Why the 'Holy Trinity' doesn't exist in the 4th Generation. 

I feel the same way

i think most people feel this way because it's honestly so true. I once thought they debuted in 2016 lol.

ooo that’s not..

They are 4th? I always think of them as 3rd too since Soyeon were in Produce 101 along with the 3rd gen idols and Miyeon was trained with Blackpink members 😆 But yeah, they are practically gen 4; debuted in 2018. That year is pretty much too early for gen 4 but too late for gen 3

@@littlecherrybloosom9950 which is why itzy, gidle, izone,everglow are gen 3.5 for me. They represent a shift in kpop culture away from 3rd gen and still different from 4th gen. Earliest grp I can accept into gen 4 are aespa and stayC from late 2020. The groups debuting now are way different from those in 2018-2019. Kpop culture is changing so fast, maybe duration of a gen has shortened? Maybe the groups debuting last year are gen 5. One can define as they please.

very good observation!

@@pigeondance thanks!

i’ve been thinking this!

This

I feel like kpop stans like you try to make it all about kpop, that's called comparison, people are going to be compared to other people no matter what, it's not a kpop thing, you can be compared in anything and that "the next" type of comparison can be found in so many industries, such as sports and gaming

Wasn't there a Holy Trinity for male groups in 3rd gen in kpop ?

@@rubystarsly166 idk maybe it was like BTS, Exo, GOT7

@@_L10 Wanna One and Seventeen were also top groups tho.

EXO and BTS definitely the other position is vacant

@@_L10 Defintely not GOT7 😂

The part where twice, blackpink nd red velvet became holy trinity was in 2017 or somewhere around that... Even in 3rd gen groups like gfriend, mamamoo etc received a lot of appreciation for their music.... Hell gfriend nd mamamoo music performed same as holy trinity in charts which stayc, billlie have yet to do. They have an audience but other than that nobody cares about them... While gfriend nd mamamoo transcended across fandoms...

mystic story (billlie) is a child company of sm lmao

"High quality music" makes no sense at all, that is why kpop fandoms are divided because each group have different genre and a different way of executing it. R&b, edm, rock, ballad, miami bass etc. You may like the ballad or the edm but another percentage of kpop fans doesn't like them, you may not like the way a song is transitioned from one genre to another yet another percentage of kpop fans may like them. And Billlie is still by half belongs to SM entertainment (still in the Big3)

@@potathottwit7604 high quality production is objectively wise high quality music despite the genre

*Cube, Starship, Woollim,* FNC and Source all produced high-quality material in the third generation.

New Jeans is an interesting phenomenon because it has reached a vast audience outside the kpop bubble and most of the numbers they are doing now are from people who just like good music, and do not fit the role of kpop stan as we know

@@Jh0nVieira it is

People were always there to be part of the majority, you can see it in everything, people will flock to what's popular regardless of if it's good or not, like for example, Cardi B

@@Jh0nVieira This factor could led to NewJeans be the face of 4th gen kpop..

its funny the term switching up is being used... i think bandwagoning is more appropriate. which is why im seeing so many people say these groups will have a popular single or have hype for a debut then after their debut people will seemingly forget about them just to hop onto the next rookie group just to say they were there from the beginning

Best explanation thank you

this is exactly it. boy groups are a slower burn and girl groups burn fast and bright, so the 3rd gen groups with the strongest fanbases were the ones that maintained their longevity

They also each were the top group of each big three companies.

How is it misogynistic?

@@FlyingAnanas-337 in my opinion, it treats women/girls as expendable. only the coolest,prettiest and youngest ggs are allowed to have all on eyes on them with undivided attention. girl groups are already at a disadvantaged in terms of longevity, so the holy trinity pushes out the autonomy of ggs and treats them as self insert characters or mysterious untouchable ingénues. this type of idolisation is exclusive to ggs, bgs are afforded the ability to be mediocre with large dedicated fanabses. however for ggs, their careers are on a strict expiry date and susceptible to fickle fans.

@@thesweetestgirlintown I don't think that's true. The stuff you listed just makes it easier to market themselves. If you're cool, pretty and especially young you appeal to the big big market that is young people/children. It's really all in the way the company wants to market gg. Also if a bg starts lacking it will always reflect badly in the fandom.

It's not misogynistic it's just people trying to replicate an idea that was created and made sense in 3rd gen, and implement in 4th gen but it just doesn't work because it's totally different from 3rd gen

@@salembejaoui1880 the entire basis of “holy trinities” and the “it girl” phenomenon is rooted in misogynistic beliefs! however you won’t change my opinion and neither will i yours so let’s agree to disagree ~~

GIDLE is not the most popular 4th gen ggs right now, but they're THE MOST INFLUENTIAL. Like how many times they were cited and rewarded as being the best gg in terms of visionary and trend making. They won visionary award and equalled to BTS in terms of positive influence.

