I saw a therapist a few years ago after a family tragedy. We spent 90% of the therapy sessions talking about things like counterfeit Parmesan cheese, the Dynastic cycle of China, and the domestication of cats (which got pretty heated) At no point did we talk about my feelings. Turns out, at the end of the day, I needed a friend. He recognized the problem and never even shared my diagnosis. That man saved my life.
I interpreted that differently. I had a similar situation: did not talk about feelings or things bothering me. The reason that happened was because I did not want to talk about it. At one point I said I was tired of helping people and got laughed at. Male therapist by the way. I'm not obligated to save people and when I said that I was told 'no' in the sense that I was wrong. I felt better not going. Women would rather a man die than fall of his white horse. Other men have been conditioned to preach fem*nist gospel like it is true (it is a man's job to save women). What men need is something we are being denied for a reason: teamwork. Years ago men could play sports can go do things with other men. Now we are told that is toxic and women NEED to be allowed. We need men's spaces. You got that in a small amount. Bright side is that there is a lot of support online and it is unstoppable.
I had a huge block due to anxiety on my final report to get my engineering degree. It lasted for like a year. I went to a therapist, after a few sessions, her conclusion was "First of all you need to complete your report", with a side of "maybe you just don't like your field". My school staff on the other hand, were extremely humane and accomodating, I went back to the campus for a month, and I had a counselor, she gave me very good practical advice on how to get writing, from someone who actually went through shit and really understood what was blocking me, I actually spent most of the time I had with her chatting about things and having fun instead of working on my report, but it lifted my spirits a lot, enough to actually get productive on my report when I was alone :) I graduated since and I love my job and it's going great :)
I have had therapist go the science route with things like EMDR. I have had basically a task master to try and help organize my life, and a therapist that just tries to be a friend. By far the most useful has been a friend.
I often say positive things to other men like "I'm so happy you finally found someone to be together with. You deserve it". The reaction is usually a stunned silence for a few seconds and then they are super happy to be talked to like a real human being with feelings. Every single one of them thanked me for it. Try it dudes
Yeah. It's unfortunately (apparently) not the norm. But I try to complement my mates, or generally tell them stuff I find important, and they do the same. It's a bit stiff sometimes, none of us are really that _good_ at it (even if we've gotten better with time). But we do all really appreciate it, and it's only been a positive. We don't _have_ to do what society tells us to do. We can learn to know our emotions better, we can learn to talk to people sincerely. Basically we can learn to be wiser people.
The reason men don't "talk about our emotions" is that we constantly have our emotions invalidated. In my experience, I have never once felt better for "getting things off my chest", because of all the trite, presumptive, condescending, invalidating comments I receive. 90% of the time, telling someone about my issues just makes me feel _worse._ Saying "well you just have to find someone who will actually listen" is the same thing as telling the rat in the maze "you just have to find the cheese that isn't hooked up to electricity"
@@paulhopkins1905 Well, not the ones that can do people harm or if it's nonsensical. Yeah, I guess I was being a bit vague with my last comment. My bad 🤷🏽♂️ 😆
I feel this deeply. There are only two women in this world that validate my feelings. One is my wife fortunately. My own mother is not one of them. I get the invalidation from my mother and sister. I need to work harder and buck up if I express the challenges I go through.
This. I have been told this all growing up. now don't get me wrong, I have surrounded myself with better people and friends that do not do this. but that still doesn't mean I have the memory of growing up being told "it doesn't matter".
I went to couples counseling once in my early 30s. I didn't feel like I was ready for marriage, she did. The counselor told me "just get married. You can always get divorced." That was the last time I went.
@@user-gc9ef2np1e oh thats more true now than ever. Marriage is a HUGE risk for men, and not really a risk for women. When a contract (which a Marriage is) *rewards* one party for breaking that contract, then its a terrible contract. There are so very FEW reasons why a man should ever get married, and Love is NOT at all one of them. Love and Marriage have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional and has been conditioned to believe that.
As a man who unfortunately married a covert vulnerable narcissist, when we went to therapy, there was a VERY strong bias to listen to her as she demonized me and when I was struggling to express effectively my inner feelings and cognitive dissonance, I rarely got a full sentence out without being interrupted by either the therapist or my ex. After about 3 months, I finally asked for a private call with the therapist, I discussed what I was noticing and how it was affecting me, and there became a marked difference in the therapy style after that. About two months later, the therapist sat down with me, and confirmed my assessment and suggested I begin working on an exit plan and a safety plan. I'm now divorced, much happier, and seeing the same therapist to rebuild my inner self esteem.
it took 3 months and your direct contacting the therapist for her to realize she is doing something wrong... sheesh i hope she gave you back your money for the lost guarter of a year. Glad you are doing okay now.
how do you identify that she is a covert narcissist? Sometimes I’m confused, that people just have misunderstandings and need to gain clarity. But other times, covert narcissists are so obvious because they are so full of blame and all they can say is how terrible of a human we are and how everything we do is wrong. Everything they say or do is to cause harm and to weirdly control the power dynamic so they gain some weird authority over us. The latter is really obvious, but sometimes they can hide it well when you don’t know them well yet.
@@histkontext If narcissist werent so good at manipulating and getting people on their side they wouldnt be running companies and among the most succesfull billionaires in the world.
@@histkontext I disagree. It takes time and several sessions for therapists to consider and settle on a diagnosis, and this is often far more difficult in a couples therapy setting. The fact that this therapist was able to take in what her patient was seeing and saying, make changes to accommodate him, and finally directly advise her male patient about the wife's personality disorder and how it could be unsafe for her male patient speaks volumes about the therapist's high competence. And she continues to work with the ex-husband. All in all, I'd say he is definitely getting his proverbial "money's worth."
I find guys have to have a positive ability next to the negative ability. Case in point, guys will talk about their feelings if doing something constructive at the same time. Like look I can do x but y I need help. Guys will also "test" relationships with negative statements. Friends will call each other names and joke about it. Fake friends get upset and leave or blowup.
I just realized... All those years growing up trying to express my feelings to my parents because of my failure to achieve at school was always countered with what I should do. I told them through tears, "Do you think I haven't considered that? Do you think I don't want to do that? I want to but I can't". I've never had a good place to express feelings so I've gotten really bad at it. I'd like to describe myself as very analytical, I enjoy math and science and would be able to do well in those classes, but when I had to do things like homework I could never make myself do it. Part of it was a thought process in my head that I already spent 7-8 hours at school so why should they make me do more at home, but I still saw the need to do it. I needed to get better grades to succeed in life and get a good job that I liked. No college would enroll me with a low GPA. I eventually got a bit better and was able to do some of my homework while at school, but the.... hesitancy remained. I couldn't understand why it was so hard for me to just do it and frankly I still can't.
A large part of the reason why so many young men fail in education these days is because the method of education is geared towards educating young women. Young men are being taught with what works for teaching young women. You were at a disadvantage in the very beginning. Your son(s), if you ever have any, will be under the same circumstances.
I went to three therapists with my now ex wife. After the first two said she was doing something wrong we suddenly “needed a new therapist”. As soon as she found a therapist that blamed me for everything it was suddenly the right one. I was willing to accept we were both needed to work on things. So shockingly it didn’t work out. I’m much happier now.
@@aerofight5994 I've noticed the same thing. I can tell a guy friend that I think he was in the wrong in a situation and generally it's accepted as the PoV of a friend trying to help. Do the same with a woman friend and it's far more likely that they'll react badly because nothing in that situation was their fault (according to them). These are general rules and there are exceptions, but these behaviours seem pretty typical.
As a teen I had a woman therapist. I went to her for 4 years and made no progress. I later switched to a guy named Greg (older guy, close to retirement), and made massive progress in two weeks. He completely understood what was going on and knew how to help right away. Sadly he retired shortly after switching to him and I have yet to meet anyone like him.
I think it was because he was close to retirement that let him speak his mind and just gave you all the answers you needed. Because if he was younger and not close to retirement, I bet he would try to keep you around as long as possible and not be much help either. Obviously I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Many women experience the same problems in therapy - a lot of the time, they have had difficulty with feminine social expectations, so when a female therapist tries to “help” her to adjust, the client merely becomes even more trapped by the societal expectations that caused her to seek therapy in the first place… I agree that female therapists often struggle to understand what their male clients need, but I would argue that this is true of many of their female clients too. Meanwhile, male therapists are sometimes good with male clients but, due to their own expectations, fail to recognise those women who require the same treatment, instead adjusting their methods “for women” which may not actually suit her… People are diverse and “feminine” therapy is not universally good for all women.
@@professional.commentator Nah - as you get older your social filters erode and become very thin (and sometimes disappear entirely) and you tend to distill things down to their essence.
My parent's tried couples counseling, my father was treated so poorly by the counseling my mom ended up going off the woman and ending it. Keep in mind mom wanted to go, now she advised all her sons against it. She vilified my dad while supporting my moms bad behavior. Mom used to hit dad, knew its an issue but counselors asked dad how he would fix it. Mom found herself a therapist and they are now mostly happy and no punches thrown.
If he had said he hit her in a session, the police probably would have immediately been called, but I guess it's fine the other way around.🤦♀️ In this scenario I don't think anyone should have called the police since the aggressive party is the one trying to fix themselves, it just seems likely that if a man admitted to it, regardless of the circumstances, the police would have been called. Good on your mother for realizing she was having issues herself and trying to get help. That's hard to do. Also good on her for telling the bad therapist off. Sexism sucks no matter where it comes from, and all too often sexism against men gets ignored.
sometimes all you need is someone commending your bad behaviour for you to realize how wrong it is. you get used to all the "why didn't you do this?" and "you shoudn't do that." to the point where it all sounds like the same crap- meaningless negative garbage. but when you hear someone else justifying those kinds of actions, your brain's confirmation bias kicks in and makes you listen... and you realize what and arse you've been.
In marriage counseling I gave the impression of not 'trying hard enough', or not 'making an effort'. But part of the problem was that at the end of the session, I was driving back to WORK. I was expected to return from my appointment and resume working. I was to be alert and engaged and focused. Naturally I had to hold back in session. I could not return to my workstation and break down crying. I could not operate machinery in an unstable emotional state. I would be a danger to myself and to my coworkers! And so I had to keep a lot of my resources in reserve, and avoid addressing topics that would be upsetting.
I went to a therapist and unloaded some traumatic experiences from my childhood. Alot of it has left me with anxiety over the years. He said "I don't see what the big deal is" and billed me for $275 Never again
I went to a therapist for a year and some more and I she somehow unlocked some terrible repressed memories that may or may not explain some of my problems. I always joke with my wife and also with my sister that the therapist not only didn't help me with a lot of my problems at the time, but also screwed me over with some movie-tier repressed memories bullshit. Keep your chin up, my dude. We will all get there someday. And don't bundle all therapists together. There must be some that can help you!
one of the therapists i had was a whole b!4tch, screaming and VERY CLEARLY trying to manipulate me😂i mean i have a weak mind in a sense but im not a ₽€ÑĐ£JØ like that…it was one of those where you go with your parents and almost every time we ended up in an argument, she and this “doctor💀” wanted to diagnose me with bipolar disorder because i said pills made me feel nauseous and i didn’t want to take any more, and maybe i am bipolar idfk i never got diagnosed like that but if i am it’s definitely not because of pills💀and when she said that i laughed and looked towards my parents, i kid you not they were like “he’s seeing things, he’s delusional too” or idk some diagnosis that made me sound schizophrenic. that’s when i knew i 2000% couldnt take them seriously at all🤣i dont believe in wtv their qualifications may have been, i should repay them a visit and break a window or something for playing with people’s emotions like that
Even being an articulate man is hard because people just don’t care. My mom often says her regret isn’t raising us to be emotionally healthy people, but raising us in an emotionally sick world.
This video has made me insight so much as a man. I'm 26 and just tried therapy for the first time and didn't really like it. My therapist was asking "how do you feel" every time and kept being silent for the majority of the session. I did 10 sessions with her and wasn't feeling like it was working. This video got recommended to me exactly days after i cancelled my treatment and was not really enthusiastic about trying other professional. Almost everything that you mentioned in this video applied to me and i'm astonished. It really shifted my perspective about therapy. I'm definetly gonna apply these tips to a new therapist on the first session already! Thank you so much!
