In this brief video I expose the substandard nailing practice of almost every roofer out there installing comp shingles today & why it’s important to slow down & nail on the manufacturer’s nailing pattern line.
Henry Fehr So many roofers assume that hitting the nail line is optional, but nothing could be further from the truth. Many - & I mean 9 out of 10 or more believe me being emphatic about this is way overboard on quality & entirely unnecessary. But those roofers either don’t have the experience to know better or couldn’t care less about the customer. I’m glad you do! Thanks for watching!
Exactly. I love the SPEED aspect of roofing and nailing to look good and cool BUT that don't make for quality and assurance. Sure I see some who are real quick and remain on the line like required BUT there are a ton of those who go super fast who don't keep it in the path they're required. I'd rather be a fraction slower BUT know that the job will be clean, safe and issue free...
I just installed 3 bundles for a neighbor. The brand she bought had two lines and almost 1.5" of nail zone. I read the instructions on the package and thought they had solved many problems in their design. The previous shingles that the wind removed were all nailed high. I couldn't even pull nails without tearing through the old shingles. I am enjoying all of the videos that good roofers put out, I'm always learning. I am also learning all the mistakes I made on the very first roof I ever did about 5 years ago. Mistakes I won't make again thanks to good quality videos like this one.
THANK YOU! I had just finished watching a video that wanted me to nail into the tar strip and use the nail line to line up the shingle. You explained this SO WELL that I am sold on where, how and why.
That's where I always nail the asphalt shingles.Always. It's the thickest place, so there's way more holding power. Thank you for making a video on it. I can't wait to show a few guys. No one listens when I explain it to them. Even when I showed the illustration on the wrapping! Cognitive dissonance anyone? I tell my coworkers, but they rarely listen. Either way, mine are done correctly. Stupid guys nailing super fast, blowing through, and losing the integrity of the product! Drives me nuts. The work is shoddy when nailed too high. Great video. You are 💯 percent correct. Wish more folks had high standards, like you. I've worked with people that think they"are the best" on all aspects of roofing. Most"best roofers on the planet" likely never once sat down and took the time to read the f***ing instructions. Thanks again
Howdulike Themapples I’m happy to know there are other roofers out there who care about craftsmanship & know how to achieve it. It also helps to be willing to listen to others & consider their advice, even if we have experience. One of the greatest liabilities of having experience is pride. Only when pride is avoided can experience can pay high dividends. Thanks for watching!
Nailing to high is better then nailing to low. If you nail to high, you can pull that shingle, and put a new one down, if you nail to low, your nailing into the row below and that's an issue.
@@MrThedocholiday Thats Hilarious coming from someone who said "It also helps to be willing to listen to other & consider their advice, even if we have advice". So obviously you talk out your A$$, and don't mean a word of what you say. So Scroll on, you should have NO response. #Ignorance!
By the way... the last course of shingle on this roof was installed because I planned to use a narrow ridgecap which would not have covered the ridge properly had I not installed the final short course of shingles across the ridge.
Thank you for the education. I had the same experience with a bunch of idiots that couldn't do anything right but the cheap labor saved that company money. Still finding stuff wrong after 8 months. I worry that the shingles will start blowing off. Don't know why but they already look wavy and the truss lines are showing. Never had any problems with the original shingles that were there 26 years except a couple blew off. It was a massive 12/12 roof. Seems like almost everybody is a crook these days. It's sickening.
Third Eye You couldn’t be more correct. Imagine if you can though, not just having one bad experience that resulted in multiple deficiencies on your roof, but having done thousands of quality control roofing inspections, having worked customer service for over 3 years, having worked side by side with other roofers for over 30 years, having acquired your own 1500+ customers that you acquired for 20 of those 30+ years & listening to how your own customers had been previously taken advantage of before you came along & last but not least having fixed thousands of other roofers mistakes while working for your own customers as a licensed contractor, & you can begin to see what informs my experience & my attitude about bad craftsmanship in the roofing industry. Most people watching my videos don’t realize I have all that experience but that doesn’t change the fact. I have seen more bad work by soggy wanna be roofers over the last 32 years that it’s left me a bit bitter, because almost nobody in the roofing industry today cares enough about the customer to do anything except brag about how great they are while continuing to do crappy work. I’m sorry to hear that you were disappointed by my fellow competitors.
@@MrThedocholiday Thanks for you reply. There are many things wrong with this roofing job here that I didn't even mention. It's not just roofing. It's everything you hire somebody to do. If at all possible I stand right there and watch everything they do and have even caught them lying while I'm right there watching them. If it's on an upper level, good luck if you can't see it. When I was at Lowes someone told me that there were some young guys in there buying stuff and bragging about how they were taking old people's money, not doing what they paid them to do and ripping them off. (how sad) I was told that there are alot of people complaining about rip offs. Rip me off and I'll tell everybody in town what you did "forever" is what I tell them. I've noticed that you can never get the worst ones to come back and they won't return the call. Even some of the high profile companies are using very inexperienced labor. Some of these construction workers are either going into prison or coming out of prison I try to do as much as I can myself and if I hire it out, I have to take a crash course in everything I have done and every product I buy. I don't care if it costs more, I want it done right, a quality product and peace of mind so can move on and get other things done instead of paying again to have it fixed. You, my friend, are a great blessing to people who need this valuable information so we know what to look for. We need so many more of you. Keep up the good work. Beautiful job. Wish you could have done my roof. Shine a spotlight on the cockroaches
Are you in Southern California? I need a roof repair and by watching some of your videos. You sound very knowledgeable and affordable. Any chance I can get your info?
