Ukraine Russia War FREMM Tank Military Army Navy Air Force Italy France Marina Militare Marine Nationale Bergamini Aquitaine Constellation Class FFG(X)
Nah, bro, Italy was the luckiest of the former Axis powers after the war because we had the chance to keep in service lots of cruisers and destroyers. One of them, the old Duca degli Abruzzi (Duke of Abruzzi) was refitted and became the first nuclear missile cruiser of Europe. Since then we always had a Navy up to the task.
It doesn't matter who got more frigates than the other... we're like cousins, EU and NATO members. If one needs full power in combat, the other will come assisting.
I mean...that is true if Europe won't have It's hands full with Russia in the future, if Ukraine wins and Russia is safely contained Europe won't have major threat's and could assist the US otherwise it would be a lot more difficult
@@alexd832 Ukraine isn't a European country member, nor a NATO member. Which is a big difference. If someone will go to far, it's mostly NATO countries around Ukraine.
@@jingorooroad2559 To a certain extent, both Ukraine and Russia are European nations, and to the same extent both are not. The Russian soul reached Europe as much as the European soul reached Russia.
The US Navy chose Fincantieri as the Italian company has three important production centers: Fincantieri Marinette Marine, Fincantieri Bay Shipbuilding, and Fincantieri ACE Marine.
True. Fincantieri is already implanted in North american continent, which is a big advantage over Naval Group, for this contract. Naval Group is more implanted in other countries or continents, Naval Group is selling well in Asia, which is a rising region.
@@jingorooroad2559 Fincantieri and the Indonesian Ministry of Defense have signed a contract for the supply of two PPA units (multi-purpose offshore patrol vessels), for a value of 1.18 billion euros
@@jingorooroad2559 Fincantieri and the Indonesian Ministry of Defense signed a contract on 4/28/2024. The 2 ships originally intended for the Italian Navy are currently under construction at the Riva Trigoso shipyard, Italy
The need for range for the French FREMM is due to the fact that France is the country with the largest exclusive economic zone in the world (11,691,000 km2), not necessarily to reduce budget. It therefore needs enough range (so less equipment) to pretty much deploy anywhere in the world, which isn't the case for Italy.
@@Benito-Musolesi I'm getting sick and tired of this white flag narrative, so here is a bit of history for you. During WW2, France had to defend the Netherlands, Belgium, the UK and France. Whilst the Dutch gave up to the invader, the French kept on fighting for the freedom of the Dutch in the battle of Zeeland for 3 more months. The British were under French command and, without receiving the order and without notifying French command, they decided to retreat to Britain, hence leaving the French and the Belgians to defend the English whilst they were retreating during the battle of Dunkirk. To quote a german general in Dunkirk : "Despite our overwhelming numerical superiority, the French counter-attacked at several points. I can't understand how these soldiers, sometimes fighting at 1:20 odds, found the strength to attack. It's astonishing. I find in these soldiers the same ardour as in Verdun in 1916. We're not getting anywhere and we're suffering terrifying losses. [Dunkirk proved to me that the French soldier is one of the best in the world. The French artillery, so feared in 14-18, once again demonstrated its formidable effectiveness. Our losses were terrifying: many battalions lost 60% of their strength, sometimes even more!" General von Küchler, commander of the 18th Army of the Wehrmacht. France was then invaded and indeed collaborated with the invader, which is a complete stain on our history, but let's not forget the Netherlands is where the most je*s were deported compared to the amount of population. Little after France got invaded, the French fleet docked to a port in Algeria (former French colony) to keep the ships for liberation. The British navy arrived near the port (that was completely docked at port) and gave the French an ultimatum : either give the Brits the French ships away (because the French ships were technologically superior to the British ships and the Brits wanted them for the defence of their island), or get shot down. The French navy chose the last choice. (it precisely happened in Mers el-Kebir). So to summarize : France had to defend four countries (including itself), of which two of them gave up / retrieved, only to get almost their entire navy destroyed by an ally who, let's be honest, if it hadn't been for the German bombings on London wouldn't have moved a single toe to help liberate Europe. I am not diminishing the sacrifices that the English and Dutch have undergone in any ways, it's all politics, but in this story, the French were clearly the bravest. During the Korean War, the French were fighting in Indochina and Algeria (not saying it was justified, just to give context), so only 3.000 were sent to Korea. It has been reported by US soldiers that, at some point during fighting, the French ran out of ammunition. What they did to stop the enemy's progress is put their bayonets on their rifles and charged in direction of the enemy (c.f., Battle of Wonju). Out of a total strength of 3,000 men over a period of three years, the French battalion will have lost 263: this represents a loss of around 10%, which is the biggest loss among foreign contingents. The French UN battalion received two Presidential Commendations (awarded to units of the United States and allied countries for extraordinary heroism in action against an armed enemy) from the Republic of Korea, three Presidential Commendations from the United States, and was cited five times in the French Army Order. These are a mere few events of bravery French soldiers have done, and as a final reminder : France as a country has won the most battle of all countries in the world.
