesting challenge. The system is essentially air handling units suspended above the track on each platform. They are connected to two large chillers located on the roof of a TfL owned building above the station (visible in the shot of Oxford Circus station at the end of the vid). It is very difficult to work efficiently in the small window of work you have in the middle of the night. So the whole process takes a very long time and costs an extremely large amount of money. You also have the added problem of dealing both with the LUL and the TfL who are difficult at the best of times.
Question as a layman: Would platform screens help with this? If a barrier existed , would it push up the air? What if the platforms had these platform doors, AND a a door blocking the train from leaving the station, that also acts as a way to deflect the air UP into a chute somewhere? Maybe even some suction fans above? If the next train pushes your hot air somewhere else and it’s contained to each station it could work, right? So rather than the piston effect affecting the whole line, you deal with the smaller sub problem and deal with it in 30+ repetitions. There may be some health and safety hazards associated with blocking the train’s path with something but I think it could be a good idea.
@@KiLLJoYRU-vid the trouble is that the train (and it’s passengers) generate heat throughout the network i.e. not just at the platforms. And even platform screens, such as the ones on the Jubilee Line, would not prevent the heat from eventually spreading in to the platform space. In an ideal world you would have regular supply and extract shafts that would remove the hot air and replace with cool air. It would be even better if the hot air could be used for something useful such as heating the buildings above the line.
Sadly those chillers appear to have been off for the past few years, particularly on the hottest days. Green Park also has them. They are great when they’re running
@@bjoernaltmann It is a shame if they have been turned off. There was a problem with vibrations from the chilled water pipework transmitting in to the building that housed the chillers. Perhaps that’s why they are off.
Many years ago, a fried of mine described his experience on the New York subway: you are always afraid the carriages will fall apart before reaching the next station - but they do have air conditioning.
The carriages that he described were subway trains that had ceiling fan and were rebuilt with air conditioning. The oldest trains that were rebuilt were made in 1964, the R32s
@@adonaiyah2196 Much of New York is built on solid rock - granite. So the subway lines are just below the surface making it easy to dissipate the hot air out to the atmosphere - you've seen the gratings on the streets?. (It's also the reason you can build massive tall buildings without massive deep foundations.) London is built in a river valley on clay. So the deep lines (Victoria, Central, Piccadilly etc.) are much deeper than New York and surrounded by insulating clay as Jago said. This makes it much harder to get rid of the hot air. The problem could have been addressed if AC had been considered when the lines were originally constructed but 100-120 years ago AC was in its infancy. Plus the heat problem on the Underground only really exists when we get a summer heatwave and we all know they don't last long...
The carriages are really not that bad. It’s just that you’re guaranteed to meet at least one er, very eccentric person on every train. Good old NYC - it’s never boring.
Can someone explain this comment to me? Edit: On second thoughts I think I understand: If Britain were in the EU, their livestock laws would have meant a cooler tube. Interesting idea.
I remember being in a carriage that stopped for about a 10 mins between Chancery Lane and Bank back in the mid 90s. It was mid-August, the train was packed. It was one of the worst experiences in my life...
I lived through the hot Toronto summer when the Bloor line's trains' air conditioning failed, but I have never been as uncomfortable as I have been on the Central Line.
Had the same experience. I am not claustrophobic, but when you are in a small area and feel the heat creeping up on you, it is not a pleasant feeling. Someone kept pressing the emergency call button to the driver, probably a panic attack, and he keep coming back that there is nothing he can do until we get to the station.
@@johnfitzgerald7618 In the Toronto case, the end cars of the train were cooled...because the drivers (one alternately acting as guard at the other end of the train) refused to drive the trains otherwise. Union edict, and also required under Ontario health and safety regs, rightly so. Also the Toronto cars are a larger loading gauge than most BR trains! Even packed in like sardines, the tin is a hell of a lot bigger, and taller. There's lots of space overhead. I live in Toronto, btw. I'm a Dual.