I have seen two male therapists (I am a dude.) One was a veteran and mostly dealt with dudes with PTSD. I felt guilty in his presence like I didn't even deserve to be there compared to the people he had dealt with. Best therapist I ever saw. The other therapist was a lifelong therapist who was very argumentative and wanted to second guess or question every statement I made, it was like walking into a brick wall I couldn't stand him more than a month because I was feeling even worse internally. I can definitely say the best way men can help men is through relation of experience, not language games.
Yeah PTSD can be a rather controversial topic. Because we first discovered it in WW1 veterans, many people think it's an insult to veterans when people say that they got it from something seemingly harmless in comparison. But, your brain doesn't know that being at war is worse than getting bullied on Twitter, and it's all about how your brain perceives things.
I think some times you need to shop around for the best therapist. When you are uncertain about life choices, or have been abused, or may be going through a divorce, or have self esteem issues, these are not small things. They are important, and should be treated with respect. Finding somebody compatible might take time. One time a therapist tried to shame me and scold me. I fired them on the spot and let their boss know why. Turns out they were fresh out of college. I would rather have someone with proven experience.
Duuuude, that attitude of questioning everything you say. Like hi, my dysfunctional upbringing had me trying to find and express a justification for everything I did and every emotion I had like I was a criminal on the stand. Wtaf do therapists think they’re accomplishing by acting like dysfunctional toxic parents?
Hearing people tell their stories who have gone through a similar situation to myself and gotten out of it successfully really helps, the relation of their experiences makes me feel very hopeful as I know it’s possible because they’ve done it.
I have experience with the 2nd kind. I didn't like him, but he was somewhat helpful. As someone who always 2nd guesses myself, atleast some other dude was doing it for me😂
I'm a 50 year old male, and I have been trying to articulate this for the last 20 years as my friends have gone to couples therapy, become resentful, and ended in divorce.
I can't imagine couples therapy working if you're in the room at the same time or the therapist sharing how the other feels. Seems like it would just give her more ammo.
One thing my therapist did with me was to connect my emotions with bodily feelings, like, realizing stuff like "when I'm anxious, that feels like a tightness in my throat, my stomach feeling weird...". and then in future sessions she wouldn't ask about emotions, she would ask about the bodily feelings. I didn't really understand why we did that, but now I can see where she was coming from. she was trying to ground my feelings, presumably because she had experience with other men being unable to speak their emotions.
I never went to therapy before but last year I finally had a mental breakdown and needed the help bad. I have always had bad anxiety but never thought about social anxiety. I found this woman in my area and we started doing virtual sessions every week. We immediately clicked from the first few sessions. The biggest thing with her is she doesn’t ask “how does that make you feel?” when I’m taking about a big topic. She says “what feelings or things come up when you think about that situation?” It makes me pause and reflect on it and think about how I really feel or how this is affecting me. We have only been doing this about 3 months but I can already see the why and how the anxiety affects my life’s and the situations that causes them. She has really opened my mind and brought so much self awareness to my behavior. She has shown me where and how it all started and what we can do to fix it. She makes me feel like we are in this battle together and eventually I won’t need her anymore. I will be someone who can mange any my self and live a happy, stress free life. I encourage anyone out there who is struggling to find a good therapist to never give up because there are good ones out there that want to help people. God bless everyone and I wish everyone well ❤️
A friend of mine picked up on the difficulty I had managing heavy PTSD following years of varying trauma, and told me that it was tragic how men feel the need to keep their emotions bottled up. She ended the conversation by saying that if ever wanted to talk to her, she'd be willing to be there for me to listen if I felt it would help - and so a week later I took her up on that offer, and barely after I got through the first sentence she claimed that no one would want to be with a man that can't be seen as emotionally stable and dependable and that I was being "unfair" to burden her. Of course, I fully understand that we all have our own challenges to contend with and it can be overwhelming to take on more than we can handle. The problem lies with the inherently dishonest position that's become far too common where others will signal the availability of support and act on what they believe *should* be true, only to default when confronted to the usual societal expectation of wanting you to "man up". It's immensely harmful and it would be far better to just not be available at all, than to offer a shoulder and then recant when your feelings are suddenly inconvenient to deal with. It's unfortunate that I feel I have to justify my need for support, but just to drive the point home - this was a few months after I lost my mom to cancer. She was the last surviving member of my immediate family, and the only one I hadn't lost to unnatural circumstances (murders and accidents). I was blessed to have had a wonderful and very supportive family, and this was the first time in my life that I was truly alone with no one to turn to. Over time, I closed myself off emotionally which caused my then-girlfriend to have several mental breakdowns as she felt I was no longer communicating with her. I expressed that I felt like I couldn't open up as I would only be waved off to seek therapy rather than have someone actually listen to me, and after multiple assurances I finally relented... And, of course, I was again told to go to therapy. There's an old cliché about how people seek out therapy when what they truly need is a friend - but where do you go when all your friends tell you to get therapy? *EDIT:* I didn't expect this to pick up the way it did and figured I'd just be venting frustrations into the void, oops. I was particularly cynical when posting and I'm in a much better place now, though I still deeply appreciate all of the supportive comments. Having said that, it's disheartening seeing so many comments expressing relatable feelings and I'm not sure how to feel about finding a sense of solidarity in similar emotional isolation. If you're reading this and feel like you have no one to turn to for support, please feel free to send me a friend request on Discord (@outrack). Even if it's just to hear a few positive and encouraging words from a sincere and understanding place - I may not know you, but I do know that I don't want you to feel the way that you do.
man that's kinda harsh, as a female btw. I felt like why are those who are willingly to open up would be discouraged once trying to do it, especially males like I'm very close to guy friends and i noticed that they barely open up with anyone. I wanted to say that you shouldn't bottle up your emotions but i understand that it is almost friggen impossible cus who to open up to? how to open up when nobody is going initiate support, well I believe they try to, but instead of listening they give advice when they hadn't been in the shoes before (maybe they did but forgot how it felt), and the advice ended up exacerbating the situation. To not get labeled a societal role is almost inevitable, and I think it's unfair if guys had to be strong for a woman, if that's what she's trying to deliver. Bro I hope everything went on better for you sooner or later.
@@MeanBeanComedy even thats a stretch, most of the time its made into a joke and laughed off, many say they care but everyone has their own thing and noone wants to be a burden/have more things to worry about.
@@bradturner7678 Its difficult because almost all men are traumatized by this, and those struggling to repress it have their stability compromised by people trying to express it.
I care man, a lot of people care it’s just hard to find them unfortunately but they are out their. I hope life gets better for you brother we’re all humans and we shouldn’t feel guilt for having very natural emotions.
I saw a therapist once, explained family issues I was dealing with. After everything, they said, “so why are you the one that’s here?” Followed by a dismissive “so… do you want another session?” Had to just flat out say “Not with you”. That lady had no idea how to work with men I’m guessing, unfortunately she put me off to the idea of therapy entirely.
@@zr_1234 I understand that, but I can’t change other people. Figured she would want to work on coping skills or something at least, instead of basically saying “that sucks, are we done yet?”
@@zr_1234 please remember that therapists are supposed to be the ones who are trained to use their words and tones better, not the ones seeking help. Putting the onus on the one seeking help is never really the right thing that early unless it's part of a plan you have discussed with them.
OMG this is probably the best video about therapy I've ever seen. My female friend would always ask me what I'm thinking/feeling and I wouldn't have an answer, because as a guy we don't talk or think about them, but rather try to do something about the problem. This led to us both being frustrated, me because I didn't want to talk about somethings (and either do something about it, or burn the physical energy away for it), and she'd get frustrated because I wasn't talking about the things she wanted to talk about. Thank you DR. K this actually explains so much
I'm a marriage and family therapist, and this is one of the most helpful videos I have seen in a long time. I truly appreciate the time that you took to make this video!
went to a therapist and said "I have trust issues with women" after a series of abusive relationships. Her response was "Well women have trust issues with men too"
What I took away from this was: 1.) Traditional therapy will work best for us guys if we remind the therapist that as men we suck at articulating our emotions, and are hardwired to take action to solve problems 2.) Hit the gym or do something physical 3.) Find a good group of homies to go spend time with, preferably doing some sort of physical activity in person.
Hitting the gym doesn't work for everyone. I've been trying for months, but I get nothing out of it. Absolutely nothing. No satisfaction, no better sleep, nothing.
@@cortster12 the gym is not helpful for me either-I can’t maintain the discipline on my own, nor do I feel pride, endorphins, or all the positive things usually associated with exercise bc I feel so self-conscious and down on myself. Joining a men’s workout group is what worked for me. The one I found is free of charge and doesn’t meet in a gym-just in public spaces like parks and schools. We always meet up early in the morning and go get coffee afterwards. We also do a bit of leadership studies/training and community service. It’s called F3 if you want to look into it; they’re in most US cities. Good luck man
it's ok if ALL needs and issues were dismissed because it's too diverse to fix in counselling. Tedious communication methods are often constructive habits for argumentative couples after 2+ weeks of practice. Some downsides are; being unable to pick up the habit when too emotional; separating emotion amidst discussion can lead to lack of empathy with your kids, and it looks weird to guests.
I have personally hated shrinks my entire life for the reasons that this dude is saying. The way us dudes deal with things is infinitely different than to how a woman does things. It reminds me of how my grandad always said, "ill never understand that woman" when talking in reference to my grandma. You pay $40 an hour to have some old prick attack you from a blind spot, that is therapy 101.
@@tangaleddrag0n853 us dudes? dealing with stuff varies according to the spectrum of personality alongside heaps of other common practical considerations. hormonal stuff seems to have less and less influence, the older someone is. I find about 1/3 of my male AND female friends have analytical-problem-solver personalities as if they have Asperger's.
I'm a man, and I took myself for therapy due to childhood abuse. I was paying lots of money for it, and I always blamed myself for making little progress, if any at all. It was only after I took things into my own hands, so to speak. I went on an adventure. It was a terrifying adventure for me. I moved to the other side of the world and started a new life. I loved it. I grew so much. I learned so much. I felt like a man. Doing doing doing. Learning how to cook, travel, workout, play music, work, make love and more. I still have issues today, but they're shadows of their former selves. I think back to how my therapy went (I was in for 1.5 years or so) and all I can remember is this attitude of "everything is going to be ok", "you deserve a rest", "be kind to yourself" and "don't beat yourself up about it". While that advice can be proffered to men on occasion, it was practically the theme of my therapy. I remember feeling directionless after therapy every time. It was so odd to me. How do I go home and be kind to myself? Take the day off? I didn't know and trying to made me feel worse because I felt like I wasn't making any progress with my life. I was molested when I was 10. I felt like my power, my manhood, my dignity and self-respect had been taken away. No amount of rest, self-love, and hope for better days was effective. I eventually found peace through hard work. Through challenge. Through teaching myself that what happened to me was out of my control but now I'm taking back control. I don't even think about it these days and when I do I don't care. It's history. I learned a lot. So, in a weird way, I'm thankful it happened because it was an obstacle in my path I had to overcome to be a better man. I think that if I had a therapist who focused on helping me improve my skills and competence, guided me towards challenging myself and held me accountable: I would have made progress in therapy. I don't know though. Sexual abuse is complex and it's not a one size fits all. But the typical female advice actually made me angry. Like seriously, what does be kind to yourself mean? I think this works for women. Woman in my life will happily spend the day on the couch absorbing TV rays like a tanning booth and taking relaxing candle lit baths. I have the occasional lazy day sure. But feeling good, I imagine how they're feeling, comes from having a good day. And a good day for me involves hard work. Otherwise, I feel like I'm resting before I start the job and that's just bullshit.
Thats the problem bro, as a men u dont need to beat out the shit of you every single day to feel good brother, i am not saying that u need to be a lazy mf that does nothing but this is how society teaches us how to be a man, there is the "alpha male grind mindset" is not bad, but people over masculinzate like u need to be grinding every single fucking day to feel realizated as a man, thats where u need to be kind with yourself brother, you are a human being more over than a man brother, a human being that deserves to feel happy with yourself doing whatever you like and deserving of love, so take care brother dont be that hard with yourself your are human like everyone on this beautiful world ❤.