Italy did not received 10 FREMM (not yet) ,as 2 were sold to Egypt before completion. 2 More FREMMs, are now under construction and 2 more have been ordered for a total of 12 ships. The 2 FREMMs under construction which will replace the ones sold, will be upgraded to the "Plus" variant, a full GP frigate with a complete ASW suite on top. The next two FREMMs, still in the design phase, will be upgraded to the EVO stage with a similar command bridge and radar suit to that of the PPA (Thaon di Revel class), with a mix of improved Aster 30 and CAMM-ER missiles. The displacement of these ships will increase accordingly despite a larger use of composites in the superstructures. I never heard of the Bergamini being "faster" then the Aquitaine, having the exact same set up of engines and lenght and both reaching slightly above 26 knots. 3:09 The OTOMAT is NOT "less modern" or "Cheaper" then the Exocet: please check your sources! Teseo Mk2/A actually is a younger and more expensive missile then the French Exocet (MM40 Block 3): it is also notably heavier with almost double the warhead and a longer range. The Teseo Mk2/A is closer to a cruise missile, able to strike sea and land targets while the Exocet is strictly an anti ship weapon. The differences in weight are easily understood as the Exocet was borne as an Air to Sea weapon, while the Otomat is just too heavy for that use and Italy employs the Marte on planes and helicopters. The reason for the different choice is that the French "Offensive" FREMMs (Alsace and Loraine) are equipped with Sliver 70 PAMM launchers, able to fire SCALP cruise missiles for ground objective targeting, while the Italian frigates do not carry the SCALP and employ the Teseo for all kind of offensive roles. All the other french FREMM are in the ASW set up. About the Constellation, I think the navy will come to regret the decision to stick with tiny 57mm guns: Italian and French ships are shooting down Houti drones with 76mm cannons which are effective at range, cheap to use and easy to restock, while the USN has to shot them down with AA missiles that costs orders of magnitudes more then the target they are supposed to "Kill": we could say that when an AA missile intercepts a drone, it is the drone that gets the kill! 😑
nice post except for a few details. The French ASW fremm all have A70 Sylver VLS and can shoot the MDCN cruise missile, in fact they fired the MDCN in combat in Syria 2013. However, the last 2 Fremm frigates (Alsace and Lorraine with new improved Herakles radar) cannot shoot cruise missile since only fitted with A50 Sylver VLS for Aster 15 and 30. While it is true that technically the Teseo can strike land it has very limited land attack capability with about 180km range. To call it a cruise missile is a huge stretch when an MDCN or Tomahawk are proper cruise missiles with terrain following capability and much bigger ranges of well over 1000km. Lastly Teseo Mk2a is not more modern than latest Exocet version. Teseo Mk2A is in service since 2008 whereas all Fremm were upgraded with Block 3C Exocet in 2022.
It's notable to state that the weapon system, OTO/Melara 76mm is one of the best naval guns ever created. In the Italian version otherwise it's even better because it uses a special technology able to make shells follow a laser toward target. It's unique in the world. Ultimately, in these days the Italian destroyer Caio Duilio is deployed in the Red Sea tasked with the mission of protect convoys from the Houti attacks. To this day, it took down 3 drones in two different attacks.
