Karolina is one character who never speaks from the gutter, she is always highly polished and professional, no matter the stress level. Jess too, but as a more minor character.
To be fair, Karolina muttered a few choice expletives when Ken went off script during the press conference S2 finale, but your point is still well taken.
This show is insanely well written and acted. Roman's breakdown at the funeral was tough to watch, but very well performed by Kieran Culkin, showing that Roman is trauma bonded to Logan, and desperate to win his approval.
Well the trauma bonding have been quite clear since.. forever in the show but the biggest thing in the scene was Roman acting before the funeral like Logan hadn't even died. Even at the boat he was going: "He's not dead, he's not really dead, he's not dead." Dissociated from it because it was just too painfull and well, it finally became very real in the funeral. The worst place In His Shoes to start and work it out. For example Shiv especially, for hormones added on (pregnancy) cried in work, "scheduled her grief" but atleast went thru it. Roman was very nonchalant if not the Mattson meeting and then finally collapsed at the funeral. It kinda does go to the more trauma you have more mind will propably put it off and the show have in every way hinted that Roman had it worst as they were kids. Working out thru Logan dying opens a lot other doors aswell to go thru.
To me, the thing about the dialogue that makes it feel so realistic is that, unlike with some other dialogue-heavy dramas, everyone on Succession has their own distinct way of speaking. Not just what they say and how, but when they choose to speak. There's some overlap, some general parlance and imitation, but you can tell who's talking without seeing or hearing them. Because of this, when Roman sounds like a snarky movie villain, you kinda buy it because it's just how he sounds. My favorite of the dialogue ticks is when less powerful characters, like Tom and Greg, switch their tones drastically between "ruthless, insensitive & dominant" and "sweet, innocent & accommodating" depending on who they're talking to. Not remarkable in itself, but the fact that you never hear Logan or his kids do this despite any fakeness, backpedaling, or weaseling on their part is really impressive.
That's a fascinating detail I never focused on. The Roys really do seem to never have a pretend-nice side, because for the most part, they've never had to kiss up/pretend to be nice to anyone.
Some of its kinda cringe. Example, the amount of “ I’m good “ or “ Your good” reminds me of high school & “ The Box set death March “ metaphor in season 1 towards the wedding arc, was like wtf? Lol, they go overly dramatic sometimes.
i think your point about the realism of their stuttering, interrupting, repeating, etc. and how it makes such rotten people more likeable is so real! and i think it's also a reason why when the characters break out of that stuttering realism, e.g. during Ewan's eulogy, it hits that much harder by contrast. this also made me realize that the only major character i can think of who doesn't speak this way is jess! love her so much!
Watching this I realize Jess never cursed, even in the scene when she was relaying Logan and Kendals curse laden messages to each other, I think it’s a metaphor. Jess is the only character who seems effected by Menchen’s electiom rather than using it to plot or advance herself and she’s stayed an outsider doing the bidding of the Roy’s but never taking on their machinations or ambitions as every other non 1% character has.
The intersection of realism + hyperrealism is such an interesting point that hits the nail on the head. Love how you always manage to find new angles to my favorite things. Great work as always!
Great observation about the writers clear intent on being hyper realistic, I haven’t seen the show but you’ve peaked me my interest. Looking at the immediate attention this video received, it seems like your audience will find your new videos no matter how often you post! I’m always impressed by your precise analysis! You’ve got a natural ability to see the mechanics of filmmaking but your true gift is creating strong associations so viewers can quickly make the connections so we’re more likely inclined to agree with your perspective, or at least respect your opinion, because we believe in your authority on the subject based on your deep understanding greater than that of our own! Your questions always leave me thinking more about your ideas👏🤔 Thanks for sharing!
Don't feel bad about not sticking to a precise schedule. I know that's one of those sacred truths, but speaking as someone who consumes A LOT of YT videos, I value quality more than consistency. Yes, there are a few shows that I know the creator uploads every week on a specific day and I look forward to it. But I also have some creators that upload when they have something to say. I don't think there's only one path. Of course, I'm sure the YT algorithm rewards consistent uploads and I know you must keep an eye on that. But that's different from feeling bad about letting your audience down. If anything, I am more likely to sub AND ask for notifications when I like a creator but I don't know when they will post next. And I'm more excited to watch.
