Why Old Republic Jedi Were WAY More Powerful Than You Realize - Star Wars Explained 

Even 500, 1,000, 10,000 years ago if you put the average Jedi against the average Sith of their time period the Sith comes out on top 9/10.

I can't help but wonder how Jedi would defend themselves against sith magic or the illusions Darh Zannah could do

​@@A_Black_Sheep9490 percent of every fight comes down to spirit, sith who follow thier passions WANT the win more. Serenity is well and good with the blanket of experience. Without it spirit drives the battle and decides it.

​@@A_Black_Sheep94 that's because it's easier your not mastering your emotions your embracing them. Almost all creatures will find this easier to do than mastery over one self. Lucas describe the Dark side as a cancer it ends up eating you whole in the end the more you draw on it the more addictive it becomes. If you take a Jedi Master or Grandmaster and pair them up against a strong Sith Lord they will be equal if not stronger though. You could also say though that individually Sith are stronger as the Dark Side is concentrated in a few users, but the light side is more evenly distributed.

@Connor Dutton That's how he described the Sith in particular. You paid any Jedi vs any Sith and the Sith comes out on top 9/10 times and star wars history bears that out.

speaking of which when does the bleach tybw anime continue?

@James Cook 2nd cour is in july, 3rd cour winter 2023 and 4th cour in 2024

@@EWarr-ko3nf huh?

Nice to read a Bleach reference in the Star Wars universe 🙂

Might apply to post Cold War America! My America!

Kao Cen Darach is one of the most powerful Jedi Battlemaster, he was so powerful against both Darth Malgus and his Master Lord Vindican in the Outpost of Korriban, he did beaten Lord Vindican, but he was ultimately killed by Malgus in their lightsaber duel.

Malgus got lucky.

@@wtfamiactuallyright1823 I don’t think so. If you look closely, Darach was clearly fatigued once he took down Vindican, suggesting the Zabrak was around middle age in the trailer. Plus he just took part in a fight with two Sith at the same time. Even for an experienced fighter, combating multiple opponents can be very taxing. Furthermore, when Malgus unleashed his dual-blade assault against Darach, he was drawing on his rage to enhance himself and eventually broke through Darach’s defenses

@@darylsdesigns6679 Correct me if I'm wrong but, both were planned offensives too. This gave Malgus and co a HUGE advantage yet, he still had his work cut out for him, turn the tables and I'm not so sure Malgus would fair so well. I'm not saying that Malgus wasn't incredible but, lack preparation can make even the best fighters crumble when they're up against someone who has prepared. It's why surprise attacks often win out.

And that has no bearing on the topic of conversation. Read Darth Plagueis, there is actual proof of the Jedi being weakened during the beginning of the Clone Wars 👍 and don't tell us you read the book already or you wouldn't have made your comment. 🤦

Mike Tyson has said “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”

The reason the prequels era jedi and sith were so weak was because George Lucas didn't have the technology to do them right also Dave filoni and Disney don't understand the force how it works, and how powerful it's, the 2003 clone wars series did the jedi justice

Mace was referring to their ability to tell the future and other abilities of the sort, not combat wise.

@@podrickfookinpayne2329 combat wise they lost many abilities

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Such as? And in terms of 'strength' there's no reason to assume they lost any.

The phrase “peace breeds stagnation” comes to mind

No the yoda sparring is a rumor from a wii game so until there is evidence to say otherwise plo in canon was just a slightly above average jedi master

Yo guyz still a general, manz was the only Jedi of his era to ever use force lightning into a way that not only kept him from goin mod to the dark side but to incapacitate enemies n not kizzy dem like dem fools dookie our hideous

@@cole1nonly294 what the hell are you trying to say, I can't understand a word of what you just said

@@Blazeyblazeyblaze cool it, I’m sayin plo koons a guy out here💯

@@cole1nonly294 I mean he's OK, but like he couldn't defeat someone like dooku so in my eyes he's just a above average jedi master, people make him overrated

The Clone Wars Jedi (at least the masters) were better. As for the most battle-hardened, that goes to Luke's New Jedi Order.

