Ayoo, please don't tell me people treat you like you aren't human. I always have found that alot of children from affairs are treated like the affair was their fault or like they are unfaithful themselves. Is that true for you? I'm sorry if its a rude question
There’s a weird power dynamic at play doing that, like they wanna brand the betrayal and bring the spouse unwittingly into it. It’s deliberate cruelty.
i have a feeling that my name came from someone my dad was cheating on my mom with but my dad always said she was a “past girlfriend” but thats still fucking weird
I think the better question is "why do we think guys who 'love' their wives are automatically good?" Like the bar for being a good husband is SUPER low, so why is doing the bare minimum to be considered a mediocre spouse somehow a trait of bring "good?" Like if a wife did the bare minimum that husbands can get away with we would say she is a shit wife that doesn't deserve her husband.
for male comedians in particular I think its bc of how common "wife bad" jokes are, the bar is very low where just not hating your wife is an improvement over the norm lol
@@BlisaBLisa yeah maybe we shouldn't be doing that either way because it's ignorant and stupid. And maybe don't over analyze the material of comedians as though there's some deep answer as to why they have issues with infidelity, sometimes many years removed from when they wrote/performed that material. Relationships are generally imperfect. Sometimes people cheat, sometimes things don't work out. Doesn't mean we all need to freak out and act like we were personally hurt by yhr infidelity of someone we don't actually know. Parasocial relationships are weird and unhealthy, at least the way people currently approach that concept. Fuck Ned Fulmer. His situation is different. It's less about the actual cheating, and more about the blatant dishonesty to basically everyone around him, and we can see from the aftermath that he doesnt really seem to care. He's an asshole. Someone like Mulaney on the other hand, different situation. Doesn't look great either, but at least there were mitigating factors and he's actually tried to better himself. Let's also be honest about the fact that if you start a relationship with someone in your late teens or early 20s, that relationship WILL end eventually. You'll literally grow apart because you got together when you were basically still kids. Everyone stop being butthurt and let's all act our age and have actual, meaningful conversations about these things, rather than focusing on how "personally hurt" you are by a celeb you'll never know. Stop using these situations as virtue signaling competitions to see who can be the most offended and most affected by the behavior of people who aren't actually in your life. Believe it or not, our personal issues are completely irrelevant to these types of situations.
I think one thing I’ve noticed with wife guys is they always talk about their wives in an idolizing way, at least for a while. I compare this to my dad, who is pretty well off, and who has been happily married to my mom for almost 40 years, and he LOVES her, and has had people try to separate him, but he talks about her like a human. Neither the idolizing or put downs, just…a lovely human he cares for
Aww, your mother’s lucky. Our partner isn't something to be idolized and worshiped because they're a nuanced multifaceted human being just like us with their own flaws, strengths, and weakness!
I was married to one of these “wife guys. He cheated and abused me emotionally. He exploited our relationship to further is public career. He got tattoos (without asking me too) and posted little tidbits about our happy relationship, all the while he isolated himself and did what he wanted. He joined the “family” when it was convenient for him. It destroyed my self esteem, mental health. I feel for all of the women and children used in this way.
Were the tattoos graphic or something? I'm so curious why someone would need to ask their significant other if it's okay to mark their own body. I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm honestly wondering. ETA: Punctuation
@@erinhaury5773 oh I mean he got his wedding ring tattooed and didn’t tell me until afterward. He said he wanted traditional rings but on his own got the tattoo. I wasn’t asked to do it with him. The other tattoo was a weird sacrificial tattoos that I only learned about in the heat of arguments were “got for me, or symbolized our love.” He didn’t communicate to me that he was doing these things “ for me” until they were being helped over my head or evidence to family, friends and strangers of what a horrible person I was to question him about his affairs when he had provided everything for me. Then held it over my head because “ I wasn’t as devoted as he is…”
@@Mothermochi Gotcha. Thats super messed up. When my cousin got married, she tattooed a ring, but so did her husband. That should be a both parties thing for sure.
@@elliotsangestevez By saying nobody deserves to be betrayed, there is something that I would like to add to this, I mean, if that would be all right. So, how about if someone (Man or Woman) due to power, influence or whatever legitimately has you trapped and the only way out is to betray them? Even if that betrayal is sleeping with someone else (In some cultures/instances this can actually get you out of a bad situation). Also, if you're being abused, are trapped by the legal system, etc/etc/etc and you find someone who truly loves you, surely then cheating would be acceptable (Whether it be a woman or a man being abused to a severe enough extent emotionally and/or physically). It is not always so simple as just leaving, because at times in leaving it will actually make things ever worse for one trying to escape for good. Surely, there are at least some situations where betrayal is a better option :)
@@jordanphilipperristhis is stupid. If your current relationship is shit, how will cheating make it better as opposed to leaving? I understand people are in toxic relationships that are hard to leave, but cheating doesn't help. If you're in love with someone else, get out first.
@@s.n.9485 In some cases it is actually a smart thing to do, as I have already explained. When you talk of divorce court then usually the Man gets almost everything taken from him and has to pay his X a monthly sum, then you have child support if there are any kids involved.
The thing with 'wife guys' is that their whole spiel about 'their wife' is actually narcissistic and about how awesome and great it makes THEM look instead of their spouse as a person. It's not appreciation for the other, it's a flex which attracts admiration for themselves.. especially from other women who fawn and praise them over how wonderful man-material they are. It is always done very publicly too, it's performative. I bet that alone with their actual wives, they're nowhere as fantastic and present because no audience is there to show off to.
right. it's always "MY wife". the wife is always spoken of more as a commodity that the husband has some sort of lucky privilege to be able to own, yet it's never mentioned in depth by the husband what parts of his wife's character are so attractive to him any more than how attractive it is to him that he gets exclusivity to her alone, that he's "lucky enough" to "own" somebody like her as a wife. it comes off as more of an ego trip rather than genuine affection and interest in who she is, just all that she currently does for him instead.
