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It does. To PS5 and PS4. Which includes many games originally created and published on the PS3, as well as many PS1 and PS2 games with emulation wrappers on PSN. Beyond that, Sony has little motivation to do more.
I have a large physical ps3 collection. I want to pop one of those games into my ps5 and play it. I don’t need or want a remastered version. I don’t want to rebuy this digitally or pay a subscription to access a game I already own
As someone with a few generations of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft consoles hooked up in my living room, it’s pretty noticeable how much worse Sony got about backwards compatibility after they left the PS3 behind. I have to keep my PS3 and PS2 hooked up because very few classic Playstation games make it to PS4/PS5 in good shape (with a handful showing up either with cloud gaming or often poor local emulation). By contrast, there are some earlier generation Xbox games that have better graphics when played on my Series X and I never have to re-buy backwards compatible games again. Meanwhile, on the Sony side, my PS3 digital purchases typically don’t transfer to PS4/PS5 unless I want to use cloud gaming to just play on a remote PS3. Persona 5? I bought it for the PS3 but couldn’t play it on my PS4/PS5 unless I was willing to pay full price all over again.
The Japanese did not want to call the 4th PlayStation the PlayStation 4. Four in Japanese also means death so there's a superstition that it brings bad luck. I think they were onto something. The PS3 was the last noticeable generational leap and Playstation died with the PlayStation 4. The PlayStation 5 is just a reanimated corpse. That's why it has no games and is so ugly. It's been cursed.
@@samgee500 agree. PS5 is a huge and hugly low performance PC.... better get a PC with our prefered form factor / housing and now much better performances for not much more $$ than the newly announced PS5-Pro. Furthermore, such PC will run RPS3 very well for great PS3 emulation and still improving quickly
Don't forget nintendo does the same thing. Sorta. They have minor bc on some consoles like Wii, GBA etc, but re sell the big names as VC ports on everything else.
I will not lie. A lot of this conversation went clear over my head, and I like to think I keep up with tech news. But I know I have a pile of PS2 and PS3 games I would like to play if I buy a new console. And since Sony is choosing not to offer Backward Compatibility, I choose to keep my money in my bank account. It's that simple for me.
Just go buy a PS2 or PS3 off eBay or Amazon or something then... If you are still waiting to play those games because ps5 won't, then you don't really want to play those games as there are many solutions available to you, and have been for a while. I just looked. I can have a PS3 delivered to my house from Amazon and it be here in 2 days.
@@caliginousmoira8565 Had your fat been repaired before stolen? 'Cuz by now all original fat GPUs are likely failed or failing anyways (has to be repaired with chip from newer PS3 consoles)
@@MoonSon298 yes but the whole point of the PlayStation brand was to be able to play previous generations of PlayStation games on the newer PlayStation. This is one of the main visions from the Father of PlayStation. They only went back on their word when people complained about spending too much money on PS3. So Sony did what they could to reduce costs and in doing so, thought people don't really care about the feature. I CARE ABOUT IT!
The issue with emulation is, no matter how well written, cannot perfectly simulate the enviro of the ps3 (or any target system for that matter) so that _every ps3 game will run as if natively._ The avg consumer just want their microwave to work, whatever food they heat up. Even with PCSX2 (a super mature emu),15% of games have various running glitches. If Sony just released a ps3 emu, the avg person just won't accept a bunch of games are just gonna be super glitched.
I mean the original X-box is named that as a shorthand for Direct X-box. So the take early in the video that MS treated X-box more as an API than a gaming console was spot on IMO.
No one ever brings up that we all owned ps1 classics on ps3 and Vita and Sony just decided not to carry those over to ps4. Getting ps1 running can’t be that hard. They just know we’ll still buy whatever they sell. I understand why ps3 is hard but for the older consoles they just can’t be bothered.
If you purchased a PS1 or PS2 game digitally on PS3 already, I noticed when they released the PS4/PS5 versions, they were unlocked for me as owned. It's disappointing all games are not on there and that I can't play my PS1, PS2 and PS3 physical discs.
They are named cut down yields, you can just ignore them ig I understand why he doing it, the amount of people who watch them till the end is probably a fraction and some of us (me included) like to rewatch time and time again
There is so much money in the BWC scene. Even to the fact they can even re-print PS1/PS2/PS3 games. But they want the digital market all for themselves. Greed is the factor companies run on these days.
