Grab some G54 merch here - www.en.garage5... Promo code 'garage54' In this video we try something practical. For business inquiries: promotion@garage54.ru
Contact area dosen't change friction in physics laws, but it's extra "spring" too. But oil should handle that. You could meter this, how much it takes when starting it without spark plugs, before extra parts and after it. Then you know how much those make more friction when power is metered in watts. If plugs are in place, then there is pressure adding force activity making change too, so that isn't right way.. This is indeed very very interesting topic so many way. In rally and usage cars.. and testing..
I'm thinking this gives more newton's than hp's prosentually, but I'm not sure. This could drop fast when revs go up few thousand and over, that's normal too. Thanks for the testing.
It won't work on that compression, Diesels need 20:1 compression. Plus you would destroy everything else in that engine. Gas engines are not made to withstand Diesel pressures.
one thing I really like about Vlad's approach is he doesn't try to over-analyze/theorize things. He basically says "OK, this is what we are shooting for. so, let's just put the pieces together and see if it works" very hands-on way of inventing. see what works and what doesn't. then change things around accordingly.
You should take a lada engine and apply all the hackjob performance modifications you've done in the past. For example the extra ring for increased compression, shave the engine block and cylinder for increased compression, 2 extra cylinders to convert it to a 6 cylinder, the diesel high pressure fuel pump and also try to make some new stuff like DIY high lift and long duration camshafts, lightweight pistons and conrods etc
I watched your video for adding a extra piston ring for each piston . It is actually a very good idea for making a engine last much longer and having better compression. There used to be a company called Wisconsin Engines.. that made and sold industrial engines to places all over the world, and a lot of the engines that they built were made with the extra compression ring. Those engines were very well built and lasted a very long time.
An interesting result! I find myself wondering, though, whether the compression comes from the third ring being extra, or from it being new. What would the expected compression be with the standard two rings per cylinder, if all the rings were brand new?
imo I think a good portion of the compression increase is because the 3rd ring is above the original 2 thus reducing the clearance volume of the cylinder
Likely because it's new and cylinder wall are not worn at the top of the sleeves Number of ring really does not matter most high performance dirt bike engine use only 1 compression ring for less friction and more power really important for a one cylinder 250cc or 450cc
@@buttadog5073 I'd thought of that too, but it seems like the volume in question (distance above the second ring times the annular area between piston and cylinder) would be small compared to the volume between piston and head at TDC, at least for a relatively low compression engine such as this one. Just spitballin'; I don't know much about the geometry of a Lada engine....
It would be cool to not just add a 3rd compression ring to a set of high compression pistons and do a compression test, but then shave the head to add even more compression and see what those small single cam Lada engines can really do with some high compression.
@Karl with a K when you disassemble a engine with a “dizzy” and have to pull it from it’s original orientation you have to adjust the ignition timing by rotating the distributor. They also do some insane modifications to engines that they have to not only play with ignition timing they also need to adjust fuel too.
@Karl with a K you forgot to mention the giant hole in the floor where they put their legs thru, peddle power. More holes in the floor with four people equals more power.
When you first mentioned another ring, I was worried that you had forgotten that the previous top ring had already created a step that the new ring might object to. Then you showed that you had recently rebored and honed it, so I quit worrying.
@@lamarzimmermanmennonitefar5269 I was excited to see that video. But, his methods of measuring mpg are sloppy at best. I have spent a lot of time and effort to get 31 mpg out of just 2000cc and 2k lbs, I don't believe his results at all. 1.5g is gone in less than 45 min runtime in my 420cc carbureted snow thrower using the smallest main jet for my altitude, I don't see how the same type and size carburetor would magically become hyper efficient when mated to 4000cc of v8. If he wanted to be honest, he would have fitted a temporary fuel container on the hood for all to see, using a single line returnless system. But he won't do that.
Some old engines came with three compression rings, and some industrial/stationary engines still do. I don't think it would be a wear problem - IF - RPM was kept low.
Also tall deck big block chevy's. May be some info there being as they were mass produced. To add to their strangeness, those engines only used centrifugal (engine speed) advance too; no vacuum advance.
You can always regrind a stock camshaft core with a smaller base circle. It's limited how much you can grind but it's done often and is a cheaper option
Not twin carburetor dual fuel injection (dfi) one injector will spray fuel in the intake valve and the other one will inject fuel direco at high pressure then see the results. The result will be mind blowing
@@ayannasir6653 They already have diesel pump injection on a Lada Direct injection is unreliable for gas engines and a twin or triple or quad carb follows old school hot rodding
@@ayannasir6653 Gasoline engine with diesel injection (not direct but on intake ports) You would be having a hard time trying to convert a regular carb or EFI engine into GDI with not much gains to have
In the antique engines I've had a pleasure to restore I've always noticed older engines with three and sometimes four rings one on the bottom and three on the top made the Piston to where it didn't move around or slap.