@emiliotello3455 much respect, my man. But I just don't see it that way. I'm not suffering. I'm actually really enjoying my life. Work, effort, progress, etc. are things I look forward to. They give my life meaning. I'm not grinding endlessly. I know how to take a break. I just don't want to most of the time. I'm always busy doing something, and that makes me happy. But sometimes, sitting down at the river watching the ducks swimming around is immensely calming and reinvigorating. But waking up in the morning with a load of things on my to-do list? Yes, please. Because when I'm done, I'll have made progress, and I'll feel like I earned my evenings rest. And I like to have fun as well so my evenings are filled with music, people, food, sunsets, reading, spending time with family etc. I take care of myself. Part of that is fulfilling my dreams and passions, and that requires a lot of work to be done. The day I have nothing to do, just take me out back and shoot me between the eyes.
@@Krazymarmo if that makes u happy thats enough, but keep an eye that sometimes when people need to always be doing things is cuz they are missing something inside theirselfs so you over charge ur mind with this things in order to avoid thinking about out inner self brother, i am not saying thats ur case but u should see this video might help u: Dr k "There is a crisis going out with man"
Wow... Well, a few years ago and until less than a year ago, I was dealing with depression and other self-esteem issues, and being completely alone and when I was left without any kind of support, that's when it seems that it clicked and I started to get up... That is, it took me a few months, but here I am, physically nothing changed and my life context remains the same, nothing has changed, but I fixed my mentality. They recommended I go to therapy, but I think I would be a victim, I don't have the money, time or desire to go, and there is no guarantee that it will even help anything. But instead, it seems I just got tired of wallowing in my misery and started changing my way of thinking... in my own way. But I think that you do have to be kind to yourself, this does not mean that you do not demand yourself, this means that you should not be cruel to yourself, Do not victimize yourself or try to destroy yourself, you must forgive yourself, be patient and move on. And I understand that perhaps mine might look small compared to your case, but it reminded me of my own experience, and I think it is quite healthy to find your own way out of depression on your own and without help, The problem is that I don't know how I can apply that experience to other people and I honestly don't know how I could help them. But reading about how you have found the light at the end of the tunnel and fulfilled yourself as a human being is inspiring.
I wont lie, when I'm with my friends and they need to vent about anything, I'm there for them. As men, I know a lot of us are afraid our feelings will be weaponized against us by the people we confide in. I let them know that I will never do that. I would sooner die than betray their confidence.
That's awesome, but I think this kind of friendship can be rare outside of churches, support groups, and groups of gay men🙄 at least that's my experience🤷♂️
@@PivotGrowth is it really that wierd? I've got several good friends that were suicidal in the past that, luckily, survived their attempts. I've lost one of my cousins and close family friend to suicide. It's not wierd. In my experience, it's direly needed for men to have someone they can reliably talk to about important or embarrassing matters that won't turn their preceived weaknesses into weapons to be used againat them.
Good man. I do something similar, I'm always there for anyone. I make a cup of tea and just listen and talk with them. When I need help that's where I struggle. I mask it and just retreat into the mountains either on a hike or work out (I took up fencing recently so I practice my sword drills for hours on end)
I went to therapy at college for getting sexually assaulted when I was a kid and because it was SA related they send you to a local SA therapy clinic where they specialize on it for free thankfully :) Parts of it helped but overall it was a negative experience not thanks to the place itself but because in the waiting room for my person sometimes I would be sitting there in a corner waiting and women would come in and loudly ask the reception lady "Are men even allowed in here?" and shit like that. I understand they have trauma and that sucks and is fair but I got mine from a woman so it would be shitty for me to ask the same thing about them.
Nah fam it aint understandable. If they got a trauma by being sa'd by a black dude would they say are black people allowed here? No trauma is excuse for sexism in any way.
I'm sorry that SA happened that is always terrible. and the biased treatment was so unfair when you were being so brave happened to you. None of that was ok A woman from Aotearoa New Zealand
@@KakhsXe thanks doing a lot better I focused on building a good body to make up for high nervousness around women so rn I have been waiting and letting them flirt with me and I got asked out at work last week so hopefully I'll have a date and see if she is a good partner or not the best match and if it ends up getting canceled all good
It’s not just therapy that sucks. Life sucks for men. You’ll only ever be appreciated for what you provide. The slightest sign of weakness or insecurity will render you undesirable. You’re not allowed to experience emotion. Or, at least not seem externally as if you’re experiencing emotion. At least negative ones. If it’s dark now, YOU have to do everything. No one is ever going to turn the lights on for you. YOU have to seek therapy, and YOU have go to the gym, and YOU have to turn the lights on for yourself. You have to find the will and motivation. No one else cares
I probably shouldn’t say this but as a psychotherapist (and man) myself, I think one of the largest issues that isn’t talked about in the world of therapy is that there is a bias - theoretically, and practically - that negatively impacts men. I can’t tell you how many female therapists I’ve spoken with who have a negative view of working with men, but don’t see how feeling that way could possibly impact working with said men. Either they straight up don’t work with them, or they speak very negatively about men and their issues. Women have legitimate emotional problems, but men are “resistant to treatment” or their problems are “toxic masculinity”. What I’ve found though is that men just need people to work differently with them, and that’s ok. But I think there are many therapists who can’t see that, or don’t want to, because it’s incongruous with their worldview.
Earlier in life, it'd often take me weeks to months to feel comfortable talking about my abuse with a therapist. The problem was, I was a big strong guy (even as a teenager), and my abuser was a woman. She'd use weapons (got stabbed, burnt, beaten) and sometimes she would self-harm then call the cops if the physical abuse wasn't getting the impact she wanted (I learned to take a beating). It was pretty bad. What stopped the worst of the abuse is I made it clear- if I was accused of a crime, I would do it before the cops showed up. Thankfully I never really had to do more than threaten- but made it clear (in therapy) I would fight my abuser if it was pushed to that. Out of the many therapists I've had over 20 years... I'd say about 80% of the women would after knowing me for months, diving into all these problems, all these issues- when this finally came up, they'd just have this look. They'd stare. Like they were looking at a piece of garbage. Like you would regard a child molester. Once I got that look, I'd just stop scheduling and give up on therapy for a year or two. I eventually just gave up on female therapists entirely which makes it near impossible here to find one. It's not just a 'bias', there's tons of genuine misandrists who are hijacking psychology. In no world would a woman be treated in a similar way to a male victim.
@@Rainsoakedcoat “tons of misandrists hijacking psychology” not only that, but then to have the audacity to complain that men don’t go to therapy enough. Like you made it not a safe space for men, it’s there for women to complain about men…
@@Rainsoakedcoat I hope you're doing better. I've read countless men's testimonies like yours over the years, mainly on YT comment sections. I know exactly what you mean (not from personal experience). Still, everyone enthusiastically tries to pretend this isn't happening, or find excuses for the female perpetrator, or blame the male victim.
This is accurate. I tried therapy twice. Both times for serious life altering depressive situations. Both times were awful and a waste of time. I felt dismissed and not listened to. The reason men are there is because they want to solve the issue, but don’t know how. By the time a man is in the therapist office, they’ve tried to fix the problem on their own already, but failed. We finally realized we don’t have the “tools” so to speak and we go to the supposed expert to find out how to deal with our issue. The absolute worst case is to get there and to be dismissed. In the end I just had to solve my own depression. Unfortunately, a lot of men don’t figure it out in time.
On and off over the past decade and literally none of it actually helped address the root issues I already knew were the issues and straight asked for help with. 🤦♂️ I know I'm being medicated bc therapy is failing me, but it works better than the failure -.-;
This. I remember having my therapist tell me 'You dont really seem depressed, here just say these affirmations in the mirror each day' In response to me trying to explain how much I wanted to die, but hadnt offed myself because I have people that depend on me. Yeah, telling yourself 'You matter' doesnt really cut it
Finally started therapy today with the encouragement of this video after a couple years of depression. I used to go as a kid but didn’t utilize it much. Excited to start this journey and hopefully improve.
I went to see a therapist once or twice and after the 3rd visit I realized she was constantly gaslighting me and I had proof of it, so I told her straight up "It's clear to me you never had any intentions to help me so why don't you go screw yourself because I wont be back", after that I went camping in the woods for a few weeks and that did me more good than ANY therapist ever could, being alone and in nature...nothing better. Edit: Initially I wasn't going to share this part of the story but I figure, cat's already out of the bag so why not? When I got back I reported my experience to the authorities and at first nothing happened only to find out about a week or so later her license was taken away turns out they had complaints from males practically a mile long...just goes to show you, your past will always come back to bite you given enough time.
This is why reporting is ALWAYS a good idea if you can manage it mentally. Because even if your report doesn't cause them to get removed, it gets added on a pile, and eventually, that pile gets big enough.
Sorry that happened to you. I haven't had negative experiences with therapists, but I can attest to the benefit of spending time outdoors. I ended up going into a line of work that spends a lot of time in nature and my mental health has never been better.
Jeeeez, that’s insanely damaging when therapists are abusive. You trusted them to have your back and show you compassion and care in your most vulnerable moments. Talk about an expeditious way to break someone’s trust. I hope that respectful and compassionate people come into your life, you deserve to be cherished!
Lifting weights, having a solid friend group, and cleaning up my home have done more for my mental health than the thousands of dollars I spent on talk therapy over the years.
A man: *bottles up their emotions* World: "Find someone to talk to about your emotions" Man: *finds someone to talk about their emotions* World: "Aren't you supposed to be the tough guy?"
To be honest, it was really good to hear your descriptions and explanations. I’ve always kinda felt unable to always place my emotional state, and tbh I don’t always like thinking about it because I don’t like coming up with blanks, especially if the emotion I’m trying to find is connected to someone important. Keep doing good work man!
I was told as a child "why are you crying? You shouldnt be crying. You shouldnt be feeling this way." I now have some difficulty articulating how I feel because I've learned to shut down my feelings to keep the peace and not express my needs, hence not being a 'burden'. It's led to people pleasing too. Thanks for pointing out why therapy for men is not the greatest. I really value your logical step by step guide to help my anxiety. Your rational and logical reasoning resonates with me ALOT.
In my case I don't even want to articulate it. It feels like I am complaining and I pretty much know no one will care to offer me a solution. I don't want to be heard, I want solutions.
@@Leonhart_93Are we clones because it is exactly the way I feel. I guess you had mental issues and you parents wouldn't believe you so at some point you started wondering if you are not just acting your mental issues to be lazy or something. And now everytime you share it to someone when you look at their facial expressions you feel like they are thinking "ROH he's complaining again". And maybe some ppl you trusted and believed you could talk to were very unsupportive giving you the "you think you're the only one who has issues" card. Did I get it right? 😒
I was always told whenever something went wrong "you'll live", was expected to keep my mouth shut at all times, and looking hurt or sad will make my father very angry.
I was told also that when I was a little girl, but I believe the thing that help was that I find a way to express those feelings with my friends (mostly females). It's still hard sometimes, and when I want to cry my first reaction is still to suppress that emotion but I'm glad that I found people that help me to cope with it. I hope you find people around you that understands that crying is a natural thing and sometimes even beautifull❤
I wish there were more male therapists out there. I was always bullied by a female teacher in elementary school, so I find it really hard to open up to women in these sorts of fields. It’s so much easier for me to open up to make teachers and male therapists. Women can make me shut down.
Yeah, women tend to be good at doing that to men. Society let's them get away with it and sees it as a funny joke when they do it to men, but god forbid the shoe is on the other foot. My own therapist I just got rid of insulted me for opening up about certain things. There's a reason why they told Samson not to open up to Delilah. I wish there were more male therapists as well.
That's up to men to do. Y'all have to stop collectively believing that care work is feminine and lowly, and then systematized this through insufficient pay, low regard, etc. It's a "y'all" simply because men won't listen to the gender minorities who do cry out that toxic masculinity/ patriarchal standards need to be done away with. So idk what else can be said about addressing the issue 🤷🏽♀️ It all still points back to patriarchy.
As a man, I tried to open up about my anger towards women and the therapist immediately went straight to asking me if I hit women. That's when I knew therapists weren't on my side
I've never had a therapist that worked out. I absolutely hate therapy. As a woman, who doesn't play video games, I still get more from your videos than any therapy session. As a mother of sons, I find your videos very insightful.
As I young man I went though a fairly traumatic event and was sent to therapy. It took several therapists before I found one that helped. Rather that talk in the office we would go for walks. After I graduated I still kept in contact. I feel that he saved my life and he is a major part of the reason I am a Therapist today.
Thanks for sharing and thank you for your service! After reading these comments, and hearing from this therapist himself, it makes me sad how people have such poor experiences with therapy. I had a very similar experience to you, and am sitting here thinking how I would love to be a therapist just to give back what I had gotten out of it. Unfortunately, 2 years of student loans for an LSW does not sound appealing.
