I grew up in rural Ontario (Canada) and there was a local big band. They needed a bass player and a guy I knew recommended me despite the fact that I was: a) 15 years old b) couldn't read music for shit c) had no idea how to play jazz I'll never forget the first rehearsal. I pull out the bass book and... NO CHORD CHANGES! I could read chord symbols ok but a chart with only notation was instant death. I read the first bar or so as quickly as I could before they counted it off. The band started up and after a bar or so I just stopped playing. The first trumpet/band leader yelled "Don't stop playing! It doesn't matter if you're not playing the right notes, just don't stop!" The tune finished and I just wanted to crawl under my chair and die. There was no guitar player in the band so I grabbed the guitar book and played out of that for the rest of the rehearsal. At least I could outline the changes. Fortunately for me everyone was super supportive (and very, very desperate for a bass player) and they kept me on. That's how I learned to play bass. That band was my music school. I got lucky.
I had a similar experience growing up here in SLC area. My buddy who came from a musical family (his dad was music director of the Utah Symphony) needed a bass player and I was asked to join his band, I was also 15 (in 1969). I'm not sure how I bungled my way through that audition but we had a lot of fun and it led to a spot on the Jazz Band in high school. To this day the drummer and I are still good friends fifty something years later. Cheers.
Just randomly started playing Autumn Leaves on my piano as you guys are talking about jazz standards, and suddenly Scott comes in with the bass line for the next chorus right on the downbeat in the same key and tempo. Thanks man!
At one point, I started teaching myself jazz harmony on guitar, writing solo chord melody arrangements, etc. Moving from rock to jazz was like moving from elementary school science to graduate astrophysics. Just picking up the rudiments was super challenging, humbling, and demanding--and very rewarding.
I feel very fortunate to have had a jazz teacher when I was 14 years old and just starting bass. I'm not going to say I ever became a skilled jazz bassist, but the principles he taught me have informed my playing for the last 30 years. I mostly play rock music. But that doesn't mean the ability to connect chords together using scales and walking lines isn't useful. In fact, it's this ability to visualize bass lines on the fly that has gotten me many gigs. I'm not the most technically advanced player. But if you put me in a room with 3-4 other musicians and they play for me a song I've never heard before I can quickly come up with something that both sounds good and is interesting. And I can do that because of my solid foundation in jazz theory. It trains your ear to quickly recognize patterns and it trains your mind to build within those patterns.
I feel it almost inevitable the longer your tenure in playing instruments. You will go through those phases playing punk power-chords, then you hear chunky 1-finger drop-D/C riffs and that becomes your thing for a while. Then it's maybe shred... and then those 7-strings start laughing at your feeble 6. And then you get a bass... and the music your parents listened to, all the Motown, R&B and soul starts to become awesome. Like, at some point in peoples musical journey they'll eventually just come around to "MUSIC is cool" rather than just "GENRE is cool", and start experimenting outwards. This is usually when the jazz and prog comes in and appreciation for all music styles.
What a beautiful discussion - two great players who only became great by the humility, generosity, and passion on display here. Brilliant stuff, gentlemen - Thank you so much!
I think Ian has said this before, but you've got to find something you LOVE about music to play it and learn it. I really really love Jazz music, and bass in particular, and it was still the hardest thing to learn (still is!) But because I LOVED the music it made the whole process much easier and more fun for me. I was also lucky to have encouraging and nice mentors who were patient with me learning the craft, without tossing my bass into the street haha!
This is one of your best conversations. I'm trying to be a real bass player too. A long road and I'm trying to learn jazz a much as I can, but get distracted.
