Will Javascript Take Over the World? | Brian Kernighan and Lex Fridman 

zoidberg444 that’s your loss

@@zoidberg444 take a strongly typed language

Let alone making desktop applications for Linux, Windows, and Mac with just JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. It is a powerful language

I started JS 20minutes ago and can't imagine making apps or websites. I need some inspiration.

@@zoidberg444 yikes somebody shat in your cereal apparently. JS haters are so funny lol

It's like a JavaScript version of Rule 34

And will have a github repository about it.

this is the absolute truth of the universe!

best commentary ever!

Well it's Turing complete so that's everything.

this video is very good.

@@robbyz512 how many hours do you sleep?

Shame he considered himself retired at this point.

@@funny-video-RU-vid-channel javascript is not running any web services. It is not the basis of those services, it is the basis of the user's experience to that service.

I love javascript, and I think this needs to be the top comment, plz people make it happen :D

@@BM-qb3oo you sure about that? This page itself has so much javascript that it will boggle your mind

not even remotely worrying imo

@@SahilP2648 Yeah, on the client side you dopehead.

JavaScript is a con

@@dawidvanstraaten your birth was a con

big companies knows the power of open source

Es6

@@enriqueflorendo Typescript

ES11. TypeScript needs some serious improvement if it wants to keep relevant IMHO

JS is the biggest pile of coding crap I’ve seen. It’s take on oop has so much sugar coating on it anyone thinking they’re using real oop is in denial.

slapmyfunkybass said by the haters cause JS slowly taking over everything.

very good

Exactly, this is what js excels at. Decent performance, especially with all the threading it's doing under the hood, and very free in terms of style, which allows you to write decent code fast. (obviously some styles are superior to others, and some are more elegant, but less performant... I'm looking at you functional methods :p) but it definitely takes away a lot of low level control that less abstracted languages provide, which is crucial in certain applications... And dynamic typing while convenient is a double edged sword

Exactly!

Raspberry Pi & Node.js ?

Agree it's a functional programming language.

Really ?

I'm thinking one may build critical stuff in high level language if one tests and tests and tests and gets it right. But supercritical stuff needs to be so perfect that lower level coding is necessary. One still needs lots of testing, but the code is transparent and easier too foolproof.

agent 47 Yes. JS is a pretty legit language despite the hard critique Brian gives it. It does have some security issues but knowing what they are helps a lot. When it comes to installing packages. It sounds like Brian did not use JS much and resorted to installing packages for most of what he did but he does have a valid point. It can certainly be risky.

Petter Nybråten maybe something like that. JS is used in a lot of areas like this but maybe for more life critical code they do resort to something more low level? Idk though....I can’t say I know everything but, to your point, a language does what you tell it to do. If you’re using JS don’t pull in a package for everything 😆

I agree. Tests are key. Most languages can be used for just about anything but sometimes choosing a language based on the task at hand is necessary.

Deno will take time to pick up pace but I really hope it does. Cuz typescript is everything what JavaScript couldn't be..

I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't so relaxed when it came to implicit type coercion, but ES6, optional chaining, and nullish coalescing made me like it more than Java. On the plus side TypeScript is now native to Deno and Bun.

You're already living in it. Hell, you couldn't have written this comment without JS.

@@okie9025 It could, if Js didn't exist. Another language would have been used. A language is a tool that should fit the application and not the other way around

Agree, problem is not the usage of packages and a package manager. The problem is making sure to use a good quality package, and the chance of doing that is a lot higher with something open source on npm with hundreds of contributers and some company backing then an in house package, developed by that one guy that is probably not working at the same company anymore.

correct, i dont think BK is suggesting we code from scratch either but he should've highlighted what you said about eyeballs.

Clean architecture, good quality of code also matters in any library while you have to debug with the library you are using , without documentation and community support

@@metalalive2006 typically third party libraries in js are open source and community maintained so you can see the architecture yourself and its maintained by many others.

That is an illusion we'd all so much want to be true. The ugly truth of open-source is that your assumption of having "millions of eyeballs on it" doesn't necessarily translate to constant quality contributions. Lack of funding, wish of original developers to move on and other factors have proven that you should not blindly rely on community of "others" keeping libraries in a good condition. When everyone is responsible, nobody is responsible. Heartbleed was a great example of that. Thankfully key IT companies and foundations have started numerous projects to change that, to keep people interested and to support important libraries financially. But I am afraid that an npm package that gets stale for one reason or another in the dependency tree might cause havoc on this whole industry.

