Why The Duggars, And Millions Of Other Baptists, Were Deceived By Bill Gothard 

I was a young woman, 26, when I attended his ‘event’. (Am now almost 72) It was “THE event” to attend back then if you were a Christian, besides Billy Graham Crusades. When, however, I felt unsettled about what I was hearing, and rejected much of what was said at the Gothard event, I was ostracized by my Christian friends I had known since I was a teen. I no longer felt welcome in Christian circles, nor in this world. With Christians, I was the ‘wrong kind’, (?), and with the world, I was ‘too Christian’. Painful! And for years I wondered about my own salvation, though I knew I loved the Lord with all my heart. I still do, even though my ‘walk’ through the years has been rocky. The Lord is so good, however, and never let me go. 🙌🙌 He has, especially in the past few years, brought me closer to Him, increasing my understanding of His Word, assuring me of His Love. I listen to Pastor MacArthur(since the late 70s), Paul Washer, Justin Peters, a few others, and feel a new deep hunger to know even more about God’s Word. I now have that blessed assurance, Jesus IS mine❣️ I am so thankful to Him❤️🙏❤️ Btw, I enjoy your videos. Thank you💕

"Obedience is not your protector. God is." Excellent. Thank you, Todd.

This reminds me a lot of the Mormon cult I survived. Sadly, I turned to atheism for many years to cope with that abuse.... I'm saved now and am so grateful God pulled me in but sometimes I'm sad for all the lost decades of unGodly living. I really feel for the children caught in this Gothard world.

The mixture of truth with lies is the deadliest cocktail.

I’ve heard of Bill Gothard but I grew up in the black church which was weak in a lot of ways. No real strong basis in the Bible but a lot of religion and racial idolatry. I am saved now but I could see why some liked Bill Gothard. I thought the Duggars seemed more devout than what I saw growing up and when I went to college. I don’t care for a lot of the different things I have seen in many churches since I’ve been saved but I study the Bible for myself and am in a solid church now.

Modesty, authority, masculinity, and femininity are all biblical. The problem happens when they become hyper-focus, and over-prioritized.

I really liked Ravi Zacharias; he always had really cute and meaningful stories to tell. And I listened to all his videos I could find. Then he died and the truth came out. I was stunned. But he was exactly the kind of preacher that Todd talked about: a preacher with hundreds of stories but no Bible teaching. I won't get fooled by another like that again.

Excellent work Todd. Legalism is so insidious, it dresses up like an angel of light.

I grew up in the Gothard cult. My mom still has binders and books (that need to be used to start my grill, its the only thing they are worth using for) that she won't get rid of. That legalism was so bad that I thought I was saved at lest 2 different times, as a child and then as an adult. But the fruit was not there. It wasn't until 2020 when I received a regenerated heart from the Lord. I knew Bill personally and talked with him on many, many occasions. My wife and her family were also involved in the program. She went worked at the HQ, I attended the Life Focus program at the Indianapolis IN training center where I worked at the front desk over night on "security" which was nothing more than monitoring the front and side doors to make sure the juvenile delinquents did not escape. I can 100% confirm that there was never any teachings of the gospel of Christ in that program. Team leaders would refuse to answer basic questions about the bible when we were having our morning devotion time. I legit had questions and they would refuse to answer them. My family spent almost every summer in the 90s at the main conf in Knoxville TN. 20,000 families duped by that wolf in sheep's clothing. In the mid 90s we moved back to the ATL and joined a church that was almost 100% part of the cult. If you were not in the cult then you were shunned! The reason that so many people were at that church was because most families had 8+ kids. My family was more of the black sheep in the program because we had TV and my parents couldn't be consistent with the strict rules placed on us. They did try... It was a crazy roller coaster of inconsistency. My mom's greatest regret is not being able to be an ideal ATI family. My parents ended up getting a divorce 2 years ago after 29yrs of marriage. My dad cheated on my mom because my mom wanted him to meet every single expectation that she had and at the bottom of it all, Christ was not the center of their lives. My older sister is pretty scared as I think most of the girls were. Girls were treated oddly because they were taboo but yet the main goal of being at a training center was to hopefully find a spouse. I came out with scratches, and nothing really more than just being shunned because I couldn't and wouldn't conform to all of their ridiculous rules. I'm glad I was homeschooled I wouldn't change that for anything and I do believe that Christian's should NOT put their children in the public school system. Voddie Baucham would say: "if you send your kids to Rome, don't be surprised when they come back Romans." All of my children are homeschooled, but they are taught the saving grace of Jesus Christ and that their dad is not perfect and he (I) need Jesus every day just as much as they do. God is merciful. He is good. And HE is the ONLY way to Salvation!! Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Fida, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria!