But gidle bsides are weak.

@@sieunloversclub WDYM mean with weak? STAYC b-side famous only in Spotify, GIDLE B-side literally charting well in SK and China. And not to mention none STAYC B-side is more famous than My Bag and LION. Go out of your bubble you token stan STAYC leave daughters alone.

@@sieunloversclub have you listened to their full discography? in my opinion, their bsides and albums are some of the strongest in terms of cohesion and image

@@beepboopbaap2511 yes, I listened to the complete discography, only the latest release in English that I didn't.

seriously underrated!!!!!

Fr❤

yeah 4th gen girl group market is so fricking competitive! literally in 2019 ITZY were dominating and Everglow was a thing and popular. Now throughout the years Itzy have gotten...well...less known. Everglow disappeared. Aespa blew up literally but also aren't that big anymore? Following that with IVE who had an even bigger start that we thought couldnt get bigger and then we had LESSERAFIM who had further ahead an EVEN bigger start and are already one of the most popular 4th gen groups with 9m spotify monthly listeners and we thought it couldnt get bigger and we have the legend of all rookies NewJeans who are not acting like rookies at all and are already amongst the biggest kpop groups if we just look at some of the achievements theyve made 💀💀💀 It just seems like these girl groups are become more and more popular as a whole with kpop but like...nobodys really sticking to them? Its like the general public is there for them when they release hit songs but the general public loves to attend to every new girl group that comes out every year or so now, they make a huge hit and then the general public leaves them after a while. 4th gen girl groups are completely based on whether the song they release becomes a hit or not. They dont really have a strong fanbase like 4th gen boy groups do. And ofc now talking about the 4th gen BGs... theyre much more stable. We have a clear domination of TXT and SKZ since the beginning and that has stayed throughout the years. Other BGs have come like Enhypen and Treasure but they couldnt surpass these two. Theres no weird sudden hits coming from 4th gen BGs, which may be because the general public only listens to 4th gen girl groups. I don't know what is better tbh, to have a strong fanbase that sticks with you? or to have a couple hit songs that everyone listens to? IMO the first is better. Because throughout the 3-4 years, so many big 4th gen girl groups came and many more have gotten forgotten or less popular. But 4th gen BGs like TXT and SKZ have only continued to get bigger and bigger with each comeback and will continue to do so. The hits generated from the girl group side will become bigger and bigger with new GGs, but these two BGs will keep on growing enough to compete with these hits.

@@aaaamxr that's true that's why general public is fickle, new jeans is carried by GP craze just like past girl groups, u will see the same pattern with baby mon, new jeans have lots of listeners and popularity but their voting, etc. Is low cuz they don't really have a core fandom yet mostly casual listeners, fandom power shows in the albums, voting etc. This is why aespa still has the most core fandom in 4th gen gg even after less promotions and few songs, their fandom is strong, itzy is also second to them, babymon will prolly also be next for having a strong core fandom, this is just my observation from what I have noticed but gg's like le seraffim, IVE etc. Are mostly dependent on their former izone members who had strong fandom for their fandom power, kazuha is the only non-izone member i can think of who can keep up with them. Having GP in ur side is nice, infact very good but longetivity is carried by the core fandom, this is why boygroups usually last longer than gg even tho they don't have general public attention much aside from BTS

difference in marketing rookies, companies market girl groups towards the public (which is what most of the companies are doing now especially with how girl groups are in the rise) while they market boy groups towards the people who will like the *niche* genre they'll put out. personally think jyp is going with the fandom-centric marketing with both their girl groups and boy groups like the difference between the chart performance and the album sales is showing (not that the chartings were bad, they just were not on par with other girl groups that stayed in charts for a whole year) and they're actually quite smart for that.

​@@aaaamxr And you know what is even worst is that will still be the case. This years SM, YG, HYBE will AGAIN debut new girls group.

​​@@aaaamxr and i feel like that IZ*ONE was probably the only 4th GG who really build a REAL fanbase if this group was permanent they will probably still a the TOP. They were both popular in their HOME country but also outside at à time were group like TWICE and BP were still a the TOP and still considered new. I think if Wanna One or X1 were still active the 4th BG environment would be very different also

Same here! I had Ring x Ring on repeat when it first came out. I love Billlie, their songs are 100% streamable.

@@youweremymuse Ring X Ring is an absolute mental _masterpiece._ First time I heard it, my thinking was "This is insane, I have no idea what's going on, and I _love_ it."

