Videos from Jak - • Bring Back Spirit • Will Blizzard Fix Heal... Growl (react) - • Has the Healer Role Be... Poddyc (they love to yap about defensives, based) - / @thepoddyc
Holy shock attaches glimmer, a dr, an overheal shield, heals through beacons, the glimmer heals through beacons, our capstone means next 3 uses cast 3 times after using daybreak. So daybreak -> toll -> hs -> hs -> hs is (6*3)+(7*3)+(8*3) glimmer procs in 3 hits. :) Holy shock is completely incapable of doing any meaningful healing on its own with this setup, and it'll be a wet noodle till they look at it.
Incarnation/Berserk is an excellent example of the point on cooldowns being watered down by talents. So many talents to turn it into a "real" feeling CD for some Feral builds is very frustrating. Thanks for the videos as always Theun.
Your analysis on the self-healing issue is really good. To take it a step further and combine it with mitigation, you should look at external healing required per second (EHRPS), and compare raw damage taken, effective damage taken, EHRPS, and raw and effective healing from the healers. I'm looking at Smolderon logs where the 4 healers are externally healing only 40% of the raw damage taken by the raid, because the raid is mitigating 40% of the raw damage, then self-healing 20% of the raw damage. Why do dps only need to be externally healed for 40% of the raw damage they take over the course of an entire fight?
Yeah it’s really bad, I’ve looked at this stuff with friends in discord but I ramble for far too long when I try to talk about it in a video (oops) but I do agree it’s pretty bad atm
As a long time career healer that does CE raiding, this is a great video! I hope they implement these changes. I totally agree that talent interactions are super cool but they shouldn’t amp abilities so high.
I agree, and if they trim the talents they can also cut down on how dmg works. In high keys it’s just one shots and two shots that kill players, so mistakes is lethal. Lethal mistakes is not fun in the long run.
The problem with healing in retail is not anything to do with throughput it is that unless everyone is topped off and uses defensives they are likely to get 1 shot - we need to return to a more classic style of healing like madskillz talks about in his recent video
The problem is that throughput is very high respective to health pools, so it's very hard to design encounters with rot damage high enough to make that throughput relevant while also not making it feel like it's basically a one-shot. Why do healers like fights like Rashok? Because the fight features mechanics that add healing demand without directly having raid damage that one-shots people, via healing absorbs. In order to fix this issue, our health pools need to be tripled from what it is currently, then rot damage also in the ballpark of 3 times the current amount for most encounters, while keeping throughput as is.
In my opinion it all comes down to a balancing for and around M+ big pack pulls every other minute. In turn, this has downstream effects on every other aspect of the game.
It sucks because it's a healer issue that can't be fixed by tuning healers. It's such a wide spread issue, where everyone has 2 or 3 or even 4 super powerful defensives, insane ways to heal themselves up, passive ways to regen it's just no amount of tweaking stamina and healers will ever work. They need to rip the band aid off, prune this defensive power off of everyone and just deal with the backlash that is inevitably going to come. After that, nerfing healing and buffing stam will actually do something. I've healed since vanilla, this season I swapped to DPS for the first time.
I wouldn't want to do raidhealing right now. Almost feels like it's just one healing cd after another on big damage events and if you're not the one using a CD you're pretty much not doing anything or rather don't have anything to do since the CD just carries said event. So you're just relegated to being a mediocre dps with a very bare bones dps rotation with occasional moments of glory.
The defensive and healing creep from dps classes is kind of silly. Tank healing throughput as well. I miss the days when classes/roles had unique game play niches that filled responsibilities for varying types of content. There is just a ton of class homogenization to create some false tense of equality and it took away the flavor/fantasy of playing a specific spec.
Would you say it might actually boil down to the talent system itself? Most points are modifiers for the same ability and/or just passives, like you said. Most of the specs, just autopick whats best depending on the situation or just get everything, like the new Brewmaster. I wonder if a hybrid of current and mop talent system would work better. Class tree= DF talent tree , Spec tree= MoP style. It would reduce ability clutter, make some choices actually meaningful and make tuning easier.