I'm athiest. Putting that up front. This video was absolutely inspiring. (Obvi, the preborn ad bothered me, but that's very personal, and not why I'm here.) I genuinely appreciate the message of this video. To hear a Christian MAN, a Preacher even, say that the IBLP & ATI are NOT godly is... Hopeful! It gives me comfort to know that not all of the Christian men of the world think this way. It was my only experience until now. I'm not converted, but I AM genuinely touched by the beautiful words and message of this video. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

What a great video! These are great principles for staying away from any false teacher. My siblings and I got pulled into the Gothard stuff in the 90s, although none of us could be quite comfortable with 😂it. Women were always supposed to wear skirts, even if they were at home doing yardwork. I remember a woman walking up to my sister who was wearing jeans and saying, "God intended women to look like women. " To which my sister answered, "no one has ever mistaken me for a man." The woman was speechless.

You’re a trusted enough source to listen to in this matter for a first time-Thank you for standing and speaking on the Rock of our salvation, Jesus Christ.

I am a Christian, and a Baptist minister. I had one of Gothards books and was always uncomfortable looking at it and reading what it taught. Now I know why. The Holy Spirit was protecting me.

This is the best discussion I’ve heard about this movement. I grew up in this and the teachings have impacted my life greatly in a very negative way. I spent 20 years sifting truth from the lies and still occasionally struggle with fears and work based ideas BUT God is so faithful and He loves us so much and I’m so glad I didn’t give up on figuring things out. It’s sad that no one ever tried to expose these teachings and even now the documentary was done by Amazon. I wish strong Christian influencers and or pastors would have spoken out years ago. I find it interesting that John 8:36 is my favorite verse and that is the verse used here. ❤️

Gothard took an indicative and made it an imperative.

I Have been IFB for over 30 years, and the Majority of Baptist Pastor's would not touch BG with a ten foot pole, but unfortunately many others were deceived.

We were in a house church greatly influenced by BG, Doug Wilson, and Doug Phillips. We are still suffering from it and have a daughter who refuses to see us as parents or grandparents. We tried to do life by the book and it turned out to be the wrong book. Please pray for our eldest to heal.

When I was 20, a husband/wife ran the youth group at my church. They adhered to Gothardism. They tried pounding into our heads all those legal rules you mentioned. It took about 6 months before I was fed up and quit going. However, it took 10 years before I’d attended a church again!

Grew up going to IBYC seminars and workshops. Met the man a few times. He taught some good stuff. He taught some silly stuff (women should never open a car door when a man is around.) He taught some flat out wrong stuff. And we knew it and ignored it, other than to poke fun. Just my opinion, but the problem is not so much bad teaching, but the idea that we should follow anybody 100%. Never put your faith in a person. Never accept any teaching uncritically.

I met Bill Gothard when I was 16. I only spoke with him for a couple of minutes. I told him that I wanted to be a Christian businessman and bring glory to God through business. I received a very condescending reply, implying that I was putting God last in my life after pursuing business. I am very thankful that I never went to another Gothard event. In the many years since then, I have learned how much Christ loves me and what he did for me and that he does not keep us under fear and apprehension.

We had a few families in our church who followed Gothard and they were very much like a cult. One family left our church because they actually called Bill and asked him what to do when our pastor was counseling against the errors. Bill told them to leave our church and they did. Two of the other Gothardite families are now in ruins because of his teachings. That's what legalism does.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! For your kind, biblical and engaging analysis of Bill Gothard and his teachings…I took his teaching when I was a teenager almost forty years ago! It added to my confusion…The Gospel IS the best news ever! Through Jesus Christ we can experience salvation and healing..through Him alone Rom. 3:24. No works required! None! Please keep speaking the truth in love. One of the greatest needs of our day. May God richly bless you! Eph. 3:20

Mormonism "Lite"... definitely not Biblical Christianity... Abomination.

Today, practicing true holiness is called "legalism." Don't ya just love how the devil spins that???

I'm soooo glad you are talking about this! So well said

I knew a guy that was into Gothard. He was divorced 4 times. He was so controlling it destroyed his marriages.

Thank you, Todd for exposing the fallacies of Bill Gothard's teachings. I went to his conference as a teenager, studied his BYC workbook and BLP. After being raised in the Presbyterian church, going through the Charismatic church movement, I came full circle and have been Reformed for over 10 years now. It's a great feeling to be fully recovered from the authoritarian teachings of Bill Gothard. I pray that he repents for the damage he has done to so many youths before he dies.

I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist, and I promise Bill Gothard is not an accurate representation of us. Even Spencer Smith, one of the largest Independent Baptist on RU-vid disagrees with him.

Yes! Context is imperative! I pray that all the people in this movement and that have come out of it come to know the truth of the Bible and the true Gospel of Christ!

