Why Kings Island is Removing Vortex - Our Theories! 

Hey it's on it's way out heading to king island next season and was looking forward to riding it.

1984 has a few arrow loopers Steamin Demon at Six Flags Great Escape was built in ‘84 is so painful, and if you’ve ever ridden it, you’d know it’s coaster parody gold.

The issue is that this now leaves a big hole in a very populated area of the park. It might even hurt beast ridership, because the beast is now out even farther away from anything worth doing.

Maybe a TREX could spark!

@Josiah_is Cool I want the first rmc t rex.

As long as the Beast stays I could care less about the rest.

Adventure express: *panics quietly*

Leci I don’t think they will since that’s their most iconic coaster.

Zach Coaster crazy you don’t need to worry about the family rides

King cobra?!

More importantly it's an old ride that's NOT popular. Magnum and Iron Dragon are popular (Iron Dragon more so because it's the only true family coaster at CP since CCMR has a stupid 48" height requirement) so they are worth the money to keep running since people enjoy them. Vortex is not popular so sinking money into a ride no one wants to ride is not worth it

Definitely a possibility! Now that you say that, I wouldn't be surprised if controls were a contributing factor.

It’s all about return on investment. I don’t think this is any one factor. It’s a combination of the capital needed to keep the ride going versus the benefits of having the coaster at the park. They saw that the costs for maintenance and upkeep of the ride is likely significant enough to warrant its removal. It’s unfortunate for us fans of the ride but this is strictly a business decision. Service life is just a nice way for the park to put it. They could make these rides run forever if they were willing to upfront the capital. “service life” is simply an estimate of when the maintenance needs of the ride will outweigh the benefits of keeping it in operation.

GP To Enthusiast you shouldn’t be stacking on Gemini with four trains. It means you aren’t hustling fast enough. I remember riding Gemini when it was running 6 trains early 2000’s with no stacking. That was impressive

@@jdrammer5664 Oh trust me our crew got way better, but back in June we stacked a ton. Also back when we ran 6 trains there were no seatbelts.

I saw a math textbook with a picture of Desperadon't at the Buffalo Bills hotel/casino

one of my textbooks had diamondstack on it

mountaineers79 I sadly did not get to ride Mantis. I have rode Rougarou and I thought it was meh

@@isaacarthur4834 They should have kept the stand-up because A, I didn't get to ride it, B, Mantis was one of the few stand-ups, and C, Cedar Point is known for having basically every kind of coaster (besides a flyer) but removing Mantis left a hole.

Art N' Books Central Stand ups are outdated and they didn’t have a B&M sit down so I think it was a good decision. It’s just a shame that it’s rough.

True

Mine too, I was so proud when I got off and immediately got in line to do it again! It will be missed. Bitter sweet, as an adult... phew... started skipping over it... painful

SAME this was my first major coaster i rided. first loop. first drop that big. my friend forced me on it without even seeing the coaster and i road it twice!! sad to see it go :/

Did you enjoy your small concussion?

Same😢

Rode it possibly for the last time today (I live 5 mins away may go to the park tomorrow) and a girl behind me said "I almost bit my tongue off." Enough said lol

It's honestly not that bad I've ridden this for a long time now but it's not nearly as bad as like the son of beast was that was actually painful and hurt riding it

@@5rc Yikes I usually got sick after it that was really the only thing that happened to me

TBH they should have tore it down in 2010~2013 it was so rough I couldn't think of riding again

Geoff Seiter bitter sweet

Nahhhh, it’s still one of my favorite coasters. Hate to see it go

I rode it it 2004 or 2005 and loved it. Then I rode it in 2017 and it was horrible-so rough and jerky and gave me a headache. Good riddance lol

It was horrible for me as an adult liked it as a kid. I’m shocked how good viper is magic mountain really takes care of it

Nah I’m sad it’s gone. Haven’t ridden it since I was a kid, but I don’t remember it being rough. Only one I remember being rough was beast/ son of beast. Then again, kids are a lot more elastic so I probably just didn’t notice haha