Like me? Or like the Facebook guys (Hermes Engine and JS contributors)? Or like the Google guys (V8 engine and JS contributors)? Or like the Microsoft guys (TypeScript and JS contributors)? Or the Mozilla guys (SpiderMonkey engine, owners and contributors of the language)? Or the Amazon guys(JS contributors)? Or the TC39 guys (JS committee for updates and contributions)? Just cause you don't like the language doesn't mean it's a child's toy, or non-relevant now that (arguably) better technologies started competing with it

Says the "script kittie".

Im sure the hardened IC's are driven from a web browser.

I would, just not random npm libs

"Nuclear power plant using JavaScript". Thank you very much for this, there will be no sound sleep this week.

The software running that plant would be no more complicated than a modern day backend api lol Node.js could probably run it faster and more efficiently than python

”Cannot read property 'reactorCooling' of undefined” - Mommy, why daddy has no hair and his skin peels off his face when touch I him? - Javascript

Exactly. JavaScript is on its deathbed thanks to WebAssembly.

Yes

Python is second only to JavaScript.

In terms of growth, JavaScript seems to be growing faster.

@@prathamyadav3105 PHP is the king of backend through. w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programming_language/ms/y Javascript growth in the backend has been a disappointment through. I predicted 2 years ago Javascript would surpass Python in the backend and still have not happened.

Absolutely, I don't think they were out to disparage it in any way. Just commenting on it's evolution and it's potentials.

JS cannot be used to make native mobile apps. It has its major drawbacks

@@spidey677 React Native can handle most of what you want to acheive in a mobile app and it doesn't prevent you from writing native Java/Swift if need be.

@@kelbiekelbie909 Ok, re-make me Mortal Kombat 11 on mobile using React Native.

@@spidey677 no

Reliability and performance? WASM? Oh, I have a language just for you. It's called Rust and it is as good as they describe it in love poems on Hackernews. It is like as if Haskell had a baby with c++ and took performance of the latter with safety and abstractive power of the former. I think it is very possible to have languages that have all three: speed, safety, and productivity. But Rust is the first example that manages to get all three. c++ has speed but not safety. Haskell has safety but not speed (even when it fast it has latency due to GC). JS has memory safety, but no good enough type system to guarantee elimination of most bugs, like Haskell or Rust do. Also, performance benefit from safety. Ironically, one can say that c and c++ don't have maximum speed because due to lack of safety it is impossible to write large scale high performance parallel code in them. Projects like Firefox tried it several times and they failed. You need a very good type system that can handle reasoning about memory safety and data races, because it is very hard to plug all holes and reason about all the ways parallel code can run into problems. And fighting bugs in either category can kill a project because they can be incredibly time wasting to debug.

It strikes me that you are commenting on SPAs and client-side javascript, but in my experience, there is nothing more slow on a regular basis than a WordPress website (probably built by a non-coder.) You can't democratize web development and hold it to the highest of standards. I'm not against neither.

@@_smhmd Right

Well that's the thing though. You can very efficiently use memory and computing power if you are coding it in C++ assuming you have all the libraries needed. But C++ is super difficult to code in and one cannot be productive with it. But because of languages at a higher abstraction layer than C++, it has become easier and productive to develop apps in. Depending on the scenario, it will be java, C#, python or javascript. No one apart from the gaming industry uses C++ and it uses specifically because of the need for optimized code in games. So yeah it is a sad reality that a normal app is nowadays 200MB in size and consumes perhaps the same or more RAM, for no apparent reason, while a movie with decent quality starts from 1-2GB. But because of this you are getting sweet animations and features in the app and overall 10000x more productivity in your project.

I'm just getting started with programming, having focused on c++ first. I think the same as you re slow apps, and I'm realizing now how monstrous the coding world is, with all the library utilisation that is modern coding which makes creating easier and optimization harder. At least some apps like Twitter are fast, and I bet we will see significant improvements as companies realize what a difference speed alone makes in the ux.