Todd, great stuff on the motivation for obedience! One correction, Ephesians 5:21 does not teach husbands should submit to their wives. That’s a fallacy that seems to have made its rounds on account of novice handling of the Greek. You have to read the passage in context of the Greek grammar starting in verse 18. The command to submit to one another is to the whole church (along with the other preceding participial commands) and then Paul clarifies what he means by talking about the various types of hierarchical relationships in their community starting in verse 22. This is why Paul adds “own” in the command to women in that next verse (“submit to your own husbands”) because the context shifts from collective scope to individual relationships. Scripture is unapologetically patriarchal but the patriarchs are called to be gentle, selfless, loving men.

I think bang on today Todd. Appreciated this. I grew up in this environment in NZ But I think my family did a good job of not swallowing the whole of the teaches of Gothard. There are many good truths in the program! I think Gothards problem was he made an inference from a passage and would turn it into a imperative. I'm glad for gifted teaches who teach the word accurstely. Thank-you Todd.

My parents almost got into something like this and I saw a lot of my friends in the Christian school I attended deal with things like this. Legalism is so dangerous (and, ironically, ineffective). Just stick to the Bible.

Respectfully, I have a small problem with both Todd and many comments made here. Two points of full disclosure: I didn’t grow up in a family influenced by Gothard, but my wife sort of did so she’s given some insight. Also; my comment takes nothing away from any person’s terrible experiences that I wish hadn’t have taken place! Finally to my point; I feel we need to separate standard of Christian living between what is unbiblical versus undesirable. I go to an Independent Baptist Church that teaches the fundamentals of God’s Word; and at the same time we don’t preach standards of living as Bible doctrine. That must be separated! There’s nothing wrong with having standards, and there’s nothing wrong with people having different standards. Some people here are commenting that their family threw away secular music, were strict on what they wore…there’s nothing wrong with standards to live by and I don’t think Todd has any right to call that out nor anyone else. The problem is when you attach standards to Biblical doctrine and expect every Christian to live by them the same. That is of course wrong, and I have no problem calling that out. That’s what makes this movement(?) difficult to speak on in some ways. Any misinterpretation of scripture is wrong, any abuse is wrong. Those are obvious. But any family’s choice to have standards that are different from the world, or even different from many Christians today should not be under that same umbrella of being wrong. We should all be careful to not conflate a bad experience with believing that all people who live this way or go to a certain Baptist church as all being bad. And we should also not allow legalism to be some blanket term to bash any family who makes a choice to live more conservatively. Speak out against how we treat one another, but please don’t generalize all people who might go to a fundamental Bible church as being mean spirited and ultra authoritarian dictators. Just as following rules doesn’t make you righteous, nor is someone righteous for calling out people who might live at a different standard than you do. God bless!

I’ve been saying this about the Bill Gothard “empire “ since about 1976-1977 ; IIRC . People told me that I was overreacting , not giving a secret “thing “ over to the Lord , etc . I firmly believe that it severely damaged my relationship with the Lord for many years . I’m sadly glad to see this being revealed . 😢

If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!

I think it is wise to use caution when approaching a group that looks like the members are wearing a uniform, which is how the Duggars, and Gothardites in general, appear to me. The rainbow flag people appear that way to me as well. I started watching, “Shiny, Happy People,” and noticed that one of the, “experts,” called upon to critique the Duggars was a gender studies professor, so I shut it off. It's interesting that one who would approve of chemically castrating, and then surgically mutilating a child because the child is confused, would recoil in horror at the notion that a parent would spank a child.

I have a perspective on this from someone (me) who was intrigued by IBLP but ultimately decided against it. I am a firm and committed independent fundamental Baptist, something we tend to lack, is a large community. Our churches tend to be small as well as being independent. The idea of having a big, like-minded community was appealing. Never underestimate the power of the desire for community and shared purpose. It was also appealing to the desire to "infiltrate" and change the culture. A lot of what Gothard spoke about was the brokenness of culture and the modern family. Both of those statements are still true and his recipe(?) For fixing it was appealing to us In the end, what put me off, was the lack of Christ centeredness. Jesus was rarely, if ever, the focus and certainly grace itself was not shared. I also found Gothard himself to be kind of politician-y and slimy.

I just worry that in criticising (and rightly so) this man you are swinging too far the other way to egalitarianism. It's important to emphasize that the bible does teach Christian women to submit to their husbands. This is not a false teaching of the 20th century, it's an ages old biblical command. It looks like this teacher abused and twisted the scripture, but it doesn't negate the original command

So grateful for this video! I did not come out of Gothard's movement, but did come out of legalism. Thank you :)

Great message for the IBLP crowd! Gothard’s system has hurt many people and I pray they find the healing they need.

"Let today be the day the Son sets you free." Amen, brother!

