I'm Irish lived in Ireland my whole life and istg every time I see an American Irish person going on about how they're of "Irish ancestry" and act “stereotypically Irish” or act like they might as well have lived here because they visited tourist attractions one time here and then they actually don’t know anything about our culture or history It gets on my nerves, like it feels disrespectful especially when more often than not those people only know 1: weren’t considered white 2:potato famine 3: A lot of us emigrated to America Please just educate yourself if you’re going to claim you’re Irish at least learn about things like idk years of civil war , the language which is still present despite the last monolingual Gaeilge speaker long gone, how we actually act generally, etc. Anyways sorry for the rant, just read or talk to someone actually from Ireland
Cherokee here bub feel ya. Especially family lore "Cherokee" or DNA website correlate strong with the American Irish you're describing. Gramps was a ginger Cherokee so need to look into the dividing roots lol.
That's why I try to phrase it as, "yeah, that's where my genes trace back to." Or something like that. Technically, that's true, but my family has been in America since at least the early 1800s so I'm very far removed and I don't feel right equating myself to those in the culture. Would love to learn more about the culture and my roots in general, though. Just don't know where to start.
@@succo_di_re5484 to white nationalists and the like, Italians are not white. We are middle eastern. Sat down with this guy bc I was like you know, probably not ever guna talk to a white nationalist again, so might as well get an understanding. While I gained some, but I am now twice as confused as I was before. Like this dude what half Hispanic and he thought he was this 100% white, and him being Hispanic was a "common myth spread in America". He brought up Italians, to which I said I was, and he said I couldn't be because I didn't have the correct bone structure. The fact my mother my mother literally came on a boat says otherwise, but okay. He said Italians share the same bone structure, and a few other things I don't quite remember, with "what you would probably refer to as someone from the middle east or sand...." I'm sure you get that. And honestly those people are just gross. I don't think it matters if you are white. Like why? Does it? Not one country, religion, culture, or ideology that links "white" people. And I also don't understand why the right wingers "who don't care about race" defend whiteness. Like not to be overly political, but if you're trying to tell me it's not about race, why do you keep talking about it? And it's because they all would rather make us think you hate me and I hate you because you're this and I'm that. Because outrage gives them money. The media and the politicians, they all rather watch you burn it down and see who wins than to not dump gasoline on the fire. Thats why mitch McConnell voted on gun control and the democrats never prevented the overturning of Roe. Abortion and gun control are issues those 2 sides know are hard pressed issues for their constituents, the more they can say they're taking away your rights, the more money and power they have. Any way, fuck anyone who wants to promote separation or anger towards other groups. We are all people.
@@1972Ray Religious bigotry. Being excluded or mistreated on account of the fact a person was Catholic was very common in the U.S. because the nation was (and still is) mostly protestant. Read about Bloody Monday, the Philadelphia nativist riots, and the KKK's anti Catholic movement in the 1920s. This is to say bigotry is not just about race.
@@CoyoteCatalystStill doesn’t mean they weren’t black catholics. A lot of melanated people had Catholicism forced onto them. Still before religion still those people existed and they were melanated. Look up the Twa people. The ancient people of Ireland.
@CoyoteCatalyst still present in north America to this day, i encounter folks accusing us of idolatry, all sorts of evil, of not being christians, saying we are evil or at least our church is evil which for a catholic is highly offensive, etc that is what i see in more conservative parts of Canada. In more liberal parts we are every phobe and ist under the sun, viewed like devils etc. I imagine in america it must still be strong too.
Had nothing to do with their "whiteness", it was sectarian-based. For those not in the know, Irish people are majority Catholic Christians. When fleeing Ireland because of their actual oppressors in the form of the UK government and the attempted genocide of the Gaelic Irish, they left for foreign lands. Foreign lands that practised the same Protestantism and secratian beliefs as the English did. The KKK hated Irish folk and Italians, because of their Catholicism. It has nothing to do with race, and the racial argument falls apart when you know the actual history. Sincerely, an Irish person.
Yes, when Kennedy was running for president in the US in 1960 a key concern in Kennedy's campaign was the widespread skepticism among Protestants about his Roman Catholic religion. Some Protestants, especially Southern Baptists and Lutherans, feared that having a Catholic in the White House would give undue influence to the Pope in the nation's affairs. It wasn't skin color.
Shockingly, someone whose not irish still got their history wrong lmao. Good on ya for putting in your two cence. It's nice to have someone from the people being spoken about actually respond.
@@ladellg267 On top of this, the Draft Riots in New York during the 1800s were due to the American "nativists", who were White American protestants who viewed the Catholic Irish and Italians, as well as Romani people, Chinese, Indians, English and all kinds of migrants as "invaders" to the American lands. While it did have a lot of racial overtones, the fact remained that these people HATED Irish and Italians on the basis that they were Catholic, not due to their racial identity. Gangs of New York talk about this event.
I am irish and have zero issues with irish americans, most of their ancestors left in a time of need and i welcome them home whenever i meet them, for their own family its a big deal to visit home so to speak and i wish them all well - i have many US cousins myself some went to boston over 100 years ago and we are still in touch with their decendants - i also have cousins in seattle and nyc - one fifth of the signatories of the US decleration of independence were Irish born
Thank you! Not everything has to be about victimization and complaining about Americans. It’s the oldest meme at this point. But it still gets the clicks.
Omg..thank you for saying this...when I went where my ancestors came from, I got to see a monument built by the Irish to Native Americans as a thanks for them sending money and food even though they had so little also. It never takes away from a groups struggle to acknowledge the struggle of another group. ❤️
I pass that monument every week. Is this is the one near Midleton? Yes, the Indian tribe donated food during the famine , even though they so little themselves. It’s a lovely monument. Must look up which tribe it was.
Yeah but Ireland had a lot of Spanish and basque in it , the Basque left the east central Asia area to Spanish and French mountain area then on west ward with a lot in USA Mexico and South America , the reason that those signs were there was jobs , an old aunt told me the Irish got it when they came and the Italian and the polish after the war , coming to take take the jobs , which was true in a way , dagger John tells a story of Irish going on the boat to USA and the women had to sleep sitting up or a man would be on them , if you watch far and away it tells the same story dagger John does that the Irish were drunks , he became a priest to help them change their ways and gain jobs and better themselves , of course not all were like that , but today South Africa is not letting anyone in even other Africans because they don't have the jobs for their own , sign says no foreigners no wht's no blks , we have enough , 😂 ,
During covid there was a donation from Irish people to Native American tribes that gave to us during the famine. It was something like 2.5 million euro. We have never forgotten that kindness.
