Why We Can't Think Biblically About It: Women In Ministry part 1

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For years I've refused to answer the question about women in ministry. Because I worried I might be wrong and was fearful of how big of an impact my teaching can have in the life of another. I take that issue very seriously.
I spent the last few months doing an in depth research project on women in ministry. My goal was to read the best egalitarian scholars on the topic and see if I might change my position. To be totally open with you, I actually WANTED to become egalitarian. That may sound strange to some but I'm just being honest about my own motivations. Now that my research is close to done, I'm going to present you with the "Women in Ministry" series; a thorough and systematic study of the topic, looking at all relevant biblical passages, historical research, linguistic studies and philosophical concerns, interacting with the most recent scholarship on the issue (and there is a lot of it). This will be a somewhat exhaustive series to go over everything the Bible teaches on the topic and engage in all the important debates you will want to know about. Each video will cover different issues/passages of Scripture and I'll try to present the content in a way that helps you make informed decisions for yourself and not just to parrot me.
But I'm not interested being one of those people who pretends they don't have their own opinions on the topic. So, after months of focused research, here are my general conclusions; which I will go on to support with great detail over the next 10 videos. I think egalitarian views (which hold there are simply no role differences related to authority between men and women in the government of the church) are obviously false. I mean that I went into this study hoping I'd see really strong and thoughtful cases for egalitarian views from top scholars and I saw, over and over again, insufficient evidence, poor reasoning, inconsistent positions and bad Bible study practices. I don't say ANY of that as a way of slapping at the sincerity or good will of those scholars. I think many of these scholars are strongly committed to Jesus and are my genuine brothers and sisters in Christ. But, as a result of studying this topic in detail, hoping to change my own mind and focusing on the work of egalitarian scholars, I am actually far more confidently complementarian than I was before.
However, I have changed my mind on some important issues and would consider my self a "soft complementarian" who holds that the biblical role of "elder" is reserved for men but that women have been FAR too restricted in other ways because of clumsy and incomplete views of complementarians, and sometimes simply because Christians aren't quite sure where to draw the lines so they are overly cautious and unnecessarily limiting to women (and often to themselves). What I'm saying here is that I agree with many egalitarian complaints about abuses, restrictions and general disrespect toward women that has been too common in complementarian circles. I've seen it first hand many times and I think Scripture offers us needed correction.
So, I am rather firm in saying egalitarian interpretations are generally flawed but that complementarians have much to refine and even remove from their own views, though the biblical core remains quite sound. I offer the above explanation as I introduce this series simply because I respect your intelligence and want to be as open as possible with you all.
In today's video I'll walk through the biggest reason why I'm not egalitarian as I discuss philosophical beliefs that egalitarians often bring into the debate which make it impossible for them to be open to following the Bible if it leads toward complementarian views. I'll try to apply this standard fairly on both sides and set a tone for the debate that refuses to use polemics, ethics or philosophy in a way that taints our opinions before we approach the biblical text and ask "what should I think about this?"
Here's the playlist for ALL the videos in this series (more added as I make them) • Why We Can't Think Bib...
You can also find the videos and my notes freely available on my website. BibleThinker.org

Опубликовано:

11 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 5 тыс.

@MikeWinger 2 года назад

Dr. Groothuis is pronounced “Growt-hice” (I think) I’m sorry I got it wrong!

@luclockhart3503 2 года назад

We forgive you mike

@BrandonEsparza04 2 года назад

I would also love your perspective on the passage about men and women prophesying in the end times. This verse is used in my church as a supporting verse for women in ministry. Hopefully you will cover it!

@elitabilities8269 2 года назад

I was baptized as I knew that Jesus Christ forgives all my sins but at that time was living in sin but wanted to get out of it and many months later by the power of Holy Spirit I was out of it also I thought that in God there will be no problems in my life but after growing in Christ I found that there will be problems in my life but Holy Spirit will guide me and help me . So my question is that shall I be rebaptised due to sin at that time and incomplete theology ?

@dr.k.t.varughese3151 2 года назад

@@elitabilities8269 If you are not baptized by a holy disciple of Christ you will be partaking in the sins and wrongdoings of the Pastor in twice the measure. Hence, check the man who baptize you for: is his spirit from God ? Does he continue in the word of Jesus according to John 8:31? Is his righteousness above that of Pharisees and scribes according to Mathew 5:19?Is he recognized by Jesus as His trained disciple according to John 17:16?

@wolraad 2 года назад

Groothuis - in Afrikaans, or Dutch, would be Bighouse, or Greathouse. Phonetically I don't think you should worry too much since it would be like asking an English speaker to pronounce French surnames absolutely correctly every time. Groot - as in the now famous "I am Groot" from the marvel movies, or a tree root, would have been fine, and Huis - phonetically - like army "base" but with the "h" - so Groothase and you are there. Either way - great job!

@alisachilders 2 года назад

Great work, Mike! Really looking forward to listening to the rest of the series.

@richardgordon-smith239 2 года назад

Hey Alisa, nice to hear Mike's respect for you and your ministry. I am very blessed by your content. Please keep going!!! Love in Christ!

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

I recently posted this to Mike but haven't received a response yet - you might be interested: Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you'll fall short if you don't first address a major problem at the start of this series. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting wives to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, the contradictions between those verses and the rest of the bible are instantly resolved. All that remains is to properly exegete a few tangential verses that have been twisted and/or misinterpreted to prop up this faulty doctrine which subjugates and silences half the members of the Body of Christ and causes such damage to the church and to many innocent people who are simply trying to obey God's call on their lives.

@jennysims1910 2 года назад

Me too

@JohnMackeyIII 2 года назад

WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH.... NO ONE I MEAN NO COULD TOUCH THE ARK... EVERYONE WHO TOUCHED IT DIED..

@jeffreyyoungblood7438 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 absolutely, as well a female apostle is mentioned in the NT long with women prophesying, teaching a man, and let's not forget Deborah led the whole nation of Israel!

@dahelmang 2 года назад

This sort of series is why I trust Mike so much. He is not afraid to change his mind to agree with Scripture. That is where we all should try to be.

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Год назад

he still thinks the sun doesn't go around the earth

@yury2749 Год назад

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr see yourself as the center, and all moves around you. Saying this moves around that is kind of absurd. Everything goes around everything. And the math works out the same, just more complex, depending.

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Год назад

@@yury2749 And there it is. The philosophy of why you don't want the earth at the center. It's not humble enough. Nevermind that it's the truth! We must avoid it at all costs, philosophically. Edwin Hubble agrees! No matter how convoluted, never allow the earth to be at the center. That implies a God after all.

@yury2749 Год назад

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr what is at the center is a matter of perspective. I am not sure I follow your meaning exactly. But we are putting grammar onto entities that follow something far higher and more tangible than physics equations. I am at the center, but I do my best to orbit christ.

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Год назад

@Thomas B It's true, I think I saw a quote by Einstein that it would be equally correct to say the sun goes around the earth as the earth goes around the sun. It's basically like they're admitting it. Even in their convoluted theories, the sun can still be going around the earth! And it is.

@Meg_219 8 месяцев назад

Pastor Mike, as a Christian woman who has very much struggled with these issues (wanting to be egalitarian as well) I can’t tell you how incredibly thankful I am for your voice presenting a loving, thorough, Bible-centered, nuanced approach to these issues. This series is SO helpful and I know it’s not the popular subject to tackle but it has really helped me understand these issues for myself. Thank you!!!

@matthewdyer2926 4 месяца назад

The Bible isn’t nuanced in this issue; it’s clear, plain, and understandable. The “nuance” comes out when people don’t like what God says on a given subject.

@susanbarackman-artist7670 3 месяца назад

Have you ever been to a site called Tru 3:16-the Eden Podcast. It trues up the scriptures from Gen 3:16 and gives lots of correct info about the genders and what God truly meant for men and women to be. very enlightening and eye opening.

@Meg_219 3 месяца назад

@@matthewdyer2926 Are you disagreeing with the approach Mike Winger has taken on this issue? I used the word “nuanced” to describe his methodological approach of examining all sides and carefully pointing back to scripture. I didn’t use the word “nuance” to describe the Biblical teaching itself. I’m not sure if you understood my comment.

@matthewdyer2926 3 месяца назад

@@Meg_219 You may be right; I could have misunderstood. The word “nuance” has somewhat recently become the mantra of the evangelical Left, being referenced whenever any plain Biblical truth comes into conflict with the zeitgeist and needs to be explained away. Most hot-button Biblical issues today aren’t all that nuanced; nuance is merely injected in order to muddy the clear waters and shift opinions away from Biblical clarity, toward popular opinion. Egalitarianism versus Biblical patriarchy is one of the issues which often receives this treatment. If you didn’t mean it in this way, then I retract my statement.

@Meg_219 3 месяца назад

@@matthewdyer2926 Thank you. I appreciate that- that’s not what I meant. I am not on the evangelical left, nor am I a progressive Christian, nor am I even egalitarian (though I admit I used to *want to be). I just think it’s important for us as Christians to still be careful about labeling people based on their use of a word (like “nuanced”) before asking more specific questions about what they meant. As a pretty theologically conservative Christian, I’m sure I would agree with you on many things the Bible is very clear about and I agree that progressive Christians will try to add nuance where there is none, but I do think there is value in taking an approach that seeks to accurately represent the other side (as Mike Winger does) and then pointing back to scripture. As we grow more and more polarized and “us vs them” in our culture, this approach seems to happening less and less, so I’m thankful that Winger tries to bridge that gap by being gracious to each “side” of an issue while still boldly defending Biblical truth.