@@harorider96 It was such a beautiful coaster aesthetically. It was also a great rite of passage coaster... if you were a scared first time coaster rider and could get through the Vortex, you were good to go with anything else. That is until the first generation seats on "Flight of Fear" (anyone remember those foam pillows that felt like boxing gloves?) :-)

I think Anaconda will go after Volcanos replacement comes in

@@AdamSmith-gs2dv of all the parks in the region I live (Baltimore/DC), I feel like KD has had more coasters closed than any other in my lifetime. I haven't done any research to back that up, but the list seems long: King Kobra, Hypersonic XLC, Hurler, Shockwave, and Volcano. I don't think Anaconda is long in the tooth, but I also wonder about Avalanche, to be honest.

Let's HOPE Anaconda is next. Talk about crappy ride taking up a prime spot in the park

@@patrickwagner98 I wouldn't care if avalanche was removed. It has terrible capacity. I want Anaconda to stay because of it being a 'classic arrow'.

@warallthetime I like arrows tho :'( Welp on the bright side at least you have Mind Eraser XD

Michigan's Adventure is a phantom limb at this point. They might as well.

@@ilikerollercoasters4757 If Michigan's Adventure can't get vortex because Cedar Fair will decide to scrap Vortex because they still have to pay for it so moving it won't make any difference in finances.

Yes! Please! Michigan’s Advnture was doing so well before Cedar Fair came along. It’s my home park, and I want it to thrive.

you are not going to believe this but Michigan's Adventure is actually a pretty profitable part for Cedar Fair to own..

bjtgaming Was just going to say the same thing. That park that never gets anything new actually makes a steady profit.

Marcus you put it into words so beautifully! I completely agree, I love that little path!!!!

Hahaha

Lololol

They are making Orion.

Matterhorn, Lochness, and Magnum are historic coasters and their parks care alot about them. Disney refurbished the Matterhorn between 2012-2015, BGW refurbed Lochness Monsters trains last year, and Magnum got a new control panel a few years ago and got a new lighting package in the third tunnel this year. Simply put I don't see any of these three leaving anytime soon if at all.

"mourning'

I wish there were smaller parks out there that would make Cedar Fair on offer on Vortex so they could dismantle it and move it to their own park. It would be like breathing life new into an aging coaster like Vortex, even if it doesn't make financial sense to some people. I think if they did something like that though, it would be the perfect opportunity to refurbish the coaster and upgrade some of the aging controls and such that needed it. I'm sure it would gain popularity with all of that done and a new home. Nessie is one of my favorite Arrow loopers and I hope BGW never gets rid of it. That's probably one of the smoothest, most popular coasters the company ever built and I don't see it leaving any time soon. I know they've done work to it the past few years. I just rode Vortex this past June though and found it to be an enjoyable ride, a lot smoother than I was expecting actually so I'm sad to see it go.

Is it though?? I'm personally ecstatic to see these old clunkers go. They're rough to a point where it physically hurts to ride them, they're not forceful, and they're not very impressive compared to today's modern coasters. I get that people are nostalgic about their coasters, but man... these are just bad.

OMG yesss!

Probably not enough room under the chassis to do so even if cost wasn't a factor.

@@sharkheadism There is more than enough room.

@@electric7487 Do you have a diagram or anything?

@@sharkheadism You could fit two magnets where the two sliding pieces of the brakes are. Make sure they are in opposite orientations though. (One magnet has north at thebfront, and the other has south at the front)

@@electric7487 I meant fit the mag brake fin to the chassis of the train

In the Heights reference?

last year when I went to haunt (and my first visit back to the park since Cedar Fair bought it), Vortex closed down because a raccoon managed to climb up into the station and they had to remove it lol.

@@whitneyg9150 I remember one time I was in line for White Water canyon (thier raft ride) ane they had to shut it down because deer had gotten into the water. They just wanted to ride to

Oh i went to the Kingsland haunt

And wen i rode it it didn't brake down

Once I witnessed Vortex being evacuated on the lift hill because a storm was approaching, and I ended up going on it later that day with no line at all. Fun memories lol

Josh R. I personally LOVE Vortex and I think that Invertigo and bat are great to but I think those will be the next ones to go.

