Why Sydney Still Needs Sydney Trains 

Rapid transit will never happen on the Northern Beaches because the people living up there don't want their part of Sydney to be easily accessible from the rest of the city. They have always resisted and feel that the current B Line bus services from the city service the area's needs well enough. The resistance to train services to that part of Sydney is one of the reasons that has earned it the name the insular peninsular.

As someone from Sydney, I'd also add that a big reason metro has been favoured over suburban trains is a goal to crush the transport unions. Since metro is driverless, that means no unionised drivers, so lower union influence overall. Maybe the new Labor government may take a different view, but this was a driving factor for the planning by the previous government

As a Sydney resident, I've been reduced to just being happy that something actually gets built. The recent(ish) history has been full of announced projects (sometimes reannouced at that) that never happen. This, of course, included the link from Epping to Parramatta, that was originally part of the Chatswood to Parramatta line (of which, as the video indicates, the Chatswood to Epping section has been converted to metro).

The baffling part of the airport is that the leppington lines weren't extended. They're literally within spitting distance from the airport and if the metro goes down which happens on weekends there would still be a reliable train service to the city

As someone who has lived in Sydney all my life, I can say you’ve done your research, great video Reece 👏🏻 in my opinion there needs to be a northern Beaches Metro, Mr Bradfield, the man who built the Sydney harbour bridge and the Sydney underground train network had plans to build to the northern beaches but due to a world war and lack of money, it never happened. I also believe Sydney’s Legacy network to Bondi Junction needs to be extended to Bondi beach, down and around to Randwick, Maroubra, East Gardens and back up to Redfern and Central, affectively making another Sydney loop line. It seems like the smartest plan to use the line we already have and to make it much better

Fantastic points here. Completely agree. As an infrastructure planner in transport planning in Sydney, it’s becoming difficult to encourage investment into Sydney Metro and Sydney Trains as the costs are absurd. The problem is that all our land released and re-zoning is occurring before infrastructure planning happens, so there is a significant misalignment in infrastructure identification and delivery and actual development.

Great Video Reece! The reason Sydney Trains isn't getting expanded is 3 main things. The government wants to focus on Sydney Trains meeting their targets which are set by Transport for NSW (TfNSW). 1. In 2017 TfNSW set the current timetable which absolutely maxed out the headways, to the point that if passengers delayed boarding, trains would run late. This is evidenced by Sydney Trains meeting their on time running KPI's during the COVID lockdowns, but not meeting is when normal patronage is in play. There was no give if a train left 10 seconds late, then the next train would be late, so on and so forth until a 5 or 10 minute delay stacked up that was unrecoverable. Off peak gaps need to look at to allow the timetable space to recovery should the infrastructure or rollingstock or customer impact (think security, public safety, and yes, slow boarding customers etc) occur. 2. Reliability, while recently the infrastructure reliability has been improving dramatically, some of the infrastructure is still 100 years old. Stitching together the patchwork of 100 year old, 50 year old, 30 year old, 20 year old, 10 year old and new infrastructure more than already has been done with current upgrades to try to get Sydney Trains to adopt European Train Control Systems (ETCS) and not the home grown interim plan that was started 20 years ago Automatic Train Protection (ATP). The network needs to remove it's maintenance backlog and remove improve long term infrastructure reliability with improved preventative maintenance regimes. While the company can chew gum and walk at the same time, you can't add a whole new line to the situation as this would soak up much needed resources (a lot of which, including some of the best and brightest have already gone to Sydney Metro) 3. Drivers and labour inputs. The reason metro is put in place rather than Sydney Trains is honestly, the years of industrial action and strike that have been going on. The current Government is a pro-labour movement political party. Even it is apprehensive to put of the the mass transport system under the influence or control of these bodies. Unfortunately public transport in Australia is very political, and the labour movements are beholden to their members, not the travelling public, for better and for worse (please note I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just saying it has good and bad for the wider community). Driverless trains remove both Guards and Drivers from Sydney's Train system. Essentially, mass movement with 2 less labour inputs per train. None of these 3 reasons are insurmountable, but all of them individually add up and combine into an environment where expansion of the existing network is just not on the cards, politically, or from a capability perspective. Give it 5 years and hopefully all of the above will be resolved enough to move forward. The above list is not exhaustive, just the 3 top issues in my opinion.

Great video! You did a very good job of articulating the issues with the government's current attitude of "all new lines should be metro because metro is modern" as opposed to actually choosing the right tool for the job and expanding Sydney Trains where it makes sense.

Sydneysider here. Headways can be improved by the new automated signalling system they are trialing. We will get to 24 trains per hour eventually.

The real reason is that metro requires no driver and no guard. NSW Treasury wants the running costs lower.

