Why People Stay In Abusive Relationships 

What's funny with this reasoning is that the victim is fully expected to forgive the abuser, yet when the victim makes a mistake, the abuser suddenly can't spare a shrivel of forgiveness or patience to the victim! Very one sided and manipulative and unfair.

The lesson here is not that empathy is bad or unhelpful. It is bad and unhelpful when we don't expect that empathy to be extended to ourselves as well. The abuser is an adult that makes their own choices and should be aware that their actions affect you and you may be hurt. If they cannot take that responsibility, you need to decrease their role in your life

Yeah my mom still does this, almost instinctually spitting out the ‘well he grew up like…’, while my dad talked about how horrible his parents are in a way to emphasise how fun he is and how tolerant he is. But he does everything he complained about his parents doing and much much much worse. He’s better than his parents only when he’s having a good day, the second anything is in his way or irritating no other people’s feelings or interests matter. I was raised to be a doormat to forgive and forget and excuse everything my dad did and be a yes-man to everything and coddle him and pretty much spend every day walking on egg shells. My moms only advice is to just not take it so seriously. So fucking easy for her to say not having to grow up under him, herself having an average childhood, and average parents. Some People in abusive and narcissistic relationships will find ANY way to justify their abusive partner, even when they realise how bad they are

We empathize with them to survive them but we can't thrive like this because our energy is going to keeping us alive but not free

The key is to understand, but not justify or vindicate. Wrong is wrong, reason or not. When something is wrong, THERE MUST BE CHANGE. THERE WILL BE CHANGE.

Yeah I was taught to forgive pretty much anything as a child. I didn't really had a choice. I didn't realize it's not "healthy" the past year only.

Get out now people. I've been needing to get out of my 18 year marriage with an emotionally abusive, negligent and alcoholic spouse for 7 years, and this year diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. These people affect your health and you may not have the time to turn it around like you think you do.

It’s not just empathy, it’s hope that they can do better, and putting them first. In a healthy relationship, both parties can put each other first and it balances out. Like, they’re willing to do this for you, but you’re also willing to do that so they do have to do this sort of thing. But, if one party thinks like that and the other puts themselves first all the time, it’s very one-sided and doesn’t result in a healthy relationship. For example, not leaving them or sugarcoating what they’re doing, so as not to upset them or break their heart. But, the problem is that they’re not doing the same for you. They’re only thinking of themselves and what they can get. Both people doing this is the start of the end of a relationship and ultimately that’s where it’ll end up if the selfish party doesn’t compromise and get more selfless. Basically taking a healthy attitude into a relationship where the other party is incapable of having a healthy relationship. But, you keep hoping that if you just show them enough love and care, they’ll feel safe reciprocating. Not to mention, abusers typically demonstrated this in this beginning, so that fuels hope that they can just return to that once the relationship gets through this bump in the road. It can take a while to realise that how they were in the beginning wasn’t really them, they were faking it and manipulating you. How they are now is who they really are and they just feel comfortable enough to show you that now they think you’re committed and won’t leave. Abusers will often express remorse for their actions and give false hope that they want to do better. Oh, and the way that abuse affects you actually makes you less capable of leaving. If thinking for yourself got you in trouble with them, you learn not to do that. All the little things that got you in trouble, you avoid doing. But, it’s all those things that make you your own person and capable of doing what’s best for you. When you’ve been suppressed into a dim version of yourself, it can seem insurmountable to leave and be your own person again. It’s insidious how they chip away at you with a thousand paper cuts. Anyone with experience of this will know that you can’t even do what they want you to do anymore once they’ve broken you down. You just need to let go of the notion that they’ll realise that this is the result of their actions and go back to treating you better so you can function better again and do the things that make them happy. They just don’t see it like that. As far as they’re concerned, you’re just broken and annoying. Like a toaster that they’ve pushed to its limits. As far as they’re concerned, it’s just time to get a new shiny toaster that can do what they want it to do. Because you’re not human to them and their actions aren’t the cause of you being broken. It’s just planned obsolescence. You’re just faulty. Incapable of performing to their demands. That’s the empathy you need to use. The realisation that, no matter what they’ve been through that made them the way they are, that they just don’t respect you as a human being. To them, you are an object, a tool. And even if you utilise being motivated to fix yourself for their sake, you do need to start fixing yourself, because they won’t when it’s easier just to replace a broken toaster. So, start doing things to fix yourself, but be cognisant of the fact that there’s a difference between fixing and healing. And what you need is to heal. Heal to be better for them and you’ll probably realise that you’re just better off without them pushing you to your limits and breaking you down all the time. After all that work to heal yourself, don’t let them ruin it again, like they undoubtedly would whether you were a new shiny toaster or an old trusty toaster that’s been repaired. Just because you can empathise with them doesn’t mean you have to tolerate them in your life. Somebody else is more worthy of the repaired version of you, somebody who will appreciate all you have to offer and treasure you. If they fixed you, they might have a claim, but they won't, you did that. And you don't want to do it again, so don't let anyone break you again. Yes, there’s an unhealthy dose of empathy involved and without that, you probably wouldn’t tolerate their behaviour, but the problem isn’t empathy, per se. Empathise with them, sure, but if they’re putting themselves first all the time, then who is putting you first? Somebody has to. And if it’s not them, it has to be you.

