I'm a PvE player primarily, I'm a console player for reference. I recently tried to do some Cyrodiil so I could attempt to get transmutes, but all I found was Nightblades 1 shotting me with some really annoying combo, or I have lethal arrows shoved up my behind. I used to try and farm Imperial city, and the amount of times my day was simply ruined by a Nightblade 1 shotting me from invis was insane. And I also can't count the amount of times I got bagged, its whatever, but it always happens. I learnt I'm just going to stick to my pledges and daily dungeons lol...
Yea there’s a lot of 1 shot combos that definitely will put a bad taste in your mouth and not make you want to engage with the system much unfortunately. Once you learn how to counter those situations it’s much better, but that kinda stuff can definitely ruin somebody’s first impression of the content
The problem I have is unresponadability. I play a 50k health, heavy armor warden healer, and I can still be one shot by certain builds with no counterplay, 100 to 0. And these aren’t cheese builds. There is always going to be imbalance, but in full gold gear and the right build, nobody should get one shot with no counterplay.
New subscriber here, just wanted to say i really love the positivity you bring to the ESO RU-vid space. Even when you are being critical of the game, you always express yourself in a reasoned, constructive manner. This is exactly the kind of channel I've been seeking. Keep up the great work. I love what you're doing! 🙂👍
@@Cooperharley0204 Have the recent DDOS attacks been running for the last 10 years? There were only two times Cyrodiil ran smoothly: 1) During no-proc Cyrodiil and 2) after the hardware upgrades. This tells me that a large part of the poor performance is due to lack of optimisation and general care from ZOS.
I used to play a game called Silkroad Online when I was young. Asian mmo, lots of grind but it had this interesting system of guild-based pvp. So you could join one of three guilds- thieves, hunters and traders. It was all based on the caravan system. Traders can buy special loot from one city, use a carrying animal, which is very durable but kinda slow, and if they reach another town, they can sell it for some sweet profit. They had some random spawns of npc-thieves every couple of minutes but the core idcea was that traders earn gold by investing it. Thieves can attack those caravans, kill them and steal their good earning their profit and hunters I think they were awarded partially by traders (just a man-man agreement) or something else, but couldn't interact with trade goods themselves. You could earn a lot of gold in those caravans. It was super interesting, grinding as lowbie in a guild, seeing a caravan pass by, calling guildmates on them and seeing those random battles. Just an idea but it stuck with me that there are other ways to pvp beside capture the falg, deathmatch and keep-taking.
Love the idea of smaller instanced battlegrounds with a small keep to attack/defend. Would also like some regular 4v4/5v5/6v6 gameplay. Arenas from Wow would also be interesting, highly competitive 2v2s with pvp specific gear and rewards that can only be attained in BGs or cyrodil
3 things I would like to see in pvp, this is just me personally: a free for all battleground mode, a team vs team mode like you mentioned, and the ability to pick your game mode in battlegrounds.
Frankly, I wish eso would push PVP less. Every time they do a "forced" PVP event where you have to go into PVP zones to do PVE content for, say, event tickets? I actively hate those events, because the core of the PVP community in this game is _exactly_ the type of toxic player that actively hunts players just trying to do PVE content for tickets. Every day there's an endevor? It's horrible. Trying to unlock scrying and some of the fastest options would be in IC...I gave up because every time I almost got there, some gankblade was actively hiding next to one of the quest objectives. The PVP community in this game is irreparably toxic, there's no incentive to play it, and your first exposure as someone who isn't a PVP player in this game to the PVP scene is more often than not someone that a better run game would have already banned for griefing.
I'm in a big friendly guild that runs Cyro or Imp. City every night. That is the key to playing an aspect of the game that ZOS puts on the backburner for the more lucrative PVE. I wish a company would create a dedicated game like Cyrodiil, aka fantasy Planetside, so that all the resources could go just to the open world battle system. If there is a game like this, I'd love to try it out :)
What would attract most people into pvp?? Leaderboards. There has to be a leaderboards where associated rewards are tied to it. For example: The higher your rank is, the better the rewards would be. It could be top 10 players at the end of the season has a chance to purchase a radiant apex mount. Or they could put a meta mythic for PVE at the higher ranks, that way competitive PVE players would grind that mythic to do the utmost DPS in the team. There's plenty of rewards they could implement there.
Time for my morning thought provoking video. Sup bro! I enjoy Cyrodiil when its not super laggy and having to constantly spam a skill for it to fire then lag for no reason. On the toxic part, yea pvp has the toxic chat and most I've seen rubberband so they don't get kicked off the server and lose their spot but I've seen some brutal pve toxicity in zones and dungeons for all kinds of reasons. I wish they'd actually do something with the whole thing. I'm not a fortnite fan but they are on point with changing the map on a regular basis and adding things. No reason zos can't do something at LEAST every couple years to change it up more than "we added a gear set." I'd also play the game even more if they made a pve Cyrodiil instance. You've got 2 pve dungeons right in the middle of imp city which is a pvp zone. Make those pve zones as well. Spend some money on pvp for half a year. It's so outdated.