Yeah, I think 30 spec points was far too many so to fill them out they just tossed in a bunch of modifiers to core spells. If they want to keep these trees I think the power of all of these things needs to go down so it becomes far easier to balance not only the spec itself, but the different builds the talent trees have in them
@@theunwow Im just not sure if its possible to nerf some of them, w/o cutting them since they are too binary. Ancestral Reach/Unleash f.e if you take away the extra bounce what is left? Maybe remove it only from 1? Also, if i recall, Hero talents wont stick for Midnight, so imagine what will happen when they (undoubtably) add them as part of the spec tree.
@@ventouzas13for things like that I’d say Ancestral Reach should either increase chain heal healing by 8% OR add one jump, not both. Same thing for flow of the tides, it can do one or the other, not both
The game got so more complex over time to include players (thats strange I Know). I miss the times when Healers were supose to Heal and not to damage, when DPSs were supose to do damage and couldn't heal (they can also heal apparently) and Tanks to tank besides healing and do damage. The pace of the game got so more fast, I really miss healing the chilling damage profile of the old exp...
Holy pally really needs some work. Holy shock is good in 1-2 builds and used in a specific order. Holy pally is fun to play but the healing is so weak. I'm shocked that they haven't tried to work on it. The worst part is healing feels bad and your party takes a shit ton of damage. Mistweaver feels really good because you can maintain healing and if you have to spot heal or pull out high aoe, you can do that immediately. I enjoyed healing for years but dragon flight just feels bad, especially in season 4. Nokhud offensive is the worst as a healer.
I don't necessarily think it's the layering of talents and extras that is the problem. I'd almost even say it's the opposite because it gives them more knobs to turn to balance things. The point of the talents is to give meaningful progression in the RPG aspect of the game but I guess many players forget there is a point in the game where you level up. If I have 10 different talent nodes that buff Chain Heal by 1% I may as well not even have a talent system. The point of the system is those interesting interactions that allow me to choose to take one of my abilities up to a level of relevance from irrelevance, thus changing my playstyle. That is how you wind up with different builds. That is the purpose of Talents. I'd argue they are doing that in a meaningful and good way at the moment. In Season 2 Shaman had a completely viable build focused around Chain Heal and also a completely viable build focused around their Single Target spells. I got single digit world rankings with both in multiple mythic fights so I can assure you they were both viable. They played completely different and it was a lot of fun. If the difference in power between my Chain Heal and my Healing Wave is 10% it just becomes homogenous. My talent choices didn't really change anything, when I see AoE damage I will heal it with Chain heal and when I see Single Target I will use Wave. The interesting part of those two builds was solving problems in two different ways. When you go into a Key and there's Heavy AoE damage but you've opted not to take Chain Heal you now need to come up with a solution to healing that damage in new and unique ability combinations and cooldown plans. When you get to a boss like Rashok or Sark where you need massive bursts of healing in short windows those two different builds have different healing profiles and there's a fun and interesting choice to make based on your strategy and healing composition. Even the Leech talent in the Evoker tree is interesting for Preservation because your Mastery hinges around you being higher HP than your target. So it may just look like 3% Leech to you but that is surely an interesting talent and Evokers in M+ actually don't take it, but they do take it in Raid. Meaning it is an interesting and meaningful choice to Evokers. Your point about Smolderon is invalid really. The intention is not that the Rot damage is the focus of the fight. If they wanted the Rot damage to be the focus I can assure you that they can if they want to. Look at Khaijin the Unyielding in Halls of Infusion. Can you argue you can't feel the Rot damage on that fight? I don't think this video hits the mark. This isn't why Healing is bad. What makes healing bad is when I am unable to fix problems with Healing. AKA, when I can't actually heal. When I watch my DPS die because they just got 1 shot because they didn't press a defensive. That's what makes healing unfun. I think that reducing the overall power of healing is important. I don't think removing ability interactions is how you do that. Blizzard has decided that increasing player HP exponentially is one way to improve the situation and it most likely is a quick and easy band-aid. Increasing player HP is the same as reducing everyone's passive healing and Healer heals. This should mean that if healers and players passive sustain is weaker, incoming damage can be weaker. This means less need for defensives and allows more problems to be solved by Healers. Is increasing just player HP the one and true solution? I don't think so but it does hit a wide swathe of issues at once, which is certainly a bit of a cop-out on Blizzards end. I think things that have all been mentioned by others matter too and should be evaluated. Things like separating Damage and Healing modifiers to keystone level in M+ would be a big one. Doing a pass over class defensives and self-sustain and toning those down so that way players cannot resolve all risky damage on their own and do need to rely on healers more (you briefly touched on this ofc). I think there's more things that can be done to improve the state of healing as a whole, for sure.
