i personally ride both, if i want to ride a simple ride then i take the analog bike with no worries about battery life and such. if i want to do a mountain trail with climbing and hours and hours of descending and ascending with lots of km to cover then i take the e bike because it makes the climbing part fun and easier and like Steve says it allows you to have options open to farther distances that you would never see or do or experience and do way more laps then a regular bike.
My XC trails have more rocks, roots and tech bits than the downhill parks we see in this channel. If I'm watching people like Sam Pilgrim or Matt Jones, I know to expect smooth trails and big jumps. But even they tackle proper mountain bike trails every now and then. Here, I see way too much bike park jumps, not enough techy trails.
@@jmo2752 Yep, that's probably it. But personally I like to watch content that I can relate to and learn from. Thus, I would like to see technical trail riding content.
I know me, if I had an e-bike my level of fitness would diminish quickly…that being said…I completely agree that most MTB videos are downhill bike park videos and have nothing to do with what mountain biking is to me.
Your fitness doesn't have to diminish if you don't want it to - you can select how much (if any) assistance you get with an eMTB... If you want more of a workout, just dial it back (and extend your range) - you only need to use 'Turbo' for the kind of climbs/hazards you couldn't make on a regular bike. What an eMTB does offer is the ability to ride further and up steeper terrain than you might be able to on a non-assisted bike, it doesn't have to be all about speed.
That's what many mountain bikers don't get. With an ebike you can put in the same effort as with a normal bike. The difference is elevation gain and/or distance and/or speed.
I ride XC with a group of older e-bikers. I’m still on an analog bike and have no intention of going to an E-bike. I actually enjoy the challenge of matching the pace of the group regardless of how gassed I get at times. I can still do a 12 mile XC ride without a break at 63. 😅
When you can do more laps in the same time using an e-bike to speed up the transport and uphill parts of the day - not riding, but going to the place you start riding i.e. the top - then you obviously get better value out of the day... do 6 laps instead of 3 or 4 before the posh burger and beer...
On a regular mtb uphill is a slog and the downhill is your reward, but with an emtb you find yourself looking at a technical uphill and thinking I wonder if I can get up that? The uphill is great fun and you still get the downhill reward. I love the challenge of a techy emtb climb... its got elements of trials riding and skill. That's more rewarding to me personally than fitness based goals of getting up an easy hill in a certain time or factors like heart rate etc.
Having both is great, because it stops you getting stale and it always reminds you how good each of them really are. It makes the MTB feel even lighter and more nimble but you appreciate the power and stability of the emtb more too.
I understand where Jonesy is coming from talking about bike parks as being separate from the roots of mountain biking, quite literally riding over roots in the woods. And while I understand his point and also agree with him I don't think you can look at it that way when you realize that even in the United States which is a vast amount of area I could very easily write out by hand a list of every single Bike Park but I couldn't even write out by hand every Trail area in the Northeast where I live because there's just too many. And while I understand that a lot of the videos that are put on the internet are taken at bike parks mainly because it's way easier to film in a contained environment most of us only get a couple of bike park days a year if we're lucky and the other 90% of our riding miles are in the woods. I think it's a case of the image of mountain biking not really matching its reality The same way that motoring shows will show you cars in beautiful locations friving at 10 10ths and yet most of those cars after their purchased in real life will never do any of those things
It sounds like e-bikes are just to cater for the new generation of people who are unfit and can't handle going up hill for more than 1km. It's nice that they allow older people or people with medical issues a bit more freedom. I'll buy one when I'm 50
Cool you go ahead and climb you little heart out and make sure you tell everyone how much of an Olympic athlete you are... and stay out of the bike parks! Don't want that "easy way out" to the top... of course.