Awesome Dan, Thank you!! Now what do I do about the new roof I had installed two years ago that hit rapid fire and above the nail line? I also have 8 more rental houses that will need new roofs soon. This will be a discussion before job is awarded. But again, do I have the company re-roof what they just did? I'm in Florida. Roofers are advertising everywhere here. I found this video because I was searching for comp nailing patters as I am currently fixing a roof where some shingles blew off. This is not the 2 year old roof I mentioned above. All the nails were above the nail line and in the tar strip. The flaps could lift a little and the wind took advantage. Repair sure is fun in 95 degrees.
What you need to do with the already installed roof, depends on what type of shingles it has. You mentioned they nailed in the tar strip. That implies a type of 3 tab shingles rather than laminated architectural type. 3 tab shingles aren’t very wind resistant in the first place & having them redo the roof wouldn’t necessarily help them stay on the roof in high winds because each shingle is only one layer thick & more susceptible to wind damage regardless of where the nails are placed. However, the laminated architectural type shingles, like in my video here, benefit highly from having the nails exactly where they belong, because the nails will be going through both layers of each laminated portion of each shingle. So in your area where you experience high winds often, if I were you, I would only have architectural shingles installed on any & all my roofs with the roofing company paying close attention to installing all the nails on the manufacturer’s nail line. If you do this, your roof will be the only perfect roof in the neighborhood after every storm, with very few exceptions. If your shingles ARE the laminated architectural type & they installed the nails wrong, I would certainly have them back to re-roof it & nail it properly. But as I previously stated, 3 tab shingles only need to have the nails installed so that they penetrate through the shingles where each nail holds a single layer of two separate shingles at once where they overlap each other. Does that make sense?
I'm curious as to why the manufacturers don't make a special tile for the peak so that both sides are double thick instead of one side (the top edge) being one thickness and the other being the double thickness? Any ideas about that?
What is the proper amount of exposure of the shingles from row to row? Don't comp shingles have smaller exposure requirements than standard 3 tab? Also, how many nails and where do you put them? Thanks
Proper exposure on all comp shingles is about the same, with very few exceptions. With 3 tab you should be following the top of the water keysways across the tops of those keyways with each subsequent course above. I think the actual measurement is 5-5/8” but it’s printed on the outside of every shingle package so read & follow their instructions. So that’s where each shingle aligns. The number of nails per shingle are also recommended on the outside of every shingle package. Typically, it’s 4-6 nails per shingle, depending on the application. The nails always go on the manufacturer’s nail line without exception. That’s why they put it there. This should provide enough overlap of all subsequent shingles to cover all nails installed & keep all shingles watertight for the life of the shingles. Dimensional comp is similar, but all subsequent shingles being installed over the first shingle should align the bottom edge of subsequent shingles with the middle-step laminated bottom edge of the shingle below. There is a laminated portion of each dimensional shingle in the very middle of each shingle running horizontally across each shingle. The bottom edge of the upper portion of that laminated shingle is where you match the alignment with the very bottom of the next shingle above it. Never stretch the course above to the manufacturer’s nail line which is painted onto each shingle, or you will breach the manufacturer’s warranty & subject your roof to potential future leaks. As previously mentioned, there are clear installation instructions on very package. Unfortunately, few people read those instructions despite the fact that they have picture illustrations included. Under no circumstances can you get away with not following those instructions without breaching the warranty, however, there are quite a few roofing installation hacks that can be done without causing any trouble for your roof except breaching the warranty technically. Some hacks are inconsequential to the performance of the roof & very practical while not being technically correct & others are absolute no-no’s that if the manufacturer ever comes out to investigate premature failure of their shingles, they will laugh at you if you expect them to cover those hacks. Stretching courses & not nailing on the manufacturer’s nail line are two of those absolute no-no’s. The next no-no’s in line are installing shingles below 3.5/12 pitch & narrowing the side lap on shingles below obvious minimal recommendations. Many people install comp shingles on 1.5/12 to 3/12 pitch porch roofs & wonder why they are leaking after 5-10 years. Shingle are not intended for low pitch applications under any circumstances. As far as side lap hacks go, the only time the manufacturers will not cover side lap discrepancies, is if those discrepancies are extremely obvious - like 2”-3” side lap when manufacturers call for 5.5” side lap. So 4”-5” side lap installation of shingle, while not technically correct, will never likely cause any problem & not be flagged by a manufacturer’s investigation of premature roof failure unless that failure is somehow obviously related to a side lap issue. In all my 30+ years of doing thousands of installations & repairs I’ve very rarely ever seen a reasonable side lap hack 4”-5” cause leaking issues, unless of course the shingles are installed on a low pitch application. But the fact of the matter is that no amount of side lap length will suffice to keep shingles water tight under low pitch applications no matter how long you make those side laps overlap. So in every case I would advise following the manufacturer’s recommendations, however, if you choose not to, you ought to understand why & what the risks are.