@WholeBibleWithGeorgeCrabb Год назад

It's not even about complementarian versus egalitarian views. It is about What God Says through his word. Excellent teaching! I recommended the rest of our elder board to watch this series.

@user-iz8np3vv4i Год назад

Deborah, Judges 4.

@user-fqobttl Год назад

What about when the women know what's in The Word, and the men, not only, do not know The Word, but have given themselves over to passions and demons. Can women gather wheat on the Sabbath, or not? This is not rhetorical; I am really asking your opinion.

@metapolitikgedanken612 Год назад

Who was the first 'egalitarian'?

@rockmusicvideoreviewer896 7 месяцев назад

How can you guys believe in this book written by cavemen? There is no more proof that god exist than Zeus or Santa Clause. Time to grow up and use your brain

@elizabethpole2305 6 месяцев назад

Equal but different has never worked. Society will end up valuing one set of skills over the ever. Jesus in his ministry had many women included in all roles

@mimhahn 2 года назад

Can't put into words how refreshing it is to hear a pastor that doesn't submit to culture. I know it's certainly not the easy road! Thank you. 🙏

@jumperstartful 2 года назад

Does the Bible teach that the present culture’s belief overturn the word of God? The majority of the Roman Catholic Churches beliefs are based on tradition and not the word of God. What sparked Luther’s reformation?

@odio3965 2 года назад

Two things to remember: only dead fish swim with the current, and the only direction all the easy paths lead is down.

@mchevalier-seawell4438 2 года назад

Look deeper into translation choices of words. And, no,being a second class citizen is not ok. I don’t believe Paul believed it, but the translators who worshipped at Aristotle’s feet did. Translators can really put a spin on things and so can taking things out of context. God did not make women second class, men did that. Like the word “ helpmeet” in Genesis translated “ally” when discussing King Hiram, King. David’s friend. Why isn’t he a little helpmeet? You were wrong about blacks and slavery and you are wrong about this too. I will join no church rather than be a member of yours.

@Matthew.._ Год назад

@@jumperstartful the comment was that culture is not the final word. Me must conform our ways, and our views to truth ( Gods wisdom ). The Catholic Church was not and still in many ways IS not in truth. Reformation came from a biblical and true analysis of the word of God.

@BibleU777 Год назад

Culture for almost all history has been very restrictive of women. To avoid "bowing to culture" one must abandon this entitlement mentality for males. God is no respecter of persons, and judges by the heart rather than the flesh.

@Sirkento 2 года назад

"This video series is for people who want to submit to God, so that's the price of entry." Such a beautiful statement! Come seeking God not justification for your veiws. Sooooo good!! I'm mostly complementarian but I am here to learn and grow and unafraid to follow the truth the best I can. Both sides can do this, it is just a simple decision of your heart to trust God more than yourself. Thank you Pastor Mike!!

@glennbaker7914 2 года назад

Ah there is the rub, self - justification we are often very good at it, and it gives us a warm feeling to be right.

@Sirkento 2 года назад

@@glennbaker7914 what does that mean lol?

@jaspermartin7444 2 года назад

Control freaks always say that ... And it's not god who keeps wanting to make a hierarchy of humans. That would be men, who want to be on top while women are on the bottom. Anytime you see anyone telling women they need to sit down and shut up while the men are not, that is from the devil. Repent now, cos you gonna burn. The problem is, there's only bible. Yet so many different churches have a billion different interpretations and they're all claiming they alone have the One True Voice of God in their ear. If all of you can't come to an agreement, then... something is wrong with "christians".

@iMidnightStorm 2 года назад

@@Sirkento It means that it only feels true to you, because you want it to be true. Humans are very much subject to bias, and not everyone has the same experiences as you.

@Sirkento 2 года назад

@@iMidnightStorm so by that logic you are basically saying there is no empirical truth and no point in striving towards it. That doesn't make any logical sense so this sounds more like an attempt to evade a knowledge of the truth, which everyone has the right to do with their life. But unfortunately it will not change the empirical truth and at some point everyone will have to decide what they want to believe and who they want to follow. There is a lot of Truth to the idea that we were very good at self-justification and invent ideas via bias but it does not exclude us from attempting to follow the ideals set before us nor do our biases in any way affect empirical truths. The point of what I was saying is God is out there and he loves us and he wants us to genuinely follow him but it is up to the discipline and humility of each person individually to decide to try to follow what he says and not just follow the things that sound good and make them feel good. If you don't already have a relationship with Jesus you should hit him up; there is literally nothing else that you were made better to do in all of creation and there is nothing that can ever adequately replace your need to have an eternal relationship with our creator. As a final note I don't care how bad you've been, what you've done wrong in secret that no one is found out about oh, what you have thought about or how badly you may look at yourself; you will never be too far gone to turn around and embrace your savior and accept his forgiveness except after the end of your life.

@cryptojihadi265 Год назад

"There is a large debate among scholars" I've always said it takes at least a masters, if not a PHD to figure out how to get the Bible to mean the exact opposite of what it actually says.

@erinsymone1645 Год назад

yep. it's fascinating how many "scholars" and debate it takes to understand god's "perfect" word. almost like it's just a bunch of word salad that you have to push through mental gymnastics to get it to say what you want it to say.

@donovanloreman Год назад

I have a history of putting "scholars" (biblical and not) in their place with facts. It seems we have gotten away with critical thinking in school and just straight indoctrination of the teacher believes.

@Shakiahjprod Год назад

No there's debate because people who study it to the point of the history and context starts to take place. Or the context within language. And you and I having not studied that never had to look beyond that, same way people back in the day didn't have an education and you had to trust your pastor OR go learn... Crazy ik

@cryptojihadi265 Год назад

@@Shakiahjprod except Paul makes it very clear it has to do with the creative order and the inherent weakness in the nature of man or woman. So those arguments are independent of culture and the times. But yes, culture and societal norms of the time is the argument they like to use, which is completely inappropriate in the actual context of what was written. The complete disaster we are witnessing in society and the church as we've accepted the feminist ideology of our times is proof of the validity of the text and the dishonesty of their "intellectual" arguments. But like l said, they have to use such dishonest arguments to make the Biblical text to mean the opposite of what it actually says.

@jacobroel Год назад

I laugh because it's true 🤣

@MicheMoffatt Год назад

I am a complimentarion evangelical Christian, and I feel the bible clearly states that men and women have different roles - I am glad that you are discussing all info available and keeping it scripture based. I feel that those who are liberal egalitarian are too easily swayed to then become "progressive" Christians that are not scripture based,. I am looking forward to all of this series. I loved the whole head covering video x

@qesther1241 10 месяцев назад

Why women can’t be a head pastor and teach men? Because men won’t listen or hear anything they say. GOD knows men are animals and no matter what that woman wears while she is speaking men will always be thinking of se$ regarding her. Her hair, her dress, her eyes, her lips, men will see all of that and not even remember what that woman was saying. 😂 it’s just life and humans.

@chevy4x466 10 месяцев назад

I would like to know what Paul meant in head covering as well

@paullaymon5746 9 месяцев назад

Egalitarianism is not a liberal view. It has been in practice since the early to mid 1800”s since the second great awakening in American history. Charles G. Finley could not by any stretch be called a liberal.

@Faith_and_Thought 9 месяцев назад

The languages used is certainly very post-modernist sounding, especially when it comes to the topic of abuse. Lived experience is king, and any power structure/hierarchy is a system of oppression. I'm interested to see what some of their other arguments are and why Mike takes a "soft-complementarian stance," and not, I suppose "fully complementarian," but so far the egalitarian view appears to be more inspired by left-wing ideologies than biblical theology.

@branver1172 9 месяцев назад

@@Faith_and_Thought I agree about egalitarianism and postmodernism, but I also see the thick comps as being influenced by these things. Sure, Comps give the power more firmly to the man, but they also see gender as two monolithic identity groups who interact largely through power dynamics. This is straight out of critical theory. You’ll also see many comps saying something is true because they * felt* it was true. Piper is a pro at this, but others do it too. As far as felt experience goes, many ladies find they are laughed at, mocked and ignored if they say they’ve been abused. Many conservative men see this as a “feminist tactic” and refuse to listen. Many men believe all ladies are controlling and out to usurp authority and therefore should not be believed. They also feel the abused woman is “proving” feminism right, and they must sweep her experience under the rug and shut her up. It’s all about winning the culture war. As Kevin DeYoung put it, “Ladies stop talking about abuse. You’re making the feminists win!” Many of these ladies are only heard and helped by others who have also been abused. I think this is why they talk about lived experience. Doesn’t mean truth is subjective, like the postmoderns mean. Just that we can often be self centered and not hear the other person.

@justinharrell327 2 года назад

"You cannot bypass the Bible." - That's the takeaway for me. I find in most issues where there is debate, people are doing just that....bypassing the Bible and appealing to some other authority.

@andrewbradley3305 2 года назад

I wonder if these "Egalitarians" (funny term for saying my ideas are better then Gds) have ever read Titus or if they just skip that epistle. Paul clearly outlines the requirements for leadership

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

I just posted this to Mike yesterday, and you might be interested : Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you fell short, not by any failure on your part, but you were sabotaged. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting women to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, all the contradictions with the rest of the scriptures are instantly resolved and one indication that it's indeed biblically correct is that both sides, complementarians and egalitarians alike, aren't totally happy with the results.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@miikatmp5873The mistranslated verses I cited are the very backbone of those who argue against women in ministry and leadership roles and if he didn't mention the error in this first video, you can be certain they won't be mentioned in the other 9 - most likely he's completely unaware of it. And what "paradox" are you referring to?