And I'm a guy who used to have (and truly enjoyed) an eMTB but is back on a regular one again. What I love about a regular one is just the simplicity, my weird(?) fascination for pure mechanics (same for breaks and shifters - I love them mechanical), the weight distribution, no motor noise at all, and just the clean design. But I do understand the thrill of extra power. :)
Steve, I dont have anything against an E Bike, and i get your points. An E Bike is a tool that allows you to do the things you like to do. As with any biker, we have to consider our skill, endurance and type of riding, then pick a tool for the job. An E Biker needs less skill and endurance to get further away from the trail head. However the E Bike industry needs to stop using that a sales point!!! Skill, Fitness and Experience first!!! Then plan a trip and pick a tool for the job.If that tool is an E Bike, OK. It seems that many pick a tool (E Bike), buy a map and go completely unaware of the skill or experience needed on a long trail. That needs to change! The second point that e bikers need to learn is trail rules. On long hard, rooty and rocky climbs, dont ring at an "Analog" biker that is at his limit and trying to send a section of trail. Also, dont ignore 4 riders waiting to drop in and just go to the front and ride down the trail a a snails pace. E Bikes are the future and they are good development. Like Steve said, it allows guys with less fitness but good skill and experience to still get way out in nature. Thats a good thing, but please respect nature and others that choose a normal bike or choose to hike.
Having ridden emtb's a fiar number of times, i can say pretty definitively i have no interest in them. They're heavy and I don't like the way they ride. They're just not fun mountain bikes in my opinion. An ebike for a commuter bike seems great. But for MTB, i have absolutely zero interest.
I understand your view but e-mountain bikes have a specific purpose that suits many, many riders, including myself who have little interest in the confinements of the manufactured trails or giving myself a heart attack trying to climb to the tops of trails to end up being too knackered to ride down them again. I'm not anti-trail/bike park but I don't like being put through a high speed obstacle course or race to within an inch of my life down a track as it's just not my style. The people who want to test their limits of skill and face the risk of a nasty injury are entitled to carry on doing that but I just want to ride something that let's me enjoy the experience of riding the untamed landscape and to enjoy the view while doing it.
I don't ride an ebike but I think the biggest thing is that they bridge the fitness gap between the serious mountain bikers ( by serious I mean make the time and effort to train and ride lots) and the guys who love riding but don't get to as often. I do a lot of training and ride 3 times a week most weeks, several of my ebiker friends get to ride once a week or less and they want to have fun, not be absolutely cooked halfway on a ride
I’ve both. E-bike is fun but can get boring. Non assisted MTB can be more challenging in comparison and thus more rewarding. The e-bike has allowed me to progress quicker but it’ll never give me the same sense that “I” conquered the mountain. E-bike is like eating empty calories and analog is like eating a gourmet meal.
Love how E bikes are more of a workout but no one wants to do the same elevation and distance on the Analog as E bike because Analog is too hard 😂 Love how the industry spins this to sell e bikes
They are not more of a workout over the same distance and terrain (well unless you switch them off, then it's like pedalling a 50lb downhill rig) - the point is, because you're not killing yourself on the first big climb, you can ride further and for longer - so at the end of your respective rides you've used as much energy/burnt the same number of calories as each other - you've just ridden much further and climbed more elevation on the eMTB.
I'm 47 and perfectly fit. However, the ebike means we can do an epic ride all day in the peak District EVERY week. They still keep you extremely fit as you can just go faster, harder and steeper. They're not a cop out. I'm probably fitter now than when I had my last acoustic bike.
Great video this one! 👍 Fitness on MTB vs eMTB… The never ending discussion (aka flats vs clipless), my personal experience is that I ride more on eMTB and my fitness improved. I’m not fat & lazy nor olympic athlete, just average Joe with so many hours a week to ride. Very good and honest video!
Same. I can go hard for an hour and do 12 laps of my current favorite loop or just three. My fitness definitely improved after getting my eMTB last July simply because I went out and rode every chance I got. Which led to improving my skills faster. Which led to riding harder. Etc., etc. etc.
At the end of the day if you want a powered MTB then buy one! Having what is a motorised bicycle that's legal to ride on trails with pedal bikes is all they are..
They're all just bikes at the end of the day, just different components. I have the same respect for somebody that's out there enjoying the sport, however they do it, whatever bike or tech they are doing it on.
I remember my turning point when i went exploring a new hillside in the local area and i saw a lookout tower and the climb was steep and since i was on my fuel exe i managed to go up. i'd never have thought of doing that on my acoustic mtb. it opened up my mind for further exploration.