The reason why Sydney trains is double deckers is because the suburban trains share track with Freight and interstate rail so its not possible to increase to metro frequency but you can instead increase train capacity. Which is why Western Sydney Airport metro is a huge missed opportunity. It should of been part of a new north-south Greater Western and 2nd Hawkesbury crossing freight corridor that uses Sydney Double deck passenger trains that work well sharing track with freight. That way freight can be taken off the T1 Western and the T9 Northern, Bypassing the choked Parramatta-Strathfield corridor and the narrow Strathfield-Hornsby corridor which isn't completely quad tracked. This can also complete the not yet planned St Marys-Schofields service. Then with freight out of the way you can transition western and northern line suburban all-stops services to metro rolling stock and frequency and repurpose the double deckers for more NSW Trainlink Services to make a V-line/RER Intercity service into the Tablelands and Campbelltown-Goulburn-Canberra using the existing Intercity and regional lines which can then be made medium-speed with rail straightening and track duplications. With the freighters gone there is also more room for night trackwork and maybe late night services

Thank-you for this video. As a former New South Welshman, watching our city seemingly abandon our wonderful suburban rail network is heartbreaking. I completely agree that SydneyTrains needs to end its love affair with double-deckers. They'd be perfect for express subruban and intercity trips, but the more frequent all-stops services should be single-deck trains. Now I'm imagining some single-deck trains with a SydneyTrains design and livery. They would look so cool.

What I find promising for Sydney Trains’ future is the signalling upgrades to the network to enable 24 trains per hour. T4 is the first line being upgraded, and is already an isolated line operationally, so the future Tangara replacement will be a perfect opportunity to run it as more of a metro.

Happily surprised that you covered this. Unfortunately there is a bit of a political football going on with the sydney rail systems, with a lot of disdain being thrown towards drivers and their union, which makes the driverless metro much more appealing to your average sydneysider.

I'm visiting Sydney in March 2024 and can't wait to use these trains! I still think regional/suburban trains have a place in the age of metros, particularly covering the larger distances metros can't as easily.

WHOOHOO ANOTHER RMTRANSIT AUSTRALIA VIDEO THIS IS A GOOD DAY

4:04 small correction. The Redfern second concorse project was finished about a month ago, and it's really great!

Unions or not, I think trains being increasingly automated are a worldwide trend. Sydney Metro is similar to Paris Metro's Line 14, which is meant to be long distance automated metro. Also worth noting is that I think AU has been considered to have some of the highest labour costs, so there are incentives to save on that regardless. It's more the complexity of the existing network being the obstacle to automation.

Operating single level carriages on the Sydney airport line would be marvelous. My family and flew to Sydney at the beginning of the year and while the service is excellent, the rolling stock isn't. Carrying luggage up or down a level from the vestibule, while train is moving is cumbersome and potentially dangerous, as there are no heavy luggage racks. Doing while shepherding children is a feat in itself and of course, no one is prepared to relinquish their vestibule seat to assist travellers…take stock of their surroundings, observe the stations at which you're arriving, to ensure you don't miss your stop, and just catch your breath.

Another great video Reece, it's great to see someone from overseas doing so much homework on our railway network! One challenge with reintroducing single deck trains is that one some lines, outer suburban express trains use the same track pairs as inner city all stops trains. If you converted inner city lines to single deck, but left the outer suburban lines with double deck, you'd have two different pieces of rolling stock on the same line (with different acceleration and different dwell times). This would be a nightmare for signaling. It's for this reason that Sydney trains has decided to stick with the same rolling stock for both purposes. Take the T4 line for example. I'd love to see single deck all stops services running from Bondi Junction to Hurstville - and south of Redfern that might actually be possible right now because they run on separate tracks. But at present, all of the double deck Cronulla and South Coast services all also go through the same track pair on the eastern suburbs line tunnels to Bondi Junction. Realistically it would mean that between Redfern and Bondi Junction, the single deck trains would have to operate at speeds and headways similar to what the double deck trains could do, until the line separates beyond Redfern. That's probably not worth it.

This young lad doing the videos, has a better understanding of our rail system in Australia, than any of our transport ministers state and federal, and he doesn't even live here. Maybe they should be advised by this lad, and not the pretenders they have in their departments. He's certainly in tune with our transport psychi. I'm 72 now, and get where this lad is at completely. And that is the trick, tuning into the psychi of the people who use transport in whatever country. Come to Australia lad, and live here. A fresh pair of eyes won't hurt our pollies one bit. 🙂

Redfern’s upgrade is open now. Excellent finish of the project, but unfortunately hard to integrate platform 11&12 (T4).