You guys are so infectiously positive and I always appreciate it! I hope (and honestly suspect) that your great attitudes will have an overall positive effect on the vibe of jazz over time, at least from the bass chair’s perspective. Thank you both for making jazz so approachable. I love the idea of falling down forward. The “reluctant jazz guy” really resonated with me also. ✌️❤🎶
When you started playing the Longview bassline I died laughing… my first jazz tryout that I had to improv was in D major when I didn’t know theory… I just knew Longview was on a d so I started playing with that and it sounded good for the first couple of bars and then just started playing what sounded good with those notes. Improv ended up being my highest score in that tryout😂 37:53
I’m a lifetime member at SBL and I’ve bought all the accelerator courses. I’ve been a member for a LONG time and I’m split on the recent offerings. On one hand I’m stoked to see the programs grow in format and interaction. It’s really, really awesome. I honestly think that the way these programs are evolving sets them apart from anything else available on the internet. SBL is the online platform I compare all other platforms to. On the other hand, the last 3 offerings (the blueprint, the live practice sessions, and now the Jazz intensive) have priced me out and, frankly, I’m jealous that I can’t take part. I think they are priced well for what is being offered, I just really want to be a part of them and just can’t afford it.
That's where I'm at. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but $2000 is SO much money! It sucks to be priced out of all the new offerings, but at least there's still a huge amount of stuff in the regular academy membership to work through.
Hey, am a rock bass player on a pick for a 20 years now and I always felt tempted to join Scott's program but there's so much going on, I never took the time to learn the depth of bass. I do NOT want to be a jazz musician but I do understand the value of knowledge "behind the scenes". Great podcast, a bit long but great nevertheless! I also love the storytelling bits which makes the whole podcast very personal, warm and human-like. Well done guys, I wish I could join some day and would be great to meet in person as well (I live in London UK). All the best, cheers!
The thing is, to play jazz, you need to know your chords and scales and music theory to a much bigger degree than pop or rock. So once you've learned it, you will know music and your instrument better, even if you decide not play jazz as your main thing.
I was in my high school’s “jazz band,” which was a vocal jazz/show choir. When I graduated, I had no idea how much jazz I didn’t know and got embarrassed trying to play with tons of jazz groups. The thing that stopped me from learning jazz: I was gigging in a country band making $200-500 a gig, then I’d show up to my college jazz band on Monday and got sneered at by jazz guys who’d never played a gig outside of school. People will say that the institutionalization of jazz in colleges ruined it, but I think a more crucial component of that mythos is how jazz guys completely chased people off from an already-dying genre. This happened to me in the 2010s, and it doesn’t really seem much different from what was happening in earlier eras.
Not taking anything away from any genre of music, but jazz has quietly made everything that came after better. I don't care for heavy metal music, but I love the drummers with those double bass pedals going, man its awesome. I think as musicians we should be able to make music that we don't care for sound better. We shouldn't shy away from things that are challenging. Man what if Jaco thought like that? He embraced all music.
ok i love your channel watching a long time and one ting that you have not covered is dub, reggae, ska 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's 90's etc as i feel them are the best bass players of that music. please can you do an episode on them bass players thanks
Olinto Jazz Bass : 60s - Fender Antigua Jazz Bass : 70s - WONT SOUND THE SAME. I don't care the wood, the construction, the pickup wire::: the bridge pickup placement changes EVERYTHING. Period.
You're of course totally right. They made this for me not to sound the same - but to see if they could beat the Antigua. It's a better instrument in every metric . . . but I still love love my 78 to the moon and back.
@@IanMartinAllison your 78 is my dream tone for Jazz Bass, there's something in the old 71-83 pickups... I tried the Pure Vintage 74 and 75 but they don't sound the same at all! Aging probably :) have a nice day Ian
My love of bass playing is rooted in my love of groove. And there's no discernible groove in 99% of the jazz I've heard. It's just a neverending storm of bloopity blip bops that never find their way to any semblance of a groove. "You just don't get it bro" You're right, I don't. And I'm all the way okay with that. P.S. If you mix jazz with something else, I can dig it. Fusion is spectacular.
As someone with similar stories of musical harshness from older players/teachers growing up: those people are losers. There's nothing cool, informative, or helpful when someone more experienced humiliates a student, especially when that student is a child. It's seriously despicable and it took/is taking me many years to break out of that humiliation and embrace jazz as the fun medium it actually is. Patience and understanding go much farther than the yard stick ever does.