The kindness love support and solidarity, your people showed mine, is the very reason me and my family are alive. That kindness that was given, even after the hardships your people suffered over, the trail of tears, will never be forgotten. My children know our history and so will there’s. The food they got, the men gave to the women and children so they would survive. Our family will be forever grateful to your people.
@@smallfeet4581im Celtic not Spanish, not Mexican or black or arab or asian stop the hate you feel for my country, my people. Bad enough that your people tried to exterminate us and it wasn't about jobs its because when you enslaved us you had the firm intention of putting us all in the grave. We have nothing in common you and i you're rich born that way always will be. At least the indigenous peoples of the United States not Mexican's who helped us in our time of need ask yourself why a real Irishman hates you. Ask yourself how different we are. Im not protestant just so you know. Im from the north of Ireland. Strabane.
I wonder how many people would get offended by that? Is it because, in that moment they realized how horrible they were acting? Or are they too self-critical? Or would they walk off with their heads held high? Under the assumption that the sun shines out of their ass?
My first Irish ancestor in America was exiled by Cromwell into slavery in Barbados. Within a short period of time, the British outlawed slavery but left the humans they had kidnapped and exiled without any way to return home. My ancestor was able to be placed into indentured servitude with a merchant from Massachusetts, hence he was the first Irish Catholic in Massachusetts.
@@Englishman_and_mountains Prisoner / kidnapped kind of the same thing as the laws then were harsh, steal a loaf of bread = 7 yrs hard labor. Who knows what his "crime' was, fighting for his homeland? thats not a crime, after losing should be allowed to go back to his family. But being sold into slavery isn't that kidnapping? I think it is.
@@Englishman_and_mountains is it even possible that that morally balances Cromwell’s cruelty along with the other cruelties that 800 years of colonization brought on Irish people ☘️💚🇮🇪
It doesn’t violate any community guidelines on any platform yet it absolutely implies some rude ass shit lol and as it should 💯💯💯 I’ve been saying this for a while now it makes people stop and think “wait a minute… what do they mean by that have the day that I deserve they obviously don’t mean to have a good day or they would’ve said that” it sends ass holes down a rabbit hole that they can’t climb out of 💁🏼♀️😂💯🫶🏼
It's either the nicest or the coldest thing that can be said to you, and that can only be determined by the person it's being told to, astonishing. I'm stealing it.
@@ashton1952 no it wasn’t not. There were laws in place in the us to differentiate slavery from indentured servitude: the biggest of which being slavery was a life long thing and indentured servitude would end after 5-7 years. Indentured servants had rights that slaves did not.
@@KindredKaye yeah the Brit’s also said the same thing for indias “indentured servants” that were forced to be shipped like cattle on sugar farm to the Americas. And which caused a famine that killed over 2 million on purpose for Mr Churchill. Oh and this was mad recent, not 100-200 years ago like the Irish. Own your history. Stop trying to make it less gross as it was
Ya it's pretty typical for liberals that struggle to explain their insane beliefs. Like this guy's inability to comprehend the difference between Irish prejudice and being white...
People in the US these days try so hard to be "unique" or "different" by acting like they're from a different culture when they are mainly american and don't know the history of the culture they try imitating. Like Mexican Americans, African Americans, Irish Americans, Italian Americans etc.
My mother (a Jamacian immigrant to the UK ) shared a house with a irish woman when she first came to the UK, for the very policy of " no Irish, no Blacks , no dogs policy. Auntie Leesha was not to be messed with.she would become my Godmother. When i heard overwhelming racist retorts from irish americans i was truly baffled. Rest in peace Mummy and Auntie Leesha❤ I've also lived in Dublin and I have seen and heard how pissed off actual Irish ppl get when they hear some of the bs Irish Americans spout.
"No Irish, no blacks, no dogs policy," the very same thing that happened in the USA. Depending on the area "no Italian or no Chinese, etc. Etc." Which makes this videos narrative moot. There is no country in existence that did not have racism or slavery. But there are still countries that have and practice slavery in the countries it all originates from. So when Middle Eastern/asian and African countries end slavery. Then we can have an actual talk.
My parents house here in the US still had it's original paperwork and on the contract it says "No Livestock, No (blacks)". This was rural Maryland in the 40's.
@zanthosazure3293 you missed the point of the video. He wasn't denying that others were enslaved or treated as less than others. He was calling out that IN FACT Irish Americans (who some love to other, others) were INDEED othered themselves.
"Have someone read you this book"! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Dear Sir, you have the ability to throw overt shade so subliminally. I thought I was good at that but YOU'RE THE G.O.A.T!
@@rauminen4167 Not celebrating, Educating people to understand that many people who think they are white (and might be prejudiced) will see where they really came from and how hard their Ancestors lives were, it's showing history, and I believe hopefully bringing people together.
I’m studying to be a history professor and this is one of the things I find most interesting. Ethnicities that used to be tied to specific nations, (Irish, Italian, Greek, etc) are now all just “White.” I’m not sure where this change occurred, but it’d be interesting to look into.
Easy look at the non-white white people and the time period that they mass immigrated into this country, they wasn't going to get adopted into the white republic until they understood and participated in the white supremacy systems in this country.
Something I just recently learned, in addition to African-Americans many sundown towns included Irish individuals amongst the ones that should not be found inside towns after sundown.
The Irish and Scottish were some of the cruelest overseers of the enslaved in the U.S. and the Caribbean. It's not all or nothing. The U.S had more of a CASTE system but the Irish were able to navigate it to their White skinned advantage every generation, *though in different permutations.* Later generations were not as welcome as earlier. Remember, the concept if WHITENESS was new as well. SO MANY PLANTERS were of Irish decent and were the wealthiest families in the U.S. pre-Industrialization. The story is not as simple as many would like to make it.
