Why The Chunin Exams Are So Awful & Don't Work 

What's the best part of the Chunin Exams?

Tobirama: "I made the chunin exams so kids won't have to die in war" *kids die in chunin exam instead* Tobirama:

Hundreds of cadidates, spread over several weeks, from several countries, to help build each country's ranks of ninja and they only made 1 chuunin. That never made sense to me.

The funniest part is that there are no repercussions for killing anyone in the exams. Some ninja from the Hidden Clouds is killed trying to kidnap Hinata. Prepare for war! A whole bunch of our children are slaughtered during the Chunin Exams. It is a minor inconvenience.

The leaf left two genin (strongest bijuu, sharingan user) in a forest with spies, terrorists and other foreign agents. It’s a miracle that the leaf didn’t get kaboomed pre time skip.

Pain should have made the chunnin exams a talking point for his cause. I bet a lot of ninja like might dai or survivors of the Forrest would probably have went to his side like the smaller villages in how these exams are structured or even against the leaf alone just by how they sent over their top potential future soldiers and got washed in a foreign land

Btw, Naruto being in the Forest of Death would have been the perfect chance for Obito to capture him. He could use Kamui to appear, capture him, and leave in less than a minute. And no one would ever know.

I’ve never understood why they didn’t just have a bunch of Anbu patrolling the forest

What amuses me is that the Chunin exams are completely pointless as they don’t test for the biggest distinction between a Genin and a Chunin - the ability to lead a squad of other ninja. 🤔

Imo, the real problem with the exams is that the villages send their gennin to another village to get promoted in an exam that can, and probably will, kill them, which is stupid in the point of view of the other villages.

Land of waves is the best arc. It sets up everything about what it means being a ninja and what theyll be doing. Then the entire premise of the show gets derailed and never has the same vibe as zabuza

Having a promotion exam where your young ninja can die is a dumb way to promote ninja to higher ranks anyway. After a certain amount of high risk missions you should get a hard but non-lethal test to promote. That’s what real special forces do.

In my opinion, they should have been genin while going through the academy. They do their d ranks with a set team or random teams, then they become chunin after they graduate and get their jonin teachers. Then the chunin exams could be the jonin exams. And that would make more sense, in my opinion, than having children show what a village is capable of

For me, the Forest part of the exam can make sense if you twist a little the intentions of the exams. As a ninja nation/village your main objective is to make your ninja get jobs from people, therefore the less "enemy" or "rival" ninjas the better right? Well, since you cannot kill them directly, you can maken them go to a forest filled with flora and fauna that can kill you in minutes if not seconds, like the giant worms that can drain your chakra or even snakes, spiders or any insect that can inject venom (like when your sleeping for example) or even something that may look tasty or safe to eat can kill you after lets say 3 days withouth any symptom. By this premise, ninjas from other nations WOULD NOT KNOW anything about the flora and fauna of the fire nation, while ninjas from the leaf village may have gone through lessons in the academy or in school (maybe in biology or natural sciences), so you could easily take out many ninjas from other nations/villages so that you dont have much oponents looking for ninja jobs. The sand village would be one of the main targets, because their eviroments is the total opposit from the hidden leaf village. The mist village wouldn know how to properly act in a forest since they are acostume to lands with a lot of water and would be a much easier target for other ninjas. Remember when Kakashi spot the 2 assassins in the first mission in the Zabuza arc, something like that could happend in the forest with eveyone on high alert at all time. And your ninjas would be (relatively) safe since they know what to eat from the flora, how to travel the scenario since they are used to forests and trees, how to keep the local fauna away from them, etc. I dont know, maybe Im just overthinking. If you read all of this, thanks :)

Not Zaku, Dosu and Kin getting so much development in this arc and then getting killed off straight after. 💀😞😞

During the forest of death, they could have had proctors on standby, while a couple of Aburame members watch the forest with a big swarm of bugs across the whole place.

I always wondered about somthing similar to this. What would have happened If kakashi failed Naruto during the bell test. Would the village have just not trained the strongest fucking jinjurichi

One problem is probably, because the arc wasnt planed. Kishimoto wanted to show the other genins ftom Mission to mission. The editor lead him to make the exam, so, that all can be showed in one instant. So, Kishimoto was "forced" to come with something. And created that problem. Funny part is, that the same editor sayed than, that he should blow up the exam later. And create the konoha crash.