The sad part about this is that more often than not, abusers are like that because people around them enable it. Ain't nobody gonna give them a reality check or tell them straight to their face to stop, even the ones who can. Well, it is what it is, sadly.

I have been there. Never again. I tolerated little things, then many little things, then they kept growing to the point I had to start weekly therapy. It's not worth it. I'll be quick to walk away when I see those signs again. 💯

there"s also the messed up reality that leaving your abusive partner/parent can leave people homeless as they are the only person able to pay rent

Lost a loved one to DV. We were states away and never knew. If you think it can’t happen to you it can.

This is what I was like before. But I don't think empathy and sensitivity is a bad trait to be ashamed of, so my thought process now is: "Yes, I understand where they're coming from, *but* I won't tolerate this behavior because I deserve empathy too." (Assuming the behavior is abusive or at least uncomfortable.) I choose to keep being empathic and kind *and* also hold people accountable and put my safety and comfort first.

For me atleast. The key word was tolerating the behavior. You can forrgive and you should forgive, nobody is perfect and we are always striving to be better. But the problem is tolorating the behavior and not setting boundaries. Please forgive the people that have wronged you if you can. But it dosent mean forget what they have done the bottom line is that they hurt you and broke your trust. Set boundaries and do not tolerate the behavior but always try to forgive

Yes, forgiveness and understanding is important. But not tolerating abuse to oneself is as, if not more, important to receiver. Please don't forget to take care of yourselves first.

it's sad to me that he just described my thought process word for word for my last relationship, i was aware of all of it very early on but i put up with it because i understood and we were working on it. it didn't matter if she attacked me when i made a bad joke, caused me pain for entertainment, pressured me for s*xual things, expected the world of me while giving me almost nothing, refusing to forgive me for the smallest mistakes, etc, i really loved her and thought if i was stubborn enough we'd eventually make it work. the pathetic part is that she's the one who dumped me, which she did because she'd drained my soul to the point where i didn't even enjoy the nice parts anymore and i was just an emotionless servant, so i was making her just as miserable as she made me

You can empathize while keeping your self-respect and enforcing your boundaries. If you can't do that, leave.

The same with narcissist .

I also think that if you grew up always coming last on everything you just naturally believe you should always come last. This makes it easy for people to get comfortable with treating you as a doormat. You just dont believe you deserve better. You empathize with everyone else, but cant fathom it being done for you because no one ever did. I honestly think environmental changes are a huge factor to healing. The moment I moved away from my family I learned I could be happy.

