Why We Should Build Better Facilities 

For the people who are interested I made the data of my msup census public: Heartlands Msup Census docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15wS_g3uWNTzvtdiVy5uQX9PxK5wuNoHS10Sn_9HvEik/edit?usp=sharing Ashfields Msup Census docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MUkK6AMD18d7QcCSSyob6pUWVMyE4_Zu50ZTUh9eKuk/edit?usp=sharing Red River Msup Census docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jtpoI8_1qE4jKpcveycZn4r22r8VF12MhyUK1X3yXPU/edit?usp=sharing

Holy hell the production value... Of the video i mean not the facilities... welli guess those too

Amazing video, very high quality. I like how you talked about the whole 5 factories producing all msups for a region. In this game so many resources are wasted in supplies that sit in private stockpiles, never to be used again, and lots of facilities build the same buildings the one next door has. If clans could find a way of working together, the entirety of LOGI would become a lot less tedious, as not as many supplies would have to be made.

At this point anyone that wants to set up a facility they should really be using the foxhole planner online, also if your solo or small scale you only really only need one of each building, you can easily make a facility capable of making battle tanks with a foundation footprint of 3x6 and have atleast 2 small pads (depending number of petrol stations ya want, I like one personally) in order to make it like this ya need to be willing to just use fuel containers for heavy oil for the metalworks which really isn't a problem. bigger groups with players on all the time can defo go bigger but ya always want to make it a quick job (keep big trains in mind for this) with first area being for basic production of c-mats, coal coke, maintance supplies then just next to it in range of your small gauge your ass-mats area then you pads for vics just beyond that. always build within your means and have a clear goal in mind before planning your facility or you just gonna end up endlessly feeding the beast and not really helping the factions effort. last thing people with facility's work hard on them so it your looking to mod a vic ask around before just using someone facility without permission keeps everyone happy.

I think the most helpful thing you can do when creating a facility is to outline what you want to do with it and if you can find someone else or somewhere else that does that better. I've made a few facilities now and each time I've had to reorganize things as I was building it because I realized I could cut down on Msupp costs by sourcing something from somewhere else. I don't build coal refineries anymore because public coal fields will give me free coke, I don't build large assemblers or waste time on having many assembly pads when I don't use them because my regiment already has a facility for upgrading tanks, instead I just focus on producing what isn't being covered by public facilities or my regiment. It just doesn't make much sense to waste your time on upkeep for structures that are already covered by someone else, any time you spend transporting those materials is easily time made back by the substantially lower msupp costs and stress

Great information! As someone who still has not got into a ton of facility stuff this helps a lot!

I've always strived for the smallest possible foundation with as many things as I can cram into it. Experimentation has yielded favorable results, but this method is only good for decreasing the number of foundations one might need, the biggest culprit of msupp consumption. This video did give me some useful tid bits that might save me from the stress next time I do this. I will keep tabs on this channel.

It's like my third day of playing foxhole and all I can say is I was startled by the sheer amount of player built structures sitting on idle unused. And I didn't even know about maintenance costs. Also so many built private, kinda makes me wish for an all public game mode.

One topic I wish was addressed beside msup consumption is LOCATION. It is literally game throwing when people build their facility on top of a necessary strategic choke point, because they didn't want to pipe or run rails from the 'devman bad' resource field to behind defenses. They just plop their facility directly on top of the resource, and then partisan man has fun, QRF man pulls their hair out, and then the enemy frontman walks past it for an easy win. I cannot name the amount of times a bridge was compromised because playerman bad built a useless facility there was already tons of around, instead of a bunker base.

First of all, great video. Although I knew many of the things you explained (because just like you I had to suffer through the little information the game provides to those who want to dive deep) I still managed to learn much. You mentioned possible improvents to the system that could come from devs like the structures actually maintained, but there is one I would love to have which is "allow/disallow this structure to consume msups". This way, you can get rid of those things you don't want anymore in the middle of your facilities and cannot be destroyed even by the original builder (and you don't have enough people to flag it disruptive). Overall, thanks again for making a vid on this.

I almost never do logi but still appreciate the work you do for the Foxhole community! Top tier creator :D

Us at HAULR have been doing an order system to supply groups. They drop off a prearranged amount of comps and they drive off in a BT/BTD/SHT or any other facility vehicle. The small bases nearby making a small train and a single BT served no purpose in comparison and got partisaned constantly. We hope next war we can make this fact known in the region and have solo/small groups cooperate with us so that everyone can get what they want. Might even do a Facility seminar for people to learn

Honestly, Foxhole should pay you for how useful your videos are. Thank you Freerk, I've learned more about how to play this game from you than from any other source (although the Wiki is also very helpful).