It’s also kind of funny how the procters at the end are surprised that gaara finished the forest part very quickly going “I’ve never seen anything like that “ while you have some leaf ninjas doing it at the age of 7

I haven't dug into the video yet, so here's my initial thoughts. Hiruzen actually admits that the Chunin Exams are something of a war game. Each Hidden Village sends participants to represent them and show off their strength, especially during the final phase where they're having exhibition matches in a tournament in full view of civilians and visiting dignitaries, who will ultimately become the Hidden Vilages' clients in one way or another. Ultimate victory is not required to become a Chunin, but Genin are evaluated based on their performance in the exams, again typically during the exhibition matches, so clearly 'passing' the exams is encouraged but not strictly required, and the actual promotions are apparently done after the exams with no input from the other villages, so the Chunin Exams are just a show. Moreover, promotion to Chunin is optional, entirely voluntary, and Genin can already earn a living wage doing D-rank missions, in addition to the riskier C-rank, the occasional B-rank, or even the rare A-rank missions a Genin might stumble into like Team 7 did. In an ideal circumstance, that's all there is to the Chunin Exam; a political dick-measuring contest designed to make people want to hire ninjas as mercenaries. However, we know it's not that simple. The Chunin Exams are a bloody affair, and all participants must sign waivers absolving the hosting village of any responsibility for their deaths in order to be allowed to participate. In exchange, the Chunin Exams are an excuse for ninjas from other villages to legally enter the hosting village and kill, injure, or otherwise hinder the careers of the next crop of child soldiers from a given village, all the while being given free reign to spy and perform reconnaissance under the guise of tourism. In that regard, hosting the Chunin Exams is a village's way of asserting dominance over the others, because they're essentially throwing the doors to the village wide open and saying 'Come try something. We know you won't. And if you don't show up and participate after we publically invited you and everyone else, you're a scaredy little bitch. We, on the other hand, have huge swinging dicks, and we are so much better than you we can get away with taunting you like this to your face.' This is why rookies generally don't participate in the Chunin Exams, why the exam itself is optional and unnecessary for most career ninjas who'd just want to earn a living wage as soldiers and militia instead of in the civilian workforce, and why every facet of the exam is designed to weed out those who don't have the nerve or the ability to actually survive it; it's a free-for-all deathmatch masquerading as a friendly competition between rival nations.

The Chunin Exams is just like Tri Wizard Tournament and the Hunger Games seeing how they’re both sending children into meat grinders.

15:10 “They have to sign a waiver” The idea that there could be ninja lawyers going to ninja court is the funniest thing to me 😂

I love the Naruto Trading Cards Kabuto introduces...then are never seen again. It's such a dumb meta way of introducing characters. Maybe Kaburo made the Boruto Ninja Cards and that's how he's able to keep the orphanage open

The craziest thing to me are the grown ass spectators cheering for 12 year olds to battle to the death

Chunin exams were for the hokage and village officials. They couldn’t be there to observe every mission so the chunin exams were like a showcase for the genin.

My headcanon is that IS a reality show, that pays the entire exam with spare to change. The difference is, the nations pay observers/ ninja teachers to watch the exam and learn about the tactics and jutsus used.

Kishimotos a great writer, but why does he hate building off of the story he wrote

The problem of training gennins survival skills in missions is that you need clients that are willing to hire inexperienced gennins for high risk missions.But yeah, they need some jonnin patrolling the forest to avoid infiltration from other nations.

Can you explain the Feudal Lords in Naruto! How can these people have so much power when the villages can clearly eclipse them in military might. Why did Madara never attack these Lords to secure Konoha?

When you think about it, the Jonin should have these type of harsh exams. Most of the things you learn about being a Chunin should be learned in the academy. And then you just get on the job experience under a Jonin until he promotes you.

I haven’t finished the video yet so idk if he’s gonna say this, but Tobirama made the chunin exams to be a safe(ish) way to replicate war to make sure genin are ready for war. Because tobirama saw too many child soldiers die during a war they weren’t ready for.

As a kid i remember watching naruto part 1 in elementary so the chunin exams has a very special place in my heart. Im curious to what you have to say.