The PS1,2 and the PSP all have Mips CPU's, the Vita has an Arm Chip. The PS3 has the Power PC Cell chip based on Risc Architecture. I think if Sony cared they can do it. Just recreate the Mips CPU and the Cell CPU all in one and emulate the GPU's on the AMD APU. Essentially hybrid emulation which will give you options like 4K Graphics and higher frame rates. They can have PS1,2 and 3 support on the next console and PSP and Vita support on the next handheld. It is doable.
I've wondered for a while how expensive it would be to take the CELL processor, shrink it down to a small and cheap process like 14nm, and include it inside the PS5. These days 7nm might even be cheap enough to do it. Theyd never do it, but it would be interesting to see if that was easier than trying to wrangle emulation with the CELL.
@@denisn8336 Yep. I legitimately would see the value in a 700$ PS5 Pro (W/ a disc drive of course) if it came with native PS3 backwards compatibility. It would be a genuine feature that would justify something like a 700$ console.
Without software emulation you won't be able to increase the native render resolution however with pssr you might be able to upscale the original hardware to the point where it's good enough.
@@samgee500 In this hypothetical they'd have only shrunk down the CELL, and would presumably be emulating the RSX which should allow them to increase the internal resolution. The PS3 did something similar where later backwards compatible models removed the GPU portion of the PS2, but kept the Emotion Engine which was the harder part to emulate. Of course they didn't increase the render resolution, but it shows the split design works.
PS3 back compat can work on PS5 (assuming emulator is like RPCS3) its the first party games that are difficult to emulate. Since they use the Cell SPU features. RPCS3 allows you to turn of some of those features in game. Its just every first party game uses them differently.
It would nice if Sony used a custom FPGA chip that they could easily emulate all past consoles to perfection. FPGAs are not cheap, but mass producing can bring down costs.
@@robertlawrence9000 that would be awesome. retro upcalers like the tink5x/4k PixelMorph and OSSC/pro make fantastic use of FPGA. the mister is a great product too. i think if Sony PlayStation engineers ever does delve into FPGAs, they would probably reverse engineer it and discontinue the chip later down the line so they could save a few bucks on manufacturing costs.
He's right about the Game Pass and multiplayer, I use it often for things like that. But most of the games I played on Game Pass are smaller indie titles, I think I might not have tried otherwise. Or even heard about. I'm on PC.
It's incredibly weird that this gamedev guy (whoever he is) is avoiding that topic, when the entire reason GamePass became a thing is because of the success of indie bundles and steam sales. He's avoiding the simple fact that people aren't going to buy his game unless it's either bundled or on a Steam sale, and GamePass was a way to get around that problem and keep people from just fleeing to the PC ecosystem to take advantage of way cheaper prices on games.
PS3 games were absurdly optimized to the point of gibberish spaghetti code. Understanding the code is on thing, being able to reproduce the quirky runtime to have deterministic results is something else entirely.
Everything said in this video tracks with my experience, this is a very good video in so much as it managed to coalesce into words the feelings I've had about game pass and the PS everything
I have a mini pc on 7840HS and ut runs RPCS3 pretty well in 1080P with good FPS. But forget about 4K 60FPS on all games. Not sure if the PS5 APU can do as well, worst or better... waiting for Strix Halo now 😊
It tried downloading my first digital PS2 game for the PS3 a week ago; Mercenaries, and it works perfectly and was very cheap! Had no problem re-buying it for £3.99. I wouldn't spend much more than that for a digital PS3 game that I already own to play it on the PS5! It's the principle!
It’s funny that they mention that if the pro had backwards compatibility that people might buy it, I’m one of those people, hell the reason I’m not getting the pro is there’s simply not enough features to me that makes the price reasonable, and I’ve just wanted backwards compatibility for the longest time
Both the ps5 and ps4 are incapable of reading ps1 discs at a hardware level. They just lack the IR laser needed for CDs. But they could get ps2 and up working since both the ps4 and ps5 can play video DVDs and, ps3 and ps4 discs are blu-rays (the ps5 discs are UHD blu-rays) so the only thing preventing ps2 and ps3 discs from running in the ps5 is software.