Ah yes, the Reek phenomenon. It’s sad to know someone who’s in a situation like this and to try to get them to realize it’s happening to them. At best, they’ll turn a blind eye and at worst they’ll snap at you, employing a lot of the same techniques their abuser is using on them. It’s a sad state of affairs.

I don't know if the term abusive relationship would fit into my past relationship. I was with this girl who seemed nice at first, always wanted my attention and time but later it so happened that I was forced to cut my ties off with my friends and was also forced to cut my ties off with my family by spreading negative things about them. I was lonely and didn't have any friends around with me. At first, it was potrayed that all she wanted was me but later things really got worse when things started falling downhill. After breaking up, we still kept in touch as friends but still the abuse kept going on in subtle ways. And even after all this, I was the one who was tarred as Toxic. 😂😂😂 It feels funny to me now that I think of. In 2022, we officially stopped talking after she called me toxic and said I was wasting her time... After year of not keeping in touch with her, I received a message in 2023 saying that how guilty she was and how bad she was with me. And we should try being friends. After reading the message, I just blocked her. 😂

Now I get it. This confirms my thoughts about that phrase. I thought it was kind of a joke but, this makes sense. I get it why some people say, "I can fix her/him."

Very true ❤ nail on the head

Let's gooooooooooooooooooooooo ! F unhealthy relationships . Too many healthy fish

I feel this way towards a lot of people. Its hard to hate someone when they were dealt a bad hand. Luckily I'm not in any abusive relationships though.

It’s a mix of this with the abuser having you convinced it’s you, you’re at fault and need to do better.

That's the mistake I did for years. I turned a blind eye on BS, and ended up being cut off for years. I wanted to preserve the family relationship, but instead of preserving it, it just ruined the relationship. Even though we talk to each other now, I still don't trust her.

It's useful to learn to be alone. It greatly decreases your tolerance of things like that

Damn… too true, and magnified about 1000x when the abusers are your parents or guardians (either as a kid or an adult). Nice way to make it incredibly clear why people cling to abusers of all flavors

You cannot change people, but you can resonate with people's struggles though. It's hard to see some people go through issues that you already overcome and sometimes your just there to lend a hand with they need it.

In a world 🌎 where especially attractive criminals have compassionate fans who literally excuse their crimes with their difficult biographical backgrounds just because they are attractive... Well, then nothing can leave me baffled. (:

I don't know who needs to hear this, but I don't think the problem is empathy in itself (unless it's physical abuse) but rather failing to realize the other party isn't doing the same for you and/or failing to learn where to draw the line. If you don't empathize or try to see where your partner is coming from, then you are the person on the other end of this conversation. It's fine to acknowledge that the other person had a different background or a tragic upbringing. That can help you understand how to address the issue, but don't leave it at that. Do something about it. Tell your partner. Ex: Hey, I need to talk to you about what happened last night. Hear me out. I know you told me before that you get angry easily because of (XYZ), but I need you to know I would never do that to you, and you screaming at me (or whatever the problem is) makes me scared. It makes me feel unsafe when you get that angry, so I need you to not scream at me. Maybe the next time you get angry you can let me know you need space or to take a breather outside and then we can continue the conversation after you calm down, but I need you to not scream at me. (Speak to them calmly. Do not attack them but be firm, and don'tignore the problem. It won't fix itself) If the other person refuse to hear you out, won't let you speak, refuse to compromise, or say he/she will change but never put in any effort to do so, these are all huge red flags, and you should consider ending the relationship. If the other person is hitting you, then definitely leave. There is no excuse for physical abuse. It does not matter if your relationship is romantic, platonic, or familial, all relationships require give and take. If one person is doing all the taking and no giving (including empathy), then that's an unhealthy relationship. It can be difficult to heal from past traumas, but it is not your responsibility to fix someone, and you don't have to put up with it. If you want to help them or you want to make it work, it will only work if they WANT the help and if you both communicate and compromise. Everyone need to have boundaries, learn how to communicate them, learn how to uphold their boundaries, learn how to handle confrontations, and learn to cut people off when they refuse to stop pushing the set boundaries.