The French FREMM Alsace is also deployed in the Red Sea and is actually responsible for most of the kills of the European coallition: 6 UAV drones (for a total of 9 destroyed) and 3 of the 4 ballistic missiles intercepted Interstingly they destroyed one the drone with a 12,7 machine gun
@@IvanRoi_ of course. FREMM frigates are the best around. But it's curious that this time we Italians leads the mission and the French obey our orders. It feels new... 🤣🤣🤣👍
Hey everyone, after reading some comment it seems there's a bit of a misunderstanding in ship classification, so some countries don't use the word destroyer, I'm French and i know the german don't too, the whole torpedo boat destroyer thing is "contre torpilleur" in French, literally counter torpedo boat, we are not going to call it a "contre", so we have first rank and second rank frigates, something like a Lafayette FLF class will have "F710" on the hull while a FREMM or Newer FDI will have a "D650" to separate them from the lower tier ships The Chevalier Paul which in France is classified has a "Frégate de Défense Aérienne (FDA)" is known internationally has Missile Destroyer Chevalier Paul D617
@@maxharbig1167 Fair point, but the video seems to be merely trying to use the term as a simple past tense. To put it simply: “Cost” relates to the value of things, tangible or not, and it’s worth. It has the same form for present, past and past participle - “Cost”, which is the form you should use more. However, “Costed” can be used in an accounting context, to indicate the estimated cost of something. I should have been more precise in my post.
European nations are like brothers. They will fight each other constantly but if someone outside family attacks they will team up and defend each other to death
Italia e francia in realtà hanno buoni rapporti da tanto tempo,entrambe hanno una storia navale secolare e collaborano in numerosi progetti militari e politici. Non confondiamo il calcio con con l'esterno😂, però sono contento perché insieme stanno facendo bene e l'Italia ha indubbiamente la marina più forte nel mediterraneo...
France 🇫🇷 🤝🏼 Italy 🇮🇹 & Greece 🇬🇷 in Méditerranée France 🇫🇷 🤝🏼 UK 🇬🇧 in North Sea and Atlantic Ocean France 🇫🇷 🤝🏼 US 🇺🇸 in Pacific Ocean France 🇫🇷 🤝🏼 India 🇮🇳 in Indian Ocean
I don't know why we keep trying to work on huge projects with the germans. It's much more effective when we work with Italians as they know what they want and are not double sided.
@@alexd832 no they are the worst partner, A400M development was a mess because Germans needs were irrelevant and changes every day, same for eurofighter Germany impose ventral jet inlets
@@durchschnittlicherzuschaue9733 Keep in mind France don't need germany to design anything unlike germany. Also any project with France and any other country is a success but when germany is involved it always messy and inneficient. Germany can't even buy European plane (P-8A Poseidon, F35...)
FYI French Fremm have 32 VLS cells and can fire MDCN cruise missile. Italian only has 16 VLS cells and cannot fire any cruise missile since it does not have A70 Sylver VLS. The only thing better armed on Italian Fremm is it has 2x76mm guns (or one 76 + one 127 for GP variant) vs one 76mm on French version.
Us Navy a aussi acheté une soixantaine de sonar Captar-4 de THALES pour équiper ses navires, le développement du sien a été laborieux et finalement moins efficace, donc ils l'ont abandonné.
has a french dude i think that project that we do with italy and also sometimes britain seems to pan out much more compared to colab that include germany for some reason
@@guillaumefigarella1704 i wish i knew, but its hilarious i wonder what the french italian and french british projects are that you think worked better
@@vergessenhabeich814 the scaf and mgcs are really slow, the industrial partners of both nations can't seem to agree on anything, there wasn't any of that shown in the press in the scalp\storm shadow or ctas international joint venture, same for the fremm or mamba program
@@guillaumefigarella1704 fcas and mgcs are absolutely enormous besides that i dont know why it is always so dificult, why the industrys of both countries can not decide on anything and why every project is always so slow
the Indian Navy could do with a slightly modified, larger variant of the FREMM line of frigates . . . a fleet of 26 brand new Carlo Bergamini class 6,382 ton (8,230 ton loaded) stealth guided missile advanced warfare frigate powered by iFuelCell2® RedOX-HYBRId™ M-FEP system . . . 14 of the 26 units will designed & built by Naval Group at their naval maritime shipyards in Marseille, France . . . remaining 12 units will be assembled in India (under licence) from pre-built modular assembly kits at MDL Maritime Shipyards Goa, India . . . this way the per unit price can be reduced significantly, lot less than €840 Mn . . .
Why the FREMM? Easy to say, because the NAVY screwed everything with the Little Crappy Ships' program, it's embarassing that the 1rst world's economy wasn't able to build a decent ship to replace the Perry class.