@@decegrease The PS2's DVD drive (as do most DVD drives) has 2 laser diodes, one for CDs and another for DVDs, since both those formats use different wavelengths of light (colors). The PS3's Blu-ray drive (like most Blu-ray drives) has 3 diodes, one for CDs, one for DVDs and another for Blu-rays. But both the PS4 and the PS5 lack the laser diode needed for CDs, only having 2 of them, one for DVDs and another for Blu-rays. PS1 discs are CDs, PS2 discs can be CDs or DVDs (most PS2 discs are DVDs tho), the PS3 and PS4 use Blu-ray for games and the PS5 uses UHD Blu-rays. I hope this clarifies somethings.
@@JoseLgamer05 yeah that basically nails it, I was curious what the hardware difference was. Figured it had to be something with the lasers that read said disks. Thanks!
@@JoseLgamer05 Yeah I remember the early PS2 games being on CD's still and the underside was blue in color. The ones based on DVD had a silver, mirror finish on the underside.
Sooner or later just like Microsoft Sony also has to adopt spir-v as the interchange format to assure backwards compatibility. Additionally games have to become way less cpu dependent. Now that AAA games take longer to produce and are rare Sony has to consider this point more than ever.
there is no way on earth the ps4, which could not smoothly emulate Jak & Daxter on the PS2 using Sony's own in-house emulator, was able to emulate PS3 games in a presentable way. And as for the PS5, it probably can emulate the PS3, but it won't match the games natively running on the console, which would be a big nono for sony. at the very least they have to get those games running at 1440p/30fps and 720p60 and let upscaling do the rest
There will be backwards compatibility once the rpcs3 emulator is good enough, the ps2 classics emulator used pcsx2 as a base. If you use the older version of pcsx2 and force the ps2 classics emulator on ps3 and ps4 to play certain games they have the exact same graphical bugs.
If PS5 would offer PS3 backwards compatibility this would be a home run. It’s one way of turning around bad press and no exclusive games shortage. Imagine playing Resistance on PS5.
A good alternative to Gamepass/MP pass is the model that It Takes Two and other co-op games take. One friend owns the game and up to n players can play the game with that friend so long as that friend is online and in their party. n being a value that the developers can set and design for their games. We used to do it back in the PSP days with Ad-hoc multiplayer where some games only required one copy of the game before you could multiplayer with them. But if you wanted to play single player in your own time, you needed two copies. I think this is by far the fairest model.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Sony to EVER release local emulation of PS3 games. They've been pushing remakes of their own IPs and third parties since be the a bit before the PS4 launched. Sit down with a complete list of PS3 games and start eliminating items. Start with the annual release sports franchises. The publishers of those wish the previous year's version would die as soon as its successor launches on the same platform, never mind two platforms removed over a decade later. Next, start eliminating games that have licensing entanglements that make them a hassle to keep on the market. (If they can't make new sales, Sony has no reason to care.) Then there's the orphan titles with no certain ownership. (Microsoft's iterative translation technique made those a no go for them due to creating a derivative native binary in the process.) Then there's the multi-platform releases that were markedly inferior on the PS3 due to the learning curve obstacle, especially in the first two years or so. Now the list is a fair bit shorter. We can now mark off all of the games that have had remakes released since the PS4 launched. What's left that made good money on the PS3 and anyone beyond a tiny niche audience still cares about? Not a lot. Why would Sony sink many millions into bringing those games to the current and future market? Where's the ROI? Anything on PS3 perceived as having good ongoing revenue potential has likely already received a remake or is in the process. (MGS4, for example) Having it on PS4/PS5 natively is far less hassle for cloud offerings and moving to other platforms without the CELL complexity holding up the process. When Microsoft went the extra mile for backward compatibility, it was because they badly needed it. They were the underdog more often than not. Sony had the entire PS1 library to draw upon, and many third party titles on PS2 that had no other venue. Microsoft had just the original Xbox to draw upon and that library was on the small side by comparison, with few genuine exclusives. Early on, publisher support for the Xbox 360 wasn't as wide as they would have liked, following the Xbox. Despite having done much better business with the 360, Sony still had a strong lead in diversity of titles on their machine. Microsoft wanted the BC to the 360 to be there at launch but the delay ended up being yet another stumble out the gate for the Xbox One. Their library on Xbox One needed all the help it could get, while Sony had the luxury of taking the slow remake approach to let them walk away from the CELL debacle. Whether the PS5 can support a full inclusive PS3 emulation doesn't really matter. They just don't have any real reason to bother.