Thank you for this; it does bring me some comfort to hear it. But as you said, it is also a matter of the algorithm's obsession with consistency. I feel I'm still too small to have cultivated an audience who likes my content enough to watch it whenever it drops (no matter how late), so until then, I must grind. Thank you again!
Although completely different New Girl also had a natural rhythm with the actors speaking that I had never noticed before but have looked for and appreciated ever since.
I recall the writers of 'Deadwood' using profanity as a means of conveying to the audience the filth and stench of a 19th cent. 'boom town'. It was a way of using one sense to 'offend' another. Nice take on a great series, and its use of language.
Great video man have high hopes for your channel! (One critique would be the song in the background sounds like a charger being taken off and on a phone its a bit annoying on the ears though brother)
I appreciate the Sorkin mention because The Social Network is one of my favourite films and definitely the style Succession went for is very similar. I wasn't actually expecting to be captured the way Succession did, when I gave a go to Newsroom, which I trusted just on the brand name of Sorkin... but that really wasn't managing to be interesting (I think i only watched 3 episodes at best)
As a father of young child, I've become very carefuly with cursing (and given the amount of cursing I used to do I am impressed of myself) and I am really noticing when on TV (or real life) cursing is misused. It really grates on me (having had some phantasies of being a writer myself I pay particular attention to these styling choices) when this happens... but in the case of Succession it didn't bother me. And I came to the same conclusion that it makes you feel inside a bubble where this makes sense. Also there is an aspect about the actual pace/rythm of dialogue, which is very fast and responsive, so you're just transported and before you can internalise something gross Rom says, Shiv has already come back, and so on.
For me I kinda like when they curse as u said it makes it more realistic and also because when they start talking about shareholders and stock and all that stuff I find it hard to keep up. 😅
It is! That's actually an aspect I forgot to touch on; the realism that comes from there never being circumstances of forced exposition. They never bother to explain anything to us, which makes the situations all the realer.
I'm super happy I got into it as the last season was being aired. It meant I was able to binge it without any interruption. It sucked me in completely like not really any other show did since early GoT and Breaking Bad.
Yessss! Glad you enjoyed it, I was excited to see what you thought of it, it definitely fit the bill as the sort of show you'd enjoy. I'm glad someone else picked up on the amount of flubbed lines or dialogue it has, it always annoys me that scripts always have everyone talking perfectly and without fault and always communicating exactly what they mean all the time. People just don't talk like that. People are messy and neurotic and disorganised, and so is Succession's dialogue. Also, can we just acknowledge that S04E08 is one of the greatest episodes of TV ever written? It felt like it had been penned with Armando Iannucci's brain matter. Thanks for the shout out, and keep up the good work!
I think quite a bit of succession episodes are some of the best ever for sure🤝I just wanted to ask where would you rank succession on your personal all time best shows list. Because it’s top ten for me lass. From 1-10 I got The wire Game of thrones Mr robot Dark The boys Breaking bad Stranger things Sopranos Succession Dexter. So succession comes in at 9 all time for me
Thank you so much for giving me that finally push to watch it! It's been both an enjoyable and valuable experience. Total agree for all you said about speech and dialogue! Also, I'm glad to see you've stuck around. Appreciate ya!
I think the soft spot of this show that wins over another franchise is that the dialogues really sound like actual human being talking to each other. In some great franchises, the writing was great but the dialogues felt so heavily designed to look cool and unnatural as hell. Just look at Breaking Bad/ Better Call Saul “I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM THE DANGER! A guy opens his door and gets shot and you’d think that of me? No. I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS!” “Someone has to protect this family from a guy who protects this family.” “You are the smartest guy I’ve ever met and you are too stupid to see, he made up his mind ten minutes ago.” “You and your pride and your ego. You just had to be the man. If you do your job, know your place, we would all be fine right now.” “Jimmy, you are always down.” “Kim, doing this? It’s not you. You wouldn’t be okay with it. Not until the cold light of the day.” “Wouldn’t I?” These are all from pivotal moments of these characters but it sounds so fabricated as hell, as if these characters were trying to make a statement to the audience, comparing to Succession’s dialogue, which is far more natural and the only time it feels like a gospel was when Logan said that “I love you but you are not serious people”.