Americans have bought the french sonar Captar-4 from THALES because the american research of the equivalent was far from being as efficient. Finally, after having lost millions on the research, they opted for the french sonar, actually the best sonar in the western camp.
I'm sure it's a great vessel, but the timing is peculiar. US announcing their decision to buy from Italy, and Italy canceling their MOU with China's BRI. This looks and smells like an agreement.
Nothing to do with that. US navy was hugely lacking an anti-submarine frigate, the Italian is the best one. The French is more focused in anti-air. That's all.
The makers of the FREMM missed a big opportunity with Canada. Canada was choosing a replacement for its current frigates and destroyers (one basic hull design, two variants). A competition was held between British, German, and (I think) Netherlands' designs for the basic design. But the FREMM manufacturers declined to compete in the contest with the FREMM design while the Canadian government was asking for designs. Instead the FREMM team tried to wait until the Canadian decision was already made (for a version of the UK Type 26), and tried to sneak in at the last minute with an off-the-shelf design that would undercut the Type 26 on price, and maybe use political pressure to get the decision changed. However, the sales strategy failed totally, as they were told that they had wanted the business, they should have participated the selection process properly, not tried to do an end-run around it.
The type 26 suits our needs better imo. Tbh if the Americans hadn't stipulated only operational designs in their design brief they probably would have opted for the type 26 as well. Hopefully the program doesn't get cut.
@@Fred-vy1hm$ 4 Billions USD per ship (5.6 CAD) It s ridiculous .... 4 times the price of a constellation and 5 Times the cost of a FREEM . No delay , no over cost, no technical problems that was sarcasm... Just google it , the whole program is already 306 Billions over budget for it's life span over 60 years. the PBO's estimate of $84.5 billion to design and build the frigates is averaged out over the size of the fleet - 15 in total - each warship would have an average estimated cost of approximately $5.6 billion, if this doesn't get cut something heels will unfortunately.
Everyone remember this video when the Internet trolls argue that the USA will never buy a foreign weapons system and deliberately undermine other countries’ military contracts. This is one of many US / ? Collaboration on defense. ( I personally wish the US would team up with UK for the challenger 3)
the US spent far too much for their equipment, I mean the budget is higher as all other military together. Many US weapon manufacturers took profit knowing that the US will never acquire foreign designs, as they chose the FREMM this was a mayor shock, some lobbyist wanted even to block the deal. Now they have to come down with the price. how is it possible that countries like Russia or China with less money and far less capable technology could keep up with the US?
@@Ezekiel903 took too much abusive profits. They never have been independent, they're still buying plenty of European equipments, Safran, Thales, etc ... won many contracts in the last 5 years.
The changes of the original design of the FREMM by the USN are so important that all the blueprints of the Italian ship have been modified. And the funniest thing is that some of those mods make operating the ship on heavy sea "problematic" unlike the original FREMM.
If you think that the Arleigh burke classe cost nearly as much as one of the worlds best destroyer, Italian-French Orizzonte classe, they you note how the US miil. ind. complex fooled the US DEF. DEP. with their lobbing! happy they send a signal, that the US army is not more willing to pay this prices!! that's the only reason that countries like Russia or now China could keep up despite spending 5 times less money!
Italy and French are in a new project, to replace their horizon classe destroyer, on YT with "DDX Class Destroyer - Italian Navy - Marina Militare" DDX classe, over 12'000 tons, between 64-92 VLS cells etc.
@@jacopomainoldi9025 French navy generaly prefer to own many ship but less arm. Due to our territory it would cost us way too much otherwise. Yet our navy is very recent and under huge modenisation.
with the Trieste they have already a 30'000ton carrier, new build, but Italian like Japan, their carrier can not only carry planes, but also entire landing brigades!
@@jean-philippebobin3732 People are coming with weird assumptions sometimes, or lack of logic. France got the world's biggest sea territories and EEZ, and their boats are only good for the Mediterranean sea.
Carriers avoid Tropical revolving storms, there are clips on RU-vid of older French Frigates in some seriously gnarly conditions, remember France has waters bordering the English Channel and the notorious bay of Biscay.
And the US has already modified the hullform and subsequently everything that needs to be attached to the hull. It is now a bespoke design and correspondingly expensive.