Great video RM. And I agree with you - the new Airport line should have been an extension of the Sydney Rail Leppington line, and should have introduced single-deck carriages. Ironically for your suggestion at 6:00 to use mixed rolling stock - Sydney used to have this. I'm old enough to have ridden around in the Tulloch cars that were mixed in with the single deck red rattlers when I was a kid, and that setup worked pretty well. As for the Epping to Chatswood line - it was a shockingly bad piece of planning. Not only did it dive too deep (thanks to people protesting about a needed bridge over a river nearby), but it could only run at 4 trains per hour since at either end it met a higher capacity line that was already fully utilised. Once it was converted to metro it could be fully used, and now one of the stations (Macquarie Uni) is in the top 20 busiest on the network

Great video I really enjoyed it! I’m a Sydneysider but live in Melbourne.. Sydney trains are a marvel and I can’t imagine what the city will look like in 20 years Keep it up!

if you look up Bradfield he had plans for a line up to the northern beaches, and down the eastern suburbs, now its too late >

Automated trains in Sydney means less employees - transport workers are highly unionised, so it's about getting rid of the people. It's mostly political. Thanks for the Sydney love, Reece!

The Sydney Trains network needs to split into inner-city routes and outer suburbs routes. For example, the T2 line comprises three separate routes that share segments of the line. The T2 Inner West line could more frequently operate on a single-deck train infrastructure. Similarly, the T8 line comprises an inner-city line and an outer-suburban line that share track segments. The NSW Government is looking at a new train fleet to replace the 40-year-old Tangara train fleet. It could be possible to re-introduce single-deck trains then. The area that will need to be addressed is to create more lines in the City Circle route to create more capacity.

The other really bad thing about the new airport metro line - IS NOT COMPATIBLE with current Scholfields - Chatswood metro!!! Like WTF??? It uses AC where as the current metro uses DC? So not even close? Why would anyone think this was a good idea? It's the same with the Dulwich Hill light rail is not compatible with the Randwick one? I don't know about the Carlingford to Westmead light rail or the Parramatta to City metro yet, I can only hope thru some random luck they are at least compatible with one of the existing/proposed services?

This video was needed so bad. Great job

There is a reason why, the st marys line is gonna combine with the metro west at a later stage of westmead to sydney being extended to st marys

I feel the Sydney Metro has a better ride experience because it feels faster than Sydney Trains with its faster acceleration. Maybe a better comparison would be the Chinese metros which usually have lines ranging from 40-80km.

As long as Sydney Trains run the SCO to Wollongong and Kiama and CGN to Newcastle and the central coast, It'll always have a place that metro 100% cannot fill. Also big up on the point that there isn't enough focus on the western Sydney developments. Makes visiting my mates out there way harder than it needs to be lmao

Retired Sydney planner here. I'm not sure that you're aware that the St Marys - Western Sydney Airport metro line is the first stage of a metro line connecting from the NW Metro at Tallawong to Macarthur in Sydney's SW. The new airport serves Western Sydney and the planned metro system connecting it is oriented towards western, NW and SW Sydney, a region containing half the population of Greater Sydney. Western Sydney's capital is Parramatta which, like Sydney, has been there since 1788 and is nowadays close to the population and geographical centre of Greater Sydney. Fast connection with the eastern half of Sydney will be through West Metro (which will ultimately extend to Western Sydney Airport) and, in the future, connection of the SW (Bankstown) metro line to Liverpool, but Western Sydney is developing as a pretty autonomous economic region of its own, but we can see in the comments on this video that a lot of people don't understand that Western Sydney is a major city in its own right and their minds are focussed on the "old city" vs the "outer suburbs", not realising that the "outer suburbs" have become a new city in their own right - as the planners now intend. Secondly, double deck trains are terrible for airport services, as Sydney already experiences with the existing Sydney Airport line. With crowds packed around the limited door vestibules, it's extremely difficult to take luggage into the tiny at-level floor areas. They are also quite hopeless at loading and unloading crowds and have long dwell times. Furthermore, you may not be aware that the reason metro is being built for long distances is not just its greater potential capacity, but because its average speeds are a lot higher (compared on a same distance /same number of stations basis) than suburban trains. This means that they can shorten journey times to outer suburbs by as much as 10 to 15 minutes, which is very important in a city the size of Sydney. The further metro extends, the better it gets. The suburban system is also stymied by a powerful union which is resistant to change and enforces high staffing levels (e.g. two crew per train, compared with none for the metro), resulting in high operating costs. The double deckers are an anachronism that, unfortunately, we will have to live with for many years ahead and we won't see any new development of this system. Indeed, even the interurban lines, which are presently OK for double deckers but very slow, are planned to be supplemented or replaced by new, fast rail in the future. The double deckers were an expedient political solution at the time to gain more capacity without having to build more infrastructure. It hasn't worked, because population growth has greatly overtaken original expectations and building more infrastructure for this system rather than the metro would be throwing good money after bad.

The Chatswood to Epping tunnel was damaged by Nymby. As a result it was not a good route for our train sets (noise and grading). But having a disconnected rail system that can be privatised was tge main selling point for the last government

I am a Canadian who has never been to Australia, so I have nothing to contribute in this comment section except saying hi to all my Sydney homies!