@mysonsmom9754 2 года назад

@@miikatmp5873 I reported Joan. I'm tired of seeing her/his post on every single thread as if that opinion is canonized text!

@robertgomez7409 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 that was a fair take, interesting. Everyone bashing you, please forgive them.

@musanetesakupwanya1050 2 года назад

Man, that whole "bypassing the Bible" concept, by itself has challenged me so much!!! WOW!! This really helps think about this topic in a more measured way, cos it instantly picks out where our sources come from.

@sh20130 2 года назад

Yes this I agree with! I see this a lot with some peoples opinions on how/whether the Holy Spirit works today and some views clearly bypass the Bible and it’s sad. I pray God helps us see the right way!

@darrenwithers3628 2 года назад

We shouldn't bypass the bible.. we should support slavery and mass genocide.

@makaylasauls3671 Год назад

Thank you so much! This series is so refreshing! I've grown up around people who have shamed me for not understanding this content, so having someone take the time to go through and answer all of these questions is amazing!

@rebeccawilkinson1846 Год назад

11:08 I’ve put off listening to this series partly because I wasn’t sure I was ready to hear a long discussion about what I can and cannot do. I grew up complementatian and still hold those views but life has presented challenges to the simplistic form that I was taught. Every question (plus a couple) in the first ten minutes describes my adult life. Thank you for understanding the heart of the question and for your attitude in approaching it. I look forward to reaping the benefit of all your study.

@matthewpalm2483 2 года назад

"Now that I'm thinking about it I might make the whole world angry.." The price of serving truth. Thank you Mike.

@dcw56 2 года назад

Yes, sometimes putting truth on the line, hard and firm, it is very difficult for some to take. It is complicated by our current world view now, too. Everyone has an axe to grind, and almost everyone can find an argument in certain places of The Holy Bible. We have to take it to heart: Who Are We Arguing With? Can we make the stars? Can we stop the tides. We are not "all that and a bag of chips"! We were given breath as a gift from God our Father, no matter what we think or how we decide what the plainly written word of God really says. If you read the Bible long enough, you are going to get your feelings hurt, whether woman or man. When we find that place, where we feel like arguing with our Heavenly Father, that is the place we should study harder. HE is never wrong. WE are His creation. We need to keep in mind that we did not hang the stars. They are just there, and what's more is, they are there at the pleasure of God Almighty. God bless you mightily, my brother! Dean

@wiznup 2 года назад

Or maybe scriptures have been interpreted through the biased lens of men? There are two major camps on this, and biblical scholars do not agree. That should tell us something. Also, most of the men doing the pontificating on women in ministry are coming at it through the lens of marriage which is actually the correct context. But!There are also single women in the church and many are staying away because of the entrenched patriarchy in the church. They are more free to use their gifts and talents outside the church than they are within. Shameful! Their head is also Jesus Christ, not a husband.

@dcw56 2 года назад

@@wiznup This seems to be a sore spot for you, sister. Jesus is the husband of all the church. We need to get that out in the open. After that, we recognize women leaders in the Church, such as Phoebe, Tabatha (Dorcus), Ruth, DEBRA, Ester, and many others. Why not include them in your opinions? Did they escape you, or are you keying in on the obvious intonation that "God" is "Father", a male figure? Jesus was a male. Moses was a male. King David was a male. Oh, wait... Mary (Jesus mom) was a female. Mary of Magdelene was female. Junius was female. Elizabeth was female, and so on. Don't get hung up on this, my sister. The second human being ever made was female. God is not very concerned with how we use the bathroom or if we wear a dress or jeans.

@KasiJayPeil 2 года назад

I loved that line 🤣

@suzannecarman8357 2 года назад

It’s going to take faith,patience, and focus to wade through this. I’m very grateful for the help. The issue can be so divisive, but I want truth and God to be glorified. Thank you.

@oliviajones3317 2 года назад

Mike, thank you so much for tackling this. As a woman, I feel the need for a thoughtful, careful, and comprehensive teaching of this issue. Thank you for being willing to take on the work and push-back to provide the biblical clarity that is severely lacking. Blessings on you and your ministry.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@nikkowood4476 2 года назад

You said "Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you fell short" He has released only 2 of the 10 videos, if you think he "fell short" when he literally hasnt even touched on 80% of his views, it is obviously because you have your mind made up already.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@nikkowood4476 If a glaring translation error isn't resolved before producing even one video about this subject - including this introductory one, it will remain an elephant in the room and undermine anything he ever produces on the subject. The truth is, that when this mistranslation is corrected, the controversy almost instantly ceases, those 2 verses stop contradicting other portions of the bible, and the division ends.

@simonchoi7141 2 года назад

Honestly, the whole idea of what you want to believe really spoke to me on a personal level. Even after just the first 20 minutes of this video, it was quite profound to the point where I felt a little bit called out. Thank You. Also, I appreciate how you emphasize this topic's secondary nature, as it makes everything seem a bit more comfortable at least for me. So often Christian debate gets caught up in things that are not vital to the faith itself, so this distinction is so helpful.

@annabenson4359 Год назад

Thank you SO MUCH for undertaking this profoundly difficult topic!! I so appreciate your commitment to honoring Scripture and your willingness to do the hard work of studying up on this topic and then sharing it with God’s people. Keep up the great work!! I’m stoked to listen to this whole series 🤩🤩

@crjaekel 2 года назад

"I want the Bible to breath..." great line. That speaks!!!

@kingdomallegiancepodcast 2 года назад

That was such a great line! I agree 🔥

@LindsayJackel 2 года назад

Hey! Another Jackel/Jaekel! Hi. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. My Jäckel (Jaeckel) ancestors (Erdmann, and his son Herman), came from Germany (East Prussia, now part of Poland) in the 1840s, to the Barossa Valley, and the town, Tanunda, in the state of South Australia. After his wife, Johanna, died, in the early 1850s, Erdmann moved to Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, with his children, Herman and Louise (pronounced Louisa). He remarried and they had a daughter. Both daughters married Germans. Herman married an English woman, Phoebe Allen, and they had 5 sons and 3 daughters (one died at age 5yo). All the best.

@LindsayJackel 2 года назад

When I was 22yo I legally changed my surname spelling to "Jaekel" by deed poll. My father wasn't happy! But people did pronounce it correctly: 'jay-kell' and not 'jackal'. 2-3 years later I really got into family history and genealogy and decided to change the spelling back to "Jackel", given that was one of the family lines I was researching.

@Romans8-9 2 года назад

The Bible doesnt need to "breathe"

@crjaekel 2 года назад

I think you missed the point. Let the scripture speak is solid.

@charleswolfe8764 2 года назад

As to the question of WHY so much of the Church doesn't reason biblically about this issue, I'm reminded of a quote from Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it."

@Michael_the_Servant 2 года назад

The fact that Upton Sinclair is being quoted to make an argument on something about the Bible is ironic. It is better just to quote 1 Timothy 6:10 and leave Sinclair’s works to unbelievers.

@charleswolfe8764 2 года назад

@@Michael_the_Servant I'm not making the argument. Mr. Winger made the argument. I just said I was reminded this truism

@Michael_the_Servant 2 года назад

Charles Wolfe, I wouldn’t include Sinclair with Truth.

@ipanesm 2 года назад

@@Michael_the_Servant are you implying that anythink that Sinclair ever said cannot be truthful or used as an argument? shouldnt factual things or ideas be independent of its creator?

@Michael_the_Servant 2 года назад

Ignacio P., let what is factual be factual, but Upton Sinclair’s works are ripe with lies. “The Jungle” actually lead to a federal investigation and report that refuted so many of the claims he wrote as facts. His works are merely fiction propaganda to support the agenda of his beliefs. So, you have bad beliefs, lack of morals, and false writings. Why would you ever reference him or his works?

@vip2zip 9 месяцев назад

Mike, I love, love, love this series! One of your other videos, can't recall which one, showed up in my recommended a couple months ago, and after watching a few others, I subscribed. I absolutely love your deep dives! I love that you honor scripture above all, and are seeking to "rightly divide it"--even if that entails having to change your views. You apologize often for how lengthy some of your videos are, but I for one appreciate them! Any serious student of the bible would. You do a superb job showing both sides in this particular series and again, I appreciate that. Be encouraged brother! We need leaders like you who are not afraid of the culture, who are willing to teach the true word of God in humility, which I think you do, but with courage and boldness. I will be praying for you, your ministry, and your family! Sorry for such a long comment.

@HillbillyBlack 7 месяцев назад

the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

@courtneyb166 Год назад

Thank you so much for investing your time and energy into this series! I am looking forwards to seeing the rest!

@phlaxus5288 2 года назад

Mike, besides all the biblical knowledge you share, what im learning from you all the time, is the love you put in to teach these biblical truths. You are doing a great job! Praise the Lord!

@hlokomani 2 года назад

Really encouraging to have someone teach biblical truth from a genuine place of love and grace

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@DeutscherGospel 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 Not true. If you take whole biblical teaching into account, it's clear that even if there is an translation error, it's not possible to get to your assumptions. Please contact the channel owner. Maybe he will do a video answering you points.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@DeutscherGospel What "assumptions" are you referring to?

@suzum.9713 3 месяца назад

Agree.