This is LEGIT the first video I came across that actually tackled the power dynamics of "wife guys" cheating. Ned Fulmer is the third man I distinctively remember pulling this crap within the circles I follow for the past few years. It feels disappointing when you find stuff out like that and now I will always question men who build their careers on being a good husband etc.
Men actually in love with their wives don’t need to be so performative about it, they just do - they more dudes behave like Ned, the more I think they see the wife as an accessory, a gimmick. Is like how the simple weddings end on successful marriages but the uber weddings sometimes take longer to be paid than the marriage ends up lasting.
@@biazachaI've always though about how weird it is to me that performative displays of affection are generally so tolerated and normalized. How many people make it a public issue how well their relationship is going with clearly staged photos and constantly posting online hugging and kissing? Maybe I'm the weird one, but I would find it incredibly... hard to post genuine relationship moments online. It feels like these people are almost just in a relationship to be in a relationship. "How well the relationship is going" is the end goal. It's very transactional. Unsurprisingly, relationships based on gift-giving are notoriously worse than relationships that aren't, but isn't this a similarly transactional thing? That's why these are so off-putting to me. I understand some people are more verbal with their emotional expression (I find saying the word "love" to be physically repulsive which might be a trauma thing honestly), but it's not just me - it's weird to be so wordy and clearly performative about your relationship. There's a difference between saying something that conveys love and saying "I love them" (which, again isn't always weird).
It's almost as if being obsessive about your partner while dehumanizing her (aka always calling her "my wife" instead of her name) is always unhealthy....
I’m a woman who works in a male industry. 90% of the men refer to their wives as “my wife” instead of her name. For years at a time. To me and to everyone. The ones who do use their wives’ names just have a different energy… Also a lot of them use a high, mocking voice when they quote something their wife said? Weird. Anyways I’m not straight anymore.
I have always seen it as a term of endearment…. Almost like saying “the person I have pledged myself to because we belong together” ig I never saw it as disrespectful. I’m a woman btw
@@asterphy i rhink it really depends on how its used tbh. like saying my wife while talking about something thats kind of mushy gushy sweet is cool but referring to your spouse as my wife during times of anger or frustration can come across as icky for many.
As a woman. Marrying someone who loves and adores me and tells people they love and adore me is you know anyone's dream for marriage. It's kinda terrifying that those actions can really mean nothing and arent security of its self. Puts my trust issues into over drive. In highschool I had a "boyfriend" who didn't want anyone to know about me especially his mom. He told me it was just because she was a very religious Muslim woman. Turns out he was with every other girl he had access to. Makes me look for people who are very happy to tell people about me. But with all this. What can you trust?
I think the "wife guy" thing is kinda like virtue signaling, which I know is a term that gets misused a lot but its when someone acts virtuous but its just a performance to make their public image better and they don't really care about the things they say they believe in. I'm generally kinda wary of people who get into a lot of moral arguments constantly with big reactions to small things, or constantly are aggressive towards others for their moral shortcomings even for minor things. its easier to tell whos genuine and whos not for stuff like, political beliefs and social issues, but I think harder with relationships, because telling people how much you love someone isn't really a red flag on its own its kinda natural to some people
You know... This made me think about how these guys were capitalizing on their wives's labor while also betraying them. Great points made in the video.
This is very valid. Can I say that , in my very biased personal experience, the guys "taken" guys who have tried to hit on me were ALL very about their wives/girlfriends online. It has actually done a lot to mess with my trust, I never want to get married because I have this irrational fear that the kind of men who are interested in me just lie to get what they want when they want it.
My ex (never did anything to me but to his own ex) and my best friend both were like this. They both used to flirt with me while in a relationship. Had to eventually leave them.
My bf almost never posts on social media. I don't either so we're very happy together :P I think you can avoid most guys who cheat by taking very seriously how they treat their loved ones, and also past girlfriends. If there's shit talking or two faced behavior I'd avoid that guy. Also I'd go for a guy who falls for you slowly. My bf took like 10 months to tell me he loves me! A guy who is very passionate and flirty up front, while he could be a great dude, is too risky imo. But this is all just based on what I've experienced so take it with a grain of salt :P
I remember all of my friends saying that my (now ex) husband reminded them of Ned because of what *they* saw. However, when the doors were shut and the curtains were drawn, I got to see the abusive, neglectful, selfish man who walked around pretending to be a 'wife guy'. Of course, I lost all my friends in the divorce because how could anything I say about him possibly be true? He's a 'wife guy'. This news about Ned made me happier than just about anything in the world could. I'm sorry for his wife and his family, but I saw through that bullshit act because I was married to one of these losers. This news *validated* my suffering.
Where parasocial relationships can go sour is when fans think their personal feelings supersede those of the people DIRECTLY affected by bad news. In the most recent Try Guys podcast, Zach talked about how someone (correction:) approached him at a wedding he was a guest at and started chatting about the drama as if he didn’t know what was happening and wasn’t personally handling the consequences of the events. That reminds me of how many years ago, a preteen Bindi Irwin had to put on a happy face and console fans who were weeping and bemoaning the death of her OWN FATHER. Fan entitlement is one hell of a drug
Its because people think that what happens to public figures is no different than a TV show. Public figures are not considered real people. Theyre entertainment.
It’s like my fake feminist ex whose whole identity is “feminist” but behind the scenes he’s a huge misogynist who abuses his gfs (love bombing, devaluing, cheating, gaslighting, lying, discarding, etc) and feels entitled to objectify and dehumanize women. If your whole brand is something that should be a basic human right, you’re overcompensating. Same thing with an ex-friend who always talked about how much he loved his wife and how pretty she was. Dude tried to cheat with me and did cheat with others.