Ooooh…this video is so pretty! ✨🌟✨

Just got back from Sydney and Melbourne and both metro and transport systems are still leaps and bounds above TTC and GO in Southern Ontario, speaking as someone from Toronto

I ride the Sydney trains twice a day, 7 days a week to get to work and back. It’s good for me because the total cost for the week is capped at $50 and the express trains get me there fast. However there is work still to be done because of late and cancelled services, buses which replace the trains when cancelled and overcrowding which happens a lot. The seats look comfy but some seats are quite dirty and wet for some reason. The older seats were better because you could see the dirt or wetness.

Does anyone remember the insane protesting in the Eastern Suburbs back in the late 1990s when they proposed an extension of the Eastern Suburbs line to Bondi Beach? Lol

As a Berliner, I am glad that reese is becoming increasingly S-Bahn-pilled

They'd have to completely rebuild St Marys station below ground level and add additional platforms for the Airport Branch and reconfigure the track. Which will cause disruption to the blue mountains line as well as freight heading to Lithgow and Western NSW. Which would be even more expensive. So its probably just easier to build a metro line between St Marys and The Western Sydney Airport to minimise disruption on the main western line. I definitely agree that we should do both, I don't think they should convert any more Sydney trains lines to Metro lines. They should build an orbital Sydney trains line linking Hornsby, Richmond, Penrith, Western Sydney Airport, Campbelltown and Sutherland.

I watched this on a train going from Martin Place to Edgecliff. It came 2 minutes after the previous train which I just missed. The thing about Sydney’s trains is that they are suburban trains on the fringes and very much a metro or Underground style system in the centre. In the 1970s when the double decker trains were introduced, they looked like a marvel compared to the old “red rattler” single level rolling stock. From then on it became a political issue that the red rattlers weren’t being replaced more quickly. I think that controversy is still reflected in Sydney’s live of double decker trains

The Metro WSA line is kind of a long term futureproofing move. The idea being that the Bankstown conversion will one day include an extension which connects to the WSA line, which itself will extend past St Mary's and connect with the North Western Metro line and create a circle around Sydney. Grounds also been broken on a City to Parramatta line that runs through Five Dock and north Strathfield.

The Bankstown line was actually a disaster. Finishing the line at Bankstown leaves a lot of elderly people with limited access to get into the city. And with the close down of the line after Bankstown will cause major issues with commuters who will have no way to get into the city.

P.S.. Excellent video as always.

Sharath from Building Beautifully would love this video! There is one thing to note about Sydney Metro and that is higher frequency, faster acceleration and higher speed between stations (not certain why, but Metro consistently does 100km/h whereas the double deckers can’t seem to get out of their own way).

Issue with Sydney CBD capacity is that Sydney Metro took the last available CBD corridor suitable for rail. Unfortunately all the space under the roads have already been taken and there are too many buildings in the way. Other thing you might not appreciate is that the main reason Sydney went down the Metro route is to break the railway unions - it took a helluva effort for Perth and Melbourne to get rid of guards and other surplus staff. Sydney figured out there is another way of solving the problem without crippling strikes.

I'd love to see you do a deep dive on Rome and its public transit. I was just there for a couple weeks and...I have some thoughts. But I've had a hard time finding much of any info on why it is the way it is or what's happening to make it better (and I did see signs that some things are happening to make it better).

Hi Reece, great videos! Agree with most of your points, just some additional context for the new airport metro. One of the big priorities is creating 30min cities and reducing the CBD centric focus. The new airport metro is one of the rare examples of infrastructure before people. That whole area will be unrecognizable in the coming decades, new cities & business parks along with the airport related employment, so that metro will service those people primarily. Also to start with, the new airport will mainly service the western suburbs population with low cost airlines and freight handling. People from the east will continue to use the existing airport on the most part and I think the business case focused on that, over creating a convenient connection into the network.

It's good to get back to Victoria after a long trip. Melbourne Metro has a comprehensive network and V/line has good rolling stock, performance and improving its infrastructure every day.

Local pronunciation? 10/10. Brisbane is the bane of my RU-vid experience. I like the content as well. What happens when the most difficult metro line to pronounce (the new airport one) fails to make a profit for its private operator?

LOVED the video and absolutely LOVED your points about double decker vs single deck trains in Sydney. Just like many of the commentators here, I’m a Sydney resident and I can’t stand the double decker trains for two reasons: 1. The 2+3 seating 2. The stairs 3. The lack of doors A lot of people naturally assume that double decker = more seats = more capacity. But as you’ve pointed out so brilliantly, this isn’t the case. All of this contributes to wasted space, longer dwell times, The amount of times the ‘3 seater’ is wasted because nobody wants to sit in the middle and everyone uses it to just put their bag, along with the fact that it’s just difficult clambering over people during peak hour trains means that our dwell times and # of trains per hours are not running as optimally as they could be.