@@youweremymuse Ring X Ring is by far their best song, such a strange sound and it fits with who they are so well :)

(G)I-DLE was able to build a solid fandom and theirs sound are not experimental like Itzy sounds can be + they started earlier which is even better.

You always judge by the opinion of the current moment, gidle had its failed times too.

@@bosskpop5710idle is def more experimental then itzy

what songs did Sophie produce for them???

@@sylv_exter5272 24hrs

@@sylv_exter5272 24hrs! The vibe is just different, I love it and hope they Collab with other similar producers in the future

the girls deserve so much better

sm keeps delaying their comeback because of the drama between lsm and chris lee

Don't forget that THE PRODUCE Series also contribuate to the formation of power group from middle size companies. If IZ*ONE wasn’t a things IVE wouldn't be as popular and Starship would be struggle a LOT.

Excellent points!

Tbh... I am so much liking 4th gen music because as you said.. So much variation!! Really fun!! In my opinion..4th gen even tied close to 2nd gen, when it comes to variations. Like 2nd gen has the girl crush(2ne1, beg1), cute (Apink, early SNSD), weird but good (orange caramel), retro inspired (T-ara), varied concepts (after school, K-ara, 4-minute,SNSD), sexy (Sistar, Hyuna, AoA, Secret, etc). 3rd gen is the most boring one because of the said Holy Trinity.. not much came out at this time.

@@yachishairclips2250 its funny you say that, i feel like most mainstream music started to stagnate circa 2011 which is about when 3rd gen started. whether it was r&b, metal, pop etc... i feel like that era was just so boring. in regard to pop, it became so bubblegum and technoy and uninspired. it wasnt until 2015ish that artists found some kind of spark whether it was mixing pop with drill and/or trap (which gained traction around 2013) or 80s and 90s pop throwbacks (right now) as well as hyperpop gaining popularity.

I know right!!!

You got it exactly right. We need to consider the lasting impact they had/still have.

The iz*one erasure is insane. If we're talking about not being active in the whole 4th gen, then we shouldn't consider newly debuted groups either. In terms of influence, they are up there with g-idle. iz*one pioneered the new golden age of girl groups, leaving a lasting impact in the industry with ALL of the members doing well now in their own fields. For such a big group with each member still being influential... SNSD is the only one I can think of who have achieved the same. imo they are the true avengers of kpop 😂

YEESSSSS. They are also mostly self-produced and some members are all-rounders. major slay.

2nd gen's 3rd contestant to holy trinity is debatable, SNSD and 2ne1 are staples... This is because 2nd gen is also divided into 2... early 2nd gen where cutesy concepts thrive and pater part of 2nd gen where sexy concepts thrive... K-ara, Sistar, AoA or Apink had their big moments during 2nd gen

Ggs have always been for both genders, stop with that male gaze bs, even now there are more male fans than it was back then, i am a 1st gen listener, ggs were always popular, it's just their companies that were the root of bad sexualization and incel male fans, other than that they also had tons of female fans, it's no doubt gp likes boygroups more but one of the reason is because 4th gen bgs songs are horrible, only some are listenable, back then we had ikon, bigbang, exo, etc. Who released Gp friendly songs

Aespa and stayc fandom are more loyal amoung korean. International (western one the Japanese and soith asian) fan in general less loyal. Don't really take them too serious

@@auspiciouslyray8379 I'm honestly so exited!!!

Thankfully, another "Beautiful Monster" fan!

@@birchlawpa 💖

4th gen is already close. Analyst and Mnet announced that 2023 is the years of 5th generation bcuz most 4th gen groups would be have 5/4 years this.

I can't wait; it'll be my first comeback as a proper Belllie've, and it *may* drop while I'm actually in Korea... 🤞

I love Billie so much but the underappreciation 😭😭😭... New jeans, ITZY, Billie, lesserafirm, Aespa, Ive fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!! ❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️

Instead of aespa i would say le sserafim aespa hasn't had a comeback in a long time and they aren't even talked about except for winter and karina who are in GOT

ITZY should be the first half instead of LOONA. LESSERAFIM for the 2nd half instead of Aespa.

for the first half of fourth gen it was defo gidle aespa and itzy

@@hxcneeey3604 it doesn’t matter if they are not talked about recently. Before that they have achievements that any 4th gg is yet to achieve so excluding aespa cause they haven’t had a cb would be stupid. They’re arguably the most successful 4th gen gg in some aspects.

The Loona sneak is crazy 😭

@@user-sk2uj5ey9y I understand your sentiments, but 44M views in 6 months on just the official MV do not make a flop. It is problematic, but I wouldn't go so far a "flop."