As a "Reformed" believer who went to several Bill Gothard conferences back in the 70(?)'s, I still remember some of the things I heard there in a good light. Nobody's perfect. Back then the fundamentalist movement was everywhere. And it was a strange time of upheaval in the country and world, it is the rare church who stayed totally Grace and Gospel oriented and Christ centered, able to smile, as it were, at everything going on all around. Whatever faults Bill Gothard might have had, like another commenter mentioned, I think people take Bill Gothard out of context. This particular hit piece by Mr. Friel is shameful. I wish I was educated enough to pinpoint the various informal logical fallacies he commits here. Straw Man is the only one I know the name of. It seems as if it were thrown together in a hurry.... like within a 4 hour timeframe or something and they just had to get it out the door and get it posted on youtube. I mean it is almost like a parody of somebody doing a hit piece. How *not* to do an insightful and accurate hit piece. I have to admit though, I am spoiled as far as Biblically fluent, articulate, insightful, trenchant analysis and rebuttal/commentary goes by reading/watching Pastor Doug Wilson address various issues. ...Just to add, the short clip about the lady (who worked at the Bill Gothard Institute(?)) saying that they made Hell seem vivid and real to them..... sadly Hell is real and the more real and vivid we can bear to believe it the better. Not to be irreverent or too cheeky, but ask Jonathan Edwards (who understood more about God's Grace and the Gospel and the love of Christ than many) about "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", for example. This really makes Mr. Friel go down in my esteem.

Raised Gothard, I'm happy. Love my parents. And we never even had to wear pin wheels.

Todd Friel needs to distinguish between Biblical patriarchy and abuse of authority. God created patriarchy Todd

I wish you hadn’t used the clip of Mike Pearl that the documentary took out of context (as well as some other Christians that were lumped in with the Gothard cult including Answers in Genesis.) This was a good video, but after watching the entire Shiny Happy People documentary I believe it is important that we’re not blinded to the ways that satin will use it in attempt to put down homeschooling, big families, conservatism, and Christianity itself. Keep up the good work though, I really do love this channel, I apologize that my first comment is a criticism.

The biggest problem I saw in Gothard's teachings was the redefinition of fundamental Biblical terms, such as grace. This allowed him to misuse Scripture on a massive scale.

It's strange to use a feminist catch phrase "patriarchal" as an attack against fundamentalists. The bible is patriarchal. Plus the videos you use to attack bg don't have unbiblical sayings. Did your editors screw up or was this nothing really all there was?

I attended a week-long Bill Gothard seminar when I was 16. I am 60 now. The things I learned during that time have remained with me all my life. I have not once regretted anything I learned. I think perhaps that seminar has had the most significant influence on my Christian development. I am baffled when people disparage Bill Gothard. I have a lot of respect for Todd Friel but on this issue, I disagree with him completely. You must take things represented in an Amazon Prime docuseries with a grain of salt. ------------ Question: Is the protection talked about in Psalm 91 like the protection given to Stephen or Peter or Paul or so, so many of the early Christian? We know that God cannot lie. He says He protects His people. We need to discover exactly what that protection means. Consider what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 - _"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."_ When Jesus said "do not fear those who kill the body," was he nullifying Psalm 91? Bill Gothard's teachings on 'authority' were spot on. God created an authority structure that was founded before the end of Genesis 3.

I'm thankful I do not know the man I saw the Duggar on tv when I was young. Sometimes its good when we miss these things. praying for the people who fell for this deception 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Being a Christian over 55 years and a preacher close to 50 years I have to agree with much that was said concerning legalism and taking the scriptures out of context. However, I have to disagree with one statement that was in which "husbands are to submit themselves to their wife", nowhere in the scriptures does it say for husbands to submit themselves to their wife. It says "love your wife as Christ loved the church", "love them as yourself" Ephesians 5:22-33

Very good points. If you knew the Gothardite family I know, you would probably think differently, since they have turned out very well.

He sure didn’t practice what he preached. Where was his wife and 100 kids! Hmmmm.

My wife and I watched this yesterday. At times we were like what?!?!? And then we were like what?!?!? This it's a cult. Done done and done. Yes we watched all of it. This does not represent God, Christianity, or Baptist.

When I watched that documentary, I saw a great deal of my childhood. We were not as deeply into it as many, but it definitely affected my childhood. I struggled with legalism for a very long time and now I know why. Independent fundamental baptist churches and Bill Gothard. My dad used to have a collection of Bill Cosby records (long before the truth about him came out). After a Bill Gothard seminar, he went home and broke them all.

Gothard's teaching was aimed at specific problems and so was not intended as a balanced theology. What others have done with his teaching is no more Gothard's responsibility than it is the Apostle Paul's responsibility what false teachers and legalists have done with his Epistles.

I think we need to step ack and ask why this is so appealing to so many. Some people are naturally sweet and domestic, and love children and the idea of family, modesty and family. This appeals to them. I think they are idealistic and want to be separate from the world because it’s so horrid. Perhaps the current state of the church and its devotion to worldliness and being relevant has caused many to leave and go this direction. The church is in a state. The over emphasis on entertainment has caused many to convert .