@brendawilson3390 2 года назад

I’ve been listening to you since about mid January when I discovered you on a friend’s fb post. I began this year by reading through the Word, using a one year study plan. I have been a believer for 27 years, but you are the first person I’ve ever known to actually teach me HOW to study and think biblically. Thank you so much for allowing Father to use you to help me gain the “how to”! I am already seeing the fruits of your guidance. I’ve heard you announce several times that you were working on this series, and I am so thankful you have! Especially after listening to your series, “How To Find Jesus In the OT”, and several other podcasts...I am SO excited to be going through this series with you! Looking forward to gaining wisdom and insight on this much needed subject.

@mandyrawlinson7687 10 месяцев назад

WOW!! I am so very grateful you have taken this on and I am excited to watch the complete series! Thank you!

@biblestudy2197 Год назад

Excited about this series, thank you for investing the time into studying the topic and sharing with us!

@howard4linda 2 года назад

Hi Mike, Howard's wife Linda here, thank you so much for doing all the hard work on this issue. I was a child of the sixties, raised by a single mum, raging feminist, anti marriage. Then at 26 was saved and my world view was challeged, just a bit!! It is only in the last few years, as the rage has stilled, that confidence in the perfect design and peace which is gifted by our Father that I can look at this issue from a biblical perspective. Marrying was one such issue, now, finding my role as part of the body of Christ is the next. Thanks again!

@ryanhoward8694 2 года назад

Sadly, there can be harsh divisions even within degrees of complementarianism. I minister with a church that has taken a soft complementarian view (basically, women can do anything but be the preaching/senior minister or an elder), and we have been shunned by all the other churches from our denomination in the area who take very strict complementarian views on this issue. We would love to associate with them, but they don’t want anything to do with us. It’s heartbreaking to see people divide over secondary doctrinal issues. I appreciate your honesty and your heart. I, too, wanted so badly for years to hold an egalitarian view, but I simply couldn’t get around what Scripture says on the issue. I’m looking forward eagerly to the rest of this series!

@ccrow3355 2 года назад

I dont understand why he calls it a secondary issue when he quoted a bunch of people that were coming to conclusions like the bible is in error and that Jesus wasnt the authority while he was on earth. This is not a secondary issue, its a corruption within Christianity that destroys peoples faith.

@ryanhoward8694 2 года назад

@@ccrow3355 What some people hold on other issues has nothing to do with this particular issue. That’s a form of “guilt by association” fallacy. There are people with whom I have disagreements on primary issues that I can still affirm are correct on secondary issues. For example, I can agree with Apostate Prophet regarding his critiques of Islam even though he is an atheist.

@tabletmaster291 2 года назад

@@ccrow3355 so what do you call these people like Ryan Howard? Im curious

@jrconway3 2 года назад

@@ccrow3355 Primary issues are about salvation. If your theology on salvation is wrong your basis is completely wrong and you're not a Christian. People can make secondary issues into primary issues but Mike is countering this idea and saying these aren't primary issues and you shouldn't divide so heavily over them, but people tend to do it anyway.

@ccrow3355 2 года назад

@@tabletmaster291 I dont call him anything. I just think that this is much more serious than people are making it out to be. It is literally destroying churches and peoples faith. This is the way alot of fake Christians infiltrate churches and spread heresy.

@Joytheia Год назад

I love your faithfulness to scripture and desire to keep away from all the emotional and cultural filters we so easily place on ourselves. I very much enjoy all your videos and look forward to exploring this series.

@snana9665 Год назад

Thank you so much for teaching on this. Finally! I think I have found a teaching on this subject that doesn’t just feel like reasons & excuses, but actually will discuss the Word of God. ❤

@danielduerkop472 2 года назад

Thanks so much Mike. I’ve been struggling with this topic for over a year now and I’m looking forward to hearing an understandable Biblical response.

@pixelarrowproductions6308 2 года назад

Me too brother. Particularly as a man myself I feel like I'm treading around a minefield whenever I try to confront this issue. I tried to dig into this and found so many different and confusing scholarly conclusions, and knowing the social consequences for going in one direction or the other, I decided just to not try to cross the minefield at all. I'm really glad someone I trust has tackled this issue so carefully and I'm hoping to come out the other side of this with a better understanding.

@logansales7000 2 года назад

Me too man. Ive just accepted a position in a denomination that refers to itself as “fully egalitarian” and is “ashamed it took them so long to do so” in like 1997. Wrestled heavily with this. Went back and forth so long. Not settled totally. I want to be egalitarian, but I want to be Biblical and settled in my position (but not unwilling to wrestle with it ever again as necessary).

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@logansales7000 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 Mike is going to address a lion's share of what you said here. Not to say I agree or disagree, but he has not even gotten there yet. This is a 10 video series and this is merely introductory and cursive. I am interested to see how he will handle this issue.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@logansales7000 The mistranslated verses I cited are the very backbone of those who argue against women in ministry and leadership roles and if he didn't mention the error in this first video, you can be certain it won't be mentioned in the other 9 - especially since he states up front that he's leaning towards the complementarian view. You can be sure he's completely unaware of the problem with those verses - once the mistranslation is corrected, you don't need 10 videos to deal with this topic.

@carolgibson1241 2 года назад

Thank you for taking this topic on! I am a 72-year-old woman who is quite happy being a woman and submitting to God-given authority, I can hardly wait to hear the rest. God bless you Mike!

@greenlimabean 2 года назад

There is a time and place for woman to lead. It isn't a whole congregation at church.

@Gaibreel 2 года назад

@@greenlimabean why? What makes a man more valuable than women when it comes to their word?

@davidbell2547 Год назад

I like that you said God given authority. A very important distinction

@twistedpixel2558 Год назад

@@Gaibreel Not any more or less valuable. God expects every Christian to spread God's good word and to be a light in this dark world. God has an established order about life. If you aren't willing to submit to God's will, you can't be saved. Period.

@greenlimabean Год назад

@@Gaibreel it's not that men are more valuable. We are equally valuable with men. Im a woman btw. It's that putting a woman in front of the congregation leads to the low parts of men in the congregation coming to the forefront. Sexual fantasies. That, and we women have too much self confidence, self worth, to fall for gender wars in the church.

@Noontseeoh 7 месяцев назад

I love that you had the guts to take the time and to go through the effort of bringing this project forward... I really need this and can't wait to learn! Thank you!

@danielchilton6881 2 года назад

I just started watching these apologetics vids and they are wayyy better than I thought they'd be. That catch at the beginning where you said "she's trying to make the idea intolerable from the outset so that you can only side with her" is a core tenant of post structuralism, I think laid out by either Gramsci or Marcuse. So for you to articulate the method exactly as it's been prescribed is really impressive.

@thejohnsonshomeschooljohns7815 2 года назад

I'm sorry your channel took a hit for a while, and I am so excited to hear your research with an open mind and share it with friends who are also seeking biblical truth on this topic. I just wanted to add that the greatest example of submission and how submission does not make an individual less-than is our own Savior! He did not count equality as a thing to be grasped but submitted Hinself to the Father and because of these actions the Father has given him authority and a name above all! Thank you again for your dedicated time and please extend those thanks to your wife, friends and colleagues who supported and guided you as you studied.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@suzannegriffiths4795 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 I am interested in what you are saying, also because, when I asked God if I should be wearing a headcovering, He indicated no, saying "I don't see you as married". I was surprised, for several reasons; 1)I hadn't even imagined that the verse was directed to wives only 2)I have been married before 3)I have not entertained the idea of remarriage because of God command to women about marriage ending when the spouse dies. My question is, what is your understanding on why God would see Eves transgression as being connected to her marriage? I have been thinking of implications; perhaps her act forced Adam to consider deliberately sinning versus dividing from his wife. Perhaps they were supposed to always agree BEFORE making a decision, and Eve didn't? Maybe Adam hadn't considered ever disagreeing with Eve. Then this would make sense; that unity can only be achieved between fallen mankind if the wife now submits since both are so individualistic and self-serving. Which leads to another implication; if husband and wife learn to agape love each other, the unity could exist without the wife being the one who must submit on every occasion. Also the every occasion would be in question because the decision to submit must be "as unto the Lord" (Eph 5:22), Not as though their husband IS Lord. That is, if he asks her to sin, she is not beholden to obey. Examples here would include Abigail and Nabal, and Sapphira and Ananias. Another question would be, why an unbelieving husband would be persuaded to become a disciple due to the submission of his wife.

@timffoster 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 so.... unmarried women can speak in a church, but married women are to be silent last they bring shame, and are to ask their husbands at home? 1. What is the purpose of this spousal subjugation? 2. How does that make any sense in any culture? 3. What does that have to do with "the Law" (1 Cor 14:34)

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@timffoster 1st, the Head of an unmarried woman is Christ alone and she has no restraints regarding public ministry other than good social conduct that everyone normally submits to. If she marries, then her husband takes over headship - that's something she must consider before signing on. She's agreeing to a subordinate role although according to Eph5:21 there's actually mutual submission involved - the husband is called to be a servant-leader not a dictatorial taskmaster. It's similar to Christ's exhortation to His disciples in Mt20:25 - “The rulers of the Gentiles have power and lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many." Eph5 says husbands should have the same attitude of self-sacrifice for their wives as Christ did in dying for the church (His bride), ie, they should be servant leaders - in short, submission isn't a one way street but spouses actually submit one to another. 2nd, the admonition in 1Cor14 is simply that wives should not openly question their husbands opinions or doctrinal stances in the church but to resolve their differences at home - to challenge their own husbands in such a way would indeed be a disgrace and a violation of the marriage bond. There's nothing wrong with a wife speaking out in church if they're both in full agreement about what's going to be shared - that's where the head covering for wives mentioned in 1Cor11:5-6 comes into play - it's a sign she's not merely speaking on her own authority but that the husband is in full agreement.