@@leprechaun3677 just to clarify, I did not serve in the armed forces. My career as a therapist is my way of giving back and I love that you feel that calling to. You don’t have to be a licensed therapist to do what I do. Some of the best therapists I know are bar tenders and Uber drivers. Thanks for the comment!
I have a friend that actually had a judge appointed therapist for a bit, and little walks and drives and meals together was actually all they did. No office or couch sit downs or anything. Turns out it was all therapy and psychoanalysis for the courts The dude was basically cleared of everything because he wasn’t abusive, it was entirely a PTSD reaction that was actually withdrawal and not lashing out physically or even verbally to any and all triggering stimuli. His girlfriend at the time was just clumsy but wanted the attention She unfortunately wasn’t charged but he thankfully was cleared of everything and even got a therapist that specialized in PTSD in that walk and talk formula to boot and is doing much better mentally and physically
Good comment. I remember when I had a tough few weeks in high school, and a walk with a MALE advisor talking was all I needed. Also, giving me a sharp word to get off my *ss and get to work, or stop complaining and start solving, and the big one...listen more.
@@357Dejavu As someone who did serve in the armed forces, thank you for your service. Therapy is an infinitely more valuable service than the one I provided.
Not only do men often feel outgunned in therapy, they also often feel outnumbered. As an articulate, emotionally self-aware man, I can speak from my own experience with both individual and couples therapy that there seems to be a strong bias toward validating a woman's perspective and feelings, and "correcting" a man's perspective and feelings. From what I've experienced, therapist have been very quick to interrupt, argue, and nitpick me, trying to find some sort of "gotcha" rather than trying to listen with empathy and understand the message I'm trying to convey. One therapist (an older black man) was initially supposed to be a couples counselor, and after the very first session of listening to me and my ex's perspectives separately, he decided to focus on counseling me. In the months going forward, nothing I could say to this man would be heard in any way that challenges the picture that my ex (who had cheated on me, was a self-admitted manipulator, and had every reason to convince herself and the therapist that our relationship was unsalvageable despite still having feelings for me and us having a child) had painted of me and our relationship. Even in her absence, he maintained that her perspective must be validated, and no explanation on my part for the things she expressed and her motivations for doing so were truly considered. The perspective she shared with him in an hour and a half of talking poisoned the well of my therapeutic relationship with him for the rest of its lifespan going forward, several months of therapy that went nowhere because I was constantly feeling unseen, unheard, and like I had to justify my every perception, feeling, tone, etc. Now I'm with a female therapist (an older white woman), and she's had a similar issue of being quick to interrupt, dominate the dialogue, advise from her own rigid and unempathetic point of view, and talk about ending therapy if I don't stop trying to correct her misunderstanding of the things I barely managed to say before she started interrupting me. Out of the three therapists I've seen as an adult, all within the past year, I've only felt heard and respected by one of them (whom my ex disliked, shocker), who was an older, I believe Indian man. All of these biases I've experienced seem like reflections of biases against men that are pervasive in society overall. Lack of empathy, respect, patience, compassion, and a general focus on "you need to conform your POV to mine so I can fix you". So yes, therapy sucks for men, and it isn't just because men lack certain skills. It's because human beings, including therapists, are biased toward women and against men, particularly when it comes to validating and listening to their feelings, perspectives, and troubles. This is why a close friend will almost 100% of the time get more access to a man's feelings than their partners or their therapists. Because only when people have that kind of bond does their heart actually open up to seeing men as human beings rather than clay to be molded into a more convenient shape.
Societally people care more about woman and their perspective since the dawn of time. Woman beats a man relentlessly on the street, no one bats an eye. Man raises his hand in self defense, everyone suddenly stops to intervene.
@@lemonlupinreuben5362 That... is quite a stretch. Especially the first part. The last part may be true in certain cases, but it's by no means a universal truth.
@@lemonlupinreuben5362 sorry but this is simply untrue. Women have been subjugated by men for the majority of human history as far as we can tell. Women couldn't vote, work, own property etc. It's is only recently that the gap has been narrowed in any significant way, but men still own and run most corporations, institutions and governments.
Your story reminds me of an experience that I had in college that completely turned me off to the idea of therapy and a therapist wasn't even involved! I was doing a 10 hr a week field experience/internship thing doing tasks that I absolutely hated while still taking full time classes; I loved working with the people and learned a lot, but other parts of the field experience didn't outweigh the misery from the tasks. I cannot describe how fundamentally demoralizing I found the tasks to be - and it wasn't the people, or the environment, or even the schedule and traffic to get to the place, it was literally the tasks that I was performing. They took everything I had mentally and emotionally and gave me nothing back. I wasn't entirely surprised by this, I was familiar enough with the field that I knew the tasks this internship would focus on were going to be hard on me, so I just decided to wait out the semester. But the constant drain just sapped all my energy and had me in a continual low mood that didn't abate until after the semester had ended. This was the most down I've ever felt in my life and I probably could have gotten a diagnosis of depression based on how I was behaving. Again, I was unsurprised by how awful I was feeling, but one guy that I knew was Very Concerned by my sudden change. He cornered me one day and started talking about it; I explained how I felt, why I felt it, and what I planned to do - I was very thorough and articulate and I told him that it would get better once the semester had ended. His reply? 'But what if it doesn't get better?' It was like the floor dropped out from under me. My resolve in my course of action wasn't shaken but the fact that this guy who had more experience in the field then me and had just sat through my explanation of why I was feeling what I was feeling would borderline assert that wanting to close my eyes and not open them until all the crap had passed me by would be the standard of my existence just sent me spiraling mentally. Then the guy started in on how I needed to change my thinking and reframe how I thought about the things that make me feel bad. That, at the same time, pissed me off beyond measure and shattered any trust I had in the guy. Ya know what happened? The semester ended, I started up a new field experience at a different location doing different tasks, and it was the most fulfilling thing I had ever experienced at that point in my life. It got better and was directly related to the tasks I was performing, just like I had told the guy. I admit, I've never actually had therapy. I'm a woman and my parents raised me to be able to reflect on what I am feeling and trace it to find why I am feeling that way and come up with a course of action if I wanted things to change. That interaction that I had was the one time that anyone had ever broached the topic of therapy to me and made it sound like a means to 'fix' my thinking so that I wouldn't view the things that brought me abject misery as a things to be escaped. It angered me that this person who didn't know me thought I was so ignorant of myself that any conclusion I came to should be immediately dismissed. Now, I am aware enough to know that therapy is not inherently bad and I can concieve of circumstances where the way in which one thinks does need to be reframed. Like for anorexia - that's not healthy we need to reframe the concept of food and body image so that people don't starve themselves to death. However, I don't think that the decision to use therapy like this - that is, as a means to change how people think - is a decision that should be made lightly; and it makes me very hesitant to engage with mental health services when it sounds like mental health treatment would be used pressure me into thinking the way that the mental health professional thinks is correct. I'm sorry that you had that awful experience. There can be benefits to having a third party help facilitate communication, but its nigh impossible when that third party can't maintain neutrality. And I agree - a close friend or even family member who understands you and how you think can be just as helpful in getting your own head on straight. Also, sorry this got so long! I seem to be incapable of stating things concisely lol!
How much did all that wasted therapy cost if you don't mind? Or is it fully covered by insurance? Therapy to me is an expensive waste of time. I have no interest in "talking about my feelings" unless there is a clear objective in solving the cause of those feelings.
I think I understood how it works and it can be summered up in some sentences -If other people fix,control,supply your life for you, just venting to therapist is fine. -If you know you are the only one who cares about your life, straight speaking to problem - solution is the way, since only this will remove the trigger. Example: 1) I cried on my therapy session and we spoke how being poor kills my mental health, so I am planning to wait for a much wealthier men to date. 2) I found out what is root of my bad mood, it is being poor so I will get better and apply for a better paying job.
Had one friend during highschool who loved to give hugs, each time our group went out, her way to say goodbye was a big hug. I feel that, were It not for her, and another friend who would take time to listen to me, I wouldn't have gotten out of that pit I was in back then.
I have been troubled by this idea that 'to stop male suicide men just need to talk more' is extremely dangerous. Instead the answer is in my opinion very complex, and involves largely how society treats men.
I think the truth is far more nuanced; to stop male suicide, men need to feel connected. Talking is the gold-standard, but sitting silently next to someone who makes you feel safe (man or woman) is still connection; the core requirement is knowing someone cares. Clinical depression is a killer because it tells you that nobody cares, even when they do.
I hate that crap too. They want us to be like women when women actually attempt suicide at a higher rate but are simply less capable of carrying out the action than we are. If we start to act and think like women our rates will go even higher because we are actually more capable of doing it.
@@Merciful_Angel I agree in part. But the idea of talking/ talking therapy being the panacea is what concerns me. I appreciate it is the gold standard (alongside antidepressant medication) but I do challenge this idea. The literature basis for talking therapy efficacy significantly biases towards women. I maintain how men a are treated (actions towards them) by partners peers and society is the driving force behind the disparity behind men claiming their lives at an alarming rate. This is why I challenge the notion that if only men would talk more it would all be ok. In reality society needs to look at how average men are treated. And not assume that a tiny percentage of successful men are representative of the population.
@@Merciful_Angel "to stop male suicide, men need to feel connected." I disagree. They need a sense of (achievable) purpose. Women have stronger social needs in terms of connectedness, men have more functional needs. Not that men they don't need connectedness at all, just that purpose is a stronger driver / motivator for men. The zeitgeist and therapy in particular tend to be tailored more towards the feminine psyche.
I tried Therapy for a bit. Each session started with making me rate my last session from 1 to 10. Then we'd spend a good bit talking about stuff he mentioned. Just when the conversation starts to get good, it's over, and you have to pick it up next week. By then, all the energy is gone, and you're back to square one.
Couples counselling was HEAVILY biased towards blaming the guy and believing the woman. The counsellor was reinforcing her narcissistic traits and I got steamrollered. It didn't save our relationship just made it worse.
Sadly,we only know your side of the story. I've seen couple counseling work,mostly narcissistic men and females tired of playing mom. Not that it can't happen the other way,it does.
@braken63 well in my case my partner had to be mom as her daughter is not mine. The issue is really that the counsellor should stay neutral. They didn't know me nor my partner and yet they seemed to form an opinion before i even spoke. They were shouting me down so I left and lodged a complaint against them. Completely unwilling to listen to anything I had to say because I had kept quiet and allowed my partner to speak.
@@martynbrown8210 it does sound very rough. In a case like that,it's not couple therapy that's needed,but individual therapy for her. That being said,a narcissist going there for more than a couple sessions is something very hard to accomplish. Still,very nice of you to even try. Sorry if i came across as if trying to diminish your particular case,I just see a lot of shit in my region and wanted to share that point of view.
@braken63 yeah, i don't really want to go into stuff that's private to her. She's been through enough before i was there. She just can misinterprete stuff i do and i get lumped in with the " all men are b's**ds" narrative.
I went to couple's therapy once with my wife. She complained about my poor memory. The therapist asked, "If someone was going to die if you failed to remember something, what would happen?" We replied in unison, "Then someone is going to die." We both came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time and We just resolved to say what bothered us, and if we didn't complain about it, we didn't get to be angry about it. And we've been together for 33 years.
I've never been to therapy or anything, but the few therapists and psychologists I've known over the years have completely put me off of ever trying. The fact that none of them were ever "solution oriented" is what keeps me from ever going. What I honestly need is just solutions to things. I know what my problems are and my hang-ups. I usually just need someone to tell me "here's how you fix it" and then push me to fix it. What I ended up noticing is that the last girlfriend I had basically did that stuff for me. She was very logical about most things and always offered solutions or goals. It was never, "if you want to be with me, you should apply yourself and get ambition". It was always, "Oh, you think the workplace is run like crap? Why don't YOU run it, then?". Which, inevitably, turned into a discussion on everything I knew, all my skills, and then how to apply all of that to move up the ladder and get better jobs until I was running things. She taught me a lot of "lateral thinking" as well. Not every problem needs to be bashed head on until either I give or it does. Sometimes, going AROUND the problem is more beneficial and smarter. But, her and I don't really speak much anymore, and we've been broken up for like 3 years. So, I find myself in this aimless place again with things I want to do and places I want to be, but no idea how to get there. I want to go see the oceans. I want to go to California once in my life. I want to go to Australia once in my life. I want to go to Maine, maybe. Someplace on that coast. But, I likely never will. I hate traveling. I hate how stressful it is to travel, and I'm comfortable not going. My life is full of issues like this. I know the how and the why of my problems, but have none of the solutions to them. None of the people to push me properly. Especially since I'm risk adverse by nature. I don't think there's a therapist alive who could do anything for me. But, there was a girlfriend once who could and did.