Correct! Many(NOT ALL) of theses progressive male feminists are just purely misogynistic in real life & when time comes,they show their true colors like sexist, misogynistic remarks-jokes-body shaming etc.
Finally, this is a fantastic deep dive into how skewed these men’s perspectives because male socialization rewards them unconditionally. They see their success as a result of their qualities when it’s rarely true, and that gives them a ridiculous amount of entitlement to make these immoral choices. Maybe because these things happen they believe they were meant to happen and thus make no effort to change the circumstances because this is the way things are thus all progress is stunted. It makes sense but god is it depressing.
People need to stop praising men for doing the bare minimum: liking their wives Jesus it’s so ridiculous how a man doing what should be a normal thing (loving their partner) is seen as some groundbreaking romantic act and then y’all get surprised when he turns out to be a jackass
This is actually quite common in relationships. The intensity of the feelings they have for their partner are mistaken as a deep, abiding, unconditional love. Irl, it's some combination of fulfilling a fantasy or dream, the social/political/etc. cred they get from the other person, sexual desire, enhancement of personal image, excitement and fascination at least bordering on obsession.. Stuff like that. But. It's not deep, abiding, unconditional love for their partner. It's not necessarily about them as a person at all. And so that will eventually fade and it isn't retrievable. So, what happens? They meet someone else who DOES fulfill those feelings, the feelings their partner used to give them, and they pursue that instead. Cheating. You know how Adam Levine wanted to name his kid after the girl he was seeing? That legit happened to me with the first guy I slept with when I was around 18. He had broken up with his longtime girlfriend and we started dating, she called a few months into our relationship and said she was pregnant, and it got weird. I was like, I'm uncomfortable with this, you need to be in their lives, this isn't gonna work. He called me after we broke up and said that he told the girl he chose the name: Jade for a girl, Jaden for a boy. She agreed, having no clue where the name came from and said they should put a y in (his name is Jayme) and he flat out refused, because my name has no y in it. It was a girl. Her name is Jade. Neither her mom nor her know about me. I hope they don't find out. He messaged me years later and said, "I should've married you when I had the chance" lol. Dude what?? What chance? I was like 18-19 and you were having a baby lmao there was never a chance! But he was obsessed with the fantasy he had. That's what it was. No normal thought process would allow you to obsess over a girl you dated for a few months over ten years ago. He obviously had this idea that his life would've been amazing had he declared ownership of me, and I would've made life sunshine and rainbows forever. Only one of my exes hasn't done that, and he owed my mom money, so there were mitigating factors to him not reaching out. But the rest have. Partially because I have PTSD and issues that lead me to choose narcissists, but also partly because I have a one and done policy. If we aren't working and I've put years in, and we break up, that's it. No more chances. It's not going to be any different if we did. And I think that immediate slamming of the door screws with them psychologically, and they develop an obsession and fantasy world about what it WOULD HAVE been like. They don't even consider what COULD happen, like idk, maybe the same thing as the first time?? Anyway, my point is, I know this sort of person, and it's because it was never about them being deeply in love with their spouse as a person. It's a whole bunch of weird psychological dysfunctions and fantasy. "The Wife Guy" never existed in the first place.
Oh my goodness, you have completely articulated almost everything I went through in my dating life! I just don't think that numerous chances are worth the effort and if the relationship is dead, it's dead. I have had many insane encounters of men following me home, making fake accounts to be my friend after I've immediately blocked them and them asking family and friends deep and personal questions to 'try to get closer to me again'. It's true, no normal person would allow such obsession to manifest, grow in strength and fester with such intensity like that. I've learned that I know what I want and I will always continue to do what's best for me. People get lost in the sauce of fantasy and it's always in my best interest to see things for what (and who) they truly are. I have amazing friends now that I adore and I enjoy my own company, so this method worked out on my end. I am so sorry about what has happened to you in your past. On my end, it just feels like the ones you loved just dont see you for the beauty you are, but the ideal that's in their heads. Best of luck to you in the future as well! Please don't ever give up on finding what you desire and standing up for that, it's out there. What you're looking for is also trying to find you too. ❤️
@@dreamkitty You're assuming I knew or had met this woman in some capacity and I had some means by which to speak to her in the first place. I don't know why you'd assume that.
@@dreamkitty it would be absolutely devastating and nauseating for that woman to find out. Also not this girl's responsibility whatsoever, she has no connection to that woman, that family. Guess who does? That skeevy asshole who did this in the first place. Why should a completely non-involved woman be responsible for taking accountability in lieu of the man who created the toxic situation in the first place.
I love how no one in this community is taking this analysis as an attack on ALL men. we are very specifically talking about guys who cheat so if you’re mad you cheated.
I grew up watching the Try Guys, like I was in my early teens when they left buzzfeed and now I’m 24 almost 25 and engaged. I completely understand the disappointment and hurt fans feel!
I don't really understand the hurt. He ows us nothing, who he owes are Ariel, his kids and the guys, not us. I do not quite get why it is personal, but I also was not suprises so maybe that's why. I did follow the guys quite closely for a long time too, got a lot of joy from it but am aware, we do not really know the., only the aspects that get perceived as brandsafe. Being likable or having some really good traits does not mean you can not be complicated and messy too, so I do not expect that. His "my wife..." always looked a bit like overcompensation so I took it with a grain of salt, even if I found the one or other thing rather sweet.