@@MrThedocholiday Thank you for a very through explanation. You went above and beyond anything I could have hoped for but I do have one question. Our roof is a 2/12 pitch and when the current roof was done (approx 15 years ago) they applied Ice and Water membrane to 100% of the roof 1st. The shingles are GAF Timberline architectural. Is the side lap you're referring to the amount cut off each subsequent beginning shingle when starting the next row? Thanks again @Duster Dan.
@@MrThedocholiday yeah did the best I could think of after several tries and that meant taking it off and redoing it several times . It was further complicated by a valley at about same point . So I had two ridges coming into a T intersection plus a valley with tin roll of about 10 1/2 in wide which I covered up overlapping one side over the other . Time will tell if there are no leaks . If in doubt I put cement on it . We'll see
..do the lower ones first, then cap it when you get to the top...you may have to custom cut a piece of cap...it's handy to use cardboard for a template to try a few different looks with out wasting material.
I'm doing my own roof and the nail gun was doing a poor job setting the nails correctly, no amount of adjusting would give a consistent "just right" nail seating with the shingles. I got my hammer and now it's one nail at a time the old fashioned way. It may be slower but those shingles are going to stay put.
Old Roscoe I hear you... That IS a common problem. I have several name brand nail-guns, but only one of them will drive the nails right consistently. So when most contractors - & I do mean most - when most contractors experience that problem, they make adjustments & if the adjustments don’t work, they simply continue installing the shingles, because if they take the extra time & expense to solve the problem correctly, they’ll lose substantial income, or at least that’s what they think. Most contractors are not in the habit of problem solving while on the job & because of this, the customers suffer losses most of the time. Good on you for taking your time regardless, so YOUR roof stays put!
I agree with what you’re talking about 100% I hate machine gun nailers. I am wondering if your stagger is 6 inches or more.? Good looking roof though buddy keep up the good work
Drew's Roofing & Home Repair Thanks... 6” is about exactly what the stagger is. Also, after servicing & repairing literally thousands of leaks over 3 decades I’ve never seen a leak caused by the stagger being anywhere near six inches or more, unless of course the roof pitch is below the manufacturer’s minimum recommendation, but in that case I’ve seen no amount of stagger be sufficient. So basically, anything greater than about four inches on a standard pitch roof is a safe stagger, even though perhaps not optimal. I’ve had the benefit of troubleshooting leaks for decades. That’s informed how I do everything; right down to the very smallest detail. It also helps me know what’s NOT necessary as well as what IS necessary for quality work I could stand behind. Does that make sense? Thanks for watching...
Drew's Roofing & Home Repair Okay, so I want to throw a huge caveat on the front end of my comment here. If you’re only referring to the manufacturers recommendations & not referring to whether or not the shingles will keep water tight with less stagger then you’re absolutely correct, but the recommendation you’re referring to is based on what? 3.5/12 roof pitch, since all shingle manufacturers recommend no less than 3.5/12 roof pitch for their shingles. Therefore as a matter of liability they give recommendations to the industry that keep them out of litigation liabilities. And they base those recommendations on the absolute minimum of what the shingles can practically perform at. But if you increase that roof pitch you can decrease that minimum stagger & still achieve the same waterproof results. Roof pitch is everything when it comes to stagger pattern & I prefer to think practically instead of theoretically like the manufacturers do who right the warranties & give recommendations according to those warranties. You seem to have missed my previous comment about having over three decades of experience chasing down leaks on literally thousands of roofs having informed my installation practices. I am not saying that anyone should dismiss manufacturers recommendations, especially not for a customer, since you wouldn’t want to void their warranty. But I am speaking practically since I thought that was the context of your question. Regardless of manufacturers recommendations, comp shingles will not leak because of a stagger pattern below 6” unless the stagger is significantly narrower, the roof pitch is near the ragged minimum of 3.5/12 or lumpy in ways that create water ponding or something else is amiss. That’s just reality despite theory or manufacturers recommendations.
I began stripping the old 32 year old 3 tab asphalt shingles off my roof today, and I noticed how the old 3/4" board sheathing isn't holding nails so well. The house is 100 years old. Most of the wood seems good, it's just that it's old wood and it seems like it just doesn't hold nails well, like new wood does. When I grabbed shingles during tear off, it seemed like the sealing of the asphalt line on the underside of the shingles held more than the roofing nails did. I used 1" nails last time allowing for 1/4" for shingles, assuming I would be going all the way into the 3/4" sheathing...Good enough. However, I now want to re-nail the roof sheathing. I was even considering if I could get 2 1/2" long roofing nails so I could nail into the rafters at each opportunity. (16" OC) So I am here looking at nailing patterns for Architectural shingles which I will be using this time. If I step them as shown here, I assume I only need to stay away from the 6" area at the end of the shingle where the next row's joint will be. Anywhere else seems to be fair game. Maybe I could use those 1" plastic washer things along with a very long roofing nail for whenever I get to a rafter that could be clearly marked out on the underlayment. I guess I just want my roof to be the one that has the shingles still on, should a tornado come to town.