He’s got a point with Xbox. Being able to get a pc, sign into my Microsoft account, download the games I was playing on my console and pick up right where I left off was an awesome experience. Yet for some reason Microsoft wanted to neglect this with Minecraft despite the fact they own mojang and pull all the strings with bedrock. Really annoying.
can you make cut down yields a separate channel? I like the idea of taking interesting bits from your long 2-4 hour videos, they definitely aren't for everyone; but for those who actually watch those videos, seeing a new vid pop up and then have it be something we have already seen isn't the best. Hardware Unboxed has their HUB clips channel for this reason
Not every channel needs to have a separate channel just for for short clips. You can have both on one channel as long as they're clearly labeled. Also I think this is to bring attention to this channel anyway. Making a separate channel would mostly bring views and subs to that other channel.
Sony will sell backwards compatibility on a ps5 pro then 2 years later disable it without notice with a system update. They wanted to do that with ps2 bwc on ps3 too.
I remember hearing about a patent Sony filed on s PS3 emulator even back in the PS4 days. I might be misremembering and it was a PS2 emulator in the PS3 days but either way, its something the PS5 (and in the latter case,PS4) should do easily.
Lack of PS3 compatibility is understandable. However, Sony solved PS1 emulation during the PS2 Slim era. It persisted on PS3 even when PS2 back compat was removed. It should have been standard on PS4 and PS5.
People are forgetting the PS5 Disc drive can't even read CDs. Just like the PS4. So all of the PS1 library will never work on PS4 or PS5. Now DVDs work fine but there are some PS2 games that use CD so those will fail to work.
That's nonsense. PPC to x86 and vice versa were already available for licensing when Apple was still making PPC Macs. Several companies made emulators to get Windows and Windows apps running on Macs. One of those companies, Connectix (who also made a PS1 emulator for PC), was bought by Microsoft. Microsoft previously had experience from the DEC Alpha era, producing a product called FX!32 that pioneered the iterative translation technique used for getting Xbox 360 games onto x86 Xbox. PPC translation to X86, especially when it can be a saved binary and doesn't have to happen in real-time, is no big deal nowadays. The sticking point is, and always has been, the SPEs on the CELL processor that distinguishes it from being a run of the mill PPC CPU. Creating a native x86 runtime that will duplicate the behavior of the SPEs exactly enough for games is painful in the extreme. Emulator projects have been working on it for almost 20 years, since the PS3 launched. Games are very unforgiving apps to get working this way. An app that didn't produce real-time output would be relatively easy. It isn't just PPC. It's CELL and CELL alone that is the problem here. This is why Sony chose to promote remakes as their answer to keeping popular older games in the market for purchase.
@@MooresLawIsDead Xbox layoffs happened years after the majority of 360 ports were made. MS used to have that excess capacity to do things like PPC ports. After blowing over $100 billion in M&A the board at Microsoft wants to see results, hence the massive belt tightening that we've seen. Also note that MS stopped work on new BC titles over a year ago. Its a thing of the past that only could have happened in a free money environment. Conditions are different now.
It wouldn't surprise me if they can since regular people can now emulate it. It's more likely from what I've seen that they want to make the ps online library more appealing buy reselling the games there. Trouble is I don't want the library for play games I already own and would rather emulate or risk using my old ps3 and hope it doesn't bite the dust. It's also a Big reason why PS5 will be my last console, I'm moving solely to PC now.
I don't think PS is working on backwards compatibility atp. Before the PS5 was officially announced, total BC was the most hyped feature. People took it for granted but they werecall fabricated rumors.
Man, I loved Resistance 2, it made me go out and buy Resistance and I got the PSP version one too. Didn't like the game after they killed off the main character.
XBox's BC was half baked. They didn't have 360 Indie Games support with bc, nor 360 Kinnect BC for One even though it was possible to make those games work on One. There are a LOT of XBox Studios games that aren't bc, case in point, Project Sylpheed. WTF is this not bc considering MS published it??????!!!!!!!
Backwards Compatibility would quite literally increase the value of the playstation in a way no one could imagine. but with that logic, they cant give it to you for nothing. they have to milk it beyond realism. subscription based backwards compatibility possibly, or a special version of PS like the Pro.. they make no money from games that have already been sold over a decade ago, and there are no in-game-purchases.. so.. they have zero room for profit other than the Initial Sale.