I've heard it's better to learn one song inside & out than glancing several songs. I'd rather jump in the deep end of the pool and touch the bottom instead of sticking a foot in the shallow end and moving on. All 12 keys, etc. That said, what's the first standard I should dig into?
@@IanMartinAllison I was wondering if you were going to say that! It's commonly the one you're "supposed" to learn first. I assume it's not a just cliche, but for the pragmatic reason of ingraining the circle of fifths. Thanks, Ian!
I own a bass guitar (I wouldn’t call myself a bass player). I’m married with children and don’t have much time to devote to this instrument…but I do wish I could. I love this instrument. Thank you for providing this type of content. I would love to get to the skill level one day to play with others. I admire you guys and all of the people you feature on this channel for your mastery of this instrument. Thank you for your time!
I started bass in 1990 at junior high school, in what turns out was a very special and not common way. I was lucky to have a very good music teacher that in that three years took us through basically everything from Swing to Jazz to Blues to Soundtracks to Rock. He was super encouraging and we were doing live concerts within a few months for holiday concerts. After those 3 years, high school was a more grumpy but just as talented teacher. It was only a few year period on both sides of my experience that the same combo of teachers existed, but those of us that went through it got a crazy education that even years later, I'm still finding ways that my path was much different. Kind of embarrassed I guess that I never really played much after 2000 let alone had an option to turn it into a career, I definitely had a very good setup for it.
Thanks guys, great podcast, it really is hanging out with friends ! - The videos are great & I intuit that the platform is amazing. I have noticed over the years when there's been a certain 'jock' mentality towards music, thankfully not here. Although admittedly I did cackle when Scott said 'Oh Jazz, brrr bu brrr bmm bu bmm - & then with Ian's testimony, replete with a great big caricature smiley face !
Another great episode! I must say, from walking bass lines, to the modes of the major scale, to the circle of fifths, and so much more, I have learned so much from SBL over the last few years! Love you guys! Now get Tal Wilkenfeld on your show!! =D
Jazz is way more fun on the Bass than Guitar. I've been a guitar player for nearly 40 years and except for Joe Pass I was never turned on by Jazz Guitar. I've always loved the Bass in Jazz (I played Trumpet in High School Marching and Concert Band, I played Bass in Jazz Band), so now that I'm finally really getting into Jazz I'm back on the bass.
It's an entirely different language. Inflection, verb and noun placement. Like others have said, it's probably 'best' learned around other jazz musicians. Immersion learning for the best results. I dabble in 60's and 70's R&B, mostly rock and hard rock. Jazz is overwhelming to me. I played violin as a child, 10 y/o, but there's a huge gap between when that happened, and when I started playing bass at 15.
Had a previous teacher suggest jazz to level up my playing (from level 0 lol) but haven't found a way to learn it. Signed up for Scott's Jazz Lab and have high hopes for it.
Thank you guys - for your honesty! I have a Master's degree in Jazz Studies from one of the best schools in the world. I got my degree in 1996 and walked away from music. You're right, in general, jazz players are dicks. The industry is full of sheisters and back-slapping good ol' boys. Some of the very best players are incredibly inspiring. Most players aren't "great." It shows by their jealousy of others' talent and derision of those who aren't as good as they are. I can't tell you how many jam sessions that I went to where the rhythm section would alter chords to confuse people sitting in - or just to make them sound badly. As I got better, I realized this. I had an amazing career in music and the degree just showed me that I didn't want to be with this kind of culture. I play bass now (for about 3 months). I never EVER played a stringed instrument in my life (woodwind player). I LOVE it, it's fun, and it's going to remain a hobby. I might gig, but I will never allow that kind of behavior towards someone who wants to "try" playing music of any kind in my rhythm section.