@@SingingSealRiana [Longish comment, sorry, read if you want] I guess it could also be a generational thing. I consider myself sort of raised by the internet. I’m not obsessed or anything but I was like 12-13 when I made my social profiles online and have watched many of them for well over a decade now. My teen years were heavily shaped by the things I watched and maybe some opinions, thoughts, and ideas I learned from them. I was different from my family, both due to being one or two generations removed from my parents and siblings, but also because I’m neurologically divergent. Socializing with them and my community was an enormous chore because it almost always ended in fights. I found comfort most days in these online creators and while I understand their personas we get to see are only a piece of who they are as people, it still created a connection many with my background used to cope with our dysfunctional lives. As a child of divorce and a queer person I heavily related to Eugene, I cried watching his video on coming out, and having chronic conditions Zach’s series has given me hope and confidence. I remember watching a video on Ned and Ariel’s wedding as a teen girl thinking “Wow, I hope someday someone looks at me like that!” and obviously I don’t know the real story and details about their relationship and the situation now but it makes all of that feel fake and is really sad to think about. Part of being a content creator, especially a mostly family friend one, is being an implicit role model for many younger people who are trying to learn and navigate the world and often don’t have people in their offline lives who provide that. So, yeah of course fans are just fans, but you can’t be like us and watch these people for years and not feel things when this stuff happens. My heart really goes out to Ariel and the kids. It’s no fun when this shit happens between your parents, I just hope they aren’t old enough to really understand it all and remember everything.
tru, fell in love with a rich guy and the result was him cheating despite holding me to extreme standards and also going to jail for attacking me.... be wary about men with money bc they think the rules dont apply to them...im positive there are good ones out there but this is def a pattern in "powerful" men
I definitely think having wealth from a young age can skew a person's perception of themselves and others. I grew up upper middle class (richer than most kids at my highschool anyways) and I had some weird views about the way the world works that got dismantled real quickly once I had to start living on my own and working a job that pays a bit above minimum wage 😅 I still benefit from my upbringing though, because I was able to take as many music lessons as I wanted, I got to travel growing up, I had tutors when I wasn't doing well in school, etc. Anyways I shouldn't make this about myself- I really hope you're healing after all that crap that happened to you. No one deserves to go through that 🙁 I will say my dad is a very good man, husband and father. But he has this slight belief (I don't even know if he realizes he has it) that is basically "rich people work hard and should be admired". I'm sure that's sometimes true, but I can't imagine him admiring a minimum wage worker's work ethic. And I've known min wage workers who work two jobs to support their families and provide a good life for their kids- that is so much more impressive to me than someone who was born into wealth and then *shockingly* made more wealth.
I am sorry that happened to you. I married someone who became wealthy in our relationship. He abused me also and cheated, all the while telling me I had a good life.
I've been seeing tik toks that have been giving the "well that's what you get for forming a parasocial relationship" towards fans who feel hurt by this and I hate those takes not only because it is a very narrow view on parasocial relationships as they apply to "stan behavior" but because these wife guys who cheat did betray their fans (obviously to a much lesser extent to their partners and families) Like with the try guys situation I'm sure there are a lot of fans out there who may not have any good models for a healthy romantic relationship in their real life so all they had was Ned and Ariel's relationship to be that good model. And I know that many would say that it's not really celebrities' responsibility to be good models to fans, and in many circumstances I agree with that wholeheartedly, but when a dude takes on the wife guy persona so hard that he makes the theme of his solo segment on a live show "Love" well. . .I don't think we can really fault fans for reading the "author's" intent
My first examples of healthy couple relationship was from RU-vid. Also examples of emotionally healthy parents. When John Green talked about how brilliant his wife is and how he's scared of heights I literally didn't know men can talk that way. When Philip DeFranco talked about how he'll never hit his kids I didn't even know that's an option. I 'm sure Ned is like that too for many kids these days too. I don't like family channels or stan RU-vidrs, but even so it was important to me as a kid, it showed me the world can be better.
There's an even bigger social view, that people in general who make their identity "being a good person" tend to do extreme betrayals of morals in their personal life because they think being extra good most of the time justifies extra bad behavior much of the time.
I was approached by an old high school acquaintance only months after the birth of his daughter with his wife. I'd always found him repulsive but I let him rant a bit and then told him to fuck off and take care of his wife and baby. He stated he felt trapped, his wife was controlling and wanted him to do more around the house (but he was in the military so he just COULDNT help no way lol), and his friends didn't like her. It was interesting to get into his psyche for an hour or two. Luckily they divorced a few years later. Everything was her fault (despite him choosing to marry, buy a house, and raise a daughter with her). Obviously, I only got one side but all his reasons were purely selfish and I got the sense he had just followed a script without realizing how unhappy he would be.
I don't mean to tap into peoples minds... but when I hear about situations like this I can't help but feel like guys like this don't love their partners. I can't imagine loving someone, but being so miserable because they merely wanted me to help with chores more?? Like if I loved and cared about the person, and it was clear that I wasn't doing as much house work, I would just like... step up? Because it would matter to me that my spouse was uncomfortable with our living situation. Like out of all problems for a marriage to have that just seems so fucking ridiculous for that to be on your mind amid your breaking point. Holy fuck.
@@marissashuler7199 Totally agree. I think the majority of fights my partner and I have had over the years have involved division of labor and every time he has made a conscious effort to do better and I've done a better job to recognize that his job is more physically demanding than mine so we've found an even split that works. If you can't somehow find this balance as a couple (because nothing will ever be 50/50) then I dont think it will work. I think my acquaintance probably assumed his wife did nothing around the house even though she was likely taking care of the baby alone all day and semi-isolated on base. He cheated on every girlfriend he had back in high school as well so I figured he just thought with his dick all the time and love barely factored into his antics.