As an irish american that has spent equal halves of his life in ireland and new york currently living in louth, my experience has been that the true irish dont appreciate their heritage being reduced to a fashion accessory that is often associated with the worst stereotypes ex. Alcoholism. Claiming to be irish and buying into those stereotypes is disingenuous and insulting. Doesnt matter where youre from or who you are itd be like me having asian heritage and walking around with a racist straw hat and squinting my eyes, it’s ridiculous. That’s not to say the irish cant have a laugh and joke about stereotypes but when it becomes the way people perceive the irish generally thats an issue.
@@godlessplaytime4256 Alcohol is part of our culture for the past 3000 years We also have some of the lowest rates of Alcohol abuse in Europe So in other words go back to your opium filled tan land 2.0 Your not irish don't tell us anything about this country your a guest nothing worse thana tourist telling us how to be irish.
dear sir, I like yourself have spent my years between Ireland and the states. I'm from the west of Ireland but lived two years in the mid-70s in the midst of chaos in Belfast being 5 and 6 at the time. I would like to know when does it satisfy you to take away someone's being Irish. remember this as you answer and about the famine I give two f**** I'm talking about the ones that had to leave because of those shites port side of ya. so am I allowed to still call myself Irish or is it my children that are not allowed to call themselves Irish. lets really find out what you say is okay to be Irish, what about all the boys at Gallipoli? listen to this as this is reality. it was my family and families like mine who did all the fighting for your family who obviously had no problem just doing what they were told, that truly is reality.
@@milosevicmihajlo499 I don't think the quality of the insult has anything to do with the correctness or incorrectness of his statements. Also, it's not wrong about the Irish.
As an Irish American this bothers me too. I wrote my dissertation on how there was cross pollination between black civil rights leaders and Irish Republican leaders. Thank you for making this video! Fun thing, I’m learning Irish right now and during the George Floyd protests a bunch of Irish American cops inadvertently wore shirts saying Black Lives Matter because they thought it was blue lives matter in Irish. But it read blue men lives matter which is Irish for black people because in Irish black was considered a shade of blue. My friend speaks Irish fluently and confirmed this to me when I asked him.
The Irish for black is ‘dubh’ and the devil is called ‘fear dubh’ which means ‘black man’. Obviously they’re weren’t going to call actual black men the same term as we use for devil so it’s became ‘fear gorm’ which is ‘blue man’.
Thank you so much brother ❤ I'm Irish, I'm a dub (from Dublin 💪) and we were persecuted for years under British rule. It was illegal for us to speak our language, own land, practice our religion, keep our Gaelic names or work for ourselves under colonisation. We were considered slaves and our country was under British rule for 800 years until we fought back and used guerilla warfare to claim our land back. This was an oppressed country, kept under rule and literally living in third world conditions until we fought back. Northern Ireland was considered a war zone up until the mid 90's. We were treated like shit, had our land taken off us, petty criminals were shipped off to Australia to be sent to jail.......sent across the world, in one case for stealing potatoes cos the child was facing starvation. We know slavery, we know colonisation, we know discrimination and we fucking fought tooth and nail to be able to call ourselves Irish 🇮🇪❤🇮🇪❤🇮🇪❤🇮🇪
I do have Irish heritage but there is no way in hell I’m claiming the culture or anything. Y’all spelling is way to stupid. The rest of it is very cool (especially the history) but that spelling. Mmmm yah nah thanks. Edit: made the AA meeting mad lol.
Speaking as an Irish man and former freedom fighter here in Ireland skin colour is nothing to do with it, I'm so sorry you got those comments... love from Ireland 🇮🇪
@@ADogNamedStay I can GUARANTEE that is NOT what, “have someone read you the following book” was meant to imply. To spell it out, politely telling the commenter (that “knew” that Irish were always considered white (to the point of laughing at “RedMenace80”) strictly because they are “of the fairest skinned gene pool) to “have someone read you the following book” is meant to imply 1 of 2 things about the commenter. They are either: 1. not old enough to read and therefore are in need of someone else to read and explain the book to this young Irish American. - OR - 2. That the Irish-American is obviously not capable of reading and/or understanding an adult level, non-fiction book such as “How the Irish Became White.” so they should ask someone capable of such reading and understanding to Read the book TO THEM. Mature people can often have polite sounding conversations that, when listened to closely, are NOT actually polite.
Speaking as Gael-Mheiricéanach myself - it is very true that Irish were not always considered white and is a fact we Irish should be very aware of. However, it is also important to know that the reason so many Irish-Americans are ignorant and disconnected from their heritage is because of that history of ethnic discrimination. Most Irish-Americans are raised to think of ourselves as Irish in a "hush hush" way, but not told much of anything about our own culture because we were traditionally pressured into hiding it. The end result is a deeply felt but also repressed affair that doesn't lean itself into learning this sort of thing.
@@Ardoyne-jx4tv An Irish American is an American who either immigrated from Ireland or is the descent of such. That's what I am, by definition. My culture has nothing to do with you. Another point - culture is something that is shared, by definition and nature. The idea of someone "taking your culture" is like saying someone is "taking" a book you like by liking it too. It's not just yours and by definition can't be.
I have spent some time reading old newspapers from New York from the 1850s - 1880s for a research project. In the "Help Wanted" sections, wealthy people would place ads looking for cooks or servants, and they would frequently specify that they were looking for a "reliable Protestant girl". This was the "genteel" way to discriminate against Irish immigrants, because the vast majority of Irish immigrants to America were Catholic.
Reliable protestant girl ,, ? So not because they were considered reliable but because they didn't want a catholic girl. Thsts sad people discriminating because of their religion. Protestant or catholic, both are Christian and supposed to love one another... Especially when ya think about it like , 500 or so years ago , before protestantism came along EVERY Christian was a catholic .. 2000 years of christianity, for 1500 of them everyone was catholic. In those last 500 years since Protestantism started, its separated into many different forms of what a protestant is . ...religion is so hypocritical.. I'm English born but half Irish ( ma) i had many school holidays with family in Ireland , during the 60s 70s , when people were shooting or blowing each other up because protestant hated catholic and catholic hated protestants... Poxy religion...
😂😂😂😂irish people are white...simple...Anglo british tension is mainly a religious thing certainly nothing to do with race..and is a dog a race? The irish know all about oppression.. the irish are proud fighting people so they tend not to sit around waiting for handouts and demanding they get reparations for a very select period of history..