@@austinkersey2445 depends on which version of Luke we're talking about. The expanded universe Grandmaster Luke is near force god levels, and Kyle Katarn is yet to be canonized. Disney Luke died of force projection.

@@b.msabol8551 This is Legends content, so I think we can kick Disney Canon to the curb on this one.

Legends ain’t real anymore, get over it.

@@90skidcultist He says on a Legends video. And, it is real. It just isn't viewed as legitimate by a corporation that cares little for the actual property itself. You can count the good things Disney and modern Lucasfilm have made with the Star Wars with the fingers on one or two hands. Which, considering how long they have had the license . . . is kinda sad.

It's a bullshit warmongering phrase

Like Donald Trump creating good times between 2017 and 2021

I think of this quote a lot with the world the way it is today.

@@NorthernNomad93 that just means you're a tactless boomer

That quote is basically astrology tier in terms of actually telling us anything about the world Most people just say the "strong men" are the political factions they support the most and the "weak men" are the political factions they don't like. It's driven by bias not understanding of history.

So if they were that weak then then assume modern day Jedi powers are like throwing a teeny pebble on to a ship hull that’s been reinforced 100 times with meteorite metal

@@sebastiangibson9671 More like throwing a grain of sand at a planet.

I don't take anything Kreia says about ancient Jedi or Sith at face value. Lmao she's talking like she saw the guy fight. It's just hype

@@game_boyd1644Then we can take what was said in the novels about the prequels as hype.

They could have defeated dooku, maul and vader but they dont stand a chance against sidious.

What if in compare to ancient Jedi Yoda in his prime was a medicore one?

SWTOR the true lore that Disney refuses to recognize as Star Wars canon

@@demonzone2571 yep, typical Disney 🙄

In some media they do. Like in The Old Republic game, there is a Jedi Knigh and a Jedi Consular class. And I think some others mention as well that like basically any society, Jedi also specialize. Makes sense that not many would specialize in dueling if noone has crossed paths with any Sith, or other single combatant that could match a Jedi in a thousand years. So most become ambassadors, scholars and advisors instead.

I believe in Legends Canon, after the final "defeat" of the Sith, the Republic Senate requested the Jedi to disband their armies, and Jedi Armor because the Sith had been destroyed. Also there were some in the Senate who were wortied that the Jedi could become a threat to the Republic if they maintained their army. So to keep the peace, the Jedi agreed.

@@phildicks4721 While you are right, there was a certain aspect of backstabbing implied in the whole series of events throughout the original expanded universe lore. In that the Jedi Lords who were morally righteous people leading planets and sectors of the republic for generations threatened the corporate interests of the core worlds. so when the majority of these jedi lords chose to sacrifice themselves for the good of the galaxy, and later Lord Farfala (cant remember if that is how to spell the name) died against Darth Bane, the jedi Lords faction lost the vast majority of its leadership and political power, whereas the Coruscant temple's main faction basically managed to take over the whole jedi order and rewrite their principles and way of life to being isolated monks that don't do anything to rock the boats of politicians (this happens around the time yoda is born and presumably joins the order). Now this was only implied, and never stated in the lore, it could just be like the exar kun situation where the brotherhood of darkness forming out of jedi, caused the majority of jedi after the brotherhood's fall to change their ways of life, but in a galaxy like star wars i dont see morally righteous people like the jedi lords willingly leaving their homewards (midrim/outer rim), knowing that their leaving will let things like piracy, slavery and corruption flourish after spending centuries fighting for their homes just to go to hide in a far off temple(Coruscant). So when looking at this realistically, ignoring our own metaknowledge and only taking what we know of the lore into account, its far more likely that there was a largescale though unofficial political coup within the order and the senate supported the faction that benefited themselves the most (aka the Coruscant jedi that wanted to collapse the Jedi lords and all jedi to become loyal Guard dogs/monks for the republic) with the lore showing they sucseeded in this and made sure that their version of the jedi completely took over (except in corellia) and they rewrote the jedi code and practices by teaching all younglings their new ways and how much more right their new ways are. Meanwhile the jedi lords faction which was implied to be outer rim/mid rim focused, had lost most of its resources and members during the 2000 years of on/off war and as such couldn't realistically challenge the core worlds any more. Moreover its implied that by the end, the army of light was made up mostly of volunteers after the many battles of Rousan Drained/killed the manpower of all the Jedi Lords holdings and militaries, thus resulting in the whole collapse of the jedi lords faction. Ironically those things also implied that most stories in the mid and outer rim of jedi were of the jedi Lords during those 2000 years where they were very active in improving the lives of people throughout the galaxy, whilst the majority of Yoda's jedi were more focused on politics and police actions around the core and Inner rim where the politics happened. So yea you are right on everything that you said but its nice to take the above factors into consideration Mind you this is just my take on the situation based on what I know of the lore and how i would interpret it if i had no metaknowledge. if we take metaknowledge the army needed to disband and jedi give up armor so they looked similar to the jedi in the movies. mind you i like to take a rather pessimistic view because i like looking at extremely dark undertones that never get answered in my fandoms.