Not going to lie, I clicked this expecting another piece of hot drama trash rehashing the same details through their personal lense of bias and misunderstanding (my own fault for continuing to watch them and the algorithm feeding them to me because of that) and was pleasantly surprised to find someone tackling this from not only a new angle but in an extremely thoughtful, intelligent and eloquent way. You’re the first person I’ve watched who’s really dove into it from a social and psychological standpoint.
@@elliotsangestevez True that you have a notable number of husbands who cheat on their wife, but at least 2 times as many wives cheat on their husbands.
My thing with the (often derogatory) discussion of parasocial relationships is how it gets centered on youth, specifically teen girls. It usually feels like a mix between Phone Bad, Book Good and Teen Girls are Crazy/Delusional by ignoring the long history and ongoing research into these types of relationships. Since the dawn of celebrity, this has been a constant in the US. Sports fans rioting when their team loses, singers having underwear thrown on stage, directors/actors being assaulted for their film portrayals are all reoccurring phenomena that stem from this same place. It's not new, but treating it like it is shifts the focus away from the true issues (entitlement, obsession, lack of privacy, vitriolic attacks, etc) and reframes them as inherent to the relationship type. This is not only a slight at the fans, but also does a disservice to the person experiencing it, suggesting they brought it upon themselves by allowing it in the first place.
The majority of parasocial relationships aren't all that problematic, cause uh... People aren't crazy. Most people realize that while we "knows" our favorite celebrities, or at least know the version of them they decide to show the world, said celebrities don't know us, and don't care about us personally. Like 1 random worker in a beehive. Sure you might feel something if 1 bee stands out for some reason, if it's hurt you might get sad, if it acts cute you like it, if it stings you, not so much. But otherwise there are a thousand other identical bees that matter just as much, and just as little.
Thank you! I kept seeing women getting dragged while the guys who are COMMITTED with their partners were getting less hate! Thank you for calling out the power dynamic in these relationships from a famous husband to dating a less famous woman
I think a lot of men famous or not flirt then cheat because suddenly they feel they deserve as many women as they want they see themselves as a so sexually wanted by all women. I watched my ex do this I knew he’d stepped out of our marriage and then suddenly was blatantly flirting like it was his right. I see these guys lately are all just normal looking guys without their fame wouldn’t be able to get half the women that want them ( I won’t even get into the woman’s rationale) it all goes to their head the one on their shoulders and the one between their legs. Being cheated on is soul crushing . It’s hard enough dealing with it privately I can’t even imagine these women caught up in the social fame game having to put on a brave face. And women or men who have affairs with people who they know are committed to someone shouldn’t get a pass.
I think you need to be wary of any person who treats your relationship as a status symbol. If that's how they view your relationship, they are gonna treat you like an object/means of getting power. If they treat you like this, they will probably also treat you as replaceable. They don't care about your human value, just about what you can get them. And if they see that value in others, they will want them. Of course this is different from being someone who loves their partner and gushes about them from time to time. But if your career is literally based around this, that's not a good sign
I’m glad you mentioned Mulaney, I can’t watch his stuff anymore but it looks like he hasn’t really faced any consequences in his career. I saw his wife’s Instagram post recently and I want justice
But why should he face consequences in his career for pretty baseless rumors that he cheated on his wife? Her Instagram posts don't really suggest that she was cheated on, more that she's generally hurting, which is not uncommon when you go through a breakup, especially a divorce.
How many “rags to riches” stories are actually true though or, rather, as common as they are made out to be? If you really look at a lot of these “self-made” artists, entertainers, business people etc., you’ll almost always find some connection to the industry or some financial contribution/support that landed them the opportunity to keep pushing forward
Can I ask why some sort of financial support or financial contribution is such an issue? Isn’t that how the legal world works anymore? Don’t artists need to connect to labels? Isn’t a lot of things in this world businesses, even small companies? I don’t get that complaint. It’s still a Rags to riches if you came from a poor, normal family…
@@Winter0721 nothing is wrong with coming from money or having connections. A guy pretending he came from “nothing,” “the streets,” “poverty,” or whatever, when he does enjoy and continually benefit from a lot of money and friends all over his preferred industry, it’s a lie. They make themselves out to be liars. They steal that spotlight and allege strength from people who DID come from nothing. Example: Eminem literally did come from nothing. His father disappeared and his mother was chaotic and neglectful. He even faced racial discrimination as he worked his way up in the rap industry in an era when rappers were basically only black. Versus: Lana del Rey tries to present herself as trailer park chic, someone who struggled in the chaotic and hypersexual energies present in what people would call “white trash life”. And her only means of success was to have sex with many men and earn exposure and money through her sugar baby relationships with them. Its DEFINITELY a half truth. I believe that she is a sugar baby and has been for years. She did not start from NOTHING. She was born in a family that was doing well in upstate New York. She went to a preparatory school. She has a philosophy degree. And she started getting music contracts right out of college. Those are willllldly different realities. And you’ll even see LDRs fans harass her for claiming she came from the bottom.
@@Winter0721 how many of them actually came from a "poor, normal family"? Adam Lavine is very much the rich privileged kid with Hollywood connections, Jonah Hill even said so they went to high school.
John Mulaney wasn’t really a wife guy. He didn’t even talk about her that much, and most of his standup was about how he was an addict who had fucked up his life before and could fuck it up again. The internet (and more specifically Tumblr) woobified him when they helped make him as popular as he is/was.
Finally someone pointing it out. He told funny anecdotes about his life in his comedy specials, and some involved his long term romantic partner (and their dog), unsurprisingly. A man mentioned loving and respecting his wife and people got a little obsessed.