@@stephensaines7100 Thanks for the information, Stephen. Makes you wonder about the British health and safety laws. As for the height of the trains, I'm 6' 2" and in the old days spent most of my time on the Underground stooped over. Many of the cars are still difficult for people over 6'. And that's no great height. Of course I banged my head a lot of times getting out of the old PCC streetcars.
01:05 The heat was caused by the underground railways disturbing the devil? How can that be? A lot of the lines were Charles Yerkes' idea in the first place, so I doubt he'd find them disturbing. Or am I confusing different characters in this series? (And the mid 2020s is looking like the next chance most of us outside the UK will get to visit London, if one is being optimistic.)
✝️ - An overly christen philosphor had that depiction/reference to the spiritual realm = that is hell: the devil - Satan 👹, his demons/demonic minions, the fire & brinestone with the spirituality dead/goats in it, is thought to be, depicted/referenced being in the middle of the earth - when I, a saved Pentecostal Christian refer to hell, I point to the floor, when at church, the pastor is preaching at the lectern, when referring to hell he lowers his hand and points to the floor. Same thing with heaven; where God the father, Jesus Christ, the angels and the saved Christians/sheep are, is depicted/referenced to being above us = when referring to heaven I point to the sky/ceiling, same thing with the pastor at church. Yes, I know you would screech in the replies/comments to this comment, about the rock, tectonic plates, magma, outer & inner cores, in the centre of the earth, and the sky - above the blue colour, satellites, space junk, outer space and the moon… I know about that. what God has also said in the Bible that the first/current heaven is also referred to as the unseen state = as it is spiritual we can’t physically see it, and that we are in the physical realm that unfortunately is sin cursed. God also said that St John was given a vision by an angel of a description of a new heaven and earth, that the current one isn’t interesting - when Jesus was crucified on the cross, he referred to the current heaven as “paradise” to the the thief next to him, but the new one is described to us so we can look forward to it 🥰
The irony is that rather than hell heating up the tube, the effect is actually the other way. After a hundred years the earth around the Central Line tunnels is now 10-15 degrees hotter than it was when the tunnels were built, something that's actually caused some structural problems as the London Clay dries out and contracts. Nothing serious and easily fixed with a quick squirt of concrete in the right place, but an interesting extra wrinkle in the struggle to keep the tube cool.
@@simontist but air conditioning the trains is only going to make the tunnels and platforms hotter. The heat needs to be removed from the system entirely.
In the summer during hot weather, I used to go into the few smoking carriages, as in the heat I would rather smell cigarette smoke than various odours which permeated the non smoking carriages. I fainted once and went two stops before it was noticed. That's because we were so packed in like sardines, the other tube travellers were literally keeping me standing! Clearly, not much has changed. Thank you for yet another interesting video on your channel 👍
Wow! I've never passed out, but I did have a horrendous nosebleed on the Bakerloo line going to work. It's the worst nosebleed I've ever had in my life. I tried to stop it discreetly but blood was gushing everywhere and getting onto my bag and clothes. The lady sitting next to me even got up and moved to another seat! Thankfully other passengers were much kinder, offering me tissues and advice. To avoid further embarrassment (and potential haemorrhage), I got out at Marylebone and sought help from a TFL staff member. They were horrified at the sight of me, but so helpful and kind!
Ironically, the Bank platforms of the DLR (deepest of all Bank platforms) must be the COOLEST underground platforms, as they have the perfect ventilation arrangement of twin tunnel bores directly up to ground level. Always cool on the hottest days.
A very cool video… Won’t an air conditioner train just be pumping warm air into the tunnels though and unlike the sub service lines doesn’t have the space / ventilation to dissipate the hot air?