Lol

You are both right and wrong at the same time. The prequel order did take everyone they could detect in, if they were infants or young children with few exeptions, so long as they could legally do so (some planets made it mandatory for children to be given away, some made it voluntary for the parents), however the amount of those children that were taken for knighthood was not 100%. Many of them were left at the initiate stage and then baisically thrown away to the agri corps or similar institutions to be "aides" for the true jedi order... without the chance to ever go up in the order hierarchy. Meanwhile depending on which era we are talking about, the older jedi order's all took any people that they could, including late bloomers, so long as the order had the ability to do so financially and thought that the initiates could make it as jedi. So on that front the whole number of available force user's for the older jedi order was larger, and had differing standards based on which academies the recruiters were from(because the jedi had many more temples in all previous eras). For example the jedi order as a whole during the last battle for Rusan were overall much weaker than prequel era jedi, even if the masters in the rusan era were far better than the prequels. We see this in the darth bane novels with people like Rain and Tomcat being thrown into the fight, and called jedi after mere months of training. Meanwhile in the old Republic era we had Master ven zallow tank being thrown through a concrete pillar several meters thick and continue fighting... meanwhile yoda gives up after a relatively small fall (for jedi masters who can fall from atmosphere if they try) or obi wan in episode 2 from literal minor burns from lightsaber touches on the shoulder and outer thigh.

That's a narrow minded point of view. Obi wan Kenobi had a very weak force connection, but he grew to become one of the most powerful, and skilled combatants in his era. Some will surprise you. Do you think any blade master that taught obi wan would ever think he'd be the greatest of all time

@@paytonwirtjes523 honestly i don't think so, the prequel era Jedi were kind of a joke in how restricted their knowledge was on force techniques and their member's relative prowess, so being called the greatest soresu master of all time was kind of unfair for the order as a whole. He was definitely the best his era, but he was an outlier. also I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that he had an above average connection for his time as a Padawan, I could be misremembering characters there though. That's lore wise at least, as for realistically ,its got a lot to do with movies showing things differently than the books and games due to special effects limitations so the scale of character feats are better in the books/games that came out. But we are speaking about the lore as it was seen/read/heard, so metaknowledge should not be taken into account and we should be considering only what is stated in the complete lore. which is basically that the old republic Jedi were technically the most powerful in terms of their combatants. ironically due to this same system it could be inferred that the Jedi exploration corps and agri corps were the strongest variation of their branches of the Jedi order that have existed, due to simple lack of information about the old republic Jedi order's equivalent branches.

@@momtchilboshniakov290 I meant to say greatest of his time. He was an unmatched defensive fighter. The greatest of all time was exar Kun without a shadow of a doubt

i'd just like to point out that obi one kenobi had the weakest force connection of any jedi and yet he managed to beat Darth Maul on multiple occasions, killed General Grieves who has taken out jedi far more powerfull than kenobi and as if that wasnt enough he beat darth vader on mustifar only to disapear for 9 or 10 years and then return on to completely destroy Darth Vader again and then dissapear again only to return with another skywalker, infaltrate the deathstar and then completely evaporate. what i am saying is yes power is great but, to quote luke skywalker it is nothing without training. (as a side note i would also like to add that kenobi had more expierianc eon the battle field than most other jedi)

I don't remember his name but in legends there's a jedi council member with battle meditation. Edit: *Oppo Rancisis*, Yarael Poof(according to wookeepedia)

Also force heal is a force power even before the sequels

@@Epsolon885 I thought you meant bastilla lol

@@sebastiangibson9671 I was simply telling him that there were Jedi members in the prequel era capable of using bm when he mentioned it in his comment.