Yea MMO players are going to experience toxicity regardless of sector within the game. Just implying here that PVP lends itself to competitiveness, which often is accompanied by some toxicity. But some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in the game have been through PvP and some of the worst have been PvE lol.
Another factor is people might want to get into pvp but don’t have people to run with. The game gives you an intro into the catapult mechanics and shows you how to get dailies and then you are on your own. I have loaded into cyrodil a few times to just to try and find something to do and it’s always a terrible experience. I have run to areas where it looks like there might be fighting and there is either no one there or my faction isn’t there and I just get crushed. Also, the map is so confusing. Sometimes you think there should be a wall there but when you run up there’s no wall, and other times you think you can just run towards an objective and there is a wall in your way. I end up spending 20 minutes trying to find the correct route. Asking for groups in zone chat has worked for me once. I had a ton of fun running around with those folks. Every other time has been a frustrating experience.
Another barrier to PVP is that I just don't see the tactics and strategy in PVP players. I will be playing battlegrounds. And the ONLY thing PVP players want to do is kill other players. Despite the fact all but 1 of the BG actually rewards you for kills to win. They don't see the tactics or strategy the battlegrounds is about. They refuse to listen. They cry and moan like ADHD 7 year Olds. They easily quit if they don't get things their way. They aren't team players.
I think the most important aspect of getting more people back into Cyro is fixing it.. yeah I know, simple to say, evidently hard to implement. I'd like to think, when I'm doing Cyro daily ( ie practiced) I'm a slightly better than average player. But really no more than that and somedays, due to arthritis in my hands, worse than others. I know that one of the guilds I belong to gets a lot of new players into PvP, I've invited some to join the guild and watched them grow. A good All around guild can help not just introduce players to PvP, but make it fun for them. What I would like to see? #1 Cyro fixed and running the way I remember it from yrs ago. #2 A battle arena, 2 aspects: A) bring your own team B) PUG, no grouping b4 ( otherwise teams of top rated PvP'ers are trashing new to PvP players, no fun there!! ) Like a tourney, the exact number on the team's ( two teams) could even change day to day. Face off, the team with the most amount of players standing after Xxx amount of time wins, the player with the most kills gets a reward, player with the most assists gets a reward..etc. This is something that one of my Guilds does.. Our own version of PvP Nekked Nord Arena... * dual ( cause game mechanics) * Strip to skivvies ( no costumes or outfits..) * you get 1 iron Nord helmet, 1 base weapon ( randomly drawn), your jewelry and CP , and 1 bar. ( no other armor) * dual to death and til the last player, in tiered fighting, has won. Honestly though, any GOOD new PvP content would be welcome. A good reward system would be awesome!! Character restricted mounts, costumes, skins, or anything. If Zos really wanted to draw in some of the PvE crowd... GOOD PvP furnishings and one step further.. a PvP achievement house. Faction lock the houses architecture and furnishings, each faction different. But also have a trophy room that would show each Alliance achievement. You make Imp in all three Alliances, maybe paintings of the character that did it wearing a crown, sitting on THE throne. Only if you got imp in Icereach, icey background, Blackreach.. Blackreach background.. etc. Also with IC and BG achievements. I think I've written a book... lol, so I'll stop!
The only mmo in which I have ever enjoyed pvp was Warhammer Online. I don't recall what the specific pvp modes were called, but they were short, bite-sized battles with relatively small maps and some fun mechanics. My favorite one had a mechanic that, when you heard a loud horn blow, everyone had to stop in mid-fight and run for cover or be obliterated in a nuclear-like explosion. It was fun to watch everyone scatter! Then there were maps with lava pools, and you had to take care to position yourself in such a way that you couldn't be punted into a pool of lava. Good times, lol. I've never enjoyed pvp in any other game. Maybe the upcoming ESO pvp update will feature something I will find fun; ya never know! 😁
I am primary PvPer and been playing ESO since release on console and eventually switched to PC. Like many, I've quit (multiple times) over the years, but have really struggled to come back to the game the last couple of years. And you've said it: nothing has changed. Its been the same thing since the beginning - BGs are the newest PvP content. Many of my friends, even entire guilds I was apart of or lead, have quit the game, moving on to other games because of this. They want endgame PVP content and, if ESO doesn't provide, they'll get it somewhere else. What makes the matter worse, and this is just speculation, is that when ZOS checks the data, they see that the majority of their player base doesn't PvP, so they keep adding content to what they do play, and that cycle repeats. When the game first came out, I had to wait a very long time to queue for Cyrodill. When Imperial City came out, there was zero PVE farming taking place down there and instead was filled with groups, guilds, gankers, etc. It was absolute mayhem. But to your second point, there is no incentive to go there as PvPer anymore and is mostly empty outside of events. Lastly, I don't think any PvP content could convince many to come back and fully dive into it again. And that is fine. This game has adapted and evolved in a direction, as do the players. I still highly recommend ESO to other friends for the endless hours of content ESO provides. I just warn them, don't get excited for the PvP as it has become an afterthought.