Maybe a life coach, rather than a therapist, would help you? I have no experience with it but I think that's supposed to be the solution-oriented push you're looking for.
I once went to couples therapy briefly once. The therapist often took my girlfriend (now ex)'s side on things, to an absurd level. Like, I recall they tried this one "listening exercise" where we had to state an opinion and the other had to quote it word for word... But she didn't quote it at all and made up a bunch of extra details that I never said and the therapist said she did good. (The prompt was whether we like cats or dogs better, and why. I said "I like cats better, because dogs jump on you and they're heavy enough that it hurts." and she said "He doesn't like dogs because they climb up and get dirt all over you and are messy." as her attempt to quote me word for word) Shockingly, or perhaps not so, in spite of being agreed with 90% of the time, my girlfriend actually hated the therapist because she thought the few times she did agree with me were too much and she felt like it was biased against her...
Info dump for you: If it's a person who assumes things about other people in a quick, condescending fashion, they are pretentious. If they assume that others are up to no good and assume the worst motives in others, they are conceited. If they just tend to assume things in general and jump to conclusions before thinking things through, they are presumptuous. If they assume something they heard is true without questioning or considering, they are gullible. People assume things, because it is their strategy for handling anxiety and a need to control others and situations. Assumptions can also be a way of avoiding emotional pain. By always assuming we know what others think and feel, we avoid the risk of being vulnerable. We tend to take on our parents' assumptions, such as assuming that we do or don't deserve certain things (a good life, money, love) or we should or shouldn't do other things (get married, be atheist, wear bright clothes).We often use assumptions as a shortcut when we lack firsthand knowledge. We assume we know what other people think and this prevents us from learning what they really think. But what we may not recognize is that our assumptions also inhibit us from seeing the truth about ourselves.If someone accuses you of being assuming, he or she thinks you are arrogant or that you take too much for granted. If you take on an assuming tone when you ask for something, people are more likely to feel offended than to be generous. A person who is quiet and modest is often described approvingly as being unassuming. One of the main complaints from women (often times in response to complaints from men) about is the apparent disrespect or resentment that so many men demonstrate towards women. The reason most men resent women is because their perspective is off. They’re focused more on things they can’t control and don’t like. They’re focused more on what others are or aren’t doing, rather than their own (in)actions. The experience of life is ALL about perspective. You’d be surprised at how many rich and beautiful people are miserable. They don’t usually look at themselves from the same lens that their fans look at them through. They’re prone to the same tendency to focus on what they wish they had that someone else has (or what they wish they didn’t have to deal with). It’s the destructive side to the ego. Human nature, or socially conditioned nature perhaps, often times works against us. This is why we it’s important to understand men who have some resentment towards women. It’s human nature to resent certain people or things when your perspective’s wrong. How could men resent women in the first place though? What did women ever do to men? 1) Women represent sexual privilege/authority to the average man. Today’s American male is more inclined to notice the social advantages and freedoms that women have “over men” due to societal norms, perceptions, expectations (or lack thereof) standards, and nature than he is to notice how he may or may not benefit from patriarchy. He sees women getting into clubs free when he has to pay 10 to 20 bucks. He sees the way men are expected to pay for dates during courtship (and drinks at bars). He sees how men are also expected to be the ones to initiate and escalate contact between the sexes. He sees how men are expected to protect their women from harm. Sometimes it seem like all men have are responsibilities, while it seems to him like women have options, luxuries, conveniences, high expectations, and a plethora of sometimes arbitrary standards. Women do have some advantages, but men have as many if not more. The worst part is that many of these men see women as one of the most powerful authorities on his value and worth as a man. The way he sees it, women get to decide which men are worthy of any form of sexual gratification (aside from gay men). This is one of the reasons so many men tend to view women like they’re the government. For the most part these men obey the laws and know that they can’t and don’t really want to overthrow the government, but they still enjoy slandering politicians and debating changes in their local elected officials along with strategies for how to cheat or exploit the system. These men need to adjust their glass is half empty perspective and learn to use their own advantages. Women do have some advantages, but men have as many if not more. Most of the ones I just mentioned only apply to dating and relationships. In the laborforce it’s an entirely different story where women could say worst things about our privileges. Either way, only pessimists and people who find comfort in the victim position focus on their disadvantages and other people’s advantages. Leaders don’t do this. Not to mention, seeing women as government is one of the worst dating/relationship mindsets you could have. To me, that sounds like a stressful civic duty rather than a good time. 2) Some men don’t particularly care for women’s values/interests. The blogosphere is FULL of discussions about the many differences between men and women and the disconnects in perspective we tend to have. We generally care about entirely different things. It’s interesting to see all the different types of things that matter to women that are insignificant, superficial, unnecessary, arbitrary, and sometimes downright odd to men (and vice versa). Men and women live in different worlds it seems, and a lot of men resent the way this disconnect relates to dating, sex, and relationships. There’s a lot at stake when it comes to sexual preferences, behavior, and expectations. Women set the standards for what’s acceptable, desirable, and undesirable in men. This is a level of perceived authority that not all men are comfortable with (as I mentioned in #2). When it comes to attraction and sex women seem to value things in men that men don’t find as important. Hence the resentment. Many men hate how so many women get turned on by demeanor, style, and confidence a lot moreso than substance of character, compassion, loyalty, or intelligence. This isn’t fair because not only does this not apply to every woman, but if these men observed themselves they’d realize that their sexual attraction triggers were even more shallow, primal, arbitrary, and unsophisticated. Even if it were true though, it would also be true that there are countless women who value the same things as you to the same extent you do. Complaining about the ones that don’t isn’t the way to find those women. So I say move to plan B. 3) Women pride themselves on being complex. Growing up in a house with four women I learned right away that women’s standards regarding comfort, cleanliness, and general satisfaction were higher than our government needs the debt ceiling to be. They struck me as experts at finding otherwise nonexistent problems, unacceptable quality, or discomfort in almost any given decoration, service, or product. This isn’t because they’re naturally negative or committed to discontent though. As the creatures of habit we humans tend to be, women in particular are a lot more detail oriented. They almost always value details more than us. This is why it seems like good is never good enough for them. The seemingly trivial aspects of a house, relationship, shirt, person’s tastes, or personality will usually somehow manage to be a lot more nuanced, bothersome, or generally a bigger deal to her than it will be to him. Most men I know desire to be simple creatures, but I can’t say the same for what I see in most women. Women seem to crave challenge, mystery, intrigue, and other complicated things that disturb the peace men value so much. The average man resents the fact that so many women often feel the need to test him and reassure herself that he’s the one for her and that he’s qualified to handle her foolishness in case it flares up again later on. Women can also appear to be reluctant to accept how simple men are and how little we want or expect from them. Perhaps they’re annoyed by this reality because they realize that it means we can’t fully relate to them. Or who knows, maybe they just think it’s boring and disappointing. Even it that’s true, hatred or resentment is not the answer. Just find common ground and give each other space to be who you are. Decide what ticky tackness you can tolerate (from a woman who’s worth it obviously) and set your boundaries on the things you can’t and this becomes a non-issue. On grander scale of things, you as all men are high wired to find a woman, that is similar to patterns you recognise, which is interaction between your mother and your father. These are the types of women that turn you on physically and the only type that you can function with, relationship wise. You are content with that pattern, you are often unaware of how similar your girlfriends are to your mother. This system always benefited men. Women are culturally and socially struggling against, this pattern recognition and teach each other, to pick better then what your know and high wired for, improving themselves through all this overthingking, that men resent them for. That is because system, been discriminating and killing them for hundreds of years, primarily from middle of 1500ies and start of woman hunt, that established global man-fear and disgust with periods and childbirth as witchcraft. Before that, ability to give birth, was valued more then life of a man or life of a soldier.
@evgenia can I have my hour back? At no point during that novel you wrote did you even begin to approach anything even close to resembling a response to my comment. I can only pray that you did actually write all of that rather than having copied and pasted it from somewhere, because there could be no injustice greater than the possibility that more of my brief time on this planet was wasted on this interaction than yours.
Guess the best thing is that she's your Ex now, don't know you or her, and whatever happened i know it can still hurt and suck, but it seems like you got out of a toxic relationship, even if it may had good sides at one time in the relationship, it's probably for the best for you. Getting your words twisted so she's "right" ... no thanks, feels like that your opinion, your words, your feelings aren't worth anything in this relationship you had, just from the little you shared here, but yeah, can't tell if that was the case or not, or just a part of it, just saying it like it looks for me. And yeah, a therapist that doesn't see that was certainly the wrong one. The therapist is there to help both of you, not just one, and more in a way so you both can understand each other better and see what is best for the both of you. So yeah, maybe going separate ways is the best for you. Wish you the best of luck in your future, and, when you ever need a therapy again, for yourself or a couple therapy, that you find someone better!
@@Shadoom90 Thanks, and yeah, I tried to make it work, which is why we went to couples therapy. But, she didn't learn anything from it since the therapist let her slide on every time she got the communication lessons wrong... Its very difficult to live with someone who just decides reality is whatever she wants it to be at any given time and you're not allowed to disagree...
I'm sorry to hear it went like that. Sounds like the therapist was definitely biased in this situation. I hope that if you have future experiences with therapy you will be properly listened to. That's a level of respect everyone deserves, and especially in a service that is meant to help you and that you are paying for.
My personal experience with therapists has been pretty negative mostly for the reasons you pointed out, but with one major difference: I have always been VERY self aware to the point that even therapists and psychiatrists have commented on my ability to communicate my feelings and reactions. This has never been an issue for me; I know how I feel about certain things. My issue is that therapists aren't clear about what they're offering: I came looking for solutions, not introspection. And all most want to offer is introspection. I know how I am feeling, I know WHY I am feeling this way - I just want a way to *MANAGE* these emotions that isn't destructive, and therapists very specifically go out of their way to not offer solutions. I have literally even worked at a mental health clinic and noticed that the communication between patients and providers about what exactly the goals or even the nature of their visits are is almost intentionally obscure; they aren't willing to tell you they're not offering solutions so when men *DO* show up looking specifically for solutions we wind up feeling like we were wasting our time being led on.
@@mujtabaalam5907 I did try CBT for a bit then the therapist left and finding CBT therapists in my area is actually oddly difficult. What I found works best is walking away when I get worked up and talking to a 3rd party about the situation to check if I am overreacting. The difficulty there is that I don't have a lot of people I am close with that I can talk to.
DUDE, you hit the nail on the head, I couldn't have put it into better words myself. Also, I fuck w/ the pfp, that exact picture used to be my Steam pfp for a long while.🐧
The problem here is that real growtrh comes from within. In many situation it wont do it to simply do X or Y. You are the expert for your life. There are so many things they dont see, so they offer input. The bigger Problem is that they failed to identify the core problem.
Okay, time for my little take: I think Therapy for Men is most effective when you're not aware or told it's therapy. Growing up, was HELLA violent for dumb reasons, and my Aunt (who I lived with instead of parents) just told me I was gonna be meeting one of her friends to chat. There was never ONCE over the 7 years I was with that lady a single mentioning of it being Therapy. She asked questions and I answered truthfully, sure it was odd when she sometimes learned how to read me like a book, but the games we played or stuff we did made up for it. Always answered honestly and truthfully, emotions were fully said and while they were always being acknowledged, they didn't overtake the moments of what we were doing (I.e. I'd say i was blindingly mad with someone, but we never stopped playing chess as it was talked about. Or if I got sad over what i was recalling, there wasnt an abrupt pause to really zoom into it, it felt 100% natural). And at least for me, this was the most effective method. Because once I both got a new therapist, and learned what therapy was, I became SO much more aware they were trying to pry those types of answers, feelings, and responses. Nowadays I genuinely can't do therapy, I'm far too aware they're trying to get my vulnerability compared to when I used to. All in all, therapy felt so much better and more effective when I wasn't aware I was being there for my emotions and feelings.