@@Epsolon885 oh I didn’t know thanks actually (this ain’t sarcasm btw)

Well all of the darkside users were in hiding, maybe fight against the huts

@@privateuser3726 The Jedi should have training simulations from the Old Republic era. If nothing else, spar each other, or use a combat droid. The Jedi Order have to be ready, trained, and equipped to fight the Sith. Fighting Huts just won't help a Jedi. The Clones are prepared to fight the separatist. The Sith are trained to fight Jedi. But the Jedi are not trained well enough to compete effectively against a Sith? Something's wrong with that picture.

Ask most fans Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. the Skywalkers are the most powerful in the force ever. Yoda Mace Windu Count Dooku are the most skilled duelists ever. I don't buy it.

@@BLAZEU. I never understood why the “most powerful Sith Lord ever” lost to a bunch of ragtag rebels multiple times. Why he so easily got yeeted down a shaft. And why a young girl with barely any training reflected his own power back at him to kill him for good. If he was the most powerful he must also have been the laziest and dumbest.

@@wildcaveman5310 well, it’s actually somewhat easy to understand. Palpatine was never defeated by the rebels at all, they may have defeated armies underneath his name or his empire. However, he was never defeated at all until he met Luke Skywalker, and that makes sense because Luke Skywalker is a deus ex machina however, I do agree that Rey Skywalker/Palpatine whatever she wants to call her trash self it’s a modern bullshit that they used as plot convenience as a contrived method to kill Palppy Are, however, the Sith LordS of the past were really really strong, however once you get to the upper echelon for the top of the pendulum, you realize that the modern error ones are just a step above So basically, the meteors in the high tears of the ancient generation we’re stronger than the meteors in the high tears of the modern generation however, the top tears of the ancient generation were step below, the top tears of the modern generation. That’s the easiest way to see it.

@@drew8324 did Palpatine go head to head vs the armies of the rebels? Unfortunately no and that would have been a display of real power. Imagine if he faced off against thousands of them. Or better yet if those thousands had been Jedi. Wait that kind of sounds like what Tulak Horde did. You can really say Sidious lost a fight to Luke since they didn’t really fight. Although that would have been even more embarrassing for him to straight up loose to a fresh Jedi with barely any training… wait that’s what happened with Rey. Sure we see Sidious mop the floor with Maul and Savage and clean up 3 council members in 2 seconds but then he looses to Windu and then at best stalemates Yoda (which is a win in the big picture) but the “most powerful Sith Lord of all time” is only in power by not his own skill but luck (or the force which however you want to look at it). No disrespect meant to Windu and Yoda but the old Sith and Jedi were locked in near combat for centuries where only the strongest survived. During Bane’s rule of 2 era the Sith and Jedi had grown soft compared to what they once were. Bane recognized the ancient Sith were in another league. Why did Sidious get out of his chair and go down and personally smoke the rebels? That’s how the sith of old did things. Because they could. My bottom line is this: if Sidious was the most powerful of all time he must have also been the laziest and the most incompetent. And I can’t bring myself to say the man who orchestrated the final steps of the grand plan was incompetent. Did victory defeat him and make him lazy? Maybe. Not sure what other excuse he could have for loosing 3 death stars and 2 empires with massive armies and yet he rarely does anything himself.

​@Grant McInerney many of them are either young and ignorant or probably haven't read/played classic games. It's kinda sad at times

More like the New Republic Jedi drank Deit Coke.

You do realize the sith were waeker than their ancient masters because they had lost most of Thier power and artifacts Luke only won because the sith were waeker than the old masters Darth Traya also stated they were nothing next to the likes of the Old masters

@kathyfriedhoff9152 is true, but it's safe to say Luke's order was far more prepared than the clone wars order.