@@delani655 they are too rough for tall skinny people, harnesses don't fit right. Heck, banshee has issues with me but the ride is smooth enough. Those three are choppy. Bat has sucked since it opened, when you spend more time going up the hill than you do going down that's a problem. When you spend even more time than the hill waiting to enter the station, that's worse.

Josh R. I’m short and skinny and I had a hard ride on Vortex... your right tho!!

I was about the say. In the recent years, i've heard too many negative things about this ride. A lot of people are sad, but also many are glad. This ride literally caused my mom to stop riding coasters the rest of the day. The wooden ones didn't even hurt her she claims, but this ride hurt her so bad, she had to stop riding coasters and my mom LOVES coasters and will ride them all day long, so you know its bad when she has to stop. She says when this ride first opened, it was way more smooth, but over the years, it just has worn out.

Yes! It left me bruised and so sore this summer!!

Nobody from Ohio goes anywhere near Vortex. Last time I rode it I had a headache for the rest of the day.

It slammed my jaw on the hard restraints and bruised my entire jawline and cheek. They also had seat belts which uh.... I was in the back and a seat belt came undone mid ride, thank god for fail safes.

So close the beast?????

I’m still disappointed with the replacement for Dragon Challenge. I haven’t been to Universal Studios Orlando in nearly a decade, but from the POVs released by the park... the new roller coaster just seems underwhelming compared to its predecessor.

@@brandonclark887 Hagrid's looks overrated. I don't care what the Potter people say, it doesn't look as good as the Dragons.

@@brandonclark887 It's a travesty those two were scrapped. They ran so beautifully smooth, and probably could have been sold separately.

+The Bearded Weirdo coaster freak. actually, Alan Schilke is still alive. but he's better off where he is right now sooooo

*Laughs in Vekoma*

Arrow lives on in Vekoma, S&S, and RMC

S&S owns arrows affairs so anyone could probably buy the plans from them and turnaround and get vekoma, intamin etc to build past rides.

@@DoswarePictures cci is now GCI and Gravity Group

Anthony Alifano They might REMAKE SON OF BEAST

MinecraftGaming012 FGTeeV personal just use the same layout with the loop and RMC it we all want it so

Yeah. Its rough having CW as your home park. There is like 3-4 good rides there.

Trash Time Warp for a Railblazer clone

@@overlookers How about a custom

@@shane952 At least you have a home park. I live in Maine

Flight Deck could be improved with better profiling and restraints. Time Warp? I don't know, but it needs something.

Andrew Snyder The trams!!!! Omg those were sooo relieving after a long hot day of playing in the sun. You brought back such great memories, thanks!

By 2010 the ride was so rough I'm surprised it took that long to tear it dowm

Nah there are third party vendors that still provide parts for older rides and these Arrows are pretty basic compared to modern rides. If anything the concern was man-hours spent working on it.

There is no way in hell Orion won’t be better than Vortex

@@WapoStudios he was referring to Firehawk. It was definitely a fan favorite despite it's mechanical issues and slow dispatch time

@@patrickn8355 idk i rode firehawk once and i was just in pain the entire time. my body didn't like it at all

@@whitneyg9150 ya it definitely happens. I always found that the more you just let yourself be completely weightless on the harness it's way better and more fun

A giga that looks more like a hyper at that, whom designed it/wanted it designed like that? They already have a hyper, it has way too many basic hyper elements. With two removed classic coasters in exchange for a bigger version of the hyper basically. Glad it's not my home park.

Coaster Countdowns I did that with an arrow corkscrew at canobie lake park. The line is nonexistent. Do your riding!

The roller coaster is very rough, but nothing too bad. Also, have you ridden it after the refurbishment? The brakes are top-tier!!

Sam B I only ridden it before and I had really low expectations so it seemed good

Ti Dough I love them for that. They can be a bit rough but I love the classics!