For some reason Bill Burr's and Nia's funny bickering on his podcast just popped into my head. Bill Burr has gone from bitching about women all the time in his stand up, to slowly, while growing as a person, realizing that many of the things he blamed women for were actually things he felt because of his own securities. There was a moment in his latest stand up special where he described how his own trauma and upbringing affected his behavior in an encounter with his daughter. It was so fucking real and it made me feel emotional. My point is that no relationship is perfect and that someone who is honest about the ups and downs of relationships and life is way more inspiring than someone who pretends like everything is perfect. There is also something sinister about famous people who actively use their family members, especially children, for clout.
If you don’t mind me asking, what was the bit you were talking about? Bill Burr has definitely started to acknowledge his own trauma and insecurities as he has grown as a person
Yes, I’d argue that people can’t really control having parasocial relationships. As a kid you learn by watching and mimicking others, learning what’s right and wrong through rewards and consequences. It’s how many species develop. Some kids are lucky and have wonderful role models in their personal lives to follow and look to for guidance. While others use the media to escape from their home life, looking for a lifeline. Someone who welcomes them with open arms, makes them laugh, and is more emotionally available than those around them. Someone they feel like they can trust. Which is sad, but true. It’s why influencers have so much influence, and why it affects a lot of young people. Having grown up with RU-vid and all its struggles, I used to be devastated when I learned my favorite creators did something wrong. It truly wrecked me, because they were my life line as a teen. It was like learning a friend or family member was caught committing a crime. But now as an adult I have other people in my life that I love and look up to. I have other coping mechanisms and hobbies I put my effort towards, so my worth and sense of community isn’t tied to the internet, and the breaking news of scandals doesn’t hurt anymore. It just feels like news. I guess my point is that mild-level parasocial relationships are inevitable for a lot of people, and there’s no shame in it. Whatever gets people through their tough times, they need to do it. I’d suggest more that Influencers need to understand what they are getting into. I’m sure it starts off as a hobby, just for fun, but once it’s turned into a job they have to look at their content in a different light. And the more followers and influence they have, the more responsibility they have, just like any other public figure. They have to manage their platform and make sure the message they are putting out is one they are willing to stand by. It’s just the reality of this media-centric world we live in right now. Everything could be lost at the drop of a hat, the entertainment industry is notorious for that.
Some people may wonder why Ariel Ned’s wife’s actual name that he hardly ever said (cuz he was dehumanizing her for fans to project themselves into) stays with him. The reason can be seen from her video where she tells the story of how they met. She’s comparing herself to her friend Analise saying her friends prettier. She clearly doesn’t know she can do better than this man. Poor self esteem draws predators like Ned.
I just found you and I have to say this channel is criminally underrated! I could listen to you talk for hours! you have such a calming voice and I love the way you Analyze things!
The thing about true happy relationships, is that the happier a relationship is, the less the people in said relationship need to SAY it's a happy relationship. The same with loving someone, if you truly love them you don't need to constantly say it.
My partner and I say we love each other several times a day and I don't think it's cope. It feels good to say and hear coming from an emotionally stunted place growing up. I get what you mean tho
As much as some of these were surprising and upsetting… Adam Levine was perhaps the LEAST surprising. Hearing that he cheated I was like “didn’t he already do that? no? oh shit”
I have a friend in my friend group who is exactly like these people - he ad nauseum talks about his wife and marriage, also he always talks about jesus. Makes me wonder....
Wife guys cheating on their wives is a good example of how abusive people will work hard to maintain a good public image in order to avoid accountability and even use that to alienate the victim. Not saying that's exactly what these guys are doing but you can see that specific behavior in action through them
20:52 - "Nobody *deserves* to be betrayed." - Absolutely excellent way to round out the video. Thanks for including this whole note, it sat very nicely on top of everything that came before. -- An Appreciative New Subscriber
I work an analyst in measuring social change from a justice lens and I have RU-vid’s running in the background and this popped up - Ive been doing this work for a minute have to say impressed and encouraged in my work by your content and perspectives - the capacity you have to explain these dynamics and systems to an audience is wonderful ❤
Another gem, especially on the discussion of parasocial relationships again. When you mentioned Hank Green’s Tweet, I kind of got annoyed because it’s so bland. Then again it is a Tweet and he’s famous (I believe) to some degree, so it affects him when fans/haters/neutrals want to know more about his personal life. I still disagree with his take (85%), but I appreciate you trying to be nuanced. It’s hard, especially if you have a better take, or completely disagree with the person’s point😭💯
i don't completely disagree with his point. it just depends on the context you apply it to. in this context it feels a bit short-sighted, but still understandable. in other contexts i'd be much more in agreement
I'll admit, I totally thought I was just clicking on another guilty drama video, but you blew me away. This was so refreshingly deep, insightful, and thought-provoking. Immediate follow and very happy to have stumbled across your channel.
I LOVED your intro about how it's just pure luck. I have a lot of pretty great things in life, & when I actually think about it, I didn't actually earn a single one of them, not that I don't work hard but that the circumstances around them are not in my control!
It’s always been known that the closer someone’s relationship teeters towards its collapse, the more they seek validation from outside of said relationship regarding it. Excessive social media posts, referring to oneself as the perfect partner, always making sure youre seen together; slowly you lose the feeling that the other person is your partner, but rather just another mask to upkeep. Thats why it always leads to cheating.