Wow Todd. I like a lot of what you say, but I only made it through the first 3 minutes and I whole heartedly disagree with what you say. So do you advocate for birth control? The morning after pill? Aren't we suppose to be fruitful and multiply? Aren't we for the preservation of life? Just that opening statement makes you all there at wretched look worse than joyce meyer. I mean this with love and genuine honesty. I don't agree with quite a bit of what Bill says, but he says nothing absolutely nothing wrong there. Not only that, but I'm so surprised to hear the word legalism coming from your mouth. That is an overused liberal progressive "christian" phrase that should only be used in the context of someone saying your not just saved by grace through faith alone and other things of the sort. This was a bad take just that first three minutes. I'll continue watching, but what you said isn't right.

Baptist and so glad I never heard of him. That’s the same works salvation that so many other denominations come up with. It’s so very hard for man to just accept what God has freely given through His Son’s death on the cross.

When I was a new Christian I was encouraged to attend a Bill Gothard program. I really had an uneasy feeling about his teaching and after reflection rejected his material. He makes people to swear to do certain things, an oath really.

Thank you for this presentation.

"God is your protector, not obedience." Amen

I attended IBYC in 1973, 74 and later again in the 1980s. I still have all the scriptures memorized. I was a new Christian and the foundational teaching was meaningful. It was in the 80's I found out all people (according to Gothard) were to remain with their birth family until marriage. I was in my late 20's and felt the condemnation of this doctrine since I was already launched as a solo female in a career God placed me in over 2000 miles from home. I rejected that teaching but understand others may still be bound in it and other lies. 🤐

We knew a number of it that were trying to follow this, thinking it was of God. They took classes. I even bought some materials at a yard sale. We just couldn't get into it. The Lord was protecting us.👆

We interrupted a fabulous family holiday with our 4 kids driving from Corpus Christy to out-of-the-way Kansas City (I think) then home to NW Alberta. We bought a bunch of books etc. I hope BG didn't sway my Fatherhood to their loss. Please forgive me Lord! I am so thankful that God helped me realize the difference between "Biblical Principle" :-( and Biblical Truth.

Our old church was really into BG's teachings. And that good ol' umbrella of protection...heard it many times. So glad we left there. So many problems.

There is also a mixture of truth in THIS video. Really disappointing todd. "Why do u call me Lord? But do not do what i say?" Gothards main message, was meditating and receiving Gods word. The majority of weakness in confessing Christianity today is lack of spending time alone with the Lord in meditation on His word. And faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God. The Lord also said that the thing that would judge us in the end was the words that He has spoken. Also, He said the thing that distinguished the children of satan and children on God when he was talking to the pharisees was the word abiding IN you. Im disappointed in this video. Regardless of gothard, you cant honestly believe on Jesus Christ or even know God love without hearing about it. Psalm 119 " i have hidden Your word IN my heart, so that i might not sin against you!!"

Thank you Todd for bringing this out about BG

I know a Gothard following family that looked absolutely perfect but on the inside it was the woman controlling everything. The husband was abused in many, many ways for many, many years. And the children obeyed immediately and without hesitance. Very strange behavior and very awkward to be around them.

My husband and I were part of homeschooling through IBLP. We have six children and found the curriculum to be Bible based. My oldest 3 children memorized Matthew 5,6&7 Romans6,7 &8 and I John. We went to conferences to help train us in teaching our children. I feel a family that chose Hollywood exposure and fame are not an accurate reflection of the reality of IBLP. I agree they were legalistic, but believe that using God’s Word and especially Jesus’s words as a foundation for teaching our children was the best way to prepare them for life. They are all adults now, and I see a great difference between the older children and the younger ones that were not afforded the same educational start as I had to return to work.

it is easy for those who have never been there to judge. I attended half a dozen or so Gothard seminars. From the time I was 15 up to twenty. I have been a Christian since I was 8 and grew up in a Southern Baptist Church. I am 57 now. When I got married I ended up moving from home and attending churches that were non denominational. Not for any reason than that was how things worked out. Maybe the church I grew up in was an anomaly but as far as I am aware there were no negative repercussions from Gothard's teaching in that church. In fact legalism was routinely taught against. Todd did you ever go hear Gothard in person? Gothards umbrella analogy is no different than you telling us how strictly we must obey the government. Can you deny the principle of authority the umbrella analogy teaches? Ever hear of Children obey your parents? What people miss and or dont tell is that Gothard also taught that staying in an abusive situation was not what God wanted either. The umbrellas simply taught about not being rebellious. I am certain there were people who used Gothards teaching as a launch pad for their own error. You Mr Freal surely believe ALL your sins past present and future have already been forgiven but you would never advocate that as an excuse to sin freely. But some do. Gothard like all men was fallible. So am I , so are you. Maybe I am sounding like a Gothard apologist. Maybe I am but I was there and saw nothing abusive. His teaching was affirmative of Gods love. Those who took me to his seminars were affirming of Gods love. There is a wave of Christian deconstruction going on not only in the present but also retroactively. Please be careful to not participate.