It's not limited to 28mph*, that is when the assistance stops - you can go as fast [downhill] as you could on any other bike. *note that a Class-1 pedal-assist bike (which is what the vast majority of manufacturers sell) has the assistance limited to 20mph in the US, and 15.5mph in the UK/EU - it's Class-3 bikes which are limited to 28mph you are talking about, and those are typically not allowed on bicycle trails, but are designed primarily to be the 'e' equivalent of a moped.
I'll ride an E-MTB when I'm too old or too injured to ride a regular bike. Now I'm 50 and had knee ops, but the regular MTB helps rehab and keeps me slim. If you're not overweight or don't smoke it seems a cop out to be making things so easy. Not hating, I think it's great that unfit people can get out and get a start. Just a bit of effort should be encouraged.
Ebikes are not for handicapped people who are not able to ride a "normal bike" anymore if you have skills and strength you can ride uphill on Ebikes on trails where normal bikes are capable to ride on downhill, and that's a fact.
@@nicolapellegrino1072 Cope is strong with this one. There's no shame in riding a motorbike. But call it a motorbike, not a bicycle. Stop pretending like you're cycling, you're using an engine to power your bike.
By this logic mx/enduro should be a piece of cake because you don't even need to pedal. I've found you need to be extremely fit to ride one well, same with an ebike
Maybe not their legs as much because on the climbs, but they work way harder going down on a 50+lbs emtb. Upper body and core gets a huge work out compared to a ~30lbs trail bike.
And haters really want to convince everyone they are special because they like to slog up a climb. Special little snowflakes that want us to believe they are world class athletes.
I really think e-bikes are great.Just not for me, because they limit the most important aspect of mountain biking - freedom. What is a mountain bike good for if I can't just hop onto it and ride. The same actually goes for electric derailleurs and dropper posts. I want my bike as analogue as possible.
Steve says young riders think of trail centres as the go to for MTBs, whereas emtbs let you get out to the proper wilds.... So in other words Steve is saying the exact same thing.... Eg. To ride the proper natural trails you need an emtb. I'm 56yrs old and ride proper natural mountain trails on a HT and a FS MTB, emtbs have a limited range due to the battery... So in actual fact (fitness allowing) an MTB lets you do more miles than an emtb on natural trails and experience a true epic MTB ride.
I've been riding mountain bikes since the late 80s and getting out in the wild is the best thing. I now ride an ebike and it's opened my riding up even more . I love that I can use less energy climbing which saves more energy for the downhill
It depends what you want out of your bike, I like the fitness I get from a normal bike, I need the excercise. Not keen on e-bikes as they make going up better but I feel going down feels worse on an ebike, and thats the bit Im there for. Following ebikes I have to slow down in wierd places as they have to account for more weight and momentum, great at riding up, but not as good at riding down. Although the SL bikes are feeling more like a normal bike, they are mmore tempting but I can fix everything on my bike myself, I cant on an ebike. The best thing about e-bikes is you can get to places I wouldnt bother on a normal bike, cwmcarn for example those loops are great on an e-bike too much for my little legs normally. Still think the negatives outweight the positives for me and thats disregarding price...
You can adjust your power level and/or put the same amount of effort into pedaling an e-bike except your result is just more speed from it. Don't see the problem there. You're hitting everything faster (jumps, over roots, rocks, etc) so your upper body is getting more of a workout too.
I have been riding a regular enduro bike for quite a while and just recently switched to a emtb. Its scary to see how dumb some people are here, thinking you cant get a good workout from an emtb. Certainly it depends on who and how you ride it, but for me where i live where the ”mountains” are quite steep, i get exhausted after maybe 2 or 3 climbs = 1,5-2 hours riding a regular bike. Now i get 10+ climbs and at least twice as much riding time, my heart rate is up and im exhausted by the end of the ride. Its like saying long distace runners are lazy compared to sprinters.
Yes, this is the main difference... most people who criticise eMTBs are coming at it from a point of ignorance, or fail to consider where [other] people are riding... Sure, if you live in the UK where typically you only ever have few hundred feet of elevation change, then if you're fit, a regular bike is usually fine - for typically a couple of hours riding at least... But equally if you're surround by 2000+ft climbs just to get to the top of the downhills, then you'll soon appreciate the benefit of having some 'e' to assist you up those actual mountains.