When people were faced with importing from URLs in Deno, they were shocked to discover that nothing really had changed.

and how is this better than any open source software from any other language/platform? You'll have to always get your software from well-maintained reputable sources.

@かわいいreo It furthered the culture of wariness and tore down a facade, fixing the big node_modules issue in the process and decentralizing module distribution.

@かわいいreo Since it is based in the more modern JavaScript vision and ecosystem most of the useless dependencies are removed from the modules written for Deno. So even though it didnt aimed for it, it improved a lot the module design mentality

You should look into C# and .Net 5. Which I think is the future and Microsoft doing really good lately with VSCode, Typescript and now they own github as well.

​@@redsnflr Javascript only has 1% of market share in the backend and still have a long way to dominate the backend. PHP is currently the king. 2020 Sept 7 backend server-side usage: PHP: 78.9% ASP.net: 9.8% Python: 1.4% Javascript: 1% Currently, Python is JS competitor in the backend. I predicted that JS would surpass Python in the backend 2 years ago and didn't happen. Personally for Backend I would bet on C# .Net 5 which will be released this year and will become huge in the coming years. Now Golang, Rust, Erlang are interesting yet their market share is not even 0.1%. Unless you live near a Tech city or plan to move to one I would not recommend them.

@@abbosshamsiddin Do research on job posts in your area and see what have more job openings, this depends on your area as well what you plan to do, if you want job or start business or be freelancer etc.

yes you are the greatest, now take your pills and shut up, madhouse staff coming soon and taking care of you

You could actually pick up typescript instead since JS infinitely better with it

I have to agree with you. And I thought the comments made about python to be a bit shallow. Python has pip lock files. That's why we have documentation and requirement files. Dependancies and abstraction exist on multiple levels in programming. Great talk nonetheless however he is showing that even an expert veteran in the programming world sometimes doesn't know what he's talking about and relies on his larger then life reputation to make blanket statements. I have a great deal of respect for the man tho. Lex does ask great questions at times.

Really, all JS needs is a standard lib like other C based langs have.

Ya just to make the UI, Rest of the thing is done with C++

@@CortezBumf those are what the built in classes and methods are though. You can get *really* far without using most packages, and if you only use the most prolific packages/frameworks you usually won't go wrong

@@debanjanbarman7212 While you can run your web app's backend with a C++ compiled application, it's not a quick way to solve large problems. Although I'm sure there are plenty of frameworks that defy my statement 😂. It'll sure be fast as fuck though (as long as you don't do something stupid optimization wise)

Compiling it? Lulz

Yeah I think so, JavaScript has its warts but d3 is very good at what it does. I think The Coding Train here on RU-vid has some good tutorials

@@morkmon yeah i think it looks amazing. The only thing im concerned about is the learning curb. While i know that machine learning can be difficult, given that I dont have all the basic mathematical concepts (linear algebra,etc..) down, it seems that one can get by it. With data viz, seems like learning JS and learning how D3 could be a bigger hill to climb.

@@LUISGARCIA-wn4hj Yeah I found d3 hard to learn, the way the library is supposed to be used is very different from regular JavaScript, so the learning curve is real. I've also done some machine learning which is hard in a different way. Lots of trial and error, cleaning data, long iteration loops because you need to train stuff. At least d3 is very direct, because the results are immediately visible on screen. machine learning seems (to me) to have a different learning curve, where the most basic tutorials are very accessible and easy, but getting beyond amateur playing around seems very hard and a lot of results seem very hard to reproduce. wondering if others have had the same experience.

These are two different paths! It really depends on your interests and goals. Ultimately a Machine Learning expert will earn more than a front end developer, although good programmers with strong visualisation abilities are also hard to find. A great tutorial on D3 is this one: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8jvoTV54nXw.html

Wasm is still new/experimental tech with a lot of sharp edges, give it a few years. (programmer)

@@TimBlokdijk1983 OK, thank you for the answer.

Its racist bcos too difficult (nigga)

I would rather say that any project, when it lives long enough and have enough different programmers working on it, tends to get unmaintainable. It's not just dynamic lanugages (although they tend to age faster) but any programming language suffer from this.

@@keffbarn that's exactly why I always emphasize so much on documentation. And that is exactly the reason why Windows hasn't progressed much in over 20 years.