My main issue with pvp is the lack of collision or weight behind the moves. It feels so disconnected sometimes. Few skills, even some of my favorites, are as satisfying as when you Blade of Woe some NPC. For Honor and fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken, and Mortal Kombat nail that feeling in a way that ESO probably will not able to unless they make some serious changes. If Cyrodiil rewarded xp just for being there in addition to killing players I would spend more time there defending keeps and scouting.
its more like Player vs Player vs Performance i think the only people really doing it are veterans of it and friends of said veterans trying it but its performance and balance issues are more famous than the pvp itself which is unfortunate because it is one of the best
The problem is simple. Its performance. A lot of people still pvp but its nothing compared to what it used to be. Back when you'd have 2 campaigns full with an extremely long que, and a higher cap, and the no cp camp full and the under lv 50 camp full. No cp was destroyed by their stupid set limitation, that had no place in cyrodiil and should be implemented in a competitive environment like bgs. But the main issue that chases people away is terrible performance. Yes there are other issues. Lack of incentive to improve is a big one. But I think a lot of people are turned off by unplayable lag
i am working on a build for pve, guess what, it requires a level 7 support skill. i have been doing BG for days, and still am only level 5 in alliance skill. this is what i hate, the grind is so slow, especially for someone who is not going to pvp unless he needs those skills, eventually i want to get this character skill to 10.. so i can unlock the spend crowns to give a character the entire skill line so i never have to bg or pvp again. I go into Cyrodiil and i have never seen a group i can join and dont even know what i am doing so i get my butt clocked everytime i see an enemy period. it makes for no fun.
I've made it my goal to avoid befriending anyone who loves PvP in any game. If they're overly competitive then they're just a toxic person overall and even If they're not toxic it's just PvP all day everyday. Valorant, Overwatch, Apex, etc. for 12 hours per day like they have no other interests or hobbies.
@@Cooperharley0204 before the new owners they nerfed every build I had, from changing blood mist, syrabanes ward etc ... Constantly nerfing people after they spent all the gold and transmutes can't be good for keeping players active either. I have a little more faith with the new owners the last ones threatened to turn everyone into ghost lights
I loved bg's in wow wrath, theres a lot of people, most are focused on killing their immediate foe, theres a lot less focus on 1 person when theres 10 to 40 players. This is not arenas, LoL, cs, 3 to 5 man content gets hyper focused on making no mistakes. Yes the battlegrounds in eso have 4 man teams, I'm not a fan of that personally. Too small. 3 teams is cool, but only 12 players for the whole map? I'd like bigger maps, something closer to 20 or 30 players.
Lots of obvious issues with getting newer players into PvP but I think a big one is the dying. Not only new players, but everyone dies in PvP, a lot. In PvE, where everyone starts, dying means failure. Your gear wasn't good enough. You didn't know the boss mechanics. You couldn't tank/heal/DPS good enough. In PvP, you can do everything "right", you can have the best, most optimized gear, you can know your rotation like the back of your hand, you can know how to dodge roll and move around terrain to break LOS, and you're still probably going to die if a ball group catches you running in the open or a gankblade sees you fighting a boss. Two skilled PvPers duel, one is *going* to die, even if both know what they're doing. When this stuff happens to someone who's spent their entire time in PvE, it results in a "feels bad" moment that can put them off the entire game mode.
Everyone is willing to call each other out for a poor match, but never offer any help. Why would someone ask for help when its never offered. If you're that good, why can't they share everything they know? What connection speed they have, gpu, cpu but its all skill?
What do I think would bring people back? Different game formats. Tons of maps. Exclusion of meta builds. I'll say it again get rid of racial passives. It's all about crit, x2 damage.
Under 50 battlegrounds are awful, and i feel like that keeps a lot of people from exploring it further. People make fully gold gear just for u50 bgs, so the average player who is just trying it out for the first time and is in white/green gear gets wrecked. These guys who only do u50 are destroying any opportunity for new players to enjoy pvp, until they get to endgame, and get the gear, but by then they don't want to even try it.
I'm CP over 1000 but i have never set foot in cyrodiil. I haven't even found the golden vendor. I have played battlegrounds a few times but I spend more time staring at the death recap screen than actually playing the game so that's not really fun. I could follow the "meta" for PVP all day long but it wouldn't help. I think you need a certain mind set to PVP and I don't have it/
The lag and poor performance hasn't improved since 2016 either. Can't change bars, dawnbreaker takes 5 presses to work etc. It was better with groups of 24 too.