They had to do it due different weapon and radar system used. US navy use the aegis the Italian the empar. The US need.more VLS cells cause they don't have cannons with guided ammos and minimissiles, the Italian having it they don't need a big number of VLS.
modern ships. now UK Italy and Japan want to make a sixth generation fighter successor to the Eurofighter and perhaps France and Germany have a similar project.
It's not the French FREMM, and USA wants the Italian Variant , because it's better, bigger , carries better missiles , and higher top speed , the cargo space is bigger and it can carey 2 helicopters compared tot the France version that carries 1
@@oakpopeThe Italians have the SCALP too, that is basically another name for the british storm shadow, that by the way Italians sended some of their scalp to Ukraine. Not my word but words of the British ministre of defence on the updating report of the weapons sended to Ukraine. Plus the Italians have guided munitions and shells for their 76mm and 127mm naval cannons, they don't need tons of VLS.
@@oakpope Italians do not have the SCALP naval cause they buyed the new MBDA FC-ASW ceuise missiles that will be delivere in 2028 for both navy and Air Force.
The French budget cut is a lesson of why austerity is a short sighted profoundly dumb policy. In the end France paid the 8 FREMMs the price of the initial 17 because the economy of scale wasn't there anymore. Regarding the capacities of the FREMM, France would have had a monstrously powerful navy today, probably far above any european Navy, Russia and Turkey included.
No, the Italian FREMM is not better armed than the French one... The electronics systems (Thales) is better on the French frigate, as well as its Exocet missiles. But the strategic advantage she has is the MdCN land-attack cruise missiles, a decisive asset, and the italian FREMM doesn't have any. So, please stop talking nonsense.
1. Thales-Alenia it's Italo-French, so the electronics systems are equal. On the other hand the EMPAR radar was made by the Italians. 2. The way regarding the electronics are the Italians that have.mounted the Electronic Warfare Systems of Leonardo on the UK Merlin and US drones Reaper and Predators, not the French. To say. 3. Italy too have both the SCALP and the Exocet, other than the Aster 30 block 1, but you don't know it. 4. Italy have laser/IR/GPS guided ammos on their 76mm and minimissiles shells for their 127mm cannons, but you don't know it. 5. French Frigates have only a two-double Mu90 torpedo launcer, the Italians have two-triple torpedo launcer on their Fremm. So if there's someone that is talking nonsense here that's you.
You are completely Wrong! France cheaped up too much on its FREMMs and then cut the program to a point that any saving got wasted. Bergamini Kronos Grand Naval radar is superior to the French Herakles, chosen only because it's cheaper. In fact the Bergamini kept the Horizon radar suite, which, on paper might have the same nominal Range of the Herakles, but resolution wise is much more capable, where a blob on the French radar becomes a fully recognizable shape on the Italian Fremm screens. The Exocet is a lighter missile then the Teseo 2NG with a reduced warhead. It also is only usable against ships, while the Teseo has limited cruise capabilities. The difference is due to the choice by France to equip the two Lorain and Alsace with additional 16 Sliver 70 cells filled with SCALP cruise missiles for off shore bombardment. Only 6 Fremm were built by France of the original 12, meaning the Navy is not very content with what it got. It is not a bad ship, especially in the ASW role intended in France, but the cheaper radar suite makes for a worse AA platform. In the Ground Attack role, the Alsace version is very impressive, but The French Navy only built 2 of those, while the GP+ is not far behind, with its Vulcano 127mm and Teseo missiles, maintaining a more balanced and flexible design. The last two Colonna ships built also include a full ASW suite while the already funded Fremm Evo will add the New Bridge and fixed plates radar suite from the PPA. France built most of its Fremm for ASW patrol and ground attack with the Loraine, but choose a limited AA suite, keeping the Horizon for Air defence, but numbers are little for both.Italy instead kept the full AA capabilities of the Horizon (with fewer missiles) on every ship built, either GP or ASW. Im not entering the FDI/PPA debate as I don't know the capabilites of the chosen French radar suite, but both these ships are too small IMO to fill the role of the Fremm and France should have kept building its Fremm program at least to completion (12 ships). With what France ended paying each Fremm built for a limited production, it could have afforded a Kronos Grand Naval suit, with the adding benefit of commonality with the Horizon already in service.