Don’t use the plastic cap nails for shingles. Do try to use longer nails wherever they’ll penetrate into the framing itself if you like. You should be using weather resistant roofing nails that are long enough to penetrate all the way through the roof sheathing at least 1/4” throughout the roof. You are correct about staying away from the side lap seams with the nails to keep side seams as water tight as possible. Also, realize that all the nails used work together to hold the shingles in place, so proper placement is key as much as the total number of fasteners is key. Think of holding power as a mathematic formula. If a nail properly placed increases holding power by 30 percent, now multiply that increase exponentially every time you add another nail where it holds the shingles best. And, remember that the more accurately the nails are placed, the more each nail will hold more of the adjacent shingles because of how they’re overlapped. Lastly, make sure the nails are going in as straight as possible. Nails driven straight have much more holding power than nails driven crooked, because the nail hole through the sheathing is much tighter around the nail shank. Most roofing nail guns do NOT drive the nails straight. Many manufacturers design solutions for this into their nail guns & some do better than others, but due to the nature of roofing nails having a large head, they tend to tumble coming out of the gun & this problem needs monitored by the roofer & minimized as much as possible.
Im shingling my roof now with architectural style just like yours in the video. I couldnt agree more about the speed and sloppyness of most roofers, and that line is not easy to hit. BUT...I'd rather be above that line than below. I try to just kiss the top of the line because if you kiss the bottom its an exposed nail. IMO that nail line is a lower limit and the common bond line is the upper limit. Unfortunately the nail line is not the middle of where I want the nail to go. This is not per the manufacturer but I just cant imagine they would spec exposed nails.
You’re absolutely correct! Even their new hdz shingles claim a taller nail pattern spec, but when I looked on the underside of the shingle they hadn’t changed the fact that nailing higher won’t penetrate through the bottom portion of their laminated shingle, which based on my experience is critical. So they supposedly improved the lamination bonding between the upper & lower portions of their shingles instead of making the overlap of the two portions larger. So if you take their advice & nail higher through the single layer upper portion of the supposedly ‘better’ bonded shingle, you’re relying entirely upon the lamination of the shingle to hold fast the lower portion in the summer heat. I just don’t buy it because I’ve seen too many laminated shingles come apart in the sun when they’re nailed through the upper single thickness, high above the middle double thickness of the shingle. Add to that the fact that nailing through both layers across the middle significantly improves wind resistance as well. I aim exactly for the same area as you. I try to always kiss the shingles just above the nail line. The double thickness portion of the shingle is only 3/4” tall. So if you keep the nails within a hair’s breath above the nail line you should always have both layers nailed with no exposed nails. Your observation is solid. I wish more people paid attention like yourself. It would likely save billions of dollars throughout the industry over the years. However, the manufacturers probably wouldn’t much appreciate better labor practices, so their shingles actually do last longer, now would they?
Wallace Grommet There are multiple options for venting besides ridge vent. I chose a solar exhaust fan near the ridge with under eave intake vents galore.
Can you show use how fast one put them in, I have a 3 man crew, 2 of us nailing, one guy feeding us,we sound like "rapid fire machine guns" but sound does echo, two guys can sound like four, also with someone feeding you shingles you don't have to move very far. I can't put 4 nails in a shingle, with-in a 3/4 space all day, have I missed, yes, simply yank that shingle and put dow a new one. Would like to see what you refer to as Rapid Fire roofing guns tho.
My experience of this issue has three main components to it… 1. Doing reroofs & repairs on other people’s work over the last 34 years. So I get a first hand look at their nailing patterns & the issues they cause for the customer. 2. I’ve done literally thousands of roofing inspections during that time period. 3. Paying attention when other people install shingles in the neighborhoods & doing follow up inspections after the fact, only to find the same exact results of their bad labor practices. The whole point of my message is to hit the nail line for the customer. If you’re doing that, then who cares what speed you’re going? The other point is that so few people actually DO hit the nail line, that it’s a major problem for the customer that’s very common. Look, don’t feel bad… this isn’t just a roofing issue. This labor quality depression we’re in goes across every construction trade out there. And raising awareness about bad labor practices is super easy to point out nowa days, because we don’t have to look very far for bad labor practices. It’s that simple.
@@MrThedocholiday Thats Fair, and I agree with 99% of what you said, 100% is a stretch for ANYTHING. LoL. I was saying on a different video, I am what in this town is called a "GC". Because we have no unions, and being a Craftman makes you a GC here. I have 1 guy I can count on, I have to pay him above his pay scale "In my opinion", but he shows up everyday, and I can leave him alone, with SOME things. My Laborer who has been with me for a Year, is eager to learn and the best one I have had in the last 10 years. The one before him, could not connect his line on a 2/12 using his Speed square. Don't ask me how, but I had to buy him a 12" one, he quit the next day, said I insulted him. Oh Well, that's how you learn. Nice Chatting, Stay Safe. And pray the prices of materials come down. Lol
My main point in this video is NOT that we have to go by the book - even though that’s not bad advice. My point was that speed nailing the shingles almost always not only voids the warranty, it also results in expensive repairs down the road because of the reasons I gave. On the other hand, having a 4” stagger on a standard pitch roof like this one - which happens to be my own roof - has never in my 30+ years of professional roofing resulted in expensive repairs down the road. I’m sorry you missed my practical point in the video & thought I was just carried away with the rule book. Even when I went back to repair my competitor’s mistakes, a 4” stagger was never the cause of any issues. I’ve literally done thousands of roofing repairs during my career. I know what causes problems & what doesn’t. And now the customer knows too.