Easy answer, people find the broken meta, they never fix it, rince and repeat all MMOs. Its fun doing it yourself for like an hour then its not fun anymore, especially when others are grouped and you aren't or the fact anything that has i-frames CAN and WILL be abused infinitely, I know know because I've done it before and I felt real bad. Why play PvP for no reward as well, minus a dunk or two. Boring as fuck. (Also mo lifers with no jobs on Site 24/7)
That’s fair and it’s absolutely true! There’s a ton of toxic PVE people as well. I just mean in any competitive environment you’ll experience it the core of PvP is competitiveness ultimately 🤙🏻
I am not a pvp-er (I've just never felt very competitive), but I do have to say that in several mmos, I've experienced a LOT of toxicity from the "elite" pve dungeon crowd. They want their dungeon runs to be fast, efficient, and damn near perfect, and if you're just learning they can be pretty rude. Sometimes people take their games WAY too seriously. 🤔
The problem is simply that PVP is trash. Bad performance, terrible balance, everything takes forever, and there’s a lot of toxic people. The balance in this game is nonexistent. If you don’t have one of the meta builds, then you just get ran over. Being able to get killed instantly, without realistically being able to do anything is a huge issue, especially for new players. How is a new player supposed to figure out anything? They just get killed immediately. There’s even tryhards in below level 50 pvp that is supposed to be for new players, but it’s ruined considering these Tryhards are running gold sets and meta. Again, how is anyone supposed to learn anything, when there’s literally unkillable people that can one shot you?
PvP ain't more popular because it doesn't fucking work. I'm constantly at like 40-60ms higher in Cyrodiil than in PvE, which is already higher than any other game for no reason. At least on EU the path data has to travel is so unoptimised without something like Exitlag that it's borderline unplayable, and i refuse to pay for yet another service just to make PvP in one game more tolerable.
One major issue with PVP is Cyrodill itself. If I'm in Cyrodill I can be killed by players. Well if I don't want to pvp, then I can't visit Cyrodill. Why can't I elect if I want other players to kill me? If there was a selection allowing me to visit Cyrodill where I can't be killed by players, I'd visit Cyrodill. Then maybe I'd PVP one day. Or every once in awhile. But I'm not pvp because Cyrodill makes me pvp. If I was given an option to have to pvp Cyrodill or not THAT would greatly increase my time there.
I think one thing currently has to do with performance issues and populations caps as is. The cap is much lower than it used to be and the cyrodiilic areas we can already explore (Gold Road now, Gold Coast & Blackwood) are what the PvE is designed for. Coming from somebody that’s done all the stuff in Cyrodiil PvE wise, you’re not missing much. It’s pretty sparse as it’s not really the purpose ultimately. I’d love PvE cyrodiil content as well! But I’d rather PvP players get their proper updates first and I’m happy with the yearly PvE content we get anyways
@@Cooperharley0204 Well I hate doing a quest that requires me to ride my horse for 20 minutes to only get spotted by pvp player who kills me. Then I start it again. To only die again! There goes 40 wastes minutes. So I play Cyrodill when I think nobody else is on. Which removes the whole point of Cyrodill anyway right? So give me an option. Maybe I glow blue or whatever. So any players glowing blue can't kill or be killed by players. That way you don't have to worry about server issues or technical issues. That seems easy enough. And I dint think I should get xp at all. Why do the guards at a resource not give me ap? They are working for the enemy!! The process of acquiring AP is a pain. Xp should be for non pvp areas. AP for pvp areas. Kill anything in either area nets you that leveling point.
Because it doesn't work, in theory it's the best PvP ever, in practice is full with bugs exploits and system design that ZOS cannot deliver. Basically it's linked with input lag, ping, FPS even more than other PvP games.
Theres a big skill gap between people who don't pvp, people who can pvp, people who are good at pvp and people who are sweaty. Find out where you stand and work on your gameplay. I suggest doing pvp with friends, learn more about builds. And always remember, theres a NB watching you even when you think you are safe lol
If you ask me why elder scrolls online isn’t more popular the answer would be because of the PvE level scaling. To me that ruins the game enough so that I would not play. I love just about everything about the game but because it is way too easy with zero challenge I lose interest.
PvP in ESO is trash. Everything is made for fun and the casual player who dont care about PvP. Zero competetive drive, no leaderboards, no way to play team vs team unless you organize it through guilds internally. Competetive arena with leaderboard where it's team vs team instead of team vs team vs team. Should have a couple teamsizes to que with, like 2v2 and 3v3 or something. An official duelling arena with leaderboards. Make cyrodil smaller and improve the objectives. This will improve the amount of battles players can have.
