Man hear me out : zilean adc with tear build max e, yuumi support full ap also max e, with a phase rush skarner jungle you can kidnap people from across the map without them realizing it
i play a lot, and i mean a LOT of off-meta crap (crit nocturne top, tank renekton jg, ad bruiser skarner top, prowlers full ad/on hit voli jg, etc) pls tell me the build and runes
Ah yes. Especially old The Fast builds iterations. Running faster than Sion with ulti and killing him while he still running. You just run alongside and shooting him. Ah, good times
It's been unironically good lately. 3 attack speed items let me outrun an Udyr and Hecarim and force them to flash or ult on me which I can immediately cleanse.
I want my favorite season 7/8 back or even season 6 i miss old jungle And as top player i got one question Why movement speed buffs from literally everything can't just disappear ? ( I'm talking about you Lillia while being slowed down by over 50 % and still being faster than most champs )
I'll never forget that game where my adc announced fasting senna in champ select after I locked in Bard... like bro, I won't even be in lane all the time to farm
I think it's also fair to say that the tank build definitely deals less damage. It's great in solo q when you're afraid of assassins and divers getting stacked and wrecking you, but if you have a coordinated team there's no real reason to build tank, especially with your amazing reach combined with good positioning.
Yeah, Tank Senna is a prime showing of why Pro and regular LoL are 2 different games and why most people should only use pro builds as a rough guide; by no means do most low/mid-ELO ADCs (myself included) have both the positioning sense and teamwork to make the most out of their role, so taking hybrid items makes sense because 2x300 damage>1x500 damage; the first step towards dealing damage is being alive to do it.
Me the ALPHA M*LE of this comment section and me command RESPECT. Right now me telling you to NOT observe any of me nice cool sweet videos. Instead just look at me awesome good powerful thumbnails. Thank you, dear tuma
I was really happy and surprised to see an Eternal Hero clip in the video. He's been doing collabs with other content creators recently so glad to see people are noticing him more. His content is so good.
Creativity is really suppressed in LoL for some reason. It gets weird when it gets "discovered," popularized, then nerfed into the ground despite being strong for a very long time. I was running Raka Top the second the poaching change was made in Season 8 because I actually read patch notes. It took a year for people to catch on
@@True_Damage69 botting/exploiting(And I mean.. I wasn't false banned I used invite crashing,ARAM free boost,attempted to remake custom ranked exploit) but i might buy senna again who knows
It was an instant answer to the removal of glacial hammer. I use it since start of the season Specially when was more op even and assasins were everywhere on solo q.
i had a friend who played a few games with me after i started getting into the game. the last champion that was released when he quit was ornn, and we immediately went up against a senna x seraphine bot lane and he was so confused lol. he's perma banned senna ever since.
@@ft_shipper I am so glad there are people who always ban Senna like me lmao. When I play with my friends even in Flex we usually ban none just to add to the fun but once Senna started attacking me from halfway across the lane I've never seen her in another game
Absolutely great video as usual exil. Great work. One little note though. Coming from a senna main, I just wanted to add two things. Firstly, this senna build is actually not as new as you think. This build was the standard soloq build last season by the last third of the season. Going grasp of the undying with frozen mallet into black cleaver into edge of night was seen by most senna mains as the most optimal senna build because of how good the stats of frozen mallet were. Simply AD and health, which is all that senna wanted since grasp damage scales with max health and all the other items synergies really well with her. She would just one-shot you while being even more unkillable than now. Secondly, it was extremely troll to run both glacial augment and mallet. Slows don’t stack.
From my experience the tank build needs time in the game with a lot of passive stacks to get back the lacking damage that the aggresive items provides Pro player matches are very important that you get fast farm so dps is very important All players in the match knows how important their 300g is to the enemy so you will often see each carry with 400-500+ farm on both sides with minimal kills/deaths you could argue that senna does not farm as a support in pro play but it's also based on senna's ability to zone, without early damage your ability as senna to control an area is limited so pro players probably choose the damage build while using good positioning as a defence instead.
i adore your videos!! your voice is so calming it actually helped me through some anxiety attacks. whenever i feel like just hearing something i know that you will always have videos!!
just discovered your channel yesterday and i’m just spamming all of your videos, my god such a good editing 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 The way you are telling stuff makes me watch so many of your videos without even feeling time passing good job you are doibg great keep it up 🔥
I believe Pros doesn’t use this build because is aimed for late game. Tank Senna doesn’t help with damage at early game in line and the whole games use to last between 15 to 25 mins at most. So Tank Senna with 100 charges won’t deal enough damage. For that reason any other tank support is better. In low ELO this build could be viable.