I was up on my roof yesterday, doing some shingle repair, I heard in the distance around my neighborhood, this machine gun nailers going off. I was thinking to myself there's no way in hell those shingles are going to be nailed right. You know it's all about getting the job done as fast as possible, to make as much money as possible. To many half ass contractor's out there, doing shoddy work.
I’ve seen it throughout the construction industry for over 35 years, so I know what you’re saying. What’s funny is when people want to argue about the fact & defend their shoddy practices. In most cases I just don’t think they see how their work habits suck. So for that reason I feel sorry for them, but when someone points it out, you’d think they’d at least consider the fact.
I doubt it. I’ve shot various types & brands of nail guns for three decades & every type of firearms as well. I know how hard it is to shoot fast when the gun is bouncing off the shingles at high speed. Not only that but the nails often drive at different depths depending on what’s beneath them. I’ve always gone as fast as I could & still be accurate. Sounds like you do also.
I've been roofing for 20 years, and I make that nail line my bitch everyday. I can lay 15 bundles an hour. And your more than welcome to check my nail pattern, and placement everyday!!!
Sounds like an advertising pitch for your customers. Let me know how many customers tell you that they signed your contracts because you “make that nail line your bit👀h”.
Let me say this. Got 2 ply of shingle that stop at the bond line or 1/2 inch whatever. Why not just 2 ply it to stop at the top at the below shingle? Nevermind I know why
Nicholas B You’re right about the nails blowing through... either through the shingles or just shy of being flush with shingle surface like they need to be, if they lower the nail depth to compensate. I’ve shot a lot of nail guns in my day & know how hard it is to be accurate at every speed. Even more so than other types of guns, nail guns are extremely difficult to shoot accurately because of recoil & material surface hardness inconsistencies. So they require a lot of concentration & tempo to stay on target. Add to that the natural arc of your arm as it comes across the shingle while nailing & there’s a very natural bow shaped pattern to the nails being laid down as opposed to straight across the nail line. Thanks for watching...
@@MrThedocholiday Excellent sir, right when you talked about those rapid fires I completely understood where you were going, and I totally agree. Keep up the great videos.
Aaren Colwell Alright, malarkey is the first manufacturer I’m aware of to make a wider nail zone of 1-5/16”. That’s still only about a half inch wider. But this is new product, not the shingles I was referring to in my video. All manufacturers have been making the narrow nail line for the last 20+ years. Those are the ones that local inland empire roofers have been nailing super fast on & no doubt missing the nail line. I know this because literally 9 out of 10 shingle repairs I’ve done over the last 30 years, had the nails nowhere near the nail line when I took them apart to do the repairs.
Just because you hear a nail gun doesn't mean they are using these shingles..ever hear of nail strip? why don't you use a better brand with a wider nail area?...p.s. are those the new roofing rings? you got 3 on each hand(6 total) do those ever get scratched?
Darryl Taylor Yes, the rings scratch, but I don’t care. I like em, so I wear em. I found two of them metal detecting & each ring has a special meaning to me. As far as the shingles go, all the different brands of shingles have the same narrow band for where the nails belong.
..everyone is a little different, I'm just not a big ring guy especially if they don't fit, then roofing with them on seems odd to me, but I may be odd to others, it's all good ..I do enjoy metal detecting, you should ask some homeowners to metal detect by the doors for coins, outside faucets for rings...I was thinking that nail strip that shows you where to nail and prevent nails from blowing through..I think it's called "sure nail"..on owens corning shingles...but you are right most shingles are about 3/4"
I’ve been roofing over 34 years & it’s not easy. I’d bet hard cash that one in a hundred roofers hit the nail line with all 4-6 fasteners. I’ve already inspected thousands of roofs personally so I’ve seen a lot of work.
The problem is there are too many inexperienced & hard headed roofers who have differing views on what the ‘right’ way is. Add to that the local codes that change roofing requirements depending on jurisdiction & your have a lot of confusion. Biggest problem I see with anything these days is that people can’t think for themselves. They never ask what, how, when, why, under what circumstances is something right, wrong or otherwise. Fact of the matter is, that no rules can serve every scenario & you have to be able to think on your feet if you want to solve problems for the customer & build a good reputation. But most people today can’t see the value of alternative perspectives, so they don’t know how to learn from others & master their craft. Short answer… I don’t know anyone in Florida. Sorry. ☹️
some workers dont know, dont care, dope up on alcohol get trigger happy,plus manufacturers mistake disinfected single made crooked, or tar line off or to many granules in the wrong location, it use to be centered, in between the adhesive line 7 nails - 8 ,9 shingles , shingles have shrunk now is 5-7
Yes they care and they also want roofers off the job quick not 2 -3 days slow is good but fast quality work is always better hit the nail line every time..
I’m assuming you’re referring to local codes where you live? Or maybe a particularly rare instance where the manufacturer’s instructions are an exception rather than the rule in the region of the country where I passed my contractors trade test with a near perfect score 25 years ago? And that after 10 years of being a journeyman roofer? You’re really gonna critique my nailing like you are? There are issues with my nail pattern but this isn’t one of them & I’ve changed some recommendations along the way after 30+ years of professional roofing because experience says my way actually works better than the recommendation. But I digress… bottom line is the distance of my nails from shingle ends is exactly what manufacturers & local code trades commission require in order to license my sorry carcass 23 years prior to making this video.