Less is not more in this case. 3x more fun 3x more speed 3x more elev. etc.What very few people mention is, that you get a full body workout tossing around an 23 kg bike and lets face it, a lot of mtb-ers are pu..ys and not muscular or masculine at all. You can get out an do big things on an emtb what would be impossible on an analog...
I agree with Steve. I stared riding on the welsh hills before trail centres and find them a bit “boutique”. They do provide a great facility to practice skills though.
Theres pros and cons for both imo. I love my acoustic for park and shuttled rides. The lighter weight just makes things much more enjoyable. I also love how fit i get when i ride my acoustic. The ebike is fun for group rides, riding a trail multiple times and stuff.
I agree with Steve to a large degree. In my experience, even MTB parks do not offer a harmonious experience on an acoustic bike. Like a grueling XC climb for 45 min to do a high-stakes jump line back to the bottom. Long suspension, slack bike, wearing protective gear is just an abysmally miserable experience on the way up. Once you reach the top, your body is all out of wack because the muscles used for the climb are not the same group used for descent; you feel drained and exhausted but the body parts you must now engage at 100% are stiff and cold. No matter! You only risk serious injury or death... Dropping! Some parks are better than others. And carrying extra 20lbs on the jump line isn't ideal. But eMTB do fix many obvious problems with this hobby
I've only ever ridden hardtail analogue bikes. Been riding regularly as an adult for around 18 years (I'm 36) and I've decided to take the plunge on an Ebike. Can't see a drawback - first experience of full suspension, carbon frame, high quality components, easier everyday commuting use AND I don't have to be in great shape all year round to enjoy it. Fitness has never been part of why I ride my bike, these days I don't ride in the middle of Winter in the UK as it's a truly miserable experience, so my use is from March through to October. Each year it takes a little longer to get back in shape in Spring and it really diminishes my enjoyment. I don't subscribe to the point of view that says Ebikes are for old farts who can't do what they used to be able to, nor do I believe they're a cop-out for less skilled riders. They look like a great fun and totally different experience to what I've become used to, and how can that be a bad thing?
I remember when Jonesy was a Dirt mag editor, those were the real days of MTB!! The 1.23 track, with Hill for example, epic! When Jonesy was hardcore, not old soft and bitter!🤣 E-Biking just means you are getting old Jonesy, just FACT..Dont worry I want one, but I will still have my steel hardtail and I'm in my 50s! Steel will always be real mate! What annoys me about e-bikes, is like digger built trails it opened up access to people without skills to ride such trails! I regularly see riders crash or take out other riders on pleb trails that a kid dropping training wheel for the first time could ride! As someone who has guided riders and wants to see the sport grow, properly, its not about the most expensive rig, or just e bikes vs steam bike or having one or the other, its about skill training, trail awareness, trail etiquette, almost a forgotten subject in society as more and more entitled people especially on E-Bikes increases! Its about basic skills , fitness to grade + distance of trail, trail awareness, rider awareness, just because the bike can do the trail and can power the distance, doesn't meant the rider can! E-Bikers don't take responsibility for themselves or the bikes they are on! Not all but most. This is the same problem exaggerated 10 fold from the venerable hardtail to really good full suspension bikes that started to enter the mass market by the late 2000s by OEMS, then add the 27.5 and 29er it created even more dumbed down riders with a lower skill level, but faster bike capability and more trail access beyond the skills, these didn't get better, the bikes did. E-Bikes have taken that to a new level! 100 fold. Maybe e-Bikes should have a chip that can recognize skills and cant be unlocked, just like online game, where you have to reach certain levels of competency before certain kWs can be reached! Like the hardtail could without any tech! Natural selection and nature sorted out the plebs from good riders and pros on a hardtail. Now we have opened Pandora's box and apart from a smart chip, because humans are more stupid that ever, there is no closing the lid. My POV and experience with both sides!
I just can't afford to spend the bags needed for a decent EMTB, I generally buy used in the £750-£1500 range, currently on a Whyte s120 CR. I do get a bit jelly though walking up a climb and the EMTB crew go sailing by up the hill, I can see the appeal.