I have a question about the shinobi system in general. So kids join the academy around the age of 6 right? Atleast that's what I've heard. And they graduate, normaly, at age 11-12. What parent in their right mind would send their child to the equivalent of military school before normal school? And you might say shinobi parents but that still raises the question of why the hell is Sakura in the academy. Her parents/family have always been civilians so why the hell is Sakura in the academy and not a normal school?

I gotta agree with you in some points Glad Boruto made it a lot safer,I guess Naruto didn't want the kids to suffer the same way they did in them In other words Naruto must have remembered the exams when Pain talked to him about the curse of being a Ninja and took his words to heart

Love your content! Thanks For this ❤❤❤

The more you deconstruct the Chunin Exams,the more you realize that it was poorly planned yet is the most popular arc alongside with Pain's one.

i do think that it kind of *is* "bad writing": it's a symptom of the writer coming with things up on the fly and not thinking enought about the world-building and logical consistency. i understand why it happened, and i certainly don't think it was an intentional way of showing us how rotten the shinobi system is. like you yourself said: even if you look at it completely coldly, it still doesn't make sense. let's just acknowledge it for what it is: a consequence of a lack of fore-planning

I think forest of death should be kept just being watched all around making sure people dont die If they see someone abaut to die they stop them and tells the other to get out and give the scr9lls

Honestly the lethalness of this exam would make more sense if it was how someone became a jonin

There are cameras in the forest of death. In Obito's flashback, we see Minato watching on a TV with Sarutobi. I don't know if it's only in the anime. 

My second favorite part of the test after the prelims is the first exam. The psychological strain that Ibiki puts these Genin through is outstanding. A whole test that wants them to cheat, followed by the 10th question is legit so good.

Good points. But seems it could still be worked out with some aditional explanations and lore. If establishing things agreed between the villages, like a chakra barrie that would prevent strangers from entering. Plus some shared survailance by either cameras or ninjutso (like the crystal ball Hiruzen used in the first chapters), plus some special teams, specially medics, positioned in some places ready to be deployed according to need.

The justification for the finals works really well when you think about in terms of name recognition, like having the famous clans of Konoha show off their strength. "Yeah, we still have one last Uchiha, don't fuck with us. Oh, and I hope you did not forget that Konoha has Kyuubi."

Also why wasn't Sasuke ever promoted before he went rogue? He was constantly praised as a prodigy that could've helped to keep him from going with the sound ninja too

Haven't you made this video before? (or one that goes over the same points?)

Less goo new upload

Lol there's some soft background music around 20:35. That's from Juperos (Ragnarok Online) isn't it?

Bro made a video just like this a year ago exact same thumbnail

To be fair, if I was attending the exam to see which village ninja I would hire for missions, i would most definitely like to know which teams were successful in completing the second exam. Being the fact that they had to complete a goal by obtaining a scroll, combat and or escape stronger shinobi, and make it to their destination. Essentially this test held the most information gained on the genin. This exam is theoretically where the genin defined who the they wanted to be as shinobi. Buuuut I may be biased.

I think they should change forest of death assessment to something done by the jounins assigned to genin. They would be assessed by their jounin on missions and given score on things such as reconnaissance, survival skills, tactics, prowess, etc. They would also be assigned to different jonins from time to time to prevent favouritism, such as Ebisu faking Konahamaru marks to get him ahead. This would prevent unqualified genin or the ones that are only good at fighting (e.g. Naruto) from being assigned to more delicate missions when they get promoted to chunnin. Also swapping out Jounins, or putting genin in different teams ( e.g. Naruto in like team 10) for a mission or two would teach the genin to be more flexible when assigned to people they haven't worked with before. Then only after passing certain number of missions with decent enough score from like 3 different Jounins, can the Genin be allowed to take Chunnin exam, which would only be a written exam and arena like said in the video.

It's a military training exercise and they took recommendations for who could compete from the team leaders, it's not like they chose them at random, only the strongest got thrown in there because they would be more likely to survive. And kakashi is the one who recommended team 7,but you keep blaming the hokage instead.

I always wondered why Hiruzen and the elders didn't get the yin part of kurama out also freeing minatos soul from the shinigami stomach. Is there a reason why they didn't do it

The forest of death was inspired by the forest in the Hunter exams from HxH. Only reason it's in there.