I empathised less and less with my mom's emotional outbursts, attempts at gaslighting, lying, downplaying and invalidating and I'm doing so much better for it. I really want to help her and understand her, but it seems like she doesn't understand herself and doesn't want help :(

I did this and still do, even though I have awareness that it brings me more harm. I’ve been to psychologists and only became worse.

Understanding the problem doesn't fix the problem. Accepting the circumstances doesn't mean you approve of the circumstances. Being able to empathize with someone else and understand the circumstances they're living is a superpower, but it's useless as data if it's not acted upon in a fruitful way.

Just remember: a cause is not justification. Growing up with yielling parents and learning to communicate with yielling is not a justification. It's a cause. The line between what something _is_ and what it _ought_ to be is clear. Don't confuse it.

Some people stay in abusive relationships because they don't have a point of reference for what should be tolerated and why shouldn't, or they don't have much experience with abusive people. Other people stay because people are attracted to familiarity. So if you grow up with abusive people, then you can become attracted to abusive people.

100%... empathy is twisted and "rationalizing" as a coping mechanism makes it a self sustained cage

This is part of the reason I have a problem with people acting like someone needs to forgive. You don’t have to forgive. Sometimes it’s actually better not to forgive because some people don’t deserve forgiveness. Sometimes, by forgiving, you are actually damaging yourself. Some people will say forgiveness is good for your own well being but I disagree. Forgiveness lets people off the hook and often makes you take more shit from people than you should. Anger isn’t always a bad thing either. Anger is what drives you to leave someone abusive. Anger and not forgiving is a reminder what someone did to you wasn’t your fault and that they shouldn’t be allowed to dodge accountability. I am much more confident than I used to be once I stopped letting my parents off the hook. I no longer blame myself for things they did to me in the past, I don’t feel guilty for cutting contact with them. I don’t feel angry all the time, but sometimes I do get angry or sad thinking about the past. And this is a normal human emotion that needs to be felt in order for me to move on with my life. I stopped taking abuse from other people too. Once I cut contact with my parents it completely changed me as a person. Made me realize how much better life is when you aren’t putting up with abuse, and now I can’t stand abusive and chaotic people. I used to have chaotic and abusive friends when I was younger, but I don’t deal with that nonsense anymore, I don’t put up with it at all. I can empathize with people, understand awful things they go through, but leaving someone is about protecting yourself, and that doesn’t make you a bad person. Being able to turn off your empathy when you need to is a good thing imo. I’ll be empathetic to you about your past, struggles you go through, etc. all day long, but the moment you show me you’re an a-hole, a manipulative, abusive person, my empathy for you is gone and you are also gone from my life. So don’t feel bad for leaving someone, don’t feel bad for standing up for yourself, being angry with someone, not forgiving them. Forgiveness is something you give at your own free will when you’ve decided it’s what you want and what’s best for you, not something anyone is entitled to.

Haven’t been in an abusive relationship but I certainly let things slide for longer than I should because I empathised with their trauma and I felt guilty at the thought of adding my issues with the relationship on to their pile

Real. My ex-wife is a decent person, but overall our relationship was deeply unfair and hurtful. And yet I still excuse the abusive aspects of our marriage because oooo she went through so much in her life and she worked so hard and she always struggled and oooo. Didn't justify the entitlement issues, the hyper-exactness, the talking down to me on a daily basis, thefrequent outbursts, the threats and actions of violence... 😑

the victim needs to add in self love for themselves to correctly value themselves and know their self worth. They would then put harder boundaries on abusive actions, learning to say no and leaving.

being forgiving of bad behaviour is good, it's good for me not them. I don't even have to tell they I forgive them. Being tolerant of their bad behaviour is the problem. You can leave an abusive relationship and forgive. You can't leave if you tolerating an abusive relationship.