I’ve been pondering why men who proclaim to love their wives end up cheating… then see this video. Very well done! It conquered all the mental thoughts I had and MORE
i think some people feel entitled to many partners. like in their mind they go 'of course i love my wife, that's why i married her and made a family with her' so that's like THE wife, but then they also feel entitled to more and dont really feel guilty about affairs. like they think it's in their nature to have many partners and you should feel special they chose YOU to be the 'official' one
Can I just say, at about 6 minutes in, I realized you really used your time and intellect to make your points and I appreciate that. I think a lot of us speak with of emotion but I really like how you eloquently spoke of our emotion, I can tell you’re a great speaker. I wish you a lot of luck in your life as well, this video was very well done. Thank you for the new insight and perspective , I learned something today that I can take and hopefully sound a bit more at peace if a topic like this comes up. Thats what being human is about so thank you :)
I've been thinking that one thing that might have happened in this newest case is -> Maybe/probably he really was that "wife guy" originally but after building up his whole public persona and brand on being that wife guy for like ~8 years it started messing with his head and he didn't know anymore was that the actual him or was he just performing a role? And also maybe he felt like he was kind of drowning into the role? Kind of like actors that do only certain style roles for too long and then rebel and do the exact opposite - kind of like "there's more to me than just this". When you build up a persona, role and/or brand with huge following/fans - how *do* you back down from it? Do you even know if you want to or not? Also also, then add the conflicting pressures. "Be the good guy! Don't be a p*ssy!" Early midlife identity crisis?
I really liked this perspective. Like it is very interesting how lost famous people seem to get, like nothing they do will make it all come falling down. On the one hand it must be overwhelming to always be in the spotlight and to never mess up, but on the other hand, no one is making these people continue to be famous or to continue to be so accessible to their fans. You can have a fan base and be famous, but still be down to earth and realize you have this position of power due to luck. Keanu Reeves and Alice Cooper use their fame to help others and have never lost sight of what's really important. The world will build you up, but it will tear you down just as easily, especially if you set yourself up for failure. I was shocked and disappointed, but I will still support the remaining 3 try guys. My heart goes out to the families involved at the heart of all of this, especially the children, but at the end of the day, it's none of my business, and I can't really spend a whole lot more time thinking about it.
Thank you seriously for this deep dive into the psychology behind this issue. As someone who does have a wife to love, any time I see these men betraying their marriage there’s this little part in my mind that goes “could that be me?” I don’t see myself doing something like that but I’m not a celebrity. what if I had the opportunity these men have to cheat, would I take it? You’ve legit given me some important things to consider that I will work to never forget. Namely I will Fight to maintain humility. As I become more successful in life it’s easier to see it as a result of my effort. And while my effort is an ingredient to success it’s not the cause of it. I never want to get to a point where I feel I deserve anything. It’s normal to find others attractive. But I should always value the promises we agreed on in marriage to be monogamous. In respect to her and her value as someone equal to me. Because again I’m not superior to anyone else. Especially not my wife. I should also respect anyone who might be attracted to me enough not to lead them on or entertain the attraction. Some of the things I thought about while watching this.
@@automatic5 that would have been impossible since I got married before these events. Not that celebrities didn’t cheat before, but just these ones hadn’t.
I think it's an interesting discussion to have with many different valid viewpoints. In German RU-vid we had this discussion whether people are allowed to care after two incidents that happend. The first one was a very famous couple that made their relationship their whole contentcow and then they broke up very weirdly and it wasn't clear if one party was cheating or whether they broke up. People complained about it being "their relationship why do you care?" but the thing is many people looked up to them and like followed them for their relationship so the general consensus was that when you drag your relationship into public like that you have to expect and tolerate people talking about it. The second one was way more complicated and there almost no voices saying it shouldn't be discussed publicly. The situation was that the biggest commentary youtuber made a video of him crying and admitting to beating up his gf some years ago (she went into public with that but he said she was trying to talk him bad. The gf went back to him after some weeks after the incident and at the point of the video she had a child with him.) They made a follow up video the next day and confirmed everything and said they would go into therapy. Then 2 days later of so he made a new video where he pulled the "it was all a prank" and showed very incompelling evidence. Then some people demanded that it shouldn't be discussed publicly anymore because it was between him and his gf. They broke up a few months after that and like always people regained trust in him and forgot about that he either beat up his gf or used the topic of domestic abuse for clout. I just hate the youtube community sometimes😅😂
I will say a really good way to have healthy (or at least healthier) parasocial relationships is to have strong personal friendships. A lot of the investment we funnel into online figures or even fictional characters is because we lack that in our personal life. It's a need that isn't being filled and we'll try to fill it in whatever way our brain will latch on to. Having healthy interpersonal relationships is hard, but necessary as a human. When that emotional intimacy isn't met in a healthy way we'll develop unhealthy copying mechanisms. I don't know a good way to fix this because friendships are hard and unique but I really hope as a society we start valuing friendships more. I think it would make things better Edited for spelling
This is the first of your videos I have come across. This was so well articulated. You explained something so complicated, convoluted very well. Almost graceful 😂 Comparing the true and unique psychology of a person vs what our societal expectations and projections the way you did was fantastic. Why do we behave the way we do public vs private. Bravo!
how do u not have more subscribers my god this video is incredible. it’s so well structured and you’re not only well spoken but also hilarious. i love this shit.
I love videos about ppl’s psychology. This one is so well explained and very very accurate. This inside gave me a “aaa that makes so much sense” moment. Great job!
No one deserves to be cheated on and that’s awful. But John Mulaney was VERY open about the fact in almost every one of his acts that he’s perceived as one thing (wholesome, good natured, family friendly) and in reality isn’t that way at all. He’s also been incredibly open with his addiction and if he did cheat on his wife (which is still only an allegation) he was deep in the middle of a relapse spiral which he went to rehab for. While not an excuse I don’t think it’s fair to lump him in with people who were 100% sober and far more culpable in their actions. Coming from a family of addicts I have A LOT more sympathy for John. I don’t support him cheating but when you’re spiraling and not in your right mind it’s very different than consciously making a choice to harm the people around them who love them.
@@WafflePancakes1314 point to the part where I said it wasn’t. I stated nothing has been confirmed and I am sympathetic because of his struggle with addiction. Way to advertise your complete lack of ability to read and have empathy for other in complex situations.