@@solinvictus1234 No no. The one that was sunk by a stupid captain, as later investigations showed. Also, you are referring to the F100 class that Norway have. The first F100 was delivered to Spain in 2002 I seem to remember and the last F105 and more advanced in 2012, while @jjoarroyo3264 is referring to the new F110, which the first F111 and F112 units have been building for months. These will be Anti-Submarine versions that will complement the F100 Anti-Aircraft Frigates/Destroyers. Both types (F100 and F110) have the American Aegis integrated. The Fremm were only chosen by the US as a second option. The first option was the Spanish ones (even testing them as a command ship within the US fleet) because of integrated Aegis, weapon sistem and better in general than its rivals, and if it weren't for the big mouth of our president of the government (Pedro Sanchez, who is a clown), who started a diplomatic problem at that time with the US, Those Fremms would never have been selected. Today you learned something you didn't know, you can go to sleep now...🤡💩
The things the US Constellation class only has 15% commonality with its Italian parent design. What was the point of picking an existing design if you are going to change it so much.
it has far more then only 15%, would like to know how you get this number, it would make absolutely no sense, than they could simply buy the basic structure design of license, which would be far cheaper, but alone that Fincantieri bought Marinette and other Shipyards to build it, shows a different picture!
@@Ezekiel903He is right. The USN modified all the blueprints of the original design, so much than the ship seem to have problems on heavy sea. "The design of the Constellation-class ships is based on the Italian FREMM multi-mission frigate parent design that was modified by ship designer Gibbs & Cox to accommodate Navy survivability and equipment requirements. The Leidos subsidiary, Fincantieri and Naval Sea Systems Command wrestled with Americanizing the FREMM design for two and half years before it hit the 80 percent design completion and could begin fabrication on Constellation in 2022. The modification of the design altered almost every drawing of the FREMM and required review from NAVSEA, USNI News understands. “[The Navy] and the shipbuilder agreed that design maturity was probably the single biggest factor we could do to reduce the risk of production,” former program executive officer for unmanned and small combatants Rear Adm. Casey Moton said in August of 2022. For example, testing at Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock found that the modified design did not meet service standards for operating in heavy seas, necessitating design changes that ate into the schedule margin the yard wanted to have for the first-in-class ship. “We were already into the functional and detail design when that report came from Carderock - something of a surprise because the parent design didn’t really have that,” Vandroff said." news.usni.org/2024/01/11/first-constellation-frigate-delayed-at-least-a-year-schedule-assessment-ongoing
Wrong the US Navy did not choose the FREMM. Almost 70% of the FREMM design was deleted from the design of the FFG-62 which is already 2 years behind schedule
It's kinda wrong when he said in the video "the Italian FREMM is better armed". Since the French FREMM are actually using better missiles and electronics systems. The Thales systems already proven to be better and superiors, as it performed better in the deployment in red sea, but also by winning competitions many years in a row.
You can look up on the internet , French navy uses better Anti - Ship missiles but more expensive , but the Italian Navy uses Aster 30 missiles compared to Aster 15 used by France as an air tot air missiles , plus Italy FREMM has more auto super fast cannons tha the French one
@@maximilianvascautanu6547 The italian only use 1 more autocanon than the French. Wrong, French FREMM are using Aster15 and 30, they're using both (some are equipped with Aster 15, some with the 30). Exocet is more expensive, because it offers more possibility and features, such as a the possibility not only to be an antiship missile, but is also capable to attack lands or littorals targets.
no, same project with slightly different designs! like the horizon destroyer, it was a French-Italian project, only some slightly modification were made to fulfill the different request!
Wrong the US Navy (NavSea) modified the FREMM to the point only 15% of the design can be attributed tothe FREMM. Including no espresso machines and a 17 pound bofors. 57 mm
it has far more then only 15%, would like to know how you get this number, it would make absolutely no sense, than they could simply buy the basic structure design of license, which would be far cheaper, but alone that Fincantieri bought Marinette and other Shipyards to build it, shows a different picture!
Type 26 is not yet operational, Type 45 is a fantastic platform, been plagued by problems and its major weakness is its ammunition capacity as we have seen in red sea operations.
Wrong. What they're actually designing is an american variant which roughly has the same hull shape. Which means they redesigning about way more than half the ship. Hull shape is intricate but fairly basic crap. The magic is in conduits and cable laying snd compartments. Which is why they're going to run 3, yes 3! Years late.