Megazap I SUSPECT ITS A BIG REASON

Yes but don't get your hopes up, CP hasn't worked with Vekoma for awhile. I'd bet more on a Gerstlauer Infinity coaster or a Mack Mega coaster

Adam Smith Both tend to not age well.

@@bbolin5626 Mack mega coasters not aging well? That's the first time I read that. Blue Fire is still running as smoothly as day one.

Maxime Cretton For some reason though, Copperhead Strike was pretty bumpy when I did it.

I wouldn't mind seeing them come to Kings Island. BUT Im not sure how they would fit in the section or park Vortex is in....BUT then again, You have "Action Theater" in Coney Mall, "Back lot Stunt Coaster" in Coney Mall, "Windseeker" in Coney Mall, and "Mystic Timbers" in Rivertown....so in hindsight.... screw it why not!

Kromaa arrow as a company does not exist anymore it went bankrupt s&s makes some of the parts. Arrow can not fix it since they don’t exist anymore.

Patrick Spiers I know arrow went bankrupt, but I mean give us parts to fix it.

And its an landmark ACE icon. No other coaster in the world has interlocking loops and taking it down would just....ruin that area of the park.

@@pharaohflame315 Plus it still gets a good amount of riders Vortex doesn't

@@pharaohflame315 any landmarked coaster would be taken down

@@moonfoot1 Lochness will never be taken down. And if they did, it would kill that scenic area of Scotland.

I still ride every time I go to Busch

Ohhh. Put the Son by the Papa! That'll be a nice touch. :-)

i could see a new Son of Beast coaster there. That is a great spot right next to the Beast.

Clutch Master good luck

Line was long because everyone heard they were removing it. If you went a weekend before that the ride would be a walk-on

Taylor doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Cedar Fair last quarter were great and Q3 prelim numbers were really good. He's talking out of his backside just like Amusement Non Insiders does. People need to educate themselves before talking, CF had a almost 3 hour presentation on their new strategy with the data,surveys, focus groups that guided it. The entire chain is going to a Knotts like model. Events, festivals, limited time stuff, interactive attractions, things for all ages. Big Capex projects will be spread out like Knotts which gets a coaster every6 years. CF specifically state they see no need to add coasters every 2 to 3 years, which is what CP has been getting the last decade and KI every 3 years. CF essentially stated 2020 additions were pre set from before the plan change. So. KI sneaked in their giga under the wire. They said 2021 will be the full implementation of the new strategy. CF talked extensively about efficiency of Capex. Also, every park will get something every year.

Grobble Here’s the link to the presentation I think you are referring to s2.q4cdn.com/170666959/files/doc_presentations/2019/09/FUN-Investor-Presentation_2019-09-Stifel-RS-for-website.pdf

@@grobble8954 Yes, when you want the truth out of an American company, you go straight to the stockholders announcements! So reliable! What's happening here is painfully obvious: Cedar Fair is forcing its "lesser" parks to close rides so they can brag about their "cost-cutting measures" at their next stockholders meeting. Come on, they made the announcement right before the end of the Third Quarter Earnings Call! What a coincidence!!! They also JUST announced layoffs at the Schlitterbahns. Earnings are up and yet all this cost-cutting? So mysterious... Except it's not. Cedar Fair is like Disney in so many ways, especially in the fact that it loves its stockholders more than it loves its visitors. Cedar Point is a perfect example of this in action. I went in June and it was a hot mess. Two coasters down all day. 3 or 4 that didn't bother opening until around noon, including the newest hotness. Several coasters broke down throughout the day, with Millennium Force breaking down almost hourly. Many flat rides weren't even running at full capacity. So lines were kept artificially long, meaning they were selling tons of Fast Lane Passes - $$$! - so Fast Lane lines were often longer than the standby lines. I rode SIX rides and I was there from open to close. On a weekday! Stockholders like expansion. And they like cutting costs. This happens with Disney almost every year. Right before the end of their Fiscal Year, they make some acquisition or announce a new park, and then the cutbacks begin. This year, after acquiring Fox, being forced to expand their most-attendance-affected parks, and announcing Disney+, they almost immediately started with the layoffs. Fox lost hundreds and that wasn't enough so now Disney's own studios are seeing the knife. Walt Disney World lost a lot of entertainment - again - yet ticket prices are still sky-high. That's what Cedar Fair does. They're just not big enough to do it the way Disney can. In fact, they are going down a route Disney went down years ago - minimal maintenance. It's already having a negative effect - my previously-mentioned coaster breakdowns - but things can get worse. Disneyland killed a man on Big Thunder Mountain thanks to a minimized maintenance budget. Valravn crashed due to this same exact issue, but apparently Cedar Fair needs to also kill someone before they learn a lesson. Cedar Fair sucks. Stop with the excuses or they will continue to suck.