There is only one reason why the Metro line to the Nancy Bird-Walton Airport was not just tacked on to the heavy rail network - the T1 line is at capacity. So to get trains from there to the airport, trains have to be diverted away from Emu Plains and Richmond. That's just not going to happen and bear in mind that T1 has to have room for Intercity trains coming down from Lithgow and My Victoria. At some time in the future, to boost capacity even further, the metro line terminating at St Marys will be extended in two directions - one line will go to Schofields and then on to Tallawong, where the North West metro line stops and the other will go to Westmead where Sydney Metro West will terminate initially. This missing link will be crucial but the dollars aren't there right now, given that Sydney has 113km of metro lines under construction at the moment. The last single-deck train on the heavy rail network was retired in 1992 (I think) after around 50 years of faithful service. There is no point in putting single deck trains back on the heavy rail network because the lack of seating will just aggravate people, many of whom travel great distances by train daily. An eight-car A-Set has a crush capacity of 2,000 passengers with more than 1,200 seated. Yes, Sydney's rolling stock is unique in that way. The doors are quite wide too, allowing two queues of people to alight, followed by another two queues of people boarding. German and Swiss cities which use double-deckers are ultimately embracing not just an Australian invention but a Sydney one - the double deck electric multiple unit (EMU) train. The first ones came off a production line in the Sydney suburb of Rhodes in 1965 and Sydney has never looked back.

Haha oh man I love catching the train, but the stairs situation kills me. People get onto the train and just suddenly stop while they choose whether to go up or down. Meanwhile people are getting blocked from boarding and the guard is aggressively blowing their whistle. PSA: Get on, go up, go down, or get out of the way!!!

Thanks for covering sydney content. The western sydney airport line is a strange line in its current form. The sydney transport master plan extends further to tallawong in the north and Bankstown via Glenfield in the south. My expectation is this is why metro is used as it can either be integrated with the northwest and city south west to make a massive urban loop or so that it is a consistent service even if there is changes. Government hasn’t committed on how the western airport line will terminate but sounds like financing for Bradfield to Glenfield is happening.

As someone who is a driver on DD trains the amount of time that you would save on single decks at peak hour would be close to be minimal. Station upgrades would be better spent due to people crowding on the platform and infront of doors. Guaranteed if we had 3 doors per side you would still have people standing infront of doors creating delays. The easiest solution is create space in the city circle. Increase the speeds between parra and redfern. Add carriages because honestly between 3 to 6pm you need bigger trains. Single decks just dont share the capacity that the DDs have so you would have to extend them and make platforms bigger which in alot of places isnt possible

The Southern Concourse at Redfern is open. As in keeping with local politics, there were people in the area (and probably some from outside) who were against the project. Some of their issues may have been valid. I don't know, not being a Redfern local. The main issues raised were - impacts on local streets, resident amenity and pedestrian and cyclist safety. As for making platforms 11 and 12 fully accessible and Disability Discrimination Act compliant, that will have to wait a while.

Sydneysider here aho apreciated the understanding of our transport, not just being critical but being contructive about how we could do better.

Hope you make it over here and experience Sydney Trains someday 😊🫶🏼

I'm no expert, and you are obviously know more about this kind of thing. But I try and look at this from an outsider's perspective. Both the New York Subway and London Tube are world renowned for being extensive systems. As a Sydneysider, in the 80s and 90s, I looked at those systems and wished Sydney's rail network was as good. In 2023, you could argue we're now well on our way to getting this. But I don't think of the NY and London rail as being a hodge podge of separate systems. These are one big extensive network. If there were good reasons as to why Sydney needed two separate rail networks, fine. But they shouldn't be marketed as two separate systems. They should just be known as the one rail system, which just happen to have different lines. That means that the trains should be in the same colour scheme and the network map should just list the metro line as another Sydney Trains line. The customer doesn't need to concern themselves with the technical differences. They choose their station, they hop on, they hop off. It's just like how the T4 line is very separate from the rest of the Sydney Trains network - That's inside knowledge, not something the average commuter needs to concern themselves with. To me, that's the disappointing part about the whole thing. We'd look to a visitor like we have a chaotic bazaar, not an extensive well integrated system.

As a Sydney resident, I think we should prioritise installing lifts in all the existing dated stations. Allawah station for example received an upgrade way back in 2001 with lifts installed yet Banksia station not too far feom Allawah only had lifts installed about three years ago.