@@kevwhufc8640well, no, Catholics didn’t hate Protestants and you had no problems in the Republic (besides de IRA who was already prosecuted by the Garda), it was the other way around, no Catholic Irish was able to go to NI and have no troubles, so much that people used to leave cars parked before the border fearing their cars getting torched.
@@gosonegr how old are you ? What do you even know about Ireland , real life I mean, & not some nonsense propaganda you've read . Do you really think they were all best buddies ? That the Irish catholic loved the orange parades & all joined in the fun with the protestants !! Just from what you've said you obviously don't know anything about it. What do you mean Catholics couldn't go to northern Ireland ? You've obviously never been, otherwise you would have seen the curb stones painted in the Republican colours and the sides/ ends of houses with huge images of IRA soldiers with a machine gun and slogans, it was the same in the loyalist area curbs painted , houses with images and slogans, People outside Ireland think those terror groups are gone, disappeared since the GFPA, but they haven't, they might not be as high profile, not bombing or killing, kidnapping, but they both run protection rackets, control drugs, and other criminal activities.
@@kevwhufc8640 I live in Ireland, not far from where the long fella was born in fact, and, yes, for around two centuries there were no problem and there were protestants fighting in the republican side during the independence war, Sam Maguire was the one who recruited Michael Collins, Same with Casement who had family in Mallow. Anyway, there were, and are, tons of Protestant church in the republic. Look, even the protestants lose family during the famines, were recruiting by the dozen to fight in British wars and had really rough times under British mandate, it wasn't just a catholic thing, even tho it was specially hard on them, the protestants suffered their shit So, as a half Irish and English born, and I assume you took your education in the UK , you better don't talk shit when they called open fire on civilians "the troubles" and the great famine as some sort of accident
As a full blood irish an I can say much of the frustration comes Americans of irish ancestry claiming our nationality and culture yet perpetuating negitave stereotypes without understanding why they exist, I love my American Irish folk but your culture is not the same
We basically commercialized our own culture to eke out a living under people who hated us, just like the Italians Except italian-american cuisine is actually good
Look up Appalachian culture. It's where my Irish American family is from and from what I can tell a lot of the culture naturally passed on generations and simply was Americanized. It was also fairly isolated which makes it a pretty interesting case. I didn't really realize this till my Papaw and I sat down for a family report when I was much older. Interesting stuff.
@@MiloManning05 That would be a nope. We can trace our line through DNA and documentation back to when we left. Apparently our family all came from Cork, so further South.
It’s mostly had to do with in the USA, we recognize “race” as in whether or not you have melanin, and sometimes where geographically where you were born. Other countries for centuries didn’t always see it that way. It was more about cultural, religion, geographical, and many other determinations. Wasn’t always just by the color of one’s skin.
It’s still not just about skin color. Some people want to make it simply about skin color for their own purposes. “Whiteness” itself is a social construct and moreso refers to a set of cultural values and belief systems rather than simply skin color. It’s always more complex than skin color alone. And this didn’t start in the US.
My husband is white and I'm black, don't want kids but I do wander what they would consider themselves. In my experience people don't generally consider themselves mixed,probably because it's so vague. Mixed with what? White and black, Hispanic and Asian, Hawaiian and Jamaican???
@@demonheart13 it not only depends on the individual, but it depends on who you are talking to as well. Mixed race to a lot of black people mean mixed with black and white. I'm mixed race. My father is primarily Scottish and my mother is from the Kingdom of Tonga. She's very much of a darker skin color. But many black people do not consider me a person of color even though white people do not consider me white. It's very tough being "brown" these days.
@@demonheart13 I've never met a mixed (white/black) person that's referred to themselves as white. It's always have been either black or (less frequently) milado. Even when black is mixed with Asian, the preferred identification is usually black.
As an Irish person who makes his living doing walking tours for American tourists, I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you say EXACTLY what I've often desperately wanted to scream at some of my groups. The suffering inflicted on your ancestors is no excuse to perpetuate that which other people are still suffering, especially if you personally are so far removed from that suffering that you can afford a transatlantic flight, a four star hotel and a private tour guide. Cheers for this, Sunn.
I’m 3rd generation Irish American with family still in Ireland. Several of them have visited us. I have always wished to visit them, and the family farm we still have from the 1300s… but haven’t been able to afford it. Moving to America lost my family so much and caused deep scars that we still carry. I don’t fault my grandparents for their decision. And I’m happy I have my husband and children. But I’m not free in America. None of my family acts free. Everyone acts chained and scarred - but still happy and moving forward because that’s the Irish spirit… My Irish relatives on the other hand, they act free and untethered. They have the history of standing and fighting and winning against the Black and Tans and every other incursion - where my side has the shame of running and coming to the country of false promises and battling overt anti-Irish racism…
As a European who took some time to study our history, I learned that it really doesn't matter what your skin color is. In central Europe, we pretty much look the same, yet there was just as much tension between ethnic groups as there was between racial groups in America. What I actually find surprising is that we stopped doing a lot of this, only recently.
No it doesnt matter about skin color but to argue that europeans especially northern europeans were not white is idiotic northern europeans were white it pisses me off to say otherwise we dont say africans were white becauase its simply not true everyone trys to black wash european culture. Many blacks migrated and were traded to european countries that happened but to say europeans were not white is idiotic
In Central Europe you might look the same, but doesn’t that then put an emphasis on skin color when someone that doesn’t look like you comes to town? Brown people would stand out wouldn’t they? From what I recall during my short time in Europe Gypsies kind of stood out because they were a little browner than usual. That’s as best as I could put it… African Hookers… I don’t think people necessarily ignored skin color. There is a difference between ethnic discrimination and racial discrimination in that ethnic groups can be of the same race. But I don’t think I can think of an ethnic group that is multi racial. I don’t think we have progressed that far yet, if you’re African American you’re picking a race for example even if you’re mixed. In Europe it seems it matters what color your skin is if immigrants have become part of the labor force… just saying
As an American Irish person who's family is in America because of that oppression and suffered more of it once they arrived and has taken the time to educate myself on my heritage, thank you so much for this! Too often do I try to have a conversation about this topic with people and I get shut down because I'm white. It's frustrating so I'm very thankful for creators like you bringing more light to this!! Makes my heart happy!
