Why Robert Was A Bad King & Ned Didn’t Trust Him - A Game of Thrones 

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The reason Robert and Ned weren't on good terms was because of what Tywin did to the Targaryan children. Ned saw it as a great crime to slaughter the young ones and Robert accepted it as a necessary evil. They fought over this incident and Ned left the capital to go to the tower of joy. He then hid Jons true parentage from everyone because he feared what would happen if Robert were to find out. Similarly the two are at odds on what to do with Dany with Robert strongly in favour of her assassination. Quite likely this is the same reason Ned does not want to share his findings with Robert until he is sure, he fears Robert will put Cerseis children to the sword.

Remember that Robert is also impulsive, rash and prone to blowing up. Ned probably expects his reaction to be completely counterproductive and so considers telling him to be a last resort. Like, if Robert believes Ned about any of this, he would almost certainly escalate all these simmering conflicts pretty hard, which from a rational viewpoint is a really bad idea. Ned wants to do the smart thing, get all the evidence first, move his pieces into position and then act in the most sensible and effective way that has the best chance of avoiding a war. Filling Robert in would almost certainly make this course of action impossible. And it‘s not just Robert, by the way. Ned‘s own brother, Brandon, was very similar, and it got him, and half his family killed *and* started a civil war. If Brandon hadn‘t gone to King‘s Landing to confront the Targaryens over Lyanna‘s alleged kidnapping, everything might have gone very differently. There would be no war, Rhaegar would likely have been king, Ned’s father and brother wouldn’t have died and it‘s possible Lyanna‘s son/children would have grown up as royalty. Ned is probably one of the few people who fully understands this, because he‘s also privy to the nature of Lyanna‘s relationship with Rhaegar. Knowing what he does, Ned probably has massively ambivalent feelings about the Rebellion, and he learned an extremely painful, personal lesson about the consequences of rash action on the political stage. His brother went to confront the court with his accusations, and it got not only him but Ned‘s father and sister killed. I feel confident that one of Ned‘s major motivations will be avoiding a repeat of that, and unfortunately Ned knows that Robert is exactly the kind of guy to cause unnecessary escalations.

Probably Robert should have chosen Stannis as Hand. His no-nonsense approach would have been a good counter balance to Robert's know-nothing approach. But Littlefinger would still have found a way to undermine that create the chaos that he ultimately sought.

If Robert died from his wounds on the trident and Stannis succeeded him and married Cersei then so much shit could have been avoided.

I thought it was made pretty clear. Ned thought Robert would kill the lannister children if he knew they weren't his. That was why he didn't tell Robert.

Jaime and Cersie actually have something of "an idea" why Catelyn abducted Tyrion, afterall Jaime really did try to kill Bran. Jaime readily confirmed the rumours to Catelyn.

I think it’s such an interesting comparison to Robert and Rhaegar. Ned sees Robert still has all the vices he remembered Robert having in his youth especially lust and drink. While the few times Ned thinks back to Rhaegar he never goes out of his way to say or think anything negative about Rhaegar. While passing by brothels Ned even thinks to himself that Rhaegar wasn’t that type.

Stannis would have made a better hand. His rigid devotion to rules and laws makes him trustworthy by default. He also would not hesitate to deal with the Lanisters once he found out what happened. Too bad Robert and Stannis hated each other.

As I was watching, it occurred to me how tone-deaf Robert must have been to ask Ned to rule the whole kingdom for him. Considering that Ned was plagued with doubt over his abilities to be the Lord of Winterfel, never having been trained for it. Even wondering as an established noble what his older brother Brandon might have done in certain pivotal situations. And he *must* have expressed those concerns to Robert during the Rebellion - the last occasion they had spent any real amount of "quality time" together.

I personally don’t blame Ned for what happened, he was average when it came to politics, sure he made mistakes but considering that he was playing the game against Varys and Littlefinger two men who’s morals are practically nonexistent and can lie as easily as they breathe together with Robert’s stubbornness and negligence it is no wonder that things turned out bad. Again he made mistakes of his own but I think most people tend to be too harsh in judging him.

It was smart to not trust an alcoholic, no matter how close you were with him.

But imagine Robert choosing Tywin as his hand. A man with 20+ years experience, both with Seven Kingdoms and with bad-tempered kings, absolutely interested in securing his grandson's rule, with clear understanding who Robert is and who Joffrey is.