Yeah, many valid points Reece. I see a lot of people have filled you in on the situation, but just to reinforce the issue with certain more affluent areas - NIMBYism, and on a broader scale, left vs right. Unless our governments seriously screw up, they tend to be given around 10 years in power (not always with the same leader for that period). That's plenty of time to improve, or seriously mess up, just about anything. The previous government certainly locked the new government into a lot of expenditure that they are currently reviewing. At least they are returning the Freshwater class ferries to service, which will increase ferry capacity between CQ and Manly. The queues at Circular Quay and Manly wharf on a warm sunny weekend can get ridiculously long with the smaller ferries in operation.

Unfortunately the conversion of the Bankstown Line to Metro takes the relief line if the mainline is closed (via Strathfield). When the lines have had a incident or police shutdown they have routed western trains via Bankstown. No more when converted.

As a student that is going to study in SYD, this video helps a lot, maybe next time talks u can about the new airport in SYD and its transport ways.

Interesting! Though I'm not really convinced about a few points. The West Sydney Airport line : of the 3 reasons you presented, the first 2 are non-issues in my opinion. The Alstom Metropolis trains can run at 120km/h and the model can be pushed further in speed if required. So 140 or even 160 should be doable, coupled with metro acceleration capabilities. How fast do Sydney Trains go? GPE's MR6V were tested at over 100, if not 120 not long ago if memory serves. The great advantage of self-contained lines like this project features is full driverless automation and thus less operating costs. Plus, of course, great and very quick line "reactivity", meaning super fast increases in service frequency at any time if needed without ever worrying about driver shits' schedules. A weather situation delays arrivals at the airport? No problem, the line adapts to the situation in minutes. While the Sydney Trains line it connects to, serving more populated areas than the airport line, would be operating normally. Rapid frequency scalability is complicated and expensive when drivers are part of the equation. I think all new lines should be built at GoA4 (driverless / unattended) by default everywhere that is possible. As for the 3rd point, branches are often a cause for disruption and operational complexity. Two branches mean splitting traffic between the two, half and half, 1 third / 2 thirds, etc. Two independent lines allow for maximum frequency on both and eliminate the need for the often detrimental load balancing between branches. Many people using very busy branched lines would often prefer a short and easy connection between 2 fluid and frequent lines over an unreliable, overcrowded and less frequent one-seat ride caused by the branched model. Like in Paris where there are branches being separated or planned to be, for operational simplification and service improvement. Just ask those who live next to M7's branches in the South, they've been dreaming for years that one branch be taken by M5 as an extension, so that traffic can be maximized on both branches instead of being split. Perfect balancing between branches and sufficient frequency on each is very difficult on busy lines. Though, automation can help. As for Sydney Trains, maybe they're not in Sydney, I don't know, but double deckers can be very performant, they just need to be built that way. There shouldn't be an opposition between the size of the trains and their performance. Aren't there any minimum requirements like acceleration / deceleration or maximum platform clearing duration? Like with RER trains? (If I recall correctly, one of the RER requirements is a maximum of 23 seconds from doors closed to 225m long platform cleared, under both electrifications.) And about the twisty bendy line section transferred to Sydney Metro : The full automation will have an advantage, it should allow running always the best acceleration / speed profile at every point along the line. Which should make it more efficient and more optimized than the manually driven trains. Though, maybe Sydney Trains already have GoA2 autopilot, I don't know. On an adjacent subject, have you heard the news of the week over here in Paris? Wednesday November 22nd, IDFM and region's president announced the first expansion project of the Grand Paris Express, line 19, with 6 millions in funding for studies to be done by IDFM and SGP. It would be 25-30 kilometers long, with 9, 10 or 11 stations, and should link Nanterre la Folie, next to La Défense, to Gonnesse Triangle not far from CDG airport. There were also talks about a decision to be taken soon about the extension of M18 between Versailles and Nanterre la Folie or La Défense, and probably next year about the future and possible extension of OrlyVAL, with its transformation into a local service and fare integration. (The other possibility is closing the line, which would be a colossal waste). Anyway, I'm ecstatic about this new announcement! Great video, as always!

I saw the title and looked upon in horror because I immediately got worried that Sydney Trains will get axed. Even if it's imperfect or even inefficient, the loss of Sydney Trains would make Sydney a lot less livable.

Because of this I decided to look at Australia's intercity rail network. It's impressive! Feels better than Canada's at the very least.

I don’t think that the Illawarra & Eastern Suburbs (T4) line will ever be extended, the NIMBYs don’t want it despite it providing them with easier access to the CBD. Would be cool to see it happen though.