In high school i was in a class called guitar workshop and it was my second year. Its basically a blow off class and you really didn't learn anything. One day i decided to bring in my sisters Yamaha RBX 170, a pretty decent bass for the price. The music teacher knew i was pretty good at guitar and told me that i was going to be in the jazz band next year since the bass player was going to graduate. I just though "oh cool, bass cant be that bad". The next year i showed up to class and i had no idea what i was doing, i knew how to play chords on guitar but i didn't understand anything about what notes made up the chords, i had no real experience playing jazz outside of being a low chair trumpet player. We played a ton of standards but one of the song the band played a lot was What is Hip, which was particularly brutal. I used to just fake my way through sight reading, then i would go home and figure out which notes were in the chords and put it into Guitar Pro then play along to it to try and learn, and i would then print that out to use in rehearsal. The teacher was pretty frustrated with me since i didn't know what i was doing. The guy is an incredible trumpet player but a particularly bad teacher. I was so stressed all the time about messing up which made me play worse. After the school year I didn't even touch the bass during summer break, i just played guitar. When the next school year started we had a new teacher, since the old one went to a new school that got built. The new teacher would actually try and help the students to learn. We started doing some sight reading and after a year of faking my way though it i guess i learned some stuff. The piano player looked over at me after the first song and he said "did you practice a lot over the summer?" I guess i just stopped worrying about being bad and started to feel the music. I would still take home the chart and tab it out but eventually it got to the point where i would just listen to the rest of the band and try to complement them, playing different walking lines within the chord. The new teacher was really into competition and for the first time in decades the school competed in marching, jazz, and choir competitions. The Monday after a competition we would listen to the tapes of what the judges would say. It was so vindicating when they would mention they liked what i was doing. I went on to play not only in the jazz band, but i was in the pit for marching band where we played a bunch of Queen songs, played in the pit for Percussion competitions. Now years later i still consider myself to be a guitarist, but i play bass more than any of my other instruments and I just enjoy it so much more. On no other instrument can i feel the music and just intuitively write something like i can on bass. I didn't have a bass for years but i finally got one about 5 years ago, it was on clearance at guitar center for less than half of what it was listed for, i bought it and it just felt like the perfect bass for me. I ended up looking up the model number LTD RB-1004 and to my amusement it was a Rocco Prestia signature. The same guy who wrote the bass line i struggled with so much years before.
Jazz is like learning a new language. In classical music, everything is bassically (sorry about the pun) played as written but jazz is more of branching out of that. Most modern music pulls from jazz and blues progressions and tunes. I totally get that Jazz can be challenging but if you understand the language, you can pretty much speak fluently.
You just gotta go for it, just make sure you have some real nice high grit stuff for the end. And get some tung oil or something like that to put on when you’re done
Something I found out recently is the Jamerson would write his lines around power chords. Playing a lot of first, fifths, and octaves. At first I thought there is no way this is true. But sure enough after looking over his lines, yep it's true.
I've never been able to appreciate jazz, I just don't care for it in general. I appreciate the musicians and their ability but the music just doesn't do it for me. I wish I could get into it but I just can't.
@@seanoxton5572I’m in a similar situation but I do like some jazz. What style of music do you like? There might be some jazz that is similar to what genres you like.
@@raymondjamesrivera I'm sure there is. I'm probably being a little unfair not giving it another chance, I've just found that I can't get into when I have. Just not my thing I guess.
SCOTT!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHORT SCALE BASSES SUCK??? THEY SOUND WAAAY MORE BASSY! I HAD LOST THE USE OF MY HANDS FOR 6 YRS. 3 SURGERIES LATER I LOST SOME FRET HAND SPREAD. THEN I DISCOVERED HOW MUCH BETTER SHORT SCALE BASSES SOUND THAN 34"
Hey, love the RU-vid content. There seems to be almost nothing anywhere on In Ear Monitors (IEM) - maybe you could do an hour on that for idiots like me?
I’m so glad you guys talked about this. I love jazz and I love to play it, but the culture of jazz ensembles and jam sessions is really toxic and full of people who watched Whiplash and thought the music teacher was the good guy 😅
really interesting episode, thank god for all the alternative cats who tore down the stereotypes and they leveled the plain field for the new generations.
Ever watch the movie Whiplash? I was getting those kind of vibes from your boat story, lol. My high school band director was very similar, but in turn, I feel my dedication towards my music journey is much stronger because of this.