E bikes rule ! And not your store rip off prices ! Mine $12,000 ! Fix all myself got all the tools PARK don't need shill shops ! 61 clicks mid drive better than anything a shop can produce ! All about the buck !!!!
The issue about e-bikes is that people are naturally lazy and greedy at the same time : - lazy so once you try an e bike, you’ll be using it even though you’ll be perfectly fine using a normal mtb. If you do, then you’re polluting for no reason. -greedy, so now you won’t only do your normal mtb tour you would do on your regular bike, now you would do it 2 or 3 times. Ultimately overcrowding the trails and get us kick out of natural trails. Then we will indeed all ride only in bike parks… So yeah e-bikes are supposed to be great for my dad that do not have the fitness anymore to ride with me in the French alps. But I fear it’ll will ruin everything, just for our greed for « free » downhills on a MTB.
I have to agree with the comment about hardpack / paved surfaces - it's much more BMX than mountain side - and for a good portion of probably all mountain bikers this IS mountain biking. I've overheard some people describing some such sections as 'boring', but to them I'd say get out on the wild bridleways and moors instead, stop wasting time on the 'boring' paved trails. There's a reason I don't ride the majority of the black sections (and then complain that they're too rocky). People should ride what's fun and challenging for them and the bike they ride. At my local trails I'm generally of the opinion that the XC-style red is not really a challenge for modern eMTBs for the average strong rider, and it almost feels like they could be an adult riding a kid's skill area 'just because they can do it faster'.
I personally don't love MTBs, I'm not a bike park guy, he said something I love which is cultures trails and only blacks get rough but they get insane. We have lost some of the best bits of biking so I rarely ride a bike park now as they have zero what I enjoy riding.
You make a very good point about preferring to pedal up than using a van uplift. The time to pedal up on a non assist does eat up downhill time for sure. So I see pedal assist as the ultimate winch and plummet machine.
Ebike in eco -2 is v similar to a pedal bike. Ride that for 2hours. Then when faced with a giant hill, turbooooooo 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻 then downhill time. And repeat.
Im quite yoing (almost in mid 40) but working as construction carpenter for 20 years most of it abroad so long hours each day in various climates and whether i do feel that in 2-3 years i will need an emtb bike also i do wait for manufacturers to decide in general for one charging standard.
2.54 I watched an old ebike video of Steve and a Girl from Specialized on her SL to His full powered emtb the other day of this bit of hill climbing it didn't go well for the light weight motor with heavier person
I agree that mtb is becoming very bmx in sime areas now with mtb seemingly being made for bmx tracks tather than exploring off road rides. As much as i love to see the skill of these riders there was once a film made called "bmx bandits" same stufff more or less.
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You still get a burn... You're just riding up gnarlier stuff instead of walking it.. Watch guys try and do the power stages in the E-EDR they are gassed by the time they get to the top lol.
Keep your own engine running as long as you can. in your old age you'll be glad of it. You don't need the lithium to have fun on a bike. The planet doesn't need degradable e-power where it's non-essential.
I totally agree that MTB should be mainly on rough natural trails. I visited my first bike park last week. It didn't seem like anything but BMXing. It seems like good training and fun if you like tricks, but should be considered a totally different discipline or a very distant sub genre of mountain biking. This chap was right that kids are growing up with no concept of actual mountains being involved in MTB. However, that doesn't mean that physically fit people have an excuse to ride with a motor. Wait until you're old I think.
Yeah, too many of the MTB media concentrate solely on Bike Parks and only doing tricks, sending it, etc A day out riding in the trails/ hills, riding what basically is XC, seems to have gone out of fashion......
If i'm at a bike park , I'm on my MTB, if I go ride the local trails and the climbs are not too bad, I'm on my MTB, if the climbs are bad, I'm probably on my E-MTB, and instead of getting one climb and one ride down, I get 3, probably amounting to the same workout put in, but amounting to triple the fun.