The implementation of regenerative braking means that the heat output of the new trains with air conditioning will actually be smaller than the current trains without AC. They are also planning on introducing some station and tunnel cooling schemes to lower platform temperatures. See more in this feasibility report, page 26: content.tfl.gov.uk/ntfl-feasibility-report.pdf
@@Rebasepoiss From your reference: [This would enable less heat to be discharged into the tunnels and Underground stations, which would potentially reduce the need for infrastructure cooling and/or reduce temperatures] The heat has to go somewhere, and this is just pumping it into the tunnels, not converting it into other forms of energy that can be used productively.
The trouble with air-conditioned carriages is that the heat is just pumped into the air in the tunnels. This makes the stations hotter and potentially makes the tunnels more dangerous if they are needed to escape the trains. The only real solution is to pump the heat out of the tunnels.
@@danlastname9002 They will in fact be air conditioned, see links elsewhere in the comments. Air cooling was a rather sloppy term used in the TfL video and contradicted by their own articles. But for air cooling, the cool air has to come from somewhere - and there isn't any in the tunnels ...
Never use a carriahge with a driver's cab in it - there is sod all ventilation. Thanks to Jago for explaining why those vents at St Pauls offer a little relief. I wondered why the air was a bit cooler.
As an Australian who has spent many a year living in the UK (London and Newcastle) I can promise you that an Australian summer is infinitely preferable to a British summer. The way Britain seems to retain heat and is unable to disperse it results in hell on earth. That said, an Australian winter will put hair on your chest. You've not experienced freezing cold misery until you've spent a winter in Melbourne. The British design traditions we inherited were convinced Australia is always hot when it quite simply isn't.
The idea Melbourne is cold is a joke all the norther cities of Australia throws at Melbourne, because of how much Melbournians like to proclaim they're the real city of Australia. It's not _biting_ cold like the British winter, it just goes as low as 5C during the winters.
Hipsters probably associate St Paul's with oppression some how, they'd only go there to protest. The hipsters architecture of choice is a shack serving all things soy.
No idea but i imagine most of the speed is scrubbed off with big resistors wired to the motors acting as generators. More than willing to be proved wrong !
@@mrb.5610 it puts the energy back into the rails as electricity - hence regenerative, it re-generates. if it was using resistors it would just be creating a similar amount of heat electrically instead of via friction.
@@andyharding1514 1992 stocks use rheostatic, friction AND regenerative braking - so yes, the 1992 stocks do generate heat through resistor banks. On the Waterloo and City fleet, the regenerative braking's actually been disabled.
@@danlastname9002 I think you'd best check your reference on that. DC series motors can't regeneratively brake, at least not in the way you posit. The sub-station feeding the motors can, with choppers inserted, but best read this: Tunnel vision: the challenge of cooling the London Underground It carries five million passengers a day and is integral to the smooth running of the capital - but could the Tube also allow developers to tap a huge secondary heat source? Andy Pearson investigates Posted in May 2018 www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
The algorithm directed me to this video, and for once I'm quite happy about it. I didn't realise that I wanted to learn about the London Underground cooling systems, but clearly the all-knowing algorithm knows better I do. Liked and subscribed!
Central line is nuts! I remember commuting on it in 2003 and I honestly thought I would melt. The piston effect and big fans is good up to about 32 to 35 degrees, after this you are just getting a heat blast!
Great video Jago. The new trains will be Air Cooled not Air Coditioned as Air Con on the trains would make the tunnels even warmer as there is nowhere for the aircon waste heat to go.
@@JasperJanssen basically they have an air circulation system in the train which will move air around but its not air conditioned. If you watch the new tube for london video on youtube it shows what it is.
@@stevewalsh1987 Well frankly that sounds like smoke and mirrors. Underground trains have been air cooled for years through opening side windows and carriage end windows - which will disappear in the new trains. I suspect the air cooling referred to in the video is really air conditioning. Which is fine until it breaks down, or you have a total power failure. Then it really would be hell underground, possibly fatal. Ever been in a BR Class 158 with aircon broken on a hot day?