They got higher compression merely because they machined piston ring in free space above default ones. This decreased volume in cylinder. Lada has low compression ratio because it is designed to run on crap russian fuel - 73 to 78 octane . Modern, high efficient engines have compression ratios like 13:1 and at the same time piston rings are made thinner - to reduce drag on high rpm region. It would be interesting now to take the middle or bottom ring away and repeat the compression test. Also nothing about what gasoline they did use. Given it is carburator engine, and modern fuel, even in Russia, got better recently, increasing compression is just making old lada motor one step closer to modern engines.
By putting a ring on the top, you basically decreased the volume in the cylinder, that's why you have higher compression. If you want to see the effect only for the ring, this should be put somewhere below the original ones. This experiment is somehow equivalent with rectifying the cylinder head or mounting a thinner cylinder gasket.
Agreed, I was going to mention that same thing! Also if the added ring is brand new it will skew the results since the old two rings are presumably worn to a degree.
I watched this video and did the same thing with a 4g63 NA. It did increase the compression and the engine is very powerful. the down side is the engine is very hot, so I upgraded my radiator from 10mm to 16mm and added an auxiliary fan. I drove the car for about 400km and with a powerful engine, it was able the to increase the fuel efficiency aswell. I definitely would recommend this mod.
Ladas engines really are noisy even when new. Source: my father bought a lada 2111 brand new back in the day. As a kid it sounded different than any car to me, at low revs kinda sounds like it has piston slap and at higher revs it sounds like just another 4 cylinder gasoline engine.
You can do the same thing by drilling holes threw top of piston into the back side of top ringland the compression pushes the ring out for a better deal to cyclinder
lmao when I saw this one😂😂 I love how Vlad and the team actually make it happen. Salute✊ This is my all time favourite channel and just an awesome group of guys. would love to meet one day. appreciate what you guys do👍 All the way from South Africa
Rings are the #1 source of drag in the engine. I'd give away some compression to reduce drag... Also why many race cars burn oil - lower ring tension makes more power
well my concern would be that the piston face could crack because of machining that groove for the new ring and send a chunk of piston into the combustion chamber
Yes, it was designed to be oversized because carburator of Lada, Russian fuel (from 73 to 78 octane... and not really well refined) , flooding in winter (extra space allows fuel to go somewhere instead of being pushed into spark plug) etc. Probably under normal use such engine will die quite quick, this is just fun experiment though.
Interesting thing in regards to piston rings. If you know you're going to abuse the crap out of a motor, like in a demolition derby, you file the rings open a bit so when it starts to overheat and the rings expand, the piston don't seize.
A lot of work to get an extra few minutes from a car your destroying🤔🤷. Why would you fully tear down an engine prior to entering a derby???. Ya can run it on 2 stroke and delete the radiator altogether so it just circulates thru the pipe and run the interior heater on full blast. One smack in the front and all your waters gone with a radiator in there.
My friends have been running dozens of derbies a year for decades, like 4 generations. They drive all over the country to get cars. They typically use the same built up 4 bolt main 4 barrel small block chev for years. Once they go through the engine, it can handle an entire event with no coolant and then do it again next weekend. They also know where to reinforce and where to cut to get the car to fold the way they want. It's actually quite involved, way more involved than I realized
If I remember correctly, Dodge had a problem with their 2006ish era Hemi's they were breaking pistons because the upper ring land was too close to the top. Love these videos and they are always very fun to see👍
Oh Yes!! I saw a lada in South Africa. Johannesburg to be exact. I smiled so much and instantly thought of the Garage 54 team💪 legends...and one tough car I'll tell u that. Russian Engineering 👌
When I was rebuilding John deere diesels they moved the top ring to just about 1/8" from the top compared to 1/2". They claimed higher HP and better starting, they were right! It eliminated the volume of air above the ring, thus increasing compression but also eliminated a large area of cold metal that the air could touch. Starting in about half the time.
It's the same as the old GM 366, 427 tall deck V8 gas commercial engines they where built like a diesel low rpm "4500 max rpm" heavy 3 ring pistons they where just reliable old motors
As the English language G54 videos are usually released months (Or occasionally years) After the Russian ones, I'm now curious if they ever did a follow up video on this? It would have been interesting if they'd dropped the engine in a daily drive and popped it back open to double check everything a year or so later (Assuming nothing went catastrophically wrong with it during this testing phase). I can't work out if the edges of the crown would start breaking off, if the edges would bowl down and trap the top ring, or if the edge of the crown would be SUPPORTED by the extra ring and the engine would still be fine after 12 months use. I can't be the only one who'd be really interested to see a long term test follow up video, can I?
@@henninghoefer Jesus, Well spotted. It didn't click in my head that the bit you mentioned WAS from a security camera (Bloody obvious now I've rewatched it) ! :D Until I actually clicked on the time stamp in your comment I couldn't even have said what footage you were talking about.
I am totally nit surprised. The 366/427 Chevrolet tall block motors use 3 compression rings and an oil control ring. They do it in order to cool the pistons better. Actually the cylinders wear less with the extra ring.