Yes the Bible says children are a blessing. It also says the man who has a lot of kids is blessed. The idea here is to desire that blessing and lots of kids. That literally means making babies, Todd. Many of them. Your argument against scripture is so solid.

Why do Gods people attack each other? Satan is the enemy.

I grew up in the UPCI and saw that umbrella used regularly. I’m still detoxing. Thank you for helping me.

Martin Lloyd-Jones once said this in a sermon on Romans 3:3 “If your presentation of the Gospel does not expose it to the charge of Antinomianism you are probably not putting it correctly. What do I mean by that? Just this: The Gospel, you see, comes as this free gift of God-irrespective of what man does. Now, the moment you say a thing like that, you are liable to provoke somebody to say, “Well, if that is so it doesn’t matter what I do.” The Apostle takes up that argument more than once in this great epistle. “What then,” he says at the beginning of chapter 6, “shall we do evil-commit sin-that grace might abound?” He’s just been saying: “where sin abounded grace does much more abound.” “Very well,” says someone. “This is a marvelous doctrine, this ‘Go and get drunk, do what you like the grace of God will put you right.'” Antinomianism. Now, this doctrine of the Scriptures-this justification by faith only, this free grace of God in salvation-is always exposed to that charge of Antinomianism. Paul was charged with it. He said, “You know, some people say that’s what I’m preaching.” Paul’s preaching was charged with Antinomianism…So I say, it is a very good test of preaching.”

We were in IBLP for several years, found it generally helpful if restrictive but took what meat was there and spat out the bones. Most of the meat was from guest speakers like the excellent, now departed, Roger Magnusson; Dr S. M. Davis; and a whole host of other worthy servants of the Lord. If you got burned, you probably were a little naive. There was some outstanding teaching and just because brother Bills kingdom building and use of young people in places/positions they never should have been went awry, doesn't mean it was all useless......because it wasn't. We used plenty of their material long after we'd left as paying members of the schooling program, and used those materials in conjunction with resources outside of ATI/IBLP. Our kids are fine and we have no beef with Bill Gothard at all, even if we could see it was going to end in tears down the stretch.

I have heard hundreds of Gothard's speeches. He taught salvation by grace. The problem was that pleasing God by following all of these things was emphasized much more than God's grace. But these things were the response to salvation, not the cause.

My parents were almost one of the "testing" families to try out Gothard's homeschool curriculum. However, my Dad had a beard and that wasn't allowed. Thankfully they thought that was ridiculous and never joined. We did attend seminars over the years in the 90's, and though we never fully believed all he taught, we knew families who were, so we were influenced by way of them. It was the early 2000's after A Matter of Basic Principles was published and we saw fully how terrible Gothard and his teachings were. Thankful to God that He brought us out of all that bad theology and legalism!

I recall zero lose-your-salvation/earn-heaven stuff from IBLP/ATI. How much "legalism" was from what people believed externally? Jo used that clip at the end to represent IBLP as "rules to stay out of hell"; but due diligence would have been to actually examine their materials.

I do think the whole critique would be better structured if in the midst of the exceprts (images and videos) used to criticize and show the wrongs of the ministry, there wouldn't also be images and videos that have nothing wrong in them and their teaching.

Clayton Community Church in Morrow Ga. suggested & promoted the membership to attend, I went to such every year & one of the big ones out of state, I forget what it was called the master one?? What was implied, understood by most in our church was IF you disagreed with the Pastor on ANYTHING then you were out from under Authority and in dangerous territory with God, I was newly Born Again and the girls in the church I was dating began to look at me as a BAD EGG if I ever just mentioned that I slightly disagreed with ANY of the churches stances

My mom took me to the Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts in approximately 1974, when I was 13ish. My dad was abusive, my mom was told by her church elders to submit, (she tried, taught me the same,) so I was pretty primed, and he definitely influenced me. The biggest thing I started consciousky doing as a result of that event was reading my Bible daily, and Scripture memorization, which didn't stick, (reading did.) But when I hear about the umbrellas of authority and such, I remember it like, "Wait, that's not true?" I know my mom tried to be so careful about "getting it right" I think because she sincerely wanted to please God. (It certainly didn't please my dad...he totally wasn't buying qny of it, he wanted submission to HIM not to Christ.) I in turn have tried to be so careful about getting it right for the same reason, but...also so God wouldn't hurt me, There's probably something still a bit broken in there, but I can't entirely blame Bill Gothard.