@Exil to be more specific about why pros play AD/AS senna, There are more tanks in pro play, usually supp/top/jungle could be tank, its hard to beat a full Resistences sion without an ADC etc and also fasting generates the most gold per stats since supp can farm (tk, sion, heimer, maokai, jarvan, etc) + the senna still gets the gold from wraiths and stats from them, even tho the tank one seems stronger, its not as optimal to pro play or gives the most amount of gold value
had a rough day, very VERY painful backache and barely keeping my eye open. but i still watched the video full. aside that Exil made, its also an interesting topic thanks for quality content. keep up the good work. wish you all well
@@Exil22 thanks. 3 days ago twisted my back muscle on a training to actually help chronic backache. today was worse than past days. its good for now though. took a shower, helped a little. also, i actually did like the video. a year ago i mained Senna support for a few weeks none-stop. was interesting to watch this video, though at first expected it to be more of a general document rather than about one in recent patches. hope your day gets better too.
Every time these tank builds for (designed to be) high damage champions come along they usually get nerfed. Reminds me of the times tank fizz, Yi and other assassins were running around killing everyone whilst being impossible to kill themselves. I have a very strong feeling this will be nerfed soon…
I found the mention of tank ekko as v fun nostalgia. He dropped at a point where he was literally one of the most mobile, highest dps overloaded kits. They had to nerf assassin Ekko, so became unviable midlane, became a menace skirmishing tank jungle and top, so they had to try gut that. I remember it being weeks of Ekko permaban before riot could find a "decent" fix, which was to just make him unviable until they could fix him.
I think it's also that kraken slayer just overall does more damage to tanks than black cleaver which is very useful if you're the team's main tank buster.
Ngl I'm linda tired of everyone just using op picks and builds while I'm always trying and spending hours brainstorming and coming up with different and interesting off-meta builds only to get constantly stomped by people just searching for the best stuff on u.gg and calling it a day, sorry for the rant but it just feels pointless when I'm trying to experiment with things like nocturne top with crit kraken/shieldbow into rageblade and onhit of drain tank vi mid with eclipse, visage thornmail and steraks/stoneplate (the only builds I've tried that have had some success without getting countered by meta picks).
Those days ended a long time ago. Even as far as items and champion scaling go you are very limited in options. If you like theory crafting it’s best to find newer games where you can find an advantage over brainlets and Asians who can’t innovate
@@lovepink7233 i mean, i still have fun but it can be tiring, for examle right now i'm working on an ad bruiser leona build with sunderer and it's been doing well, but sometimes it can be really hard
@@lovepink7233 Oh yeah 'cause wanting to lose is clearly such an innovative way to think. Theory crafting takes some actual thought and not just slapping random items on champ and expecting it to work. Also I love how you both clearly have no idea how theory crafting actually works, you do realise that to get a meta build someone has to have done the work already.
I don't just slap some items on a champion and expect it to work, I play leona top with sunderer because -her q has a really low cooldown that can get to almost 2 seconds with some ability haste, so she can proc sheen easily -since i'm building ad and all of leona's spells do magic damage she makes great use of the armor and magic pen of sunderer's mythic passive -With this build leona has a really good level 1 with auto q auto to proc pta, and sheen is also a strong early powerspike Sure, it's not the best top lane pick out there, i could just do what everyone does and play whatever's meta atm, but at least i put some thought into what i'm doing
I played a game of Senna support once sort of by mistake. Autofill, free champ. Decided to google the best build and got the tank build. Just wanted to mention that since Grasp of The Undying scales with health and gives you health, and comes up so often, tank Senna is hitting you with a little Dark Harvest every few seconds by mid game, with her massive auto range. It's also magic damage so if you didn't get mr to fight the AD support you're in trouble.
Support is in a healthy spot compared to jungle because in the jungle, you really only see a couple champs dominate because they're pick or ban. There's so much more variety in support in comparison.