In an introduction and tutorial for performance of jazz/popular music, (once more popular), I would encourage listening to standards sung by "straight" singers There is much to be learned from a few years of hearing those songs, rhythm sections and short solos/ oblongatos
PS We have all had terrible bandstand/ classroom/ audition/ humiliation My saddest times were getting replaced with no discussion or warning Most embarrassing -- orchestra Liszt Les Preludes I could not play the rhythm in a soli with trumpet Conductor made some mean comments; a few of orchestra chuckled I so wished I had not been there
I found Scott and Ian's horror stories inspiring. I'm a 62 year old newbie and they've made learning bass seem a lot less intimidating. Now for the stupid question: What is a walkking bassline?
They call it "walking" because it tries to move from tone to tone in small steps, ideally seconds and thirds, and only occasionally fifth, octaves or other intervals.
Learning to admit I don't know a thing was a big shift. I don't know if it was competition or hanging out with a bunch of know-it-all hipsters or what, but I always pretended I knew, or knew about "but couldn't remember, refresh me" when some obscure band or technique was brought up by someone else. Eventually I learned to find it really COOL to learn new stuff, to let someone else geek out on me. What I do NOT accept is when they try to big time me by acting surprised that I don't know a thing. There are reaction videos on YT of musicians reacting to Metallica. Metallica. And they've never heard them. That means I can have missed out on Skrankling Menfolk of Drusselstein. I can learn about them and that's cool. I also try to never pull that on someone else. "You've never heard of [x]?!" Instead of judgement, excitement that I get to share something new.
Good talk. Apart from conducting, jazz bass (not just walking bass, but rather the entire discipline of performing jazz on the bass) is the most challenging, demanding, stimulating, rewarding musical pursuit of my 60- years as a musician.
I think part of the "bass playing as sport" competitive aspect comes from the fact that most bass players and other instrument wranglers are guys. Guys are always competing with each other whether they realise it or not. This is not necessarily a bad thing! But it can be. Just IMO. The reason I never played jazz is because my first teacher ridiculed me for wanting to play rock. So, from 15 years old on, I taught myself to play. Had a bass lesson here and there in the interceding 50 years of playing, but mostly I'm self taught, twice. When I was 42 I lost all the feeling on the palm of my left hand and my fingers, so had to teach myself to play again. Not as well. I WAS a badass. Now I'm just half-assed. My very first teacher made me not like jazz at all, and I mostly still don't. Jazz was always too overwhelming to me, so I never learned it. I don't like jazz standards, but I do like people like Louis Cole.
Making music competitive is lame. Creating art or allowing people to connect emotionally with sound is amazing. Sometimes it’ll be Brown Eyed Girl and that’ll be someone’s family’s funeral song and playing it tidy will move them. Sometimes it might be something super angular from a jazz dimension that opens the door to someone experiencing something real. Anyway - insecurity is lame, everyone should except we are all watery meat sacks with floppy knobbly bits and that we can do anything interesting is amazing. A grade 8+ jazz poo smells the same as a grade 1 pop poo.
Yeah, learning Jazz on bass can be really rough. I played in jazz band in high school, reading only the notes. Then, finally learned how to construct walking lines (along with finally learning upright) in college. Unfortunately, I hadn't really bothered memorizing or analyzing chord progressions, until about 14-15 years after that. It's slow going, but that's why they call it work! My first bass teacher was a rock guitarist, soo I feel that pain. 😅 For using a pick with Jazz, I think if would be totally acceptable to use a rubber pick, a felt pick, or even a thicker pick with more rounded or curved edges (and maybe roll off a bit more tone or treble).