I specifically said I want the ability interactions to stay, but that you should t be quadrupling the throughput of a button simply because you’ve selected talents. This makes chain heal something you could literally unbind unless you take the talents for it, that is not a good thing The damage taken from Polar Winds (Khajin ticking damage) is 3x stronger (than smolderon) on a 21, which is the highest key done in the world. On a level 10 it is only 20% stronger than the average tick of Blistering Heat on Smolderon.
@@theunwow The actual number doesn't matter for Rot damage. What I'm saying is the Rot is not the focus of the fight. Every one knows Khaijin does Rot damage because it's the focus of the fight. The designers for Smolderon didn't want you to be focused on the Rot damage, or they simply would have turned the numbers up. They can make you feel it if they want to. They didn't want to. That's not necessarily related to power creep. And is not using an ability because you've chosen to specialize in another a bad thing? I think that just comes down to design again. Clearly the developers and myself disagree with you on that design mechanic. I think it's your opinion and your opinion is as valid as any other certainly. Personally I think it's interesting when Talents and Tier sets focus on parts of the whole kit as it gives more significant gameplay changes and those feel more refreshing. If I had a Tier set focused around my Healing Waves but still needed to Chain Heal AoE damage would I even feel like I have a Tier set equipped? Same thing with talents. I'm just doing the same thing I always do to solve the same problems. It feels too homogenous.
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honestly if healing doesn't look to be in better place by end of beta I will be playing a dps spec. I am not giving blizzard another expansion to ruin my experience. I would love to heal again however blizzard has track record of not understanding how to balance healer role and letting it fall off so much that is becomes either boring or not fun. The community has nailed the problem and we have see no push to correcting any of i the issues outside of increasing HP. Im not going to fall for the lets just nerfing healing and increase hp as enough of a fix. Cooldowns, Self Sustain, Monster Profiles, Healer gearing, Healer Damage and healing profiles, Tanks. This all needs to be touched to restore agency to the healer role. If blizzard doesn't want to touch it then I will be joining masses playing DPS specs. Also trinket change was horrible one and needs either be reverted or iterated on significantly more. Cantrips are fun and removing them from healer role is the wrong move. Make healing impactful enough that a healer should want to wear a healing trinket don't remove our ability to decide if we need healing vs damage. every change is making a Mage look better day by day because we all know that class will never be bad.
Blizz barely pruning everyone's defensives so far in alpha shows their design philosophy for m+/raids isn't really changing lol. Only Monk has had some pruning of defensives in their TWW class tree. making certain healers cooldowns better in 5-man content is a good step but it won't be enough if they are designing content in mind with the fact that every class 3-4+ defensives
My worry is that they're not "nerfing" healing as hard as they should just because of community perception, if they go into the next expansion and put out a message along the lines of "healing is now half as effective and you will have 3x the HP once geared" it's going to overshadow whatever fixes they implement to stop the spiky damage and actually make healing better. It feels strange to complain about being too strong but I have a feeling that's the reason they don't take the kind of drastic measures that the non-casual players are hoping to see.
Too much revers engineering everywhere, it has gone out of hand. Even Tier sets force you to play X style, i'd rather get support bonuses instead (increasing range.. QoL) PS : Farseer RShaman forced to play Unleash Life sucks balls
I agree, and if they trim the talents they can also cut down on how dmg works. In high keys it’s just one shots and two shots that kill players, so mistakes is lethal. Lethal mistakes is not fun in the long run.