A baptist pastor asked me last year, "Do you have a physically disability that causes you to wear slacks?" (mind you, they were very modest and loose-fitting slacks!) I laughed until I realized he wasn't laughing with me..😵‍💫. 13 years ago another baptist pastor (at another legalistic baptist church) told me, "You need to submit to your husband in ALL things...not just when he is good to you." (my ex-husband choked and slapped me through my pregnancy) Then they handed me a book by the Pearl's "Created to be His Help Meet" ...*SERIOUSLY?!?* This same church harbored MANY abusive men...one being the husband of Joy Harris - see her horrific story on 60 Minutes Australia.... All these ungodly "pastors" will stand before God someday..... I now drive over an hour to get to a biblical church with sound biblical teaching...and it's NOT a baptist church! 😉 🥳

Todd , I was greatly enriched by some of Bill's teachings . Of course I did not buy into everything he said & I do not buy into everything you say also ! ! ! Why do you think Bill taught the things he did , and why did so many people buy into what he taught ? ? ? I think it is because when our churches only teach grace and not truth , people sense that something is very wrong and they search for truth that goes hand and hand with grace . You cannot have one without the other . They work together , Ray Comfort can explain this to you .

“Verily verily I say unto thee, unless you have 12 sons as inheritance, and oblige unto thy daughters ankle length denim skirts, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.” - Gothard 2:17

I could not disagree with this more. I'm not familiar with Gothard at all, but assume that as with all hit-pieces I'm sure they picked the worst of the worst and used that to demonize the man. People can certainly take it too far but I agree that the underlying motivation of these practical living principles is a faith in Jesus Christ that is demonstrated by the way we live and the actions we take. "Christians" nowadays consider ANY rules/restrictions on how they live life to be legalistic, but this is only because they themselves are completely lawless and are too selfish to submit to and obey God. Modern-day Christians have a worldview that leans more towards a secular worldview than a Biblical worldview, and as a result have a hard time applying any form of Biblical discernment to their lives. Modern-day lukewarm Christians want the rewards of claiming to be Christian (eternal life) while maintaining their own selfish ways and lifestyles - a major problem in America. I'm sure many "Christians" view eternal life in heaven to be a second life where they can enjoy all the things (and have worldly abilities) that they were not able to do on earth, and the focus continues to remain on themselves and not serving and worshipping God for all eternity. Sure they may stop/avoid committing the "big" sins such as sleeping around or murdering others, maybe even stealing, but they won't tolerate any lifestyle changes that impact their ability to be amused/entertained or to "enjoy" life (viewing sinful worldly movies/shows/music or listening to worldly music, YOLO (you only live once), FOMO (fear of missing out), video games, materialism, success, even women wearing totally revealing yoga pants, etc.). People can't even pull their kids out of activities/sports that conflict with Church or more specifically even avoid dance classes that use ungodly music and sexualize young girls (makeup and skimpy outfits). While there are certainly things in life that we can enjoy, this should not be the main purpose of life, the main purpose of life is to be fully dedicated servants of God and we should not expect any reward for doing so (Luke 17:9-10). The book of James (which many protestants avoid) says that our faith is shown by our works (James 1:22 and 2:18). For example, one can't say or truly demonstrate their faith that the bridge they designed is safe unless they walk across it (just like Peter walking on the water). We are called to be obedient followers of God and avoid ALL sin (1 Peter 14-16). While we don't have to follow the sacrificial or civil laws of the old testament, the things identified as sins and abominations to God in the Old Testament still constitute God's definition of righteousness and should be adhered to. The actions of Onan (while in a very specific context) were certainly not tolerated by God. People are just too selfish to understand that there is NO verse in the Bible that advocates purposefully limiting the number of children that you have, NO VERSE. Countless others promote the opposite. I don't think that this means your whole focus should be on simply procreating (but I really don't see that being an issue as there are physical limitations as to how much "seed" a man can "plant"). But in a Godly marriage there will always be opportunities for pregnancy and those opportunities should not be hindered (1 Corinthians 7:2-7). Also, people try to distort the verses on some being made eunuchs for the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:12) but it seems that this refers to men like Paul who are unmarried, not a married man/woman that purposefully mutilates their body (Deuteronomy 23:1) or utilizes pharmaceutical drugs (which we don't even know the full impact of their use) to prevent or even unknowingly terminate pregnancy (as the common pill does). Paul made it abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 7 that unlike unmarried people (who can fully focus on God), married people have to balance their time between serving the Lord (potentially in a formal ministry) and on their families. In 1 Timothy 3:3-5, elders are called to manage their house well, which cannot happen if you ignore this responsibility. This provides a perfect analogy to why the Biblical family structures are so important, if you can't manage your own house, then you are NOT qualified to manage the house of God. If you are married, you will most likely have children (according to God's plan) and you should be open to that possibility and not hinder it. You can't have your cake and eat it too (enjoy marriage and the physical relationship but hinder its main product - children) . You also can't be married and fully attend to the ministry of God (although your family is a ministry that often gets neglected by elders and pastors for more worldly edifying "church work"). If you want to be fully dedicated to God's work and not have the "hinderance of children", then you should not get married. For most of human history up until the last 100 years or so, before satanic Margaret Sanger came along, birth control was considered a terrible sin (similar to LGBTQ practices which are now accepted and promoted just like birth control). I'm struggling for the right words here but my soul is deeply troubled by peoples' lack of faith in God and the inability to fully submit to God as He calls us. The root of the issue is a lack of "Christians'" willingness to submit to God and give their lives as a living sacrifice to be obedient servants of the Lord, but instead they decide to follow their own selfish desires (wealth, time) and limit the number of children that they have accordingly. I would bet that it is far and few between where you would find a Godly married couple that their true goal of limiting the number of children they have is to allow them to better serve God - I would bet that in nearly every instance the underlying motivation is selfishness (wealth, time, energy, etc.). Regardless, doing so is unbiblical. As a final note, God's creation is a patriarchy, so following the Bible's CLEAR guidance on the structure of the home, which includes male headship and wifely submission, is not wrong. Demonization of the patriarchy is the real problem that needs to be addressed. The appropriate application of the biblical patriarchy requires first and foremost submission of the husband to God, then submission of wife to husband, and then submission of children to parents.