David Lysohirka yes... but very few practice it. Go back & check their work & see for yourself. If your crew does their nail patterns spot on then your crew is the exception, despite this being common knowledge & you know what I’m sayin is true. I’ve literally inspected thousands of roofs personally & repaired almost as many as I’ve inspected so...
Yes, I am presently suffering the after effects of effing incompetent w***Ker roofers. Shingles mis-nailed, no step flashing; apparently they thought a tube full of silicone would do the job. Can't trust anyone to do a decent job. Unfortunately it was done before I bought the house so I've no comeback :(
Sorry for your loss friend. Your loss is why I uploaded this & other roofing videos. It’s just wrong to serve the community with substandard labor. And to think about what a rash I receive from many wannabe roofers because I bring issues like this to attention of the public. They never did like me on their jobs when I rolled up to inspect their work. But they sure pretended to be nice to me at the time, because as their in-house inspector, I was authorized by the boss to pass or fail their work. Nothing has changed in the last 25 years, but now the internet has raised public awareness & together we might be able to change things. Thanks for your comment.
I swear to you I am nailing the nails on the nail line lol. Some dumbasses just don’t care and go above sometimes but if you “powpowpowpowpowpow” it doesn’t always me your not hitting the line lol
Ferny Romero I’ve shot everything from roofing nailers to framing nailers to 9mm’s to 460 Rowland’s to 30-30 to 308 rifles & nobody I’ve ever met can rapid fire anything & hit the target every time. But every time IS the manufacturers standard. Roofers are certainly not the accuracy/quality oriented types not to mention that I’ve repaired thousands of comp shingles & found inaccurate shots on 99% of all shingles inspected. I’ve worked side by side with hundreds of them for over 3 decades. I’m sorry but you are mistaken.
Duster Dan we can’t really compare this to weapons now lol, we aren’t shooting nails in a distance really lol, I understand what you mean, but look at the end of the day it’s all about who’s nailing down the shingles, it’s either those that care or that don’t care
David Lysohirka You’re probably right, but this was my own roof & I wasn’t teaching people how to stagger their seams in this video. I was teaching them about why nail pattern is so important.
Travis Johnston No, you simply cannot. I’ve roofed over 30 years myself, done quality control for other excellent companies & ran my own successful roofing business in Cali for 20 years & I’ve literally checked thousands of other people’s roofing work & it is literally impossible to be accurate at the speed that most roofers work. Guess you didn’t know my credentials when you decided to argue with me. So sorry 🙁... but thanks for the opportunity to brag a little. And yes, it’s a problem & quality craftsmanship is not happening today.
@@tylerlacasse5756 Then why aren’t they? Tell me why every single roof out there that gets installed like I describe in this video has the nails in the wrong place? Explain that to me please... You don’t seem to understand that I’m not exaggerating when I say I’ve inspected thousands of roofs personally. Not to mention the fact that I’ve been installing comp shingles myself for 30+ years. The roofer has the ability, but the material & the nail guns today cause followup shots to be off target no matter how skilled the roofer, because of the arc shaped curve of the roofers arm as it passes across the shingle & because the granulated surface of the shingles causes unpredictable sideways nail gun bounce. All top of the line nail guns are effected by these physics & slowing down a bit is the only real cure for this problem. This isn’t hypothetical. It’s reality & arguing with reality may get you likes, but you’re still ignorant regardless. So go make your own video & prove your premise by nailing fast & hitting the nail line & stop trolling my video where I’m trying to raise awareness of this problem for the customers.
You’re mistaken... I’m not saying that nobody in this world can hit the nail line when going that fast. I’m saying nobody does. And I’ve inspected literally thousands of roofs worked on by other roofers & I’ve witnessed their work first hand. You obviously don’t know my background or you wouldn’t have defended this ridiculous practice & made yourself out to be ignorant with an argument that is true, but false in it’s context.
I am all about quality, but you also know going over old paper and manufacturers specs on nails in the underlayment void warranty as well. And the manufacturer wouldn’t warranty that roof. I’m not poppin off every 2 seconds but speed and quality have to intersect to make money. I’d advise reading up on ALL manufacturing specs for warranty before sharing a video of a roof they wouldn’t warranty.
That’s not old paper. What are you talking about. It’s brand new 30lb. And what’s wrong with the felt nails? They’re new as well & probably over nailed. You really ought to find out what’s up before making assumptions yourself. I don’t know why people insist on criticizing me based on the letter of the law when my concern is practical functionality as number one & manu warranty as a secondary concern. Roofers are screwing the consumers & y’all want to shoot the messenger. Real smart. And, by the way, the roof in the video is my own roof, not a customer’s roof.
and if you put a nail on that line, you will be replacing a rotted roof nails have to go to the top of the tar line or wind will blow water under the shingle and go through where the nail is everytime
chris owens The nails are weather resistant just for that reason & the wind can’t blow where it has no flow. If the shingles are sealed down properly, the water running down over the bottom edge of the shingles will prevent water from running uphill under the shingles. So no, it won’t happen every time, unless of course your roof pitch is near or below manufacturers recommendations for roof pitch minimums. So how long have you been roofing & troubleshooting leaks? I’ve been doing it over 30 years now. That’s why I posted the video with confidence. Put the nails where the manufacturer recommends them or I’ll be telling the customer & calling code enforcement on your next job... If I knew where you work that is.