The reason why they reach the general public is because the creative team targeted western fans (since bts made kpop more popular) by copying black artists from the early 90s to late 2000's music. Kpop has never been known for its generic pop but rather the quirky image and music. Look at IVE, Le sserafim, Fifty Fifty, and New Jeans, they go for the "trend" and most likely their songs will go mainstream in the near future. This is the main problem and the only reason to prevent that is to be innovative and epxlore different genre without changing it drastically just like how Weeekly and ITZY took a huge turn. They need to pull a TWICE card, from the crush to mature concept since this girls are definitely gonna grow more and will have the likes to explore.

@@potathottwit7604 EXACTLY. and since they're 11 year old cute Korean girls it's okay... I just hate how their fans act like they're concept is some revolutionary work of art and every other group's concept is "bad" and "bland"

@King 89 just because one of their songs had inappropriate lyrics not suited for their age it doesn’t reflect on the overall success of the grp and nwjs for one aren’t flops from debut to now they have been breaking records after records maybe I der stand what flips are before saying mindlessly that a rapidly growing monster rookie grp has flopped alr even with how Inappropriate cookie you can’t deny that a hell lot of people was still listening to it

@@user-sk2uj5ey9y90 mil streams on spotify..

Well it’s prob cus holy trinity was used to describe gg only as bg has what we call BSE during third gen which were quite literally the biggest and gastet growing boy grps of their time exo bts and svt furthermore you had the others like monsta x wanna one ikon got7 pentagon Astro tgere wasn’t really a word or way to really describe the holy trinity of bg back then even now every bg is equally as good and all have made their own impact in their own way txt enha skz ATEEZ tbz not to mention in a league of their own nct made up of two generations of artist it’s really harder to say the best among bg compared to ggs

BINGO!

no it’s just 4th gen. and will forever be 4th gen. no 4.5. it’s literally like 3rd gen, at first it was red velvet, mamamoo and gfriend and the later on when it ended it because bp twice and rv. no 3.5 gen or any nonsense. the fact of the matter is we won’t know who the holy trinity will be until 5th gen starts. also it’s always felt that it’s going too fast in prior gens, the only difference now is that gg are actually being tossed away instead of all of them dominating at the same time. it’s so disheartening to watch

Kinda diff actually itzy concept is focusing on self love while lsf focus more on being strong as your own person and showing others that you aren’t easy to break

I like the way you think!

International fans overestimate ITZY a bit too much

Lesserafim haven't done anything impactful enough to be apart of a holy trinity I think they need some more time to grow but for now I wouldn't put them in a holy trinity unlike aespa with there insane album sales and achievements and itzy with there viral dances and songs and G-idle with there massive growth in popularity and IVE with all there achievements and newjeans with breaking bts's own achievements lesserafim haven't done anything really

@@princessaroyale you didn't see any articles on them breaking records of album sales in Japan and they're have the most monthly listeners after New jeans in 4th gen, fastest group to reach 100 million streams on Spotify with antifragile, their antifragile is still in was in top 10 for eight weeks, the song is still in global hundred after almost 4 months

@@princessaroyale i guess you are not quite understanding this video Re-watch and rethink again 👀

@@princessaroyale LESSERAFIM are trending everywhere wtf

@@princessaroyale the disrespect tf

i wouldn’t put stayc in the holy trinity (as of yet 👀) they’re my ult 4th gen group so they’re #1 for me but i’m saying this based on their general public opinion. HOWEVER stayc seems to be taking their next comeback to the next level like they’re taking it very seriously this time it seems like the promotion for it in big in korea. the reason i don’t think we have a holy trinity in 4th gen is #1 like you said because there are a lot more groups in 4th gen #2 because i think holy trinity really came out to be as twicepinkvelvet by the end of the generation like before the conversation also included gfriend and ioi similarly to how the conversation includes like 10 groups. i think iz*one was really really influential so they should be considered one of the greatest 4th gen groups and they are but similarly to ioi they were a project group, sadly if they lasted longer they would definitely be like at the top but ive/lesserafim are carrying their legacy even if the music is different. if we’re ever gonna have a holy trinity which we might not it’ll be in a few years in my opinion.

U r the majority. I don't understand why? I think Checkmate is a very good EP and Cheshire a song with a lot flow and sensational choreography

the same thing is unfortunately going to happen to these new ggs after they release ONE bad song. the way ive’s discography is flawless and everyone agreed until they saw how big they were becoming and is now a punching bag for everyone

YG only debuted treasure during the 4h gen. They don't have 4th gen GG representation and Analysts announced that all 2023 debut group would be under 5th generation so the next gg according to koran analysts and expert are 5th generation gg