This is extremely important and helpful, you literally did an Academic Research to get those data! Thank you again for taking care of these kind of problem, because it seems that everyone is complaining and no one does something. You are really appreciated

Great to see such a well put together video describing the problems in an easy to digest manner. Hopefully people start paying attention and work through facilities in a more organised and efficient manner.

Спасибо тебе большое за проделанную тобой работу!! Такого рода видео очень мало. Для вновь прибывших в игру очень удобно показать твои видео

I think the problem is that the majority of players come to Foxhole for the combat, not realizing that for a hex to be constantly operating at max efficiency there needs to be a large and coordinated network of logi workers, usually 2-3 for every player at the front. The 27th is currently suffering from this issue, as our structure is currently an inverted pyramid. Most of our members are running combat duties while our small but very capable logi division is handling the backend.

I think the only real way to solve this problem is to introduce a new man, and that is 'Moffman'. Just like how the Empire in Star Wars had sector Moffs, there needs to be a person dedicated to making sure clanman and playerman don't do bad. When they ask for a flag for obstructive placement, they need to get it ASAP. Time is wasted waiting for bad facilities to rot, when you need good builds and good defenses NOW. Moffman however, when given all this power, is also expected to supply bases constructed under their direct orders. If their bases rot away, Moffman should lose their position.

Great video! Love the quality and the style. Keep up the good work!

Another great video, thank you for being an invaluable resource for this community 👍

We had issues with tunnels wildly varying Msupp costs, because of the multiplier changing and due to being spread across sub hexes. I would like to see a further expansion on how many Msupps a tunnel will consume in future. A simply prediction would be nice. It was more accurate in the last system and that made it easier to plan ahead.

Oh wow our facility is in this video thats awesome thanks man!

Woo! Love the video. PLEASE keep doing them - and if/when you start recruiting for others to contribute directly (helping build/hammer/deliver resources) Do let us know!

Oh shit he's prefacing the discussion with a glossary like a lawyer predefines terms in a contract; this man means business!

Thx for your Effort

Good way to display one of great ideas to run game efficiently which greatly contributes to wining whole thing. In nutshell you need maximised mining so you use all accessible resources then efficient producers who wont burn it in garrison supplies on 1x1 foundations and el. pole forrests followed by logi which can use large trucks and trains or ships so frontline can conquer something with minimal costs per BB especialy if they dont bleed resources and can recover part of lost equipment Otherwise it might get "unsustainable"

Useful content, more people should watch.

The Puns got me :) Very informative Video. Thanks from a New Player.

Amazing video

Great video!

I drove past the maintenance tunnel testing site multiple times! How did you get the census data for those region costs?

I always built with a mind for maintenance then everyone would ask for more and I would agree if they brought supplies when picking up. But then they never would so I stopped expanding and they get what they get.

since released i played in the first war after 1.0, and then briefly in the 2nd war after 1.0. I was not a fan of how the player base was going about these facilities and i logged in just today and its the same everything.... I find it soooo funny that these clans of 5 people have these huge mega facilities setup, like then they start begging for supplies from randoms to help run it. What should be done is have a big enough clan to keep things going in your clan base. Or just be a pro at ONE thing. Run a gsup factory, run a fuel factory, run a store pile for pipes or something. Everyone wants to have 100% of the supply chain run through THEIR base. Not saying to have the whole war run through one gsup factory, but like you also need 1000 of them :D This video was great, 10/10!

This is a very useful video, even for new logi players. And based on my own experiences with Foxhole, I agree with your assessments. Aloha 😊🤙🏼👏🏼

The videos are appreciated

Please link this video to your other facility building videos as a caveat before starting to build.

Video doesn't mention several critical issues with supply system: 1. Massive amount of tedium: 50k salvage every hour is an insane amount of salvage, it's port sausage levels of throughput - just for one region. 2. Lack of collaboration tools: the only way to advertise public msupp facility is to spam region chat 3. Zero automation for salvage - where's my conveyor belts? 4. Self-destructive nature of the system. Current approach incentives to facility owner to grief his neighbors to get better supply rating. All of these fall squarely into dev man bad. Supply system is poorly designed and isn't thought out or tested. You can't even do something as trivial as load supplies on the small train.

I sub to you just cuz of the title of the video .