I think its obvious why Ned doesn't tell Robert. Ned's position as the Hand already gives him all the authority he needs to investigate Jon Arryn's murder, as well as attempt on Bran's life. All he needs Robert for is to actually punish the Lannisters if/when Ned concludes his investigation and has adequate proof. Robert isn't one for intrigue and Ned knows that. It won't be a subtle investigation anymore. As for Robert being a bad king, I once made a tally of all the Targaryens kings who came before him and compared them to Robert. I'd say he's better than at least half of them.

I feel that Ned is NOT as unqualified as people think. He sees through Tywin's plan in a second and declares him enemy of the state. Plus he does not have "carte blanche" like Cregan had. Let Ned pull Ice and he had a VERY solid chance of solving everything.

I think Robert killing Lady (Sansa’s wolf) proved that Cersei could make Robert choose her and her family’s will over Ned’s. Plus later, Robert admits to knowing it was wrong. I get Ned’s reluctance towards saying anything else against the Lannisters after that.

Your question of “I don’t see why Ned is reluctant to say anything” can be answered with two things. The first Ned saw Robert’s reaction when Tywin brought him the bodies rapped in Lannister cloakes. Relieved is what he saw. And two is the scene where Ned says “the Robert I knew wouldn’t have trembled at the thought of an unborn child” The simplest way to put it is Robert changed and Ned saw it.

It is easier to fool a man than convince him he's been fooled.

In retrospect Robert turned out to be the best king in the entire series.

Hope you do more Ned and Robert chapters there really interesting to me and hope you do more

I think you're over looking the fact that Robert is like a stranger to ned now. The old robert he knew is different from the current robert and ned acknowledges this. Cat even said so to Ned and after Robert threatens to have Ned killed after her quits being the hand he himself comes to this conclusion. So he was pretty reluctant to tell Robert anything because he didn't really know Robert anymore

Robert needed a foe to crush, Tywin would’ve kept him busy till the winter then Robert would’ve crushed The Others. Less of a story and more of a slaughter.

Great video. Bobby B deserves way more blame for how shit things were. Subbed

Hot take. Robert’s reign would have mostly been fine if he didn’t marry Cersei.

Sack of King's Landing is what severed Ned's trust in Robert. I mean, Robert starts a rebellion for your family's honor and then joins the group late to the rebellion against you? Ned had a ton to think about, and if it didn't further his Jon Aryn investigation, he wouldn't have been hand. The Greyjoy rebellion made Robert think he could disrespect Ned and still keep him.

I think the reason Ned was holding back was simply because he knew Robert was incompetent and negligent so Ned wanted to to investigate fully before bringing it to Robert with a complete story.

I don't necessarily think Ned is hidimg his true feelings from Robert. He's made his displeasure and disagreement known plenty of times without reservation precisely because they have a strong, brotherly friendship. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I kind of assumed that watching Robert's six was implied in the request to become the new Hand. Robert may or may not have suspected murder, but he chose Ned to replace Jon because he knew that he cohld trust him to have his back and sniffing out any funny business in his court. I think it's fair to say that there's some reservation while Ned tried to get a feel for who his friend became after all these years, but I don't think he ever acted with the intent of keeping things that Robert needed to know from him. He didn't know if he could trust him not to want to kill Cersei and her children, but he did plan on telling him the truth regardless. He just wanted to make extra sure that he had proof and, rather foolishly, though I get the impulse, he wanted Cersei and her children to be able to escape reprecussions. The whole reason he confronted Cersei was because he was planning on telling Robert the truth about the findings of his investigation and didn't want the deaths of her children on his conscience in case Robert tried anything. The only reason he didn't tell Robert about Cersei is because Robert had his "accident," and Ned didn't want his last moments to be discovering that his children aren't really his and that he diesn't have any rightful heirs. As far as Lysa's message is concerned, he absolutely made the right decision about not telling Robert. Even if he trusted him completely without reservation, it still would have been wise not to share that piece of information until he actually had something to back it up. Even if Ned had nothing to fear from Robert by telling him about Lysa's accusations, which I don't think he would if he lresented compelling evidence, Cersei is a threat. If she didn't pose a threat to him, which I don't entirely believe considering how filled with Lannister men King's Landing was, she would absolutely be a threat to Lysa and the Vale, especially if Ned sprung these accusations on Robert without enough evidence to back his claim. You don't go around defaming your kings and queens without damming, undeniable evidence unless you want to lose your head, go to prison for life, or see that fate bappen to other people, and even then, you don't know what kind of blowback might come of it even if you do have evidence. Sometimes it is just better to let sleeping dogs lie. Ned was doing the right thing by investigating Jon's death privately because he needed to verify and connect more dots before he could even consider telling the truth and presenting his case safely and responsibly. The problem is that Robert got killed and Ned quickly got arrested and beheaded soon afterward before he could actually finish his investigation. All he was able to put together was that Jon had discovered that Cersei's children were bastards before he was likely murdered, but that isn't the same as proof that he had been murdered on Lannister ordsrs or that there weren't other parties involved, assuming it was even the Lannisters like he assumed in the first place. He was basically only 2/3-3/4 of the way done before he got taken out. Ned definitely made mistakes, but I wouldn't call him stupid. The only blatantly foolish decision was warning Cersei, but that was less Ned thinking it was a good idea as much as it was his conscience getting the better of him. Regardless of how prudent talking to her turned out to he, he knew Robert didn't care that the Martell children had been slaughtered by the Mountain and desperately wanted to avoid the possibilify of that happening again, and worse, being personally implicated and guilty of indirect participation. At most, he underestimated Littlefinger's treachery, but that wasn't naivete as much as it was chosing to trust his wife's judgment, which he frankly shouldn't have done. Even then, however, there's good reason to believe that Petyr wouldn't have betrayed Ned if he actually took his and Renly's advice about the right course of action. Whatever petty reasons that may have contributed to which side Petyr fell on at the end of the day, landing on the winning side was his ultimate goal. Ned chose the wrong play, so he acted accordingly. Ned was never stupid because he made all of the right decisions to the extent that he was able and had enough good information to make them. What people mistake for stupidity is just the fact that he was out of his element. Besides, Cat's stupid decision to abduct Tyrion had just as much to do with causing his demise.