A possible reason for things like the forrest of death, is a potential deterrent to make sure a village just doesn't send all of their genin. If the possibility of something like the forrest of death exists villages will be more calculating about who they send. The chance that there could be a forrest of death like test probably weeded out more genin than the first test did, and that was before the test even started.

You forgot that the finals also have a betting pool in it too. They have cameras but it’s limited. You don’t send your best to another village, you wait until your village holds it since it’s held like every 6 months. In the Genin exam held by Suna in that one filler with Fu her teammates where not genin but where either Jonin or Anbu that where there to guard her.

My theory is that the Ninja clans really hate each other even after Konoha's creation, the forest arc is just so they can kill each other legally.

If im not mistaken, i believe that there is more of a motivation to the finals of the Chunin Exam, specifically why its held in front of a crowd. it isn't just meant to gauge skills of prospective new chunin, but its to show off the next generation to the various nobles, merchants and other wealthy attendees so they can see the skills of the village so they would possibly hire these villages for jobs as this is the life blood of ninja villages.

Who do you think should be promoted to chuunin for their performance in the saga (considering everything even the anime filler)

I always thought it odd that they promote the skills openly of their yo young and up and coming ninjas. Isn’t the art of ninja to be deceptive, and covert? It made sense in the first arc that Naruto would choose to announce himself rather then take out the enemy because he is a showboat ninja, and shows that he doesn’t do things the way the typical ninja does. But a whole system where the ninjas show their skills in front of a huge crowd of people just leaves me confused??

The way that the Chunin Exams are structured, it almost feels like we were supposed to go back to this at some point given the ending of these exams was interuppted. I imagine if Naruto had remained a story about Ninja Politics, Missions, and acts of tyranny and terrorism as opposed to a story about bloodlines, conspiracy, and the deep dive into the powers that it ended up taking, the Chunin Exams probably would have had more of an impact in returning storylines.

Is this video a reupload? I know you’ve made this before

Naruto didn't get promoted because he wasn't mature enough to be ready for such a position.

Kabuto wouldn't be able to try kill Gaara because he has absolute defense.

When I was younger, I, too, thought that the chunin exams made sense due to being a high school student at the time (a failing student at that lol). Now that I'm older, your video really made sense. The Chunin Exams were truly ridiculous and a waste of time. It would've made more sense to have the Genin Shinobi Teams to go on more dangerous missions and once completed said mission the Kage would determine if said individual(s) were worthy of becoming Chunin.

When look at the exam after the pain arc I find it not necessary to hold them. I understand we need a way to test the young ninja bit at some point there should be other way to move up the ranks.

BTW the forest test is doomed from the start from a "human nature" standpoint. Let me elaborate, It is obvious which is the most effective strategy: Just camp close to the Tower and wait until some idiot with the scroll you need comes, end him/them, enter quickly to Tower if some other team that has pretty mich the same idea doesn't delete you first, profit. 😂🗿🚬

I think one mistake was made i remeber in anime gaara was first in the tower and beat some kind of record and every jonin was watching the tower inside from some tv room

I complately agree here about the political and financial standpoint. you're right about the forest of death somewhat redundant in the financial and political stand point. great entry point for people like orchimaru, etc. don't they the have anbu(special forces) to handle supicus matters.

You forgot the fact that if a genin went on a mission outside the villiage theres a chance it suddenly becomes an A or s ranked mission out of nowhere

I always thought it weird that they held the chunin exams maybe once a year? That would mean between the 5 great villages only 1 shinobi would get promoted a year, with each village only having a 1/5 chance of it being one of their own

Realistically you would need some way to evaluate a genin's abilities, power, and experience though. Since the genin teams are lead by a jonin, the jonin would be too large of a factor in the team's missions and no one except the team lead jonin would be spending enough time with the team to be able to accurately gauge the genins. For example, just because Team 7 was able to complete the mission against Zabuza, a potential A-rank threat, were the genin ready to be instantly promoted to chunins? No, they were carried by Kakashi, and they were lucky that Naruto just so happened to be the jinchuriki. Did they grow a lot from the mission? Yes, but the fact that they couldn't confidently defeat their fellow genins later shows that they were still genin, not chunin, level, and that they ultimately owed the mission success to Kakashi's prowess and Naruto's 'demon' instead of their own expertise.

You already covered this topic bro.