Thank you for this. As a woman, it's helping to confirm things I already suspected about my boyfriend. Because of my high functioning social anxiety I typically need verbal reassurance, and when I wasn't really getting that from him I assumed he didn't care. It took me a while (and a few candid conversations tbh) to realize he does care, he just expresses it differently than me. He has a much bigger appetite but will always make sure I get the first bite of food even if he's starving. I once mentioned being chilly in passing as we were walking fully expecting to just deal with it myself (low iron, I'm used to being cold) only to realize he'd turned on the heat when we got to his car without saying anything. And now, even though he doesn't get cold, whenever I'm with him, he'll ask if I'm warm enough. He remembers small details about things I've said in passing, even if I forgot mentioning it. When I'm talking to him about something I'm struggling with and he doesn't respond, it's not that he's not listening; he just wants to give me space to fully process without judgement because he trusts me to find a solution myself. It's not that he CAN'T talk about things, that's just not his preferred way. As we're both slowly learning and adapting to each other's languages, those small actions have actually been more grounding for my anxiety than any of the verbal reassurance I've gotten before and I feel more secure with him than I have with anyone I've dated. I really am grateful to have him in my life and I hope he knows it!
And that's what relationships are about, understanding each other and understanding that you are different people that need to get along together. I am very glad to hear you're doing well
I also watched this to figure out more about my bf. I, too, need a LOT of verbal love, anything as simple _=$$ pointing out when he something I did, saying thank you, making it clear that he sees me as a positive person in his life. I genuinely feel like he just doesn't like me every much but I have noticed that when I eventually break down and can't keep it to myself just how sad and alone I feel, or if something he's doing (or not doing,) is really upsetting, he will attempt to do better, more, etc but it is hard for me to trust that he likes me cuz we have kids and both feel very strongly about doing whatever it takes to stay together for them so i guess I just don't know if he likes me or is just tolerating and as best he can. I'll try to look for things like what you've mentioned. I would love to find o tout I'm wrong and he just doesn't express himself or even know himself very well
I hope you two end up happily married. It seems like y'all are both willing to learn each other's languages and that you compliment each other very well. I wish y'all the best!
check out (google) "love languages" - was a real eye opener for me. seems kind of hokey but there's some real truth to it. usually at the beginning of dating someone we're doing all of them without really realizing, then as time goes on we revert to our own types and if that isn't our partner's type, they feel like "the spark is gone" or whatever.
Don't hope he knows it, tell him!! I'm sure you have in one way or another, but even reading out this comment to him would probably mean the WORLD to him.
I went to a doctor when i was a younger man, to talk about unwanted touching i received as a kid from an older women. I remember spwcifically doing my own research because i was too embarassed to ask for help from my parents because i couldnt talk to them about what happened to me. First time i was able to open up about what i was going through i was so shaken that i wanted to throw up and the response i got was "well as a young man it couldnt have been that bad". That broke me more than anything did. That took me to the lowest point in my life. Ive never gone back to talk to anyone about this because growing up aince then i really felt like that the only person who would ever be there for me, is myself.
I totally understand where you come from, had a similar problem but never spoke about it for fear of that exact result. The way that I have dealt with it is to simply never let anybody know, it acts like acid and destroys you from the inside out. I can say seek help even though I fear that same help.
I can’t like this, but I can say that this person’s reaction was horrific, your feelings are 100% valid, and what was done to you was not okay and just as exploitive as a grown man touching a underage girl (or boy) in that fashion. It was not your fault; a crime was committed against you by someone plenty old enough to know better! 😡
I'm sorry that happened to you. I've got trust issues myself from negative experiences. Unfortunately the closest to a so-called healthy perspective I've been able to reconcile with the real world is that the most valuable lesson a man can learn isn't that he should work hard or take responsibility, but rather that all his feelings and experiences will always be a joke to everyone else.
Dealing with past trauma with talking therapy alone was destructive. Trauma may not have feelings or language. What helped was a therapy that focused on body sensations that allowed my thinking brain to function and heal. So important that therapy allows a person to function in their day to day life and not be overwhelmed.
Finding the right therapist for YOU is key. Sometimes you get lucky on the first try, and sometimes you need to shop around - which is hard when you're miserable. The first session is too soon to decide, but after the third you should have a sense of whether or not its a good fit. I got a lot more out of therapy when I concluded that I needed to be *completely* honest and share my true feelings. And own my shit. Therapy can be uncomfortable.
This is a peek into a totally different world for me as a woman. This is so valuable. I’ve spent so much time in my life being frustrated at how the men in my immediate family don’t demonstrate that emotional language that’s taught to women, that’s taught in therapy. I see them expressing strong emotion through their behavior and tone, but I have trouble identifying what I’m seeing, I just can see that it’s intense. It’s not fair to expect men to be the one to bridge the entire communication gap. I want to learn how to recognize and affirm the emotions that men are expressing in their own way. It’s also really valuable to have it affirmed by a professional just how vital physical touch and affection is for men. Its so taboo for men to want and receive non-sexual affection. That sounds excruciatingly isolating.
Men have superiority complexes as a defense mechanism, which can be either be learned or taught. A lot of the times it's not overt or blatant, but we tend to put a lot of importance on self-reliance. Those who cannot do so are seen as 'weak' by society at large. So when we show our vulnerabilities, it can be a bit of a disconnect to when comparing their behaviour to how their 'image of a man' should be. People call this superiority complex 'toxic masculinity', either as something inherent or as a culture wide phenomenon that dictates the male gender role. The general impression is that men are the ones who self-perpetuate that culture, but women also subconciously do so (on that, the female gender role is also enforced by both sexes). By the simple act of merely believing in the patriarchy, it cemented itself into the collective conciousness. And maybe there is truth to it, but so long as men are seen as priveleged by virtue of existing, they will never 'need' help.
@@wrexus9585 speak for yourself. Never in my life have I felt superior. Infact the exact opposite. The reason why I and most other men aren't forthcoming with our suffering is simply because we're gonna be shamed and ridiculed for it. People (especially women in my personal experience) use that sht against you
@@inquisitionagent9052 this was a little too deep for you or you read too fast i recon, he isent talking about your feeling superior to woman or stuff, he is talking about mental default systems that men have in them, and that behaviour is the basis for how society treats us, "because we're gonna be shamed and ridiculed for it." is the exact same point but from another angle that OP is making. you dont disagree, but i think there were parts you missunderstood about the post ;) Edit: i gonne take a wild guees on the gender roles and patriarchy being the parts that made you think you disagree?
@@kimandre5842 imagine going to therapy searching for genuine advice but instead being met with a lecture about toxic masculinity, patriarchy and gender. you are part of the problem.
For anyone wondering what he said 5:30 He basically said "Judge you don't understand, my wife drinks a lot of alcohol and then she slaps me, but I can't slap her back so what am I supposed to do in that situation?"
You have given me hope that not all therapists are useless. I have only ever met one that was even remotely helpful and because of bureaucracy the person was forced to change therapists and basically went back into depression and crippling anxiety. I can tell you as a man i think you're onto something. Therapy in general is not my cup of tea but i think you have hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points about men dealing with emotion physically. If I'm ever in a slump, doing something -- anything helps more than any therapy session ever could. Thanks for helping me realize this and for possibly motivating me to just get out and do more.
I got super lucky, my therapist allowed me to communicate things very bluntly and she ended up kicking me out of her office because she said and I quote "you have the tools you need stop using me as a crutch" and any time I feel like I'm struggling again that line keeps me afloat because I remember I have the skills, I don't need to go to the doctor ik if I scrape my knee to put a bandaid on it
It’s funny, as a man I feel that everyone deserves to be able to express their feeling freely and not be shamed, and yet I do feel a very deep and fundamental shame and embarrassment doing it myself. Very much like “everyone’s problems are real except yours.” Therapy has helped me, but I’ve found something interesting; I’ve had better experiences with women therapists than men, I think because even male therapists have this underlying problem. It seems like a quiet solidarity and understanding instead of actually probing into what the root of that issue really is
It is easier to talk to female therapists. I found that mine kept questioning me in an open minded way to get the answers out of me when i couldnt speak for myself!
indirect masculinity competition, I think most men subconsciously don't like to put themselves in a position of "inferiority" to other men, just as no man passes another man with his ass turned around in the gym, just from the front.
Have you ever considered that they have nothing else to go off other than your own word? Psycho-therapy basically relies on your making a Subjective narrative about your Objective reality, and working through it from there…. Regardless, there should be a male-based therapy system that doesn’t treat men like women.
I think you and Dr. K just helped something click for me. Much like you, I've always been a shoulder to cry on. It just feels natural to suspend judgement when someone is comfortable enough with me to be vulnerable. I never really allowed that to be returned to me, not even with trusted friends. I tried various therapists for years, but ultimately I spent the better part of 2 decades convinced that therapy would never, _ever_ be for me. I had only seen male therapists (unintentionally) who just never seemed invested for myriad reasons. My current therapist is a woman, and I've been seeing her for over 3 years now. It's the first time in my life that therapy has ever felt genuinely productive. I wouldn't pin it all on gender - she's easily just a better therapist overall than any others I've seen over the years. But upon a little reflection, it certainly seems like an important factor.
The part about being ashamed to talk about my feelings and issues and instead trying to solve it resonates with me greatly, not helped by the fact that my issue in particular is extremely difficult for me to talk about. I’ve only had one male therapist so far, he helped me somewhat but certainly not at a certain point, so maybe female therapists might help. Tbf I’m doing infinitely better than a few years ago, but it still pesters me to this day
Western society uses it’s members as fuel… Your husband has had his emotional self completely destroyed. He is more productive at menial labor this way ☹️It’s like having one arm that falls asleep constantly, the more you move it, the more the pins and needles hurt. But moving it is the only way to get the arm to wake up again and make the pain stop. It’s a state of agonizing uncertainty and insecurity where both remaining the same is uncomfortable, and making the necessary change is painful
As a guy, the biggest thing that I took away from this video was when Dr K said "as a man, An emotion is a problem to be solved, not talked about". This made so much sense to me as it really resonated with how I feel about my emotions/problems. This is not to say that I don't want to talk about my emotions or that talking about them is a useless endeavor. But really this is how my brain approaches these things. Maybe this mindset was learned or maybe its just how I naturally am, but regardless its what makes the most sense to me.
ive always felt this bias but never really realized it i guess until it was confirmed here . its a strong reaosn why i want to go into psychology , because as a man i feel like i am in a unique situation that allows me to help younger men navigate life
I read a book called Daring Greatly. It was a book written by a female therapist, who in the book has a revelation that men have feelings. I couldn’t believe what I was reading.
I’m sorry, what?!? How can you be therapist, and not already think that!? I think it’s very disturbing to think that “men don’t have feelings” in the first place. It’s like saying, “I just discovered that black people have feelings too.” Wth???
imagine reading a whole book to figure yourself out, and by the end of it the triple degree PHD has only gotten to your starting line lmao P.S. I agree its fucked up, but man thats funny too
We’ve lost a friend to suicide last year. I got a little melancholic yesterday and just told my best friend that I love him and that we tell each other way too little… I’ve never seen him more confused in the 25 years we’re best friends.
@@TeethSkylark Same. It might be a bit awkward the first time you tell your friends, but you''ll get used to it. Now I love saying it, and hearing it back of course!
Im a psychologist, AND THIS GUY IS A MASTERPIECE, unbelivably based, I WAS SURE PSYCOANALISIS WAS A THING FOR SOME PEOPLE AND THAT BEHAVIOURAL THERAPY WAS BETTER FOR SOME OTHER PEOPLE, it ties with this main issue. And you AS A A DUDE as a guy, as a man, you are not wrong for feeling as if you are being wrong done by todays media and society, which btw YOU ARE TOTALLY BEING DONE THAT. BUT BUT true it is that men are responsible for most of the wrong stuff done to women but knowing that doesn't help, what it helps is finally doing something about and acknowledging something isn't right with you, is the very FIRST VERY IMPORTANT STEP, now we can hopefully give a shot to mental health attention
The worst part of therapy for me when I tried it was that, even though I felt I could share my emotions well and felt heard, nothing ever felt _solved._ Most sessions were just "yeah that sucks" instead of ever providing solutions to the problems that made me feel the negative emotions I shared.
Yeah i want the therapist to give me ideas on how to solve problems. They don’t need to be even ideas that work but something other than “that sucks” would be helpful.