It’s funny because everyone dances to that song and thinks it’s happy but it’s actually a pretty serious song about being on relationship that you’re not actually happy. The lyric “You don’t hear me, you just wanna dance” shows that! Have a great day guys!
I love how this came up in my recommended. I was just in London and was shocked at how hot it was while using the tube system. I couldn't help compare it with Seoul's subway system (I just came back from living in Korea after 4 years) and kept saying 'damn the London tube needs an update' ha!
With air conditioning the heat has to go somewhere, so cooler trains means hotter platforms. Perhaps they could market the Central Line as a travelling sauna?
And I was also on the Central line yesterday and my grandad used to work on the Central line until 2001 when he retired he works on the Central line between 1967 and 2001
I remember being grateful for the bit of air coming though that slidey window thing up at the front of the old tube cars when I rode them a couple years ago. I definitely felt quite claustrophobic and short of breath on some of those old trains. Luckily as a tourist I was always travelling off peak so the trains were never crammed full. I can't imagine how bad that would be at peak times.
Remember boarding a NYC subway in Mid Manhattan on a 40+ degree summer day. It was absolute hell. Toronto on a 45+ day and the trains were an inferno. Windows fogged over and many passengers refused to board. Santiago's line one stations only offered fans spraying water. Didn't help much.
Aaaah….reminds me of many a bleary eyed early morning or late night rattling to work or home on the Central Line. Shepherds Bush was a horrible grimy station!
@@BenG1874 I applaud you for your failure to understand that my comment was intended in jest. My reasons for moving are multidimensional, and trust me, the central line is faaaar down that list.
Believe me, Caerphilly to Newport might be cooler, but is still just as crammed as the LU - TfL rail here deliver a poor service in peak times, tends to be 2 carriages on an old Class 150
Problem with air-conditioned tube trains is that it cooks those on the platform instead. Regenerative braking definitely good though moving from fluorescent to LED probably overstated
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they took the cooling down a notch in whatever deep tube sections with poorer ventilation; every passenger, both those coming from the suburbs and those taking the trains in central stations, will benefit, as trains will enter those sections with cooler air on the inside to begin with even if the system switches to regular ventilation only.
@@stephensaines7100 A bit more precisely, air conditioning on an underground train can be described as merely stirring the heat. Pump heat out of the cars into the tunnels and stations, where the doors open to let it all in again. Toronto has had air conditioning in cars forever but somehow the trips aren't sweat free. :-( Ultimately ventilation is the only answer for getting rid of heat. BTW, one reason for pumping in cool air is to push hot out out.
@@stephensaines7100 No, regenerative braking does not transform heat into electricity, it transforms motion into electricity, by using the eletric motors as generators it transforms the motion of the train into electricity and gives it back thru 3rd rail to the electrical grid.
air cond generates a lot of heat. However, other countries have managed to air condition their deep subway lines. I'm not sure why they can and we can't because the lines are at about the same depth.
I think Tom Scott explained in one of their videos this problem with heat and how since some years ago it is used to generate electricity (especially in winter, when the temprature difference between the surface and the underground is greater and taking advantage of how it manage to storage summer heat)
It’s ‘reassuring’ to know I wasn’t just imagining the Bakerloo being up there as one of the warmest lines! Here’s hoping the new deep-level stock become TfL’s coolest trains…
@asioe kiou The underground is saturated with horrible air pollution from the freaking brake pads, to the point where you're safer breathing the damn car exhaust on the surface.
I'm no fan of the central line and that's the cold truth. In the days of 'shaft' and the 'three degrees', I was radiant about the central line, but these days I'm on the Pick-a-chilly line to Thermos Grove.
I used to commute between Liverpool Street and Great Portland Street and it was heaven when the new trains were introduced! I remember the old Circle line trains as being the worst on that section, as they were freezing cold in winter and boiling hot in summer; the new trains were cool in summer and warm in winter. Hoorah! I would avoid the Central Line like the plague in the summer. Hot, crowded, and noisy! Ugh.