If you do the math, Senna's DPS scales just fine with attack speed compared to the field. Fun fact: By percent growth, Jinx's Rocket Dps form scales the hardest with attackspeed out of any marksperson, despite having a built-in dampening on bonus attack speed. It had to be designed with one in order to tune it down from absurdly busted, and differentiate it from the Minigun form. Phreak has a video on this And yes, Senna has incentive to auto-attack more, because of the CD refund mechanic on her Q. Jhin is not an entirely great comparison. Yes, they both ended up building lethality for periods of time, but he has non-standard interaction with attack-speed altogether. It is hardly "the same reason"
The true damage on kraken slayer scales with bonus AD, Senna gets a lot more of that damage because the way her ad scales (the souls) counts as bonus AD.
Day 382 of waiting for a Shyvana video so the Shyvans rework can get more love I am an AD Shyvana btw! Frostfire > Titanic or shieldbow > bork or stride > sterak and so on
In the beginning of Senna, in EUW everyone played a brucer Senna, with grasp, black clever, tank boots.. only the 3 or 4th iteam wear some lethalty iteam
I played a lot of Senna aswell but I think you forgot a thing aswell. The tank build came avaliable when they nerfed rageblabe and you couldn't stack infinity of on hit dmg anymore. I feel like the rageblade nerf with the cap of 100% crit really hurt the ADC Senna build. But overall a great video once again!
Everytime Senna and Seraphine is open in clash a friend of mine and I pick even though he isn't our regular support. The power of those picks is crazy. You oir pretty safe early and scale ridiculously into the late game.
Some extra context behind idea of tank Senna. This basically came about as direct successor to Frozen mallet Senna which used to be a thing... except Riot removed the item. To be fair it took a long time to connect the dots between Frozen fist being a replacement for Frozen mallet, and it was partially due to the item being bad in the preseason. The thing that tipped the scale for this build was actually two fold. Overwhelming amount of engage support being played - which directly counter support Senna, and nerfs on rageblade interaction which previously worked as "free damage boost". As mentioned, Senna felt a bit out of spot after all the lethalithy items got nerfed for ranged, rageblade build filled that void - however with the passive changes Senna always felt better in "not-farming" than farming state, so fasting Senna would be always preferred, with rageblade interaction nerf it became even more desirable to be "support" rather than carry. Bottom line, there is no word where Riot will make Senna balanced as both marksman and support, which results into weird builds being made in order to make those positions work. Even in current state, Senna is shit support if you build as marksman and support another marksman - this necessitates the tank build. Maybe with enough buffs we could see enchanter Senna become a thing, however that seems distant at this time.
I nave seen some senna mains segue over builds and saying that this build should be used only when playing her support (with q normal marksman), and in proplay senna with a marksman is never seen because it would be a useless lane without priority
So glad I quit this game. I knew after the last few iterations of champs that League was going to go through some form of a death spiral and Senna is a good example of a champion who is unbalanced unless you strip shit from her kit.
I feel like the reason i enjoy playing tank senna is similar to the "it's easier" explanation. Except for me it's more so "if i'm a normal adc and i'm not getting peel from my team, then i just need to be able to survive the zed w-ing in my general direction or the leblanc that just dashed past my entire team to reach me" it's not so much because i get to forget about positioning but because with how many assassins have a way to negate any way i can position with an instant gap closer, i need something to be able to survive it rather than just shoot once then fall on my face because i got one shot. I feel like the damage build is better for people who can actually communicate/play well with their team since you can get your tank/support to cc the assassin the instant they dive you
From that opening dialogue, I'd Love to hear you talk about One Tricks. I'd really like to understand how people can play only a single champion in a game with so many different playable characters :)
@Solarpunk Okay, I did know about some of those point before. Like game knowledge and enjoying the design/lore. That's one reason I DID enjoy MF, I enjoyed how she played, and when I first picked her up they were just reworking all the lore around her and I still think it's some of my favorite to date. But now she doesn't feel as great with a lot of the champions being played having so much mobility, but I won't complain because I'm sure at some point soon she'll get rework :) But I also find the same enjoyment out of several other champions. Vi, Jinx, Gangplank, Kayle, Illaoi... I both like how they play and their designs/lore. I'm sure it's all different mindsets. But it's so fascinating to think that people only like one character. Sometimes, and not saying you and other one tricks are the same, but they hyper focus on one champion and in doing so just HATE any and all other champions and not even giving them a chance :(
@@xxVincentVxx Because they like being exceptional on one champ than being mediocre/decent on many. And since they're really not playing for a team in a competetive setting, it works.