Genuinely I think this is your best video on the Sydney System(s) yet, it feels like torture having watched the state government make terrible political decisions for what could be great investments (metro northwest, SYDNEY METRO WESTERN SYDNEY AIRPORT METRO LINE) Especially with metro running 3 different standards, it feels like they wanted to sacrifice a cohesive (or even two cohesive systems) with something that could be over-sectorised to the point of impracticality. However, there's a great push for more stations on the new metro (city to westmead) to be built, which will hopefully mean the metro does it's job as an urban metro, rather than somehow being an express version of Sydney trains. Also, I think there's an attitude of "lets not invest in Sydney trains, it's obsolete by new technology" is reminiscent of the Tram->Bus era, and that fixing some of the steam era alignments + Quadruplification would allow the heavy rail system to show it's strength in perth style speed better paired with a more focused metro system, and it seems that there is growing interest in that. Also, 25kvac...? 100% agree on bimodal trains, could be a great way to reignite the expansion of electrification, perhaps with alignment improvements to further destinations (canberra, newcastle), to have trains actually out compete road travel times to towns outside Sydney (Mossvale, Gosford, Goulburn, Wollongong, Newcastle etc). These could be along existing road alignments on the Southern highlands line (perth style) But I can dream :/

My understanding is that the Chatswood-Epping rail link while designed for the giant EMUs still had incredible trouble in service because of the steep gradients

As a Sydney commuter a decade ago, i always thought the double decker trains were their biggest issue in terms of service delivery. Why they could not have used single deckers all that time ago I will never understand

Another reason the airport metro might be okay is it doesn't seem too far away from Tallawong to me. They could simply join the two lines together

Thanks Reece. Many others have mentioned the reasons why metrofication is preferred. One thing is speed. As long as they can get a seat (and that is an important issue) people don't care if Sydney Metro has longer distances between stops than you or I think it should, because it runs at 100km/h when Sydney Trains struggle to maintain 50.

I don’t know who is giving you advice on Sydney trains, but I would be getting more or different advice. To understand why the Western Sydney Airport line makes sense as a metro you need to understand how it fits into the long term plan which is to extend it north to Tallowing and south or south east to areas not currently served by rail. You also need to understand the growth plans for the entire city which is to split it into three cities centred around Sydney, Parramatta and Bradfield. The transport aspect is to have high frequency metros centred around each city to reduce the distances travelled to and from work and other destinations. It’s about a 50 year plan for growth, not just an adhoc link to the airport. No credible planner advocates for extending Sydney Trains traditional routes. They have massive legacy issues that result in frequent and unavoidable delays and meltdowns. New extensions will not avoid that. Sydney Trains have capacity issues all over their network. Expanding it further is just nuts.

Video idea: How long (or short) should a metro line be?

Hi Reece as an aspiring planner in Sydney, I agree and am very disappointed the heavy rail Sydney train system is lacking in the plans for transit in the city, especially with the Western Sydney Airport development. If you also take a look at the new express Parramatta line it follows this principles as well. Within the city and around the circle this system is inefficient slow and unreliable however is very competitive when in the suburbs! However Sydney metro while being single deck and lighter is more of a new and improved city rail system designed to deal with higher amounts of people rather than the "metro" it is set out to be. For example the trains are long and have the same track gauge, speeds and track design as Sydney trains. But really enjoyed the video!

counter point but toronto will be close to metro like speeds with the go expansion in some parts with double decker cars

It seems someone finally gets it

Hello RM, can we get a new video on the new valley line in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Your analysis on the line please? Thanks!

Melbourne really lucked out with such a versatile system, making both dedicated metros and exurban systems not different enough to be worth it, while still possible with upgrades (HCMT and CBTC) to eventually fill both roles... though unfortunately, not soon enough, and not as well as both.

We run double deckers for passenger capacity. We'd need to buy a whole lot more single deck carriages, and run more services then to compensate for few passengers per carriage. Currently we can't do this due to less than modern signalling, which results in not being able to run trains close together.

I think the current lines will remain, as the metro operates on an exclusive right of way while the current suburban rail shares it's track with electric intercity trains (which have no chance in hell of being converted to metro for obvious reasons), diesel-powered regional trains and freight trains. Maybe they could get an automated metro to navigate around all of those, but I doubt it would be reliable. I really hope so at least, because classic sydney trains are iconic.

Melbourne has 2 minuets headways in peak times at southern cross on the lilydale and those lines

Fun fact - in the 1980s, Sydney used to have both single story “red rattlers” and double story trains and sometimes even mixed combinations of both types in the one train.

As a Sydneysiders who also travels a lot to the Blue Mountains I think your observation that Sydney needs an additional option on the Suburban rail network is spot on. In my view we need to add an S-Bahn type network to serve the outer areas, using single deck stock with faster acceleration, higher speed and less frequent stopping in the inner suburbs to provide an express service option to outer areas allowing journey times to compete with car travel.

When double deck carriages were introduced, they formed the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th carriages in an 8 car set. They made an immediate improvement in services as more people could obtain a seat. They did have their peculiarities - for example, if a train which had that formation took the curves just west of Newtown a bit too fast, the last carriages could give the impression that they were very unhappy. But overall they were a success, leading to the technology breakthrough which allowed double deck carriages to be motored, Sydney travellers have been well served by them since, That success extended to the longer distance trains. The next step for Sydney trains should not be on the northern beaches, or at least those north from Newport. The only way to achieve such a service would be an underground service. The traffic volume just could not justify the enormous cost. Perhaps a revival of the Hills District service?