Yes! SO many times therapists told me how they emphasize "coping skills," which is the same as saying "just stop caring and put up with it." I wasn't trying to "cope" with my depressions, I wanted to end them! Limit and reduce them at the very least. We so often hear that mental/emotional health should be addressed the same as any other health issues, yet no doctor ever told me to learn "coping skills" when dealing with the horrible pain of my kidney stones. Instead, they had specific procedures that removed the cause of the pain. Yet I was criticized for wanting to change the circumstances that led to my depressions, and was told I had to learn "coping skills" instead.
@@evanc8057 Just recalled something. A few years ago I saw a VA psychologist for a few months. Wanting it to work I asked what we needed to do to make it effective. In a foreshadowing of my future with him he said "What do you think I should do?" (About all he did for was throw my questions back at me, pretty frustrating). I said I expected his thoughts, his evaluations, suggestions for things I might try, perhaps recommendations for things I could read. All he said was "it sounds like you're just looking for easy answers." Stunned, I did not reply. I should have asked him how those reasonable expectations added up to "looking for easy answers." But I guess it's too much to expect a psychologist to actually DO anything.
This was my first therapist. My second therapist actually acknowledges my goal, but my first therapist was basically acting as a listening box and stopped listening the moment I said I drink, and promptly directed me elsewhere. I got Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not going back to that, even if I start drinking again.
When I was a kid my mom called the cops on me saying I pulled a knife on her when in reality I was trying to kill myself. The cops sent me to the hospital in which the "therapists" tried to talk to me in front of my mom in which my mom completely took over the conversation just to dogpile on me while I sat in silence. Afterwards they decided the best thing to do was to lock me up in the mental ward for a month where I looked at 4 white walls for 23 hours a day and the other 1 hour someone would show up to have us "talk about our feelings". When I said that I haf actually grown more hopeless and wanted to kill myself even more the hospital decided to instead make me sleep on the floor in the hall so they can monitor me at all times. The next therapy session I had with my mom there I said the things the hospital wanted me to say just to get out but then my mom took over the conversation again just to dogpile on me some more. I was a 14 year old kid so ofcourse everything my mom says is right and if I even think about speaking up against her im gunna get my shit kicked in and my dads gunna pull guns on me again. From there the hospital locked me up for another 2 weeks in which I did not eat and refused to participate in any of their fake activities. When I got to my last therapy session before they let me go I straight up told the doctors and my mom that the happiest thing I could ever experience in life right now is death and nothing you do will change that. They discharged me and I learned later in life it was because my mom didnt wanna pay the hospital bills anymore but from there I learned or maybe picked up as a safety mechanism that no matter how horrible things get in my life that I can only fix it myself and no one will ever help me. Ever since I have always hated therapists with a burning passion
Jesus CHRIST man…. I never leave comments on RU-vid but this story is insane. I had a decent childhood, although when I was very young I was put into situations where I felt similarly, that I was struggling but not a single person was going to help me but myself. It caused me to grow up extremely closeted and with anxiety and overthinking. I am very independent and self-reliant as a result but I have a hard time communicating with others and it’s frustrating at times. The only thing I want to say is that as a man, your potential and ability to change yourself gets better as you age. Once you’re an adult, the world is yours to achieve and you really can transform yourself if you are willing to make sacrifices and bear the difficulties. Best of luck
Yes, this story is truly insane. Terrible. I can see why people like you hate therapists and therapy. I don't know if you even want to hear this but the problem was the amount of gaslighting and power imbalance being used against you and the invalidation of your experiences - all that piled together. The problem wasn't therapy as such. I completely understand that having had these experiences, that's what you now think about therapy. I can only empathize with you…
I'll say this.... I took a few psychology classes in college and met a lot of psych majors. Many of them were cool, and I'm sure they went on to become great therapists. One of them is a good friend of mine. She's a great relationships counsellor. But about half of all psych students I knew were messed up in the head. I'm talking people with major psychological issues. Many were bi-polar, borderline personality, etc. I don't know it they were getting into psychology to better understand themselves or what, but they were certifiable nutters. It scared me to think that these people might be in charge of another person's psychological well-being some day.
Whenever men open up, it's either met with insensitivity or over sensitivity. Either the person isn't going to care, or they're going to get upset and take it personally. I'm honestly more afraid of how someone will respond to how I feel, than my own mental health.
This would explain why I have a hard time talking to my wife about the problems she faces throughout the day. She doesn’t want me to tell her how I would solve it, it makes her feel stupid. She just wants me to acknowledge how frustrating things are around her. But it does make it difficult to let her know I’m hearing what she is saying, cause repeating “oh, that sucks” over and over again just feels so disingenuous 😂
That really hits the nail for me! My partner frequently complains about feeling stupid after I said something but in my view she's up there with most intelligent women I've ever met. I'm just a "solution hunter" 😅
Nothing wrong with that as long as you are actively listening. It's not disingenuous to just sit there, hear her out, acknowledge that you understand her frustration, and leave it at that. I also used to want to be a "problem solver" when my ex would discuss similar things, and it quickly became apparent that a person will specifically ask you for advice if they want your input in that way generally. It only becomes an issue when someone complains about the same things interminably and hasn't taken any steps to change the situation at all. Sometimes circumstances can't be change except in the long-term though, like perhaps someone needing to stay at the same shitty job for the time being just to have money coming in at a certain stage in their life, but serial whining can be aggravating after a long time.
I have turned what used to be a great relationship into what would inevitably fail because i shared my emotions. My girlfriend asked me to open up to her thinking she could help with depressive tendencies. I took her up on it Within a week of our conversation, the energy between us felt almost as if she had lost respect for me. She didnt feel like i was as dependable as i was before she knew i had emotions. Within a month, she cheated on me. We dont share emotions simply because society always turns their backs on the men who do. Nobody cares what we feel, only what we can provide.
Damn bro, sorry you had to go through that, don’t let that shit get to you! While it is true that most women are like that there are some who genuinely loving and nice who will stick with you through thick and thin. So keep searching for that good one cause god knows we all are.
It's generally true that you should never confide in or show weakness to your female partner. While there are some females out there who are awesome most will eventually use it against you and lose respect for you. To put it simply the ones who will help you and understand are vastly outnumbered by the ones who will lose respect and use it against you, it's a bad bet to make. My guess is this is largely a biologically ingrained tendency in women. When a woman says she wants an emotional or emotionally intelligent man what they usually mean is a man that can deal with their emotions. It is generally not a two way street despite what they may say.
Cheaters really are the worst human beings. They'll stab you in the back, tear your heart out, and then make you feel like it's somehow your fault you're so stab-able.
For how much discourse and social action there is about women being systemically treated unfairly as sex objects, there is nothing outside of the disgusting red-pill world willing to address this universal male experience: Men are treated systemically unfairly as “Success Objects.”
My wife is one of the few people who I feel like I can genuinely share my feelings with. I'm sorry that happened to you, that really sucks. But if she cheated on you for that, she's not worth it.
I am a guy. I went to a therapist for several years due to reasons. I finally got comfortable enough to tell her my real feelings and thoughts. The look of horror and revulsion on her face is the only thing I remember of that therapy time. She told me I needed to get religion. I stopped going. I went to another therapist for a few years. I told her the real me much sooner because I didn't care so much anymore what she might think of me. She didn't bat an eye. Several months later and no real change in anything, she told me I needed to get religion. I stopped going. Sample size of two, but it started me thinking: Is "You need to get spirituality" the "I don't know how to help you" of therapy?
I've had male and female therapists. The ones that did the best work w me were always "paternal" imo. They didn't "how does that make you feel?" too much, they said "you're in a cycle" or "how can you overcome the way you feel about or interact with this so you can better your life?" They're understanding but straightforward, compassionate but corrective. Even when I want to just complain and vent and blame my sad circumstances or my abusers, I'm told instead "you have experienced tragedy but I'm here to get you to stability, not rub your back through crisis." The dialogue ultimately encourages and focuses on action or at least proactive mental overhaul, and I believe this is the healthy middle ground.
As a man, who was raised by a single mom, this actually opened my eyes as to why I've always felt like the odd one out of my friends groups. I would always be a mix between feeling and action and have been to therapy when I was a kid. I never understood why some guy friends were a bit too douchey or why talking about feelings was so taboo. Weird. But great to acknowledge.
Yea same here. I technically had a father while growing up but he barely ever interacted with me and didn't fulfill the fatherly duties he was supposed to do. And I'm also an only child so that stunted my social development. I also remember feeling the same way about how most guys would act like douchebags for no reason and it would piss me off. My mom raised me to be a goody two shoes type of person and so I thought being that way with other guys was normal but the older I got, the more I realized that women don't know how to properly raise boys. It's like a bird teaching a dog how to fly. Boys are supposed to be raised by men, and especially by men with a good heart. Women can try their best to raise boys, but unless they've truly been in our shoes, they won't know what it's like and that certain things don't apply to males while other things need to be taught before it's too late.
Spot on, I have a similar story my dad was always at work and was busy doing what he wanted to do. My mom raised me to be a goody good and a nice guy, I struggled with woman for years. I ended up going to jail and met alot of bad people, but met some good strong men. Once I got out I had no issues getting woman. They seemed to like my more masculine energy then I had when I was younger. Woman cannot raise men, we are equal, but very different.
I never got over my mental issues until I stopped listening to therapists and stopped thinking about all the labels they put on me. I didn't think "Oh, I do X because I'm Y" I thought "I have issues like everyone else," and stopped giving them power over me.
I'm extremely fortunate that i am surrounded by male friends who are emotionally available and nurturing, and we can talk to each other about what we're experiencing in the world. Not one of us would ever consider running the others down for having an emotional experience. We hug each other when we need it, we let each other cry when we need it, and we listen. And at no point do we question each others' masculinity. It's just alright for us to have an emotional life.
As a man you can always be more emotionally open with male friends, generally speaking I'd say don't talk about any negative emotions you feel to your female friends, I used to approach this with an open mind and while women like to be heard, they don't like listening, men like communicating in more ways than women and you often get a better experience from men.
@@-haclong2366 Well those are all massive stereotypes and even encourage exactly said stereotypes. My experience and the ones of everyone I know contradict yours completely.
I've been diagnosed with depression most of my life, and I've been acutely burned out since my career collapsed after the crash of 2008. Every psychology book I turned to since 2013 about depression, burnout, self loathing, all of them were written very clearly with the expectation that men would never read them, and these books wound up implying that men cannot have these problems because they are the source of these problems in women.
The analysis of male priveleage, however much you agree with it at a societal level, has been detrimental at an individual level for male mental health discussions. These sociology based analysis basically take what Carl Jung calls, "the statistical man" to inform their worldview which, as your comment implies, actively silences someone like you trying to seek help.
... so how did you arrive at the conclusion that men would never read them if they discuss the real occurrence of male privilege -- which 1) must also be brought into men's awareness for those issues to be dealt with, and 2) while not being THE cause of all the issues that individual women face... does actively contribute to collective and systemic issues? *That aside, books and information are not sufficient to address depression and mental illness.* It takes acombination of work with therapist(s), information, maybe meds, and other tactics.
@@Heyu7her3 The books I'm referring to did not mention in their titles, cover blurbs, or advertising that they were solely for women, but the text assumed the reader was a woman and only ever referred to men as the source of the problems facing women. I am aware that self-help material is relatively low effectiveness most of the time, but therapy for most of my life made me much worse due to a combination of simultaneous issues that most therapists were not equipped to handle, in some cases the therapists dropped me for their own mental health because my case was so overwhelming for them. I also had long periods of time when I couldn't find a therapist accepting new patients at all. I got better access to treatment once remote therapy became common.
There's a time and a place for confronting men about privilege and its effects, and when they're seeking help for depression, self-loathing and burnout, that's kind of the opposite of the time and the place. Also, the various gender roles come with various upsides and downsides (see for example: this video), those upsides and downsides aren't distributed evenly throughout the population, and it can be very galling to be told you're privileged when you're suffering from the downside and it doesn't feel like a @&+! privilege.
@Heyu7her3 this is insane. It's not depressed men locked in their apartment causing your problems in the world. It's people in charge who yes are by and large men. If you pathologize being male of course men aren't going to listen, especially men who are dealing with the same shit.