I get it! I don’t want to be a victim or reparations or anything like that; but it’s a crime to even make a joke “oh irish aren’t really even human” as to refer to how we used to be treated because there’s a conspiracy to hide that fact. Not only is it not taught in schools anywhere; but people get angry or mock you and treat you as stupid for stating historical facts. It really doesn’t make sense to me at all. I don’t even want empathy for it or to talk about how I’m oppressed; just the ability to comment on it myself without being verbally brutalized.
Yes, it's so disheartening to be shut down because I'm very white passing, but do not identify as white. I've been bashed multiple times for it and told it doesn't matter what my ancestry is because pale-blonde-blue-eyed today = White. My heritage is, as far as we have any record, Irish and Cherokee. Yet, if I don't identify as white and white alone, people seem to get all up in arms. I can acknowledge that I have privileges that many do not by passing as white today while not ignoring the hardships my ancestors endured and the generational poverty we were subjected to from not being considered white (My predominantly Irish county is still the third poorest county out of 3,143 in the US today.) Some people interpret me not claiming whiteness as me claiming to be equally disadvantaged as Black and Brown people in the US today, but that's not what it's about at all. It's about honouring the truth and experiences of my ancestors while expressing solidarity with other marginalized groups and acknowledging that race has and always will be a social construct. To claim whiteness today feels like spitting in the face of my ancestors, especially the Native American side whose melanin I happened not to inherit. I've even been told it's cultural appropriation for me to grow my hair and braid it for cultural and spiritual reasons when both my Mawmaws, my Great Grandma, dad and Pawpaw, all having done the same, all because I inherited specifically the colouration of it from my non-white Irish family. It's really sad to see my acknowledgment, appreciation, and hand reached out in solidarity twisted into a divisive, wannabe victim, not-like-the-other-whites narrative. I will not take on the "race" of my ancestors' oppressors that they used to divide and dehumanise us, and I don't have to in order to fully acknowledge that my appearance alone does come with great privileges in this country today.
@@TheAwesomes2104 but you where born in America and raised there your American you may have Irish ancestry but YOU haven't faced the hardships of being Irish you have not been persecuted like the northern Irish have that's the difference
@@TheAwesomes2104 what about tailor trash white folk with abusive mom and absent dad, lol. Those people have more privelage than you because their ansestors had to work night and day on farms just to keep from starving to death?
I have Irish and Italian ancestry, and I've always felt it unnecessary to say anything about any discrimination my ancestors went through. Because you're right. There's no point having that conversation with people who refuse to be educated about it. I love your videos and the context they give. ❤️
I'm Irish and Italian too! Although my skin tone absolutely leans toward the Irish side I don't tan I only burn and I burn within 10 minutes of being out in the sun
Just a subtle point here . The Irish are and have always been WHITE. The only discerning quality was ACCENT.!!! Once an Irish person lost his accent or his defendants no longer aquire that Irish accent there was no way to differentiate so you all cut the crap. People have always and will always find reasons to discriminate against each other but to try and deminish the plight of blacks and the slavery experience by saying oh we had the same issues is total fuckery and you know it. A black person will be black no matter his accent . Once an Irish or an Italian loses that accent he's just another whitebperson. Italians my be a bit darker but still white and nobody questions that unless you make an issue vof it yourself
And they should. But also think of the people who are kind and considerate, but get walked on by others every day....it makes US smile and feel better!!!
We were stuck on an island next to the world worst colonisers.we were so thouroughly erased and colonised that we struggle to seperate our culture's except for a few hold overs such as a modernised interpretation of our music and dance. But everything else is lost. The food the clothes the socioeconomic culture, the true language, all gone
Slavery, funny considering that apparently white men invented slavery to oppress blacks in America & hold them down & continue to do so to this day according to blacks.
I’m Irish American. And have always been treated like a N. Before seeing this video today, I actually ordered the book yesterday, How the Irish Became White. I may not know all the things of an Irish person’s struggle on the homeland: but nor do they know the struggle we have in America when they come here and act as if sheet is all hunky dory and fabulous let’s have a burger and fries. I don’t know why people would begrudge ANY Irish people no matter where we live if you are also Irish knowing how much persecution and hatred we are dealing with. That makes no sense to me. No. I didn’t get taught hardly a thing about trouble in Ireland. I was taught some. I was taught some of trouble in Scotland. Doesn’t mean I deserve to be ill treated or hated by other Irish people ON TOP of the Irish hatred I already have faced and still battle. God bless.
“Now have the day that you deserve.” Is now my absolutely favorite line out there. It’s like a far less passive aggressive version of bless your heart haha. Love it! Love your content as well & all the information you share with us!
Honestly, these subjects still make me so proud of my Irish Nanny (Grandma). She and her Indian neighbour (another lady) set up a spice business in England in the 60s. Two immigrant women raising families (and in Nanny's case, a large one) alongside running their business. Fantastic. Unfortunately both have now passed away, but I'll always be proud.
Both historically genocided by the Brits. Irish famine and bengal famine. Heck Brits did such a number on Indians that their bodies are genetically in starvation mode.
One of the greatest things I learned about Irish History, was how they craved knowledge throughout their entire existence. This thirst for knowledge is what helped preserve a lot of Roman-British artifacts that would have been lost during the European Feudal Era.
@@rodericblack4657 why should I? I’m wearing an anti-racist shirt! Do you not know the history of the racist signs in stores saying: “No Irish No Blacks No Dogs” ????!!!!! So you’re cheering that racism? Seems like you’re the one that should be embarrassed!! Táimid amach anseo!
@@persephonel2117 He hasn't actually. I'm British and have seen exhibits about this in museums. Irish were treated as lesser blood due to their ancestry. Anglo-Saxons looked down on those of Celtic blood, which Irish and Scots were/are.
Same every time I bring it up in Italian American groups that we were considered black at one point like come on now guys learn your own history also the biggest lynching that occurred not to Africans in America was to Italians in Alabama but everytime like clockwork they either remove my response or just straight out ban me. God I hate Italian ignorance.