Rly big thank you exil my father just got to work for 5 months and i can't help it having no father again but your videos really feel me comfortable, thanks
Did you know that Runaan's auto attacks count towards lowering Senna's Q cooldown? Try building tank Senna + Runaan's and Titanic Hydra and you might see something funny. It's pretty fun playing URF in a normal game, i guarantee you late game Senna's Q will be up every 3 seconds on teamfights.
One thing about fasting Senna is that you can easily play her in solo queue regardless of what your support does. I've had pretty decent success whether going with a mage support that farms, or an engage/enchanter support that doesn't take the farm, we just let the minions die and hold a very strong freeze starving the enemy ADC from farm. You both also get a really strong early game with the 2K gold that two supports item would give, and your support can also take leftover minions that would die anyways. Double support item with senna is just as strong as support item + doran's ring
Well pros have been refusing SoloQ things for years. *points at Guinsoos Jhin* And there are proplay picks that you'll rarely see in SoloQ *points at Azir, Kalista, Kench*
For all the champions that don’t have as much history as someone like ryze, lee sin but still have interesting stories, what about a video that showcases all of those champs’ stories.
I play ADC role and I quite like the idea of fasting senna. What I usually do to make fasting coordinated, is as an ADC player I would never pick senna, but if support pre picks it, I would go for a melee supp like pantheon or Leona and just play it in my role :)
The difference between op builds for solo queue and pro scene will always be there. We saw the same thing with Seraphine during the strongest point of Moonstone (which is probably right now, but for the sake of the arguement let's say the pre-nerf pre-reworked moonstone). Yes, everyone understood what a Moonstaff Seraphine is capable of in a well-organized team fight, but it still didn't stop Seraphine players (even in Challenger) to go Liandry's into Demonic Embrace due to the nature of solo queue because relying on yourself to carry is simply more consistant. In competitve, however, pros always opted for the Moonstaff build because their team knows how to bring out the best of Seraphine by playing around her. The two builds of Senna coexist for the very same reason. Pros are expected to stay alive while pumping out damage on Senna because a Senna with 100+ stacks, which isn't unlikely as Pros tend to accelerate Senna in various ways, should be untouchable in a teamfight. In a scenario where sustainibility or the ability to withstand burst isn't an issue, going Kraken Slayer makes much complete sense especially when marksman items are so versatile. The tank build thrives in solo queue and only solo queue because people misplay, and the extra tankiness allows the Senna to escape situations that a pro Senna should never be in. Of course, I'm not saying pros don't make mistakes; in fact, the top challengers in the world (mostly China and Korea) have often demonstrated greater macro and better drafting knowledge than their domestic leagues, but that's usually because they only play a small champion pool at a very high level whereas pros have to constantly learn new picks due to shifts in meta. These shifts in meta creates a situation where someone people are playing champions they barely understand (relative to challenger one-tricks), but they pick them anyways because the fundamentals of team fighting is the same (ex. Trist, Udyr, Rell). Such an environment where no one really pushes themselves to the limit and attempts to solo kill all the time is the ideal scaling ground for Senna. With ad senna, fights becomes completely unplayable past 120 stacks for the enemy team, which would be around soul point fight if the game wasn't too one-sided, and not much happens before the third drake unless you're LPL.
Hey man! Love your content and am soon going to support you on patreon. I was wondering if sometime when you do a video on a champion or something else you could do it in a way that would be more familiar to people that haven’t experienced video games. I’ve been wanting to introduce my mother to league spectating but I want something to hook her in, and the way you do documentaries in such a professional way with the pro play highlights is so good. Sometime if you have a topic that would fit it would be great to have a video that just doesn’t dive into stats or referenced well known complicated mechanics. Thanks for your consideration, keep being awesome
Another reason for pros not playing it might be, because they just think it's not worth to play a slightly "better" build (depends), when it might get nerfed soon. I remember Caps saying that he doesn't want to play moonstone seraphine because it was meta, he saw it as a waste of time to learn something that would be nerfed before MSI and even sooner.
So a slight variant on Tank Senna was pretty popular back in S10 where Mallet->Cleaver with Grasp was popularized by i0ki into tanks. It was pretty strong :D
Tank Senna is in no way a new build, last season grasp with frozen mallet and BC was a pretty popular build as well. Still a great documentary either way though!