ImNotGood15 AKA.NotGood There are no tar lines on these shingles. That would be 3 tab you’re referring to. On architectural shingles they print a nail line instead. Thanks for watching.
@@MrThedocholiday actually you are wrong, on this specific brand it may not have a definite tarline but, most of these shingles do. This brand has the line on this under side of shingle. A lot of the archetectural shingles have it above the nail line. Rule applies to any shingle, under the tarline is where the double is and it will catch the shingle under it as well.
Why or why not? The biggest problem with people who have standards or rules is not having legitimate reasons for those rules. You’re free to hire whoever you want, but commenting here implies that you’re attempting to influence the culture to adopt your standards. Otherwise you’d have kept it to yourself. So if you’re gonna attempt to influence the culture to adopt your standards, you should have legitimate reasons for those standards rather than arbitrary biases… like only hand nailing can achieve acceptable results. I do agree that the temptation is high to be careless as soon as you put a nail gun in the roofer’s hand, but I’ve personally reroofed hundreds of houses entirely on my own with mail guns & achieved the standards to uphold not only the manufacturer’s warranty but also my own warranty to my customers. But in order to do so, I had to slow down a bit & be meticulous in my efforts; even after decades of experience nailing shingles.
@@MrThedocholiday I won't need to be as concerned about speed nailing, or nails not being in the nailing zone. There are several roofers in my area that hand nail only and advertise it. Several new houses were built behind me in a new sub division and it sounded like the Mexican roofers were rapid firing semi auto hand guns. I could also see them from my home. I get the convenience and time saved using a nail gun and not swinging a hammer. I agree that if nailing at a slow enough pace with a gun to put the nail in the zone and with proper spacing is acceptable, as long as any nail is finished with a hammer to flush it of course. If I were in the business I would offer customers either method. If they had no preference, then I would decide. I'm not questioning your work ethics or the quality of your work. You have a right to make decisions for your business. This is America. If all roofers decided to never hand nail again and use a gun, so be it. Customers would have to accept it. How many residential and commercial customers would attempt a DIY on a new roof install ? You and all business owners and employees in trade careers deserve to be appreciated. It's hard labor and we need your services. However, when choices are offered in materials and/or labor methods, the person doing the paying, has a right to do some saying.
1 roof warranty is bought as good as tp I done it as long as this guy why do they want nails there not so much a big deal on low pitch roof but 8 9 or 12/12 pitch the tar let's go an the bottom part falls off. the top shingle. aka dragon teeth is just glued to bottom base. so miss nail line an you got trouble. lol code inforcment some guy with no clue about anything lol
larry Bak So you haven’t seen shingles delaminate on standard pitch roofs in the summer heat when nails don’t go through both layers? It happens often on steep roofs but I’ve seen it happen hundreds of times on standard pitch roofs also. That’s why I brought it up in my video; that & high winds easily rip off the shingles when they’re not nailed on the line.
I live near Biloxi Mississippi not ever on a 4 or 5. but on 8 an on up I seen 10footx 10 foot section slide off when you nail to high the nails tend to set to deep. I had one that was 4/12 they over exposed it by a inch an nailed high they flopped off with a stiff breeze. look at my videos. we picked up 20 square in half a hour. but here on coast it gets 90s an 100s for days on end I seen more of the tar on dragon teeth Let go an from nails being high the base falls off
but be honest with people a roof warranty is like tp paper. they come out you under vented or tree to close to roof or like you said not nailed right an that's just one nail they need to find to void it they always find something. its like any warranty its all wrote by there lawyers to save there ass. I don't care if you pay 100 bucks a bundle for shingles that will last 100 years promise they will not want 100 year roof buy slate or taracotta or something like that
I stopped hiring helpers, because they keep telling me what their hack former employers used to do. Rapid fire roofing all high nails lol. Dumb people. Quality>Quantity Nice nails btw.
The last course depends on the width of the ridge cap. And, if the ridge trim cap ever blows off, the shingles will keep the ridge water tight without it. It’s a safeguard.
30 yrs experience lol then you should know hand nails have no bite 15 yrs experience and I’ve fixed numerous hand nailing jobs and maybe I’ll be fixing yours next lol.
You made an entire video explaining how you still have misconceptions after 30 years of experience. You actually went as far as calling other roofers corrupt when you're just mistaken. The low or fine double nail line is the nail line for slopes exceeding 21:12. Any slope from 2:12 to 21:12 can be nailed on the wide line. Since 21:12 is basically an A-frame, you are very unlikely to ever encounter a roof that needs to be nailed on the low double line. So there's nothing wrong about pop pop pop pop roofing. This is just a mental concoction intended to make yourself feel better about how much slower you are than other roofers. It's Because they're doing a bad job and you're doing a much better job right? It's sad honestly. Considering all a person has to do to acquire this information is read a bundle of shingles.