I just dropped my first therapist because he wasn’t giving me any real feedback or guidance. It felt like he would essentially respond to my long diatribes with generic platitudes, and he was essentially telling me things I already knew, just in a flowery way. I appreciate encouraging to go to at least three therapists before giving up. It’s a nice reminder that, just like primary care, not all therapists are right for you. That doesn’t mean the practice of therapy isn’t right for you.
I actually had good luck with mine, dropped my 1st one because her style was too different to what my mind could play around with (she had more of a visual way of doing it, with figures and actually generating a story on a table, didnt work at all for me), my 2nd one though..... its like she speaks my language, even if i have a very weird physical response to something (some odd tell signs i didnt know existed) she actually helps me identify the emotions thats causing it, asks me if thats correct, and starts digging into parts in my life where i felt similar, now she has been my therapist for abit over 3 years and i couldnt be happier. (abit of backstory to know why i actually go, rough childhood where i was locked up for 18 years by a emotionally unavailable schizophrenic mother, my father wasnt around at all, so i never learned to actually be human)
My first therapist was like this. She was nice, but not helpful. My second (and current) therapist is under the table, and she is MUCH better. She doesn't tell me things, she asks me things. She asks me the right questions to help interpret my feelings and desires, it's worked wonders. And sessions are scheduled by me, not weekly, so I only have an appointment when I have something to talk about.
There is no inherent filter for smart or attentive. Anyone who wants to go through the education and can endure it gets to be a therapist. And they get paid regardless of the outcome, so with the current shortage of therapists in my country there is no filter for success, either. Which really sucks if you are somewhat intelligent and have already spent some time brooding over and researching about your problems. The more you know, the better you can trick yourself into believing you're hopeless case.
That's literally all they do its a made up job. There is literally a total of ZERO evidence for therapies efficacy. All the modalities they sue are "equally" as effective as the next one they make up. Todays hot shit is CBT tomorrows will be some other nonsense.
@@Volkbrecht Shortage? I live in a smallish city and there are dozens available. I went through 5 or 6 before I found the one that works for me, which was speaking from a logical and scientific level of PTSD, addiction, etc. and not emotional jibberish like, "let's discuss your childhood". I had one hippie that replied to my, "My childhood was awesome, I don't need to discuss that. I KNOW when and what caused my spiral - I fucking died. Painfully. And I remember every second of it, I can still feel it" and she insisted that I still needed to talk about my childhood. Uhhhhh, what? Nope.
Now imagine as a man having been bullied and shamed all your life, wanting to fix these weaknesses and always always failing even at the most mondane productive activities and then... At 40 years old, finding out that you've had ADHD all your life
Hope you realized all the things you were bullied or shamed for aren't wrong either. It was just some other people who were unhappy picking at the different things you liked or did. No need to fix the "weaknesses", live your life using these things as your strengths.
I went to therapy for my divorce. It didn't seem to deal with my issues. While in therapy I went to medline and read through a few hundred articles and abstracts. A clear bias against men came through. The icing on the cake was the decision by the APA that "Parental Alienation Syndrome" wouldn't be allowed into the DSM because it would have implications for family law and could be perceived as misogynistic. I then left therapy and never looked back. So yeah, I agree with HealthyGamer; therapy sucks for men and is politicized.
Me: M, 30s, Caucasian, Ex-Athlete & Soldier. Here is what Therapy did for me: 1) Helped me become emotionally aware. 2) Pointed me towards content like this which has helped three times more than the therapy itself. 3) Taught me that it's okay if this doesn't work for me, there's other ways to get well.
After escaping from an abusive relationship, the first therapist I tried talking to… she’d go in long lectures for 75% of our sessions, and repeat the following over and over again: -don’t go by looks because beauty fades :) -the women who keep hurting you? You don’t want them anyways! Stop going by looks (I… wasn’t 🙄), stop going for passionate women. Go after women you find plain :) give them a chance -so what if you get stepped on :) there’s nothing wrong with being a “beta male!” Just be kind and take pride in that Yeah…. She really didn’t understand me at all
@@olety exactly - I had severa male therapists - but they were much much older - and they only focused on “oh well, grow up, focus on career.” To which I’d say “look, I’m too depressed to sacrifice what little social life I have to go back to school again and work all the time.” To which they said “you need to stop making excuses. Grow up. You’re too old to have fun. You have PTSD from your ex girlfriend? Too bad, find a new woman to marry” Like bruh- won’t even let me process anything, much less help me in the right ways? 🙄
@@luiseneas Y’know what sounds like That’s a strong possibility. Plenty of therapists seem to use their sessions to either process their own shit, or to project their regrets into their clients
The "don't solve problems just sit and listen" is I think the main reason why a lot of men (myself included) don't like therapy. It feels like a waste of time, because I don't want to talk about emotions, that is of 0 use to me, I just want to figure out what to do about them
or is this just the problem itself? a lack of understanding of therapy, it’s success, and how it works i presume. If all a therapist does for their life is “just sit and listen” they are unethical and not fulfilling their duties properly.
Listening and asking probing questions is exactly why I like my therapist. He'll explain potential problems he hears as I talk and then ask me some question and allow me to go off on a tangent. It takes several sessions before I even get to the root of whatever problem it is I originally went to discuss. It's those tangents where I have the most breakthroughs. It puts me into a vulnerable position where I'm saying the first thing that comes to mind (something I do not typically do). As I say those things I come to certain realizations and end up "solving" my own problems. So my therapist is more like a sidekick while I solve my own problems. That works well for me, but it's important to find a therapist who works for you. It's exhausting, but well worth it when you find one you click with.
Yep, even a 13 when i first tried therapy i recognised this, because of my age i got a 12 week block of sessions and by week 8 or 9 i started to wonder "so when is the part where you actually give me advice on what to do". For the first few weeks i assumed id spend some time talking about my experiences and how i felt so they could get a grasp on me/my problem and then we could get to where do i go from here. Turns out it was just a whole lot of me telling them whats wrong and them giving me pity. If i wanted pity id go to my mother.
came across a therapist that actually helped me with my problems, who understood what I was going through and gave me solutions that actually improved my mental health, I'm glad I was lucky and I support anyone who genuinely seek and receive good help
I really appreciate this video! I'm a therapist about to take my licensing exam, and I've definitely noticed that with all men but especially the teen boys I work with that I'll make some progress with them but it always feels like there's a gap between us. It's interesting to see that not only does this video explain the cis men I see, but also the trans men I see have lots of these same ways of thinking and acting; which shows me more proof that it's about how we're socialized to think of how a man acts and that this struggle with articulating emotions isn't "just the way men are". I was raised and socialized as a girl, and still get mistaken for one often, so I often worry that men in my office think "You're just wanting me to talk about my feelings because you're a woman" or something else that makes them instinctively resistant because it feels like I'm trying to force my language onto them. Do you have any suggestions? I'm absolutely going to implement what you've suggested in here and look into normative male alexithymia, but I'm curious if you have more thoughts on this a few months after you put this video out.
Oh man... i've gone to couples therapy and without fail, 100% of the time i feel this underlying sense of bias in the entire ordeal. My partner is able to express herself emotionally and gets all this empathy but i usually don't get empathy. It's horrible.
I feel the opposite tbh. I'm the man and I'm able to express my feelings and explain concepts and I get most of the attention while the ex wife gets tips on breathing exercises because she can't handle the mental strain. I think individuals really benefit from self reflection and finding ways to communicate in healthy ways.
I had a very odd couples therapy experience. I've never been to any sort of therapy except for one time when my wife (who has been to therapists on an off for many years to work on various things) asked me to go with her to couples therapy. When I was younger I was pretty negative on therapy in general (Engineer - I like deterministic sciences and dealing with humans is way to... squishy. I've gotten a lot more open over the years since then) but I went in with an open mind and shared my perspective on our challenges (which seemed like pretty normal married couple issues to me). The therapist listened and gave us some 'homework' which I did my part of - but oddly it was my wife (who has FAR more emotional self-awareness than I have) who shut the work down. The therapist gave us concrete/physical things to do (which worked for me... a checklist/to do list) and while she could talk about them... she struggled to turn the talk into actions. She also started feeling like the therapist was just taking my side in everything... maybe like she EXPECTED to have the upper hand but her therapist was actually pretty careful to connect in ways that worked for me too. Anyway that ended pretty quickly because my wife got very defensive and I've not considered going to one solo until recently. Still not exactly sure where to even start though... definitely feels like trying to play baseball not knowing the rules. Cricket... that's what it feels like... because the rules have been explained to me many times but they don't make any kind of sense.
@rw5622 I haven't. I normally dominate conversations intellectually and cognitively. But I always feel like the therapist is taking my SO's side. From hearing this part of me thinks that it may just be unconscious prejudice. But I think more people are like he said and how Iam than your case. But I also wonder if there some other anomaly in your case
@@sparaz Therapy isn't about understanding your intellect, it is about your feelings and understanding yourself. The reason why there is a bias, isn't because of your gender, it is because you think you can intellectually explain things, that require emotions to understand. Therapy helps you understand the "why". You are approaching something irrational, like emotions, with rationality and often times, when men do this, it comes across as condescending, because we can feel as if emotions are something we are above and not something worth taking into consideration. If you told someone not to touch fire and they stubbornly keep ignoring your advice, you would lose sympathy for the person and invest in someone who listens to you, correct? That is why, those who look at things "intellectually", don't receive sympathy, because you are not trying to understand your and your partner's emotions. Just like how you would feel, if someone used "feelings over facts". I hope I have made sense.
@@sparaz "I normally dominate conversations intellectually and cognitively" leaves me with the impression that you are likely coming across as condescending. Remember who the expert is. You might also be railroading the conversation which could make you very hard to sympathise with.
"A feeling is a problem to be solved, not talked about" This has been the single largest communication barrier in every relationship I've ever been in. It seems obvious but I've never heard it put into a single concise comparison before.
I felt that too. I've actually outright said this in relationships before: I see emotions as something that slows me down and hinders me - a problem to be solved, not a problem to be discussed as discussion rarely leads to solutions whereas action rapidly leads to one. Even if less effective, it's more efficient. What I've come to realize since these discussions with my significant others is that therapy is a part of the action for a effective solution. The problem then becomes how to navigate the inherent biases present in the psychotheraphy field.
@HealthyGamerGG As a man, I feel you're detracting from broader socioeconomic and political factors through the lens of biological determinism, or biologism. Men are biologically different, and because of this, they're being treated unfairly. It says nothing about the pseudoscience and institutional corruption playbook at the heart of the psychopharmaceutical industrial complex; it's direct-to-consumer advertising and crony regulatory capture long since rallied against by W.H.O., the U.N., MIA advocates, and other professionals at odds with the mainstream of their profession. Your channel has spoken about incels and lonliness in men, but because lonliness is a social problem, it cannot be resolved one-on-one in a clinical context. Your channel does little except emphasize the technical regime of late neoliberal capitalism in an increasingly atomized and hyper-individualistic society. It's likely you've heard the reference to Robert Putnam's meta-analysis on isolation in Bowling Alone. It's become quite popular; it's about the decline of civic associations in America and the ensuing loss of social capital. These are broader trends across the West in general; the UK was recently ranked as the second-most miserable country in the world by the global happiness index. Indeed, how can people have any sense of commonality in a liberal democracy when everything must be delegated to technical experts-police, priests, owners, teachers, therapists, and so on-or to those who can employ the experts? The UK is also seeing an increase in polarization and distrust in politicians, which is capitalized on by the data economy of American Big Tech. In June 2021, the World Health Organization joined in calls by the United Nations with a 300-page document entitled "Guidance on Community Mental Health Services: Promoting Person-Centred and Rights-Based Approaches." The report emphasized social determinants of mental health such as violence, discrimination, poverty, exclusion, isolation, and unemployment. "Americans have been increasingly socialized to equate inattention, anger, anxiety, and immobilizing despair with a medical condition, and to seek medical treatment rather than political remedies. What better way to maintain the status quo than to view inattention, anger, anxiety, and depression as biochemical problems of those who are mentally ill rather than normal reactions to an increasingly authoritarian society?" -Bruce E. Levine, Ph.D.
I am exactly like that when the problem is uncomfortable feelings. I want to get free of them or deal with them as best as I can, not to "talk" or keep engaging in them.
I talked to a therapist for like a month and that's all i needed because i couldnt afford the $240/mo but she helped me realize what i was going through would have been stressful to anyone and there was nothing mentally wrong with me other than stress from the situation i was in. That was super-important to me to realize.