@CynHicks 2 года назад

A head of household abusing their family isn't an issue attributed to scripture interpretation; it's just evil.

@bellyfulochelly4222 2 года назад

Yes, amen. Sadly, many churches have distorted the idea of male leadership so much that their teaching enables and encourages that kind of abuse. I'm a staunch complementarian, but I've seen this situation play out first-hand.

@Madewithouthands 2 года назад

Especially poignant comment with the whole John MacAurthur/David Gray scandal that just broke.

@randallassiter1616 Год назад

Maybe try reading the Bible before commenting. The Bible tells men to honor their wives and lay down their lives for them. Doing otherwise, such as abusing the wife and family, is obviously a sin bc it is doing the opposite of what the Bible says.

@michaelgilroy1096 Год назад

Yes it is. It is prohibited. Please Spend less time egotistically emoting and more time studying the scripture..

@daniboo0762 Год назад

@@michaelgilroy1096 I think you’ve misread the comment. I believe this person means that other people (people who likely haven’t read the Bible) say that husbands abusing their wives and treating them like property is because the Bible says men are the head and women are to be submissive however we (yourself and the original commenter included) who actually read the Bible can agree that abuse of the wife and children by the husband is contrary to what scripture says because of the command for the husband to love the wife as Christ loved the church and other scripture guidelines for how a husband should treat his wife and manage his household.

@britneygriffin6704 Год назад

Thank you so much for this series. I am a woman who was raised in church, but secondary rules and roles were never really discussed or treated with importance. I am at a place now in my life where I am strengthening my faith and trying to read the Bible as it is and follow what it says fully. As a wife, a mother of young girls, and a child of God who is building a better relationship with Him, I am in love with this series. I think it can give me some insights to some questions I have for my life and my roles. Thank you so much for doing this and for not worrying about what people will say, but for doing it biblically. Women who love God and want to follow Him need this kind of truth and honesty.

@littlepoolefam3 Год назад

I have only watched a little under 4 minutes of this video so far, and though I don't know where you stand on the issue or where this video series will go, you have already scored big with me because of you heart and approach to this topic. You basically said that no matter what side of this we are on, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ, and that is huge. Thank you for such a refreshing opening statement. I must go to bed while my insomnia seems to be at bay, but I will come back to this tomorrow, or today rather, and dive into this and perhaps the other parts of the series. I will leave you with this, however, and that is we cannot afford to become as divided as our political leaders and parties have in this country. Otherwise, we will never be able to function as the body of Christ, that Christ Himself intended. There are way too many Christians on both sides of this matter acting as though believing one way or another on this issue can lead to destruction. God bless and keep you, brother!

@geewcee5763 2 года назад

I'm so happy that you're doing this in depth study! Years ago I asked my pastor about this who has egalitarian views and he didn't really know how to answer. Then I asked the women in ministry leader and she couldn't answer either. That's when I realized that it was a topic where people kinda just went along with what was going on in their church without necessarily doing the work to back it up in scripture. In my studies I became more and more aware of differences in roles and it changed my view on the topic. Thank you! I look forward to the following episodes.

@saraihernandez8798 2 года назад

I love that I came across this video , I was just asking my dad about this and he was giving me alot of good scriptures, I'm so happy you are going to go into depth, and I ask for prayers so that I may be doing God's will and not mine

@Joyps1611 2 года назад

I’m willing to pay the price of entry! ❤️ thank you for the work you have done on this study and sharing it with others. I have enjoyed the first video and how you present the information. Looking forward to continuing on in the series.

@ashjade86 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for doing this, Mike. Finally getting into this series. I’ve been wanting to for a while.

@daviddufty9759 2 года назад

Hey Mike, Thanks so much for the video. I am an egalitarian who used to be a complementarian. My experience of this debate thus far has largely been one of feeling isolated. When I was a complementarian - people told me that I REALLY believed what I believed not from my reading of scripture, but because I was a male chauvinist who wanted women to be oppressed. Once my studies led me to become egalitarian (it looks like you are going to be covering the same passages and arguments - so I'm all ears for what you have to say), I found that complementarians told me that I REALLY just wanted to bow to the world and I was twisting scripture to do so. I've heard many egalitarians ride off complementarian men as bullies who abuse their wives. I've heard complementarians ride off egalitarian men as wimps who take no responsibility and are door mats for their wives. I was not looking forward to this series as I was worried you would ride off the other side with same strawman arguments as has been done before (particularly on youtube and the internet). I may have come to different conclusions to you (thus far - I reserve the right to be wrong and to change my mind), but I agree with what you said in this video - it was a breath of fresh air on this debate.

@jordandthornburg 2 года назад

Any one telling you that your complementarían views are because you want to oppress women is spiritually bullying you and is likely not a real follower of Jesus, just to be honest. The other view, I don’t judge motives I just honestly don’t get it. I’ll hear the best arguments out though in due time,

@j-arthur6657 2 года назад

If women are to be silent in the church and never to exercise authority over a man, then how could one possibly be a pastor and lead a church ??? Lol do you not see the contradiction? God's word says they are to be silent and not have authority, so how could one who is to be silent and never have authority possibly lead a whole church ? Haha END OF DEBATE .

@usptatexaspro9032 2 года назад

@@j-arthur6657 context. When it says women are to be silent in the church it is in a gentilic context. Women were interrupting services by asking questions during the sermon - something common in pagan circles where there was a conversation between congregants and the oracle. Basically, Paul is saying, if you have a question, ask it at home or after the service. Also, the word for "authority" in the Greek, particularly in it usage in the Greco-Roman world, on top of the entire clause suggests "abuse of authority" not any authority whatsoever. Go deeper than just the English translation. Remember, the English translation is an interpretation of Scripture. A translation team actually sat down and tried their best to put a descriptive and large language like Greek into a bland and small language like English. Often times the thought in the translation becomes lost. Knowing the biblical languages is essential. So don't start knocking egalitarians, they have an excellent argument.

@jonsealartist 2 года назад

@@j-arthur6657 Man… I’m a complimentarian and you’re either embarrassing us or not really a Christian and intentionally trying to sow discord among believers.

@usptatexaspro9032 2 года назад

@@j-arthur6657 you clearly never read my comment, just what you wanted to try and prove your point. You're insulting to others on this thread. We're trying to have a civil and Christlike convo and you're just bashing everyone and laughing. I'm done here. This isn't edifying. It's people like you who are the reason the church can't have deep conversations. It's just all insults. As a someone who claims Christ you need to heavily look into your own heart before you start criticizing other believers who you basically ignored and didn't even bother to read in their entirety. Basic historical context tells you what is happening here, but you just want to ignore that for the sake of your own argument without even taking notice of it it.

@macgyverswissarmykni 2 года назад

Mike, this discussion comes at a great time for me; I've been wrestling with the egalitarian question for a while, and it's been hard to find objective, biblically consistent, and culturally sensitive (both in contemporary as well as biblical contexts) discourse on the matter. Thank you for taking the time to understand and present this matter.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

I recently posted this to Mike and considering your interest in the topic, you might be interested and it might resolve some of your questions: Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you'll fall short if you don't first address a major problem at the start of this series. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting wives to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, all the contradictions between those verses and other portions of the bible are instantly resolved and all that remains is to properly exegete a few tangential verses along with others that have been twisted and/or misinterpreted to prop up this faulty doctrine which subjugates and silences half the members of the Body of Christ and causes tremendous damage to the church and many innocent people who are simply trying to obey God's call on their lives.

@EmmaGrav Год назад

Thank you so much for this video, Mike. I have fluctuated between the two positions currently on the complementarian side, but this video is such a good reminder to reflect and cast aside our preconceptions and beliefs and focus on the Bible and submit to what it says. Very thought provoking and I look forward to watching the rest of the series!

@amyburrows6412 Год назад

Thank you for this! I am really struggling through this topic right now! I am eager to continue watching the rest of the series. I’m grateful for the objectivity of the series, the in depth look at both sides, thank you for doing the deep research for me :)

@bellsage33 2 года назад

I was laughing. I was crying. This podcast had me gather my thoughts and feelings,and placing them aside for biblical truth. I can't wait to listen again. I can't wait to hear the rest. Thank you for taking a deep dive into a very difficult issue. It will be nice to get a biblical view on a very important subject.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

I recently posted this to Mike and you might be interested: Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you fell short, not by any failure on your part, but you were sabotaged. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting women to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, all the contradictions with the rest of the scriptures are instantly resolved and one indication that it's indeed biblically correct is that both sides, complementarians and egalitarians alike, aren't totally happy with the results.

@yimakim 2 года назад

Pastor Winger, I appreciate your heart for understanding and teaching God's Word. Hope there will be more pastors who eagerly desire to be grounded in the truth 🙏

@craiglivsey5572 2 года назад

Pastor Mike, you have done an outstanding job with these videos. Absolutely edifying. God is definitely using you!

@rayres0708 Год назад

Thank you for making these videos. I am looking forward to watching the full series. I am also currently reading Philip Payne’s “Man and Woman One in Christ”. I am a teacher at a private Christian school, and some of my students of a certain denomination have used this issue to undermine my authority in the classroom, so I appreciate your approach that encourages unity.