Ian: [Jazz] Has to be made accessible Scott: I agree Also Scott: **Removes accessible and neurodivergent friendly jazz course and replaces it with super expensive course that prices out most people that would want to learn and revolves around features that scare many neurodivergents.**
I always hated Antigua…but I absolutely love seeing Ian play his! There's just something so cool about seeing somebody that talented keep coming back to the same instrument. I hope Scott can find his Excalibur too 😂
HI Scott and Ian. I used to hate jazz, not because of the music, Nina Simona and Ella Fitzgerald, plus a brief email dialogue with Carol Kaye gave me a appreciation for the skills needed.. Not sure if you will count this, but one of the first bass lines ive learnt is fever by Peggy Lee. Bit it was the snobbery and pretentiousness of the jazz players - remember the fast show? Its like Jazz was superior and alll other forms less than as Ian Mentioned those who've gone to music school and can reel off intervals for the overly complicated jazz chords. . .. I agree that so much can be learnt but it can be overwhelming as a newbie. I'm so appreciative that you've shared your story as a beginner and the mistakes you've made, the first bass teacher I went to in my local area was the only one and unfortunately a Major douchebag with an ego the size of texas. I came home and vowed I would find another way by books and your channel. when i'm not working away at sea - so its two steps forward one step back sort of thing. thanks for taking the time to read,
Besides that it’s only four strings and most basic baselines seem easy to play…. There a lot about playing bass as a newb where you just don’t know what you don’t know. Heck I’ve been playing 50 years and I’m still learning!
Love the channel! Story's pretty phenomenal. The 21 year old you would be really proud to see you now. ..... My dude, you gotta get that bracelet away from your Panerai! It's killin' me! Lol
I BELIEVE that jazz is the launching point for everything else, but online courses are very difficult...I wish I could find someone for in person. I'm in ATL, any recommendations?
I’m going to a gig on Wednesday at Ronnie Scott’s that your mate Hadrian Feraud is playing in Mike Stern’s band. Dennis Chambers is on drums, Bob Franceschini on sax and Leni Stern guitar / vocals. I’ll let them know you think jazz sucks. No context, just that you think jazz sucks.😊
After playing bass for a decade, I bought a guitar. But never tried to work on my guitar technique and theory. A couple of years ago I dived into playing guitar like a beginner. I paid attention to leave no gaps in my theory or technique as I advance. Chords, fingerpicking, arpeggios... It requires some patience if you consider yourself an intermediate/advanced musician, but music is huge and deep, and one can never reach its frontiers; there is always an area to grow into. To cut it short, nothing improved my bass playing like guitar. Only you have to keep balance and practice both daily. The size and feel difference of both instruments might test you as you switch them but after some time you adapt. Now as an intermediate guitar player I perceive bass playing and theory in a new light. Wish I had started earlier. Also, I recommend learning basic piano/keyboard to put music theory and knowledge in a perspective. Being a bass player is not a license for being ignorant.
The 70s bass is 1978ish because of the strat knobs. I had one with a rosewood neck. My 1975 reissue has a ton of gloss. Currently doing a Monk course in London with a homemade 70s jazz bass and loving it.
If you can play jazz, you can play anything. Chord building, substitution and inversions are difficult for 3 chord queens. Actually learning structure and being able to communicate with other musicians in real time is difficult.
When i think about jazz sucking it comes down to a few things, soloing wind instruments, that includes Charle Parker, Miles, Wayne Shorter etc, long extended solos of any kind, that the music is far outdated and suffers cultural & aesthetic problem, its close relation to Klezmer. I can tolerate some of it when there are no wind instruments, ideally just drums, bass and electronic keyboards with no extended solos.
If you're having this problem 5:34 Please, do take a 220 or 320 sandpaper and put the paper between your fretting hand and back of the neck and just wipe up and down (do not squeeze too hard, just hold it gently against the lacquer) two or three times. Check, and wipe a few more times if it is not perfect/didn't cover the whole neck. It will thin the lacquer only theoretically but your hands will not stick anymore. Neck stays smooth for ages
I had a similar experience sitting in a jazz band at school. There were four saxophones. If one of them skipped a note it would have been hard to spot, except for the director. If I made a mistake everybody in the house would look at me like "ah, you made a mistake". I realized that there was nobody else on bass and nobody else on the root of the chords. This put a lot of pressure.
A musician friend of mine said a jazz solo was someone getting off with their instrument, but on stage where everyone was forced to watch. I get the distastefulness towards jazz, completely, but - as an example - without opera, classical music wouldn't have gone the way it did. Jazz changed the face of music, for better or worse.