Eyeslo 420 it didn’t take but five minutes on RU-vid to confirm my assertions straight from GAF. Maybe you’re referring to 3 tab, cause if you don’t go through both layers on every laminated architectural non-3 tab shingle, you will void the manufacturers warranty. And since I was installing laminated architectural shingles in the video, it’s kinda a given that’s what I was talking about. You can go troll somewhere else.
@@eyeslo4206 I just read my GAF Timberline HD SR shingle wrapper, and it states, "These shingles MUST be nailed a nominal 6" (152mm) from bottom of shingle, above the cutouts, as shown." Below that is a diagram of the shingles, showing the "Nail guide line", and annotating that line as 5-3/4"-6-1/4" (146mm-159mm). Nothing about 21:12 slope. The instructions do, elsewhere, mention that for 21:12 slope and above you must manually seal the shingles instead of relying on the self-sealing strip. According to the manufacturer's installation videos, it's a very common mistake to nail high - probably the MOST common mistake.
It must be the manufacturer recommendation for your east coast shingles. We dont use GAF over on the west coast. Sounds like GAF knows that their shingles will slide apart if not nailed precisely because they can't spare a half inch more material to bring the second layer up the nail line.
use owens corning and you can bap bap bap bap all you want. depends what manufacture you go with. malarkey you can bap bap bap bap bap. he's right about timberline shingles and others that don't have a thick nail line. but before you judge your roofer do a little more research.
the shop You are mistaken... All the laminated shingles by differing manufacturers are made the same with a narrow nail line & you MUST land the nails through the double thick section across the middle of the shingles where the NARROW nail line is or you’ll void your warranty, and for good reason... nails tear through the single layer of shingles under stress of wind, heat or high slope/pitch applications. I wasn’t referring to cheap 3 tab shingles either. I was referring to architectural laminated shingles like the ones in my video that most homeowners have installed.
So u can’t nail fast and be good?? All it is is practice after doing it for so long u know where to nail and still be fast yeah u might get the odd nail that’s not perfect
There’s theory & there’s reality. The granulated shingles never kick the nail gun back the same way twice. Add to that the body mechanics of your arm in an arc shape as you nail across the shingle rather than straight like the nail line on the shingles. The nails never come out of the nail gun the same way twice either, despite manufacturers fabricating all sorts of solutions for the problem. This is why real guns twist the bullet to keep it from tumbling, unlike nail guns. Besides all this, you have a 3/4” thick line where you need to place those nails at full speed & you’re telling all of us that most knuckle dragging roofers care enough to make sure ALL these challenges are overcome by any ninja master roofer? Really? Boy do you live in rainbow, unicorn, balloon land. My knuckle dragging days taught me to slow down enough to hit the nail line, but in all my 30+ years of professional roofing, I never met anyone else who cared enough to hit the nail line. They’re out there, but they are a rare breed if they do.
@@MrThedocholiday u can be fast and do quality work we do it all the time passes inspection all the time and I’m not talking about a dumb home inspector ppl that are qualified, how u said it just comes off as a hater not saying you’re just what it sounded ,
20 years of what? Trying to hit that nail line? And what’s to motivate the typical roofer to even care about hitting it during that 20 years? Taking the time needed & make less money while doing so? You can brag about your experience until you’re blue in the face but we all know what excellence requires. Excellence requires sacrifice & you show me a roofer willing to make sacrifices in his time & pay & reputation that’s required to get good enough to hit that nail line at speed & I’ll show you someone who’s not willing to be a roofer anymore, because his level of character has exceeded the status quo of his craft in the industry. Why would someone be willing to be exceptional in their craft for average pay? Answer… they wouldn’t. And so they don’t learn or care to hit the nail line even after 20 years because the industry won’t pay them enough to make it worth their while. So don’t give us you’re superficial nonsense when somebody like me critiques the status quo, because you feel justified in your low standards of excellence.
And if you are concerned how about getting at manufacturers and ask them to stop putting installation procedure on packaging.....this would force proper hands on training and licensing. Then maybe everyone would not be a roofer to begin with
this is why i prefer going with a company that only hand nails their roofs.its a far better roof.machine guns are for the shooting range not on your roof
benzboston Hand nails have no bite where as the coil nails have wire which makes shingle more secure if you set the depth rite, and use the nailer properly I’ve repaired a lot of hand nailing jobs and looking at the job hand nails eventually pop off
Benzboston, always hand-nailed and never had a problem. Patrick Tanner, I've seen too many careless mistakes with nail-guns and I think the only time a gun should be used on a roof, is for nailing the deck.. With someone following behind with a hammer.
Get real, or pay $500 per square in labor. That comment sounds good, but unless Abraham showed up with his son Eli in his horse and buggy how many people have you actually hired that hand nailed a roof?
Theo Morgillo Hand nailing is over rated... Quality gun nailing can also be done, but one MUST care about craftsmanship & the customer regardless of which method is preferred.
Dani Suarez Why don’t you focus on yourself man? Why don’t you mind your own business? Ain’t so easy for you when you see or hear a perceived injustice is it? I’ve been in the roofing industry over 30 years, ran other people’s roofing businesses, ran my own roofing business 20 years, ran quality control & customer service departments for other companies before I crushed the competition with my own business. I know what I’m talking about because I’ve literally seen this a thousand times or more. So go troll somewhere else.