Yeah but many years ago the Irish knew when the blks got their freedom they would be at the bottom for jobs , there were troubles because of that , I've heard ones call Irish drunks when they were the ones who took jobs in police , you notice USA ended up with the criminals and ones fleeing police in Europe etc , it was the wild west , then there emerged the mafias , if there wasn't a USA all those in USA would either have been jailed or killed or elsewhere , the Basque and Armenians all went to USA ,some staying in the Alps they moved to and wanted to remain autonomous , that's why France had terrorist bombs going off by the Basque separatists and red brigade if I remember right , they went to France from central Asia area and some to Ireland and the Americas , Armenians fled genocide by the ottoman Turks and Hitler forcing them to become muslim , ones went to USA to flee Russia from Nordic countries , in saying that Hitler was also doing away with Armenians ,gypsies , etc , so was the ottoman Turks , Tito of Yugoslavia was in with Hitler , Hitler was also wanted rid of the poles , sadly USA is just an extension of the troubles in Europe and the east , but the Irish were not blk , they had Spanish and other but those had gone to Ireland , they were not indigenous , there was also the slave trade there where wht Scottish stolen and sold by the Dublin vikings who sold others they captured from around the world , I have photos of Irish from 1800s and they don't look anything but wht , if anyone has different photos I'd be happy to see them however that does not excuse their behaviour in USA
What like that champion of racial justice JFKJr? Or the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame that literally fist fought with the KKK? You obviously never lived with the Irish of USA.
They never turned around and became racist there have always been tensions between minorities. Similar to how latinos and black people hate eachother now. Just because both struggle against a common group doesn't they'll be friends.
Fellow red head here from Irish roots, living in England. Being a red head and obviously Celtic, made me a target for unkind behaviour. Adults and children alike would be derogatory towards me about my hair, but was never considered bullying or mean. Still goes on today for me and other red heads.
One day people won't be looked down upon because of their roots but looked up to because of their struggle caused by those who look down upon everyone else.
Do you know anything about Newfoundland in Canada? The people here don't claim to be Irish, they are Irish. A lot of Irish settled here 300 years ago, lived in isolation on the island for centuries, and only joined Canada in 1945. Most people have Irish accents and dialect, and our culture, music, food, and bloodline are very Irish. People from here don't often visit Ireland, but if they did, you would think they were from there when you heard them speak.
thanks for this one, I'm Irish and Chinese-Jamaican from Canada... people really arent knowing about this stuff... I heard they only really gave us relative rights to stop us rising up together with the Black workers and others, pre or post-abolition I dont remember... They still call us lazy drunks, but apparently its all just fun... same with our resistance against 800 years of persecution and occupation at the turn of the century... they called us terrorists, they still do if you listen closely, but you gotta know the history to understand... this is why we stand with Gaza, real authentically proud Irish people stand with you, and all historically and currently oppressed and persecuted peoples around the world... Peace!!!!! 🇨🇦🇮🇪🇯🇲
If I remember my history correctly, Irish and blacks lived in the same places, therefore there was a lot of mixed couples happening, it’s why some black people have last names like “McCoy”. It wasn’t the “masters” name, it was legit Irish and black people marrying one another, during one of the worst times for Irish folk,
Some black people also just named themselves whatever sounded pretty to them. Not everyone wanted their old slave masters last name. I wouldn’t rely on last names for heritage with black peoples from the United States when it was either cast away or ripped away from them in so many instances.
@@bogustoast22none25 but the red hair isn’t an “Irish” trait. The red hair came with the Vikings, Danes or whatever you would like to call them who actually took over most of Irelands port cities starting in the late 700s and on. They actually did a study that showed the areas of Ireland that the Vikings settled in had higher number of red haired men and their DNA showed they had Norwegian in them! Scotland and England have as well. And fun fact the only other place that has a comparable percentage of red heads is Scandinavia! Also another fun fact is they believe red hair came about because the lack of vitamin d!
@@americanbookdragon yep, my grandfather is a first generation born free man. He is an irish descending black man. His father was from ireland, his mother was a freed slave. My mother was born with red hair and freckles and brown skin. She's truly beautiful and I love her very much, at least good can come from the bad.
Proud of my heritage. People don’t talk about the mistreatment of the Irish , and most laugh it off because they only see skin deep. Mom and my grandparents came here just like anyone else, and had to work hard to get what they have. Be proud of your people, skin colour means nothing.
The Irish side of my family migrated to England, the USA, but many remain in Ireland. The Irish were treated worse than many countries, our land taken, people forced to leave , Cromwell and others tried stopping Catholicism, replacing Irish with English protestants. ,,leading to uprisings which resulted in more punishment such as being transported to Australia, Propaganda against catholic Irish from ruling classes made out we were subhuman, using derogatory terms such as black Irish Which has nothing to do with skin colour, it originates from the fuel most people used , peat , cut from dirty black smelly peat bogs , hence the term "black as bog" ... Hardly anyone talks about how terribly the Irish were treated. But everyone who's black goes on about slavery even tho it ended long before the Irish finally got some form of peace just q few years ago. Leading to pro catholic Irish such as the IRB , then later the IRA And fighting protestant loyalists such as the UDF UVF ,bombing and killing each other.
Basically everyone who wasn't anglo-saxon was the outgroup until a new group came in, then they insisted everyone is all buddy-buddy and must unite to protect 'muh culture'
@@mogscugg2639 Everyone who was not Asian or Black from Africa were the outgroups in the US. Italians, French and Irish are examples of whites, of course. This is the de jure ingroup of the US since 1790.
@@mogscugg2639 That doesn't make you Black and in the United States, being Black or being Asian were the only racial disqualifications for being white. Nice try. From the instant Irish set foot in the US, they had white power and many notoriously wielded it as they got off the boat from Ireland, beating and killing the first black people they had seen in their lives.
In Europe, Hispanics are white and have been white. The US splits hairs a lot more about who is and who isn’t white. Just like a middle-Eastern is considered Asian to a European.
as an Irishman (Gaeilge is my first language) I endorse this message 100%. Its all true. We were colonised. And treated as a sub race. Ironically it probably made us nicer than all those entitled whites.....haha
Um...no. yall threw black folks under the bus with the quickest to assimilate into whiteness. Boston is one of the most racist and violent cities toward Black folks...guess who lives there?
These people don't know the difference between discrimination and racism. Additionally, it wouldn't be necessary to write No Irish if they considered Irish as black.