If you can stand on a tunnel and use binos to see what is, isn't being supported would be nice. Maybe something with the flag. If flag is flying high above structure then supplied. If flying low then not supplied

this feels like a perun foxhole video. and i feel like you were going for that

As a new player who is slowly grinding through your 18th video list. I have to tell you that this was incredibly insightful. I have yet not built a base. But was thinking about building one near. What seems to be a good area? But I will now hold off

I liked this video but the distributing labor to do centralized and specialized tasks is only a solution if devman helps us with better comms options in game to communicate with one another across time zones. Currently the people who like doing facilities also happen to be the scroopers and the delivery drivers of supplies ive seen so a lot of the complaints I've seen center on fixing the lack of automation around power and production. Your msupp example as a baseline requires people feeding 32k scrap every 2 hours to ensure there is 14.5k roughly for one hour worth of msupp production per msupp factory. It doesnt sound like a lot but then add in the delivering of the msupps to their destination now something may fall off and not run fully. This becomes the real issue right now because there's just too much "busy work" without truly respecting the player time. Like id love it if devman made it easier for us to collab on something like dividing up facility work between many locations to reduce number of buildings to reduce msupp usage but right now we simply lack tools like permanent world markers or some kind of permanent messaging system that lets us communicate cross time zone. Plus the demolition system is bullshit for trying to make adjustments. But I digress otherwise really liked how you broke the problems down!

I designed facilities that can produce almost everything with only 80 structure (20 foundation) for my small regi. Even multiplier go "very poor" we still manage to live for 33 day at war. We let it decay because we don't know what to play next beside RSC and battle train lol

as someone who was obsessed with factorio, facilities was always going to be the same game to me, I just didn't like how on release the facilities were highly unoptimized for small group play which kept me glued to an upgrade facility that while actively kept that section of the front operational in terms of the most modern variants of any tech constantly, I could not leave it for more than 8 hours using the most optimized build strats I had at the time. maybe I should go see if these new supply modifiers and mechanics have optimized that...

Imho you left a huge issue out with "Factionman bad", although it could also fit into every role in some way too: People not cooperating. Maintenance could be way lower for everyone, if not every player, every clan and their grandmothers would insist on building their own facility that can do everything. The only group that does this well at the very least on some level is MSA, sharing work across different timezones. The same should be done for facilities. A group of clans from different timezones, that cooperatively build and uses one facility, is way more efficient (also regarding MSupp usage) than if everyone of the clans builds their own facility, that stands still 50+x% of the time of a day because no one of their clan is on and the facility is squadlocked, so no one can alt it... but also no one can use it. And sorry, but some solo players, that insist on building their own facility, should get their heads out of their "where the sun never shines"-holes and should come to their senses: As a soloman, except for very simple facilities (e.g. a public MSupp Production) they're not supposed to build facilities on their own, that is the biggest waste. Foxhole is a group focused game, you do everything way more effectively and efficiently in a group than alone. I can understand, that they also want to use this feature, but for the good of all they then should join a clan and enjoy the feature as part of the clan. And it also fits into "devman bad" because of they would improve their hamster-run server farms more, the system could be less restricting and punishing. What also is a huge problem in a way and source of frustration: There are people who see the big picture, e.g. when too many facilities are built in a subhex you can't really build and maintain a bunker effectively due to Very Poor Modifiers... but you can't do anything against it, atleast not within the TOS. So people resignate, burn out and leave the game. PS: And yeah devman also bad for not giving the tools to adequately deal with alts or to cooperate. Why are there not permanent map posts for facilities to signal what you build, to see on a first glance that maybe there are already too many facilities of a certain type? PPS: We also use external tools to organize and plan, the Facility Planner and, since recently, Trello, to organize tasks and maintenance.

For the last suggestion, I'd prefer the sentence "X structures consumed Y supplies in the last hour."

Subregion sizes are the biggest problem in my opinion. Let's take cannonsmoke for example. That subregion it's possible and has been before (war 99 I think) to have 3 oil fields in that single subregion. Where places with lots of tiny regions have a much better time with msub costs. Stuff like that just makes the region cost insane.

Hi my name is Leech ingame and im only 2Lt, thanks for the vote of confidence

at very poor: the msup consumption increases exponentially with amount of structures built. Very poor seems to have no limit to msup consumption per structure. Seen as high as 6.5 per structure per hour and also heard of people having 12 msups per structure per hour. You want to build as tight and as little as possible.

My biggest problem for doing first time logi stuff.. I started to build near map corner.. so I didn't know if I come close the decay cannot be stopped.. so I have no space really and had to use every space I find.. :S.

Make Facilities Great Again.

9:30 900 x 40mm shells every hour. This is how much salvage the Msupps are eating. Every hour.