So what if you happen to feel like you have to stay in that relationship because things will get worse if you walk out? What's that? I'm guessing not empathy.

Yep, I did it all the time, but you have to remember, we have all been through bad things, but we don't all behave in a bad way... it's a choice

Forgiveness and empathy are good for your own soul but so is setting boundaries and refusing to take more abuse. "I may gain forgiveness but that doesn't let me escape the consequences." Forgiveness is good for yourself if you're the victim but it's important to have compassion for yourself by protecting yourself from further abuse.

So this is complex in a way. This complexity is especially true if each family member has had their own trauma yet lived under the same roof. We saw each event differently through our own lens then coped with it in our own way. Usually in that instance, each family member begins to heal after attracting relationships that are actually good for them. The ones that awaken the best versions of our truer selves. But your mind and heart have to want yourself to want them. It’s so damned weird and bizarre. To feel deserving of giving love to yourself and then to others. Then having trust and faith in the universe that in that process, you’ll be better able to deal with whatever comes after.

If only I’d seen this clip for years ago. This is exactly what i did, day in and day out. I feel like an idiot

I was friends with some one like this, and it just eat up half-year of my life, it was awfull. If you think that you need cancel relationships (any of them), you need to do it, and fast, or it just gonna get worse

Yeah... I did this. Even after she tried to murder me. Because I stayed, their friends concluded that I must have been the real abuser. Thankfully, the court separated us and they were convicted. After sentencing (I helped reduce the sentencing), they dropped me. It was devastating, but I am glad that I was given an opportunity to recover.

Ah yes the Kid's Book version of reality. Oh he set your cat on fire but have you thought about what a sad life he's got? He just needs more love. Yeah no. Don't offer compassion to the fleas biting your ass or the mosquitoes on your face. Same with people who hurt you. You try to understand why they hurt you and they don't care why you cry. Bad deal.

Forgive just means you don't retaliate and don't become like the perpetrator. It doesn't mean "not hold people accountable" or "stay and tolerate abuse".

When will be the stream about autism?

It’s my fault that I want the dishes done so I can’t be mad at him for not doing the dishes. God I hated living with my old roomate.

Why are my therapists telling me to do these then

Yeah I have VERY much done that for a long time until I finally worked it out.

The longer bad behaviour is tolerated the more abuser become certain they can do whatever because there will be no consequences. Often they will get only more and more manipulative or violent with time.

Me looking back at several aspectsnof my life throught the years: oh

That makes sense.

I empathize with my dad so bad that he really had a lot going on and at this point I have my family to intervene once in a while cause my red flag signal is a bit too weak when it comes to him 😅

It took me a long time and a lot of therapy to even realize my ex was abusive. I did this a lot… Thank God she ended it. Who knows how long I would have stayed if she didnt

It's hard to stop giving a fuck about how tortured they are, but once you learn that it's not mean to say, "no," you will be able to breathe, and that's better than being abused by far.

Under stand 😮‍💨

Friends who do this are frustrating too. I had one who, upon hearing any story of someone abusing me, would immediately start trying to understand and empathise with the bad person. Sure, that might be OK on some level, but you're in front of the victim. Could you please first express a bit of empathy for *me??* It might not be their fault that they were raised badly, but it's certainly not *my* fault either and I'm the one who's just had five grand stolen.

Yup -- full-on *Stockholm Syndrome.* Everyone who survived toxic, narcissistic relationships with a psychopath knows all too well what Dr. K is describing. And for those out there in this situation, *NO - it's NOT OKAY to normalize and rationalize someone treating you like shit "just because they are sad, angry, ran out of their favorite ice cream flavor or WHATEVER; don't let them maintain control over you and make your life Hell.* Break free from their chains.