Irish people are hidden racists, and that us a fact...v v v very territorial and we like our own...in a nice way...but yes, Irish people for the most part are racist ..sorry to burst your bubble
American here. Spent a uni semester in London in the late 80s. In our flat (which was owned by the company that did the exchange), we found a sign hidden behind a curtain that said, "To Let" and under it someone had written in marker, "No Irish Need Apply". It was eye-opening to see that was still around from the days when the building had been for general lease (and not just for uni students in the program). I have a BA in British and Irish history, so I know what the Irish have been through, but didn't realize that, outside of the North of Ireland, it was still going on in the UK at that point.
As an Italian and Irish American I have beencsaying this for years. You almost brought me to tears. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS OUT THERE!!!!❤
@@astrosymmetrii we were white for thousands of yrs and in an 900 yr war, they hated us thats why they didnt give us work you idiots. Typical ignorance!!
@DaegosYT You know nothing about me, my culture, or heritage. I'm sorry if you are unhappy with the lack of connection you have to your blood, but don't put your personal problems on me sweetheart!
@@viviandickinson I'm perfectly happy with myself. I am aware of the country I was born and raised in and I don't go around telling people I'm from somewhere I'm not. It would be silly of me to call myself Italian or French because my great-grandparents were from Italy and France wouldn't it? I was born in neither of those countries
An excellent book, I highly recommend it. It helps gives an inside look on how cultures and ethnicities who were predominantly fair skinned didn't count as White and for the Irish, it was longer than most others.
I told an Italian girl I was kicking it with how Italians weren’t always considered white and she bout malfunctioned learning Italians have been white for barely a century 😂😂😂
Define white ? I'm English, during summer walking about in Tshirt my face neck arms go brown, but rest of me that's untanned remains pink .. If I lived by the Mediterranean and just wore shorts I'd be constantly be sun tanned brown . Except for under my pants , lol ..
My favorite thing to disprove the concept of “whiteness” as scientific fact or “white culture” is that Ben Franklin thought Germans were “too swarthy” to be considered white.
@@neeadevil4840 He also thought the same about the Swedes. In his eyes it was probably pink-skinned englishmen=white. It also exemplifies that even exceptionally smart and competent people can have really silly ideas.
@@vendetta314dagoddess hard to put into words really, but it seems to be decided randomly who is considered white or not. Why just why? Oh and when you are not considered white but definitely not black what are you then? Chopped liver?
@@vendetta314dagoddess no, whiteness was very much a thing in the united states throughout most of it's life, and became much more of a systemic product in the late 1800's onward
Im neither black nor white but one thing i am is Irish 🇮🇪 born and raised in Dublin and thankful for every day . Born here and please god I die here 🙏🇮🇪💚❤️best wishes from Ireland 🇮🇪 to all you beautiful people of the world
irish aren't white we were never white Do we look white to you The only white things I see is Sheep Chalk Milk Pillows Clouds Walls Snow Since when did the Irish have milky white skin? Unless we are albino then we aren't white Get your facts fucking straight
I didn’t notice he said that until I read your comment and then re-heard it and I was like ‘damn that is some slick ass shit to say to someone’ LOL😆😭😭😭
Thank you for sharing this! My great great grandma came here from Ireland, she had four kids and worked in california doing migration farming. All i know is her husband died at some point. We dont know our language, we dont know where in Ireland we’re from, but she instilled hard work and respect for all human beings in us. She was a really rad lady ✌️
There is some history of Irish and Native American solidarity specifically. Native Americans (can't remember which tribe) donated to Irish people during the famine and we have a monument to them in thanks. Irish people donated to Native Americans during covid when there was a call for support. I think it's a beautiful example of solidarity
It's frustrating when people of Irish descent act like white supremacists, but I think it's even more aggravating when they do learn a little bit of history and then use being Irish to say "well we can't be racists because we were oppressed too." I would say the reality of it is that while the Irish in America DID face racism and oppression at that point in history, the racism and oppression against black people in America lasted much longer in history and still lingers today with much more prevalence. Thank you for your great videos, I totally want to check out that book.
Yeah, they learn about the historical oppression of Irish people and take the exact wrong message from it. Kinda like when some Irish people are against emigrants coming into Ireland, despite us being a nation that went through a massive diaspora in our past.
You are one of the few people I've ever seen addressing how the people of this island were treated in history. Irish were also used as slaves. My hair is naturally red and curly and my eyes are green. I do tan but apparently I don't have a European head shape, the rest of my family do. I have no clue about my dna. But I resemble my dad so I'm not a Cuckoo in the nest lol!
Irish-American here. Thanks for the video, I’m glad I’ve always known the real history of my ancestors thanks to my dad and grandpa. My grandfather was always disgusted by racism and always said “we’re not white, we’re Irish” 💙
@@galwaytribesman9289People like you are why I no longer identify with my Irish heritage, I’m ashamed of it. No other nation on earth is as nasty to a portion of their diaspora as the Irish are to Irish Americans. Strange people, thank God my ancestors escaped from that place.
I’m Latina and lived in Ireland for the past 10 years. I’ve never been made to feel out of place here. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s certainly more rare. I have however been verbally abused by Irish-Americans on multiple occasions and I know many others who have too. I have a friend who moved to Ireland from Palestine. She was scared she’d be verbally (and possibly physically) abused for her nationality, race and religion. Instead she was welcomed in and has seen a country FINALLY stand up and defend her people. We went to an Irish bar in the US and Irish-Americans verbally abused her calling her all kinds of offensive names and told her to get out. She said it was the first time she’d received that kind of treatment from someone who said they were Irish. I’ve also seen my actual Irish friends be called “less Irish” by an Irish-American? Ireland has loudly been against all kinds of oppression and discrimination and they show that time and time again. Once again Ireland isn’t perfect, there are racists, sexists, xenophobes etc just like everywhere else, but overall I think Ireland is a place anyone can come and be made to feel like they belong. I think Irish history plays a big part in why Ireland is generally a really kind and welcoming place to live. They know what it feels like. Irish people can be any race. I’ve met soooo many black Irish people. There’s also no issue talking about Irish ancestry, but I honestly notice the only time Irish-Americans bring up being Irish is when they’re using it to invalidate BIPOC or when they’re looking for something cool to brag about. I can understand why Irish people would be offended when their culture is being used as some kind of party trick or excuse to be racist. I’d also like to add that it’s not just Irish people they give a bad name to, It’s also other Irish-Americans. I’m sure there’s also many Irish-Americans who aren’t like this but are painted with the same brush.
great comment, much love from another irish person! people who dont welcome others into our country make me deeply sad, im glad we mostly have compassion as a nation because of our history. and im happy when americans enjoy ireland, but i hate it when they use us as a gotcha.