In my opinion Ned’s reluctance to confide in Robert before the hunt comes from his caution. He can see that both himself and Robert are both getting angry and could easily lose their temper with each other and so either Robert could get so angry with Ned he’ll side with the Lannister’s or the more likely worry that if Robert is angry with a ned who can’t leave his bed then Robert might kill Cersei and her children without ned being able to stop him

The Lannisters would manipulate the situation no matter who was Hand or sat the Iron Throne. Murdering a king or The Hand or both, if necessary.

As wild as it is, he was easily the best King on the show

'Ned didn't trust Robert' Ned's father, big brother, and little sister all perish as a result of the actions of the Mad King (Lyanna not directly but as a result of the war the Mad King's actions precipitated) but for some reason it's called ROBERT's Rebellion. Obviously that rolls off the tongue a bit better than Ned's Rebellion but still I've always found that odd. In addition, when Ned confronts Cersei she considers his decision not to claim the Iron Throne for himself as a mistake, and Ned admits he's made many mistakes in his life but THAT was not one of them. We can read that multiple ways but in the context that it was called Robert's Rebellion I think Ned felt it was Robert's mistake. I think both of these are clues that Ned and Robert's relationship were fractured as a result of Robert's selfishness and opportunism. Like if my best friend lost half his family overnight I would be a shitty best friend to make it all about me. I think this is at least a factor in why Ned didn't trust Robert and why Robert was so up himself and oblivious to it.

I still loved king 👑 Robert as a character 😎

Ned was a good administrator and probably would have been a good Hand under a better ruler.

Ned didn't understand how political maneuvering worked, he thought the people he was talking to were actually there to serve the king and not just themselves

You just do not tell a man that his wife is screwing her brother and his children aren't his own.....not without some evidence.

Stannis would have been a better Hand than Ned

Ned should have flushed the council. They are absolutely negligent, littlefinger cant run the bank..Reny is a waste of rations , Viseries, well......headman .edit. also replace Stannis with Balon Greyjoy as master of ships etc.....

Robert was a horrible king, but Ned was horrible at almost everything. Hand, father, husband, politician. Dude could swing a sword…and that was about it.

The War of Five Kings wouldn't have been possible if not for Robert Baratheon.

I feel that Game of Thrones starting with Ned’s failure as a hand and House of the Dragon beginning with Viserys failing as a King is intentional. Had these two men done almost anything differently without fear of hurting their name and the people they love, their shows end in the first season. Ned refusing to listen to the people around him tell him how to play the Game and not trusting in Robert enough to do things the way Ned wanted to cost them their lives. He was too late. Viserys comes much closer after pushing things back and ignoring problems that didn’t have a compromise, he realizes literally on his deathbed that the only way to fix this problem is to bring the families together and make them WANT to compromise and live as a cohesive force. But once he dies that night, again it’s too late. Fire and Blood rain down because they never truly felt like a family with one another.