I think the comment beneath you could be a video in of itself, why is it that people who are socially progressive have this VERY conservative streak when it comes to personal transgressions? ('No, it's still cheating' reminds me alot of 'No, it's still stealing', when they talk about minority crime rates. Ofc, progressives will rush to their defense and look at the system as a whole, but immediately turn into "this was a personal moral failing that they rationally chose to do" when it comes to cheating, abuse, etc.) Not saying which side I take, but I find it interesting to think about. The little black dot in the ying
I see where you’re coming from to a certain extent and yes, addicts deserve our sympathy, but what he did was 100% wrong. It was definitely cheating - Olivia gave birth six months after he announced that he and his wife were separating - and no matter what he was going through it should have been his wife he turned to, not another woman.
@@HerHollyness announcing a separation doesn’t mean that’s when they separated that’s simply when it was announced but yeah the math isn’t great however they have remained very private about it so there’s nothing but speculation. But again I’m not debating whether cheating is right, it never is like idk how I can make that more clear. I’m saying conflating what happened in John Mulaney’s marriage to Ned “my wife” Fulmer’s marriage is wildly unfair. Also in every case except for Ned’s, the people effected are the people directly involved. Nothing illegal was happening. That’s not true with Ned. Ned fucked over a minimum of 30 people who had nothing to do with him having an affair and could’ve destroyed a multimillion dollar business. People he worked with are getting death threats. They are not the same.
the survivorship bias can break when the person has enough self awareness to see their luck. i used to have survivorship bias and not even gonna sugarcoat, i was a pretty shitty person who refused to give and receive help. that mentality started to break the moment i entered college. where, on the brink of going insane by seeing how despite the same effort and hard work im putting into this class why am i not getting any better, my friends helped me out a great deal and i got better. that's where it all started to get better, i started to realize that it's luck. I'm lucky to have these people with me and to have the chance to receive the great amount of help they give. I start to realize that the reward i received for my work is no longer just me, but other people.
Excellent piece. As Shakespeare might say, “The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.” Arrogance allows people to excuse all kinds of ugly behavior. You don’t earn the right to disrespect and betray other people.
I know this is not the most important part of the video, but the Adam Levine baby name thing isn’t that surprising to me at least because my birth mother named me, her biologically female child, after an ex-boyfriend of her’s. In terms of men being praised for monogamy I think while, yes, part of it is due to societal norms and bs stereotypes, I think it is likely also influenced by the fact that younger people grew up in a world where “I hate my wife” jokes and “men hate marriage” jokes were the norm and expected. In addition to rebellion and counter-culture, there was a large question surrounding monogamy, men, and homosexuality as people in the LGBTQ+ community were (and still are) actively being denied basic rights to marriage and happiness, when straight men didn’t seem to even like their own wives. Similarly, many can relate to growing up with parents unhappily married to one another, so to see cultural icons who not only loved marriage, but were down right infatuated with their partners was a breath of fresh air, and offered a lot of hope to people who didn’t see love very often in their own lives.
Instant follow, you just showed up on my homepage and I’m so happy that you did! I hope you get a much bigger following because you speak so eloquently and it’s really great to listen to your perspective ❤
I've been thinking about this and really appreciate this analysis! There is so much surviorship bias even within different parts of my family that cause things like estrangement and neuroticism
In our society, there's a fundamental difference between powerful/famous men and women. They are different expectations and different reactions to them. I've heard plenty of successful women, on podcasts and the like, complain about the disinterest they get from men. Successful men have it exactly the opposite. Women (even normal women) also have dealt with guys, maybe even hot douche guys, hitting on them when they didn't want it. They have been trained by the cultured how to deal with it. How many guys, especially guys who aren't crazy hot, have ever dealt with female sexual advances? Especially UNWANTED female advances? It happens, sure, but it's rare. All that to say, when a normal looking guy gets famous/successful and is suddenly the recipient of a lot of women's sexual attention... it's not a shock when they end up unfaithful.
"Family men/women" generally are often dismissive of their families unless it benefits them. Children are often the targets of this behaviour. You've also got "relationship people", who go on about how they love their partner while abusing them.
Incredibly reflective video, I didn’t expect this level of philosophy but loved the way you picked it apart! definitely researching survivorship bias a bit further
Wow! Your take on these situations is so insightful and in-depth. It’s the first video of yours that I see and you are already my favourite youtuber BY FAR
I really appreciate that you took the time to add something to the conversation and this wasn't just another reaction video/rehashing of the situation. So glad the algorithm lead me to your channel! Also, the pleasure principle? Someone was paying attention in lit theory lol
@@elliotsangestevez it was my thing as well. All of your videos are very informative and interesting. But this one got me all over the place. But thank you nonetheless for the videos. You are a lovely human 😍
Spitting straight facts. That attitude you talked about where people attribute all their success to effort is a surprisingly common issue. As a musician, people are always trying to assert how much they know, their value and experience. Whether it’s what they can mechanically do, how much theory they know, or how popular they are and how much people like them. The truth is that music is very abstract and anybody making music is lucky enough that there was hundreds of years of experiences and optimization to get here. Even when you feel like “you made it yourself”, you have to understand how lucky you are to have all the people that came before you to make it even possible for you to do that. And if you’re one of these guys in the major leagues of popularity then not only do you have to respect who came before you, you need to respect those around you, because they’re doing most of the real work.
Just started so I'm unsure if you mention this but I always can tell a real wife lover versus a fake by whether or not they use their names or just call them "my wife"
I'm new to your channel, and this is an awesome analysis. I especially was impressed by the psychological angle and your video totally stands out because it's not just a recap of "the evidence," but rather why people are reacting to the situation and what's at stake. Well done 😊