The extra ring being placed at the top of the piston reduces the distance of the (former) top ring, now new top ring, to the cylinder head. This may attribute to increase in compression. You could test for this by making the new top ring grove the same as the former top ring grove, and then using the old rings move the former top ring up to the new top grove, leaving the remaining rings in old positions. Good test, you guys are great.
Seems to me by adding a small amount of 2 smoke oil to the fuel should take care of the cylinder bore wear. Been doing that in my PT for years, and even after almost 21 years, they still look almost new with the crosshatch.
This was very interesting. I can see two things that could be interesting to test and that is to just swap out one piston ring to see what that does for compression. Then try enlarging the groove for the first piston ring and add a second ring in that. I've seen that arrangement on an engine, I think it was a motorcycle engine but can't be sure. That would minimize the problem with weakening the piston, or at least I think it would... Question is if it would be as effective and if there would be some other side effect such as a shorter life span for the piston rings. Finally it might be enlightening to replace the old piston rings on the piston version that works best and hone the cylinders so they can wear in properly and see if that improves the compression even more or if it's as good as it gets. Heck even just swapping in two new piston rings and hone the cylinder may give interesting results as it would show the best possible compression with the standard two piston rings. And now I've read through this and realize just how much work all of this would take. Perhaps just replacing the two original piston rings and honing the cylinders just to see if there is still something to gain there. Not ever having worked on one of these engines I have no idea what the standard compression is supposed to be. If it's close to the original values then swapping the rings and honing the cylinder is not likely to improve things much, right? Edit: Oh and a lot of people ask for dyno testing. If that's not easily done then perhaps just some acceleration tests before and after might give some idea of if the effect changed. Given that this is a rather small engine and car even small changes in engine power should be easy to measure that way.
Wow, nice results, test to drive it long time. Don't just try to kill it. It sounds even better than original. Use something over 90 octane bensin.. or even alcohol.
idea: put 3 gear on crankshaft and camshaft like in a diferential between the 2 cylinder to make two cylinders turn clockwise and the other two cylinders turn counterclockwise, changing the engine balance
This was a really great experiment. But I do have a question, is it because it is a "new" ring or because it is a "third" ring? The real test was to replace the two old rings for new and then test the compression. Then add the third new ring and test again.
It won't be an issue at low RPM. Since some older naturally aspirated engines don't usually fill the entire volume of the combustion chamber, since they rely on the amount of air the piston can "pump" from the outside (the higher the RPM, the higher the chance of achieving volumetric efficency). What you can have here is an increase on bottom end torque due to the higher compresion, but you may suffer a loss of performance at higher engine speeds due to the cylinder volume, timing, etc. I don't believe that the decrease in volume from the extra ring will affect this specific engine. Only a dyno comparison will tell the truth.
This together with skimming the head by like 1.5 mm, change gasket for a metal one that handles higher compression could be interesting too see together with maybe a fuel injection system added in with a higher pressure fuel pump & a more aggressive cam. Kind of test the limits of the stock cylinders, crank etc a bit further.
That would be like using that cylinder to work like a turbo, because the AFM would not get ignited as there is no spark and the compressed mixture will be pushed back into the intake manifold to be supplied to the the other three cylinders in the next cycles. Only worry would be to avoid any blowback reaching/crossing the throttle.. Great idea though!! 👌👍
The problem that the turbo only blows instead the piston is suck and blow. you can control with valve wich would be open only when blow, but then you miss one clycle.
All that work for the extra piston ring!!! ...I have a ton of respect for you guys....thank you for the video and the gentleman is right....there might be more cylinder wear....but it is worth it to try... again thank you..!!!
Another great video from this channel. You made a comment about friction due to the extra ring. Back in the early 80's my race car engine builder used thin cast rings. He said it was for friction loss and HP gain. We won the championship with that engine. There is a youtube channel that does engine dyno pulls and they did a video on thin rings. The result was less than I expected. The dyno runs showed only a 2% HP gain. Here is that video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--29IWc-zrv8.html By the way that Lada looks like my old 1972 Japanese Datsun 510
u didn't change carb jet so slightly bigger jet and be a racing Lada then take to Dino also most racing cars usually get few miles and engine gets rework
Putting lots of miles on an engine I think would harden up the internals from hot and cold cycles and the combustion itself. Not saying it's a new or forged block but I believe they could hold more compression and or boost after miles upon miles put on an engine vs a new engine
I cannot imagine that this would increase compression enough to add much measureable horsepower. If they did this and milled the living shit out of the head to raise compression THAT way, then you'd probably see a reasonable difference. These engines barely made 72 hp stock, so maybe you could see 80 hp with that situation? An extra ring is only going to add a few horsepower on such a low powered engine, and the reduced ring land area is BOUND to break and then destroy a cylinder wall.
@@BITONYBLUE1 the Ringland will fail, which will put a lot of piston parts in contact with the cylinder wall. The ring will also move freely so it will also scratch the cylinder wall.