Ned doesn't make noise because of Jon...if Ned can learn who really fathered the 'Baratheon' kids...then they can figure out WHO Jon IS. And a few other kids. THAT is what Ned was thinking. Something people are ignoring is WHY doesn't Ned hate Aerys for killing his dad and brother but DOES hate on Jaime for killing Aerys? ALL of this is carefully written...NONE of this is a plot-hole or a mistake. It IS just as INSANELY wonderful as it reads to be. NONE of these 'people' are who they seemto be on the surface story. There is ANOTHER story under the surface story playing out in text.

Robert lasted almost 20 years as king. He was terrific!

Robert was a good knight but a bad king

Bobby B was the goat, Azor Ahai, the prince that was promised, you can't convince me otherwise.

What if Robert had chose stannis as his Hand?

Who would have been the best hand of the king after John Arryn for Robert?

Ned would have been an awesome king

If they worked it out on the spot it would have made for a boring story.... the end happily ever after.

Ned should have told Robert for sure. He may have learned that Robert already knows Joeffrey is not his. I don't think he cares. All Baratheons and his illegitimate children have black hair. Cercie's first born had black hair. There is no way Robert would not question three blond haired children. He simply did not want to deal with it.

Fair but Ned was a shit hand who trusted all the wrong people.

Catlyn ruined evvvvvvvvvvreeeething!!!

The things that always confused me was that apparently Robert, and no one around Robert, betrothed his three children to secure alliances at the end of the war. Joffrey should have married into the tulleys, so that the future lords Robb and Robin would be his cousins in law and the future lord of the riverlands would be (hopefully) his brother in law, and then Myrcella could marry into Dorne with him making amends for the death of Elia. Even Renly wasn't married, and he should have organised his marriage to a lesser noble house to minimise his influence. So many alliances only happen after Robert's death, as though he was preventing them from happening. And Tommen totally should have been married to Shireen: with Stannis and Renly unlikely to have any more children, it would have been an amazing way to (hopefully( keep both dragonstone and the stormlands loyal.

If Ned was king, the Lannisters would have been dealt with, LittleFinger's plans/schemes would have been thwarted and Dany and Ned would have made a truce, securing the safety of the realm. The only real issue might lie in Jon Snow's legitimate claim to the throne, which I suspect Dany would have outright rejected. Since Ned would be the king, he could probably beat Dany using a grand army, but he would have made a truce with her to team up against the night king.

Honestly Ned and Robert were bad rulers in their perspective view points both were naive in politics and didn’t get into the meat and bones of the game of thrones Robert didn’t want to rule and Ned honor system is just plain ineffective he could of prevent the war of 5 kings and succession crisis by telling what happens and not trusting Cersei or little finger and Robert should of did is job and not run from is duties leading to his demise and plunging the realm to war honestly he should of let Stannis king or left the targaryeans alone to rule cause his council was just so corrupt and no one viewed his intelligent or feared as the targs I wish he would of married somone else.

Except the realm was at peace most of his rule.

Robert kept the realm peaceful for over 20 years, and even if he made some mistakes, its not completely his fault when no one tells him anything. Had all his servants fullfilled their duty and actually told him whats going on, he wouldve made quick work with his enemies and saved the realm. He is king, and even though he stayed out of the everyday business as much as possible, Im sure he thought people would tell him if there were some serious threats like a potential war, conspiracies to kill him etc. Varys for example was the Master of whisperers, and all he did was sabotaging him.

Don't conflate being a bad man and being bad at the Game of Thrones to being a bad king. Robert Baratheon was a bad man, and bad at the Game of Thrones, but he was a great King. He deposed the Mad King, who ruled for 19 years, and ended the Targaryen dynasty of 3 centuries. He married Cersei Lannister to ensure stability, even though he loved Lyanna Stark. There were a lot of political decisions that insured more stability after he was crowned king, such as pardoning former enemies, as well as rewarding his brothers and supporters. Robert Baratheon ruled for 15 years, incurring a lot of debt because of Littlefinger, but Jon Arryn as his Hand should have reeled Robert back. In that time, there were no rebellions, and there was no hunger in the Seven Kingdoms. There was peace for 15 years. Now that is the mark of a great king.