Good one, Todd. I heard of Gothard a number of years ago, and a pastor friend described him this way: "When you hear Gothard, think WEIRD." He was clearly correct.

I am so glad you addressed this issue, and that you want to help those who have been affected by it. I was so uncomfortable with this documentary in that it sheds a bad light on all Christians. Gothard's ministry may have brought some unbelievers to Christ, but his recent scandal has put one more layer of shade to those already skeptical of Christianity.

My friend was forced to marry a man she hardly new at 17yrs old. Her parents followed Bill Gothard and she ended up in an arranged marriage. She had 5 children and was so oppressed by this controlling awful man. She finally got the courage to get out of the mirage, she still loves the Lord very much.

What’s wrong with spanking? I thought that was biblical? I have to say Michael Pearlman and his wife do not come across as crazy in their book.

I loved Gothard seminars. I went 8 times!

Legalism is a slippery slope. Trust in Jesus and live in the love the Father has for His children.

I don't think this video gives an accurate interpretation of Psalm 127. While that passage is not commanding us to have as many children as possible, it certainly is saying that the more you have, the more blessed you will be. It is not talking about warfare. It is using the quiver as an analogy. Whether you are at war, or hunting, the more arrows you have the better. In the same way, the more children, the better. You don't have to have as many children as you possibly can, but you will be blessed for having a full quiver.

I think I may have been at “Ground Zero” when I was going Navy training in Millington, TN. I attended the Baptist Church of which Michael Pearl was the former pastor. The church had some issues with his doctrine although they didn’t tell me and I was quite young in the Lord and still had much to learn. Many in the Church were heavily into Bill Gothard and faithfully attended his seminars but since I was single and barely out of my teens, it was of little relevance to me anyway. Much of Bill Gothard’s legalism was prevalent in IFB Churches but I think Bill Gothard was part of that culture than vice versa. I finally left this “flavor” of IFB back in 2003.

I attended a Gothard conference. He never once said good works were necessary for salvation.

I agree as I hate the legalism....especially those who forbid alcohol when in 2 places OT and 2 places NT God compares (equates) drunkenness with gluttony. Forbid alcohol you must forbid food. Not that which goeth into a mouth defiles a man but that which cometh out of his mouth. The drunkenness scriptures are speaking against excessive drinking, which is a lust, as is excessive eating. One must be consistent in applying scripture.

I didn’t grow up with Gothard but I did grow up in a very authoritarian home and still struggle with understanding if I am saved. We had zero rights or opinions. Children were not to be seen or heard. Zero privacy or trust from my mom. I try to be as spot on as I can with my behavior and thoughts. I was taught to strive for as close to perfection as possible and if I sin then I must do something to atone for my mistakes. So much guilt and stress… I will never measure up to the strict standards that were placed on me as a child.

Good observations and opinions; I concur. I have always rejected any "authority" that doesn't align with the whole of Scripture, I just walk away. It is true that authority tends to corrupt, and absolute authority corrupts absolutely. Be wise and don't take abuse, even if it's in the name of God.

I remember when B.G. called out Pastor in South Atlanta and asked if there were any members that were certified to fly a private jet, at the time ole B.G. was flying like the False prophets of "Faith".

This may be the best video I have seen from this channel. Makes me want to watch more.

Lol wow, I do have some issues with Bill G. but I couldn't help but to keep thinking everything said was just applicable to Calvinism. 😮