@itzesmi 2 года назад

God's word doesn't change , humanity does, society has become more and more progressive and it's seeping into the church and try to twist the Bible into fitting into our needs. I agree pastor Mike

@laurenalmeyda6916 2 года назад

Amen and amen...struggling with this currently. There is only obedience or disobedience

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@laurenalmeyda6916 I just posted this to Mike yesterday, and you might be interested : Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you fell short, not by any failure on your part, but you were sabotaged. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting women to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, all the contradictions with the rest of the scriptures are instantly resolved and one indication that it's indeed biblically correct is that both sides, complementarians and egalitarians alike, aren't totally happy with the results.

@omnitroph1501 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 He did months of research. Do you think he wouldn't've run across this during any of that? Checking the Greek is just about the first thing pastors do with any disputed verse.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@omnitroph1501 An introductory video that doesn't include mentioning the translation error regarding the 2 verse which are the very backbone of those who argue against women in ministry and leadership roles indicates it won't be mentioned in his other 9 videos either - especially since he states up front that he's leaning towards the complementarian view. You can be confident he's completely unaware of the translation problem with those verses - and once the mistranslation is corrected, 10 videos aren't required to deal with this topic. When those corrections are made, the contradictions instantly cease and the controversy ends.

@VicRibeiro777 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 "You can be confident he's completely unaware of the translation problem with those verses"... Having followed Mike's channel for a while now, I am confident you are completely giving him too little credit. You are judging the end result without watching the other videos. That seems a bit shortsighted, don't you think? If the issues you brought up is in fact never mentioned then your objections are valid. On the other hand, every time someone adamantly states that our understanding of Scripture is because of a specific mistranslation, there are flags raised for me. 1. Which translations specifically? 2. Does the commenter have the necessary linguistic experience to claim this, or can they point to good scholarly articles where this position or problem is discussed?

@user-fn4gy8fq6x 2 года назад

I’ve been waiting so long for this video/series! Thank you, Pastor Mike!

@kayallen6778 2 года назад

Thank you so much for taking on this subject. I am a female and have been in a few different leadership roles, children ministry, women's ministry, youth ministry and outreach. I have been told that I have a gift of teaching and have wanted to study deeper and share what I find so much about God, with others but have struggled so much with both sides of the debate about women in ministry that I have held back. I have a burning desire to share Gods word, but I don't want to be in disobedience to Him either. Thank you for taking the time and going through with the attitude of 'let scripture be scripture.' so I know I can trust as I go through this study with you. Thank you all the way from Australia 🦘🌏

@ljss6805 Год назад

Kay, be careful: there's a difference between the Bible original texts and what people interested in misogyny mistranslate. Women in the Bible were appointed to every rank a man was: deacon, priest, bishop, apostle, etc. Women being in ordained ministry *is* Biblical. Think about it: Iounnia was an apostle; Phoebe a deaconness; Mary Magdalene a disciple; and we have several women referred to as "priest" in the female form. And now think of this: the first person to teach the letter of Paul to the Romans was the very same woman who delivered the letter to them: the deaconess Phoebe. In antiquity, delivering a letter meant reading and explaining it. So, if you feel called by God to teach, you're in your Biblical rights to do so.

@deliciouscolours Год назад

I don't think we can disregard History including Jewish History in this matter. Miriam was mentioned as a leader to the people of Israel alongside Moses and Aaron, Deborah was a Judge appointed by God as a leader of the Jewish people. everyone went to her to be lead, both men and women. Also whi would God give someone a teaching gift if it was for them to be quiet? It's dangerous to pick and chose which Bible texts we look at to weight in on a matter, we don't know the context of Paul's teachings at the time but we do know that God doesn't have a double mind. If He anointed Deborah he can anoint a woman today too, plus He made a donkey talk! How can we ever doubt that He does as he pleases and uses whomever he wants?

@ljss6805 Год назад

@@dstv1016 Pretty sure you just don't know Greek. That's her name (you might see it in English as June, Junia, or even Jounias, but the proper way to render it is Iounnia). She is named in Romans 16.7

@ljss6805 Год назад

@@dstv1016 I'm a Mexican, but that hardly matters, because I don't need to be an ancient Greek to know Greek. I just needed to study it.

@zerobyte802 Год назад

Bless you, sister. I'm about to watch the rest of this series as well. Starting with the attitude of following God's will is the best foundation. I refused to submit to God out of personal pride but God has humbled me and my life has improved in so many ways. My wife is traditional and I was not living up to my duties as her husband which caused her distress and me dissatisfaction. Now I consider her so much more in everything I do and we're both happier together.

@bettymofokeng3404 Год назад

Pastor Mike I can't thank you enough, I appreciate you digging deep in the Bible and sharing it with us, to help us think Biblically 🙏🙏🙏

@okEPlant 2 года назад

So excited for this series!!! I've been wanting to study this more for myself, because I know what my position is, but I want to be able to defend my stance with THE BIBLE, not just tradition.

@hannahfloyd2723 2 года назад

Pastor Mike, as a woman I have been struggling with understanding these different positions biblically for a while. I am thrilled and very grateful that you have taken the time and effort to explain this biblically. I appreciate your ministry so much. You put so much thought and effort into your videos and are so careful with the interpretations of the scripture, it is a breath of fresh air to see and hear. I pray that God will continue to bless you and your ministry.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@pastortroy777 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 you are NOT a pastor. 1Tim 2 (NKJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹¹ Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. ¹² And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. "God is simply & extremely clear on this" ~You need to repent.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@pastortroy777 You're using circular reasoning. The issue is that I've shown that 1Tim2:11-15 is translated incorrectly- turning around and trying to use the mistranslated verse to prove your point is a fallacious argument. The truth is, the translation error I cited is 100% true and irrefutable - the Greek word "gune" should have been translated as "wife" instead of "woman" and it has no application to me whatsoever since I'm not a married woman.

@baltichammer6162 2 года назад

@@pastortroy777 Research the Artemis cult at Ephesus which the Apostle Paul dealt with for several years. Between 100 and 200 hours of reading/listening plus more hours digging through garbage, you should have a very good idea WHY Paul writes what he did. It all has to do with the feminist superiority Artemis cult at Ephesus. You will then see that every word/sentence Paul writes about women is directly aimed at the crazy radical feminist cult of Artemis. You've heard of the Amazon women? Guess what? They are not merely a myth they existed and the Artemis cult at Ephesus was mostly built on their belief system & culture. Bible really opens up and shines forth the truth when see beyond one dimension with both eyes. Its beyond words and amazing doesn't come close to describing it. Praise be to God, Creator of Heaven & Earth.

@pastortroy777 2 года назад

@@baltichammer6162 Thank you for your comment 🙏. Mercy, peace & love be in abundance to you.

@amandamartin4585 2 года назад

Thank you so much for all the work you have done on this topic. What I really like about your presentation, even the long introduction, is that there is NO WAFFLE and no waste of time. Hopefully I will be able to listen to all 10 videos 🙏

@AmyAndThePup Год назад

You got another subscriber with this one. I've always leaned complementarian, without question, but I've always struggled to understand the other side whose name I don't know how to spell yet. What you described in that book around the 50-55-minute mark, about stories as theology, really struck me as poignant. It reminded me so, so much of today's sensationalist, drama-filled culture, all about our feelings and not about truth. I can't wait for the rest of these videos. Thanks so much!

@pariscapri1594 2 года назад

I’m only 25 minutes in and I can already tell that this series is going to be amazing.

@jasontarmon8505 2 года назад

Great start Mike, this type of in-depth content is exactly why I subscribed to your channel in the first place. The Q&A sessions on Fridays are fine but due to the ad-hoc nature of them are necessarily somewhat shallow. These deep study videos on the other hand, this type of thorough dive into topics is what sets you apart from others. Keep it up!

@nebedward Год назад

Thanks Mike for your in depth hard work and dedication to show forth the truth of Gods Word without prejudice or agenda except to be honest with the text. You are here for such a time as this and so much appreciated. I will remember you in my prayers brother 🙏

@emilyacevedo4746 Год назад

A little late to the party but I’m excited to be here. Thank you so much for striving to point people back to the Bible, especially on tender issues like this.

@ilanabailey9402 2 года назад

Thank you Mike for this blessing! I’ve been looking forward to it since you announced it last year. ♥️♥️♥️

@shawncooper5977 2 года назад

This actually was the most anticipated series for me, Mike Winger,(such a brilliant teacher)brings every topic and nuance explored thoughtfully and Biblically. This is such a blessing! I am grateful for such a well researched, Biblical view and study.

@andrewbradley3305 2 года назад

Go read the epistle of Titus. Paul outlines the requirements for church leaders here

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@Thoska Brah Don't be so sure - an introductory video that doesn't include mentioning the translation error in the 2 verses that form the basis for excluding women from ministry and leadership roles indicates it won't be mentioned in his other 9 videos either - especially since he states up front that he's leaning towards the complementarian view. No, you can be confident he's completely unaware of the translation problem - and once the mistranslation is corrected, 10 videos aren't required to deal with this topic. When those corrections are made, the contradictions instantly cease and the controversy ends.

@abrahamv.2976 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 Hi did mention them. He said he would address them later.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@abrahamv.2976 Where did he mention the translation errors in 1Tim2 and 1Cor14?

@SusieRN Год назад

I’m excited to start this series. Great job on this opening. ❤

@belkysa1241 2 года назад

I am so excited to hear this series. Thank you!