Not if you have 76mm guided ammos and 127 GPS guided minimissiles as the Italian have (stuff that still not the French neither US have. US is starting now to engineer their 55mm guided rounds). Italians don't need tons of VLS, they can intercept everything with their ammos and shells.
FYI French Fremm have 32 VLS cells and can fire MDCN cruise missile. Italian only has 16 VLS cells and cannot fire any cruise missile since it does not have A70 Sylver VLS. The only thing better armed on Italian Fremm is it has 2x76mm guns (or one 76 + one 127 for GP variant) vs one 76mm on French version.
Italians DO have A70 Sylver VLS. And they actually have only 16 VLD with Aster 15/30-30 block 1 and SCALP cause they use their 76mm or 127mm cannons with 76mm Strales D.A.R.T Laser/IR/GPS guided ammos and minimissiles (talking about the 127mm Vulcano). A tech that France and even USA (that is starting now to engineer their 55mm guided ammos) have. The Italians do not need 32 VLS cells, cause they have guided ammos already battle proven (are the 155mm gps version of the Vulcano guided minimissiles, sended to Ukraine on the Italian PZH2000 that destroyed, alongside US himars, most of the Russian MBT). All with the cost benefit to spare the missiles on the ship when they're really need to launch them.
@@solinvictus1234 sorry but a lot of whatbyou said is totally false. 1. Italian Fremm have 16xA50 Sylver VLS, they do not have A70 2. SCALP is an air launched weapon from Rafale, Typhoon its is not a surface launched weapon, so cannot launch from ship. 3. MDCN is the ship based cruise missile derived from SCALP. Italy doesnt have any, only France has MDCN 4. Aster 30 Block 1 is not yet operational for any navy yet. Aster 30 block 1 is only available on land system SAMP/T currently used by France and Italy. The first navy that will deploy Aster 30 block 1 will be the UK on Type 45 circa 2026. French and Italian navies will have Aster 30 block 1 after as part of the Horizon class mid-life upgrade/refit
@@lordtemplar9274 1. Italy had the A50 with the first branch of FREMM they replaced with the A70. 2. I know what the SCALP is, de facto is a storm shadow, Italian have the SCALPby the way, confiemed by the British minister of defence that in the updating of weapon sended to Ukraine stated that Italy also sended there their SCALP. 3. Italy acquired the MBDA FC-AWS that is the new MBDA ceuise missile, naval and for geound attack, it will be delivered in 2028. 4. Italy will be the navy alongside France and UK to have the Aster 30 block 1 fitted on their ships after the ships modification that by the way are already under way. As France Italy already have it in their Samp/T. It's an MBDA missile built by France and Italy by the way. So nothing false by me, you're just lacking info.
@@solinvictus1234 1. as i said before Italy does not have any A70 Sylver VLS on any ship, only A50 Sylver VLS. Naval Group (ex DCNS) makes them and never received such an order from Italy. The only ships in Italian Navy that are planned to have the A70 Sylver are the DDX destroyers (12k tons) that are not built yet 2. I never said Italy did not have SCALP. I said SCALP is an air launched weapon only and that it is carried by Typhoon (which Italian Air Force uses). I also said that Italy has no MDCN which is the naval cruise missile launched from A70 Sylver VLS. Italy has neither, only France has this currently. 3. yes there is a target date for 2028 for a land attack variant, but there is also still a lot of questions as to what that actually is. ie is it air launched or surface launched? if surface launched, then is it VLS launched as the UK wants or canister launched (similar to Exocet and Teseo) like France and Italy want? is it the subsonic or supersonic version? Anyway it's not all very clear, at least for the general public. We will have to wait to get more details, hopefully sooner rather than later. 4. I said that exactly, so not sure what you are arguing about ie it is part of Horizon class upgrade. You originally said in your first sentence in you first that Italy "actually have" which is present tense. This is simply not true since Italy and France just signed the agreement on what they will upgrade and workshare split. So far this is a signed paper and the actual refit of ship won't be finished and in service in Italian and French navies for a few more years. As I said the Royal Navy will be the first navy to have Aster 30 Block 1 on Type 45 in service by 2026! So you were wrong and just too proud to admit it. have a good day
@@solinvictus1234sorry buddy, but none of the Italian FREMMs have the same capabilities as the French ones. Italy chose to make 3 types of fremm, each one for a purpose, and each one under armed in their purpose, unlike France’s multi mission frigate.