Kishimoto wanting to do his own Hunter exams is understandable but it doesn't really work for ninja as conceived in the Naruto universe. For one, there's the Harry Potter problem of how do these numbers make sense, as you'd have so few Chunin while having far more dead children. With Togashi's Hunters that's kind of the point as the exam is supposed to identify those capable of Nen and reign them in, all the dead applicants are merely adding to the Hunter license's prestige and allure in the market. Second, why are ninja willing to display their abilities to enemy villages? In the Edo period Samurai would participate in duels to show off their skills in order to seek employment from prospective lords, but these are ninja. They have techniques which can be analyzed and in the case of when the Uchiha were still a force directly stolen. Even just revealing their elemental affinities would be a huge loss in this universe of rock-paper-scissors mechanics. In the time of Boruto that wouldn't matter all that much, though Boruto has its own many worldbuilding problems. With Hunter x Hunter the exams happen before the majority of the participants learnt Nen and those without it can't perceive anyways, so it's not really going to breach the personal secrecy most Nen-Users have surrounding their abilities. Lastly - and this is a minor world-building issue - but why would feudal lords allow you to hire outside of their countries' Hidden Village anyways? If ninja were universally just organized mercenary groups that might make sense, but we see later that they pledge fealty to their local Daimyo and will fight wars on their behalf, Hiring ninja unaffiliated with your state would be building the coffers of your geopolitical antagonists. The exams should really be intra-village and pretty tightly controlled like the Hunter exams are, but made far less potentially deadly as you're conducting it on children of your own village. Obviously that would undermine the whole arc, but still.

Ninja villages: To prevent more wars, let's set up cross-village exams so our young children can grow up with the spirit of collaboration and comradery. Also ninja villages: Our adolescent rite of passage frequently results in battles where one or both parties ends up dead or seriously maimed. Also there are no restrictions or security on candidates so everyone from professionally trained assassins to those who can casually summon eldritch horrors regularly participate compete against a kid with a sharp knife.

also the forest of death was a warzone, imagine if someone triggered an old bomb that was like one of deidara's blast. every genin would die

Bro you dont get it lol. If they cant do 5 days of simulated warfare what good are they. Genins will just die on real important missions or they are stuck with D rank missions. Also they arent all the lost talented the teams go on their own accord

Honestly the biggest issue with the Chunin Exams comes from Orochimaru using them as a cover for his schemes. Pretty sure only the Sand, Sound and Leaf villages were actually present during this arc, and only because they were plotting against the Leaf village. Otherwise the Chunin exams would've just been the 12 leaf Genin (plus other Leaf Genin that were eliminated I suppose) competing against each other, no killing/maiming/cursemarks/etc. None of the stuff that makes the exams seems absurd. That would've made for a far more interesting and sensical Chunin exam IMO. I imagine Neji, Sasuke and Shikamaru would have all been considered for promotion. Not only that but the actual tests make sense, making sure you can collect information without getting caught, testing your ability to navigate deadly terrain and acquire intel while under constant threat and finally testing your actual combat prowess against similar level ninja. All in all I think the exams make a lot of sense, but the plot needed characters like Orochimaru, Kabuto and Gaara to be involved which just throws the whole system out of wack. Take those characters and the Sound village out of the equation and most of the danger in the exams disappears.

If the goal was to have a fight between the great shinobi nations they could have simply made a tournament by villages (similar to soccer tournaments in real life).

They definitely had cameras though Anko was watching Garra take a blood shower 😂

It can basically be summed up with Tournament Arcs don't make a school curriculum. Why is it a "Tournament" of all things? If this is what it's like for Chunin's then the Anbu must have a harder entry right? "Itachi and Kakashi are the youngest Anbu in the history of the village" How does that make sense? Especially if the Chunin exam is sizing up your strength. Anbu and Joinin seem way easier to become by comparison. Hell Hokage seems easier than the Chunin exam. Honestly? The worst arc in the series as time goes on. It has the best fights but it's story writing is straight up bad. No hyperbole. It just doesn't make sense any way you twist it.

I feel like it should be more team oriented. Like the forest of death is a team oriented thing but the fighting each other 1v1 doesn’t feel very “team”. I feel like the test should involve all three of them fighting together not a one V one.

the chunin exams is like a football tournament the village gets money from it from the tickets so they do it and they also try to test there genins and see if they r strong enough to get the chunin rules

its a brutal world. If they cant survive the forest of death, then in their thinking they werent worth training in the first place.