@@kathyfriedhoff9152 well it was implied that some among the highest level of those sith were capable of standing in the ring as Grandmaster Luke and his order's masters, sure the majority were not, but thats not saying much considering it was Grand master Luke skywalker we are talking about here. also of course the sith of the lost tribe were weaker in the apocalypse book, by that point, Abeloth killed the majority of the stronger sith and only left those that submited to her allure and her coup of the navy alive. Im not saying Luke's order wasn't prepared, but most of the jedi fighting in the fate of the jedi apocalipse book were the war veterans (who fought palpatine's empire, the many sucsessor states/palpative sith cults and the vong war) whilst the less experienced members of lukes jedi order aren't really mentioned. so comparing their skills the survivors of the lost tribe sith would never have been fair.

id say luke understood the golden rule "stay ready so you dont have to get ready"

The Jedi were supposed to be the warrior poets. But became poets and sophists weak and deluded.

That also factors in as well as the more recent Jedi Civil War.

Just look at our history from a century ago. Everyone is eager to believe that the conflict can end.

Well they could have done something about Bane, But the Jedi just chose to ignore him.

The Sith were rendered completely extinct as of TROS, so what do you mean "there will always be Sith"?

@@decepticonxhunter4850 Holocrons exist, and Jedi will continue to fall. They'll be back.

@@decepticonxhunter4850 And the sequel trilogy is not canon.

The massacre at the Colosseum on Geonosis showed how far Order had fallen.

Not really. They were powerful for their time. Important word being ‘time’. It's like comparing Sulliman The Great’s army when he took Constantinople to a first-world nation’s military and concluding Sulliman’s army is more powerful because a book at the time says it is.

you are right , but that's using metaknowlage to explain a situation in a fandom. what most fans try do here is interpret it through a purely lore perspective.

@@momtchilboshniakov290 which in my opinion is silly. It's shitty writing to go off kilter and take the story off the cannon power level. I say clone wars feloni style and samurai jack style and prequels is the limit of power levels and tiering and hierarchy for me.

@@You-to-be ok, that is fine, honestly the way I see it ,the power levels changing is just normal for a universe that's been developing for over 40 years. With Lucas's original vision really not mattering as much after the stories began being expanded upon and changing with the fandom, especially after 200 books of development and changes. The way we interpret the changes is either taking them at face value and getting annoyed at the inconsistencies or interpreting them purely lorewise in a way that let's us enjoy the fandom by arguing about which iteration of the Jedi order was the best. Also for clarification the samurai Jack style animated series actually shows feats that are several orders of magnitude more than the faloni TV show... like the jedi telekinesis and physical enhancements are in line with the original expanded universe lore... like anikin dragging a 250m long ship hundreds of meters fast enough to intercept guided munitions within a second and windu blowing away small armies by himself, punching through half a dozen armored superbattledroids in a second. Whilst the feloni show is more in line with the new cannon, Anakin struggles with an granade explosion and windu needs 2 seconds to break a plane of armored glass.

@@momtchilboshniakov290 i only use the samurai jack style for tiering, thinking about it the samurai jack version Anakin actually showed Anakin as a powerful dangerous immature jedi. Best Anakin depiction for me. But yeah samurai jack version power level made the separatists scary. Ideal power level would be between CWs feloni and jack version. Leaning more towards jack version

@@You-to-beto be fair, in most of the original EU books luke is kinda in a middle ground between the two shows in his powerlevel, when he has time to concentrate he could mindtrick a whole warship from his fighter several kilometers away, whilst in the same book trilogy he has problems keeping up a physical enhancement. That's really the problem with the whole concentration based magic systems and how to scale them ... Also, after our conversations reminded me of it... I really wish they continued producing a samurai jack style star wars TV show... it would be amazing if they continued it like they did the actual samurai jack story.

She died to Starkiller, who wasnt even a sith lord

No it's blue, it was Zao who used the green saber

Not just practice. Their entire philosophy of the Force was much different and made them ripe for conquest.

The newer jedi order also had some very unforgiving rules, such as how Anakin was afraid that he eould be kicked out if they found out about his baby. While the entire Shan bloodline had offsprings that extended to Jedi Grandmaster Satele Shan also having a son.