Yeah I want FULL Backwards Compatibility back like the Father of PlayStation said the purpose of the name PlayStation means. He intended for all new generations of PlayStation to be able to play all last generations of games! Since people complained about spending a small amount of money more for PlayStation 3, Sony lowered the cost by going back on their word. I blame the complainers because they made it sound like it wasn't important to them so that alone tested the waters to kind of forget backwards compatibility even though probably a majority of people wants it.
I think if they had used never Zen Cores for the PS5 Pro or added AVX-512 support to the Zen2 CUs they could have easily make PS3 EMulator, as seen that RCPS3 has a lot of performance gains with AVX-512.
if ps6 won't have ps3 backwards compat then we will know they can do it just don't want to, eventually they have to stop the cloud streaming ps3 rigs they have and if that happens we will either get ps3 backwards compat or never see it ever.
@@btwiusearch2 Tbh PS5 Pro with a Discdrive and PS1/2/3 backwards compatibility would at least sweeten the 800 Euro/880Dollar price tag for us in Europe
Local BC of older gens (last gen BC is a no brainer) doesnt actually push console sales in any meaningful way. If it did, Xbox would have dominated this gen. This is a case of the loud niche minority.
As someone who has wanted BC and complained about it, this is a really good point. Why should they devote the resources for something that doesn't guarantee revenue
I mean, xbox backwards compatibility program was patch based. Not every games would run, but only a select few that could be resold by the original publisher. To be a killer feature, backwards compatibility must work like it did on PS2 and PS3: You put the disc in > the game runs. No matter what game it is. At worst it can run like shit. But it shouldn't be based on patches and deals with the original publisher.
TLDR Sony has it working, but want it to work everywhee the way Microsoft pulled it off on Xbox, and they don't have that working yet. MLID had a source claiming Sony didn't release their PS3 emulator on PS4, so everything else in this conversation is speculation based on that
Ive been thinking this for this entire generation..... Why are they holding it back? Its the best "30th celebration" of Playstation! Ive been predicting them releasing this! Cant see them asking for money for it! BUT more as a GOLD FEATURE tick box for the next PS6!? i mean when you all get portable etc
Back compat makes Sony and Nintendo uncomfortable because it brings up the issue of emulation. I think they see emulation as a gateway drug, if you engage it will lead to worse outcome (piracy).
Tell me how much they don't know what they're doing even though they are console platform leader and made the best games of past generation and this generation (so far). :D
@@sermerlin1 I think you're confusing Sony with Nintendo. Cause it's the Switch that is about to beat the all time record for best selling console currently held by PS2 and it's Nintendo that consistently puts out 9/10 games. Sony being ahead of Xbox has more to do with how badly Xbox screwed up in the last generation and how they continue to screw up this generation.
@@sermerlin1 against what? Redfall, Halo Infinite, and Quantum Break? Sure, they may have "more" releases, but it's BS like Spiderman 2, God of War Ragnarok, Concord, Dustborn, and a bunch of forgotten mediocre franchises like Killzone overall and scam games like Life of Black Tiger. The market is bone dry. At least Xbone has backward compatibility (provided you have an online connection). TLOU 1 and 2 don't need another remaster. Games like Killzone 3 need a remaster.
I won't buy any other Playstation until they make it possible to play my old ps1-3 disc's ,or out them in and get online version of those games I need a old ps2 and ps4 on my desk, I have to keep the ps4 for 3d Bluray and now also the ps5...it consumes more space on the desk than my 85inch TV
guys. ps4 pro you could change the hard drive. thessd on ps5 is soldered ans there is so many ps5s on the used market with damaged ssds and error codes that wont play gamea. i am disgusted with Sony.
PS3 is not an X86 architecture and there are no Cell IBM computers around to my knowledge to develop anything. The development of games in PS3 was painfully slow and time consuming cos it was not a well know architecture with only the PS3 hardware to play with,it was the key to what happened with many games. I do not think today it would be an easy task to made an emulator for PS3 just to run old games. You do not mention any of this and it was the key for Sony to made an X86 console,cos it is dead easy to develop games compared to Cell IBM architecture. It is simple as that.
I think Zen2 with the missing AVX512 is not powerful enough for the known emulation of the CELL processor. The "PC workaround" is probably not feasible on the PS5 Pro. Neither is post processing. Sony should somehow manage to emulate and parallelize the Cell processor via GPU.