They're doing that to World's of Fun too. Haven't had a new coaster in 10 years

@@kevinbhieey9188 When you want the truth go to the delusional & ignorant ramblings of a fanboy that puts on vlear display they have no understanding of business. You might want want to know something about business before wasting your time spouting nonsense. CF and every chain has been taking about costs for years. Labor costs are up huge as more states increase minimum wages, wages increase in general and parks having to pay more to attract people in general. All parks and chains are having staffing issues. Labor is 65% of any chains costs. Read an annual report and educate yourself and stop being a whiny know nothing enthusiast. . Btw, if you knew anything you would know Six Flags cut an hour a day from operations of every park in the chain except SFMM and GAdv to cut costs. They even did it at incredibly busy parks like SFGAm. This is an across the industry thing as costs the last few years have been rising at 10+ % rate. SEAS cut people too recently. Schlittebahn staff cuts were expected, if you actually knew anything you would know that was mentioned as a concern from Schitterbahn employees right after the acquisition b/c it's common thing after a sale. CF state in July they were in an evaluation stage, they at first said they were going to invest 10 to 15M in the parks. Now, they stated 20M. Back to cutting costs, Cedar Fair stated they wanted to reduce debt. The debt to EBIDTA after the 500M in borrowing this year push the ratio to 4.4X. They want the ratio below 4X and stated they wanted to do it as soon as possible. Nothing mysterious, but you know nothing. This was stated in their almost 3 hour analyst day presentation that also detailed their new strategy, which as a person who know nothing you were clearly unaware of what it presented. Yes, in the minds of idiots that know nothing about business CF wants rides to break on purpose so people have a bad time. Yes, that's why the major ride closer was at KI, the 3rd biggest park in regards to revenue and EBIDTA. The other closures were Dinos Alive which were being removed across the chain as the contracts expired. Yes, CF is taking from the lesser parks, and that's why the new strategy is to give every park something every year. Please shut up and be thought to be stupid, instead of posting and proving it.

I think that's another great point. Another commenter mentioned control panels could be an issue as well. I think it's likely a combination of things, not just one sole reason. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all 3 of those things!

Jacob Bacci Or just run Vortex with 2 trains instead of 3.

Agree, I don't particularity like riding Vortex, me personally I just think its to rough and not all that thrilling. BUT it is a very beautiful ride, especially while sitting on the wall or benches and watching it run. Even though Im not a huge fan of it, I'll certainly miss it.

Dylan Rowan Not yet, kd needs their replacement first lol

Would be nice but CF doesn't seem to like Intamin much anymore...

Nah what if they released a remake of the son of beast it would be a perfect location if they needed space they have extra area and it would iconic because it would be right by its father.

Phainzer that would be stupid

If they're going for that style, they'd likely be talking with Mack. Not a whole lot of difference aesthetically, and with work like Copperhead Strike and Helix, Mack can deliver. I'd personally like to see Vekoma in there. Lech Coaster is their newer work and it is night and day difference from SLCs.

Agree, after riding some of the newer coasters with modern restraints, this one felt like I was being flung around and punched in the face.

Leci accurate. I love this ride, really do, but it was painful

Shoulder restraints beat u up

Ikt