@Nicole-po7mp 2 года назад

Been waiting like what seems forever for this, then missed the live stream!! However, soo happy this is finally out. Thank you Mike!

@elissabellajoy 2 года назад

I've been sooooooo looking forward to this series, Mike, even though I do have a (in my view) Biblical understanding. I want to put my beliefs and convictions to the test again and again to make sure. I pray that thousands will follow through the entire series, especially because the Biblical view of women has been bashed and "dragged thru the mud" for centuries, and even otherwise Christ-loving and Bible-based Christians are strongly affected in a negative sense and are "pushed" into (or allow themselves to be pushed into) egalitarianism, missing out on the beauty of God's order, and more importantly, doubting parts of the Bible. I meet too many in the church (within Bible teaching CC churches too) who are okay with excluding or neglecting certain teachings of the Bible because they seem too harsh. I appreciate your blunt yet meek, sober-minded approach. A breath of fresh air in my world. 🙌🙏📖💦🕊🔥💗

@SheepAmongWolves 2 года назад

Mike, I’ve been waiting to hear this series (wanting to let several episodes come out so I could binge watch it)…finally getting into it and will be sharing it with my community. Great work brother!

@JORELMORALES 5 месяцев назад

Thank you for this. I feel so blessed for finding it. Thank you for the hundreds of hours that you must have put into this prior to recording. It shows. God bless.

@Journey_Around 2 года назад

I have been waiting for this! Thank you for your devotion to the Lord and the time you put into wanting to teach well. I’m looking forward to the rest of the series 👍

@innovati 2 года назад

Thank you so much for taking the time to study this, thank you for sacrificing to bring us clarity on this important issue. Love you brother Mike!

@boobookitty16 10 месяцев назад

I really appreciate how generous you are to both sides of the issue and thank you so much for this in depth look at this topic that is so important for many churches!

@amandachevrier9570 2 года назад

I'm SO excited to hear the rest of the series!

@esterlyn7604 2 года назад

Ironically, I’m complimentarian and my husband is leaning egalitarian. He is not ordained, but is functioning as a youth pastor. This is our most contentious topic as we discuss matters of ministry. I’m looking forward to this study and I hope that it can help my husband and I to have thoughtful, loving discussion on the topic.

@wiznup 2 года назад

You might want to listen to Dr. Michael Heiser's teaching on Women in ministry as well. He's a biblical scholar. It's on RU-vid as well.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

I recently posted this to Mike but so far, he hasn't responded - you might be interested: Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you'll fall short if you don't first address a major problem at the start of this series. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting wives to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, the contradictions between those verses and the rest of the bible are instantly resolved. All that remains is to properly exegete a few tangential verses that have been twisted and/or misinterpreted to prop up this faultly doctrine which subjugates and silences half the members of the Body of Christ and causes tremendous damage to the church and many innocent people who are simply trying to obey God's call on their lives.

@wiznup 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 you are missing something that is very key in understanding what is actually being said in 1 Cor 14:34. There is a reference to the LAW in this passage. Now would Paul EVER make a claim that women should subject themselves to the LAW? Of course not! So it is clear then, that in this passage, Paul is responding to an erroneous position previously presented to him regarding the desire of at least one man (maybe more) to silence the women in their public gatherings. And what is Paul's response? It is one of chastising incredulity. He says, "What! Did the word of God come originally to you? Or was it you only that it reached?" He then continues to explain in vs 37 & 38 that what he was writing was a commandment of the Lord and that this preposterous allegation & plea to Paul to silence women in the church was IGNORANT. So men that continue to subjugate women to the back of the bus in the church are disobeying a commandment of the Lord as posited by the Apostle Paul and have chosen ignorance over understanding.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@wiznup You need to re-read those verses - you have them totally twisted. Paul is addressing an egalitarian church concerning issues surrounding the use/misuse of the Gifts of the Spirit. When Paul refers to the "Law" in vs34, he's merely referencing the OT and by saying "as the Law ALSO says, he's saying that wives taking a submissive role to their husbands also applies in the NT - which he confirms in vs37 with "what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord". The crux of his admonition is that wives should not teach or otherwise take authority over their own husbands - his intention was to keep marriages intact and prevent them from being undermined as in the garden of Eden where Satan successfully tempted Eve to take a leadership role on an issue that wasn't authorized by God. Unfortunately, due to the translation error, this verse is used to subjugate and silence ALL women regardless of marital status, and to place them in a subservient position to EVERY man in the church - which has nothing whatever to do with what Paul (or the Holy Spirit) actually said or intended.

@wiznup 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 we're going to have to agree to disagree. This is not my own teaching but comes from a father in the faith by the name of Kenneth Hagen and my spirit bares witness to what he teaches. And because he was not threatened by women in ministry he mentored and helped to pastor the teaching gift in Billy's Brim.

@danieljbull77 2 года назад

Really appreciate the video and looking forward to the whole series. Thanks for taking the time to study this so comprehensively.

@Linden_alicia 2 года назад

God bless you Mike! Thank you for your time and energy and for letting God use you to bless others! 🤗

@fotbollen2001 7 месяцев назад

This is awesome! So looking forward to watching all of this series! God bless you man!

@ashleyfarasyn 2 года назад

I have been so excited about this series! I feel like Mike really helped me dissect and understand all the verses that were Calvinist/predestination vs. free will that I couldn't reconcile on my own. And like he said about the alcohol topic, when it's all laid out, the Bible is so even keeled about these things and it's us humans that pick a ditch to jump in on one side or the other.

@Mackenzieaye 2 года назад

I HAVE BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THIS AND I AM SO STOKED!!!!!!!! THANK YOU PASTOR MIKE AND MODS!!!! You all ROCK!!

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@dongraybill1764 Год назад

Thank you, Michael, for taking this courageous and biblical stand. I look forward to Fridays.

@AngelPR515 Год назад

This video was such a Blessing to me. I will soon watch/listen to the rest of this series. Thank you Brother Mike! I actually subscribed because of this video. God Bless you Bro

@Eyedkena 2 года назад

Keep killing it, Mike! Looking forward to going through this Bible study series with you!!!

@coltonmoore4572 2 года назад

So pumped for this series. Loved the balanced view you have presented already!!

@heatherjohnson1569 Год назад

This has been a topic that I have been "struggling/wrangling" with this last year. I love apologetics and theology. I love a good healthy discussion about scripture. I also love to teach and show others how scripture intertwines and is a beautiful piece of artwork that only God could create for us. This topic of the place of a woman has never been a topic I paid attention to before, Likely because of our culture. But also because where our culture is now has made me more keenly aware that I could be off on views on this topic. I have been thinking about what is my role in the church. Have I been fulfilling my role? How could I better fulfill my role and set an example to my children? I appreciate that you are doing a series on this topic, because I could use some guidance on this.

@aMayzism 10 месяцев назад

1 Peter 2:9 we are all royal priesthood.

@susanbarackman-artist7670 3 месяца назад

@lauraalbertson7821 Год назад

I am looking forward to this study . As usually, you are making your beliefs solid in the Word of God . You remind me of my Son . Very knowledgeable and very kind in your sharing. Don’t worry about losing people. The Holy Spirit will support You in Your passion to educate the Body of Christ. I hear you . I hear HIM in You ♥️ Laura

@merrygrammarian1591 2 года назад

I literally wept when you listed the questions in the beginning, all the nuanced situations that women might find themselves in that so many people fail to consider. Just to hear a man, and a "soft complementarian" at that, talk about the confusion caused by disagreements in these things was healing in a way. I don't know how many times I was told by one leader in the church to take a leadership role and then told by another that I couldn't do the thing that logically followed. Or given the same position as a male coworker (speaking on a Wednesday night to youth) but having to call it "speaking" and not "teaching or preaching" even though my male counterpart "preached" in the same setting to the same audience. That confusion caused SO much hurt, and I think I embraced a "soft egalitarianism" because it gave me an across-the-board answer. I'm genuinely looking forward to hearing what sounds like a balanced, careful, and Biblically centered view, and I'll try my very best not to let the hurt color my understanding! Thank you, Pastor Mike!

@sallywise2022 2 года назад

I'm sorry you experienced so much hurt. It sounds like the situation you were in was chaotic and you got hurt as a result. Seek God and He will lift you up. God creates order and peace. I hope you find that as you seek Him.

@boopsnootandboogie 2 года назад

I totally understand. This is such a painful subject for some of us. I'm hesitant to watch because any time I get into this topic it feels like ripping off a scab; BUT I do trust Pastor Mike to be fair, balanced, and Biblically minded so I will listen. Also, the "speaker" title always makes me cringe.

@manuelromero2339 2 года назад

I love the way you worded that second to last statement. I hope the same for myself on all subjects. (But without anywhere near the pain on this topic you’ve had to deal with since I am a guy.)

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@manuelromero2339 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 That's interesting, but it sounds like the kind of thing that will probably get brought up in a later video. I'll be interested to see it.

@azwarriorm2617 2 года назад

I am really excited about this series!!! As a woman and as someone who grew up in a church that was founded by a woman then later on her son took over, but after I moved away I saw lots other things in that church that they were “off” about. Blah blah blah thank you for you time and efforts.

@MeanBadger89 2 года назад

I know I'm 2 months late to this lesson. Lol, but I just wanted to say Thank You for this. I have been looking for an indepth study/lecture on this topic. Just because as a woman, I have been confused by this topic. Feeling like I'm being pulled in two directions. I want to be a Egalitarian but feel pulled to be more Contrarian. Thank you so much for this.