I have long since learned that I should just help supply other people who build things, not do it myself.

Players need to build the M-SUPP system first, with oil fields and will call them vending machines, producing your scrap feeds, which can simply be moved and done by a truck or small train set, only moving a few feet, be nice to see a resource layout for your base, which would add a visual planning aid, where to put maintenance tunnels, etc... a better projection of an area, a lot of cases most machines are not being used constantly and wastefully, most things are built for player conveniences. Especially when a buddy has specialized in it already, and even his facility is not running at a decent capacity, as everyone has their own convivence facility.

13:55 Ahem, mister. As a warden END player I'd love to give you, collies, a little of this sweet information about how we broke even this system. As a part of glorious warden engineers ☕️ We've constructed a "Utopia" among our fellow warden facility workers, by building every single huge plant in one sub-region, and putting the "Pills", as we call them, in regions nearby with Good and Very Good supply modifiers. Basically, we evaded the Msup taxation this way for END, 3IRD and FM clans 🧐 God bless Callahan and Callahan's passage, as we, wardens shall reunite to fight off the debt we had since 1.0 with out glorious metal machines!!! God bless Callahan 🙏 *WARDEN ENGINEERING IS SUPERIOUR!!!*

some of the "playerman-bad" stuff is really "devman-bad", like the cost of underground pipe cost.

This could literally be classified as confidential intel. You don’t want your enemy being any more powerful than they already are, economically or militarily.

16:31 what was bro doing?😂

Funny thing is that construction often gets blame cause they built the things and just did what they were told. XD

Me seeing the train track wiggle and the unorganized placements is giving me ptsd. If you don't know how to plan logistics! hire a factorio player, A game that is built on efficient logistics!

I have a facility that uses around 25 supps an hour. But still get clans that have super inefficient facilities berating me about the supply modifier. But then if you ask thrm for coke they want to haggle. Its a joke.

clans need to work together off of one or 2 bases per hex, there is no reason to waste so much manpower to run 40 bases making all the same things

God that census thing looks like pain. granted i failed my statistics course sooo...

I would imagine that at least half of all mined salvage is wasted. Most facilities just sit idle after their initial use -> waste. Newbies pick a full load of weapons and gear before running into cannon fire over and over instead of picking up decaying guns and ammo from the ground -> waste. Private hoards that never get used, because people get bored and leave -> waste.

Msups production and distribution should be handled similarly to current oil baron system, and clanmen need to relegate this task to other specialized players. Players need to adapt.

Children earn for the falilities

Lieutenant Logistics is tired...

Using the phrase "build back better" gave me flashbacks of shallow, well-connected politicians promising to reorganize society in their interests. Thanks.

individual players are to blame for needless 1x1 and corner pieces, or just using underground pipes because they look good, and for the underground pipes, very "proud" clanmen that are also massive in size randos and pubbies also dont like to work together to share the load, and lower costs for themselves, while lowering the costs with everyone else, because #clanmanbad and if that fails, #devmanbad ive also seen rando players creating bases with lots of foundations that are completely unused, just because they look good or provide a small movement boost between actual facilities, because they cant be bothered to make a small train, or trade one from another group (who will gladly help them make one) ive even seen people place foundations on the ground just to cover up GATES of all things in short: pubbies/randos are to blame for most of the cost inflation for unecessary structures, because of greed we had a public upgrade facility, but we kept having people from other hexes stealing our supplies that we needed for certain projects, so that they could do their own, without worrying about the costs, they never provided any of the materials, or upkeep, they just took and told everyone to "fuck off" we are at the point where "griefing" to reduce subregion costs, for people who dont want to cooperate is now a necessary evil, and no longer actually "griefing", because in a way, the people who refuse to cooperate, are "griefing" because of greed or spite, especially since the regiments can more effectively use and provide the most amount of supplies for the faction as a whole, sharing them more effectively, and actually increasing the amount of things people can use, while reducing the load on individuals, especially as there are plenty of those who refuse to do anything for themselves, or join such regiments, while instead, being leeches, while wasting the supplies, because they do not understand, and most importantly, care, about the costs incurred by their negligence and self-entitlement its a game, but its not a singleplayer game, every action has a consequence not just for you, but for everyone on your team, and the enemy, whether that means making their lives harder, or easier, which can lead into inadvertent griefing, which gets punished nearly the same as alting in some cases

Noobs, clans, and selfish players are all part of the game, and doesnt matter how many tutorials you make, suboptimal gameplay is inevitably. In other words, who cares games is trash and the devs dont care about making the gameplay less frustating