But I thought kumo try to kidnap kushina because she has a special chakra to suppress tailed beasts.

Weren't the Rain ninja there purely to kidnap Naruto and Gaara?

I thought the canon explaination and one that a good amount of villains went into. Is that the Chunin Exams were basically a way to project power aka flex how strong you are. As well as a way to keep other nations in check. Its somewhat meant to be a deathmatch/suicide mission with the payoff being political power. Everyone was wary that the other villages would get too strong and this was a way for them to keep an eye on eachother and prevent an arms race so to speak. Thats why the mission rankings are the way they are as well. Above the desk villages can only be as successful as they are understood by eachother to be. If a village is struggling with its exams constantly getting washed yet pulls tons of revenue and completes tons of high rank missions thats a red flag to the other villages. Which is the point. So they can see what theyre dealing with in theory and be more at ease or wary respectively

Also the chunin exam isn't a training exercise, its to show where you need to train, the first test isn't about intelligence they state its to hard for most people to pass you can do it the old fashion way but its about intelligence gathering, survival stage is about mission focus and stealth you can do it other ways but its main focus is to bide your time and select your moments to complete your mission in hostile environment, the tournament is more about pure strength and combat prowess it isn't worth more than any other part but i think the winner of the tournament is granted an automatic chunin rank so thats its only real benefit over the other parts

I have a theory about the forest of death being unrecorded It's literally to get rid of the weaklings so the villages can look better with their new soldiers

Daam all these arguments made me rewatch the chuning exams

Its not just about the power though. Shikamaru was nowhere near as powerful as Sasuke or Gara but hes the only one that was promoted. And even if the hokage can see it fit to promote a shinobi to a chunin without the exam. The hokage is already an extremely busy person and they wont know every single genin in their village well enough to know when theyre fit to be a chunin

Reanimation vs dead soul jutsu or explained or they the same thing?

Power is not the prerequisite too because chunin , if so shikamaru wouldn’t of been the only one too because a chunin , both Chunin and Jonin promotions are based on skill , after the war naruto was promoted by Kakashi based on skill ( which he obviously proved already ) and Neji was promoted too Jonin by Gaara and Tsunade bcz of his skill , not power .

People keep saying that the chunin exams were about simulated war and "flexing" on other countries but there was nothing in the rules that said you will attack only ninjas from other villages, it was free for all and over half of the participants were just from Konoha. That means you could have Konoha ninjas killing other Konoha ninjas, literarily making the village weaker just for the sake of a promotion with no repercussion for the killer. Like imagine if Neji found Hinata in the forest, he could've killed her then and there and then steal her eyes to have them as backup 😅

The first time I watched Naruto it was awesome and having to wait a week for every new episode, but once you rewatch it it's kind of pointless, many things don't make sense

The forest of death is literally just that part of the hunter exams when they were in the village but without making sense part , in hxh it doesn't matter how you got the enemies name tags it doesn't matter who dies and you are not showing your abilities to nobody, as long as you live and achieve the exam goal of collecting the name tags nothing else matters which is what they need in a hunter in the first place +A minor thing kurama is not the strongest bijou we know that the strength of bijous are not dependent on how much tails they have the 8 tails said that and that's the sole Reason why the 1 tails hate kurama

I have never heard someone say Forest of death was their fav part of Part One Naruto lol

If Kakashi really wanted to do significant damage to other villages he could have put Naruto and Sasuke, who are still genin at the end war on a team and tell them to kill every other genin that isn’t a part of the leaf.

9:01 “The first texam” lmao

The forest of death would not exist without risk of full war breaking out. The chunnin exams are meant to bring the 5 great nations together but they all hate each other. The best young ninjas compete to earn their chunnin licenses. With the hidden leaf facilitating the event this could be seen as a way for the leaf to kill off their enemies. There’s no way they’d risk an event like that occurring

I think there's one thing that this critique overlooks. The forest of death, is a naturally occurring, dangerous area, that is not exactly commonplace but implies the existence of other areas like it. The forest isn't maintained as a death trap. It's naturally deadly. Mt. Myoboku, is inherently deadly. There are cannonical fields of fire that are also deadly. The forest of death is arguably a necessity where in a semi controlled environment and quick access to civilization, there is an area of pervasive and inherent danger.