Oh, the days of the old Tait trains, fondly dubbed the Red Rattlers, and blue Harris trains of yore. The former had no air-conditioning unless you count the manner in which the doors would roll open as the train moved off. Or the way the windows were jammed open letting the rain in during winter. Some of the Harris trains had air-con but you generally sweltered on a 38 degree C summer's day in Melbourne. The Hitachis weren't much better. The underground loop isn't bad although it's sometimes warmer than it should be. But the air-con on the Siemens trains have a distressing tendency to struggle or stop working when the temperature hits 40.
If memory serves, the doors between the carriages on the red rattlers opened to the outside and either they or their windows could be opened for some ram air cooling when the train got up to speed.
As someone that used to commute from Ealing Broadway to Gants Hill I can confirm that even in winter the trains can be hot, in summer they are often unbearable.
No reference to the devil himself, I thought Yerkes would have a "hand" in this hot topic. Any chance to make a video on Green Park? Thank you again for your most entertaining content!
Indeed I was a bit disappointed and equally surprised that this wasn't somehow Yerkes' fault. After all, the name of this fine and upstanding member of society has been sullied and maligned often enough on this channel.
@@JagoHazzard Thank you! Please try to include some bits on the very eccentric Ritz Hotel building next to it, unless that deserves a video on its own :)
*38% of heat is via braking.* Re-gen braking and LED lights must make a significant impact in keeping the stations cool and in running costs. As well as reducing the carbon footprint. LED lighting is cheap to instal in most cases, as it is just replacing a lamp. The Mersey Rail tunnel under the River Mersey, built in 1886, has a parallel ventilation tunnel of about 2 metres diameter - it also has a drainage tunnel under as well. Boring a 1.5 to 2 metres wide vent tunnel parallel to the Central Line tunnel, that runs off to more convenient surface vent shafts, may be a more permanent solution. The vent tunnel may only be in small sections, not the whole run of the tunnel. Keeping the stations cooler naturally, would reduce the need for expensive to run mechanical cooling like air-con units in the stations and on the trains - or at least make them cheaper to run. As an aside, the water pumped out of the Mersey Rail tunnel's drainage tunnel was used to heat and cool adjacent buildings, using heat pumps - *50 years ago.*
Very interesting point. Cold air naturally sinks and warm air rises, so suitable double vent lines leading to the surface somewhere should get hot air out of the tunnels - unless it's equally hot up top. The vents might emerge some way from the tracks, wherever there is space. Maybe in one of the central London gardens mentioned by Jago recently.
@@iankemp1131 There is short sightedness for sure. Crossrail runs parallel to the Central Line for a fair length. The ventilation construction could have been joint between the two lines and clearly could have been constructed simultaneously
Because they introduced regen, they took the opportunity to INCREASE the power to the motors, giving better acceleration. The idea was that consumption evened out over the line. The older trains drew 1.4MW, the current ones 1.9MW.
Excellent post John. This is a case of a "working fluid" to transit the heat much more efficiently than air itself would or could. Discussed here: www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tunnel-vision/
@@DaimlerSleeveValve But do the current ones on the Central Line and Victoria Line actually have regen? If so, it's hard to see how new trains will balance out the extra heat generated by aircon?
Trouble with air conditioning the trains is, air con actually produces *more* heat in total, so any cooling inside the carriages will be countered by a greater amount of heat in the tunnels.
Great vid Jago. I wonder if tube travellers still get the sensation of their ears popping between Stratford and Mile End on the Central Line? That must be some gradient as the tube rushes down towards central London. As a kid I used to dread the ear popping ride. Cheerio for now.
May I ask a general Tube question, please? (I'm going to make myself look silly as I am sure that everyone but me knows the answer to this.): Why does the Tube "do" SO many cables? Particularly noticeable out in the open air..... cables;cables;cables! Now, obviously some are for track circuiting and some for signally, etc. as upon Network Rail but they don't have anywhere near SO MANY CABLES.