Yes, precisely, Joseph. 100% agree. For me, even when Logan said that iconic line, it felt real; it fit naturally into the flow of the conversation that came before it, and the mere addition of "I love you", the recognition of emotion, gave it a sense of humanity that really made it feel natural.
They way the character speak is alot like Peep Show. When you said it balanced realism, much like Peep Show. Same writer. It goes with The Thick of It too.
Thank you so much and welcome to the family! Honestly, I blasted through the first season in like, 3 days, then took my time through the rest, but yes, I made it my mission to catch up to season 4 before it ended, and luckily, I did!
The dialogue is actually unrealistic and the writers dropped the ball on believing that rich people actually speak like this. While there will inadvertently be locker room talk, they speak like normal people. Succession has been successful in portraying archetypal myths surrounding the rich. Rich people are just people with lots of money. The dialogue in Succession is cheesy.
Completely agree with everything u said. Tho one thing that gives me the absolute ickk in their dialogue is Ronan’s sex jokes with shivv like idkk its weirddd
Interesting you say that because I’m about to start watching deadwood!! Even though I know it was unfortunately canceled. But I’ve heard great reviews about it. Without spoilers what are some great aspects about deadwood and would you say it’s one of the best shows you’ve seen?
@@raymondsims7042 So for starters, the language. Just really beautiful, colorful, evocative Shakespearean language. Complex syntax, lots of subordinate clauses, lots of allusions and metaphors. A beautiful mixture of blunt and vulgar speech with highflown, aspirational, poetic discourse. And the characters are well drawn and interesting. The cast is outstanding. Watching them grow and learn to work together. It's actually the anti-Succession--a townful of dysfunctional people who gradually learn to function together. To trust each other, to cooperate, forge bonds. Lots of great thematic material (as is typical of the genre, I guess): manifest destiny, capitalism v. the little guy, freedom v. government, civilization v. savagery. The past v. the future ("Fuck the future!" "You do not fuck the future, Sir, the future fucks you!"). Religion. Grifting. Innocence and purity. Childhood trauma/(sexual) abuse. Just chock full of rich thematic material developed beautifully. It's got an incredible emotional range. Deep pathos. Oh, and it's funny af. Lots and lots of dark humor. For me it's right up there with The Sopranos, Mad Men, The Wire, Breaking Bad, and Succession. (Although in that list, Breaking Bad is the one show I think I've only actually seen twice through. The others I've all watched too many times to count.)
@@raymondsims7042 Actually, yeah, Deadwood is a lot like The Wire in that Deadwood is the central character. It's an ensemble piece that tries to show us social dynamics and how those dynamics feed into creating community (or not).
@@babylonian.captivity alright sounds great!! I appreciate the thorough non spoiler analysis and praise you gave to the show. I’m on it in the next couple of days🤝
I'm genuinely not saying this to be a dick, but after 9 minutes and 11 seconds (heheh) I still have no idea why Succession's DIalogue 'works.' The arguments seem as hollow and shallow and generic as a lot of the corpo-dialogue of Succession.
I'm genuinely not saying this to be a dick, but I think I did a decent, in-depth job of explaining why I think it works, and I do believe that if you completely missed all of that, then it's a you problem.
Not sure by "maker" you mean the video creator (me), but if you do... This is the second time I've had my voice compared to Dracula on here, and I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad lol, but thank you nevertheless!
If Rachel is getting kudos for a recommendation (great shout Rachel!), can I put one forward for your consideration too? Mr Inbetween (Disney+) is sublimely good and I’d put it right up there with The Wire and The Sopranos for apogee TV. It’s only 3 seasons long and each episode is only 25 mins long, but quite how they get so much story into such a short run time is beyond me. It excels in the maxim of “show, don’t tell”. The entire thing is written by the guy who plays the central character….and he’s never acted before…but when I tell you his portrayal of Ray is as grounded and authentic as Gandolfini gave us for Tony, there’s no hyperbole. It’s dark, poignant and that rarest of things in good TV…it’s clever-funny. This is a genuine masterpiece of great writing, casting and direction and I’d strongly urge you to at least check out the opening episode to see for yourself, and it’ll take less than half an hour out of your day! Here’s a flavour of what to expect ; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FEFd9MNnMLc.html