Yep, have never done this before 👀

We're told to forgive. We're told the fight only got so bad because we reacted. It seems like it would be dramatic to leave.

empathising doesn't have to mean working for their goals tho? i went no contact with a relative i never once stopped empathising with; it was detrimental for that person's self growth to have a human they could try to treat as stress toy anyway, so neither of was was getting anything worthwile out of this, and as much as that relative wanted to keep that going indefinitely, it was time to break the chord empathy is a tool, one doesn't _have to_ do things someone's way just because one _feels_ things someone's way. on the other hand, i know that manipulation works on the assumption that people would follow what they _feel_, and that it's a statistically effective assumption if i were to guess why, a lot of people must mistake what they feel at a given moment for who they are at all times? 🤔 and I'm only spared due to a strategy that aims to counterpoint adhd impulsivity - giving me a perspective for _all_ decisions, not just those _commonly_ considered impulsive. 🤔 dunno, just guessing

So true

And at the same time with this narrative the abused can avoid the acceptance of their condition as a victim. Lots of people don't like being a victim or feel ashamed, so they rationalize it.

It happens in cults too. They forbid you to leave your partner.

Empathy is pointless and also poisonous, but people are not ready for that conversation..

When you're a man and mom was your first abuser, this problem is an especially fun time. Society gaslights the hell out of you. You'll be the problem if you question it.

I wish I could trust that the first psychiatrist I would see is as good as this guy... And not someone like the last one that wanted nothing more than to toss me away into a psych ward when I presented no such deserving behavior

This exactly whats going on with my parents

I have NEVER "empathized" with ANYBODY that's abused Me, TF! 🤔🙄😒🤨😠👎🏻

"Forgive [them], but never forget their names." -John F. Kennedy

Constantly getting kicked down by society requires empathy to avoid doing stupid stuff and ending up in jail?

Great, so now I'm going to feel guilty every time my wife emphasises with me. Thanks healthygamer

What do we think about restorative justice on this channel?

ahhhh fuck help me what do I do about it

What’s the solution? I’m currently in what id call an abusive relationship both emotionally and physically (once every couple weeks) so not too bad. I’ve always thought she had BPD so have been more forgiving and your right she was brought up in an abusive environment herself. When I lost my best friend to suicide we fell out a couple weeks later and she made the remark “At least my friends are alive” knowing fine well I had to untie him from the tree myself. I’m mentally absolutely fucked since that but we have 4 very young kids together so I let it happen so I don’t need to worry about the kids being separated from me. I think about suicide all the time, even though I’d never do it, I look forward to the end. If I didn’t have kids I wouldn’t still be here. If anyone see’s this and has any advice please let me know, running out of options.

I am empathetic about them at all still then

Nobody can afford to empathize with someone that actively makes their life miserable, well unless the they don’t have any self worth

Relatable

me with my mom

Empathy is really dangerous and bad skill.

What's the solution?

What is the solution then

Makes me cringe. I did that! Till I stopped! Took a lot but finally did. If it's you get into therapy! Stat!

Then this empathy extends to the political domain, and things get twisted

Can someone please explain to me how women can be abusive to their spouses?

@HealthyGamerGG how about a 13 yr relationship where she has pain during intercourse and as a result, he gets 'neglected' for the past 12 yrs? (12 years = [at most] 40 successful & 200+ 1-sided failed bedroom encounters.) Medical intervention, to address the pain, has been declined, home treatment therapy has been unfruitful and highly inconsistent. Should he empathize with her pain over his own needs?

Stockholm Syndrome. This is why Empathy is the root of all evil.

Get it. But then, what is the good degree of empatic. Because, I dont think we are expected to not be empatic at all with our partners, forgiving their mistakes. You say the good thing to do is do the opposite? To not be tolerant, empatic, forgiving ? That wouldn't work either. So, There is a line ? How do you draw it ? How do you know when you are beign too much empatic ?

Is this Stockholm Syndrome?

F that.

Not really explaining the why, you need the reason why they empathize with an abuser.

Oh the political analogies one could draw...

Oh