Traction power return cables, track circuit data, signalling data to and from the control centres and power for the signalling and points, telephony cables, high-voltage cables for the stations from substations from the National Grid etc etc. The underground tends to have lineside cables very visible as it’s easier to maintain whereas heavy rail’s are in troughs.
My abiding memory of the Central line in hot weather is hopping from Oxford Circus to St. Paul's. It got packed. Holding onto a grip, there was this guy doing the same but he was wearing a t-shirt. His armpit was an inch or so from my nose. The smell was one thing but my nose started to itch. I tried wriggling my nose but failed and then started to sniff. Never been so glad to get off a tube train before.
It's nice standing with windows open between carrages while your screaming along the underground , only respite from the heat , too many passengers aswell all that body heat cant help
I used to stand by the door that connects the carriages, with the window wide open, getting blasted by cool air. But I had to fight for it. There would be people standing there with jackets on and the window closed. Absolute maniacs.
Yeah used that line many times was so hot i had my top off and was still sweating...! Found The Bank and Morden the worst as it's around 1/2 way into the line, as at Finchley it's ok, but feel the carriage warming up as people cram in...
I thought the problem with having air conditioning on trains on the deep level tubes is that the on board AC is exchanging heat with the already overheated narrow tunnels.
I am rather taken by the fact that the St Paul's ventilator building is shaped very much like a church. It might be fun to tell gullible tourists that, underneath the engineering brick and louvres, there is a tiny chapel, dedicated to 'St John of the Bonham' designed by Wren, and it's single bell, called 'Mortmain' is in the Museum Of London, and can be rung on request. The main part of the chapel was cleared out in 1904, and the shell is now a ventilator.
They have service trains that can deliver gravel and similar materials into the tunnels. Why not deliver ice? Have a storage compartment under things like benches at the stations, fill them up during the night or off peak times. Should provide decent cooling.
Back in 1989, l was on the bakerloo trying to get to paddington. This was part of my daily commute. The old stock train halted just before Regents Park. It was the evening rush hour, mid summer and it was standing room only. Plenty of back packers ready to turn round and take your eye out. We were stuck there for an hour! The heat was intense, people opened all the small windows, no announcement! I was starting to panic but luckily l had a very funny book that took my mind off the situation. The train then moved. Phew, but then it stopped again for 15 minutes. At Regents Park l managed to revive a bit. We were never told what was up. After that l caught the bus from Victoria to Paddington, an express service but then London transport cancelled the route.
Unpleasant memories of working in the City through the great heatwave and drought in 1976. The District Line was just about bearable if you arrived and left early (easy with a flexitime company). The best place to be was by the connecting door of the carriages with the window down.
central line train now replaced cuz 1992 stock heavy refurbishment and now train has new: 1. Seats 2. Aircon. 3. No air pollution or ANY pollution 4. No heat anxiety (recurring)
Really enjoyed your video. I was in london today and travelled on the tube at various times, with my longest trip being on the Piccadilly line, which got very hIt and stuffy indeed. In addition, there was an ad in said tube saying that then tube lines and trains have a change in air once every 3 minutes, but would love to know what airflow duty this is based on, as the rate would be differenT for a train carriage compared to a station because of the difference in sizes. Also, it should be pointed out that air conditioning and ventilation should be regarded as two different things, air conditioning conditions the air around it, and in some cases, like the train, takes its ‘fresh air ‘element from the air being fed to it. Ventilation consists of either fresh supply air, exhaust/extract air or both, the latter being better as it then has better chance of changing the air in said area.
I remember too vividly the inferno of heat that hits you as soon as you enter Bank station in the summer. Talking of Bank station, are able to pinpoint the source of that rather unique "aroma" that is just as inescapable as the heat?
I remember a couple of winters ago, when we had a really cold one. I went on the Bakerloo or Centeral and it was absolute bliss. I was shivering outside, and far overdressed down in the tube. It was great until I had to leave again.