@@exorder2005 yes, this is the crux of the whole ‘argument’... The binary nature of social media comments encourages everyone to pick a side, and can only ever have one bike at a time - when practically speaking, most [enthusiastic] mountain-bikers already have more than one bike anyway... So instead of spending all your money on one 'super bike', why not split that between an eMTB and a regular MTB, and give yourself the choice as conditions dictate?
@@jmo2752 agreed, I have a Canyon Spectral AL 6, which I got on sale for 2500 Euros, and my next purchase was an YT Decoy MX Core 1 E-MTB which was on sale for 3.7k, haven't changed a thing on them, you don't need the high end stuff unless you're riding like the pros and pushing 20 foot jumps
Climbing is so dull, boring and slow on a regular MTB, but an Ebike still allows you to do all of what you can on a regular bike, only youre flying to the top of the hill. And if people think you cant get a sweat on with an ebike, clearly not rode one properly.
I think people who don’t like climbing actually don’t like trail riding and should just go to gravity parks instead of trying to make trail riding a gravity park with an e-bike
I'm 61 mtb since '89 .... I'm struggling to go full suss! But kudos to those folk with disabilities and infirmity who utilise the tech to keep in the saddle ..like Steve Jones ...bless.
I agree with steve, why struggle to go up hill. Ebikes makes the up and down hills more fun EMTB also allows people that mite struggle to keep up with there mates on MTB’s then everyone is having the same amount of fun
i have the feeling gmbn is pushing everyone on an emtb these days. Everything needs to be "fun" and "exciting" but with as less effort as possible. come on, put a little effort in. I'm 50 and ride mtb marathons between 100 - 180 km. i dare you to follow me on a emtb on that distance on a single battery (i don't carry a spare battery either 🙂) e-mtb should be on prescribtion only 🙂
100% with Steve on this one! I've rode mtb for past 30 years this year I took the dive and got an emtb with Gen 4 bosch fair to say my mtb won't be used again, unless start doing DH again but getting to old for that I'm nearly 40 so that's a no for DH nowadays won't go back to smashing bones they won't heal as quick now haha
I have both, I prefer normal bikes for fun and ebikes for long rides, and sure when time is of the essence the ebike is better, but sluggish and heavy, I am not a tall or heavy rider so maybe a light ebike might be better suited for me. I ride Enduro downhill and occasionally trials.
Definitely a thought Iv had by that all the bike parks are great but man made and the adventure of epic trails is just a a good but what mountain biking is all about!
I have 2 emtb’s (yt decoy, husqvarna ) and a regular analog specialized stumpy. I just love my emtb’s for quick rides after work (don’t have much energy left). But also like the analog bike when with my kids, as we need to ride slower. Definitely agree with Steve, riding up steep sections that are almost impossible is great fun, but the light and lively analog is fun going downhill… just not up 😂
I ride both, but have sold my emtb because it was not as much fun for me as the mtb. I think Steve addresses this in his latest video, but where I see the divergence in this video is the lack of climb trails that are being built in Mountain biking. When a climb is interesting regardless of power type, mountain biking becomes more enjoyable, but we have become so focused on just getting up quickly that we (as a community) have stopped building good climb trails that make getting back to the top interesting.
Last week I’ve been riding in a trail center and 90% of the people were on e-bikes. If I would only consider the adult it would even be more. I literally was the only adult on a regular hardtail. My take away from that day: Riding e-bikes on the trail and smoking in the car park got me smh. (Not a e-bike hater at all)
It's just matter of correct bike for the application. Where application is type of riding you enjoy combined with your fitness/strength. XC bike is not much fun on DH track and DH bike is not much fun on XC loop. I wouldn't bother with the range of gears I have on my bike and dropper post if I had the fitness/stregth to dance the uphills out of the saddle. If motor makes it more fun for you go for it. I don't have any emotinal attachment to the term "mountain biking", but if we're going to limit it to natural surfaces, we better come up with some more practical name for "BMXing on mountain bikes" because that rolls out of the tongue about as good as model name of average Ibanez guitar.
I’m 51 and just recently got an e bike. I still have a hard tail and a full suspension fuel ex5. Recently I went out with my 15 year old son and a friend of mine who’s in his mid 30’s. I was able to keep up with both of them and not be completely exhausted.