I like how metro is fast. A train from Chatswood to manly would be nice because then you can catch the useless b line on the northern beaches

So there will not be a direct connection between the new airport and Sydney Central? I think there should even be a non-stop connection. And this time no gate fees at the airport please!

Let’s just say I work adjacent to Sydney trains. And to be honest, I’m actually surprised the system works as well as it does based on what I’ve seen.

make a genoa metro explainer you could talk about how they used overhead power (very close to the train)

I travel to Parramatta, Sydney's second CBD, every few months for work from the airport. The double decker trains annoy me as there is lots of crowding around the doors by people who are only doing a few stops, don't like stairs or have luggage, and ther are a lot of people in this situation. On the T1 Express to and from Parramatta is not too bad as I am going against the traffic, and I have time to clamber up and down the stairs with my suitcase. T4 from Central to Domestic late on a Friday afternoon as rhousands of commuters head back to their home cities around Australia is a different situation. I'd love to say for us Canberra commuters I'd take the train from Central, but I like getting home at a reasonable hour

ngl the only issues I still have with metro is incompatibility. Like after visiting Tokyo, I realised that 4 different private rail operators were operating one train service (from Tokyo to Yokohama), and had the rail networks been imcompatible, there would be no way this route would exist, that customers today would benefit from (interestingly, even Tokyo Metro services have express routes, using quad platform stations as train bypasses, very cool).

Yes the metro can currently achieve better headways, but it can only achieve 30 trains per hour (when it should really be able to achieve 40 trains per hour given that it's using short, high accelerating trains with CBTC). The Sydney trains network is getting upgraded with signalling that should be able to achieve 24 trains per hour once the get it working, and eventually should be able to achieve better frequencies than that even with the current train fleet. It has been suggested that if both the metro and sydney trains used the same moving block signalling, the metro should be able to run 40 trains per hour, while sydney trains should be able to run about 30. It's still a 10 train difference, but it's probably not as significant as one could be led to believe. If they removed seats from the double deck trains and made double width staircases, Sydney trains could carry way more people. The metro only accelerates and brakes a tiny bit faster than the newest double deck trains, it's probably insignificant enough that it doesn't help train frequency. I agree that they don't need to go all out on the double deck trains, but I think it's going to be very unlikely that they'll introduce single deck rolling stock on sydney trains, they might as well just covert those lines to metro services.

A Sydney train line from st Marys to leppington would make sense it would allow direct trains to run a loop to parramatta central city circle Sydney airport and back to west Sydney with stops also at connection stations like Blacktown Strathfield Redfern wolli creek glenfield. A effective circular route with roughly 15-20 stops max so quick direct

As a person who uses the network on a daily basis the current train network needs to be heavily upgraded or modified. The trains rarley come on time. Routes take far longer than they should. Ann example is Parramatta (2nd largest city in the state) to central station. On a 4 stop, limited express service (T1) it takes 25-28 minutes on a good day. The route is about 25km in length. That puts the trains running at an average speed across this section of the track at about 60km/h. Thats shockingly slow compared to networks accors asia that run around 80km/h. If I drive that same route at times with low traffic its possible to do in 35 minutes which is shocking because the train line is very direct and the route to drive is very indirect. There is also tons of issues around the signals where one signal breaking causes the entire netwrok to be down for hours, instead of just the area of track that has the issue. Then there is a reliability issue around workers regularly being on strike (for good reason) causing network delays or statight up having the network down for a day. These issues all mount to the point where the metro network is seen as far more reliable and useful then the train network and why a lot people would perfer the entire network to convert over to metro instead of the current trains. Lastly, one thing that I'm not sure you quite picked up on is that "Metro" is basically the way that the government is getting around the train workers not wanting the train network to be automated. So parts of the network that you rightly pointed out were designed for trains, that are being changed to metro, that wasn't originally the plan. There was a plan at one point to automate parts of the train network with trains but as far as I know that is being blocked by the union for good reason.

They removed sydney trains from the hills metro and was the worst mistake every. The bigger mistake will be the banko converson esp if something happens on the sydney trains network means less options when the crap hits the fan

As a Sydney resident for the last 45 years. I used the rail and bus system in the 70's and 80's and am using it in the last 10 years. The difference is a great improvement in frequency and punctuality. I honestly couldn't recommend anything to improve the system, without it being a waste of money.

Redfern Station work has been completed now

The S-Bahn in Dresden uses DB double decker rolling stock

6:28 how many tph would be possible if you used 2 island platforms per direction on a 2 track corridor with double decker trains? wouldn't it mean 30-40 tph?