I remember going through archives years ago, as that was my job, and I saw advertisements for hybrid slaves. In the US, can't remember the state, slave sellers would put an Irish woman "indentured servant" and an African man in a locked room forcing them to copulate. The child the Irish woman had from the event was considered a stronger slave- the Irish blood made the slave child hardier to disease. Not every black person with Irish DNA was raped by their plantation owner, as these advertisements show. Slaveowners were literally making mixed children en masse for x amount of years by forcing African slave men to copulate with Irish "indentured servants". There is a lot of confusion about indentured servants. They were not free. They could be sold. BUT they "might" be free. Most never saw freedom.
The paper bag days...smh So horrific what happened. The breeding plantations is also where the term mf comes from because the sons were forced on their mothers.
my great grandpa had a similiar experience in Canada where one bar had a sign that read "no finns, no dogs, no indians" or something like that. We're finnish so safe to say he went to a different bar.
Lol I like what you did there. Leave it to us newish whites to explain it to other newish whites how this all works. Many confused as you can see. Some really have forgotten where they've come from. Props for bringing to our attention. You've done more than enough. Thanks for this video :)
The sign stating "no Irish, no blacks, no dogs" does not necessarily prove discrimination based on skin color. If the intention was solely to exclude individuals because of their blackness, there would be no need to specifically mention no blacks on the sign. The fact that it is listed separately suggests that there may be other factors at play. For example, the Nazis displayed signs proclaiming "no Jews," indicating a potential cultural conflict rather than purely racial discrimination.
My Grandfather came to America...and Breyers Ice Cream...discriminated against him because he was an Irish Catholic. It was a Jewish Company.This...back in the day.
Yup. It was a reach. The idea is prejudice against catholics, perceived traits and absolutely nowt to do with being white or otherwise. Ridiculous notion. No British person ever thought the Irish were bloody black. The book is actually a notion that Irish immigrants (to America) moved to be more accepted, by taking up American whites prejudice against black people. So....WTF is he talking about.
Just because you live on a certain island doesn't make you Irish. Many Irish Americans have close to the same amount of heritage as native born Irish but I bet you woud say they're not Irish.
Mad respect for him trying to divide your own people? …many Irish that migrated here could be your relatives! Our ancestors left there due to the hardships, and then faced more hardships once here. Americans with Irish DNA need to do our part to support you all and you all need to do the same with us! Our ancestors would be ashamed at anyone allowing others to divide us!
@@RedHeart1I just said the same thing! What a disgrace to our people to let this joker tell me if I’m “Irish enough!” My Irish grandmother would role over in her grave to hear this rubbish!
@RedHeart1 Well said. What he said about the Irish being discriminated against, etc.. was all true. But his tone did sound like he was trying to divide us.
And this is exactly why Irish Americans who raise their heritage as a defence because they "weren’t considered white" don't get much benefit of the doubt from me: Irish Americans "became" white by actively participating in anti-Black racism, particularly by selling their labour for less in order to get Black workers let go and driven out of work. Irish Americans, historically, have no innocence to plead on this.
@@chifleming6132 You're making a salient point, but not quite the one you think you're making. American society began as a inherently white supremacist one (after all, they birthed the concept of nationalism codified by racism). Yes, Irish immigrants wanted to be legitimately "American", but to the Americans in power who decided who counted as "legitimate" and who did not, that meant being identified as and identifying with "whiteness" as they defined it. In fact, whiteness was a requirement for citizenship itself -- to be "legitimately American", you must first "be white". For such as Takao Ozawa in 1922, a particularly pale Japanese American, he argued that race did not matter, and being pale and identifying as white was enough for citizenship, but the Supreme Court argued that it was not -- you had to be of European heritage to be white. That is why Irish immigrants could opt in to whiteness, but Takao Ozawa could not. Irish immigrants opted in by upholding whiteness as an identity, which required actively participating in the racist social structures that kept Black Americans out. Editing to add: Citizenship required being white, which initially meant being "white Anglo-Saxon and Protestant" (WASP). This why Americans of British heritage (that is, English (where the people are originally of Anglo (Danish) and Saxon (Garmanic) stock)), incidentally the ones who first *established and profited off chattel enslaving of Africans, now Black Americans,* such as founding fathers George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, were the ones considered white, and the rest of Europeans were "grandfathered in" by participating in racism.
The irony of being hated after being forced from our homes to America to now being hated by the cousins we left behind. We are on the same team people haven’t we had enough in-fighting?
Irish immigrants fled in the 1800s, you're not Irish anymore, you've mixed into American culture and genes for 5 or 6 generations already. There's nothing Irish about you other than a DNA test where you have trace ancestry left. Your ancestors didn't fight for independence, didn't build the country from the ground up and doesn't maintain it today, so don't hop on to our stuff.
Irish people do not hate or denigrate Irish Americans, don't listen to the nonsense. I love all my Irish brothers and sisters abroad. Your ancestors were forced from the homeland through 100s of years of subjugation and deliberate famine, to find a new home and work hard to provide for your family. Now, you are subject to this ridiculous propaganda.
@@michellemurphy895Much love from the great state of New Jersey. My grandfathers parents moved here right after Independence from Mayo. His mistreatment for being the son of Irish Catholic immigrants growing up in Jersey City is why I hold so much pride for my heritage.
@@bigploppa154 Hello my dear. You have every right to feel proud of your heritage. How did life turn out for your family in the United States?Ireland was still a very poor country up to 1980s. I had an opportunity to go to the US a long time ago, I'm a bit of a home bird and couldn't leave my family. The economy got much better here, no one knew where Ireland was or cared. Now it appears people from everywhere want to come to our little Island. Ireland has changed and not for the better. I hope life is good for you and your family. Best wishes from Ireland