@melaniem4070 Год назад

This is THE BEST methodical, Biblical, sound teaching series on this subject. Thank you, Pastor Mike, for the incredible amount of work you put into this.

@HillbillyBlack 7 месяцев назад

the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

@aprilballard4798 2 года назад

Thank you, Mike! I've been very blessed by your ministry and videos. I'm especially looking forward to this series.

@rebeccab719 2 года назад

Thank you SO MUCH for talking about this. I’ve been looking forward to this series since June (or July or whenever you released that tiny clip about women in ministry). I appreciate your thoroughness and your determination to let the Bible dictate your thoughts rather than finding interpretations that you like and sticking with those. I have so much trust and respect for you because of that. (But don’t worry; I know you aren’t infallible, and I won’t just take your word on it. :) )

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@rebeccab719 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 That is interesting, and I'll have to look into that. I can't say whether or not Mike has heard this argument (though I'd guess that he has if it's been recorded in any academic book about the subject), but I do know that he's aware of all the examples you've mentioned because he's spoken about them before, and I'm certain that he's planning on bringing up all the evidence you presented. I'm not completely convinced that a mistranslation solves the issue, however (though I could always be wrong). This indicates that an unmarried woman can speak in church while a married woman cannot, at least without her husband's permission. That doesn't make sense to me. A twenty-year-old single woman is rarely wiser than a fifty-year-old married woman. Why would the younger speak while the older remains silent? And if a woman's ministry must first be approved by her husband, then what about women who are married to unbelievers? (I know that 1 Peter 3 speaks about a wife's behavior to her unbelieving husband, but what happens to her work in the church if the husband doesn't approve?) What if a single woman was a leader in a church, then marries a man who doesn't give her permission to continue leading? What if the husband does give her permission? Wouldn't she then be usurping his authority by being a leader over him in the church? How is the husband supposed to know whether or not it is biblical to give his wife permission to have a leadership position in the first place? There has to be an answer to this biblically, or else the husband would be able to tell his wife what to do and what not to do without submitting himself to God. I'm sure you have answers to these, and I'd love to hear your thoughts if you don't mind.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@rebeccab719 1st, the mistranslated verses I cited are the very backbone of those who argue against women in ministry and leadership roles and if Mike didn't mention the error in this first video, you can be certain it won't be mentioned in the other 9 - especially since he states up front that he's leaning towards the complementarian view. You can be sure he's completely unaware of the problem with those verses - once the mistranslation is corrected, he won't need 10 videos to deal with this topic. 2nd, the only prohibition against married women is to not teach or otherwise take authority over their husbands, including speaking out against their opinions or doctrinal stances in front of the church - any issues between them should be worked out at home. 3rd, age has little to do with the issue, only God's call and particular anointing on someone's life matters - 1Tim4:12 says - "Let no one despise or think less of you because of your youth, but be an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, and in purity" and Acts2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, God declares, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all mankind, and your SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS shall prophesy..." - the younger are obviously used by God to minister to an older generation. 3rd, there's indeed no restrictions on single women, such as myself, regarding any ministry or leadership roles in a church except to deliver God's word accurately and faithfully - if I ever planned to get married any issues about that would need to be resolved beforehand. 4th, if a wife takes a leadership role and the husband doesn't have one, it's understood that her authority doesn't extend over him, the same applies if she has a teaching role and he doesn't - it's understood that she's not using her position to teach him and he has full authority to prevent her from teaching something he doesn't agree with. Lastly, if the husband is unsaved he's not really in the loop regarding any control over what she feels called to do in a church unless she wants to submit for the purpose of placing him in the direct path of God who will then work on his heart. There are many nuances regarding all the various situations that might arise and each would need to be worked out on an individual basis.

@rebeccab719 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 That's fair. I think I see your point. I'm still looking forward to what Mike has to say about the topic, though.

@WithMyOwnEars 2 года назад

100% agree!

@williambutler2177 2 года назад

Stumbled across this video series recently and after listening to this episode I'm really looking forward to hearing what you've got to say over the rest of the series. I was raised very egalitarian in my beliefs, but after what I've been seeing the last few years in my local church, larger denomination, and society at large I'm feeling a bit more skeptical about everything. It will likely take me quite some time to get through your series, but I look forward to hearing things worth thinking about.

@LB-hi6zc Год назад

I really appreciate someone I've come to trust having a deep look into these issues and expounding on them clearly for us to consider

@borisvandruff7532 2 года назад

This is easily my biggest struggle with Scripture right now. Pastor Mike, the fact that you have released this is a true blessing, and I thank the Lord for your ministry.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@borisvandruff7532 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 This is impossible to read without splitting into paragraphs. I’d recommend doing so in the future.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад

@@borisvandruff7532 I just posted this to Mike yesterday, and you might be interested : Mike, I appreciate your efforts to resolve this issue but you fell short, not by any failure on your part, but you were sabotaged. As I'll explain here, the bible actually doesn't exclude women from operating in any Gifts of the Spirit nor from any of the leadership roles listed in Eph4:11 or 1Cor12:28 including apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, or evangelist - this controversy is actually due to a translation error. The main two verses used to subjugate and silence women in the Body of Christ, 1Tim2:11-15 and 1Cor14:33-35, both have flagrant translation errors involving the Greek word 'gune' (pronounced goo-nay) which can mean 1)a woman of any age, 2)a virgin, 3)a widow, 4)a married woman (a wife), or 5)a betrothed woman. The same Greek word is translated "woman" 129 times and "wife" 92 times in the bible and the context of the verse determines the meaning. The context of the 1Tim2 and 1Cor14 verses indicates that "wives" not "women" are being referred to. For instance, vs35 in 1Cor14 says "they should ask their own husbands at home.." and 1Tim1:13 says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman (his wife) who was deceived and fell into transgression." The context is clearly speaking about marriage and wives are being referred to, not women in general - the head of a wife is her husband but the Head of a single woman is Christ alone. Paul's exhortation simply warns that despite their liberty in Christ, wives should be careful not to take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church, NOT that no woman should ever be placed in authority or must remain silent and submissive to all other men in the church - that's a perverted rendering which contradicts Paul's other epistles and the rest of the bible as well. For instance, it's inconsistent with what Paul stated earlier in 1Cor, exhorting women to pray or prophesy with a head covering (ch11 vs 5). And in Rom16:1 Paul commends Phoebe, a deaconess, and exhorts the church in Rome to accept and support her ministry there. It also can't be reconciled with instances in the OT where women had leadership roles such as the prophetess Deborah who was selected by God as both the secular and spiritual leader over Israel (Judges 4&5) and the prophetess Hulda who Josiah, the king, submitted to (2Ki22:14-20, 2Chr34:22-28) and other NT examples such as Philip's 4 prophetess daughters (Acts21:8-9) who ministered in the church at Caesarea. The bottom line is, the only biblical exclusion for women in ministry or leadership roles is regarding wives - Paul's exhortation is for them not to teach or take authority over their own husbands or speak out from under their authority in the church. That's it, if their husbands concur with them taking a leadership role and don't have any issues with what they teach, then they're free to engage in any leadership or ministry that men can assume, and they should only be judged like every other minister - by their character, conduct, and how their teachings line up with God's word. Once the mistranslation is corrected, all the contradictions with the rest of the scriptures are instantly resolved and one indication that it's indeed biblically correct is that both sides, complementarians and egalitarians alike, aren't totally happy with the results.

@calebvelasquez7590 2 года назад

@@JoanDArc77 So good, thanks for ACTUALLY diving into the Word!

@davegink9222 Год назад

@@JoanDArc77 You can stop copying and pasting now.

@Knighty-hr2dw 2 года назад

Thank you so much Mr. Winger for all the time and effort you are putting in too making this series. I’m 14 at the moment, and this year and last year I have been really getting into the bible, and my faith has been growing so much. While faith is amazing, I’ve also been trying to get some head knowledge as well, to back it up, and help grow it. Your videos have been really helpful in guiding me Into making my own biblical opinions. Making biblical opinions is really (at least for me) but what I love about you is how you don’t just tell people what to believe, especially on non-essential issues, you just lay out all the facts and evidence with a little bit of your own well formulated opinion, and encourage people to decide for themselves. ❤️❤️ Thank you once again, God bless you, and fill you up with wisdom, strength, and joy. May he surround you with his presence and guide you in everything you do and say, in Jesus name Amen.

@Imissnormal 2 года назад

Mike Winger is such a great resource and I wish I had known about such a in-depth Biblical teacher like him when I was your age.

@shadowthecat9505 2 года назад

This is a topic I've wanted to learn about for so long! I can't wait to listen to all these (I love to watch your videos and draw its a great time)

@lindajones7471 2 года назад

I appreciate this detailed video series. I hesitated watching this because I was set on my views and had done my own research and thought I knew what I had firmly decided. However, as a Christian woman who desires what God wants more than what I want, I need to be open to what God says. I look forward to the next video. Yes, I want to submit to God! Looking forward to the studying of the word!

@amm613 2 года назад

The way so many things are today can get confusing and sometimes scary. I’m so glad you always point us to scripture. I have been a Christian for a very long time. It’s not until a few years ago that it seems woman pastors are everywhere. I have been wondering biblically was it ok? I will admit I was not comfortable with it probably because I wasn’t sure what the Bible actually said. I appreciate you taking the time to research and passing it to us. Thank you Mike for all you do. We appreciate you. God bless you.

@JoanDArc77 2 года назад